A friend emailed this pic of Kate getting some comfort from Mat Oldfield, what do people make of this? does Kate drop the controlled guard she has to put on when ~Gerry is not about and get comfort from someone a little more loving, concerned and human? VivX and thanks Atardi for your post below. xMADDY MOVE
18/04/2008
Related Article
The owner of the holiday flat where Madeleine McCann vanished wants to rent it out, it was claimed yesterday.
Ruth McCann - who is no relation - is said to be asking £19,500 a year from tourists for the Ocean Club property in Praia da Luz, Portugal. The two bedroom flat has been empty since August.
A local paper claimed it will not be available until June because police need it for a reconstruction. Ruth McCann refused to comment.
528 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 528 of 528Cláudia, no I am talking about the other lawyer, the one that is defending the other child killer,Leonor Cipriano!
Someone blogged this on the Guardian forum and I detect more than a little truth in what he says, i.e. confirming all the assistance given to the McCanns by people in a position to use their clout from the very outset and who I'm sure would have looked the other way if it had been the Matthews' family involved.
He said: "who was there fanning the flames right from the first day? None other than Lord Tim Bell's crisis management supremo and wasn't it handy that the McCanns were staying just outside the Mark Warner complex? Of necessity British Establishment's fingerprints are all over this disaster! Will the McCanns be left swinging in the wind like Matrix Churchill directors years ago?"
I'm not sure what the last sentence was about - I don't remember anything about Matrix Churchill but I'm sure one or two of you do on here - Viv, Ratty or LGC for instance!
Let's hope that all the newspapers won't follow the Mail and People's example while they are in Praia de Luz and continuously run down the PJ's handling of the case! It makes you wonder just who pulls the strings for these newspaper editors these days! CM Perhaps??
Ana,
You may be correct. You seem very heartfelt and passionate about what you are saying. But again, put yourself in my position. I am in Australia .. not Portugal! How could I possibly know whether what you are saying is really true or not? Some very close friends of my family are Portuguese but I haven't seen them for almost a year now, so I haven't even had THEM to confer with!
It's hard for me to know the truth, as I really only have media reports to go on. Like I say, my strongest bias is against the McCanns. And it's not just a bias - the known facts of the case (i.e; the child neglect) shows me they are criminally liable for their daughter's disappearance. But all this stuff about the PJ, really, it's mainly guesswork for me, because one paper claims one thing and another claims something else! Furthermore, with all the negative articles about the PJ in the media over the past year, am I really to believe that Clarence Mitchell spun them all??
Oh, that cartoon character, Ana. Well, if a lawyer is defined by the clients they choose... I think you know that that nobody had ever know about that lwayer before the Cipriano case. In fact, I believe he was probably the only one who accepted to defend them. As I said before he is either guilty or incredibly stupid. Are we supposed to believe that (according to him) he was only going to deliver an inmate arrested for drug possession and traficking her personal belongings without cheecking them? Have you ever heard of a 50 year old lawyer doing that? Yeah, right... As I said before, what was he supposed to say? "Yeah, you got me?" I don't think so...
Bianca,
I found this on 3As site, it is long but worth a read.
What the Daily Mail had not told in their report !
Hope thats help:)
It is about Michael Cook...The Child killer
Hi all.
Have been a bit poorly with a fluey cold. sniff! I think it has a lot to do with our miserable, cold April.
Re the photo, feel very sorry for Kate. Someone said it looks as though what happened had just hit her. I think so too. I also think if she had shown such grief most of the time in the early stages, the general public would have had more pity and less suspicion but I do know that they were told not to cry.
Bianca, I do understand why you are trying to be fair and keep an open mind. That's not a bad way to come across but I do think you should not be so swift to judge the pj based on people's comments in the press. We have all seen many posters, who also have nothing to do with the McCanns (as far as we know) who seem to have taken great delight in dismissing the pj as useless, bungling thugs who beat suspects.
After what the woman was accused of doing to her daughter, i can't honestly say i wouldn't be tempted to do the same if i had enough evidence. Anyway, please just remember that we have Portuguese people here who may be offended and that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, ie, I don't expect the British or Australian policing methods are perfect and that there are no rotten apples among them!
BTW, with you all the way on how sickening the neglect issue is.
Dyl xx
Claudia,
If these stories about the PJ are lies than I hope it is all revealed. It would be disgusting to damn an entire police force just for the sake of protecting the interests of one negligent couple.
However, one of the things that is really raising my suspicions of late is, like I say, the negative claims about the PJ coming from people who have no connection to the McCanns. Why would they say these things if they weren't true?
Anyway, like everything else in this case, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It'd be nice if we could get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth from BOTH sides .. but I aint holdin' my breath!!
Well, Bianca, you haven't heard anything about the PJ before, have you? When the British child molester and killer the Daily Mail mentions in the nineties was tried and convicted in Portugal, you didn't hear anything about the 'terrible' methods of the PJ, have you? I wonder why... I guess there was no CM at that time. And no friends in high places either...
P.S: That case was quite talked about here in Portugal at the time. Any case which involves children is, because they are quite rare. At that time, the guy was caught quite quickly. He had helped in the searches and had even comforted the poor parents. Tried, convicted and no word ever about any bad actions from the police. Maybe he didn't have a lawyer. Because they are usually quite quick about making noise to get clients off the hook. Even when they make things up. Apparently, that lawyer knew his client was tortured but never said a word. Oh well, coincidencies, I'm sure.
Cláudia,
More important, do you know any lawyer that would do such a favour to another Prisoner, I mean, delivering packages of food, cloths, whatever? I don’t know none!
As I said, Bianca, many people who have nothing to do with the McCanns don't like the police. Criminals tend not to. As family members of criminals and so on. Not difficult to explain really. I would be very surprised if people who have broken the law in the UK or in Australia were complementing the police's work. And don't worry, the lies will end up being quite expensive...
Well, Ana, the guy said he not only delivered them to the inmate but he also went and picked them up from the landlord. Very hepful indeed. What a generous human being. And knowing the prisoner had been arrested in January for drug offenses he still delivers the belongings without checking them...
Yeah, right. And I'm Julia Roberts...
Ana, now that poor, innocent, tortured and framed Michael Cook is free, I'm sure that all the pros would be willing to help him and hire him as, let's say, a babysitter for their children and grandchildren. After all the man is innocent and was framed by the big, bad PJ's. I'm sure he will have problems getting a job with such a CV...
Indeed Claudia, not that smart we would think!Ye right!
Hope P.J. sees his banker account!
Hi Dylan,
If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times .. I am not patriotic and am not offended by any legitimate criticism of Australia. We have had plenty of corrupt cops in our country, cold-blooded killers in fact, and it's no skin off my nose to say so.
For me, none of this is about race, or culture, or wanting to prove "whose country is better than whose". The "glass houses" thing is no threat to me. All I am interested in is the facts (sorry to sound like a Pro!) and like I say, the only FACT we have so far is that the McCanns seriously neglected their children. All the rest is largely speculation, including the truth about the PJ's handling of this case (for me, anyway).
Hopefully, the posters I speak to here are sophisticated and smart enough to understand that when I express doubts about the "PJ", I am questioning a police force - not an entire country! Furthermore, for what it's worth, I am half Italian and also have some Spanish blood .. so why would I want to stick it to the Portuguese??
This is a very big case in the media right now and I think it's only fair that I should be allowed to discuss it within the boundaries of fairness and objectivity. As long as I don't make any overt racial slurs (which I never would!) then I can't see the problem.
Well Cláudia,he is a British citizen, maybe he can, with is CV find a job with some help of his friends...who knows?!
Ana, but to avoid him the trouble of looking and being possibly turned down, I'm sure all pros would be willing to hire him. After all he was wrongly convicted and I'm sure he would never, ever hurt a child...
Thank you Ana, I will follow the link now.
:-)
Well said Claudia! Putting your money where you mouth is springs to mind!!
I have always said, anyway, that if the pj really wanted to frame anybody at all, Murat would clearly be the favourite. Divorced, with a girlfriend who is still living with her husband. Dysfunctional. Would have been far easier and far cheaper and more feasible than trying to frame the McCanns!
I have grown more than a little tired of all of the slagging off 'bout the pj and how safe Portugal is to take your kids to. I personally have a lot of recpect for how loving and caring Portugal is, as a nation, towards thier children.
Cláudia,
I am sure of that, look, if they provide him, food, and bed and washed clothes, I do not see any impediment for him to care children of certain families...After all he is just a convicted child killer!
Dylan, those people have an agenda. Pretty easy to explain. As for people coming here or not, well, if they are like the McCanns, I would paid them not to come! lololol
Bianca, of course I do not think you are racist! Rosie's remarks about Portugal still make me feel angry and I just want to avoid any confusion over motives for posting anti pj remarks. I just wanted to say that since we have no real evidence that the pj have treated suspects like this (just as you say about the news and forensics etc) it is perhaps a delicate area that should be avoided!
There was no malice intended in my remarks to you :)
Hello All
Bianca if this had happend to a Portuguise Child in England and the parents had the same sway as the McCanns I would hate to think what they could drag up about the way our Police have behaved in the past especialy with cases like the Birmingham 6 etc...
Not long ago our police force shot an unarmed man dead at a tube station not something I can get my head around but as London was on high alert at the time I guess if he had a bomb and killed a lot of people we would be asking why they did not shoot him when they had the chance (I am not making excuses for what happend it was wrong)..
So if the Portuguise imagenary couple wanted to make trouble they would have 100s of story's comming out about our corupt police and what they may have been accused of in the past...
As Gerry and Kate have not been beaten by the PJ none of these storys mean a thing where they are concerend there is coruption everywhere and to me it looks like once again they are being made out to be poor victims of the PJ...
Madeleine is the only victim in any of this she was neglected and now we are told she even complained that they had not come when she and her 2 year old brother had been crying and they still chose not to hire a babysitter or stay in???
The fact they neglected their children night after night is related to this case the other cases have nothing to do with itand I really believe if the PJ had no evidence they would have just gone down the sorry we cant find her route and if they had just wanted to jail them they would have arested tehm for neglect.
I dont actually want them to go to jail for neglect if that is all they did they have paid a high price for their selfish behaviour and as long as the twins are safe they need their parents.
if they did more then it will be very sad but the twins need to come first...
xxx
Ana, a poor, poor, innocent, framed, wrongly convicted of child murder man who would certainly love the pros' children and grandchildren as if they were his own...
No probs Dylan :-)
The McCann's are paying a professional PR machine to put forward a voice to represent them. Why ?
They could have stayed in PDL becoming part of the community and talking openly once a week with the press to keep the case in the public eye and prove through their sincerity. Several 'open' press conferences would show they had nothing to hide.
They choose to run and they choose to hide behind an ex-government media advisor whose skills are not grounded in being open and sincere.
Enough said. It is a simple case in that way. Where it gets blurred is in finding evidence. Gerry's ' Find the body and prove it' comment clearly implies he knows something that makes him feel superior in terms of the knowledge he knows. Thus they do not wish to be open and honest and appeal directly to us as human beings for if they did slip ups could occur. Better to hide behind those skilled in the dark arts.
Yes Cláudia, do you see any problem on that? I am sure the pro thinks alike! A babysitter man, wrongly convicted would care the children as they were his own, for free of course...
Hope4Truth,
That was very well written and I will keep what you have said in mind.
You have covered a lot and given me excellent food for thought .. thank you.
And you are correct - I'm sure negative/shameful incidences could be dredged up from just about every police force in the world.
Bianca :-)
You're absolutely right, Ana. After all, the man deserves all the best after his terrible, terrible ordeal... And a babysitter man. Ts there a more adequate job for such a wrongly convicted man?
Hope, I keep missing you!
I am glad you had a nice holiday & that you have returned still talking your calm & honest sense!
PS I love, love, love mint aero -did you bring me any back??!! )))
I have to go now. My daughter's eczema has got really bad & i'm going to bandage it to stop her scratching the cream off. I'm going to have to take her to the doctor's tomorrow, the poor little mite.
bfn xx
Have you notice the decreasing number of pros posting? Not to mention the number of posts? Are they hiding under their beds? Or are they now unable to convince themselves?
No there are not But don’t hold your breath, Cláudia, I am not sure if the pros are ready to pay him the food, the bed and the washed cloths, this can be very expensive!!
Bianca
It is all the spin and dredging up corruption by the press that makes me doubt them.
If my child were missing whatever teh PJ had or had not done in the past would be of no concern where my missing child was concerned and as I have said many times if they suspected me I would be going out of my way to answer questions and if I had no answer would simply say I dont know???
Also the fact they never suspected any of their friends especaily the one missing for 45 minutes of harming her is odd as much as you dont want to doubt your friends you could not help but doubt them in fact I would doubt every person there.
xxx
Ana, I don't know why, but I have a feeling that the poor, innocent, wrongly convicted child killer would work for free...
Hello Dyl
I will stick a bar in the post to you to make you feel better hope to see you soon xxx
Cláudia,
Never too late for them start thinking!Like the saying:better late than ever!
Yes, Ana, You're right. But weird timing... And of course, kind of hard for us because we miss them so! lololol
Seriously, is this one big con or what?
Since when do criminal suspects in the 'disappearance' of a child get to scold the police, and take money from the public in the search for a child when there is no evidence of abduction? Absolutely none.
Since when do people who leave infants alone night after night, defenceless, asleep, in a foreign hotel room get to say their behaviour is 'within the bounds of responsible parenting'?
Since when do parents of a 'missing' child fail to answer every legitimate question put by the police, vow to stay where she disappeared to search for her, but do not search for her, stay long enough for photo opportunities and fundraising, then run back to the UK - and hire expensive extradition lawyers, used by the notorious Chilean dictator Pinochet?
Since when do the parents of a 'missing' child hire expensive Government PR mechanics to speak for them whilst claiming they are just ordinary parents of a 'missing' child?
Since when do such parents hire expensive libel lawyers threaten anyone who questions their version of events, whilst taking money from kind members of the public (children, pensioners, the poor, the dispossessed) - and use it to pay their mortgage, and give 'financial assistance' for their family before any charitable giving because the Fund is a private company, selling trinkets in the name of a trademark?
That trademark is Madeleine Beth McCann, dead aged 3, the beloved sister of twins, aged 2.
'The People' newspaper in the UK today publishes a story ignored by other media because it is a re-hash of old PR tactics. The Daily Fail (!) publishes 3 related stories, ignored by other media because it is a re-hash of old PR.
Justice for Madeleine, however long it takes. It's going to take longer than the kind public would like. It will happen sooner than the McCann Machine of media manipulators would like, I think.
Time tells all.
xo Darlings
leigh
Cláudia,
Maybe you are right,after all,so many children...
Claudia, I have always believed the people who openly support the two in such a blind way are clearly mostly close family or friends. It can be the only motive.
Why? because a 3yr old girl who only had her parents to rely on in this dark world has completely disappeared and vanished from this world. In those circumstances who would not say investigate these two and then check and recheck what you have.
The rights of the 3yr old must come first. In a nutshell that is why we are all here.
Cláudia,
We miss(Not) them all!Lol
Well said, Leigh.
You know how peculiar they are...
Ana, exactly...
Hiya all
I have just read some excellant posts about the mud raking Daily Mail article. They certainly would not need to go back to 1980 here would they!
Claudia I have noticed they seem to be disappearing on the other blog and very few posts now. Chinadoll, Rosiepops and JanetGT. So finally then are these the family members. I think they are. Kate apparently does spend a lot of her time answering emails, as you know I believe she is Chinadoll. I think it is more than coincidence she has not posted since that statement got leaked.
Viv x
Bath Theory, I would love you to be right. Because if they are, then I can understand them defending those two. If they aren't, well, then I think it is a lot more shocking...
Ana, I miss them (not) so much, my heart aches! lolol
Great to see you, darling! :-)
Viv, as you know, I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist and I have no opinions on who they may be (because that would mean I would have to think about them and I really don't)! lololol But I think that now we have mentioned it, some of them will have to work double shifts to get the post count up and others will have to be recruited! :-) I still remember Mum From Hell saying they had thousands of followers in the blog. Everytime I remember that, I pmsl.
Boa Noite Claudia y Helloooooo Viv, and Bath Theory.
London calling, and very miffed at the moment with the machinations of some. Hey ho. Anger fuels cool, calm action very often in this life.
Viv: if Chinadoll is Kate, then I have an open, abject apology to make.
Sincerely, I liked Chinadoll when she was her best; her thinking, feeling best. We had a few cross words, and got over it.
As you know, I have deep sympathy for Kate - and that's not a sentimental response based on superficiality.
I hope people will remember the meaning of compassion when the full truth is told. Justice is honesty, mercy, and compassion, in my humble opinion. It takes courage to be wholeheartedly honest when one has done wrong.
There is wrong for wrong reasons. There is also wrong for the right reasons. Kate is a wife, and a mother. Her burden is great.
Just a few thoughts. I accept that the law, and public opinion, can put forward a different perspective.
Hi Viv,
How are you?
Yes they needed to go back to 1980 and do a not very well accurate report about it!
Cláudia,
"...they had thousands of followers in the blog..."lolol
Where are they? Oh in their visions, I suppose!
Cláudia,
"...they had thousands of followers in the blog..."lolol
Where are they? Oh in their visions, I suppose!
---------------------------------
Ana, you know how they and the truth go separate ways... ;-)
Off now for dinner and football!
See you all later! :-)
Ola Ana!
We knew this would take time, and perseverance...and so it is proving to be so. No change there then.
Leigh
Your 20.04 post spot on I agree with every word...
Dont agree about CD over Christmas she was a nasy piece of work but she taght me that people on blogs like to play games and dont care who they try to destroy in the process.
I cant believe I was talking to Kate if they have been on line well god help them not the behaviour of parents of missing children and some of the vile stuff posted by them would not show them in a light they would wish to be seen in IMHO...
What do I know I will probebly never blog again once this is all over xxx
Hiya Claudia, Ana and Leigh
Seems to me they went quiet to lick their wounds and reformulate their battle plan which is the article in the Daily Mail which actually states the case against Portuguese Police, not Kate and Gerry and trots out the same tired lines we bave seen for several months now from Sad Rosie. This is all they have left.
After this renewed battle plan I see Rosie is now back on the blog writing the most incredile hypocrisy (it is oK for McCanns to sue whilst being Arguidos but not Murat) below..
Leigh
There are very much two sides to Chinadoll, a pleasant/intelligent side, and another side where she comes across as though she has APD...depends what mood you catch her in. Check out her chat with me at the top of the pet's thread if you have not already seen it.
"Why is Robert Murat starting to sue half the British press for millions, while he is still arguido?
Why is is apparently OK and welcomed by some complete nut cases that he is allowed to make millions out of a missing little girl to personally swell his own personal bank balance?
Why are there approximately 15 witnesses that all state they saw Murat outside apartment 5a on the night that Madeleine disappeared?"
Olá Leigh,como estás?How are you?
Yes, this will take time, we must be focused. The truth will be out sooner or later.
Just liked to day that you are a sweetie person :) Thank you!
I am off now, have a game to watch, see you all later!
Remember guys we are the "complete nut cases" - Rosiepops knows this, she had a dream/vision about it:-)
Hi Viv
15 witnesses saw Murat now???
I am sure if he was out and about that night he would have said he was if people had started to say they had seen him he would know it would not be long before someone he knew said they had seen him.
From what I have read many people were out that night searching he could have just said he heard all the noise and went to join the search..
xxx
Viv
Has RP now had a vision as well???
xxx
Gracias, Ana. Y tu, chica.
We wait for justice, however long it takes.
Leigh 3 , I believe the word compassion is a good one. However, if all this is proved , given that it is raining in London at the moment
Soy una gota de agui felice !!
Viv, agreement on the close family thing completely. By the way I earlier stated that we should all contribute to a fund so you could go out and get the word on the street in PDL. i reckon we could get you there on Easy and enough to stay in the Mark Warner complex too !!! Embedded with the nannies in the creche even !!!!!
Rosiepops et al are all probably relatives of the McCanns and Healys, so its to be expected that they suffer tunnel vision with regards to this case. Its the same comments day in and out Rosie posts the sermon and the rest just give due deference in posts of a line or two. They need a reality check
Soy una gota de agua felice means I am a happy water drop. One year on I am happy that Madelienes voice will be heard 'whoever it hurts.'
Hi Hope,
I lost my last post to you. Doh! Luddite, I am! Anyhow...
I understand how you feel. Really, I do. Perhaps this: UK Editors think of online as a new way to reach out to readers.
It is the world weird web; something quite new, and shocking, as you and we all have discovered. Perhaps even Editors are shocked at what they have seen. Some adjustments need to be made, maybe. It all takes time.
I admire your determination to persist with having your say. Free speech only exists if we insist.
Eyes wide open. 'The pen is mightier than the sword.' Or maybe now it will be the key pad.
Err. Yuk. I loathe the sound of that! Ho hum. This is the 21st century. The world weird web.
Hiya Rosie has gone from hardly writing any posts at all over the last few weeks to now writing almost every post on there which obviously coincides with the renewed campaign to discredit the police started today in the Mail.
The thing is can anyone actually be bothered to read the Rosie rubbish? It has become a Uni-Blog where she gets to listen to the sound of her own voice, feeding her hatred of the Portuguese Police.
Leigh
World Weired Web that just about sums it up LOL
xxx
Bath Theory.
I am a 'happy water drop' too, as you put it.
'...a drop in the ocean...' as our Friend of Children, Alsabella, would say.
Every drop makes the rain, makes the rivers, makes the ocean of truth, washing over the world for eternity, regardless of any little human diversion. King Canute made that point hundreds of years ago. I guess we are destined to learn our lessons every generation.
I agree with you.
Viv,
Perhaps RP has had personal affiliations with the PJ to hate them so much.:)
XX D
The other point that we discussed before on the other forum is that if you had these two in your inner family you might feel obliged to come to their aid (Not me mind) but even if you did you would have a little niggling voice inside you saying ' Stand up for Madeleine and ask those direct probing questions.'
It would be interesting to know how many in their family have done this privately and indeed shoulder doubts about them but are not sharing these thoughts publicly. M.I.5 + G.C.H.Q bugs will be picking it all up mind.
Leigh 3 - most poignant. And Viv , how about mingling with Martin Blunt over in PDL.
Good evening all!
Leigh, your post at 20.04 is exellent! Thank you:)
Bath Theory, I'm with you, lets send Viv to PDL:)))
---
This is copied from Gazeta Digital:
20.4.08
A nice job and a good salary
Clarence Mitchell has a nice job with a good salary, working as a spokesman of a couple of suspects of the disappearance of a little child, almost one year ago. Finding Madeleine McCann, dead or alive, would mean the end of his job.
A friend of mine, also a journalist, thinks that Clarence Mitchell is a scum bag and a scoundrel, because he has no ethical boundaries in his attacks against Portugal and the Portuguese people. I don't agree with him.
Of course, I'm not insinuating that Mr. Clarence Mitchell has a personal interest in keeping the idea that the child was kidnapped, the McCann are innocent, the Portuguese police are a bunch of drunken incompetents and the Portuguese journalists are “stupid sardines” (as another British journalist said, recently, in Brussels). No.
Another friend of mine believes that Clarence Mitchell is mentally retarded, because he asked for a foreign police force – FBI, Scotland Yard or Europol - to take action at the territory of a sovereign country, Portugal, when he called for a “a wide-ranging inquiry into the Portuguese handling” of the case “by officers from outside the country”.
Well, I have to agree. Only a mentally retarded could propose something like that. Scum bags, scoundrels and mentally retarded people are quite common, among journalists from British tabloids. But you can, also, find some of those specimen among ex-BBC journalists.
Just read what an idiot, David Rose, wrote - “The damning case against the Portuguese police” - a story that I consider as the third most shameless manipulation of information I read, since May 3rd 2007 and I believe you will agree with me. Talking about the ranking of worst British journalists in Madeleine's case, first place belongs to Grant Hodgson, a real scum bag who wrote false news, and second place to that imbecile from Sky News, Martin Brunt.
This is not the starting of the “silly season”, that period of time when newspapers have no news, politicians are all on holidays and editors must be “creative” to have a good headline. This is the beginning of another season of insults against all Portuguese people, marking one year of Madeleine's disappearance.
Does the British Media knows that there are limits for these kind of campaigns? That they can produce nasty results?
Posted by Paulo Reis
--
Niki
Hiya Viv,
Thanks for the update on Kate's Aunt Rosie, sad though it is.
It seems to me that the McCann 'aggressive, high risk strategy' (Gerry's words) in defence of their 'pet' youngest child from a big Glasgow family (his sister Philomena's words) can only work if their defence works, ie:
The Portuguese Police are rubbish.
Madeleine was abducted.
We are responsible parents.
1 problem with that: it is all factually incorrect.
In reverse order: the McCanns are guilty of child neglect, under Portuguese and UK law, and custom.
There is no evidence of abduction. Absolutely none.
The Portuguese Police arrived at a crime scene, trashed by trained doctors who insisted on an abduction...only after alerting their media and political contacts in the UK some 40 minutes approx. after they 'discovered' Maddie was 'missing'.
The Portuguese Police have been exemplary: thorough (alerting surrounding areas contrary to McCann claims; searching within reasonable boundaries), and calling in their colleagues (British Police and Interpol) when it was the right time to do so.
The Police - Portuguese, British, Interpol - have conducted a thorough inquiry. They know what happened to Madeleine.
The only issue now is proof for a court of law.
Personally, I've always thought it would wind up in a libel court because whether criminal law gets enough proof in this case or not, libel court is a nasty place for nasty people, and this case is nasty, in my opinion.
Hi Niki,
I agree with Mr Reis, and I guess you do too ;-)
Well Well Well,the Daily Mail have pulled their article!!
Were they worried about their libelous remarks?
And finally:-
Looking at the timely reminder in the photo put by Viv as her headline story today, I just think: who are these people? The McCanns. Their 'friends' and 'family' in Portugal. Their UK political and media contacts.
What a bunch of weirdos. Quite apt for the world weird web of the 21st Century.
I'd rather be a Luddite than a mechanic like them. Children prefer humans to wannabe robots; 'educated fools', 'useful idiots', as Lenin said.
Lenin? Yes. He would roll in his grave at the sight of middle class morons and their middle class apparatchiks in Government lying down for them, imo. It's a sick story.
See you in court, Clarry, and you Gerry.
Kate: FFS, get a grip. Madeleine is a victim. No need for you or the twins to be victims.
I always thought the comment about 'high risk strategy' most strange. Can you see Rhys Jones parents talking in that way.
If you have nothing to hide and are open and sincere there is no high risk.
A high risk strategy implies there is a gain and a loss to be facted in. We all know what those are don't we. Freedom or Prison.
Once again, being open and free would have been best. Direct probing questions from open press conferences where their answers and words could not be previously prepared would have convinced the public of their sincereity. But alas too much to lose in that strategy hey !
One other thing - if the Portugese police wanted to stitch up anybody it would have been done to Murat. It appears this tactic was indeed tried but alas not by the Portugese ! but by the McCann media team themselves !! It has failed and left more than egg on their faces.
Dolores of the pink rose.
Well spotted! The Daily Mail well and truly overstepped the mark today.
Perhaps they still imagine the world is confined to the UK.
It's the world weird web, and I for one am happy that the free flow of information is expanding, despite the tawdry, petty, provincial antics of some...whether they are one tribe defending family or one newspaper printing xenophobic s***!
Miffed of London, signing off now :-))) b4 I go ballistic!
See ya soon Dolores. Always a pleasure.
xo
leigh
Bath Theory.
Quite right, what you say, I think. However, they will wind up with more than egg in their faces. Murat has the doyen of UK PR in his corner: Max Clifford.
Strictly speaking, Clifford will represent Murat when his arguido status is lifted. Strictly speaking ;-)
Bye Leigh, still raining here so sweet dreams for you.
Wouldn't it be nice to listen to Max Clifford giving a critique of how Clarence has done in his job ? I would just love that.
Night night,Bath Theory.
I think we will hear Max Clifford's opinions...and it won't be nice ;-)
Time. It all takes time.
See you next time. Have a great week.
A good teacher is priceless.
leigh
I would love to know how any police force in the world could investigate a case of a missing child when the first obstacle is parents who refuse point blank to answer questions ,then a wall of silence from the friends, followed by massive disinformation, made up abductors, false sightings , false statements......Arguidos then leave the PDL on the first flight and have not returned since. Could the FBI, CIA, Scotland get any further.... ? An impossible task. The McCanns and friends should be deeply ashamed for their lack of co-operation at the least IMO.
Thanks Leigh you remembered xx
And Joe your comment reminds me of when George Bush and Al Gore had a bust up over the votes counted in Florida which seemed somewhat dodgy.
A group of African politicians offered to 'observe' a recount to ensure it was done fairly. It made me smile for so long.
In other words arrogant countries or indeed arrogant superior people have to watch very carefully who they choose to tread on cos sometimes 'little' people bite back and do so carefully, using time to work on their side.
:)
Goodnight to those who are left
Dear Joe,
I agree, however, it is amazing how honest inquiry does rise above petty liars, don't you think?
Only one thing separates Gerry McCann from any common criminal suspected of killing his child and disposing of her body: money.
The kind of money that buys people in 'high places'. In my opinion, they are low people in low places: the kind of place that puts money and reputation before children.
Thieves and charlatans: the world of honest, hard working people has always had to deal with that sort, I think.
Night, honest Joe. Glad to see you, as always. Gotta go.
x
leigh
Niki 9pm,
Great post.
Thank you Leigh3 and goodnight to you.
Hi all, just been trying to read back and catch up but only firing on one cylinder as appear to be going down with something.
This morning I posted that I could see the papers from both countries starting "news wars" and if Paula Reis' comments are setting the tone of the Portuguese retaliating then I can see this getting really nasty. It will be like a nation to nation blog. How said is that. I never thought it would come to this. Everybody trying to blame somebody else but at the end of the day we all know this may not have happened at all if Madeleine had not been left or had a babysitter. What a bloody mess.
I will have to read and catch up tomorrow because I feel like shite and am going to bed now. Nite all
Hello guys
I confess I have not had chance to read all the posts that have been made but currently there seem to be two issues:
1. There is a further campaign by the McCann camp, as exemplified by the article in the Mail to turn the focus from there being a case against Kate and Gerry McCann to the case actually being against the Portuguese Police. In support of this they refer to two convicted murderers and suggest they were treated unfairly.
2. There seems to be a gathering of the press in PDL as though a major story is about to break. Does anyone know whether Kate and Gerry have voluntarily gone back to PDL?
Any thoughts on this because if there is any news about what is currently happening in PDL this is what I would like to focus on and any suggestions for a new article would be much appreciated. It seems to me that 1 and 2 above may be inextricably linked. The McCanns are having to knuckle under and face the music and so start to tell us yet again, how bad the Portuguese Police are. In fact as I know Hope wrote very clearly above in a great post, thuggery by British Police over the years is clear and not in any doubt at all. No police force is perfect and individuals will always behave badly in any organisation. ~This has nothing at all to do with the guilt or innocence of Kate and ~Gerry McCann.
Mmmm, I see the Daily Mail has pulled the article. Maybe they had the same hunch I had earlier this afternoon. But I have another hunch. And my hunch tells me it's too late.
And I also find it interesting that in order to defend the wonder couple people feel the need to compared this case to the cases of two convicted child killers. What company...
Viv if you scroll back baththeory suggested we al club together to buy you an airticket so you can be their yourself and report back as is. As we hadn't heard from you we were beginning to wonder is you were already there.
Someone said they had shut the road off to Ocean Club this morning but Helen M said she can not confirm about this morning as she did not go down then as it was pouring with rain, but the road was not closed in the afternoon. I think someone on the 3's claimed to be there, not sure lost the plot. Speak tomorrow x
Claudia
My lovely you are right, DAILY MAIL HAVE PULLED THAT ARTICLE SLATING THE PORTUGUESE POLICE BUT I HAVE A COPY OF IT.
Can you let me know whether you want me to put it on a new thread and of course comment they pulled it. Are they going to get sued! I really hope so!!!!
Luv ya hun x
Hey Gina
I did not read that, how lovely of you all. I could meet up with our lovely Claudia and we could do a double act and tell it just like it is:-)
Luv Viv x
I find this post by Tylersmum and imo, she explains very well one of the reasons, why the Mail pulled the article:
She said:
«In the article in the Mail it mentions the so called torture of Leonor Cipriano in graphic detail.
It goes on to name there PJ officers who it says are charged with torture thereby implying that these officers had carried out the acts described in the article.
When Cipriano first made the allegations she was asked to attend an ID parade where she failed to identify ANY PJ officer as the person responsible.
Cipriano was also sued for libel by the police officers union for making the allegations.
This case was withdrawn in the light of the ID parade failure and Cipriano withdrawing her allegation that she was beaten by PJ officers.
It is now claimed that Cipriano was attacked by people allowed into the station by the PJ.
This means that the article was libellous in its claims against the PJ.
Lets hope the police union sue the Mail now.»
I have no doubts that they will be sued,along with others...
Hi Viv
How about a post of Madeleine the Victim this poor child has been pushed to the back of all this (by me included) I fear she is dead and if her parents had no hand in it then all the publicity from day one would have panicked an abductor she would have been to hot to handle...
When we were away last week there was a family with very small children around 3 and 4 and listening to the excited chatter from the two of them (and the crying and whinging when they were tiered or bored) took me back to when my children were small and remebering how excited they were when we went away got me thinking about Madeleine.
Whatever happend to her she must have been frightend the crying the night before is horrible in itself and for no parent to come and say everything is fine and you are safe would have been an unplesent experience for the children what happend the next night (or the same night) would have been terifying.
If my child were missing I would want her to be seen as the victim and for people to worry about her as well as looking out for her I truly dont know what I would do but I would have searched every inch of PDL before I came home and helped the PJ with any information I could give them...
Sorry I am going on again xxx
Cláudia,
:)...
Thanks Ana for the good post from Tyler's mum. It is a bit like why McCanns were able to sue the Daily Express, they stated things as a fact that they just could not prove. Clarence really should have thought this one through!
Thanks also Hope for the great suggestion about a new post. You are so right, we are all guilty of getting caught up in the bitter battle Kate and Gerry McCann are seeking to wage against the Portuguese Police and the real issue is what about little Madeleine, the victim. Goncalo Amaral wrote a lovely email setting this out and so did Leics Police, does anyone have copies of them. I know they are probably on this blog, but trying to find them...using them however, would say very powerfully this is what the police are about British and Portuguese.
Viv x
Viv and all still here
I am off to bed I offered to send some cash in a brown envelope should you take up the challange to go to PDL let me know where to send it...
See you tomorrow xxx
Hyia Viv darling,
I think that Clarrie is not worried because it was the Mail that reported all those lie and not him although we know that the article has his fingertip on, don’t know if this can be proved!Maybe The Mail can...
Viv, darling, please, send the article to me ASAP.
And I think it could a good discussion.
Ana, CM is worried because of other lies he told...
Cláudia,yes but not about The Mail´s article...
Viv,
What a nice tribute that would be to have something mentioned about Madeleine the forgotten victim.
XX D
No, Ana, not that...
Knock knock...anyone at home?
Viv,
Their is a new picture of Madeleine on Mccann files of Madeleine in a Snowhite costume,she looks so pretty.
XX D
Hello everyone!
In relation to the news which we all waiting for, I think we already have some news - news that are defiantly facts:
1. PJ made the trip, which they were trying to get for so long.
2. They did not stay for month to get the result, but got it in a week.
3. They started interrogations not from the wider circle of witnesses (as normally would be expected), but from T7.
That says that there has been reinsurance from some T7 in advance.
4. All T7 came without lawyers and voluntarily AND no one has been declared arguido!! - means they answered the questions to satisfaction. Well some of them.
5. Reconstruction/investigative experiment - means there is enough information gathered to reveal the events and liars.
6. We did not here any news - means McCann's lawyers are in the dark.
7. Ant Portuguese hysteria in some newspapers - sign of desperation.
8. Clarence IS in trouble.
9. There are more interviews to be conducted by UK police next week.
I do not think we should expect any rush from investigation.
Yes, of course Cláudia, he is worried about all he is been saying,some of the times live and with colors...
Ana, in fact I don't think he is worried about all he has been saying. Most of it was just boring and stupid. But I think he is worried about some of the things he said lately. And you know what? he should?
Doc, hello! :-)))
Claudia darling
I have just written a post about Madeleine the victim and mentioned a few more besides but this has actually made me cry.
I am sending the Daily Mail article to you but would like you to write the post, I think that would be a good perspective.
Luv Viv x
Viv, darling, that's not why I want the article... ;-)
Claudia
OK, understood!
Luv Viv x
Ola Claudia
Amanha em 21.10 (TVI)
"Maddie, Segredo sem fim" é um especial da informação da TVI. Segunda - Feira, dia 21 de Abril, a seguir ao Jornal Nacional.
Hey Claudia
We will be wanting a full breakdown on that Pt TV prog tomorrow, please!
Luv Viv x
Cláudia,
Exactly!My point exactly :)Lately and in live programs...
Boa noite Darling,amanhã é outro dia:) Beijinhos!
Viv,
Boa noite e até amanhã :)
Beijinhos
Read you all tomorow,off now.
Boa Noite
Ana
xxxx
Hi Viv
You here?
hiya doc here now
Been wondering about something. Remember in late October there was a lot of speculation about the time on Kate's camera viz. 1.29 vs 2.29 when the 'last picture' was taken at the pool. There were rumours that the date may have been changed and questions as to why the pic had only been released after 3 weeks. Some even suggested the pic was doctored. Of course this threw the whole timeline of M's disappearance/death into disarray.
Then, out of the blue, 6 months after the event David Payne suddenly recalls seeing Gerry playing tennis and being asked to check on Kate and the kids, thus becoming the last independent 'witness' to see Madeleine alive. When this version of events was scrutinised CM suddenly stated that the timeline would not be discussed any longer. Soon after the British press stopped publishing references to same. Hmmm...
Boa noite, Ana. Dorme bem.
Beijinhos!
xxx
Viv, THANK YOU!!!!
I got the article and replied to you. Don't know if you read it yet.
Viv and doc, I had already heard about that special on Madeleine's case tomorow on TVI. If nothing comes up and I'm able to watch it, of course I'll tell you all about it.
Something else I've just come across. The 'CCTV pictures' of Madeleine and her dad buying ice creams at Cafe Paradiso at around 5pm on the 3rd. Team McCann hyped that big time as 'proof' that Maddie was alive at 5 pm. When it became apparent that there were no working CCTV cameras at the cafe and therefore no footage the tennis story came out. Lies all round methinks. The 'leak' concerning Maddie's words to Kate at breakfast would be another ruse in the same vein then.
IT'S NOT WORKING, CLARENCE. GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN AFTER CONVINCING KATE TO TELL THE TRUTH, MAN.
Doc, I think that CM didn't make it on time.
Claudia
Another one without a watch, or even a bloody calendar.
Honestly, I think it is a bit too late for him. After the link thing it got a bit more difficult. And I see he is still silent...
Hiya Doc
I do think it is very significant the pic only got released after three weeks, given the importance they then sought to place upon it, it does look like they were searching for the "right" picture to release and anyone will know the dates can be fiddled with on a digital camera. How interesting that it shows a pic with Gerry where Maddie is looking so happy. Why did he want this one in particular to be the apparent last view of her?
As you may know, I have never thought this pic was genuinely taken that day at all. I have always thought the tennis balls pic is probably the last or one of the last pics of her. Her arm is burned angry red on the tennis balls pic and yet on this one, which is on my new post there is no burning and hardly any sign of sunburn at all. This clearly suggests to me it was taken earlier on in the holiday.
As you are intimating it was very important for them to try and establish Madeleine was still alive throughout that day.
Next we come to what I certainly do believe was entirely false evidence of Payne, that again was released very late on, an amazing 6 months later, although of course, we do not know what he told the police at the time. Clearly once more seeking to suggest Madeleine was alive at either 6.30 or 7 that night (depends on the report you read). In the released statement of Gerry he says they put the children to sleep at 7.15 having helped Kate with the children, this seems to be completely at odds with what Payne is saying. I think what Gerry is saying is probably just a little nearer to the truth and do think it is very possible that when he says they put the children to sleep at precisely 7.15 he meant that quite literally, hence his embarassed reaction when asked whether they sedated the children.
There again, there is the clear possibility that he was not telling the truth at all in that statement and he attacked both Kate and Madeleine the night before when being called back after Madeleine crying and he was in a drunken rage. I honestly dont know which is the truth from the two. Was Kate forced to sedate Maddie the following night after copping a hiding from Gerry the night before? Aggressive people who are in drink are much more dangerous and aggressive, no doubts about that.
Viv x
Viv, when it transpired there were no reliable witnesses to say that Maddie had indeed been at the courts and the cafe footage was shown not to exist the 'window' changed from being half an hour - between 9.30 and 10 - to one lasting a full 8 to 9 hours. That's when David Payne stepped up to the plate. Now we have the whole breakfast thing. Doesn't wash with me I'm afraid.
Doc
I completely agree with what you just said to Clarence
get out while you can (before he gets prosecuted for perverting the course of justice too) and try to convince Kate to tell the truth. I have always tried to say to Kate just come clean and face it, that really is the best thing for her, dealing with her grief over Madeleine and coping better with life. There may well be a prison sentence in it for her, but she is in prison right now x
Viv, beautiful new thread.
Off to bed now.
Sleep tight, meus queridos amigos.
Beijinhos!
xxxx
I believe Maddy was already dead in the afternoon, yes :-(. Gerry himself says he got back at 7, read a story and had them asleep by 7.15. Liar. The twins were already 'down' before he arrived IMO.
By the way, you and Claudia have McMail
Nite Nite to you both, going to check my mail
com amor
viv x
Beijinhos Claudia, dorme bem x
Nite Viv x
I've got something else to attend to now. See you later.
Viv, minha querida amiga,
dorme bem.
Beijinhos! ;-)
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