10 Apr 2008

WHY PRISON FOR KAREN AND NOT KATE?

Hi All, I see we do have official news reports confirming Tanner and O'Brien were subjected to 10 hour grilling. Obviously not the usual case of the police simply getting their evidence, more a case of them being cross examined upon it.

Whilst I can understand the legal reasons why Karen has been promptly charged with her own child neglect and remanded in custody and Kate has not (because there is a lot more than that still being investigated) , it is clear from reading comments on the web, see the comments below the article also, and my own blog there is growing public resentment at the apparent disparity in treatment of these two women from very different social backgrounds.

There is no doubt Kate and Gerry McCann have had an awful of help in seeking to defend themselves, not available to Karen, but I would just say this, has this actually convinced the public they are innocent and perhaps, more importantly, has it convinced the Police of their innocence? Clearly not, their legal status as arguidos remain and reports emanating from Portugal clearly indicate the only way they will ever get rid of this status is after they have been tried in a court of law.

There is no doubt the McCanns will be charged and this case would not be brought if it was considered that it was likely the McCanns are going to secure an acquittal. Having said that, Portuguese and British authorities have clearly never been under any illusions as to just how much backing the McCanns have and how hard they intend to face the case against them. As Gerry himself said, "we will fight this every step of the way". That is what they are currently doing in Brussels, it is all part of his campaign.

Euro MPs would have to look at the McCanns proposals in an unbiased way, but he figures if they get approved, that will signify approval of him and Kate. Just like he figured extracting the libel settlement from the Daily Express would do. To quote him again, (he does make quite a few Freudian slips or arrogant clues) "we are conducting an aggressive and high risk strategy". It is a very high risk strategy to have taken money from the Daily Express because as he will well know, that is fraud, but he likes to play poker, the potential gains outweigh the risks.

Whether the Daily Express actually settled the claim because they could not prove the truth of their articles i.e. they killed Madeleine etc without access to the police evidence (which of course they could not have), or whether they did it in a contemptuous way, knowing the money they will eventually make, I am not certain. I certainly think the latter.

Maybe also another thing we have learned is the Daily Express also printed what appeared to be scurrilous accusations against Karen, when we did not know anything of the police case against her, but in fact they did turn out to be true.

I have been criticised (albeit by people who even criticise my parrot!) for refusing to suggest Karen was guilty based on these reports. I resent that criticism. It is not open to anyone in my view to simply accuse anyone of a serious criminal offence prior to any official details of them being either "prime police suspects" or having actually been charged.

I always suspected the McCanns but I never once wrote anything at all on the internet to that effect until October 2007 on the Daily Express, AFTER they were made police suspects and details of why, the forensic evidence, were made public.

That is a matter of behaving responsibly and lawfully and not libelling people, you simply cannot just go around pointing the finger at people when the police are not.

How many wicked people accused Mr and Mrs Cortez and were proved to be wrong? This is why I know I am right in saying, every time, until the POLICE let us know they did something, do not accuse people. It is wrong and it is unlawful.

Karen was entitled to the benefit of the doubt, before we knew, just the same as Kate and Gerry were. We may not like their campaign but they are in it to defend themselves. This blog will continue to oppose their campaign, flag up the insidious and disingenuous nature of it, and support justice for little Madeleine McCann. Once the McCanns are charged however, far greater restraint will have to be shown and it will be. I would ask for the same in Karen's case given she is charged and in custody and is entitled to a fair trial. She is already being punished, leave her alone and remember what she did, although extremely serious, pales into almost insignificance by comparison to what Kate and Gerry did who may well have motivated and inspired a family of clearly far lower intellect and means by their wicked behaviour.

Viv x



Police continue to quiz McCann friends

Portuguese detectives are still attending police interviews with friends of Kate and Gerry McCann.
The so-called Tapas Seven are the group who ate with the McCanns on the night their four-year-old daughter Madeleine went missing.
Police said that witnesses and Portuguese detectives had arrived at Leicestershire Constabulary's force headquarters in Enderby to be re-interviewed about the dissaperience of Madeliene from an apartment in the Portuguese holiday resort of Praia da Luz on May 3 last year.
It is thought 34-year-old Fiona and 41-year-old David Payne from Leicester are the latest witnesses to be questioned.
The interviews are being conducted by British officers as a three-man team of Portuguese detectives, led by Paulo Rebelo, sit in.
On Tuesday, Jane Tanner, 37, and her partner, 36-year-old Russell O'Brien, were quizzed for about ten hours.
But sources said they were allowed a number of breaks and that the interviews had given them the chance to put their point of view across "strongly".
Meanwhile, Mr and Mrs McCann are preparing to travel to Brussels where they plan to lobby MEPs for the introduction of a child alert system that is used in the US in cases where children are victims of a suspected abduction.
The couple will give a presentation on the importance of greater co-ordination between European countries when a child is abducted.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: "For Kate and Gerry this is an important opportunity to ensure better co-ordination in Europe when a child goes missing to make sure that no other family goes through the anguish that they are continuing to endure."
The McCanns want to launch a dedicated information hotline that will be available across Europe for when police suspect a child has been taken.
Mrs McCann, 40, and 39-year-old Mr McCann, and their team, have already reserved the number - 116 000 - but it has yet to go live.
© Independent Television News Limited 2008. All rights reserved.
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Your comments (15)
15 people have commented so far. Tell us what you think below.
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Apr 9, 20:17
Dawn from Liverpool says:
As a working class, married mum of two, if i left my children alone on holiday, I would be in prison, and my kids in care. How is this right? Is it because i'm not classed as a professional.The person i feel sorry for is little Maddie.
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Apr 9, 19:46
onlooker from From Above says:
Never mind if this happened in Britian, it is also illegal to leave children unattened under a certain age in Portugal why has this not been pursued? We all know the reason!!
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Apr 9, 19:36
Raquel from Peterborough says:
Were the parents of Maddie responsible enough to leave their children unattended ?I think so and I sincerely hope that Maddie is still alive and well but I personally condenm the parents who were inresponsable and totally disregard the children wellbeing and their safety .You are a good parent if you spend time with your children , why be a parent when you don't want to be one and be responsible for it ?Soon you are a parent you lose some things like , spending time with your friends dinner out ,disco or even bingo , you can't leave your children alone .I don't feel sympathy for them .
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Apr 9, 18:23
bintbabe from merseyside says:
disgusting that they can still get press attention even though they put their bellies before their childrenother children get taken into care under these circumstances but obviously not if they are from middle class parents
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Apr 9, 18:22
Peter from Leicester says:
I note that Kate & Jerry are preparing to cut and run yet again!. What is the saying? When the going gets tough the tough get going. No such luxury for Karen Mathews, wrong side of the tracks I suppose.

511 comments:

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2345 said...

nancy,

It's not so much a question of what's 'in it', rather McCanns close associations Brown and politicians. Gerry phoned government contacts and media long before the police on 3 May. TTW$'s thread on 3 A's provides all the connections, business and NHS wise. Also a thread on the person who flew out in a hurry, ? Brown's brother who has connections with Comare, same as Gerry. Mason connections - PFI information gives you all the background - it's quite an eye opener.

CM worked in the Home Office, top civil servant, taken out to front media campaign. Brown's wife has connections to PR company used at the beginning ... list goes on and on. Why did CM leave Home Office, is it temporary. Never before has a top civil servant, media manager fronted a PR campaign on behalf of prime suspects in their daughter's death and disappearance - (google) articles detail forensic finds proving no abduction.

I recommend a read on 3 A's ... it's very enlightening. Incredible amount of research has been undertaken.

Wizard said...

Claudia, Kate should return to Portugal for the reconstruction but do you think she will? I believe it is quite likely after the reconstruction she could be arrested and she will be very aware of this, hence her reluctance to confirm her intentions.

2345 said...

nancy,

I'll find and paste article on book by Mr Paulo Cristoava, ex PJ officer about level of Government interference in the case, frustrations caused. Also recorded in criminal profiler's thesis, proving abduction to be an impossibility. Government's had a lot of coverage in Portugal.

Cláudia said...

I removed it because I considered it threatning towards a poster and her/his children. Would you like any of us reminding that you could lose one of your 6 children? And you could. Especially if you leave them alone. Get a grip, woman. I said before that that would be my last post to you, but I had to explain this. Oh, and by the way, there are many ways a parent could lose a child. Not all have the same implications.

Cláudia said...

2345, the name is Paulo Pereira Cristóvão. And yes, I've read the book.

Cláudia said...

Wizard, no, I don't think she will.
But it will be equally interesting, whether they return here or not.

Wizard said...

Assassin, I support Madeleine’s cause not her parents, the two causes are not the same. You and I have clearly different agendas - so please do not pretend to be naïve.

Ana said...

Hi everyone,

I found the article concerning the McCanns in the Telecinco Channel website and I have to say that is another spin article with the purpose to disrupt the ongoing investigation. This was not linked by PJ; this certainly was linked by team McCann.
It is a long article and maybe our Spanish posters could translate the important paragraphs for us...
The link is:
http://www.telecinco.es/elprogramadeanarosa/detail/detail2589.shtml

Cláudia said...

I don't care if you attack me or not, Assassin. Haven't you understood that yet? This is not about me. And it is not about you either. But please, don't bring children from posters to this. It's not fair and even you should see that. I didn't see Wizard bringing up this subject. Did you? And let's remember that that we know of, none of this posters are arguidos, right?

P.S: How do you know, Assassin? How do you know if I'm in that position or not? How do you know? You know nothing.

assassin said...

No naivety Wizard, I asked you a genuine question.

I can respect that you choose not to support gerry & Kate. Different opinion is healthy.

However, to suggest there is something lacking or unusual about Kate's behaviour if she is fragile without any understanding of her position becomes removed from reality some, that is all im saying.

It is how people get many wrong ideas throughout this case. They are thinking about how one should behave or how they expect one to behave or look which is abut the individual themselves, not about reality....

Regards

Wizard said...

I do not understand your psychological profile of Kate’s state of mind. Please could you clarify.

SwedishMum said...

Evening all!

I just read the article Isis provided the link to and IF it's true that they left Madeleine screaming the night before she disappeared, then I honestly don't see how anyone can support such a decision.
IF it's true, then I think the concept that they were only being "naïve" should be disposed amongst the garbage.
IF it's true, there's nothing "naïve" about their behaviour at all.
Just plain CRUELTY.

I always believed that the alleged screaming was due to Madeleine waking up, alone and afraid, - but IF this it's true, it's far, far worse.
How can anyone leave a screaming 3-year old in a foreign country?

assassin said...

Claudia, I was clearly not bringing Wizsards children into the debate. He made comment about how Kate looked and inferred it did not fit with what is going on right now.

I asked cos obviously he has some assumption of how she should be and what constitutes being fragile in such circumstances cos his views he posted are based on his assumptions. Nothing bad about asking such a question Claudia.

Absolutely, it is not about anyone in here. It is about the McCanns and Madeleine and of course about justice too, but justice is not done if people are passing judgement on people wiht no idea how people would think, look or behave in such circumstances.

I dont know Claudia, but with respect [and i do mean that!] your views dictate you have not been in that position otherwise you would know better than a lot of the things you post. Said not in nasty fashion at all there btw.

Regards

Cláudia said...

Hello, SM.
Give it up. Nothing will convince certain people that what they did is not normal, responsible parenting. You know, i have to confess that until all this story became public, I had never heard of anyone leaving toddlers alone like that to do have dinner or for similar reasons. We had a case here in Portugal, years ago, of two children (around 7 and 9, I think) that were left alone and locked because their parents wanted to go to the café and didn't want to be bothered. The kids set the house on fire and burnt to death. And the parents did time.

Cláudia said...

I was right, Assassin. You do not know. What you know about me is what I choose to be known. And that is very little, obviously. And you have no idea. At all.

Wizard said...

Hi Swedish Mum

I’ve just reread the Mail article after reading your post. When the Mail says they left her screaming the night before she went missing did they actually mean that when they left the apartment she was screaming inside? If they did mean this it throws a completely different light on their neglect as you point out.

Cláudia said...

Hello, Ana! :-)
How are you?
I've read the link you provided. What's new about it? We've heard it all before. Don't you agree?

assassin said...

Kate appears broken to me Wizard.

In the circs of losing a child you can reach a stage going around on the outside like all is well, looking relatively well too, [albeit i do see the scars on kate, deeply, but that is my opinion:-)]. If you have other children, no matter how hard it is inside, you have to carry on on the outside with as much assemblance as normality as is possible. That is what people see. They dont see the inside. I hope that helps some.

If you are genuinely interested in specific things which could be going on in their heads and why some things appear not as expected or more details, im happy to givce them. I'm not here if its just to mock though. Regards.

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Well, I'm back.

Thanks Cláudia. I've seen the 6o'clock news on SIC. I'm not sure it is the same you were referring to.?!

Cláudia said...

So, we are not allowed to look at Kate and think she doesn't look broken. But other people can claim to know how she feels inside? What the hell?

SwedishMum said...

Hi Claudia and Wizard,

Claudia, that sad tale is awful. And like you I'd actually never heard of such behaviour before the McCanns and their friends entered "my world".

Yes, it does throw a different light on their neglect IMO. And it also makes the statement that Madeleine the day after should have said something like "this is the best holiday ever" a bit less believable.
I know that kids forget and move on. But after an experience like that ... I'm not sure.

Cláudia said...

Hello, Marga.
I have no idea. I forgot to check the 6 o'clock news. Was posting and rereading the translation! :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Cláudia at 17.14 you asked:

I've just checked Sky News and they're saying that three women arrested in Shannon's case have been bailed pending further enquiries. Does that mean they were released?

Yes! Bailed usually means they have been released with conditions set and possibly a set date or dates to report to the police. This is under the threat of paying a financial penalty set by the police as a condition of release if they don't report.

Viv obviously could give a more specific answer.

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

I also read the Pj is going to bring Kate's diary.

She seemed to me a disturbed person.Her diary must have quite interesting piece of reading.

Ana said...

Hello Cláudia,

I am very well, thank you, hope you are fine too:)
I am just wondering here, why the Mail chose to put only the crying story...
I sure is something under that report to come ...

assassin said...

If you've been in any way close to similar circumstances Claudia you can see when people are genuine and are not. Regards.

IE Karen Matthews, never looked genuine. HTH. By the way, not condemning Karen Matthews in that, i have no respect for the abuse metered to those kids at all, but ultimately, she is a very naive and damaged woman in need of a lot of help.

Cláudia said...

SM, i think that very early on CM understood that for the huge majority of the Portuguese people, that bahaviour was as unknown as it was to me. That is why he tried to pull the cultural card. If we believed that, it would be easier for them. However, CM forgot that historically Portuguese people were a bit all over the world and happen to know that leaving toddlers alone is not a cultural thing. I guess he was just doing his job.

Cláudia said...

Thanks, ICTOAN! :-)))
My English legal vocabulary isn't exactly brilliant. That is why I asked because I wasn't sure what it meant! :-)

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

I saw the interview with two European MPs and some of their answers in the press conference.
They also said they will come for the reconstruction but not on May 3rd. They want to be in private.

Cláudia said...

Marga, I hadn't heard that. Honestly, I wouldn't like to read anything written by her. If I could, I would have chosen not to listen to them and not to know anything about them. Too late now, though.

SwedishMum said...

Claudia,

seems like he was partly successful with the cultural card. The main reason I started to post on DE was that I became more and more upset with how some portrayed the PJ and Portugal. And mind you, I've never even been to Portugal.

Cláudia said...

I'm great, Ana. Thanks.
Yes, it's interesting. Not very flattering, is it? Who knows what these people in the newspapers think? The DE paid money (if we are to believe it) for printing certain things but still put HYS on Mccann articles once in a while. Oh well...

assassin said...

"If I could, I would have chosen not to listen to them and not to know anything about them. Too late now, though.
"

with respect Claudia. A view like above is an avoidance of truth. i dont mean by that you have to agree or disagree with what anyone says or what the subject is, but when we shut our eyes or dont want to know something someone is saying or doing - we are avoiding something, and it isnt healthy.

Thats not my personal view btw. I agree with it for sure, but its a clear cut psychiatric view, not wanting to know or see something one does not like or may not like.

Cláudia said...

SM, :-)
That's ok. I've never been to Sweden either! :-) But I once met a great Swedish gentleman who went to lecture at my uni and who was one of the nicest people I've ever met. I just wasn't very impressed when I saw him eat what I think was smoked fish! :-)

Cláudia said...

Assassin, go spend some quality time with your children. Please! :-)
I would rather spend the rest of my life thinking that there are no more like them. Thank you.

SwedishMum said...

Smoked fish is very popular here and there's an excellent reason for that - it tastes really good. I wouldn't reccomend fermented Baltic herring though - that's not for humans.

assassin said...

You mean you dont like what i have to say Claudia cos it doesnt fit with your thinking and you would like me to be quiet and go away:-)

SwedishMum said...

Claudia,
that's supposed to be recommend

Wizard said...

Psychology is something I studied at university and have used extensively in my working life. Firstly, in this particular case it can be difficult to separate the two possible scenarios. When we see the McCanns, are they really keeping busy to take their minds off their daughter’s disappearance or possible death due to an abduction or is all this activity meant to detract from the real thrust of the police investigation to give an appearance of non-culpability.

Both scenarios would call for a period of grieving, however, the second scenario would also call for strength to stage activities to sway public opinion and grieving would have to be deferred. Kate does look well and usually grieving or mental illness does show itself physically. The Mail photograph imo does not show this. We will never agree on which scenario is correct so we will have to agree to disagree.

Cláudia said...

Assassin, I will never agree with you. But honestly, that has no importance whatsoever in the bigger picture. I will never agree with anyone who thinks the McCanns are victims. That's quite simple.
Goodbye now.

Chrissie Nyssen said...

assassin. earlier you wrote that i was a child abuser.

that was a lie.

when you write such lies without proof, it is advisable to be very careful.

it also demonstrates that you have already lost the argument.

Ana said...

well,Cláudia,I guess we have to wait until further news to reach to some conclusions...

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Cláudia,

you are right. I also would like to forget these two do still exist and that had chosen our country to neglect their children.

When I said interesting was not referring to my interest in reading it . For God's sake. I meant to the Pj and trial.

At this moment I do only care about the development of the case and that they are brought to court.

This has become a farce and stinks.

Cláudia said...

I bet it's delicious, SM. But if you don't mind I'll pass! :-) But I think we can agree on the coffee, cappuccino and latte machiatto topic! ;-)

Cláudia said...

Ana and Marga, I agree! :-)

SwedishMum said...

Yes, Claudia, definitely agree re coffee (and I still envy you)

atardi said...

Good evening Marga and all,

Hope everything is ok with you.

marga said...

I also read the Pj is going to bring Kate's diary.

She seemed to me a disturbed person.Her diary must have quite interesting piece of reading.

Thursday, 10 April 2008 18:34:00 o'clock BST

--------------------------------

Marga, or anyone else

When did Kate start writing in her diary? Was it after Madeleine disappeared or had she been writing before?

I remember that Philomena recomended he to write things in a diary.

Nice to read you have the best job in the world also.

assassin said...

That's okay if you want to disagree Wizard. Of course there is a period and various stages of grieving too, hence why their opinions and actions change throughout too, i can personally map those, and have been able to throughout with the mccanns. They all fit succinctly, each change of statement, what they say they will do, cant do, change in accord etc.

I am very very acquainted iwth this stuff too, both with working with individuals and on a personal level. No amount of learning substitutes for experience. The mccanns are even un-understandable on many counts to numerous supposed experts, yet i could explain these things in a flash due to personal experiences and experience.

I am equally very well acquainted with this stuff on a criminal level and when an abduction has been inferred and has not happened, the mccans actions and behaviour in no way fit with people covering up either the murder, manslaughter or accidental death of a child.

I think your reply is somewhat like claudia's, i may be wrong, but it seems geared to shut down any debate at all, that they are, or could indeed be innocent.

Btw, I will add, i initially was horrified and felt awful for them re this, then i jumped on the paranoid wagon and thought guilty too, then i thought a bit harder and realised i was absolutely wrong in my thoughts of guilt. I was falling for the spin, when examined i could destroy it all, with ease. Regards.

Cláudia said...

Hello, Atardi.
I can't answer your question but I guess Auntie Phil would rather have Kate writing than shouting! :-)

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

They as human beings mean nothing to me.

They are arrogant, liars, bad parents and are only concerned with themselves.

They have manipulated everyone except the Pj .
They are going to continue with the farce and their PR is what we call here in PT a "Lambe botas". He is repulsive.(I'm sure u know how to say that in English)

My thoughts go to the PJ and all the people whose priority is Madeleine.

The world is seeing their true colours by now.

Let's hope justice is served.

Wizard said...

Assassin, my 18.51 post was for you. I missed your name off.

Regards - Wizard

Chrissie Nyssen said...

thank you assassin. you just proved my point. this will be my last post to you. i do not care to waste anymore time on a crazy piece of shit.

assassin said...

Thanks Wizard. I saw it and replied above too:-)

Chrissie Nyssen said...

also i apologise to all the other people here for my bad language in my last post. claudia, if you wish to delete it i will understand.

Cláudia said...

I couldn't, ultraviolet. I used that kind of language before with another poster so I wouldnt be fair! lolol

Ana said...

Is the British press turning?


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories ... -20378868/
“madeleine McCann left crying in bedroom the night before she went missing...”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... 026680.ece
“ where were you mummy?”

LittleGreyCell said...

Assassin,

Nobody is "destroying" Kate and Gerry by talking about them.

Madeleine was, or is at this very moment, being destroyed as a result of Kate and Gerry's actions.

Sean and Amelie MAY be in danger themselves: through being neglected in the way they were on holiday, or worse.

Kate and Gerry destroyed their own lives by choosing to party with their friends in a location so far away from their small children that they couldn't be seen or heard.

Freedom of speech is not responsible for the position the McCanns find themselves in. This is due entirely to their own choices.

You cannot expect people not to discuss the biggest mystery of our times in case it upsets a couple of people who behaved in a negligent way to their own children.

Kate and Gerry should have thought of the MANY ramifications of their parenting style before electing to leave their kids alone night after night.

Cláudia said...

Ana, maybe the revenge is under way?

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Atardi,

that part the Pj is interested in is before Madeleine's disapearance.


Yes, Atardi, it was also a good surprise to me to know we are colleagues. :-)

Wizard said...

Assassin,

“The individuality of the individual is what makes us human.” Imo it would be wrong to draw from your own experiences and transfer them onto the McCanns behaviour. If you start with a wrong premise you will not be able to arrive at an accurate conclusion.

atardi said...

Last post must be her instead of he.

Here it goes again.

Good evening Marga and all,

Hope everything is ok with you.

marga said...

I also read the Pj is going to bring Kate's diary.

She seemed to me a disturbed person.Her diary must have quite interesting piece of reading.

Thursday, 10 April 2008 18:34:00 o'clock BST

--------------------------------

Marga, or anyone else

When did Kate started writing in her diary? Was it after Madeleine disappeared or had she been writing before?

I remember that Philomena recomended her to write things in a diary.

Nice to read you have the best job in the world also.

Ana said...

I hope so,Cláudia,but i have my doubts!

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Ultraviolet,

sometimes even the saints had bad manners!

LittleGreyCell said...

Take a look at Kate as she "smiles as she heads off to Brussels":-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=558574&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Does she look fragile on the inside?

Are the papers turning?

Answers on a tapas menu...

Cláudia said...

Ana, I'm sure you know the power of the press. They create idols and they also destroy them in a blink of an eye.

Ana said...

I know,Cláudia but we have seen this before, and then ...

Chrissie Nyssen said...

i think that when one is reduced to throwing insults and lies instead of a polite question or reply, then the argument is already lost. even if the other person "is" in the wrong. this is why i do not visit any other blogs anymore. i thought the other blogs would be about madeleine, but i could not understand what they were about at all! so i just gave up with them.

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Cláudia,

Ana Gomes should be at home doing the chores. She is so silly..

There are some people that can sell their soul to the devil. What a world!

atardi said...

Hi Cláudia,

You are doing a great job.
Hope your translations are done.

I think Kate received a clearly message.

Don't talk about your feelings.Just write about it

Cláudia said...

Ana, I know what you mean.

Marga, I agree.

Atardi, translations done. For today! :-)

Chrissie Nyssen said...

except atardi, one should never write what one would not care for another person to read!

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Ultraviolet,
du hast Recht. Einige Leute hier sind überhaupt nicht echt. Du hast schon bemerkt das es nicht um das kleine Mädchen geht. Es geht um die Eltern. Sie werden alles tun, um Gefängnis zu vermeiden.

SwedishMum said...

Thanks for links Ana.

Seems like CM (and "friend") isn't denying that Madeleine said something to that effect at breakfast. (Though it doesn't seem to be certain that Madeleine was crying when they left.)

If she said that at breakfast I wonder if she would actually say "this is the best holiday ever" (or something like that) just a few hours later.

Cláudia said...

Marga und Atardi, wie gut es ist ein bisschen Deutsch zu sprechen. Und Sie sind beide richtig.

Sorry, guys, but sometimes it feels good to speak a little German too! :-)

Chrissie Nyssen said...

Marga, sei vorsichtig! Wir sind schon in Schwierigkeiten genug! Wir werden dafür gezüchtigt werden, die englische Sprache nicht zu benutzen! :-)

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

See you all(not) later.

Cláudia,
going out for dinner. My turn!

jinhos

SwedishMum said...

Claudia,

Du bist in Deutschland geboren, nicht wahr? Ich glaube dass Du so einmal gesagt hast.

(Haven't written in German for years, nice to have a go at it again)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Is the so called breakfast story more spin to "prove" that Madeleine was still alive on May 3rd?

Chrissie Nyssen said...

marga, ess' gut!

nancy said...

Kate McCann has at last found her voice - she was just on Channel 4 news making a speech (yes, without her puppet CM) imploring those attending to vote in favour of their bill! She didn't make any mention of neglect or abandonment of children that could lead to abduction though. She looked her usual wan but well made up self! She's a good actress that's for sure - Hollywood next I should think!

atardi said...

Marga,

That's the reason we are here because we care about children and human beings.

Nice to meet you again colleague.

As you know my English is not so good so it will take time to answer.
And sometimes my posts disappear.So I have to start all over again.

So Kate had been writing before Madeleine disappeared?

Cláudia said...

Ja, SM, ich bin in Deutschland geboren aber ich bin nach Portugal zuruck gekommen als ich 5 Jahre alt war. :-)

Sorry guys. Was just saying I was born in Germany.

Marga, have a nice dinner. :-)

Wizard said...

To leave their apartment on the evening of 2 May with Madeleine screaming (if this is what is meant) is absolutely appalling. To put yourself so cold heartedly before you children is quite unforgivable.

No wonder some people speculate that Madeleine died on the night of 2 May.

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Ultraviolet,

jetzt bin ich etwas verwirrt! Nicht ganz sicher was du damit meinst.Aber ich muss gehen. Vielleicht erklärst du mich das ein anderes mal.

Thanks. I'll will eat Leitão (Ferkel). Sth that tastes delicious here where I live.

Bye!

assassin said...

Absolutely Wizard, im not on a wrong premise, i was initially, others have stayed on it...no transference here mate, im a master of that one and its operations too:-)

Little grey cell, i just typed an enormous reply to you, but it has gone, and im not prepared to do it again at all. Obviously only the voice of mccann guilt is heard in here......

Ana said...

Hiya Swedishmum,

You are welcome :)

He is not denying only because he knows that is the true although I am not sure who told this facts to the press... I don’t trust a bit in those people, none of them .If Madeleine was crying on the night before and still they left her again that night, well these parents don’t deserve to have any children with them any more….

hope4truth said...

Hello All

Not staying long still packing (I would not need half as many clothes if we were off somewhere hot so he had better not complaine tomorrow when we pack the car LOL)...

Any news??? xxx

Cláudia said...

Ana and Marga, the child neglecter adorers from the House of Filth are saying that the trial on the Casa Pia case is being held SECRETELY! lolololol They are really stupid! Everytime there's a session there are more journalists there than witnesses and arguidos combined! lolol

LittleGreyCell said...

ICTOAN,

RE: Breakfast - my thought exactly!

Cláudia said...

Marga, I hate leitão! :-)

SwedishMum said...

Ana, it does put things into a rather harsh perspective. Not a nice one at all.

I'm off now (family and tv calling).
Have a nice evening all!

Chrissie Nyssen said...

marga, enjoy your meal! we will be in trouble from the pros in a moment, because we are only supposed to use english on blogs. or so i have been told on earlier occasions.

Cláudia said...

Have a good evening, Swedish Mum.

LittleGreyCell said...

Assassin,

Didn't see it, I'm afraid. And I'm not responsible in any way for what is edited on this site.

I was going to say earlier, though, that when I was reading the posts between yourself and Claudia, how great it was to have discourse which included both sides of the argument. This is what drew me originally to the DE for my first HYS experience.

But suddenly, this evening, it deteriorated into crazy, offensive accusations.

What's the point?

Ana said...

Cláudia and Marga,

Those things don´t know nothing, they are so idiots as it seems, nothing more nothing less!

Cláudia said...

LGC, you have missed the posts where the creature said we were all child killers. Well, you haven't missed them. I have deleted them. :-)

Chrissie Nyssen said...

no claudia, "you" are the child killer. i am just a child abuser! :-) apparently.

Cláudia said...

The idiotic, thick creatures have no idea that, except for the McCann case, which happened much later, the Casa Pia case was the most publicised case Portugal had ever seen. They would know, though, if they could speak a foreign language. Or if the British press had any interest in foreign children.

hope4truth said...

Hello Again

I have just read the Mails article do you think they will sue the Mail now???

I guess if its true they cant???

Cláudia said...

Ultraviolet, ok then! :-)

Cláudia said...

Hope, of course that if it is true than cannot sue. Which makes me wonder why they haven't sued the nasty, lying Portuguese press...

Chrissie Nyssen said...

i have not yet decided, if that person is very sick, or just an evil piece of (insert your own choice of word here). so it is difficult to know, should i feel pity or contempt.

nancy said...

Claudia -

Thanks for your post and I agree that solicitors have to do their best for their clients, the same as a barrister has to defend someone in Court even if he knows in his heart that his client is guilty! I worked for solcitors in Lincoln's Inn Fields,London, for many years (as a lowly legal secretary I might add) so I know that the client is always right! However, what I was questioning was if the McCanns' Solicitors know there is some government conspiracy to protect them from the law, then surely their solicitors would not want to be seen to be a party to fraud, which is what it would amount to.

hope4truth said...

Hello Claudia

Did not think so...

How are you???

assassin said...

There is no point little grey cell at all. I'm afraid, and im being honest here, i tried to come in here in a friendly tone a long time back re an allegation made, that mode did not work.

I actually had to come in here with a psychological war to be allowed to even post.

that is in past now though as far as im concerned. So i am not having a go at all in saying this.

Im sorry the post was lost, i spent a long time on it and there was no attacks in it whatsoever, just sheer debate and response to your valid posting.

Chrissie Nyssen said...

hope, they said already they would sue tal and qual. then tal and qual went bankrupt. was that before or after the lawsuit, claudia do you know?

assassin said...

I hate to enlighten you some more Claudia, but Casa Pia was never ever mentioned even in the DX until i brought the subject up.

Regards

nancy said...

2345 -

I look forward to reading the extract from Paulo Cristoava if you can locate it - thanks!

Yes, I can see now that as you say it's not what is 'in it' for those mentioned, but the fact that they are all interconnected in some way and helping each other cover up a crime!

As you have shown, there seems to be definitely more going on than meets the eye, but the frustrating thing is that probably at the end of the day, they will all come up smelling of roses!

Ana said...

They don’t even care about Madeleine, only her parents are important, do you think that they would care with Portuguese Children?

assassin said...

Ana, How long has anyone else in here been writing, posting and active in other senses on missing and abused children? Thats Global btw, not local only?

I've got 11 years in a highly active sense behind me and a damn site more behind that in a not so outright sense.

Lets here the history from the rest please? :-)

speak your mind said...

Assasin, I dont care the view of anyyone who wants to comment, I will respond to all, I would welcome someone telling me reasons to doubt the accusations facing the McCanns. Dont you think I would prefer to beleive she was alive somewhere with rich arabs living the life of Reilly I would.But unfortunately I was brought up on the following. If it looks like a duck, Quacks like a duck, its probably a duck.

Cláudia said...

Ana, the Casa Pia case was only ever mentioned in the British press because of the McCann case. They couldn't care less about poor orphan Portuguese children. Look at the impact of the Jersey case. Where is it? Even in the Bristish press? Has it been in newspapers covers for weeks? Remember when the Casa Pia case broke out in Portugal in 2003? Do you remember months and months of newspaper headlines?
As for the Jersy affair, a few articles on Eddie and Keela who are brilliant and priceless (but only when thy're not working in Portugal). If those poor children were at least beautiful, blonde and neglected by their doctor parents, maybe they would be worth it.

atardi said...

Marga, Cláudia, Ultraviolet and SwMum,

I can read German but can't write it.

When Justice will be done to Madeleine. (I really hope it's soon).
The pro's will be saying I didn't know that. Just like people supporting the WWII were saying. They only believe the information they get. And any other one must be a lie.

assassin said...

I agree CTOAN - she was abducted, it looks, walks and quaks that way, but what i asked is why do antis only post on anti blogs. Very very safe behaviour:-)

Regards

Cláudia said...

Ultraviolet, I think it was before being sued! ;-) And you're forgetting about 24 horas, And Sandra Felgueiras, a journalist who has posed some difficult questions...

Cláudia said...

Nancy, I know what you mean. But I think that the solicitors are just trying to do their job. The rest, I believe, is way out of their hands.

Cláudia said...

As someone is curious, I will answer. The reason why I don't post in child neglect adorers blogs is because I don't want to associate myself with that kind of people. Basically, it's the same reason why I don't socialise with people whose moral values i don't agree with. Because i don't want to.

atardi said...

Hope4tuth,

Have you packed everything? Remember the children only think about what they want to wear!

Take some good books with you and everything will be allright.

dolores said...

Madeleine McCann left crying in bedroom the night before she went missing
By Mirror.co.uk 10/04/2008
Madeleine McCann (PA)
Related Articles
Kate and Gerry McCann in bid for Europe-wide child alert hotline
Cops ask Kate & Gerry McCann to do reconstruction on 'Crimewatch'
Kate and Gerry McCann's spokesman questioned by Shannon detectives
Missing Shannon Matthews' mum accused of perverting justice and child neglect
More Top Stories
Have your say on What are you talking about? in our Forums
News picturesRelated Tags
gerry mccann, kate mccann, madeleine mccann


(What's this?)Madeleine McCann asked her mother just hours before her disappearance: "Why didn't you come when we were crying last night?", it was revealed today.

The three-year-old's stark question emerged amid leaked passages from police interviews given by Kate and Gerry McCann directly after their daughter's disappearance in Praia da Luz, Portugal last May.

The couple, who were in Brussels today to launch a bid for a Europe-wide missing child alert system, were angered by the timing of the leak and were convinced it was a "blatant" attempt to smear them.

They called for the Portuguese Justice Ministry to launch an internal investigation into the revelations which would be a serious breach of the country's strict judicial secrecy laws.

Advertisement
One furious friend said: "The minute that you talk about Madeleine crying is the minute that the vultures will pile in, that's why this has been leaked."

Madeleine, who disappeared just days before her fourth birthday, went missing from the McCanns' holiday apartment on the night of May 3 while the couple were eating tapas with friends nearby.

In her first interview with Portuguese detectives, Mrs McCann spoke about a conversation she had with Madeleine just that morning.

"While we were having breakfast, Madeleine said: 'Mum, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?'," she told police.

She added: "Gerry and I talked about it for several minutes and decided to watch over the children more carefully at night."

Friends of the McCanns said tonight that the couple had been "puzzled" by Madeleine's remark at the time as she had not apparently been crying when they called in for regular 20-minute checks from the restaurant across the pool where they dined each night during their holiday.

They said that one of the McCanns' friends Rachael Oldfield, had been in the adjoining flat - on the other side of Madeleine's wall - all evening and had not heard any crying.

The couple also insist Madeleine was not speaking angrily and they did not take it as a reproach. Her reference to "we" is understood to have referred to Madeleine and her younger brother Sean.

Friends said they now believe the comment could even be a clue that an intruder was in the flat on the night of May 2 and briefly disturbed Madeleine and Sean before fleeing.

The Policia Judiciaria interviews were leaked through journalist Nacho Abad, of Spanish television programme Ana Rosa Quintana.

The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "Kate and Gerry have been utterly honest and utterly open with the police and all of their statements from the moment that Madeleine was taken.

"The very fact that the comment from Madeleine is now in the public domain is entirely because they themselves told the police about it at the time.

"It is more than curious that this comment, taken in isolation and out of context, that has been in the police file for some 11 months, should now emerge on the very day that they are in Brussels trying to improve children's welfare and child safety.

"They would be more than interested to know if the Portuguese justice ministry will now demand an internal review of the police investigation to get to the bottom of how this material emerged in the way it has, on the day it has.

"Kate and Gerry have been subjected to leaks and smears from day one and I'm afraid this has all the hallmarks of yet another poor attempt to influence the headlines on the very day that they are seeking to achieve some good in Europe

ICantThinkOfAName said...

More spin??

The Telegraph report of the "crying'
has the following paragraph:

"Friends said they now believe Madeleine’s comment could even be a clue that an intruder was in the flat on the night before her disappearance and that they briefly disturbed her before fleeing."

So if she made "disappeared" on that evening would the restaurant where they were dining have been "like being ing the back garden"?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Sorry typo

last few words should be:

like being in the back garden

nancy said...

Ana -

I will try to go through to the telecinco article on the website you gave me, but I never seem to have much success in finding these things! If I do find it I'll try and decipher as much as I can and get back to you, probably tomorrow!

Wizard said...

Suggestions that the McCanns may sue the Mail - the Sun’s article is very similar. Can’t sue everyone the Mail and the Sun have more money in the kitty than the Express to stand up to them.

Cláudia said...

"Gerry and I talked about it for several minutes and decided to watch over the children more carefully at night."

If this is true, could it get any worse?

Ana said...

Cláudia,

Sorry,I was out for a while :)

Casa Pia is still in the news almost every days and I remember that ours journalists did a great job at the time and still now, it was them who put Casa Pia in the mouth of all Portuguese people, they had made a great journalism investigation.
Remember Cabrita ?

Cláudia said...

Ana, of course I do. In that case, the media did a wonderful job. They shouted everything from the roof tops.

Wizard said...

Claudia, do we know if CM was cutting his throat when Kate was saying all this?

dolores said...

Wizard,
Perhaps The Sun &The Mail will force them to go to court,as I don't see them settling out of court so readily.

Ana said...

Nancy,

Thank you :)

Joe said...

The McCanns will have to sue for a long time unless the case is solved. They have done little to do that apart fro pursue a new career that ill suits then under the circumstances. Would have been better to try and clear their names than go moralising to the EU under an Arguido status that implies that they were involved in the disappearance of their own child. Is it irony or farce for them to be involved in this amber alert at this stage, bearing in mind they have avoided all the official PJ investigation at all costs to date.

docmac said...

Cláudia said...
"Gerry and I talked about it for several minutes and decided to watch over the children more carefully at night."

If this is true, could it get any worse?


Yes, Claudia, it could and it did. The following night they did not even have the deaf Mme Oldfield posted next door!

nancy said...

ICTOAN -

It says it all that this comment from Madeleine has only come out into the open at this stage in the proceedings. How annoyed CM must be at the leak; he only wants us to hear what he spouts - it's alright for him to come out with nonsense stories on a daily basis and involve innocent people in his 'sightings' theories, but heaven help anyone who criticizes the McCanns. This revelation has made me even more determined that the McCanns are grossly neglectful parents. To hear your child say that and not break your heart just shows what a cold hearted pair they are. And as for their friends trying to make people think there may have been an intruder in the children's bedroom on the 2nd May, I think that Madeleine would have definitely given him or her a 'tuppence worth' because she sounds to me to be, or have been, a fairly eloquent child for her age! That's just another cockeyed theory to try and get the McCanns off the hook and assuage their guilt! Every time I hear of how they deserted their little children every evening it makes my blood boil!

I'm off now - see you all tomorrow - good night and God bless!

Cláudia said...

Wizard, if this is true, I don't think CM was still in the picture at that time. Unless you believe the theory that he was there that night. And I'm not a great fan of these wild theories, as you well know.

Cláudia said...

Hi, Doc! I know. You're right. Sadly.

Bye, Nancy.

nancy said...

Just to add something - I don't believe that Rachel Oldfield was in her bedroom all that evening - if you are on holiday and out to enjoy yourself you don't stay indoors! pull the other one!!

Really am off now!

dolores said...

Docmac,
They did have Mrs Fenn.....:)who heard all that went on.

xx D

assassin said...

oh claudia, that is a whole stream of absolutely non offensive, valid debate posts you have deleted there?

WHY?

What are you so scared off?!

What about freedom of speech?

Are you all so dictorial about freedom of speech. Not one offensive comment in any of those posts you have deleted at all!

Chrissie Nyssen said...

for curiosity, i went to visit rosiepops' blog for five minutes to see what was there.

after reading some rubbish about portugal should be kicked out of the eu, i gave up with it again.

i would post on any blog that makes a sensible discussion of this case. but the other blogs are full of rubbish, discussions about pretty avatars, and how evil the portuguese police are.

i do not care to waste my time on such nonsense so i rarely visit the "pro" blog anymore. to be honest, i do not understand it. i thought it would be about madeleine but it is not, it is only about the parents. and i think they have enough publicity already.

Cláudia said...

Assassin, you're boring. :-)

Cláudia said...

Oh, and I'm still laughing at your suggestion to post on your crazy corner! :-) It's like suggesting I cut myself with a razor of alcohol. :-)

docmac said...

Hi Dolores :-)

I love Mrs Fenn!

Cláudia said...

Docmac, we all LOVE Mrs Fenn. I don't know if you had access to footage of her in the UK and in SA, but here in Portugal we had. You should have seen her talking, well, screaming at the journalists to leave her alone. Tough old lady! :-)

Chrissie Nyssen said...

mrs fenn is the old lady who grabbed at a burglar by the ankles. i think she is great. i hope i have the same amount of energy when i am old.

dolores said...

Ultraviolet,
Mrs Fenn, is the very kind lady who also asked Kate at 10.10 if she would like her to call the police,and K said she had already called them.:)

docmac said...

Yep, Claudia and Ultraviolet. Mrs Fenn is one tough cookie. I'd love to see her tearing into a certain group of 'ladies of a certain age'. I think they would poop themselves.

Chrissie Nyssen said...

assassin, you are mad.

to write about a person that you do not even know, that they abuse children, well that is very offensive actually. i cannot believe that even you do not see that.

Wizard said...

According to joana-morais today the pj may have to give up the idea of reconstruction because of the lack of cooperation from witnesses. The pj say todate they have received no replies to their request, sent over a month ago, to the McCanns,T7 and 3 other important witnesses.

The McCanns say they are not available to go to Portugal on 15th and 16th May one of the dates suggested for the reconstruction.

dolores said...

Mrs Fenn is one smart cookie,who knows when not to talk. (the silent witness)

Chrissie Nyssen said...

in what way? please explain this to me. i have never even met sean and amelie mccann.

Cláudia said...

Ultraviolet, please, don't feed the unbalanced poster.

Chrissie Nyssen said...

i do not know with an absolute undoubted certainty that she was abducted. how is this abuse of sean and amelie mccann?

atardi said...

Dolores and Docmac,

So glad Mrs Fenn is in the game. Like the girl that was smoking. But don't forget Wilkins and the family who saw someone carrying a child.

Docmac,
So glad for you that your team won. Don't hate football for 100% because daughter loves it. She plays also. So sometimes I have to be enthoustic. PSV is the team I like. But always enjoy when Groningen or Heerenveen win a a match.

Zijn er mensen die jou nadoen?

dolores said...

Claudia,
I think it's time to push the button :) as Isee someone is enticing an argument and upsetting a poster.

XX D

Cláudia said...

Wizard, were you expecting they started cooperating now? If they wanted to cooperate they would have gotten on a plane the second they heard the PJ wanted them to answer some questions.

Cláudia said...

Dolores, I'm becoming an expert.:-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I see that BBC News 24 are doing "Party Political Broadcasts" on behalf of the McCanns especially on the "crying" story.

dolores said...

Atardi,
Indeed Mr Wilkins, the man who saw Gerry tampering with the shutters.:)
xxD

dolores said...

Claudia
:)

docmac said...

Goedenavond Atardi,

Yes, it was certainly worth the trip :-). I may go again in a couple of weeks!

In antwoord op jou vraag, ek weet nie of dit so is of nie. Ek was onlangs nie baie hier nie.

LittleGreyCell said...

Erm:-

"The couple, who were in Brussels today to launch a bid for a Europe-wide missing child alert system, were angered by the timing of the leak and were convinced it was a "blatant" attempt to smear them."

So they had admitted that Madeleine was actually crying and they went out anyway?

No way.

As ICTOAN suggested earlier, this must be to convince the PJ that Madeleine was alive the next day to remonstrate with them.

In no way would they otherwise admit that they said this to the police, because it obviously demonstrates appalling parenting.

nancy said...

ana -

I managed to get through to the telecinco site; it's about three pages long so I won't repeat it verbatim, but suffice to say that it tells the story as we have heard it from the night Madeleine disappeared. It repeats what has been said today about Madeleine asking her parents why they weren't there when she and the twins were crying, and it also pointed out that Gerry said he had decided to take a seat in the tapas bar where he could see the apartment as he was worried about what Madeleine had said the night before. One thing it did say that I didn't know about was the fact that two workers had been into the apartment two days before Madeleine disappeared to repair the blinds in the apartment and of the windows.Also that the McCanns and their tapas friends always kept the windows and blinds closed! Nothing more to add to what we already know really.

Good night all once again!

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Docmac,

How did you get on with the flights?

What was that strange thing with the football crowd, btw?

(Up the Spurs!)

:)

Chrissie Nyssen said...

assassin, you are completely mad. now you have just stated that "my" children have a child abuser as a parent. perhaps you should think about that. does this now mean that "you" are an abuser of "my" children?

this will really be my last post to you. i cannot understand your twisted logic and i do not intend to waste anymore of my time in trying.

LittleGreyCell said...

Assassin,

Hang on a minute...Sean and Amelie will probably know nothing of the blogs in 2008 when they're older.

What they WILL know are the circumstances of their big sister disappearing - which was brought about (if it turns out to be a highly unlikely abduction) by their parents having left them alone night after night after night on that fateful holiday.

So you REALLY believe they will blame people who write on the internet rather than their own parents who didn't value them sufficiently to stay home and look after them??

Cláudia said...

Insults towards our posters will not be tolerated.

Lmcg said...

Hi Viv, I have not posted on here for a while as I haven't really felt I have anything much of relevance to say. I have been reading your blog with interest though and you and the rest of the bloggers have produced some really thought provoking articles/comments. However after reading todays thread I have felt compelled to post. Congratulations on a great thread by the way. I feel completely disgusted that although Karen Matthews has been, quite rightly, charged with neglect our higher powers and media have at this time totally ignored the one family who have IMO been guilty of the most severe neglect we have publicly seen this century. It makes me sick to my stomach and at the same time this family are seeking yet MORE publicity for the protection of children (or whatever they are seeking; to be honest I am not particulary interested in what they are saying IT MEANS NOTHING). I am sorry if this has all been said before but I have literally just come on to the site and read the thread. Going back to read some comments now. Phew... feels better to have that off my chest!

Lmcg x

Joe said...

I do'nt think the McCanns can be smeared it would not stick IMO, water off a ducks back. Any reputation they have found is of their own making. Getting fame and fortune for gross child neglect, and on the back of their little girl's disappearance Now they have the brazen cheek to patronize the public. Its disgusting and reprehensible.

2345 said...

assassin,

The twins are the victims of parents who are well documented as leaving them and their dearly beloved 3 year old sister without supervision, called neglect, for five consecutive nights in an alien environment. How will the twins feel about this reality ?
They were all left out of eye sight and earshot whilst their parents socialized with their friends.

The Police did not go knocking on twins parents apartment door nearly one year ago ... parents called the police, after they'd first phone political friends and the media, to report the twins beloved sister had been abducted.

The twins mother said in one live interview in defence of neglecting the children "we KNOW what happened and it was't because we left Madeleine alone".

If the twins grow and develop normally within their home environment, they will, as adults make their own deductions about their infamous parents.

The McCanns created the circumstances for themselves and the twins, the McCanns alone are responsible for any effects this has had on the twins to date and the effects on their future.

docmac said...

Hi LGC,

Hope your tum is settled. The flight back was OK thanks. Outbound was a bit nervy for me.

There was a spectator in the Centenary stand (opposite the TV cams) who was dressed rather strangely. He seemed to be dressed in his work overalls and was waving what appeared to be a red cardboard broom. The gentleman beside him had an inflatable sex doll on his lap which seemed to be holding some unfinished knitting. I have no idea what point these two were trying to make, but it caused much hilarity in the ground, especially when it transpired that the first aforementioned fan had the name 'McSpamm' on the back of his strip.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

Keep missing you! If we don't coincide later, I wish you a fab holiday!

X

docmac said...

Lmcg

Hello, lovely to see you here. Your points are powerfully made and I agree 100%.

Cláudia said...

Lmcg, welcome! Long time no see! :-)

atardi said...

Docmac,

Welk team vind je goed hier? Ik bedoel in Nederland. Als jij mijn dochter's team wil zien dan moet je Viv mijn e-mail adres vragen.

Er waren enkele mails gericht tot Viv met jouw naam die niet leuk waren. Waren het echt jouw mails?

LittleGreyCell said...

Docmac,

Oh, I'm very well, ta. Feeling really healthy actually, but then I'm following the rules (almost) to the letter, so shouldn't expect to feel bad!

Glad at least one of your flights was OK. I feel the same about being at 30,000 ft, and in fact just today was endeavouring to talk one of my friends out of applying to be flight crew! I have thought in the past about a course for reluctant fliers, but have never got around to it. So I can't be that reluctant. (Nor can you be, when you come to think of it!)

Goodness, that is strange. Imagine going to a football match with unfinished knitting.

:)

2345 said...

joe,

Well said ... SPOT ON.

McCanns' attendance as prime suspects in their child's disappearance was arranged by British Policians.

That European Parliament agreed to it speaks volumes ......

Allowing the McCanns to speak as criminal suspects in their own child's disappearance is equivalent of letting prime suspect in Sarah Payne's abduction address parliament on child safety issues, with full media coverage to boot.

The Police in this case are being treated with utter contempt, ours as well as the long suffering and tormented PJ. It's an abomination in democracy, an utter disgrace.
It speaks volumes about European Parliamentarian standards, or lack of regard

ta ra said...

Ola Portugal and hello UK.

Claudia: you mentioned revenge earlier. You may like this old saying: 'Revenge is a desert best served cold.' The climate is getting cooler for the McCanns, and anyone who lied about 'missing' Madeleine Beth McCann.

A forecast: sub-zero temperatures before September :-)

Choccy,Dolores of the pink rose, Nancy, Ana, Atardi: this is a game the McCanns chose to play. Odd how amateurs think they can win against professionals who do this media stuff 24/7.

Odd how poor Clarence expects to return from Brussels victorious, but walks straight into headlines about Maddie crying, by her mother's own admission.

Spin cycles break down, eventually. That's a law of mechanics. No exceptions.

Darn. I guess Clarry and his political masters will have to work harder this week than they imagined, poor things. Almost makes me feel sorry for them.

On second thoughts: nah! Game on. They chose it. They can live with it. No surrender.

Justice for Maddie, and every child, however long it takes, and whatever it takes. Whatever it takes, imo.
xo all.
leigh

Cláudia said...

Hello, Leigh. Boa noite.
We also have that saying here: A vingança é um prato que se serve frio!

LittleGreyCell said...

Assassin,

Don't start the repetitive thing again. It just makes people dismiss EVERYTHING you have to say and completely negates the effects of the adult discourse you were having earlier.

You're not going to change our minds, nor will you stop us blogging. Let's all be adult about this.

Chrissie Nyssen said...

i prefer this old saying.

truth will come out in the end.

i do not really want to see revenge. i want to see justice.

atardi said...

Hope4truth,

If you are reading.

Have a very nice holiday. Enjoy your days with husband and children. Your children will allways remember the holidays with their parents.

Ana said...

Nancy,

Thank you Nancy:)
I asked for the translation because,for what i could understand from the article, those informations could not became from the PJ,I think that is a spin article only to say that, the shutters were not working that well and that Madeleine was crying the night before because some one enter from there that night and wake up her .
So, in the morning they have some talk and reach the conclusion that they needed to be more carefully at night.
IMO,this is spin spin and more spin, only that they(the McCann´s team) not thought that the British press would chose to report the part of Madeleine crying ....

Joe said...

I only hope that the PJ sort this case out one way or another before we all realize , at least those of us who are parents and child carers, we have been looking after our children all wrong. Its the McCann way, thats only way.

Cláudia said...

She doesn't understand that I'm protecting her, LGC. If I didn't delete her, the fact that she is a nutter would be a lot more obvious! :-)
But I think she still believes she's going to convince us that the wonder couple did not neglect their children!

2345 said...

The tough Mrs Fenn must have suffered very severe intimidation to make her withdraw her account of events on 2nd May out of fear.
She's one of several who have a 'visit'.

Madeleine crying for two hours, sounds of violence, Maddie crying daddy, daddy ... pictures of Kate's injuries.

Cláudia said...

You are absolutely right, Ultraviolet. Justice.

Unknown said...

Hiya all

2345 please stop being silly and saying Claudia is a clone, she is a friend who I am in personal email contact with and runs this blog with me.

I have just been back scanning some of today's posts and picked out a few pithy ones that I really liked:-)

Cláudia said...
2345,

the Pj want them here for a reconstruction for many reasons. One of them is because they know they have lied when they said that they would cooperate and return to Portugal as soon as the authorities wished so. The world heard them say it and the world will see them refuse. And the world will, obviously, understand what that means.
Another reason is to corner the group. They have all given so many versions of events, that a reconstruction would make their lies even more obvious and their theory laughbable.
But there are more reasons.
Thursday, 10 April 2008 15:48:00 o'clock BST
Cláudia said...
Maybe our lot, by not letting the neglect issue go (and we will never let it go) have prevented Amelie and Sean from being left alone, AGAIN, and 'abducted' by a faceless sketch.
Thursday, 10 April 2008 16:26:00 o'clock BST
Gina said...
Assassim it is not us that are im Brussels is it. I am sure Sean and Amelie are being well cared for, but I think their mother would be better placed looking after them than playing Mother superior to the world. Leave it to Daddy, he has enough to say for the both of them
Thursday, 10 April 2008 16:30:00 o'clock BST
ultraviolet said...
there is no child abuse on sean and amelie mccann. except perhaps their mother, makes them play games, of "find the monster who took our sister."
Thursday, 10 April 2008 16:30:00 o'clock BST

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

No, I know. I must give up this thing of wanting to explain!

Chrissie Nyssen said...

claudia here is another old saying for you.

if you want to catch butterflies, better use honey than vinegar.

docmac said...

Atardi

I like PSV and Ajax. Ajax because they have a feeder club in Cape Town of the same name. They are joint top of the Premier league here with a few games to go.

Ek het nie terug gelees nie, so ek weet nie. Alles is moontlik deesdae op die blogs. Baie cloning ens.

Cláudia said...

Hello, Viv!
Thank you. I even had to delete a post so 2345 could see that I had access to the blog.

LittleGreyCell said...

Well, I'm off now. Opus has an early start tomorrow so I have to put him to bed early.

HAVE A GOOD HOLIDAY, HOPE!!

XXX

Cláudia said...

Ultraviolet, is is butterflies in the UK? In my country it's flies. :-)

Cláudia said...

Bye, LGC.

Joe said...

Thank you 2345,

I agree, it sends out all the wrong signals using such people whilst they have the Arguido tag. Its an insult to the integrity of the institution of Amber alert and the publics intelligence. I think the McCanns are possiblity using this as a PR exercise to try to cast them in a good light. All the while it distracts from the interviews, them going to Brussels to draw the fire as it were, it has worked as there has been very little said about the interviews of the wonderful Tapas 7.

Chrissie Nyssen said...

flies, butterflies, they are all insects :-) just so long as they are not jenny-long-legs. i really cannot stand those.

ta ra said...

Ultraviolet.

I stand corrected by your wise words. Justice is more important than revenge. Revenge plays no part in justice; perhaps revenge undermines justice.

However, there are many strands to this sad story of missing Maddie. I wish justice for her, and her extended family/friends.

Revenge is reserved for those whose spiteful behaviour obstructed justice, imo. It's a cold day in hell when media manipulators pervert the course of justice, and walk away from it, unscathed. Apologies if this offends. The world's a rough old place, sometimes. What is, just is.

Sorry to offend your fine instincts, sincerely.

Cláudia said...

Ultraviolet,I can't stand those either!

Unknown said...

Assasin

You think in absolute, Sean and Amelie..destructing??

What of parents who keep popping of and leaving them?

Your absolutist mode of thinking is your problem.

Ps It is now 22.15 is your little boy aged 5 posting for you? or did he get taken into care? I really hope so...

Unknown said...

tee hee Claudia darling, beat you to it:-)

Chrissie Nyssen said...

leigh i was not attacking you, i am sorry if it appeared that way.

i sometimes think i would like revenge. but then i remember, revenge does not solve any problem, it does not undo the thing that is wrong. justice is what makes restitution. this is what i was taught, and this is what i truly believe.

i do not think criticizm of parents is the same thing as abuse of a child. many people criticize me in my life but i do not read this as being abuse of my children! if this were true, then no-body would ever criticize anything, and we would all live in constant fear and paranoia.

i am sorry if this is offensive to some people but this is honestly what i believe.

i have to go to bed now as it is past midnight and i have to rise early tomorrow. good-night.

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