26 Apr 2008

NEWS ROUNDUP FROM PORTUGAL




Hi Folks after last night's moving tributes to Team McCann I thought I would follow up with the last four or five days news reports from Portuguese news Correio de Manha which makes an interesting and informative read. Goncalo and Kate of course feature heavily in those reports.

Viv x


April 26, 2008 - 00:30 am Mystery also in film Maddie: Inspector vai disclose the whole puzzle What really happened the night of May 3, in Praia da Luz, where Madeleine McCann disappeared, one of the passages will be more 'explosive' of the book that the inspector's PJ Gonçalo Amaral is you want to write and, later, transformed into documentary. Know all the details in isolation, in the edition of 'Morning Post' this Saturday.
April 25, 2008 - 00:30 am Research: Data explosives reported by the inspector Gonçalo Amaral Green unveils Maddie case The inspector of the Judicial Police, Gonçalo Amaral, who coordinated the team that investigated the disappearance of Madeleine, already has title for the book on the case: 'Truth of the Lie. " In that CMapurou, the book is almost completed and contains elements explosives on research to the disappearance of children English in Paia da Luz, Algarve, disappeared on May 3 last year. In addition to important data on what happened in the fateful night in the Ocean Club, will show 'the various manoeuvres of counter-information "surrounding the case more media in recent years. 'No vai be somewhat speculative but factual, with reports of someone who lived the case to one hundred percent ", said the CM Paulo Santos, lawyer for the defence of the Judiciary Police still inspector (PJ), which is currently in the process of pre-retirement. The defender of Gonçalo Amaral, seconded only to defend its image after the controversy surrounding his departure from the coordination of Maddie case, confirmed the CM that there is already a publisher interested in publishing the book. 'Untying PJ and the lifting of the secrecy of Justice on the process still ongoing at the Ministry of Public Portimão are currently making the publication of the book', stressed the legal representative of Gonçalo Amaral. The book tries to put an end to the case Maddie. AMIGA OF JUDICIAL ATACA MCCANN One of the friends who have spent holidays with the couple McCann in Praia da Luz yesterday broke the silence and, in an interview with BBC radio, attacked the 'shameful' conduct of the Judicial Police in investigating the disappearance of little Madeleine. In the interview broadcast yesterday, Rachel Oldfield, who with her husband, Matthew, joined the group that jantou with Kate and Gerry on the night of the disappearance of Maddie, accused the PJ to be part: 'They left out information and rumors that have circulated in last year. We have the laws of secrecy, on which told us that we could be jailed for two years if the violássemos'.
April 24, 2008 - 00:30 am Reform: He wrote to the director of national PJ Mágoa in the output of Amaral It is with feelings of regret that Goncalo Amaral, the former coordinator of investigaçãodo disappearance of Madeleine, and also
the case Jeanne, vai abandon the Judicial Police, after 25 years of career and retire. The request for retirement, which counts more than 38 years of service to the state (started working for the Army at 14, and there she won years of subsidy), was asked just over a month. But the CM knows that the decision was taken shortly after the removal of the post of coordinator of the Department of Criminal Investigation of Portimão, in early October. Gonçalo Amaral was replaced by Paulo Rebelo. The move has never been well digested. At that time, Gonçalo Amaral, who completed 48 years, began to think in another way. The CM knows that Gonçalo Amaral conveyed its dissatisfaction to the director of national PJ, Alípio Ribeiro, a few days, since the application for retirement was accepted by the National Directorate of PJ and the Caixa Geral de Aposentações. "He does not come out happy with the treatment he gave in recent years. The institution does not defended in many situations, especially in the last two cases in which was involved, which destroyed its image, "the source confided to BC PJ. The future of Gonçalo Amaral can now go through a place of leadership attached to Justice or the private security. The CM knows that received an invitation to lead a team of security of a private enterprise, but has not yet decided whether vai accept or not. Officially, the PJ does not confirm nor deny the retirement of the coordinator. "Only it is that you can answer. It is a personal matter, "said the director of the CM PJ of Faro, Guilhermino Incarnation. Amaral came on holiday to March 5 and returned to service only one or two days during the month of April because, legally, could not be more than 22 days of vacation. Already should not return to service in PJ. "I do not know if the leaves Gonçalo sad or happy. If you want to keep a few more years or not. He is in life is to think of it. I would do the same, "believes Carlos Anjos, president of the Association of Staff of the Criminal Investigation PJ. The manager says that it is "more of the dozens of elements of PJ you want to leave this year because it meets the conditions for retirement." PROFILE Gonçalo Amaral is 48 years. Married for the second time, the former coordinator of PJ of Portimão has three daughters. The youngest is four years - the same age of Madeleine McCann - and the oldest 23, the first fruit of marriage. He left the course of Engineering in Coimbra in 1981 for joining PJ. He courses in sociology, psychology, psychiatry and the Criminal Investigation Police School of Lisbon. Having studied law. In functions in PJ for 17 years, rose to the rank of inspector - Head in 1998. Conducted several investigations of murder, and in the case Jeanne - which earned him a case in court in which it accused of failure to report the alleged assaults on Leonor Cipriano. The disappearance of Maddie was the last major case in which was involved. MCCANN CALLED UPON TRANSMITTER Gery and Kate McCann asked the Ocean Club to use an intercom system to hear their children while jantavam in a restaurant at 50 meters from the apartment. As the unit did not have such equipment - the venture is too large to operate the radios - the parents of Maddie felt that was sufficient to see - the half-hour. The McCann refused the service of day care, decision of who repent bitterly. According to the newspaper 'Daily Mail', this revelation in the documentary about the disappearance of Maddie that vai be displayed on ITV channel on Wednesday. PJ DEZENAS OF ELEMENTS OF THE REFORM Besides Gonçalo Amaral - who performed the duties of coordinator of the regional sections of the Banditismo and Combat Trafficking in Narcotics Investigation of PJ in Faro - should to retire during the first six months of this year, about thirty criminal investigators. According to BC said Carlos Anjos, president of ASFIC, "with the entry into force of the new law of retirements, which facilitates the processes, applications for reform increased considerably." Now "if the trader is not old enough (55 years), but length of service vital records (36 years), it is best to ask the retirement soon, because otherwise you can only do five years later." Accordingly, in the last three years have left the PJ about 230 researchers. According to Carlos Anjos, "in most cases are proposed to go to other functions in private" and leave the police. The union leader pointed out that "last year almost all the inspectors who investigated the cases of FP25 reformed itself" but are still elements that are lacking the institution. PARENTS CAMPAIGN IN WORLD The documentary with the ITV wants to point out. 1 year of the disappearance of Maddie shows the campaign for the adoption of a European alert system.


April 17, 2008 - 00:30 am Polémica: Testimony of the detectives Kate PJ of Portimão processes spokesman for the couple McCann Statements of Kate McCann to recall a conversation with his daughter Maddie, on the day it set on the fact that the night before to be left to cry in the room, not in the official process to guard the Judicial Police, found the CM . They were reproduced by Spanish television Telecinco, the journalist Nacho Abad says it has evidence that is true - but Kate will be clarifications provided by the private detectives. The process continues in secret of justice, but 'the day which is open to the public, will be easy to prove that those statements are not there', states a source close to the investigations. So, this leakage of information could never have arisen from within the Judiciary. 'The Day that the situation be properly clarified,' Clarence Mitchell should be the target of a case for damages against the image of the elements of the Department of Criminal Investigation of Portimão, after having been "unfairly accused" by the speaker of McCann to pass information on the case to the media. Incidentally, the police britânicatambémsabeque those statements, Kate, on its relationship with afilha sometimes difficult, nãoconstamno process. When the Spanish channel was reproduced as a delegation of PJ in Leicester, in the period emqueforamouvidos oscasaisamigosdos McCann, and the English authorities confirmed to be a testimony of Kate to private investigators. This is a company that worked for the couple before the Method 3 and ultimately printed a report in which these sentences. According to our sources, only three shares were left with copies of those documents: a company, the McCann and the British authorities. Osproblemascoma imprensainternacional do not stop here and yesterday was the Telegraph avançardeclaraçõesde Guilhermino the Incarnation, the output of a meeting with the prosecutor, which would have said that 'this case will be resolved, donates to hurt anyone. " responsible source close to the PJ from Faro to BC ensures that none of this is true. DETAILS ASFIC SUPPORTS Case Contactado by 'CM', the chairman of the Association of PJ, Carlos Anjos, ensures be 'available for the entire legal aid' that researchers need case of Portimão understand process Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the couple McCann, for damages against image of the department. RECONSTITUTION Carlos Anjos believes that the controversy created around the declarations of Kate, with objections to the PJ by any leakage of information that descredibilize the couple, 'is a trick not to cooperate with the Portuguese justice'. At issue is a reconstitution of the crime, but sought by the PJ that, according to the spokesperson of the couple, will only happen if they are no longer defendants.

126 comments:

LittleGreyCell said...

Don't know if this is just me, but the McCanns comments during the past few days finally admitting they had "made a mistake" in leaving the children alone smacks of a politician at last connecting with negative public opinion and giving way to the smallest admission of mea culpa he can make in order to stay in power.

This is being discussed on Pro sites, as you can imagine, where they are saying if the parents had thought there was the slightest possibility of a potential abduction, of course they wouldn't have left the children on their own.

They STILL do not get it, do they? We have talked about - many times - the stupidity of leaving small kids alone, not only because they might get abducted - not the first thing that occurs to you - but because they might come to harm in a million other ways, ways common to small children left alone.

Maybe the nonchelance these Arguidos display to these normal worries about children demonstrates that they had reason to believe the children wouldn't awaken during the evening. They haven't seemed at all concerned about the kids waking up and crying, wandering about (even though Kate's grandmother admitted ON FILM that Madeleine was a recurrent sleepwalker), injuring themselves and so on.

For me, this is a hugely important aspect to that week. And if the McCanns believe their admission of being wrong in leaving their kids on their own - made now, almost a year to the day that Madeleine came to dire harm - can go some way to alleviating the pressure on them, they are completely mistaken.

It's too late. It's manipulative. And they still don't understand what their admission should be about.

Gina said...

Good Morning all

I was up early this morning and spent time reading many blogsites and I am still as confused about this case now and I was in the beginning. Will this ever end I ask myself, will there ever be a without doubt conclusion. I personally doubt it. It seems to me that not much is happening through the correct channels, all reports and information now seem to be awaited via books from various people, which is inevitable but not the answer to bring justice for Madeleine to WHOEVER was responsible for her disappearance.

I visited Supertrolls website for the first time today and it really confused me more. I could not see the point of it as all it contained were many annon posts slating other bloggers (including myself)in the most childish manner.
All I would like to say to those anons is "you make many accusations towards people based on your own opinions and as I know as fact you have got me wrong, I therefore assume you are wrong about the rest too. Nobody on any site agrees with all comments by other posters if they are honest and I feel this had run so long now for want of something better to do people are just targetted.

IMO there is very little more that can be said now, action one way or another is needed by those involved so you can take the p.ss out of me as much as you like, but from now on I will not be posting so often and when I do it will probably only be to chat to others unless there is something new and postive happening.

Although I still am undecided who did what and why I personally will be glad when a line is drawn under this case and we do not see anymore news articles about it and some other poor distressed parents get a look in because these two have had far too much publicity

marga said...

Morning LGC,
the following excerpt is taken from today's article in the Telegraph.When is your baby too old for a sitter?
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 26/04/2008
Well, some voice of reason at last concerning this issue.
The Mc Canns and friends should read the article in order to get some advice...

"Parents can be prosecuted if they wilfully neglect or abandon any child under the age of 16, in the words of the 1933 act, "in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health"."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/main.jhtml?xml=/education/2008/04/26/faalone26.xml

marga said...

Gina,

you are completely right concerning the publicity around this case and only the releasing of books, documentaries and films will not help bring justice to the girl. What really counts is what the PJ has and Facts.

I agree that many people are indeed following the same track as the parents what the media tools are concerned and this doesn't make me more optimistic...

Gina said...

Marga, to be absolutely honest I asked myself this morning what the hell I think I am doing or what I think I can hope to achieve by continuously stating what to me was the obvious. The McCanns and their supporters still do not see the dangers (excluding an abduction) that they left their kids in, plus the more intrigue this case gets the more books and programmes will be forthcoming (wrong IMO) and whatever evidence the PJ have or do not have is all they have got so I cannot see why some action if they are going take it is not happening. I don't want to read the truth in a book, I want it outed in a courtroom or charges dropped.

marga said...

The Pink one advising Scarlett's mother
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/25/nmitchell125.xml

Please have a look at this:

Miss MacKeown said she was going back to India for eight days because she feels the investigation has stalled. The case was supposed to have been passed from the local Goan authorities to the Central Bureau of Investigation in March.

"The CBI claim they haven't even been approached," she said. "I am going to go and find out exactly what is going on.

"I am going to see the tourism minister and tell him that I am going to promote Goa as a dangerous place to go because of the way the police treat crime and how cheaply they value a tourist's life."

Two men have been arrested in connection with Scarlett's murder and held in custody.


Here we go again...
Some people think they can rule the world and blame everyone for their mistakes.

marga said...

Gina,
I don't want to read the truth in a book, I want it outed in a courtroom or charges dropped.

Saturday, 26 April 2008 09:23:00 o'clock BST
___________________

EXACTLY.

Gina said...

Have a good weekend Marga, I am off now to do some shopping and make the most of the lovely weather.

Zodiac said...

Good morning all,

Marga and CM says what the Mac's did was not a crime in PT or the UK. I am really sick of these ignorant people. Justice has to be done, including everyone who has tried to pervert the course of justice for these child neglectors. To now say it was a mistake is insulting to the 3 year old child that they left night after night (their daughter) unsupervised and as a result she vanished.

"Parents can be prosecuted if they wilfully neglect or abandon any child under the age of 16, in the words of the 1933 act, "in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health".

bath theory said...

Mr Amaral, I too believe that it would be better if you wait until they are in court. If they manage to wriggle out of that then publish the very next day but please wait and that would show an integrity that we would all very much appreciative. An integrity that has been completely lacking from the McCann media side.

bath theory said...

Off to the park with my boys.

Bye :)

marga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nancy said...

VIV and RAT -

I put a couple of comments for you on last night' blog, by mistake!
---------------------------------

GINA - is Supertroll on the same blog as Sassy, Rosiepops et.al?

Nice to see everyone and agree with all you've said!

That picture of Gerry with the long hooter is putting me off my elevenses! Kate doesn't like it either judging by her telling sideways glance!!

I'll be back later - meantime enjoy your day!

Nancy x

nancy said...

LGC-

Your early post is so right. I personally think people would have had a bit more tolerance for the McCanns and friends if they had been honest and come out to admit publicly that what they did was cruel, thoughtless and against the law. This would at least have seen them try to get the message across that children are not status symbols, but should be protected as much as is humanly possible by their elders. The fact that Kate has repeatedly said they have received messages from lots of people condoning what they did as being something many parents did, has put most people against them in my opinion. It shows them to be the arrogant, you cannot touch us, couple they are, and their tapas friends aid and abet them in their self opinionated views. I think they are all gradually losing the public opinion battle re Madeleine's disappearance.

marga said...

marga said...
I've found this article in English on Isabella Nardoni's case for anyone interested.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=450290


BTW
The couple refused to participate in the reconstruction that takes place tomorrow . Their argument: it can incriminate them ...

Saturday, 26 April 2008 11:13:00 o'clock BST

isis said...

Marga, you have to be joking? "it can incriminate them", I thought if they nor their friends had nothing to hide it would be a perfect oppertunity to prove nothing untoward went on that evening.

marga said...

Isis,

I was referring to the Brazilian couple. According to Brazilian law suspects have the right to refuse participate so that it may be possible to produce evidence against themselves".

I agree. This would be the perfect opportunity..

"Alexandre e Anna Carolina foram convocados para a reconstituição, mas a Justiça garante a eles o direito de não participar, para que não produzam provas contra eles mesmos."

marga said...

Forgot to add the link:
http://oglobo.globo.com/sp/mat/2008/04/25/casal_nao_vai_participar_de_reconstituicao_diz_avo_de_isabella-427070976.asp

isis said...

Thanks marga, although i feel the same will apply to the mc canns et al as i am sure they will not return to portugal for very similar reasons.

Gina said...

Hi Nancy re you 10.18 post. No they are not the same. I saw someone posted Supertrolls site address on Sassys so I thought I would take a look as never have before. I am sorry I cannot give you either site addresses now, because you know what I am like with computers, pressed something and have lost them. Dare say someone else can give them to you if you want them. Off to Benidorm in a mo, have a friend in hospital with pneumonia.

Di said...

Afternoon all

I believe it has been reported in a Portuguese newspaper today, that Goncalo Amaral will not release the book until the McCanns arguido status is lifted. I find this worrying, it makes me think he knows they are going to get off scot-free.

Stella said...

JANE TANNER

Do you remember the infamous statement she gave

"Yeah, I was carrying sort of across the body like that. I suppose in hindsight you'd probably think somebody would carry them more against the shoulder".

Apart from the obvious "I" bit, the other strange thing is when she says "in hindsight you'd probably think SOMEBODY would carry them"

Why somebody?

In that conversation surely you would have said he was carrying, he was doing, he did this, he did that. If there really was a he, that is?

By the use of "somebody", it is obvious that she never saw such a man in the first place and is just supposing.........

Cláudia said...

Good afternoon, Di. What the Portuguese papers mention is that the book may only be published after the secrecy period ends. But I'm not so sure.

Di said...

Hi Claudia

If the book is published before their arguido status is lifted. Chances are they will use this as an excuse for not getting a fair trial.

Di said...

Hi Stella

Jane Tanner has an incredible imagination...perhaps she should write a book!!

Cláudia said...

Probably, Di. Assuming they go to trial.
But the question of a fair trial does not pose in Portugal because trial by jury is extremely rare.

Stella said...

I hope Goncalo finds a publisher who can produce his book in as many different languages as possible to reach every country......

That is just in case the book is banned for sale in the UK and we have to order it online from let's say America ???

Stella said...

Di

I agree, and think we should have a picture of all of them with big noses, so that we can see who has told the most porky pies (that's cockney for lies, just in case)

Someone should line them all up and everytime they have fibbed their nose should grow by another notch. IMO, Tanner would be in the lead.......

Di said...

Stella

LOL :o)

Stella said...

Perhaps in the same way people pay for downloads online for music, you could get a book downloaded online, it would be more cost effective, save more trees therefore eco friendly, easily converted into all languages, all in the blink of an eye....... And no one could ban it from sale?

nancy said...

Hi Gina -

thanks for your post - it doesn't matter about the addresses for the pros - I think I can live without visiting them!

I hope your friend is soon better - is she in the private hospital at Benidorm, or the one in Villa Joyosa?

I hope you and your doggies are enjoying this lovely weather!

mandarinn said...

Hi all

mandarinn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cláudia said...

Hello, Mandarinn! :-9

mandarinn said...

Good afernoon Claudia :))) how are you doing?
Something new?
Yesterday night, when i connected the blog,i enjoy the family picture from the "ladies " from HF.
I couldn't imagine such a beauties they are ;)

Cláudia said...

Hello, Mandarinn.
I'm fine, thanks. Getting ready to go out in this wonderful weather! :-) Hope you're ok too.
They are beautiful, aren't they? It's a pity I'm straight! lolol

mandarinn said...

ROFLLLL here the weather is very good 2but it seems next week will change again.. :(

mandarinn said...

Have a lovely saturday, Claudia. see you later

Cláudia said...

Really, Mandarinn? I want good weather! :-)
I wish you and all a great afternoon! :-)

Cláudia said...

Thank you, Mandarinn.
Enjoy your lovely Saturday!

nancy said...

From the McCann files - this is worth repeating:

It appears from this article that the PJ's are going to drop charges against the McCanns, 'except for the charge of endangerment to a child'.

But lawyers accused the PJ's of leaking a statement designed to smear GP Kate. She is said to have admitted that on the morning of the abduction Madeleine asked why she hadn't gone to her when she began crying in the night.

One lawyer said 'this is spiteful and shameful - by charging her with endangerment they would be imlying 'it's all the McCann's fault for leaving her' ! Well I would have thought that was pretty obvious even to a high faluting lawyer!!! Idiots!!

However, endangerment to a child in Portugal can carry quite a long sentence apparently, so no wonder Kate and Gerry are terrified of going back to Portugal, even though it is soon the anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. Unless of course they get a water tight promise that they will not be arrested while so doing! I hope the PJ's don't give in to that request!

nancy said...

I should say that I hope the PJ's don't give into their 'demand' - because that's what it looks like from where I'm standing!

Gina said...

Hi Nancy, just got back from Benidorm what a nightmare trying to park. Friend is in Clinica Benidorm, but hopefully out tomorrow: Luckily her husband gets back from a trip abroad tonight so I will not have to go and pick her up. I have enough Spanish kisses on my car as it is and got all of them while the car was parked!!

Just reading back to see what if anything is going on, not a lot it seems, probably this is the beginning of the end

Zodiac said...

Marga 11.15pm post,

What a co-incidence.

The two — who met while studying Law at university — insist they had nothing to do with the murder, with Nardoni claiming an intruder must have killed his daughter while he was in the basement garage with his wife.

But evidence painstakingly compiled by police showed nobody forced their way into Isabella's room, whose wire safety screen across the window had been cut.

Microscopic particles of Isabella's blood was also found on recently cleaned cloth in Nardoni's apartment, and neighbors reported hearing the girl crying out the night of her murder.

All the clues were systematically leaked to the press, which examined each detail exhaustively, and then fed into endless on-camera studio discussions.

The minute attention given to the case recalled the approach taken by the British media to the disappearance of toddler Madeleine McCann while on a family vacation in Portugal last year. Suspicion focused on her parents, but the case remains unsolved.

Dorlhiac, who works on her paper's foreign desk, said the common thread between the two stories was that the victim was "a child in a well-to-do family."

She predicted that, in terms of the Isabella case, "I think it will be a few weeks before it runs its course."

lizzy said...

Nancy,
I agree with you, why should the Mccanns suspects in the case be in a position to make any demands on the police.? It should be them cooperating with the Pj, not setting demands on what they will and won't do. I still believe there is Political interference in this case at some level, which is also why the requested bank statements for the 3 of the Tapas have yet to be provided and the information that has so far been provided has been provided in drop by drop amounts...I also fear that the reason Amaral is writing the book to expose the lie and reveal the truth in this case, is because he may be aware that this will not be brought to court. If there was to be a court case there would be no need for the book to reveal the truth. I hope though that I'm wrong and that there will be a court case...Lizzy

mandarinn said...

Lizzy & Nancy
The political interference is very clear since the bigining.UK ambassaor was contacted first than the police, it was trought him pj knew the case.
Remnber some months ago a letter from from diplomate who contact the mccanns ,edicted in a belgium newspaper?

mandarinn said...

IMO it is this interference that doesn't allow pj to progress

Joe said...

The only thing that appears to ruffle the feathers of the McCanns team is the possibility that Mr.Amaral will spill the beans and say what actually happened, things that the Tapas 9 will not be able to dispute. This lot know what happened and Mr. Amarals threat of a book is disturbing them if their PR spokesman reaction is anything to go by. Lets face it though this is the only way that the facts may come to light Mr.Amaral and others who are brave enough to speak out and tell the truth.

nancy said...

Mandarinn -

You are absolutely right about political interference from the outset of this case. I shouldn't think anyone in history has been protected as much as the McCanns have after the disappearance of their child. I've never known a case yet where defendants are allowed to call the shots when suspects (arguidos)in a case. If this had happened in the UK they wouldn't be in a position to dictate terms -i.e. they state that they will only think of returning for the reconstruction if the arguido status is lifted!

Because the so called abduction happened in Portugal, they are being treated by the authorities in the UK as if they are being persecuted by the PJ's and Madeleine's dire straits are being conveniently ignored by those who should be fighting for justice in her name. Disgraceful!

viv said...

Hi All

The McCanns say they will not take part in a reconstruction for fear it will incriminate them. This is in line with the right to silence and that no person accused of crime is required to provide evidence against themselves, it is up to the prosecutor to find it.

When you get people standing on those rights they are quite obviously guilty people. The already admit they committed a serious crime of leaving their children alone but as pointed out above I think by LGC what they do not admit is the normal reasons you would have not to do this. They simply use it to insist Madeleine was snatched from her bed, clearly the most unlikely danger that she would have faced. Kate and Gerry have emphatically stated they knew nothing else could have happened to her. I agree this is clearly suggesting they knew she could not wake up, and yet Gerry also stated, when he first looked he wondered if she had gone to the toilet but then saw her. The though of parents drugging a child so that they could go out drinking and perhaps to the extent she could not even wake to use the loo is positively horrifying.

I believe the Portuguese Police will lay appropriate charges against them and the McCanns know full well they will be charged.

So far as Mr Amaral's book is concerned, secrecy of justice will end in August and he can publish then if he wishes. I think it will be helpful in allowing us to learn the truth behind the lie but no doubt we would learn that following them being dealt with in court anyway. Perhaps what he means is they are not going to face more serious charges due to insufficient evidence. It matters not to me if they are to be prosecuted with child endangerment instead. They are still going to have face justice.

nancy said...

Lizzy -

Yes, I agree with all you say. Some say that Amaral should postpone publishing his book until after this is all over, and I went along with that at first, but just how long will that be? It's been almost a year now and we are still at square 1 it ssems! However, at the end of the day I think he will have to concur with the authorities in Portugal.

It will be interesting to see the results of the bank details requested, and hopefully the banks' involved won't have conveniently tampered with details! Nothing would surprise me quite frankly because these people seem to be untouchable - they have all been assisted far beyond most people's wildest dreams by those with clout which could also include their masonic lodge connections in my opinion.

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Yes, precisely - whatever they are eventually brought to court over - if they are - whatever the charge, I'm sure that all evidence will be gone through with a fine tooth comb at that time and at least Madeleine will get the justice she deserves. It is so frustrating though that the McCanns can be seen to get their own way all the time but as you say they are within their rights!!

As far as Amaral's book is concerned, the few months until August is not going to make any discernible difference in the grand scheme of things. I think he will sell even more when the time comes because as time goes by people are making up their own minds about what happened to Madeleine and will be eager to see what Amaral has to say! I know all of on here will!!

hope4truth said...

Hello All

Was haveing a look on Trolls site earlier and Annon (amazing how many Annons post there)Annon said...

"Going to that sick perverted vile site should carry a severe mental health warning. On display daily is an amazing array depraved behaviour of dysfunctional people. I wonder of some of the people are they mad to start with? Or has that site slowly crept into their psyche destroying all normality in its path, until they reach this stage they are in now?
Those people that are now 'locked' into that site, are not even aware that they have slipped that far into depravity, they do not know how sick they appear to other normal people. "

If I had not know any diffrent I would have asumed they were talking about the McCann's as most people now know just how little they thought about their childrens saftey and have now admitted that Madeleine complained about her little brother and herself crying and no one comming to see why they were upset.

I am aparently brainwashed??? NO I am not the McCann media machine will never brainwash me into thinking that they did nothing wrong.

No one has the right to take a child but in the real world thousands of these sick individuals are waiting to pounce the second they get a chance (and this is what the McCanns want us to believe happend).

No they do not have the right to take a child for their own sick motives and if this is what happend poor little Madeleine she was left alone to defend herself against this foul person.

I will not be brainwashed by CM what they did was wrong and now we have them kind of admitting they were wrong but oh it was not their fault MW had no monitors to rent etc etc rubbish they wanted to go our for dinner they did not want to hire a babysitter and they did not want to use the creche that they used in the daytime.

Madeleine was a beautiful 3 year old child her parents think she may still be alive if they had nothing to do with whatever happend to her I cant imagine what they are going through and would not wish it on my worst enemy.

However if Madeleine is still alive what she is going through is a billion times worse than her parents and I will keep all my sympathy for her.

If she is was taken why dont they go back to PDL and answer all questions put to them?

Whatever side of the fence you are on about this ask yourself one question and answer it honestly (and then perhaps the Annons of this world will stop trying to analyse me and stop getting it so very very wrong).

If your child had been abducted can you think of one single question you would refuse to answer?

Maybe I am sick in the head but I cant think of anything no matter how personal that I would refuse to answer because if I was inocent and wanted my daughter found i would answer each and every question fully and quickly as then I could be taken off the suspect list and the police could go back to looking for my child.

Annon I want the world to know that neglect is wrong. I want idiot parents to put their children first I dont know what I can do to change things but I do know in real life if a child was being neglected in my village so the parents could go out to the pub I would call Social Services. I would do this for two reasons 1. The child needs to be safe and 2. Because I am selfish and if I knew a child were home alone I would be worried about them and if anything happend to them I would feel guilty for standing back and allowing it to happen.

1000s of children are neglected every year and not 1 case is OK.

nancy said...

Hope -

Excellent post.

If the parents are absolutely innocent and Madeleine was indeed abducted, and if we found ourselves in that same terrible situation, you and I and any normal caring parent would have called the police straight away, perhaps after spending ten minutes or so scouring the immediate vicinity of the apartment to see if she had run off, and we would have answered every question put to us without hesitation.

But these are not normal parents and a couple of their friends aren't either.

1. They left their children in bed alone - even after they knew Madeleine had been crying for hours the night before.

2. They didn't look for her themselves but allowed the Portuguese community and the PJ's to do that for them (people they now have turned against to suit their own motives). What they did do was go jogging along the beach to keep 'their' strength up!

3. They and their friends made obvious discrepancies in their varying statements about the window, the door, the times and frequency of the checks, etc.

4. They contacted all the people with clout in the UK to help them put into motion a huge publicity campaign, including a worldwide photo of Madeleine's eye deformity, which any intelligent person, especially doctors, must have know would put their little girl's life in danger.

5. They hired Metodo 3 who are not specialists in the field of child abduction.

6. They have carried on since Madeleine's abduction like two celebrities, which I think has gone to their heads. No-one should use a missing child, especially their own, to further their own cause.

7. They have done nothing but insult the PJ's, through their mouthpiece Clarence Mitchell, in order to get the British public on their side.

8. They have never shown any emotion about Madeleine's disappearance - we only have to read Gerry's blog to realise that he and Kate are the most important people in this case - Madeleine is the fuel for their propaganda in my opinion.

We could go on ad infinitum, and probably write a book about the failings of the McCanns and their friends, but I don't want to bore people!

As far as the troll blog is concerned, annon, whoever the lily livered person is, can carry on blogging where her services are needed - I believe they are going down in numbers - and she or he is probably only upset because of the unavailability of this blog to unthinking people like them.

nancy said...

Gina -

How right you are about parking in Benidorm! From now until the end of September it's a 'no go' area for me, especially the Levante end where all the hotels are. I just love the Poniente end where the beaches are twice as wide and it's much more peaceful. I usually start my beachgoing and sea swimming on June 1st!! I like the water really warm.

Isn't Benidorm Clinic a wonderful glossy place - you couldn't imagine MSR (I think that's what they call the deadly bug) ever getting into that spick and span place. I know it's a private clinic, but I have to say the NH hospitals are all spotlessly clean here too. I accompany quite a few ex pats to hospitals - those who can't speak the lingo! You have to take a translator and they don't supply them as in the UK!

As you say, things are slowing down a bit on this case but someone always seems to come up with something relevant to discuss.

I think you will see a huge media frenzy on May 3rd of course!! And of course the Kate and Gerry McCann show will be shown on Wednesday!! Keep some tissues handy for Kate! I believe she actually cries some real tears this time! Well overdue I would say!

Did you see what one of the troll blog anons said about us insane 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest' lot on here! Pot, kettle, black, rings a bell, something which someone I won't name use to say frequently on the DX!

I'm off for a walk now as it's cooling down.

See you later.


Nx

Cláudia said...

Hello, guys. Just back from leisure time. Really hot here!
What's new?

nancy said...

Gina -

Just to ask - what did you think of the group picture of the ladies (and one gent), well in theory anyway - not quite as I imagined them but so clever nonetheless! Docmac and Viv certainly have a great sense of humour between them! Let's face it they have taken enough insults from that lot, so they are just getting back a bit of their own medicine IMO!

mandarinn said...

Good evening VIV; NANCY & HOPE
There are one thing that intrigue me, it is known that madeleine was a sleep walker.In this case how could they know it was safe left her alone even with frequent checks.Do you know if sedate people can have sleep walk?
Concerning everything they say about listhning service, IMO use listhning service for mall children is irresponsible.
Listen mccanns speak it seems the only danger to children to be alone is being kidnapped

hope4truth said...

Hi Nancy

Good post from you (wait for it they will be posing we only post to get a pat on the back LOL)...

You are right on all points the oficial site sickend me Madeleine was not the victim they were and as a parent my children are so far ahead of me in the importance stakes and I allways asumed other people felt the same way?

I dont think I will bother reading there again they can analyse me if it makes them feel good but they are so far out on my "Real Life Personality" it is rather amusing.

I know it is horrible talking about what happend to a 3 year old child but she deserves to have questions asked on her behalf that are not aproved by CM.

If my daughter god forbid was missing for one I would suspect every person in the complex and if a friend had been missing for a long time they would be first on my suspect list and I would have searched for her I would assume she would be around the next corner I turned and would not stop searching until I was exausted (ok someone would have to stay with my other child) the adrenalin on realising she was gone would push me to search.

I hope the secrecy is stopped if they are not going to be charged it will be a shame if a book replaces a court room it will be intresting to see if they sue becuase if it goes to court they may have to answer a lot of questions they dont want to???

xxx

hope4truth said...

See you all later off to have a BBQ before the weather changes xxx

Cláudia said...

Mandarinn, hello. Of course they couldn't know they were safe. Wether Madeleine was a sleep walker or not. They just did not care. How can you go have dinner, drinks and fun with your friends and leave 3 under four year old children alone and know they will be safe? They could drown, choke, fall and have a fatal accident, burn the apartment down, swallow something fatal and so on. But as someone said before, they certainly aren't normal parents...

mandarinn said...

hello Claudia! Did you enjoy the sunny day? I stayed at home because my desk was a mess and i need to set up it to found a certain paper.
What do you think about the listen service so apreciatedby maccns and the "ladies" from HF as old hipy. IMO the devices to listen to the children is only useful when you are at home, for instance on the kitchen or so and the baby's room is not very close.

Cláudia said...

Hi, Mandarinn.
I did enjoy it. It was wonderful and I had a lot of fun. Thank you.
As you said, I think listening devices are very useful indoors so you can check if the baby wakes up, coughs, etc. Anyone using the baby listening service apparently offered by some resorts all over the world for children the age of Madeleine are as irresponsible, selfish and neglectful as the wonder couple is. Just luckier.

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

I was amazed when I heard the Paynes used a baby listening device to actually go out and leave their baby. This product has always been marketed in UK as a device for extremely careful parents who want to check their children are OK whilst they are sleeping in a different room to where the parents are. In short for ultra careful parents who may be concered about cot death etc.i.e. is the baby still breathing? Certainly not to actually go out and leave them!

It would not have even occurred to me that you could be in range to listen to your baby so far away and if there was a serious problem noted, maybe you would be too late..

The fact the McCann are raising all these issues just goes to show how desperate they are. The simple truth is they did not even bother to have a listening device, never mind book a babysitter. They just did not care what happened to their children, on their own admission, left them to cry and fend for themselves. They keep talking about a system of regular checks at 20 or 30 minutes intervals, not only is this completely unacceptable in the case of such tiny children, they have produced no evidence at all they even did this. Again, on their own admission, on 3 May they checked at HOURLY intervals. Then Gerry McCann tries to make the bizarre suggestion some predator was watching and seised an 8 minute window of opportunity!

dolores said...

Case 24horas
Gerry has doubts about the investigation
Published: 26/04/2008
Maddie's Father doubts that the PJ is continuing to investigate the disappearance of his daughter on the 3rd of May last year.

Gerry McCann, speaking to Sky News, posed the question to the Justice Department as to why no-one from the PJ had contacted them with news about the case.

He is irritated that the details of the case remain inaccessible.

On the other hand, Gerry confessed to the "Daily Mail" that he is sorry about leaving Maddie in the apartment on that fateful night. "Kate and I made a mistake, but we are paying for that more than people can imagine", he said, remembering that at that point he found it "normal" to leave the children for dinner.

Since then Maddie's siblings are the subjects of special monitoring. "We never leave them", swears Gerry.


Tell it like it is Gerry, would that be Social Services,keeping a close watch?

viv said...

Hiya all

I think this case is helpful in illustrating the problem police face, they know both parents were there when the child died but cannot prove which one did it, and so instead they were charged with perverting the course of justice, for which a life sentence can also be imposed in an appropriate case:

Pair deny lying over baby's death

The couple have denied the charges at Mold Crown Court
A Flintshire couple have denied lying to police over how their four-month-old son died.
The prosecution at Mold Crown Court alleged Ryan Boswell died in January 2005 after being shaken so hard he suffered a fatal brain injury.

The prosecution claimed one of his parents must have caused the injuries.

John William Boswell, 22, and Emma Louise Buck, 20, of Shotton, both deny perverting the course of justice and the case continues.

'Emergency admission'

Prosecuting barrister Rhys Rowlands told the court Ryan was born three months premature in September 2004.

After making good progress, he was allowed home from hospital in December "with seemingly his whole life ahead of him".

He added: "He was in his parents' care in their home in Shotton for just 18 days before he was returned to hospital as an emergency admission on New Year's Day, 2005.

It must have been one of the two, but it is impossible to say which

Rhys Rowlands, prosecuting

"At that time he was not breathing. He was in cardiac arrest.

"After expert treatment at the accident and emergency department at Chester, Ryan's heart started again.

"But he was clearly very ill. He was transferred to Alderhay [in Liverpool] later that same day."

Mr Rowlands said the baby had suffered a brain injury - bleeding under the brain membrane and eyes - consistent with being shaken.

It was the prosecution case there was no one else at the flat, only the defendants and baby Ryan, and that one or other of his parents was responsible for causing the injuries.

Mr Rowlands said the couple conspired to lie to the police to prevent the authorities from getting at the truth.

They had told ambulance and hospital staff, and later the police, that Ryan had been fed and winded before being placed in a Moses basket.

'Helpless child'

Ms Buck said she noticed he was bleeding from the nose and they immediately rang 999.

Both said nothing untoward had happened to have caused the injuries, which they denied being responsible for.

Mr Rowlands told the jury: "It is significant that their accounts are almost identical, yet they are accounts which are totally refuted by the medical evidence.

"Because there was no one there apart from the helpless child and the two defendants, it is impossible to prove which of the two took hold of him and shook him, causing the brain damage.

"It must have been one of the two, but it is impossible to say which."

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

You know what I really cannot stand is they way Gerry (and his supporters) continue to insist they just made a "mistake". A mistake is a temporary abhorration, an oversight. Taking a conscious decision to just keep leaving tiny children alone is not a mistake. He will continue to infuriate people by his self-serving and defensive statements.

What also seriously infuriates is his repeated insistence that he and Kate are the victims, "no one knows how much we have suffered" etc. If he just stopped trying to suggest they are the victims and plainly accepted that Madeleine is, that would have helped them a lot. It is typical of guilty people that they vainly struggle to give the perception that actually they just made a mistake (minimisation) and that they are victims, not criminals (failure to accept responsibility for own acts). More of the same failure to accept responibility for their own acts is Kate's really annoying comment in the ITV documentary due to be aired "well we wanted to use a listening service but Mark Warner did not have one". In short, she is trying to blame Mark Warner, instead of simply accepting they are not responsible for the care of her children, she is! It just serves them right that Mark Warner continue to refute their vile assertions, including at the outset that there was any damage to shutters or jemmied windows. Good for them!

isis said...

Hi all, have just listened to jon gaunts interview with clarence, in it clarence states that kate and gerry felt that the child checking system they had in place was as good as the baby listening service"available", i was under the impression that this service was not available at the ocean club complex,.apologies if this has been covered.

viv said...

Hi Isis

It has been established from the outset that there was no listening service "available" at PDL and the McCanns were actually told this when they booked the holiday.

They are so desperate to try and find an excuse for the frankly inexcusable it does not stop them keep referring to it.

Clarence Mitchell keep trotting out his lies on their behalf will never change the reality, will it!

Kate is a GP who would have sat in child care case conferences judging parents who behaved just as badly as she did !

isis said...

Thanks viv, so clarence is spouting rubbish again then, more to confuse and derail, like putting ms oldfield in app 5b.

dolores said...

Viv,
Exactly,they refuse point blank to accept, they failed as caring, concerned parents they will blame anyone and everyone,and are in denial.They are lousy parents and their actions of those 5 nights won't alter that,as much as they try.

XX D

leigh3 said...

Dear Marga,

Recently, The Daily Telegraph foolishly allowed a boy journalist to write a comment piece after the McCanns staged appearance in Brussels, and the boy excused child neglect, as we understand it in the UK, and Portugal.

The DT were given a short, sharp smack for failing to monitor their boys and girls closely enough.

I think you may see that the DT are more mindful in future.

Am glad you noticed their latest article. Expect more diligence, as you have every right to expect such diligence, imo.

The sad story of 'missing' Madeleine Beth McCann is being manipulated by cynical and ignorant adults, imo. Truth will out. Let's pursue it, whatever it takes, 'whoever it hurts'.

Boa noite.
xo
leigh

nancy said...

Dolores -

Gerry said:

"Kate and I made a mistake and we are paying for that more than people can imagine"!!

The McCanns are certain it was an abduction, but still no mention about how Madeleine may be suffering or has suffered; and he will never look the truth in the face and admit that Madeleine may now no longer be alive, especially if the 'predator' on seeing the world wide publicity machine go into action knew he would not be able to keep her alive because she would be so recognisable with her eye deformity! I think the McCanns and tapas pals need to face up to reality!

Also this business about the PJ's not keeping him up to date with what is going on - what did he really expect when Kate refused to co-operate and answer all the questions pertinent to Madeleine's disappearance, or agree to return for the reconstruction?

If he really wants to know what is happening, he has one of the best teams of solicitors in London and they also had a lawyer in Portugal so why not get them to liaise with the PJ's about what is going on?

How anyone with an ounce of intelligence can go along with the abduction theory is beyond me - as Viv says, they would have had all of eight minutes to carry this out going by their timing, unless they were lying through their teeth about the times of the 'regular' checks!

Off to watch a video, but see you all tomorrow!!

God Bless - Nancy x

viv said...

Hiya again Dolores and Isis

What do you think about the article I posted about a couple lying to the police. The evidence suggested the baby died from violent shaking, they thought that was the father, but could not prove it. So neither could be charged with manslaughter or murder, instead they were charged with lying to the police and perverting the course of justice.

Is this not exactly the same situation with Kate and Gerry McCann? The Police know Madeleine died, they have a good idea how she died, but they cannot conclusively prove which one did it. Therefore they will be charged with perverting the course of justice, I think it goes a bit beyond in this case, they entered into a conspiracy with their friends to pervert the course of justice and I think the police can prove that, also disposing of the corpse. Also admitted child endangerment.

People should take heart this couple are not going to get away with what they did. They will both serve a hefty sentence if they want to persist with their lies and they know it for a fact because their lawyers will have told them.

Viv x

leigh3 said...

Isis,

There was no baby listening service at PDL. The Mark Warner company has made that crystal clear. Anyone who says otherwise, and thereby implicates MW in Maddie's 'disappearance', is committing libel - a very expensive offence which they will pay for, in due course, once the criminal inquiry is concluded.

isis said...

Leigh, but clarence said so !!!!!!!!!!!!!

viv said...

Hiya all

I just went to have a look at Rosie's blog and the first post I read contains the most horrible racist remark "asian some rubbish".

I am not sure why I go and read this stuff because it never fails to repulse me. This is the same creature that was telling us her "amusing" little story about how she sits blogging whilst her 3 year old messes with dog muck..

Do these deranged people seriously believe they are defending Kate and Gerry McCann? They just do not seem to have the insight to understand that defending serious child neglect shows them up for what they are, and like true racists, spout racism and do not see themselves for what they are.

Viv x


dianeh said...
Hi Everyone.

I am taking the oppotunity to post first. I could do it most nights (my days) but dont, I dont want to seem greedy.

Kate & Gerry know it was a dreadful mistake to leave the children alone. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. It is obvious that to them, it must have seemed safe at the time they did it.

I have just watched the Panorama doco, it was screened here on April 20th, on CI, on pay tv. It wasnt on BBC world, when you all got to see it. ALthough advertised, it was taken off, and replaced with a regional show (asian, some rubbish) that was considered more relevant.

Anyway, the reason I mention it, is that the doco shows that from their table, they could see the apartment. So they probably thought it to be safe. It most likely never crossed their mind that someone would break in and take Madeleine.

26 April 2008 08:18

Joe said...

The secrecy laws in Portugal have protected these individuals as much as it has the PJ investigation. Wait until there is a free for all and everybody talks to the media.So far it has been a walk in the park for Mr.Pink and Co. they cannot talk if a difficult question is asked but happy to talk BS as long as no questions. People can criticize the McCanns for child neglect and leaving their children alone and Pinks shabby attempt at defence of their child care arrangements. It has been done to death IMO they could not care less about Madeline before May 2/3 or after. I for one am sick of the likes of Pink, their child is gone and its whose fault? Whatever their excuse she is gone and they are to blame so Mitchell should shut his nonsense, as the horse has bolted.

leigh3 said...

Yes, Isis.
Clarence did say, and will pay, in time.

leigh3 said...

Hi Viv,
Dianeh should be arrested as a moron, forthwith ;-)

On second thoughts, she's harmless. Morons like her have no influence or power in the world...and no money, so not worth suing for libel, although I pity any child relying on her for adult support. Morons make incompetent adults, imo. Children need competent adults.

leigh3 said...

Honest Joe.

I agree with you: '...the horse has bolted...'.

Nothing the McCanns and their supporters can do now will spare them from the lacerating experience they have earned - all because they didn't tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. However difficult that was, it was a better fate than what will befall them now.

God rest Madeleine's soul. One child is every child, imo.

bath theory said...

LGC- Nancy wrote this earlier and I just want to say I completely 100per cent concur with her and you. It is the crux of this matter.

Your early post is so right. I personally think people would have had a bit more tolerance for the McCanns and friends if they had been honest and come out to admit publicly that what they did was cruel, thoughtless and against the law. This would at least have seen them try to get the message across that children are not status symbols, but should be protected as much as is humanly possible by their elders. The fact that Kate has repeatedly said they have received messages from lots of people condoning what they did as being something many parents did, has put most people against them in my opinion. It shows them to be the arrogant, you cannot touch us, couple they are, and their tapas friends aid and abet them in their self opinionated views.

Joe said...

Hi Leigh3,

As you say no matter what happens their actions have spoken for all to see. In case they have not noticed Madeline is gone so their child care arrangements were tragic so how they can keep justifying them is beyond belief. Small children as any parent knows, and these two medics, can hurt or harm other children in a fit of temper or other reason or sometimes out of devilment, so need supervision, thats aside from getting sick, falling out of bed, climbing out of a cot and falling on to a tiled floor, sticking things into plug sockets etc the list is endless.

leigh3 said...

"Never leave babies or young children alone, whether sleeping or awake, even for a few minutes."

That is the key quote from today's Daily Telegraph article, mentioned by Marga earlier on this forum.

"NEVER LEAVE BABIES OR YOUNG CHILDREN ALONE, WHETHER SLEEPING OR AWAKE, EVEN FOR A FEW MINUTES."

That is the respected advice of the NSPCC, the UKs oldest children protection agency.

That is why the McCanns and their supporters are WRONG, and should be prosecuted for their wilful, premeditated, repeated neglect of babies on their holiday - the oldest one, Madeleine, aged 3, is 'missing', and police suspect her parents.

Their friends who left even younger babies alone, night after night, are negligent, by UK law, and custom.

We await the outcome of the ongoing police investigation which attempts to provide enough evidence/proof for a court of law to hear serious charges based on police suspicions that Maddie died in her parents' apartment, and her body was concealed thereafter.

There is no evidence of an abduction. None. There is evidence of serious child neglect, and lethal crimes.

bath theory said...

Hi Viv, I actually completely ignored Rosiepops in the last week or so on the DX forum because not once did I see a balanced informed post that showed she had seriously thought about a contributor's words and had then adjusted her own.

It reminded me of how Philomena McCann spoke during her embedded SKY reproter days! I would not be suprised to hear that the two are the same.

For that reason I don not contribute to their forum as I feel it is only friends and close family on there. IE people with a very dark agenda who do not debate discuss etc They are clinging to each other for fear of the consequence and their initial success has only served to make them all more smug, odious and creepy.

Forget them as a great songs words say... 'We shall overcome..' We have already overcome them morally and ethically it is just a case of hopefully overcoming them legally. (IMO)

Zodiac said...

They should be prosecuted for child endangerment at least, if not that is an insult to the innocent little victim, the only victim. I do not believe the adbduction story and never will. I will wait for the book about the lie, at least that will give a better perspective. Even if a baby listening service was available what responsible parent would use it.

Night all have a lovely evening.

isis said...

Leigh, if clarence has liebeled so has ms oldfield , in regard to her recent comments re the leaks and attributing them to the pj. Who are they going to roll out next to open mouth and change feet. Clarence should tread very carefully i am thinking, although he has gone very quiet since his "gloved are off" declaration, funny that as i have immense difficulty imagining pinky as a bare knuckle boxer!!

bath theory said...

Night Zodiac.

I also believe their behaviour of leaving the chidlren was 'systematic' and thus it cannot be written off simply (after ages of denying it totally) as a simple 'mistake.'

This is extremely important as the child protection officer chat we had at school last Autumn mentioned that to prosecute you have to show it is systematic and then the defence finds it extrememly hard to counter. The only defence would then be mentally impaired.

Thus there must have been a motive (IMO) that was more than just drinking and chatting with each other. Especially if you factor in Madeliene complaining ( does anyone think this just happened one breakfast morning, not me)

As such, to continue to ignore all these children implies a greater need than just a getting together to chat and drink.

That is why (IMO) a motive based around sexual gratification could well be prominent here and it could also explain why the group has stayed so tight.... so far !!

bath theory said...

Another thing following the 8 minute window which was discussed earlier.

If an abduction took place and 'some abductor creeps' were watching them as K & G claim, then why did the 'bad abductors' not take them earlier that week when they didn't check.

Madeliene cried for nealry 2 hrs the night before. Thus why suddenly decide to check them every 20 minutes or so as they initially claim.

It does not wash. If some creepy weirdos were watching them and a rota was in place that specific last night the creepy weirdos would have been too scared to act that night. It was too risky.

Why risk an 8 minute window when you can have a 2 hr or 3 hr one.

bath theory said...

While I am on a roll... the important period is between 6.00pm and 8.30pm. I have given my two children around 2,000 baths.

1) 95 per cent have fallen between these two times.
2) 85 per cent have been traumatic at a certain point. (Note 2 kids not 3)
3) When two of us have done it together it is much calmer ( Gerry claims he was on the tennis court)

Thus, it is highly likely the bath time plays a role in all this as they have never talked about it that night. And yet, all of us human beings now a bath time with young children is a special magic thing, especially if it was pretty much the last thing you did together.

I am convinced the bath has something to do with all of this (IMO) no facts yet to substantiate this though, sorry.

leigh3 said...

Hi Bath Theory.
I follow your logic, and sentiment, however I think that persistently negligent parents court danger for their children any time of day or night.

The McCanns have shown by their words and deeds that their needs and wishes were more important than their children's. Such parents are capable of much self pity,hand wringing, and self-preservation. They are pathologically incapable of seeing the situation from the child's perspective, I think. They focus on their own rights, and attack anyone who dares to remind them that they have responsibilities which they neglected, although the facts - all their nights out leaving babies alone - prove that they are negligent,although the ongoing police inquiry suspects them of far greater crimes.

bath theory said...

Actually Leigh you have the word it was 'persistent' not 'systematic' Thanks for putting it right for me. Sorry

bath theory said...

Do you feel their needs were grounded sexually Leigh? or just purely the frivolity of a piss up. I think the former as it provides a more solid reason for sticking together.

bath theory said...

Well must be going as it is Match of the Day and I can't miss the excitement . Cheers :)

Joe said...

The comment that we could see the apartment from the Tapas bar is often cited as well by the McCanns. What did they expect?......Madeline to stand on the balcony or at the shuttered window and shout for help?

For the reasons I posted earlier leaving children alone is a no brainer to coin an American turn of phrase.

leigh3 said...

dtletters@telegraph.co.uk

That is where anyone might like to send a letter supporting today's article in that newspaper, mentioned by Marga and me earlier on this thread.

You might like to address your email to Mr Lewis, the Editor.

If you want to see the article, then go to www.telegraph.co.uk and put the words child neglect in their 'search' box at the top right of the homepage.

The article is based on advice from the NSPCC, the UKs oldest child protection agency.

Thank you if you choose to give support to this issue.
Night, darlings.
leigh

isis said...

JOE, WOULD YOU BELIEVE THAT A PRO POSTER ON THE 3AS ACTUALLY THOUGHT THE DOORS WERE LEFT UNLOCKED SO MADELEINE COULD SHOUT OVER TO HER PARENTS IN THE TAPAS BAR IF SHE NEEDED THEM !! THE MIND BOGGLES.

isis said...

Oops sorry for cap locks, daughter was on msn and i didnt notice them til i read my post!1 I wasnt shouting!!!!

leigh3 said...

Bath Theory.
I hope you enjoy the footie :-)
For now, to answer your question, I have never speculated on the motives of the McCanns, and their holiday friends.

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn ;-) They were all just plain wrong, and the ongoing inquiry in all its forms will focus on the children involved, I think.

Gr8 to see you pursuing the issues, though. Life's a team effort, yes? Enjoy the footie. See you next time.
x
leigh

leigh3 said...

Goodnight Isis and Joe. Gotta go. Perhaps we can agree that the desperation of McCann supporters defies logic. It certainly defies belief!
xo
leigh

Joe said...

Night Leigh 3.

Joe said...

Isis,

There was I thinking that I was far out in thinking that was what the McCanns expected of their 4 year old child.

isis said...

Joe, yes and she was only 3 at the time:((((

Joe said...

Isis,

In reality they do not have a credible excuse for their behaviour but that has not stopped them. Really though by keeping the neglect issue alive it keeps the abduction theory in the frame, when really some accident probably happened when children left alone or even when both parents there.

isis said...

Joe, if someone could provide me with a really credible abduction theory with a credible timeframe and a really credible sighting, i might , just might consider it. Until then i will just have to go with my gut instint.

isis said...

Lets assume that madeleine was abducted. Scenario one, she was targeted by a professional ring, well if this was the scenario i would have thought that it being a planned opreation i.e. that madeleine was targeted, there would have been a car waiting at the rear of the appartment to spirit the child away no need for forced shutters just out the front door and into a waiting car, certainly no bundle/egg/toothman wandering through the streets of pdl with madeleine in his arms. Scenario 2, a random snatch by the predatory paedophile, an unprepared act perpetrated by an individual unable to control his sick urges. The chanel 4 programs expert does not think that this is probable due to madeleines age, the sick perverts not interested in a child of madeleines age. If she was taken in this way i think that her little body would have been found nearby not long after her being taken. For those reasons i find stranger abduction very hard to imagine

Joe said...

Isis,

As you say in your analysis, not likely. Added to this is the McCanns claiming that they were being watched and all the other behaviour they exhibited, culminating in refusal to go back to PDL, not something you would do if you were convinced an abductor took your child. If for one moment Isis one went with your theory and accepted it as a possibility then as time elapsed ones acceptance would turn to suspicion of the parents, which happened mostly because of their behaviour IMO.

Gina said...

Hi Isis,

I think this has been like piecing together a large jigsaw puzzle that we later find has a few pieces missing. Therefore we will never see the true picture and will be left to guess what it is.

librarising said...

Child abduction is vanishingly rare, but also is every parent's nightmare. The McCanns have no evidence that Madeleine was abducted apart from the assertions of one of their friends that she saw someone carrying a child (unless you count the laughably various window/shutter reports - more things apparently happened to that shutter than I had ever imagined could possibly happen to a shutter, and simultaneously at that).

A far more likely scenario from the evidence offered by the McCanns was that the child had wandered off, but the abduction story was their preferred option from the first.

Why? Well, remember that people are very ready to believe in their worst fears. Abduction scares are thus easy to sell. I'm afraid I have never believed the story from the first time it was offered to us.

If the couple really did experience the events of May 3 as they have reported them, they should have spent every waking hour for the next week looking for a child who had in all likelihood wandered down those dark stairs in the absence of adult supervision and off into PDL with its drains, roadworks and beach. But they didn't do that did they? Instead they and their rapidly expanding team were busily selling their child's abduction to us. Either they're trying to fool themselves, or trying to fool us; either way I don't buy it.

Everything I have said is fair comment based on the facts as they have been reported. The strenuous efforts of an organised and uniform team of shameless internet bullies to persuade those whose responses are less than credulous of the abduction story and its satellite spin that they are cruel, heartless and about to be sued serve only to convince me that I have been lied to since May 3 2007.

I really hate being lied to.

viv said...

Hi Gina

Goncalo is clearly stating he can tell us the truth behind the lie. i think the police know exactly what happened but it may be that without specific evidence as to who actually killed Madeleine they cannot be prosecuted for manslaughte or murder and so just this aspect will remain a mystery. It will not stop the McCann from going to prison however and it being clear is was one or the other of them, I believe by overdosing with sedatives.

isis said...

Joe, i agree. If madeleine was abducted, i would have thought the most important thing to do would be to draw up a time line and put together a reconstruction based on that time line. After all if the really feel they were being watched and madeleine was targeted, by putting together a definate time line it might jog someones memory if they could associate having seen madeleine at a certain timewith seeing somthing unusual at the same time which they thought nothing of at first but in the light of this childs disappearance now may have some signifigance. They behaviour is most unusual

isis said...

Night Gina, i will have to disagree with you ! I think that the whole picture will emerge and we will find out the truth. BTW the hairspray on biro took most of the stain out, thanks for the tip !!

librarising said...

Isis - not wanting to take part in a reconstruction in case you get incriminated and arrested is actually very rational behaviour.

Gina said...

Hi Viv, you may well be right, but I guess I just do not like loose ends, I am a it's black or white sort of person so would really have liked the truth to out in a courtroom with no doubts. ie they are either guilty or they are not, end of. My biggest wish however has always been that Madeleine would be found and laid to rest properly but that I doubt will ever happen now which I find really sad and upsetting

Gina said...

Hi Isis, no problem disagreeing with me, I sincerely hope that you are right.

Re the stain, sometimes it works with hairspray and sometimes it does not because they do not all have the same ingredients in their makeup. Now if I could only remember the name of the one that always seems to work that would be more useful. (probably the one that makes your hair fall out) :-)

librarising said...

Daily Telegraph, May 6 2007:

[quote]Silvia Batisa, head of administration at the complex, helped to comfort the family and interpret their interviews with the police: "The parents were devastated, in a panic... The parents immediately said, 'She’s been kidnapped'," said Batisa.

Paul Moyes, 58, from Middlewich, Cheshire, was among those who helped to look for the missing child: "At 11.30pm there was a knock on the door and there was a distressed gentleman saying that a child had been abducted and could we help with the search. Everybody got involved."... From the outset, the McCanns were convinced their daughter had been abducted.'[end quote]

From the outset eh? If that is true they are monumental fools, and failed to look for a little girl who had almost certainly simply wandered off due to their failure to look after her properly.

I don't take the McCanns for fools.

isis said...

Libra, rational or calculated.

isis said...

Gina, could do with a bit of my hair falling out!! My ghd is broken and i look like a shhep !!

librarising said...

Isis, both of those and completely immoral.

librarising said...

...there is no good reason for refusing to take part in that reconstruction. Plenty of stinking bad ones though.

Gina said...

Sorry Isis, don't have any bad hair day tips.

It is fiesta here in Spain which means loads of music and currently a massive firework display which I have been watching from my window. The noise was unbelievable but I think they have now finished so I can go to bed without thinking war has broken out

isis said...

Libra/Gina, slán, Its well past my bedtime will catch you all tomorrow .

Gina said...

Good night Isis and all off myself too now x

isis said...

Gina , just caught your last post before i crash, i so envy your weather, i am surprised that with the amount of rain that Ireland has that we have not become the atlantis of the north atlantic !!

librarising said...

Night night Isis.

Cláudia said...

Just wanted to wish you all a good night.
xxxx