9 Apr 2008


Hi Everyone, yes this is the second post I have made today but I thought it was such an important one it should get prominence in its own thread, so that it is easy to see. Posts can sometimes get buried when we get 700 posts as we did yesterday. However, if you want to continue commenting on the second post on the left that is fine, I just wanted you to all see this, and see how disingenuous the McCanns are jumping on a bandwagon and trying to make out they are forging new ground to safeguard children. My middle son said to me recently well would you want them to babysit your grandchildren mom? I wont tell you my reply..(!)

HawkEyes1 said...
lizzy suggested that I post this article from FROM MY BIG DESK here, which I had previously replicated on The Three Arguidos Forum along with the original source. She thought that it would be of interest to your posters too._________________________________________________I recently came across this excellent article on a blog, entitled http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/2008/ ... thing.htmlwhich I would like to publicise here, as it is very relevant to this OP. Just WHY is Gerry McCann not working with MISSING CHILDREN EUROPE, if it is an affiliate of NCMEC and ICMEC? WHY is he denying the existence of such an organisation already in Europe addressing the issue of international abductions?News From My Big DeskMonday, 14 January 2008Gerry McCann; here's another funny thing!Well, Gerry there are lots of funny things about the story of how your daughter came to disappear on May 3rd, 2007. I'm not going to ask you about any of those at the moment. I'm just going to concentrate here on your comparison of the ways in which missing children cases are dealt with in the US and in Europe. To quote from the recent entry in your blog."Clearly Europe has a lot to learn from the US and there has to be change in practice and legislation about how missing children are investigated. We will continue to campaign to effect change in Europe, in the hope that it will become a safer place for our children."Leaving aside for the moment your comment about a safer place for our children, if you want to campaign for change in Europe, why not support an organisation that already exists and is campaigning for a Europe-wide approach to the problem? You really didn't need to go jetting off to the US. There is already an organisation which is affiliated to the Washington organisation which you visited.http://www.missingchildreneurope.eu/"MissionMissing Children Europe is the European Federation for Missing and Sexually Exploited Children. Missing Children Europe has 21 member NGOs from 15 countries of the EU. These 21 NGOs work every day to prevent and fight the sexual exploitation of children and assist parents and investigators confronted with the disappearance of a child. As a platform regrouping these 21 NGOs, Missing Children Europe has as primary goals to:share good practices among the members, represent the members towards the European institutions, assure a European presence at the International Centre for Missing and Exploited Children in Washington.The disappearance and sexual exploitation of children is a global phenomenon, which touches an increasingly worrying but undefined number of children. A European and international approach is essential to tackle the problem efficiently."See Gerry? A European and international approach. And what about this, Gerry?"Assure a European presence at ICMECMissing Children Europe is the regional representative of the global movement of the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children in Washington."And where this organisation is?"Where we areMissing Children Europe represents NGOs from 15 EU Member States: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Romania and the United Kingdom.The General Secretariat of Missing Children Europe is based in Brussels."So, even if you had wanted to go to the hub of the enterprise, Brussels is a bit closer to Portugal than is Washington. Missing Children Europe, as you will read above is the regional representative of the international centre based in Washington.So, Gerry, since there is already a European campaign for Europe-wide change, why do you think it's necessary for you to set up some kind of separate campaign? Why not just support the existing work?And, oh dear, Gerry! Making Europe a safer place for our children? So, they do things differently in the US, do they when parents leave their children alone in an unlocked apartment? What do they do? Have some kind of alarm system in every home, hotel room, holiday apartment etc, that lets you know when your children, whom you have left to fend for themselves, are being abducted? Maybe a red light flashes on your mobile phone while you're sitting there at dinner sending text messages?Well, Gerry, just two bits of advice I'd like to share with you.1) Children are generally much safer when they are not left alone. So, maybe that should be the basis of your campaign.2) No need for your European campaign. Just contact Missing Children Europe who, I am sure, will appreciate your support, especially as you are so good at fund-raising and you do appear to have contacts in high places.Here it is again, Gerry, just in case you missed it!http://www.missingchildreneurope.eu/?q=nodeAnd Gerry, here's some good news for you, a way in which you can help, since you want to campaign for change in Europe. International Missing Children Day, May 25th.http://www.missingchildreneurope.eu/?q=node/31Why not give some publicity to this organisation on your site, Gerry, just in case your readers don't know that there is already a Europe-based organisation for missing and exploited children, campaigning for that Europe-Wide approach?
Wednesday, 9 April 2008 05:59:00 o'clock BST

viv said...
HawkeyesThanks very much indeed for that.I think it raises such an important issue that is should get prominence by a fresh post which I will do. Not only of the existence of competent organisations to deal with this issue but of the disingenuous behaviour of the McCanns in casting around looking for a platform to suggest they are decent parents and sell themselves to the higher bidder bleating on about it. We would have much preferred to see Kate and Gerry McCann going around in tee shirts saying, never ever leave your tiny tots alone, we lost Maddie because of our stupid behaviour. PLEASE do not make the same mistake. Of course that is not how they lost Maddie though, is it and just like typical serious criminals the last thing they are going to do is take resposibility and actually admit they did anything wrong at all. Instead, again, just like typical criminals they continue to try and cast themselves as the victims. From the very outset Gerry rushed off to the States saying to my complete shock and amazement at the time, he wanted to "focus on the wider political issues". I really never could stand this man! Viv x


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viv said...

GERRY DID A POWER POINT PRESENTATION ON HIS LAPTOP..that will get them out of trouble then!

McCanns To Argue For Child Alert System
Updated:07:44, Wednesday April 09, 2008

The parents of missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann are setting up a dedicated information hotline for missing children that will be available across Europe.

McCanns are heading to BrusselsKate and Gerry McCann and their team are believed to have already reserved the hotline number - 116 000.

It has yet to go live but today the couple are visiting Brussels as part of a campaign to bring in a dedicated alert system for abducted children.

Kate, 40, and Gerry, 39, from Rothley, Leics, recently visited America to see the "Amber" alert system.

This allows police to commandeer the airwaves and television channels in different states if they believe a child has been abducted.

The system also allows news alerts, often including the registration number of a suspect's vehicle, to be flashed up on digital signs on main roads.

Tomorrow the couple will make a power-point presentation to MEPs at the European Parliament in Brussels, providing them with details about how the system works and the case for introducing it in Europe.

The couple say such a system could have helped find their daughter Madeleine in the crucial hours after she went missing from their apartment in the Portuguese holiday resort of Praia da Luz on May 3 last year.

Madeleine: missing since last MayThe move has received cross-party support in the European Parliament and is being sponsored by five MEPs.

Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: "For Kate and Gerry this is an important opportunity to ensure better co-ordination in Europe when a child goes missing to make sure that no other family goes through the anguish that they are continuing to endure.

"They hope to get the support of a majority of the Parliament's MEPs and with such a moral authority they hope that the European Commission will ensure that such a system comes in to being."

For the proposal to be brought forward, it would have to be signed by a majority of the 785 MEPs within three months.

This week Portuguese police asked the couple to return to Praia da Luz to take part in a reconstruction of the events of May 3.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
I'm so glad Hawkeyes managed to post his article,as I thought everyone would find it of interest.Thanks for putting it on your blog Viv. Lizzy

ICantThinkOfAName said...


The HYS that was on the DX last night has been pulled, I wonder why?

The current theme is the child alert system so I have asked why there is a need to set up a new one.

I wonder how long before that HYS disappears?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

On the question of a dedicated hotline number, the question must be asked what would happen to the call?

Would it be routed to the nearest police control room or to a central point? If the latter would the operator at the central point alert the local police? How long would this take? Would the operrators be multi-lingual?

If the former why not just dial the emergency number for the police?

If the system is basically for police to notify other police forces don't existing facilities function and why is there a dedicated number for the public?

lorraine said...

Jane Tanner, one of the main witnesses in the process of Maddie's disappearance, yesterday again, gave a different account from the previous ones. Questioned by the PJ team that was sent to England, Jane did not manage to explain how, when and where she saw the supposed kidnapper - the same that, in November, she described in a very detailed way for the making of a sketched portrait of the suspect. Yesterday, Tanner could not even tell if she went to check on her own children in the bedroom at the Ocean Club. The sentence “I do not remember”, ended up being her most frequent answer. “She entered very calm and even smiled. When she went out she was trembling and her face was very red. She did not speak with anyone”, described to 24horas a source at the headquarters from the Leicester police.

We were able to establish that Tanner was confronted with the fact that, in her first statement, back in May, she said nothing relevant, later said that she saw a man carrying, which seemed to her, a child in his arms and, in November, she described the alleged kidnapper. The answer was: “I do not remember it well anymore” .The investigators even asked Jane to give again the description of the person, but the witness gave different indications from those that were used to make the drawing that ran throughout the world.

Also heard yesterday was Russell O'Brien, Jane's husband, who says he had gone to see the children at the same time that Maddie disappeared. He said, back in May, that the children had vomited, but the management of the resort Ocean Club assured that, on that night, nobody asked for any change of bed sheets. Questioned, Russell could not explain the discrepancy.

Today there will be cross-examinations to David and Fiona Payne, who organized the holidays of the group in the Praia da Luz.
Joana Morais Blog
Source: 24 Horas

Gina said...

Many of us are not aware of all the organisations that have been set up for various things. It is not until something happens to us personally do we become aware of them, often too late to make the best use from them. The organisations related to helping locate missing children and offering support to their families have, and are still doing a fantastic job, so what are the McCanns saying, they know best, do it our way. They could have used there high profile to spotlight these organisations instead of spotlighting themselves as usual IMO

Gina said...

Lorraine what you have just posted is very interesting, if true. However I doubt very much that a reporter from 24 horas was sitting in on the interview and this may only be wishful thinking on his behalf. Do you know where this reporter got this info from (not having a go at you, just interested)

lorraine said...

Hi Gina
It says in the post that the source was from Leicester Police Headquarters. Anyway it's rather hard to believe any report now whether for or against so don't know what to make of it.

ratonthebeam said...

Morning, all!

Bloomin' typical, I am out of the country and stuff starts happening. At least it IS happening! Even the DX had a forum up and running last night, it was almost like the Good Old Days, till somebody got cold feet and pulled it again.

ChildFocus is a huge organisation and has been up and running (in Belgium at least) for 7 or 8 years. Everyone knows about it. They advocate just dialling 110!!! No €1.50 per minute private numbers, a la Retardo 3.

That's why I could never understand where the Mcs were coming from with all this "let's set up a European initiative" bullsh*t.

And I would strongly advise them against any Queen-style publicity walkabouts through the streets of Brussels. The Belgian people are not real keen on people who neglect children, and are very p*ssed off at the idea of any Government corruption. Marc Detroux made sure of that.

Leaving for work now, will try and look in later.

Gina said...

Hi Lorraine, I know there are reporters outside the police headquarters and accept they might see people going in and out, and form an opinion of how they looked when they came out, but as to what was actually said during the interview is very doubtful IMO. Anyway at least something is happening and hopefully it will get sorted out soon.

Off now, may look in later, have a nice day

lorraine said...

Gina. Hope something gets sorted soon as it's gone on far too long. I'm off myself now too. Have a nice day, speak later.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Well the answer to my question about how long the latest DX HYS would last after I posted has been answered.

It was less than 30minutes.

By the way viv I wish you would use verification words we could pronounce.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

A new HYS was started so I posted the same questions I posed here at 8.22.

Guess what?

The half comments have disappeared and a new HYS has started.

I wonder how long the new one will last?

marga said...

Morning all!

I also posted in the DX forum but they deleted tha article.

I have said they should have stayed in England helping the police clarifying the "abduction" of their own child. That would be appreciated. I added that IMO they are also afraid of the British police otherwise they wouldn't go to Brussels at the moment.

In fact this is a bad publicity they are doing themselves.
The spin too is becoming more evident even for the people that haven't followed the case in the blogs. Not only evident but very stupid indeed. Who can be fooled by their PR saying they hadn't mobiles or watches on May 3rd? Who can believe them if they don't come to Pt for the reconstruction if they continue to be arguidos?
They must be panicking and are shooting their own feet.

The world is watching them and the more they spin the closer you come..
Força PJ!
We all count on your integrity.

lorraine said...

Morning Marga

Some people are on the other thread, don't know where we are supposed to be, I'm just reading both at the moment.

ICantThinkOfAName said...


Perhaps the Express didn't like the defence of the McCann's by melbel.

By the way I missed 601 as it was a location of an assassination.

marga said...

Don't know if SM is around but I 've just seen on TV that there is 10-year-old girl missing in Sweden since last yesterday.

She was last seen by her team colleagues after their football practise on her way home on a bycicle (5Km!!)in the countryside I suppose.

viv said...

Hiya ROB

Lovely to see you posting again.

I was rather amazed to see McCanns even got their own number allocated! It does make one very suspicious the way they like to control people's calls via their special hotlines, a la Retardos instead of the Police. It is almost like they have developed this hostile prejudice to people just phoning the police about crime in the normal way, I cannot imagine why!

I wonder if the will be speaking about why they left it 40 minutes or so to ring the Police and commenting on whether this is a good idea, if you are so utterly convinced your child has been nabbed by predators, I do like to use Gerry's word there..sounds so sinister..watching us for days probably, knowing our routine (child neglect that is) and just waiting for that 8 minutes window of opportunity among our system of regular checks. Never could get my head around that one, either. I mean 9.05 him and then 10.05 Kate sounds like hourly checks to me and I wonder how they got spot on the hour for their er regular checks when they forgot their watches and mobiles. On the other thread I posted an article from the Daily Mirror September 07 apparently PJ were working out where they all were from the calls they made on their mobiles THAT NIGHT. I just had to resort to calling Ludicrous a bloody liar with his latest ridiculous claim.
No doubt, they are desperately worried and his press releases are becoming increasingly more bizarre and unbelievable.

Also on the other thread I commented about how Kate was too poorly, apparently to go to Portugal on 15 May but not it would seem to go to Brussels tomorrow. Funny how people can predict they are going to be feeling ill a month in advance.

I doubt Kate will be feeling like doing a Queen style walkabout, if she does I can rely on the Belgiums to let her know just what they think!

Viv x


the logins are computer generated by google and designed to be different to deter people like the demented Supertroll/Assasin from spamming with repeated barmy posts. If it was something nice and easy and the same I am sure she would just cut and paste which she is very good at!

marga said...



Hope she won't ressurrect again!!!

marga said...


as Viv has justed posted here I suppose it is the right thread!?

viv said...


That is the typical scenario where children genuinely are abducted, I really hope not and she will be found safe and well.

Viv x

viv said...


I probably would assasinate her if I could get my hands on her:- ))))

What a sicko!

viv said...

Hiya I actually meant you to use the other thread but as you mostly seem to be posting on here, no matter!

I got the above and just thought it deserved its own thread, hence me posting two in one day, that always confuses people, sorry guys I will try not to do that again, but hey things are hotting up!

Do you think we might get 700 posts on two separate threads!!

Anonymous said...

Good morning Viv and everyone here

I am delighted that more people can read this article here. Hawkeyes is a brilliant poster on the 3a'S, most informative threads and a lovely person :)

Have a lovely sunny day!

marga said...

viv said...

That is the typical scenario where children genuinely are abducted, I really hope not and she will be found safe and well.

Viv x

Wednesday, 9 April 2008 10:31:00 o'clock BST

Yes, you are right. And it is not commom with babies. When it happens here it is at hospitals.

I'm watching Sky. They are live in Dewsbury. lot of cameras and journalists there. Sth that I also find strange is how can they be kept away from Rothley and now from the Tapas?

marga said...

Have to go now.

I wonder if one day we all are going to see an identical development by the Mc Canns and friends... only hope the British police and people have the courage to behave the same way toward them too. How could they have allowed their return without their child and did not take measures thinking of the child?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Traditonally pantomime cows are called by one of two names. One is Buttercup, can anyone remember what the other name is?

marga said...

If they are going to escape justice there always be a bad example to be followed.

Thanks God the latest developments are giving me hope again.

P.S. Sick are the ones who defend irresponsible adults and not abused or missing children.

marga said...


sorry, can't help you. It must be sth british....

viv said...

Hiya Marga

The difference in the reporting is that Shannon's mum has actually been charged. That makes her fair game for the press. They are not permitted to harass people who have not yet been charged, once the McCanns are that may be a different matter although they are clearly better equipped to protect themselves than Shannon's mum and will be the first to cry foul play and a breach of their human rights I am sure..Shame they could not think about their childrens' human rights x

Gina said...

I just posted my views on the reconstruction on the other thread, I am all confused which thread people are posting on now, so will be back later when you have all settled somewhere.

Viv I don't think we are good a multi-tasking!!!!!

Di said...


Daisy LOL


viv said...


Flowery names to belong to posters who like to put up a pretence of being nice people, if not they are cute little dolls or fairies. Clearly not of the real world x

At least Supertroll/Assasin is honest with her names!

viv said...

Hiya Southerncross

I just had a lovely sunny walk around my garden. Lots of lovely spring bulbs, flowers and chirping birds.

Better than last weekend!

dolores said...

Morning all,

K & G re 'Amber Alert'in their case, it should be 'Parent Alert'

Can anyone honestly say they would trust their hotline number?

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

Never mind whether we could trust their hotline number, and I am sure that would turn people right off! Can we trust them with anything!

dolores said...

Seems that like me you did'nt sleep long.:)

xx D

I wonder when being questioned this morning, if David Payne will say......

“We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else’s business”,

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

I dont tend to sleep much either!

I think David Payne may have lost his brash arrogance when he walks in that room with video camera, Dr Paulo Rebelo and Det Super Prior, I think he will start to tremble at the thought of having to repeat his claim he saw Madeleine alive and well at 6.30 pm that night. He is likely to receive some very strong challenges about that, given no one else saw her all afternoon from about 1.30 pm!

viv said...

Oh and then there is his wife Fiona with that smug smirk on her face last July. I think it will have been wiped off right now.

We have managed to establish beyond a shadow of doubt Mr Murat was not in the vicinity of the McCanns apartment that night, like you insist that he was and argued with him he was at the confrontation we arranged in July. We have several witnesses that confirm you lied, why did you do that, there is no evidence that Mr Murat had anything to do with Madeleine at all, not a forensic trace, why did you come back with Dr O'brien and Rachel Oldfield insisting that he did?

Now have a good old smirk, Fiona!

SwedishMum said...

Hi Viv, Marga and all!

Just a quick visit this time.


the missing girl hasn't been found yet and the police doesn't seem to give much hope for a happy ending - but everyone (of course) hope that the worst case scenario won't be the right one.

A 42-year old truckdriver has been arrested suspected of being involved in Engla's disappearance. He's obviously been convicted for sex crimes before and his car was seen in the area at the time when Engla disappeared. However, I'm not sure how strong a potential case against him is.

All we can do now is pray that Engla will be found safe and well.

viv said...

Unlike every other day, little Maddie was not dumped back in the creche after the lunch time break.


viv said...

Oh my God Engla that sounds truly terrible but what fantastic police work to catch him so quickly, if she is still alive I hope they beat it out of him and get to her.

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Hello, guys!

SwedishMum said...


If he's the guilty one I certainly hope they can get her whereabouts out of him - but he's asked for one of the most famous attorneys in this country, so I'm not sure what will happen.

viv said...

Ola querida Claudia

What do you think of the claim in 24 Horas they even know about Tanner's interview?

viv said...

Hiya again Swedishmum

Sounds like they have their man..the attorney may prejudice them finding her, sadly.

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Hi, Viv.
Well, I don't know if it is true or not. But I don't find it impossible that they know.
I read a post from someone in the 3 A's. Well, I am not going to comment on most of the info but the bit about Gonçalo Amaral is not true.

Cláudia said...

Hello, Swedish Mum. Just to let you know that the story about the missing Swedish girl has been breaking news here in Portugal.

Anonymous said...

Hallo Claudia :)

Viv, may I please email you later re something? I do not think I have your email addy?

viv said...

Hiya darling

I dont have time to read the 3 As and dont believe the nasty things people say about Goncalo Amaral.

They found forensic traces of that poor child in that woman's freezer!

He got the right ones, no doubt about that

Viv x

viv said...

Daisy : silly cow and we could not give a stuff about your name or you x

Cláudia said...

I don't read it either, Viv.
It was something taken from the 3 As and posted here. And it wasn't nasty. It was bad news for the Mccanns. But it said that Gonçalo was going to be back on the case.

Hello, Southerncross! :-)

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

Oh yea I read that and then forgot it again!

2345 said...

Great articles ... many thanks.

This leads me to Shannon's case and stark comparisons. Today's press:

"The mother of kidnapped schoolgirl Shannon Matthews was charged last night with perverting the course of justice and child neglect.


"Nobody knows the full story yet.
Police have not ruled out making further arrests and one legal source confirmed: "Anyone who knew hwere Shannon was and stayed silent can expect to be prosecuted".

Gordon Brown has not intervened ...

This confirms child neglect is a criminal offence in Britain as well as Portugal. The article suggests imprisonment penalties in Britain are harsher than Portugal.

By their own admission, McCanns admitted leaving two 2 year old babies and their 3 year old daughter without adult supervision for five consecutive nights in an alien environment.

Their protectionists have stated McCanns' neglect of their children to be 'normal', whereas action taken by Police in Shannon's case confounds this assertion. In legal terms, it is NOT.

Shannon was found alive and is safe and secure; her welfare is protected by Social Services.

Madeleine has not been found, her disappearance according to parents being the result of neglect.

Information released by British Police and leaked by frustrated PJ,
upholds Eddie & Keela's confirmation last July of death.

Police procedures in Shannon's case are not subjected to interference or influence - the police are at liberty to take steps they deem necessary in relation to their findings.

In Madeleine's case, Police were prevented from arresting prime suspects seven months ago.

Prosecutor's Court focus on evidence examined ruled PJ's two month visit to obtain ALL statements needed from prime suspects, CM, numerous independent witnesses and Tapas Group.

Shannon was found alive, but her mother has nevertheless been charged with neglect as law dictates.

Same Portuguese Laws apply to the McCanns and Madeleine is still missing.

IF Eddie & Keela's and forensic results had been found by police in Shannon's case, immediate arrests would have been made.
Those found responsible for death and disappearance would have been charged and taken to Court.

What would the sentence be in Britain given that Shannon's mother could be facing a maximum penalty of life behind bars - despite her child being found alive ?

If, as it seems, McCanns have evaded requestioning as Prosecutor ruled for early March, if they are not to face PJ's dossier of damning evidence in Court coupled with no charge of neglect, then the level of protection they have been afforded from day one is very transparent.

Shannon's case illustrates unhindered police procedures; the McCanns confirms the opposite.

Gordon Brown is not closely associated with Shannon's family and has not intervened ..........

I had no idea penalties for child neglect carried a maximum penalty of life imprisonment in Britain.

McCanns opnely admitted abandoning three vulnerable children night after night ... Shannon's mother neglected one who she knew was alive and living with a relative.

Two cases - the Law in practice, the Law and evidence thwarted, each and every step of the way.

In answer to claudia yesterday, 2345 is very 'disturbed' - I'm deeply disturbed by the unprecedented protection given to the McCanns, the lies and the corruption given the seriousness of the evidence.

I'm too focussed on police perspective and facts to succumb to confusing, brainwashing techniques in force.

Cláudia said...

Viv, that bit, at least, is not true.
Not that I would mind...

SwedishMum said...

Hi Claudia,

It's sad that it's mostly crimes and tragedies that are reported all over Europe, but that's the way media works (and obviously what the public want as well). Every once in a while one would wish for the sunshine stories to be told as well.

Cláudia said...

2345, when did I say you were disturbed? Find it, please.

Cláudia said...

You know, SM, here in Portugal, news about children are often breaking news. Some weeks ago, the opening piece of news in all our channels was one about two children who had been hit by a car, something which, sadly, happens all over the world everyday. And no, they were not seriously injured. Both out of hospital already. You know, it's one of those cultural things...

SwedishMum said...

Really have to go now, but before I go I'll just say that I will and would doubt every unnamed source claiming to know what's been said during the current interviews. I don't believe that real journalists have the same kind of devices Rita Skeeter (in Harry Potter) did.

Bye all!
Have a nice day!

viv said...


What same Portuguese laws apply ? I do not understand the link you are trying to make, UK law applies to Karen who committed a different and far less serious (although still serious) offence here, not Portugal.

In fact penalties for child neglect are harsher in Portugal than in UK. Perverting the course of justice is probably the more serious offence Karen faces but we still dont know the facts and so cannot really say.

SwedishMum said...


A good cultural thing, nothing is more precious and important than our children.


Cláudia said...

Hope I'll see you later, SM.

Cláudia said...

SM, I agree. Obviously! :-)

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Everyone,

It's now obvious to me why they waited 40 minutes before calling the police - they didn't have any watches on so weren't aware of the time!


ultraviolet said...

not only has the mother of shannon been charged, she has been remanded in cells until april 16.

not even permitted to go home with bail conditions.

this would perhaps indicate that it is serious.

viv said...

Hiya Ultraviolet

Yes it certainly does indicate it was very serious. Perhaps she did know where Shannon was and so she was both perverting the course of justice and neglecting her, but looks like we will have to continue to wait and see!

If that is the case she will be looking at a good few years but certainly not life.. see below:

'House from hell' couple jailed for child neglect

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Change font size: A | A | ABy Jason Bennetto, Crime Correspondent
Tuesday, 21 March 2000

A mother and father who were acquitted of murdering two of their sons and a nephew were yesterday jailed for wilful neglect of children at what was described as the "house from hell".

A mother and father who were acquitted of murdering two of their sons and a nephew were yesterday jailed for wilful neglect of children at what was described as the "house from hell".

The man, 38, was sentenced to a total of six years and his 26-year-old partner was given a two-and-half-year jail term for mistreatment of their five children. Following the sentences, police called for new legislation to block a legal loophole which allowed the couple to be freed because there was no independent witness to the killings.

The man and woman, of Brighton, who cannot be named for legal reasons, were cleared last year of smothering their sons, aged 17 months and six weeks, and their five-week-old nephew. The murder inquiry was launched after the boys died in the couple's care between 1994 and 1997.

Mr Justice Moses ordered the jury to return not guilty verdicts on all three counts after ruling that the Crown could not prove which one, if either, had killed the children, or whether they had acted together.

"Better both be acquitted than one wrongly convicted," the judge said. But at Lewes Crown Court yesterday they were sentenced for cruelty to five of their children. The neglect charges concerned the couple's 17-month-old son, who died, and their other four children, who were aged six, three, two and one when taken into care.

During a two-week trial the jury heard how the children's beds were left soiled with excrement, the children's hair was infested with lice, food had been walked into the carpet and the bedrooms of the house were full of flies. Judge Scott-Gall said the couple "did not deserve children and should never have them again".

The woman was jailed after being convicted of five charges of wilful neglect of children. Her partner was given a two-year sentence for the five charges of wilful neglect.

He was also given a three-and-a-half-year sentence after being convicted of six charges of rape involving his sisters when he was a teenager, and a further six-month sentence for threatening to kill a social worker who visited the home he shared with the woman. The sentences are to run consecutively.

There are now calls for an inquiry into why the couple were able to continue abusing children for so long.

Detective Inspector Malcolm Bacon, who led the inquiry, said after yesterday's hearing: "When I went to the house it was awful. It was the house from hell. There was food in the carpet and there was urine on the floor. It was a house in the 1990s, but it could have been the 1890s.

"It was shocking wilfulness in the way that it continued and did not stop... It was the worst case of neglect I have ever seen." The murder case prompted Sussex Police Authority to write to the Home Office calling for a new offence to be introduced making both parties in such cases responsible, even if only one committed the crime.

Paul Whitehouse, Chief Constable of Sussex, said: "We have three people in the room. Two adults come out alive and a child is dead. How can it be right that you cannot convict either of them if they stay silent or blame each other?" he said.

Joe said...


Its all to do with what class one is perceived to be. Its all wrong, even the canoe guy and his wife in jail. If its money or fraud its serious but anything else is less even a murder crime is often treated less harshly. All depends on who you are.

2345 said...


Laws relating to child neglect.

The McCanns plea of abduction, Madeleine taken in their absence, constitutes child neglect, a criminal offence in Portugal as well as Britain.

Cláudia said...

2345, when did I say you were disturbed?

viv said...

Hiya Joe

The crime of murder on conviction for that offence cannot be treated less seriously in UK law, it carries a mandatory life penalty although the judge will set the minimum period the person must serve prior to being considered for parole. Even on release a convicted murderer is on licence for life and can be sent straight back to prison for any breach of their licence conditions e.g. failing to regularly report to a probation officer, assaulting someone etc. This often does happen.

If the murder charge gets reduced to manslaughter the maximum penalty is life which can mean someone does not go to prison at all, they might even get probation although this is rare. Typically in a domestic killing on a conviction for manslaughter the sentence is 5-8 years. Lenient really particularly given they may get parole much earlier than this.

lorraine said...

So Kate will return to Portugal if her arguida status is removed. Won't it be too traumatic for her then also? Makes you wonder the cause of her stress/trauma. The status or her missing child.

viv said...


Thanks for telling me what I already know and just said!

dolores said...

I have come back from a lovely short walk in the sunshine,and noticed that the DE (although not the online version)is thumbing it's nose at Mc's,it is large headlines and covers the whole front page. You were right saying their revenge would be sweet.
The Mc's are not getting all their own way. It's coming back to bite them.

SM...I pray for the safety of this little 10 yr old. These b......s
are should be put on a ship, in the middle of the Atlantic and forgotten about.


viv said...

Blimey Dolores

Dont tell me I have got to start actually paying for the Daily Express, can we have a quick precis!

nancy said...

Thank you Viv -

Hawkeyes article is very informative to say the least and something I personally wasn't aware of.

It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that Gerry McCann wants to take the public's mind off the crime of which they are guilty - leaving their very young children alone on consecutive nights leading to the disappearance of Madeleine - and is trying to get the public's sympathy by playing the part of a good samaritan now! I say Gerry, because I think he is the leader of the team McCann and Kate just goes where he leads her!

viv said...

Just occurs they could have put Karen in custody for her own protection from others or to put her on suicide watch.

Zodiac said...


So sorry to hear that a 10 year old girl is missing. Hope she is found.

JT interview, I really do not believe we will hear anything regarding her interview and of the others. However if it is as suggested she now claims she does not remember! Then what about the so called dramatic speaking out in the Panorama programme, she went into a lot of detail there and the confirming of the Toothman photofit that was revealed at the oh so unbelievable press conference, where no questions were allowed and with no representatives from the PJ and the British Police. Viv, could that be considered perverting the course of justice? Her interview lasted 11 hours, surely if she was sticking to her story as suggested it would not take long to convey it. How long did it take for account to be told on Panorama 2 mins! IMHO this will be long and drawn out and I do believe justice is coming. Last chance saloon for the Tapas 10, IMHO.


viv said...

Hiya Nancy

Absolutely agree with your post. Spot on!

Viv x

dolores said...

Sorry darling,I did not buy it...
there were only a few lines on the front page about the 'friend' on about K's emotional state and how know one is thinking of her feelings.
Pity the 'friend' did not mention Madeleines feelings and human rights the right to live,or, I hope she gets justice.


viv said...

Hiya Zodiac

I do agree I consider it fanciful in the extreme to suggest that either Leics Police or PJ would leak a single word about these interviews. It is clearly possible Clarence etc may do though with appropriate top spin applied. From many articles I have read in 24 Horas I do think he briefs them, but their stories are also comprised of other sources not him alone, hence they can be supportive of both sides in the same article.

I certainly think Panorama will be used in evidence against Tanner and the McCanns. If she provided false information in that programme yes it would go towards a charge of perverting the course of justice. Saying she can no longer remember would not, I dont think. That is her way of saying I dont want to dig any deeper holes thanks!

In relation to Clarence releasing the photofit, it is not up to the police to comment on his antics, that would be entirely unprofessional and really descending to his level. It may be difficult to prove he actually intended to pervert the course of justice by doing that, but not impossible.

I can believe her interview would have been very lengthy covering many areas about her own whereabouts and actions that night and her knowledge of others too, most particularly her partner O'Brien, the supposed sickness of her daughter etc. I can also believe it would be possible for both UK Police and Dr Rebelo himself to cross examine her on what she was stating at some length to try and establish lies and truths, to pin her down on what she is finally saying and yes, even confuse her, to show contradictions with her earlier accounts and completely discredit her credibility as a witness.

ultraviolet said...

you can see a picture of it here


nancy said...

Hi Viv -

I wrote something on the other blog in answer to yours - I think most of us are posting on here so I'll stay on this one I think.

dolores said...

Latest news on TV. Sharron's mum is charged Concealing, information,neglect and abandonment and remanded in custody, and that it is not over yet.Further arrests not ruled out.

viv said...

Shannon's mum's in major trouble then!!

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

Yes, it is this thread that seems to have taken off!

I always have a meagre post count on one when I double post!

I think this blog will explode though when things really break, as I know that they will!

viv said...

Couple of good posts on the other thread so I though I would bring them across as everyone now here:

Zodiac said...
Poor Kate, if she really believes Madeleine has been abducted and suffering who knows what at the hands of her abductor/s then she should be putting her abducted daughters feelings/health before her own. She is giving the impression her feelings/health, her needs are more important than her missing child. Ooops she already showed that by her actions on the 3/5/07, IMHO. Unbelievable behaviour, once again. Justice is coming and no amount of pathetic election style spin will stop it, IMHO. Editorial Intelligence take note the public are not as daft as you thought. Your spin might work in elections, how many people actually care about elections a lot less than the amount that care about a little 3 year old girl left with her twin 2 year old siblings alone in a holiday flat while her Doctor parents wined and dined with friends a 100mts away in a Tapas bar, supposedly without a watch and mobile phone, and as a result of the parents actions the child vanished. How these two can attend the Europarl in Brussels and expect the whole of Europe to take them seriously is LUDICROUS. Hope awkward questions are asked, especially as we already have a system in Europe. Will it be another press Q & A interview where they veto the questions.

Wednesday, 9 April 2008 12:13:00 o'clock BST
nancy said...
Hi Viv -

thanks for the answer to my post and the explanation as to why the McCanns are as free as birds and Karen Matthews is locked up and being kept away from her other children.

It does beg the question though as to why the McCanns are allowed to keep their other two children with them when they too could be thought to be at risk!

Surely the possibility that the McCanns could up sticks and disappear to the other ends of the earth - they have the money - should be taken into account too, or do you think they are being closely watched in case of this. The PJ's made them arguidos, but would that legally stop them from disappearing from one of their globe trots!

In that respect don't you think the law is a bit of an ass waiting to get them on a worse offence than neglect and abandonment - I would have thought that getting them in court to answer questions on that would help the police to gain a good impression of whether they are lying and trying to pervert the course of justice!

Obviously the law is the law, and we have to let it take it's course!

Wednesday, 9 April 2008 13:02:00 o'clock BST

viv said...

I think the McCanns status as middle class doctors would have influenced SSD in their decision but just as powerfully also having a very expensive London lawyer at that time to argue their case for them. I think he would have said it just would not be fair to remove the twins from the McCanns because this could deny them a fair trial in that it would be pre-judging their guilt. Sadly a case of the parents needs getting put before the twins. I have always argued that sooner or later the twins will have to be separated from Kate and Gerry and had they been removed at just turned two, the damage would have been far less than when they are well turned three. However, I am sure the SSD will have had a full case conference and taken appropriate action to safeguard the twins without actually removing them from Kate and Gerry's care. The action they can take in this regard is pretty extensive.

Wizard said...

The McCanns involvement with Amber Alert is a sham and another one of their smoke screens. Why not get involved with the European organisation? Well imo the McCanns are still big news in Europe and the European organisation would probably treat any overtures from them with caution. After the initial publicity back in May the USA has not had much further coverage on this case, therefore, it may well be the American organisation was easier to soft soap.

All this activity imo is for people who have not been following this case in detail to say. “Would they go to these lengths in they were guilty!” To the unenlightened all this activity would infer innocence thus the circus continues.

2345 said...


Cláudia said...
Hello, Ana. I'm sure they will come. After all, they've always said that they would return immediately when requested by the authorities and we all know they would never lie. Especially since it's their daughter we're talking about here. Right? ;-)

Tuesday, 8 April 2008 14:59:00 o'clock BST

"we all know they would never lie" - says who ???

McCanns lies are well documented - they habitually say one thing and do the opposite.

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

I agree the McCanns activities are purely to imply innocence to the unenlightened and I was simply staggered they even extracted half a million from the Daily Express to do so.

Some people who do not have the grey stuff to work it out clearly are saying exactly what Clarence /the McCanns intends them to say, well look how could they have got damages and why would they be doing this campaign in Brussels, obviously they are innocent.

I think public opinion has always been terribly important to them because they really did believe they were going to get away with this and wanted to make lots of money when they get their arguido status was lifted. I do not think they believe that now however. So then there is the issue of how a jury would view matters if they get one in UK or Portugal, again trying to give the public a good impressio is terribly important. Finally, public opinion is terribly important to Kate, she just cannot bear the public viewing her for what she is. She has even tried to suggest it is because she does not look mumsy/ too slim, small breast etc. A very false view of reality, she just does not see things in a rational way and fully comprehend what the public actually see IMO. She is very narcissistic IMO, thinking looks are very important and if you get that right, everything else will be right, clearly not the case..

Joe said...

On the 3A site earlier, dunno if its true but Tanner and OBrien to be interviewed again today.

LittleGreyCell said...

Just been reading a great thread on the 3As by HawkEyes1:-


On it, HE1 has collated many of the highly illuminating - if not highly unusual - things to have come out of the mouths of Team McCann.

Here are a few of them:-

CM: "I was the head of the government's Media Monitoring Unit. Forty people work there and their function is to control what comes out in the media."

GM: "we are hoping for the best possible outcome for us.... and Madeleine"

CM: on the lack of tears, " They don't cry in public, but plenty of tears are shed 'backstage.'"

GM said: "I'm desensitised to the more common pictures of Madeleine."

KM: "I'm not so happy now that Madeleine has gone."

CM, "There is a wholly innocent explanation for anything which may or may not have been found."

I'd love the Pros to study this collection and then explain how any of these quotes - let alone ALL of them together - do not point to behaviour which is totally bizarre and abnormal in the circumstances.

2345 said...


I agree. CM is at liberty to print whatever rubbish he chooses.
Can see why he was handpicked to make life as difficult as possible for the police. Every single thing he hands out is aired without question in newspapers TV and radio.

The case has become a total brainwashing campaign designed to undermine two police forces, evidence and legal procedures.

Chris Freind a highly respected American journalist has been writing articles, not only on McCanns' behaviour, but also the unprecedented way media has handled it.

CM's task is solely to broadcast misinformation. The alarming truth is that he has the contacts and means by which to do it.

He even takes it upon himself to speak on behalf of the police.

(google) articles/news Sept 07 do include statements by PJ, but none since. Leicester Police, somewhat unusually in a case of this calibre have only released FSS information and that was 7 months ago.

Top civil servant CM has become mouthpiece and case manager; jouralism forms no part of the unrelenting media manipulation.
Chris Freind heavily criticised it and recognized it as political. overruling everyone, especially the police

Zodiac said...


Interesting thread on 3 A's the 116000 number quoted in the blog was reserved in December 2006 for European missing children.
Bandwagon lets jump on it, it is all our idea, how lovely we are, IMHO. Hope the investigative journalists ask questions on Thursday. Will someone be tugging their ears and have really tight nik naks on, so tight that it make their voice screech while the other looks around at anything other than a camera. Will Cuddle Cat be there. What utter rubbish, IMHO.

2345 said...


It does not progress Prosecutor's/PJ's focus on Court to interview one or two Tapas friends.

Prosecutor ruled PJ to visit for at least two month state to re-interview prime suspects, CM, numerous independent witness and Tapas group.

CM's power with media manipulation is not to be under estimated ... he was hand picked. He was appointed to undermine the police and sway public opinion against the police. To this end, he's been printing misinformation from day one - it's his job.

CM has all the contacts, he can 'fix' anything - a photo outside of Court, reporters and photographers as and when needed.
Brown's determined McCanns will be shielded ... he despatched CM to achieve it.

As questioning one or two from Prosecutor's long list is a pointless exercise in terms of ALL others who need to be questioned for Court, I think PJ's arrival is another of CM's charades. Designed to fool people - everything he does and says is to fool the public.

2345 said...


In short, Gerry's viewed the case as a "fight" from day one. Making fools of the police by controlling PR and then fighting their excellent results.

For the McCanns, it's never been about finding Madeleine ... it's a charade.

Those protecting McCanns are very unpleasant people; all operate by intimidation, threat and menace.
Control, bullying, misinformation to get opinion behind them and overrule the police.

It isn't a case following legal procedures - it's Gerry's "fight" against it - Gordon Brown gave him CM for this reason.

Anonymous said...

It really annoys me. All this fuss and "international communities" and "amber alerts" and jet-setting off to the US, when all these two (the McCanns) ever had to do was simply order room service that night!

Through their self-indulgence and negligence, they have made what was a very simply situation into a mammoth drama that they themselves are no doubt deeply regretting, but could easily have avoided.

If you are walking down the street one day, turn your back for a moment and then find when you turn back again that (God forbid), your child has vanished, then yes of course, Amber Alert! But the McCanns situation is nothing like this. Spending night after night apart from their small children (and once being called back to their room by hotel staff), they practically handed the child over to an abductor! They basically set the whole situation up, and yet now they want to blame all these external factors, and travel around the world "campaigning" for child safety issues. The nerve of them! Furthermore, in the eyes of many, the name of Portugal, the PJ, and even a hapless wanderer, are now permanently tainted, and all because they couldn't be bothered to do what even a ten-year-old would understand, i.e., don't leave three children under 4, alone, at night, in a foreign country (with the door locked OR unlocked)!

dylan said...

Hi folks,

Just popped in and have to go pdq!

LGC, interesting GM's statement - Madeleine is almost an afterthought. Was it a "slip" perchance?!

I suffered 45 mins of football last night in case of signs of dear docmac. Not only that but I follow Aresenal too :(
Still, I am pleased for Doc as his efforts of flying over here were rewarded. Son said that last half was very good and all in all a great match. Well done Liverpool (sniff, sniff)!

Last formal exam tomorrow. Off out for a celebration with my fellow sufferers. Have the weekend to catch up on missed blogging.

TFN, Dillie xx

PS viv - if you see this, I did apologise for a certain email the other day but not sure you caught it, so sorry again. x

Vivs a hypocrite said...

Viv/Felicity, etc

And that coming from you!!!

"A very false view of reality, she just does not see things in a rational way and fully comprehend what the public actually see IMO."

leigh3 said...

Hi All,

A wave of nostalgia swept over me last night; 'just like old times', as librarising said after familiar names began posting on the DE forum regarding the McCanns' latest antics. Excellent points were made by names we came to like and respect - then whoosh! Gone. There's always next time :-), and ICTOAN has a new avatar. Progress, indeed when us Luddites get to grips with 21st century tricks - speaking of which...

14.23 2345s post: I agree with your succinct assessment. That is why I have long called it the McCann Machine of Media Manipulators. That's another phrase which upsets them. It's blunt, and they prefer sophistry.

On an optimistic note: the police and the media learn new tricks all the time; it's part of their jobs, and the public are smarter than mere manipulators, imo.

Slowly, slowly catchy monkey - I agree, Zodiac :-)...

Gotta dash. See you all sometime.
HELLO SHEILA! Looks like the barbie is heating up nicely.

xo all,

2345 said...


If only it were that simple.

As Kate herself said in a live interview, in defence of neglecting her children - "we KNOW what happened to Madeleine and it didn't happen because she was left alone".

Exactly ... as confirmed by Eddie Keela and dossier of evidence.

2345 said...


Hello ... nice to see you, have jobs to do and hope to catch up soon.

Anonymous said...

Hey Leigh!

Nice to see you again.

This sheila's pretty confused by it all, to be honest, but I sincerely hope that whatever the truth is, it comes out soon and justice is done.

Take care :-)

leigh3 said...

And finally...

'...only the parents and the PJ know what happened to Madeleine...', as a McCann supporter admitted in an unguarded moment on the DE forum one night. Of course, I was happy to agree with him, although he played down the comment when I highlighted it.

Can we see a pattern emerging here? A rhetorical question.

2345: Always pleased to see you highlight the police case, and the issue of political interference, and media manipulation. These three clear issues explain why this simple case is being made unnecessarily complicated,imo.

Ho hum. Spin cycles break down eventually. That's a basic law of mechanics. No exceptions.

Anonymous said...


That quote is pretty scary, i.e.,
""we KNOW what happened to Madeleine and it didn't happen because she was left alone".

Sometimes people say things that on a conscious level they think is okay, but is actually an unconscious admission of guilt/the truth. I have often wondered if this was the case with some of the things McCanns say, eg, "Find the body and prove we killed her" (Gerry). At first, this statement may just seem like a defensive reaction to the PJ's accusations, but when you really think about it, it sounds more like a challenge!

There is DEFINITELY something weird about the McCanns comments, although whether it means they actually killed their daughter I am not comfortable in saying. Personally, I am awaiting the justice process and keeping an open mind from all perspectives.

P.S. You still haven't told me what made you think I was A: Portuguese, B: Who "became Canadian", and C: Turned against the PJ?? (All of this is completely bizarre to me).

ICantThinkOfAName said...


My new avatar is a picture of a huge helium filled chocolate figure. On this site (only) you can compare it with the people in the procession.

Did you see my earlier postings that the DX pulled the same story three times and in between "lost" the HYS.

Anonymous said...


Nice to see you again. Is that from the Macy's Parade in New York?


nancy said...

2345 -

I'm sure we all take your point about Gordon Brown hand picking CM for the prime and well paid job of speaking for the McCanns and making sure the publicity is always in their favour, but I have asked you a few times just why Gordon Brown would do this - he must have his reasons surely and it can't just be because he had a naff holiday in Portugal at one time!

nancy said...

Just what is going on at the DX - as ICTOAN says they keep putting up a story and then pulling the forum - are they going do lally or what!!

leigh3 said...


Have got to dash, but couldn't resist saying 'hi' or should that be 'high', given your new stature ...

Hopefully, we can talk soon about the DEs latest manoeuvres. It's a game of cat and mouse, imo.

BTW: I think your posts here and elsewhere get straight to the serious issues, but with well timed humour at times. Ta. Was fab to see likeable names on DE again.

No doubt, we will see them again. Really, must dash. SEE YOU NEXT TIME BIANCA!

Anonymous said...

Ciao Leigh. Enjoy!

ICantThinkOfAName said...


I'm not really sure about the parade.

I Googled "Flickr" and asked for Firemen.

My previous avatar came from Lewes Bonfire Night.

Gina said...

Off topic but a friend just emailed me this and how true this is.

When things in your life seem almost too much to handle, when 24 hours
in a day are not enough, remember the mayonnaise jar and the 2 glasses
of wine...

A professor stood before his philosophy class and had some items in
front of him. When the class began, wordlessly, he picked up a very
large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf

He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.

The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the
jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas
between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar
was full. They agreed it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar.
Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if
the jar was full. The students responded with a unanimous 'yes.'

The professor then produced two glasses of wine from under the table
and poured the entire contents into the jar, effectively filling the
empty space between the sand. The students laughed.

'Now,' said the professor, as the laughter subsided, 'I want you to
recognize that this jar represents your life.
The golf balls are the important things; your family, your children,
your health, your friends, and your favourite passions; things that if
everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still
be full.'

The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your
house, and your car.
The sand is everything else; the small stuff.

'If you put the sand into the jar first,' he continued, 'There is no
room for the pebbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life. If you
spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have
room for the things that are important to you.'

'Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play
with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your
partner out to dinner. Play another 18. Do one more run down the ski
slope. There will always be time to clean the house and fix the
disposal. Take care of the golf balls first; the things that really
matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand.'

One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the wine

The professor smiled. 'I'm glad you asked. It just goes to show you
that no matter how full your life may seem, there's always room for a couple of glasses of wine with a friend.

LittleGreyCell said...

Gordon Brown didn't bcome PM until June 27th last year...didn't Clarrie go to Praia da Luz well before then? Was he not sent by Blair, in that case?

SwedishMum said...


What an absolutely lovely story. Thank you (and thanks to your friend as well)!

Anonymous said...


It looks like the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. Those things are really cool, especially for children :-)

SwedishMum said...

Hi all,

back for a moment before I have to prepare dinner.

Anonymous said...

That's cute Gina, although I can assure you this guy is not a real philosophy professor! LOL


Vivs a hypocrite said...

viv said...
Daisy : silly cow and we could not give a stuff about your name or you x

Changed my name for you. Hope you like this one better. Now get off the computer and go and make your children do something useful with themselves.You cant expect all the working people to support them.

Gina said...

Bianca/swedish mum it may not have been written by a professor but I am sure there is some relevance in the story. Seems to me a lot of people have not got enough golf balls in their life!!

marga said...

Can you magine the mc canns visiting the Maneken Piss??

BIG L : This is especially for you ...


SwedishMum said...

How true you've spoken ...
Though at times there seem to be an awful lot of wine floating around.

SwedishMum said...

That last one was for you Gina

SwedishMum said...

No, no, not the wine part - the part about truth (I have to start thinking before I write, totally potty)

Gina said...

Hi Swedish Mum was just reading the posts I have missed.

The amber alert system is totally worthless in a small country if you take as long as the McCanns did to call the police. A police friend told me there is what they call the "Golden Hour" when they have a chance of apprehending abductors. In small countries it is not just a case of checking ports and airports, that is not the only way out for a well planned escape out of the country.

Re Kate's friend saying she is too weak to go back to Portugal. Well maybe she is, but there was no need for them both to go to Brussels, Gerry is the mouthpiece anyway. Why on earth she doesn't just stay at home and be a mother to her twins is totally beyond me.

Back off to finish off what I was doing in the garden, but it is so windy it is becoming difficult to do anything. :-)

marga said...

Sth from the Expresso online:

(B l u e S k y, 1 ponto , 23:09 | Terça-feira, 8 de Abr de 2008)


infeliz no nome e no destino

eurekamano said...

Hi, this posted by 'blondeefromthemirror' on 3As in last hour.

"I have heard on Portuguese Tv news, The PJ has told the McCanns that they are not in a position to make any demands whatsoever. Their status as suspects will not be lifted until a trial occurs".

Can any Portuguese friends confirm please?

marga said...

Sousa Uva's Appeal

The creation of this system of European alert for lost children appeared after Margarida Sousa Uva, wife of the president of the European Commission, Durão Barroso, had alerted Brussels for the " lack of political will " in the 27 to create a system of efficient alert for disappearances. " Unfortunately, the rights of the children are not a priority of the political diary ", criticized Margarida Sousa Uva, who has just been elected a president of the annual general meeting of the recently created Associação Portuguesa of Lost Children. Margarida Sousa Uva remembered then that the mechanism of alert is already definite and is applied efficiently in Germany, France, Greece and the United Kingdom and the need to extend it to the 27. | - I.D.B.



I've altready emailed the association that I think is the same Alsabella has in her blog after reading this article.

I hope this news is not true.

2345 said...


Well said and Interpol were quickly alerted. There's a copy of details on Interpol files on 3 A's, I'll try to relocate it and paste it.

Contacting the media and others took precedence with Gerry over and above the police ... so nothing's changed.

dolores said...

I hope it is true,this is they way they should have been put in their place,since becoming arguido's


marga said...

What I meant was..

I hope Durão Barroso's wife is not going to meet the neglectors.

Anonymous said...

"Bianca/swedish mum it may not have been written by a professor but I am sure there is some relevance in the story. Seems to me a lot of people have not got enough golf balls in their life!!" - [quoting Gina]

Agreed Gina!


ratonthebeam said...

Well, Marga, I hope she does, and I hope she tells them what they can do with "their" hotline :-(

Wizard said...

Hi Viv and 2345,
Just been reading back and I agree with you earlier posts to me. I remember reading many months ago a poster on the Daily Express, who said posting, regarding the McCann case, was not good for her health. I have to agree I find myself getting very angry every time I read about one of the stunts Team McCann have pulled and appear to get away with. However, I console myself with the thought that a slow methodical approach usually pays off so hopeful the pj will come up trumps.

marga said...

eurekamano said...
Hi, this posted by 'blondeefromthemirror' on 3As in last hour.

"I have heard on Portuguese Tv news, The PJ has told the McCanns that they are not in a position to make any demands whatsoever. Their status as suspects will not be lifted until a trial occurs".

Can any Portuguese friends confirm please?

Wednesday, 9 April 2008 16:19:00 o'clock BST


If that is true it is going to be repeated soon.
We can let you know then...

Paulo Pereira Cristôvão also belongs to the same association and we all know what he thinks of the Mc Canns... If it was for him they were already charged.

Wizard said...

"The McCanns status as suspects will not be lifted until a trial occurs".
If this report is true it is very good news.

ratonthebeam said...

Sky are pulling back, too. Earlier they had an article on the McCanns going to Brussels, with a link at the bottom to post comments (which I did, of course). Now the article is still there, but the comments (and the facility to post them) have gone. Looks like they didn't like the sort of comments the article was attracting!

2345 said...

Police results in Madeleine's, Sarah's, Sohom schoolgirls and Shannon's disappearance speak for themselves.

Police procedures in Britain and expertise of search and rescue teams is to be applauded.

McCanns association with European organisations appears to be no more than a diversionary tactic.

The paedophile who abducted Sarah was known to the Police and the prime suspect, arrested, charged and sentenced. Police check the records of sex offenders as a matter of course in all such cases. This applies to all countries - Police have rapid access to sex offenders files in cases of missing children.

Attempts by Sarah's mother for legal changes allowing public access to records of known sex offenders was unsuccessful. The Police viewed the current system of monitoring to be adequate. Police also have to consider the safety of innocent people; a man suffered a vigilante attack because he had the same name as a sex offender whose details were released.

The Portuguese Police responded as efficiently as British Police in parallel cases. In Shannon's case, the profile given by the police was spot on, the result of years of experience. PJ's suspicions in Madeleine's case were shown to be spot on, again the result of years of experience.

I see no need for Amber Alert given Police expertize in search and rescue in ALL European countries. Let those that know the job get on with it, without unnecessary hindrance.

ratonthebeam said...

BTW sorry if this is old news - but it looks like the Shannon Matthews case has turned nasty....

link here...

Anonymous said...

So there can be no misquoting or mix-ups, the following is a post I just posted on the Pro blog (I think it's still there but as usual, will probably be deleted soon). As you can see, Calcite51 and DianeH are now accusing me of being "Daisy". It's not that I take myself super-seriously or anything, but a lot of people have been accusing me of having multiple ID's lately (as always happens on the net!) so I thought I'd cover myself this time and show people on this blog EXACTLY what I posted on THEIR blog before it gets deleted. Thanks.


To DianeH and Calcite51,

Sorry, but you are letting paranoia get the better of you.

This is easy to do on the net as we are all but words on a screen.

For what it's worth though, I am Bianca and have only ever been Bianca since the DE days. I briefly logged on once as "Belinda" after I got banned (at DE), but used the same avatar and made it obvious to everyone who I was. I knew I'd be reported and banned again by the same obnoxious Pro's that did it the first time, as it was so obvious I was really Bianca. This is exactly what happened (I was banned again) but I didn't mind, as there were only a few more points I wanted to make, and wanted people to know it was Bianca making them.

As for "Daisy", I don't have a clue who she/he really is, and usually only get to her posts after they have been deleted on the Anti Blog. To be honest, I don't even really know what her views are, because I rarely get to read them!

As to my views, I think you will find me pretty consistent. I despise the McCanns for their child neglect, but have always been reluctant to label them killers, even though I find much of their behaviour suspicious. You can look back over my posts from day one (at DE), and while you will see me openly speculating on a variety of theories, I always end by saying things like "but I am not sure", or "who really knows", as this is my genuine view. I have very high standards when it comes to child safety, and I am strident and unforgiving in them (and always will be). The unbelievable slackness of the McCanns is why I so strongly resent them, however, I am not sure they killed Maddy (even accidentally).

This cloak and dagger internet stuff is not new to me though. According to a recent post by 2345 I am "Bianca, a poster from Portugal (??), who became Canadian (how do you "become" Canadian?), and turned on the PJ"!! Now, if 2345 can come up with THAT (completely bizarre) identity, then God knows what others will come up with!

See you later

Wizard said...

The McCanns are off to Brussels today in the link below Kate doesn’t look too frail to me and considering what Clarence has told us should she pulling a large suitcase. I see Gerry doesn’t bother to help out.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,, ... 47,00.html

eurekamano said...

Hi, a press release from the Fed. for Missing and Sexually Exploited Children website. Notice the hot line number (same as claimed reserved for Team McCann, very misleading) and the date.

The European Federation for Missing and Sexually Exploited Children welcomes
“116 000” as the European telephone number for missing children
Brussels, 20 December 2006 - The European Federation for Missing and Sexually Exploited
Children welcomes today’s decision of the Extraordinary Communications Committee,
reserving “116 000” as the European telephone number for missing children. The European
Commission initiated this number as an example of services of social importance in its
decision “on reserving the national number range beginning with ‘116’ for harmonised
numbers for harmonised services of social value”. The European number for missing
children constitutes a major step towards strengthening the assistance offered by
emergency hotlines across Europe in cases of disappearances of minors.

Somebody should email them about the possible duplication of funding and resources. Sorry if it's been covered already.

marga said...

ratonthebeam said...
BTW sorry if this is old news - but it looks like the Shannon Matthews case has turned nasty....

link here...

Wednesday, 9 April 2008 17:01:00 o'clock BST


Can you imagine the leaflets the police have to create if the Mc Canns' destiny will be similar?

2345 said...


Link please - "The McCanns status will not be lifted until a trial occurs".

A way off yet then - Prosecutor ordered PJ to spend two months in Britain requestioning McCanns, interviewing CM for his involvement, numerous independent witnesses and Tapas Group.

So, it will take PJ two months to will need to return to interview everyone to obtain statements for Court. This will take until at least mid-end of June. Prosecutor will then examine the lost list of statements and set a date for the Hearing.

The trial will not take place until July at the earliest - could be longer as PJ have yet to have their request for McCanns possessions fulfilled, computer, diary and cuddle cat. PJ wanted to examine these at same time as Murat's, his has been checked and returned.

If forensics on cuddle cat are as delayed at those from apartment and wheel well, it could take until the Autumn for the Prosecutor to have all the evidence and statements required to proceed to Court.

This is good news; the Prosecutor has ruled there is a case to answer and continually ruled PJ to continue. He wouldn't have wasted thousands of man hours and multi million euros if there was no case ... he would have closed it 7 or 8 months ago.

Whether or not arguido status is lifted after the long awaited Trial will depend on Court's judgement of dossier of evidence presented. It's high time both police forces had their day in Court; their work in this case has been highly commendable.

ratonthebeam said...


The addy is forms@childfocus.org. I would be most interested to find out who this phone number actually "belongs" to - the Federation (c 2006) or the McCanns (c 2008).

If it is the first, then the enormity of such a public lie is just astonishing.

2345 said...

typo - para 3 should read 'long list' list not 'lost' list - Freudian ??? !!!

Viv & Rat Are Plonkers said...

Cripes Rat you are fast!

Did you enjoy your skiing holiday in Alanya on the beach?

2345 said...


More astonishing that FBI assisting prime suspects without PJ's authority - examining CCTV footage ??? !!!

Porkie pies in this case have no bounds where using and abusing professional reputations are concerned.

ratonthebeam said...

Will Gerry and Kate be doing the 20km charity run for Child Focus on International Missing Children's Day?

That's 25th April, BTW. Strange there has been no publicity to speak of over that one....

Viv & Rat Are Plonkers said...

What a load of lazy hypocritical wasters you lot are.

eurekamano get off you fat lazy arse and try do something to help instead of putting your lame ignorant rants up on the internet and embarrassing yourself and your family.

Viv loved your photo on Supertrolls, it is just how I imagined you would look.

Have you got any beauty tips?

Do you use plug in air fresheners?

ratonthebeam said...

No, I did not. My heart has been too badly broken over Gerry knocking me back in my youth :-(

Wizard said...

Just been reading a commentator on 3As he was comparing the spin from Team McCann and the last days of the German Reich. As the soviet army surrounded Berlin the spin and propaganda from Goebbels reached fever pitch……a few days later the Germans capitulated.

Storm Alert - The spin in this case will reach hurricane force very soon !

ratonthebeam said...

I preferred Comical Ali, actually!

Off to make the tea, will try and look in later.

lorraine said...

Brussels, 20 December 2006 - The European Federation for Missing and Sexually Exploited Children welcomes today’s decision of the Extraordinary Communications Committee, reserving "116 000" as the European telephone number for missing children. The European Commission initiated this number as an example of services of social importance in its decision "on reserving the national number range beginning with ‘116’ for harmonised numbers for harmonised services of social value". The European number for missing children constitutes a major step towards strengthening the assistance offered by emergency hotlines across Europe in cases of disappearances of minors.

The development of a European telephone number for missing children that can be dialled anywhere in Europe has been on top of the agenda of the Federation since 2005. Such a harmonised telephone number is crucial for a variety of reasons:

* The phenomena of missing and sexually exploited children is by definition cross border. Victims and witnesses must have a number at their disposal, which can be used internationally. When losing a child, recognising a child that has been reported missing, etc. one will soon be able to dial 116 000 anywhere in Europe.

* Parents, children, teachers or siblings confronted with the disappearance of a child are submerged with a feeling of great distress and panic. At such occasion, it is crucial for them to have a short and easily memorable number that can provide them with support wherever they are in Europe.

* In cases of cross border disappearance of a child, one single international poster campaign can now more easily be distributed across the border, with reference to the European number. This will clearly and demonstrably advance the search actions organised by civil society organisations in cases of international disappearances.

* The European hotline number for missing children will allow the launch of international awareness raising and promotional campaigns, thus greatly facilitating this costly and time-consuming work of NGOs operating emergency lines. (1)

The European number will be operated nationally in the different countries of the EU, by existing emergency hotlines for missing children. Organisations managing such a hotline will have to address a request for using the number to their National Regulatory Authorities. By providing support to victims on the one hand, and assisting the judicial and law enforcement authorities in charge of the investigation on the other, these organisations play a crucial role in combating the aforementioned phenomena.

eurekamano said...

Hi 2345
Here's the link to 3A thread re arguido status as requested.

lorraine said...

Sorry didn't realise it had already been posted, Duh

2345 said...


Gentleman is not the word that comes to mind when watching Gerry's behaviour. I'm still sickened by the photo's of Kate's injuries on 3 A's, cut above her swollen eye, grip mark bruising on upper arms and wrists.

He's displayed the charm and consideration of a chauvinist pig throughout.

2345 said...


Thanks for the link.

marga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dolores said...

Thanks for the information.
I hope the Mc's are seriously questioned about this number, that they are claiming is their hotline number.

Viv & Rat Are Plonkers said...

Rat why don't you ask Gerry? After all didn't you say you knew him in one of your ignorant rabid rants against a couple that have had a child abducted?

By the way what did your college think of your internet excursions to this filthy blog?

I was wondering, perhaps they may want to use you and your internet etiquette on their prospectus?

Ever heard of this song? It could have been written for you and your vile mate Viv (Felicity) After all you are both glutty, flubby and vile.

It's OK you don't have to thank me I am glad I could help.

"Live as if someone is always watching you"

Live as if someone is always watching you
In all you do
Live as if someone
Is always watching you

Eventually you will find
That both of you will need to come to some compromise
Maybe one or the other could agree
To sleep at different times
Or go off alone
Or at least shut their eye

Shut your eye off once in a while
Shut your eye off once in a while

So at least one of us
Can with some conviction say :

I am not of this glutty room
Or of this flubby body

Wizard said...

Hi Lorraine, I'm lost this 116 000number - if you dial it, it's not recognised so who are you saying is using it.

Apologies in advance if I have misunderstood.

2345 said...

Notice McCanns defence team are back on charm offensive !!!

Birds of a feather .....know one and you know them all.

Viv & Rat Are Plonkers said...

2345 are you for real, or are you too suffering from some kind of mental illness?

In fact I am wondering (and I know others are too) If this blog is specifically for people who are suffering varying degress of mental instability?

Is that a self help link to sociopathy on the home page of this blog, or is it a guide on how to become one?

What a really weird insane collection of people you are.

2345 appears right off of his/her chump!

Gina said...

Bianca, there is no point trying to explain who you are, you will never convince those who do not want to listen to anything. As long as you know who you are that is all that matters. If you have posted on the pros site I am guessing because I do not read it anymore, that they will find something to criticise you for. You like me are on the fence with regards the disappearance of Madeleine, but we have committed the crime in the eyes of the pros of criticising the McCanns, that is not acceptable to them so that makes you an anti in there eyes. Anybody who dares to bring up the neglect issue, which they do not want to be reminded of is also targeted. Well I will never move my opinion on that one, I still think the whole lot of them should be charged with neglect, they all left their kids etc etc etc. what else they may have done we are still waiting to find out. So chill honey, it is not worth the effort, honestly ;-)

lorraine said...

Hi Wizard
Missing Children Europa

Missing Children - 116 000, European helpline telephone number

Justice, Freedom and Security 13/02/2007

A European emergency helpline for missing children is being set up. The telephone number - 116 000 - will allow citizens to notify, free of charge, the authorities that a child is missing. The Member States are being asked to put in place this important initiative which is in favour of children's human rights. Emergency help lines exist in many Member States but at present each country has a different number. The development of a help line number for missing children which can be used from anywhere in Europe will allow for efficient European harmonisation and the more rapid launch of a search.

Mccannfiles state it was initiated in 2006 and launched by the European Comission in feb 2007. Not much use if it doesn't answer is it.

Wizard said...

Hi Rat,
When you return from tea how did you post the link on your 17:01 post? I'm very impressed and would like to be able to do it.

hope4truth said...

Hello All

Just reading back hope you have all had a good day???

I will be off shortly had some new furniture delivered so can finaly organise my bedroom....

Someone mentioned a run for missing children earlier where is this???


Ana said...


I can confirm the information ,I have just heard on "RTPN Channel".It was a report by Sandra Felgueiras.
Quote:"The McCanns status as suspects will not be lifted until a trial occurs".

Wizard said...

Ah Lorraine, I see where you're coming from now. Thanks for info.

Wizard said...

Ana, this sound positive.

marga said...

Wizard said...
The McCanns are off to Brussels today in the link below Kate doesn’t look too frail to me and considering what Clarence has told us should she pulling a large suitcase. I see Gerry doesn’t bother to help out.



Is this man an educated doctor?
In my country ladies always come first.

What a gentleman! WoW!

not a great loss.. LOL

Ana said...

Hi Wizard,

Yes,Wizard PJ does not accept any negotiation with the McCanns!

Di said...

Just looking in.

Can someone call an Ambulance troll is in desperate need of help!!

Oh wait....

I will firstly ring Sky News

Gordon Brown

The papers

Set up a Web site

Contact Celebs

Organize a fighting fund

Oh sorry where was I Troll who!!!!!

Wizard said...

The Guardian have just place online, within the last hour, a very selective time line regarding the McCann case. It would appear the presses bias is perhaps beginning to turn.

Viv & Rat Are Plonkers said...

Hello Ana/Alsabella

How is your love life?

marga said...

Thanks, Ana.

Good news. Sandra Felgueiras continues to be a pain in their ass, I believe.

Wizard said...

Press are gearing up Daily Telegraph just published time line 1hou 16mins ago.

Viv & Rat Are Plonkers said...

Wizard do you even know what you meant by that last comment of yours?

It's just a time line duh!

marga said...


can you believe Mr Gerry is for real? Did you see the picture in the sky link ?

Our Portuguese men diffrent. Aren't they? Can you imagine our Cristôvão or Amaral entering a place like he did and not helping a lady?

Ana said...

Sorry,have to say, but you are all wrong the number reserved by the McCann’s is 116 000 000 and not 116 000 because this was already reserved last year...And I found this (satire):
McCann’s AMBAR ALERT number-116 000 000

If you want to go out, dinner with friends and drink some wine, go to a cinema but you have kids and no money for hire babysitting services, then do us we suggest:

1-Bring your kids home from the crèche or school
2-Give them a good bath
3-Put them in the table dinner and give them a good meal and not forget the medication if they need it(only if they are sick), this is very important!
4-Time to bed now, you can read them a story of kings and princesses, so they can sleep all night long peacefully.
5-Now, memorize the McCann’s AMBAR ALERT number in your head or write it in your hand. Note: you are not supposed to wear watches or use MOBILES when you are going out!
6-Go now, if they had disappeared when you comeback, you know what to do:
Call McCann’s AMBAR ALERT number immediately!!! Fast and easy!!!

To the "thing",

NOTE: this is exactly what responsible parents MUST NOT DO!!!If you do the above you will be charged. NEGLECT IS A CRIME!!!

Ana said...


Not surprised at all, the man is always: me me me me me and then me again !!!

Viv & Rat Are Plonkers said...

Ana would you like the link to a good psychiatrist?

Link For Mentally Challanged Ana

marga said...

They travelled to Brussels but let the telegraph article..just in case..

April 8

...They say they will consider the proposal


April 9

It is said the McCanns status as suspects will not be lifted until a trial occurs

April 10

Mc Canns are not welcomed in Brussels. Maneken Piss showed them people's discontent. ....

Have to cook dinner otherwise I could continue writing the script...


Ana said...

Bye Marga, see you later :)

Viv & Rat Are Plonkers said...

Bye Ana/Alsabella run along now, you must not spend too much time on the net, or you will get into trouble.

Viv & Rat Are Plonkers said...

Marga your last post was a lot of rubbish.
(Just a friendly pointer x)

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

I just went on the other blog and saw your answer to mine - thanks for the detailed explanation.
Obviously everything has to be properly investigated with a fine tooth comb in this case before any charges can be brought. It just seems that this couple are going to desperate lengths and taking unfair advantage of their lofty position to cock a snoop at the law!

nancy said...

Just read that the police are sending out leaflets in Shannon Matthews' neighbourhood warning people not to take things into their own hands - in other words no vigilante behaviour! I can imagine the neighbours are extremely angry at being taken in by this family after all the help they gave them and money donated! It seems you can trust no one these days!! What is the world coming to!!

nancy said...

Has anyone heard any up to date news of the tapas 7 interrogations?

ratonthebeam said...

Hi Wizard, just looking in briefly before I am off again. To make a link you do this -

{a href = "http://www.yourwebsitehere.com"} blue text {/a}

only replace the {} with angle brackets <>

You can preview it and test it to make sure it works before finally posting.

See you all later!

nancy said...

Very quiet on here - I feel as if I'm in cyberspace on my own!

Off to listen to watch Corrie!!!

Back later!

BasicTruthForMaddie said...

Good evening everyone,

The EU is a place where you get cheap publicity.

Other than that is a big undemocratic institution.

I wouldn't worry much about G & K going, just shows how desperate & scared they are.

Di said...

Good evening

Love your avatar by the way...

As Nancy said very quiet on here!!

Where is everyone?

BasicTruthForMaddie said...

Hi di

Glad you like my little babe.

It is very quiet here. They may be watching TV.

cu later

Di said...

Footy me thinks..LOL

Same as hubby..

marga said...


Here are some photos of the (not) so fragile mother.
The Pink is also by them.

I'm eager to see how they will cope with the Press Conference Crossfire.
Maybe their PR is going to speak for them?!
Or will they say they cannot answer due to the arguido status?

hope4truth said...

Hello Di and Basic

It is quiet tonight...

I am really disapointed about Shannons Mum those poor children how must they be feeling? I hope every one of them is being looked after as well as Shannon it is the least they deserve.

Not sure about bail being refused but If I was Karen I would not want to face my neighbours at the moment. Inocent until proven guilty but it dont look good...


Di said...

Hi Hope

I agree, the Police are obviously worried that people will take things into their own hands on the estate where they live.

I have also read that Shannon is very happy with her foster mum, so let us hope she is left there whilst this sorry case continues.

I feel there is more to come from this yet.

BasicTruthForMaddie said...

@ marga

Thanks for the 3A link marga.

psychotic yes

flagile nope

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