13 Mar 2008

BONES FOUND CURRENT MADELEINE THREAD 14.3.08 Barragem de Arade - Vast, Wild, Beautiful..













Hi All
I just thought people may be interested to see the beauty and the vast scale of this place. I cannot understand why the McCanns would not want to co-operate with the search. Parents who lose a child always want to at least recover their little body don't they, that is very important to them and helps with the grieving process. After three weeks the McCanns were saying they accept she is probably dead but now they are insisting she is alive. This just makes no sense. Seeing this Lake and with four feet of mud at the bottom - it does seem like an almost impossible task..
Viv x



Barragem do Arade

Driving instructions:
Approximately 25 km. from Carvoeiro. Head towards Lagoa, continue to Silves, turn right after the bridge towards Messines and drive until you see the sign pictured on the left.

Continue towards the barragem until you see this building and turn left just before it.
When you're ready to leave you can do so by crossing the dam, stay right and you'll end up at the same building, having seen the dam from two different locations.
The Barragem do Arade was built in the years between 1944 and 1956. It is one of the main reservoirs of water in the Algarve and is irrigating more than 2.300 hectares of citrus trees.
The water level is max.46 meters above ground and the dam itself is 246 meters wide
The dam also produces 1,35 GWh of electricity You can find more facts about the dam here [in Portuguese - opens in new window].
In a 4 wheel drive vehicle you can make some interesting excursions into the wilderness behind the dam, but please be careful as the tracks are extremely dangerous








Just above the round-about at the Dam you'll find this charming restaurant, the dam engineers former residence.
You can have a lunch in the shade, amongst bird cages and plenty of childrens toys.
Tickets for the "Paradise Island" in the middle of the lake can be bought here. The island is open during the summer months [May-September depending on the weather].








----------------------------------------

Madeleine: Divers Search Reservoir
Martin BruntCrime correspondent Updated:05:58, Wednesday March 12, 2008
A team of divers has resumed its search of a remote Algarve reservoir in the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann.

Diver searches the water
So far they have recovered nothing but several lengths of cord, some plastic tape and a single white, cotton sock.
Human rights lawyer Marcos Aragao Correia is funding the private search in the belief that Madeleine's body was thrown into the Barragem do Arade shortly after being killed by an abductor.
He claims he was told of the girl's fate by an underworld contact.
It's the second time the lawyer has paid for divers to explore the reservoir which lies in rolling hills a 20-minute drive from Praia da Luz, the holiday resort from where Madeleine vanished in May last year.
In December - when Portuguese police refused to act on his claims - he paid around £3,000 for a first search.
Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, have dismissed Mr Correia as a self-publicist and believe there is no evidence to suggest there is any link between their daughter and the reservoir.
They don't believe Madeleine is dead and want any search to concentrate on finding her alive.
Mr Correia told Sky News: "The Portuguese authorities refused to carry out the searches themselves, as is their obligation. Any possibility that she may be in the lake should be taken seriously and duly investigated.

Madeleine McCann: Vanished last May
"They completely refused to give my tip-off any credibility whatsoever, so I took it upon myself to search."
He said that whatever his divers recover will be handed to the McCanns' private investigators as potential evidence.
Five divers are being helped by two firefighters who specialise in the recovery of bodies.
Their search is complicated enough, but they've also discovered that the bottom of the reservoir has layer of soft mud four metres thick, into which a weighted body would sink and disappear.
Last week, Portuguese police briefed a senior British detective on questions to be put to the seven friends who were dining with the McCanns on the night Madeleine disappeared from the holiday apartment where she was sleeping with her twin brother and sister.
That re-questioning is expected to be carried out in the next few weeks.

114 comments:

atardi said...

Goodmorning Viv,

I see that you survived last night attacks.

More about the search at Barragem do Arade from edition.cnn.com

The search at the Barragem do Arade reservoir, about 30 kilometers (19 miles) from Praia da Luz, is the initiative of Portuguese lawyer Marcos Aragao Correia, who told CNN he has never spoken to the McCanns but has sent them two letters and without receiving a reply.

We've been contracted by a lawyer who's got some inclination that Madeleine was dumped in there," said Falkous, the diver.

Divers have "been picking up unnatural objects" from the reservoir's floor, including the cord, a sock and plastic bags, Falkous said.
Correia said they have found four strings, each with different lengths, and a sock. He said the items have been turned over to the McCanns' detectives, but Falkous said the items were given to "authorities."
McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell told CNN, "Correia (the lawyer) is entitled to search the area, but we do not accept the premise that Madeleine is dead, and there is no evidence to indicate her body is in this lake. Neither police nor the McCann investigators are present at the search."

Falkous, a British national from North Yorkshire who's lived in Portugal for seven years, said his dive firm cut its price by about half in an effort to help out.
The disappearance of the girl "has affected everyone down here," he said. "Everyone wants to see closure to it, one way or the other. It's a safe place. People are shocked it happened."
Mitchell said it appears that the Portuguese police will conduct new interviews with the family friends, but probably not until after Easter.

The whole article can be read at:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/03/12/mccann.lake/

Have a nice day.

I'm off to work.

Niki said...

Good morning Atardi!
Had just copied that article, ready to post here!

Quote:
"Mitchell said it appears that the Portuguese police will conduct new interviews with the family friends, but probably not until after Easter."

Hope that is Catolic-Easter... Our Orthodox Easter is end of April this year...

Have a nice day!
Niki

Niki said...

Thanks Docmac and Leigh3!
for the Bibel passage and explanation!

I did look it up in my Bibel, and found the passages before and after interesting too...

(It's a Norwegian version, so can't copy)

The passage before tells about David that had sinned. He had been given everything, his masters house and wifes, the kingdom of Israel and Juda, but it was still not enough...He took the wife of Uria, a hetitt(?) who was killed, to his wife. The punichment of the Lord was not for David to die, but the child he had with this wife. God also said, that while he was comitting a sin "in the dark", God would humiliate him in the daylight. Then he would forgive David. (So was this the reason for the McCanns extrem media-circus? To get free from their sins, they exposed themselfs? To see Madeleines beautiful face everywhere all the time, was "the Lords punishment"?)

The passage after is about David's war against the ammonittes(?). He occupies the city and takes the crown of the kings head and puts it on his own. It was of pure gold and with a jewel. He then puts all the inhabitants to work, takes his army and goes home.
---

It's all about greed, money and power!!

Niki
(if I'm not around the next coupple of weeks, it's because I will start to read the Bibel from the beginning to the end...:))

2345 said...

Felicity,

Thanks for the articles. My focus remains on Police activity in this case and also Mari's.

As with all McCanns' PR, major coverage of the reservoir issue, is a contradiction in terms in many respects. Any 'tip off' is false in relation to substantiated evidence released by Leicester Police on 7 September.

Floor of the reservoir is reported to be thick mud 4' thick - ideal for disposal of heavily weighted body. If Madeleine's heavily weighted body had been deposited (as PR wants us to believe), one of two scenarios would have occurred dependent on weight and timescale. Firstly, a heavily weighted plastic wrapped body would have become completely emerged in the deep mud, rendering it completely untraceable. Or, the plastic wrapped body would have laid on the top or the mud and/or been partly submerged in the mud.

A good example of the 'physical' possibilities and 'impossibilties' - which have to be sifted to determine truth - is the discovery a few years ago of the plastic wrapped weighted body of a female in a deep lake in Cumbria. The husband had murdered and dumped his wife there around 10 years previously. There were no 'giveaway' signs of small items (as dreported in Maddie's case) - the body was recovered as 'packaged' - plastic wrapped and tied with rope.

I'm not taking the bait on this increasingly complex spin on spin on spin. We know there was no abductor, paedophile or otherwise. The 'tip off' is false - a charade.

It's ludicrous to suggest a 'bit of plastic and sock' was discovered by a diver for two reasons - a sock does not remove itself from the foot of a plastic wrapped corpse, nor do bits of plastic tear themselves off. As found in the Lake district discovery, plastic remains in tact for years.

Waters are running deeper and deeper with McCann mechanics .. I'm disregarding Gerry's reported anger in this very complex charade ... reservoir PR and Mari's discovery in a watery grave is not coincidental.

Have the divers handed the alleged finds to police investigators for forensic examination ? I very much doubt it.

2345 said...

Felicity,

Typo in last post - should read "body would become totally 'submerged', not emerged.

2345 said...

Felicity,

P.S. Illegal fraud specialists Metado 3 are reported to be at the reservoir scene ... by their own admission in DE article they were at the scene in Huelva whilst under contract to the McCanns. They themselves said they were offering to assist Mari's parents.

It is not by coincidence that M3 were there or, by their own admission, offered to act illegally in a second 'missing child' investigation in the hands of the Police. It is also not a coincidence several press reports in Mari's case are conflicting and change on a daily basis. The only constant is the strong emphasis placed on PI's advising Marie's parents is NOT Metado 3. conflicting reports


From the deductions I've made, I quite expect the Spanish Police

2345 said...

No news on Shannon of Jersey case since breaking into the second chamber. My guess is that Eddie & Keela are very busy .....

isis said...

cut back McCann coverageLeigh Holmwood guardian.co.uk, Thursday March 13 2008 Article historyAbout this articleClose This article was first published on guardian.co.uk on Thursday March 13 2008. It was last updated at 11:31 on March 13 2008.
Kate and Gerry McCann: threat of legal action forced Express to scale back coverage. Photograph: Getty

Together with Princess Diana and the weather, the case of missing toddler Madeleine McCann has been one of the Daily Express's most popular recurring stories. But no longer, it seems.

Following the threat of legal action from Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry over what their spokesman Clarence Mitchell described as a series of "wildly and grossly defamatory" articles, the paper, together with its Express Newspapers stablemates the Sunday Express, the Daily Star and Daily Star Sunday, has removed all references to the missing girl from its website search engine.

The Daily Express - the most prolific paper in covering the McCann case - has also notably toned down its print coverage over the past few weeks. The paper has not splashed on Madeleine McCann for well over a fortnight. Prior to that, she was regularly the lead story.

It is thought the threat of legal action by the McCanns has forced the Express Newspapers titles to scale back their coverage.

Mitchell confirmed to MediaGuardian.co.uk last week that the McCanns had instructed leading libel law firm Carter-Ruck to push for a settlement with Express Newspapers, although he dismissed as "wildly speculative" reports that the couple wanted £4m.

Readers searching for stories on Madeleine on both the Daily Express and Daily Star websites will struggle to find any mention, with both sites reporting zero articles on their search services despite publishing hundreds since she disappeared in Portugal in May last year.

Despite the removal of references to Madeleine, she remains one of the most popular online search requests among both titles' readers, taking up five of the top nine searches listed on the Express website, including the top three. Princess Diana comes fourth.

On the Daily Star's website, four of the 15 top searches listed are about Madeleine.

A spokesman for Express Newspapers declined to comment on the removal of the articles from the company's websites.

An email from the Daily Express online editor, Geoff Marsh, quoted on the website anorak.co.uk, said: "For operational reasons, some articles previously available on express.co.uk have been temporarily removed. I'm afraid I can't go into any more detail."

Carter-Ruck partner Adam Tudor, who is representing the McCanns, told MediaGuardian.co.uk last week that the complaints against Express Newspapers were ongoing.

However, it is thought the case could be settled imminently.

· To contact the MediaGuardian newsdesk email editor@mediaguardian.co.uk or phone 020 7239 9857. For all other inquiries please call the main Guardian switchboard on 020 7278 2332.
· If you are writing a comment for publication, please mark clearly "for publication".
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2345 said...

DE Back on Form:

Humiliating front page photo and story of Ed Balls (honestly!)rage when cornered by Cameron in Parliament yesterday. Opening paragraph "The shocking extent of Labour's sneering arrogance was laid bare on Budget Day yesterday.
Tory lead David Cameron accused them of imposing the heaviest tax burden in our history. With a laugh and a shrug, Children's Minister Ed Balls sniggeringly retorted "So what?"

Spin doctors went into overdrive to limit the damage, claiming Balls comment was "So weak" ( ???!!!) Aides even put pressure on Hansard, the official record of Commons proceedings to keep the disgraceful outhurst out of the transcript.

Glanced papers earlier in supermarket - DE is the only paper giving front page coverage of politically humiliating incident.

Seems to support reports of Clarrie's fall out with DE doesn't it ? Hope you get to see the picture of the finger poking Labour thug - he couldn't handle the simple truth.

isis said...

New In Town

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:04 pm
Posts: 8 Se reanuda la búsqueda de Madeleine McCann en el Algarve portugués. El objetivo es el pantano de Arade, en Silves, donde se cree que puede estar el cuerpo de la niña.

Renewed the search in Arade where they think the body maybe.

Una investigación privada busca el cuerpo de la pequeña Madeleine McCann en el fondo de un pantano de Arade, en Silves.

A private investigation looking at the bottom of Arade.

Los profesionales que rastrean la zona han encontrado hilos de cuerdas unidas por nudos, sacos de plástico y un calcetín blanco de niña que, por el tipo de tejido, se averigua que podría pertenecer a alguien del norte de Europa o de Inglaterra.

The professionals have found ropes joined with knots, a white childs sock of European possibliy UK origin and plastic sacks.

Esta nueva y costosa investigación está promovida por la Sociedad Portuguesa de Ingeniería y Construcción, empresa de construcción de Portimao, y por el abogado de derechos humanos Marcos Aragao Correia, quien está totalmente convencido de que el cuerpo de la niña se encuentra en el fondo del pantano.

Marcos is total convinced the body is at the bottom of the lake.

Es la segunda vez que se busca a Madeleine en este lugar. La primera fue idea del mismo abogado, cuando apenas habían pasado cinco semanas de la desaparición.

It is the second time this abogado has payed for a search of the lake.

En esta nueva búsqueda participan siete buceadores de la escuela Dive Time de Lagos, apoyados por bomberos voluntarios de Portimao especializados en el rescate de cadáveres en aguas profundas.

6 divers from Dive Time supported by voluntir firemen from Portimao (specialists in rescue of bodies in deep water.

El asistente de Marcos Aragao Correia ha asegurado que tienen "fuentes y pistas creíbles que nos indicaron el lugar donde se encuentra el cadáver de Maddie", a lo que agregó que "hay un 99 por ciento de posibilidades de que el cuerpo de la niña se encuentre allí".

Marcos is 99% sure the body is there.

Este miércoles se amplió el área de búsqueda debido a que la visibilidad en el fondo del pantano es muy reducida. Ahora, se espera la llegada a Portugal de un equipo de la agencia de detectives española Método 3, contratada por los padres de Madeleine como apoyo a la búsqueda de su hija. Kate y Gerry McCann no dan crédito al resultado de esta investigación ya que siguen confiando en que su hija permanezca con vida en algún lugar.

This wednesday the extended the area of the search. Visability is low. Methodo 3 have arrived. They discredit the finds as they are convinced Madeleine is alive.





Top

Penelope1 said...

I found it puzzling that the spin is that the McCanns are against this search. If I were athletic Gerry, I'd be over there with my scuba diving gear helping the search myself.

If the lawyer is correct, and the body was dumped here a coupe of days after she went missing, surely a body find would vindicate the McCanns?

M3 lurking around the search scene is also suspicious.

I reckon that M3 have planted some of Madeline's clothes in the reservoir and bribed the lawyer (who's to say he's not a family or close friend of M3?) to talk about this tip off. We know the McCanns are fond of lawyers - Gerry himself initially said that it was lawyers who would help them find Madeline - and sadly some lawyers, like all people, are bent. But the fact that this claim is being made by a lawyer gives it credence - or the McCanns would think so, being so status-conscious.

So, the spin is being deliberately put out that the McCanns are against the search. Then when they do find a blanket and pair of pink pjyama bottoms (!), the lawyer will then announce that it was a pedeophile tip off, they have admited everything, but sadly are no longer in jurisdiction.

M3 will then release a drawing of the pedeophile, based on the lawyer's description.

Soon there will be sightings of him in Morocco, Germany and Spain. M3's contract will continue on the hunt for Maddie's killer, the fund money will dry up and then the McCanns will assume they'll be off the hook for the fraud charges, as the money was spent on the search for Madeline and her killer.

Gerry must think he's really clever by dissociating himself from the reservoir, but sorry McCanns, you might think you're clever you're just not as clever as all that, and even an amatuer sleuth like myself can work out his game.

irina said...

Hello everyone,

I think that McCann can’t do much in the circumstances. It does not matter for them anymore if fund will dry out by paying to Metodo or if Metodo will continue their "work". They might as well, because Mcs can’t just say to everyone: Look we are going to be charged and convicted because we actually did it. They can’t say it, so they are continuing with whatever...

Here is the thought: they know the end is eminent and now they need to provide support for twins and payment for the house. They need big clean money. From where?
1. False payments to M3
2. Newspaper pay off (not through court)

2345 said...

penelope1,

I share your thoughts exactly. It doesn't stop in and is getting more complex. So many aspects in Mari's case do not add up, the more the parents say the more it becomes obvious 'spinners' are work. The pattern emerging is inconsistent and conflicting accounts. I'm in a rush now, but one example is the pre-emptive public pronouncement of the 'need for a second autopsy as soon as Mari was found. Not only a bizarre comment for grief stricken parents, but explained as "Correio da Manha" ascertains that they were advised to do so by the detective agency that was investigating Mari Luz's disppearance'.

Since refuted by Mr Cortez, who says he 'spoke' to PI's; he trusts the Police but obviously not the results of a 14 man pathology team. Initial report of findings of Mari being killed within 24 - 48 hours of going missing was obviously fabricated.
Such finite timing of death is totally impossible with the state of decomposition. This is the interesting bit, the next press release was that she was alive when she hit the water. Obviously not sourced from police pathologists; their findings have been ruled "secret" by the Judge.
Equally sinister dark waters in this case.

Spanish police have taken soil samples; they're obviously looking into whether her body was moved from another location to the place found. PR reservoir stunt is linked to Mari's location in water; McCann mechanics are very very busy.

viv said...

Hiya all

Maybe we are caught up here with a lot of stuff that is frankly beyond belief.

This Human Rights lawyer claims he received this tip off from some gangland member. Why would a gangland member do this - phone a Human Rights lawyer? Why would he just give some vague description of where Madeleine may have been dumped and lurid details of what happened to her - but not the culprit - what could this possibly achieve, apart from yet more bizarre stories seeking to focus attention away from Kate and Gerry McCann. This story originally surfaced in December when there was a lot of bleak news for the McCanns - the PJ were coming back to re-interview their friends etc. On 3 January the Investigating Judge gave the go ahead, just days after this story of searches in the Damn first broke. Then it re-surfaces when definite plans for the PJ to visit are announced. It really does look like the old Whitehall trick Clarence has mastered from his mate Alistair Campbell of "burying bad news".

One of the lawyers the McCanns actually admit to instructing in Portugal is a Human Rights lawyer. What a coincidence here is another one helping them out! Gerry also said in yesterday's article I posted (23 May 2007) well one of the things the fund had enable them to do was get a really good legal team around them. So I think this Mr Correio was one of them. When were they accountable about how the fund was actually being spent and who was paying for what. There has been utter confusion as to who is actually paying the massive Retardo fees, with the D/g man also announcing he was paying them. Mr Correio's fees and the divers fees could have been paid directly from the fund or via the Retardos. They are relatively small sums of cash, given that Clarence is intimating about £7-800,000 has already been spent. If you add up the Retardos fees and the £80,000 advertising campaign that only comes to about £380,000 - so where did all the rest of it go!

I have to say this is just more fantastic rubbish, it would seem, and the chances of Madeleine being found in there utterly remote. I am disappointed but this is certainly the way it would appear.

If this was a genuine search then the police would be co-operating in it. It does not appear that they are and if the Retardos take charge of evidence recovered, rather than the police, this renders the evidence utterly worthless.

viv said...

THE MCCANNS AND THE DAILY EXPRESS

So, as we know, the McCanns have been frantically casting around via their trusty Rottweiler for various means of grabbing another huge stash of cash. Two seem to be in the pipeline - a deal with ITV to take part in some documentary about lack of a co-ordinated amber alert system in Europe. The sickening spin goes "this could have saved Madeleine". Oh please! I think the only reason that ITV would agree to have these two on a documentary is because they are a very commercially minded channel and really dont care what offensive rubbish they put on, just so long as it increases ratings. They have treated us to such gems as "Neighbours from Hell". Given the McCanns are to feature in this, apparently, perhaps it could be called "Parents from Hell" or did they already do that title?

Come on Kate and Gerry there is only one reason ITV would pay you a wad of cash to appear - the infamy ratings you would inevitably produce. Is anyone seriously going to want you to lecture on effective means of safeguarding children ? I really dont think so!

So in this quest for cash - the Daily Express and their huge coffers have been hungrily focussed on also. Some disreputable fraudsters actually make a really good living out of becoming "serial litigants". There is one guy who goes to Employment Tribunals all over the land make spurious claims of race discrimination. He does not always win and has got himself a really bad name, but for some he has got a handsome payout. He writes applying for jobs that he is simply not qualified to do and then when he does not get them, claim he was discriminated against because of his race. The McCanns got their abusive little internet monkies on the Daily Express and now want to sue them. But oh, actually they do not! People who have a serious claim for defamation do not have to prat about threatening to sue, they just do it. Clarence has been careful to stress there have been no injunctions and no writs issued. No, the McCanns just want a "settlement". So what they are hoping to do with the Daily Express is extract a load of cash out of them, without even bothering to issue any proceedings. That will be really nice for them - they will get their grasping mits on a load of cash, but do not have to go to court and explain what happened on 3 May. Well if I was the Daily Express's lawyer I would tell them to go and sue or shut up and go away! It sounds just like blackmail to me - STAND FIRM DAILY EXPRESS!

viv said...

THIS IS AN ARTICLE ABOUT THE SERIAL LITIGANT I REFER TO ABOVE - MR DEMAN. As will be seen on five occasions he extracted a "settlement" from employers, rather than them having to pay massive legal costs to defend his spurious claims. He was declared a vexatious litigant and so went to Ireland! Similarly Clarence speaks of an endless list of people and organisations the McCanns intend to sue and in this instance, given they clearly do not want to go to court and explain events on 3 May whilst they are still arguidos wants to extract a "settlement" from the Daily Express. They now tell us Madeleine is "still alive" and this will go into the fund. The fund that has as one its clauses stating the aim is to "support the family" - with a team of lawyers and a big mortgage to pay no doubt which they are struggling with since Kate became unsuitable to work as a GP any longer. NO doubt this used to at least pay their mortgage..

Race-claims lecturer beats legal ban to carry on suing after 40 discrimination claims
By CHRIS BROOKE - More by this author »

Last updated at 09:14am on 19th November 2007

Comments (67)

It was never going to be easy stopping Suresh Deman cashing in on Britain's rights culture.


For a decade he sued universities - usually claiming racial bias over failed job applications - as he collected nearly £200,000 in payouts and cost the taxpayer an estimated £1million.


The finance lecturer brought at least 40 cases to employment tribunals before the Attorney General last year had him declared a 'vexatious litigant' and banned him from bringing further claims.

That, then, should have been that. Mr Deman, however, had other ideas and this week sees him back before a tribunal, once again claiming discrimination.

Scroll down for more...


Action man: Suresh Deman has brought at least 40 cases

It turns out that the ban on him bringing further cases does not apply to Northern Ireland because the province has a separate judicial body.

As a result, the 53-year-old academic is pursuing a claim dating back 11 years against the Association of University Teachers and Officers (AUT).

The case is being heard, at public expense, at a fair employment tribunal in Belfast. It has already lasted nine days and is far from finished.

With Mr Deman representing himself, proceedings have been delayed by a succession of objections, legal applications and complaints from the claimant.

Scroll down for more...



In his latest case, the serial litigant is claiming to have been a victim of race, religious, sexual and political discrimination.


His case goes back to 1994-95 when Mr Deman was a temporary member of the Queen's University teaching staff.

The academic claims he was the victim of discrimination when the AUT failed to offer him the same legal advice it gave to another member of staff, Beverley Carroll.

Mrs Carroll, a clerical research assistant, made a claim against Mr Deman for harassment in February 1995 and four months later the university informed him he would not be appointed full-time.

Mr Deman, from London, is said to have been abusive to Mrs Carroll after blaming her for not notify him of a staff meeting.


In the four years before his ban, Mr Deman clocked up 210 days of tribunals and was regularly accused of time-wasting tactics.

So far in this latest Belfast case he has tried in vain to have a journalist from the Daily Mail removed from the public hearing, requested a switch to another building and accused the panel chairman of being biased against him.

Mr Deman, who is married and from a Hindu background, is a U.S. citizen and describes himself as Indian-American. He was a teaching fellow at Pittsburgh University and got his first taste of litigation when he won £23,000 damages for his dismissal there.

His first job in the UK was at Queen's and he received £30,000 in an out of court settlement 10 years after leaving. He is believed to have applied for at least 1,000 academic posts, even though he was often unqualified.


If he was not shortlisted or interviewed, a racial discrimination claim might follow. He often put in alternative applications under a non-Asian name such as 'Phil White' to compare the results.

Five universities or colleges made payouts to settle actions to avoid the expense of fighting cases and four paid damages.

Last year, in banning him from pursuing future tribunals, the judge, Mr Justice Underhill, said Mr Deman 'has an obsession that he is a victim of racial discrimination which exists without reference to the evidence in any particular case'.

Dogmad said...

Hi Viv - not good on captions. Mine's a bit corny therefore -

"Can you identify this ludicrous man nearly always wearing a trademark pink shirt?"!!

leigh3 said...

Niki,

You understand these issues at the deepest level, imo. The spiritual dimension of the McCann dilemma can only be understood by people who know what it is to live their faith, and betray their faith, imo.

It's odd in the modern world, but maybe the modern world needs humility more than money.

God bless you, Niki. God bless the McCanns too, imo. 'Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future.' I like that phrase, but of course, it only applies to sincere people, regardless of their religious or political affiliation (or lack of).

Sincerity, Niki. We believe in this.

Easter comes soon. A time of reflection.

xo
Leigh3

leigh3 said...

Isis.
Re: Guardian.
You clever thing :-) You clever human being. I guess the McCann Machine of media manipulators and robotic thought police must add you to their list of targets.

Wear it with pride, Isis, imo.

See ya next time, clever human being.

leigh3 said...

Hi Viv,
Just catching up with posts, and replying one by one.

Re: DE. It's a no win situation for the McCanns. If they win in the short term, they lose in the medium term. If they fail to get a payment, they lose...blah, blah, blah.

Tsk. Amateurs! So tiresome.

Clarence: enjoy the moment. It will end suddenly, and finally. Game over.

It's all such tripe. Nonsense. A waste of time. For what? Over the body of a dead girl.

Nice one, Clarry. See you in court, eventually.

penelope1 said...

Hi Viv,

Re: "settlement" with the DE, is not Clarence Mitchell making enemies for himself? Surely he will need another job once the McCanns face the music, or, is he getting a percentage of the takings?

In any case, I think the McCanns are ill advised to take action against the DE.

Remember the actress Gillian Taylforth who used to play Cathy Beal in EastEnders, who she took the Sun and the Police to court for defamation, and the tabloids dragged up even dirtier stuff on her (remember, the video where she boasted about a particular sexual skill at a party?). She lost the case, all credibility and was left with a bill of £500K

The tabloids aren't feared for nothing. Unless CM has it all sewn up with Max Clifford, the McCanns could be in for a fall.

I'd say there are a lot of journalists just dying to counter the spin. And the DE will have very good lawyers.

Gosh, the McCanns must realise that time is running out - they are grasping for as much cash as they can.

docmac said...

Hi Niki and Leigh

You guys are way ahead of me on the religious interpretations, but what you have written makes perfect sense in this context. Very interesting.

leigh3 said...

Penelope,

Yup, I agree. However, there's still time for rats to jump from the sinking ship.

Personally, I think humans make mistakes; that's what we do. Yet we also have the capacity to forgive the true repentant.

It's 'make your mind up' time for many people involved in the 'disappearance' of lil Madeleine Beth McCann.

How we treat anyone concerned will be a mark of our souls, our society, our character, imo.

I am severe sometimes with the McCann Machine of media mechanics, but only because I want them to make a conscious choice - not a 'no brainer' 'winner takes all' cynical 'get the money and run' option.

Madeleine Beth McCann is dead, imo. Madeleine Beth McCann must not die in vain, as so many children have done before her.

The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth will illuminate her fate, and our true aims for children everywhere, imo.

Civilisation: a long, hard march toward a better future. No one's perfect; everyone has a duty as a citizen of the world, I think.

Great to see you again, Penelope1. You posted few, but interesting words on DE.

leigh3 said...

Dear Docmac,

Lovely to see you again. No one is ever ahead of you :-) Life's a time effort, hey? I can't do science, and save lives. That's your job.

'Man cannot live by bread alone.'

Here's a deal: you heal the bodies; I'll care for the souls in my own little way. You can do both. I can only do one.

Pax.

One problem: I lose my patience with McCann mechanics too easily.

viv said...

Hiya all

Re the Daily Express - I reckon they have gone as far as they are prepared to go in offering a settlement by removing all articles from the online forum. This is a win and a lose for the McCanns because so many of those articles were what Clarence wanted them to print. They are already talking tough in terms of saying well they can come to court and explain events on 3 May. They can afford the very best lawyers and would always have known exactly what they were doing and had the very best of legal advice.

Articles are only defamatory if they are false. The article I posted "THE MCCANNS ARE LYING" is quite obviously not false. I believe the Express know far more about this case than we do. They know enough to be quite certain the McCanns are guilty and so, IMO, they have nothing to fear. Remember they have had reporters out there but would be prohibited from printing specifics directly from witnesses - this does not stop them knowing! It is inconceivable the McCanns would actually issue a writ for libel whilst they are arguidos accused of killing Madeleine. They will have to back down IMO and it will be humiliating for them. It is always a bad strategy to issue threats unless you actually intend to back them up - Clarence sounds weak here stressing there are no writs etc. they just want a settlement. I think they have got as much as they are going to get out of the Daily Express. Also, note, the Express state the articles have been "temporarily removed". I think they will have some very tough lawyers saying to Carter Ruck well put up or shut up. Issue a writ by May at the latest because then we are putting all the articles back. I do not profess to be any expert on libel law but read the limitation period is one year from publication which will expire in May.

Just reading back now..

Penelope1 said...

Leigh3,

Thanks for the kind words. X

Docmac,

Here's a post I made earlier today about the reservoir, which puzzled me greatly, I've come up with a theory. Let me know what you think.

-------------------------
I found it puzzling that the spin is that the McCanns are against this search. If I were athletic Gerry, I'd be over there with my scuba diving gear helping the search myself.

If the lawyer is correct, and the body was dumped here a coupe of days after she went missing, surely a body find would vindicate the McCanns?

M3 lurking around the search scene is also suspicious.

I reckon that M3 have planted some of Madeline's clothes in the reservoir and bribed the lawyer (who's to say he's not a family or close friend of M3?) to talk about this tip off. We know the McCanns are fond of lawyers - Gerry himself initially said that it was lawyers who would help them find Madeline - and sadly some lawyers, like all people, are bent. But the fact that this claim is being made by a lawyer gives it credence - or the McCanns would think so, being so status-conscious.

So, the spin is being deliberately put out that the McCanns are against the search. Then when they do find a blanket and pair of pink pjyama bottoms (!), the lawyer will then announce that it was a pedeophile tip off, they have admited everything, but sadly are no longer in jurisdiction.

M3 will then release a drawing of the pedeophile, based on the lawyer's description.

Soon there will be sightings of him in Morocco, Germany and Spain. M3's contract will continue on the hunt for Maddie's killer, the fund money will dry up and then the McCanns will assume they'll be off the hook for the fraud charges, as the money was spent on the search for Madeline and her killer.

Gerry must think he's really clever by dissociating himself from the reservoir, but sorry McCanns, you might think you're clever you're just not as clever as all that, and even an amatuer sleuth like myself can work out his game.

Thursday, 13 March 2008 14:16:00 o'clock GMT

leigh3 said...

Penelope1.
Re: Clarence and Max. You've got that right.

It's an interesting dilemma for them both.

PRs are shallow, although the successful ones do think beyond short term gain, imo.

We'll see, won't we?

BTW, I'm West London. Proximity is useful :-)

docmac said...

Leigh it's a deal :-)

docmac said...

Hi Penelope1

I can't fault that logic at all. Surely Metodo's job has always been precisely that-misleading the press and misdirecting the public. As for trusting any lawyer, well..

If Mr Correia were to slip and fall into the reservoir, how would one prevent him from drowning? Shoot him before he hits the water.

leigh3 said...

Hiya Viv,

Must agree with you again. Your patience is greater than mine, but then you are the law graduate; I am not.

BTW: it's 6 years, strictly speaking. However, it is a nano second when patience is lost, and liars need a kick up the ...

'Put up or shut up,' said McCann supporters.

What goes around comes around is an English saying.

It's coming around. Bet on it, Clarry, former employee of ...the Daily Express, and the BBC.

Interesting how he is most infuriated by his former employers. Sour grapes; settling his old scores perhaps; a chance for him via his clients and most recent former employer (The Labour Government) to play the 'big man'?

Yup. Just like Gerry, imo; the men from nowhere think they are 'calling the shots'.

Oh so no. They are not :-) Slowly, slowly catchy monkey...

Great pix of the relevant location, btw, Viv. 'A picture paints a thousand words.'

When we saw the pictures of PDL, we knew it was wrong to suggest that the McCanns distance from their infants was like dining at the end of the garden. It wasn't. Why would any honest person say that?

Whe we see the lake in Portugal, we know it's a very big, beautiful place; the kind of place a criminal might dispose of a body.

We'll see, in time. Time tells all.

viv said...

Hiya Penelope

Yes Taylworth is a good example where she did not have a clean sheet but still tried to take the press on and took a terrible pounding and then we have the tory trio...taking Al Fayed on is probably even dafter! Shame about the Queen and Prince Philip ..

I think the overwhelming thing we need to keep in mind with the Damn of Arade etc is that we have two distinctly separate investigations going on here. Firstly, we have the official investigation by PJ/Leics Police and all the official prosecution witnesses/lying defendants that encompasses. Then we have the investigation by Metodo 3 and Hogan International etc for the McCanns. Any evidence and witnesses the choose to produce are outside of the official police investigation, their obvious purpose being to provide alternatives to the police case as to what actually happened to little Madeleine. Mr Correio with the Retardos, I am afraid, clearly falls into the second category and therefore like all of the rest of the rubbish we have heard from Granny Cooper etc just cannot be taken seriously.

I wonder if the PJs will continue to proceed slowly with this investigation - that would be very helpful to the Daily Express..the McCanns must issue a writ in May or go away! They seem to be banking on the idea the case will get dropped but time is running out for them. I think I read the PJs may not come back here until after Easter - oh what a shame!

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

It is 6 years for general tort and contract claims, 3 years for personal injury but definitely only one year for libel - see below:

Viv x

Delay in Defamation Actions - Time is of The Essence
The Court of Appeal in Phillip John Steedman & Ors v The BBC [2001] EWCA Civ 1524 (23 October 2001) has emphasised the importance of pursuing defamation actions vigorously and expeditiously. If no action is taken against an alleged libel or slander within one year 'from the date on which the cause of action occurred' (section 4A of the Limitation Act 1980), it will be time barred.

It also pointed out that the court will be very slow to exercise its discretion (section 32A of the Limitation Act 1980) to disapply the one year limitation period. That discretion could be applied by the court if it appears to the court that it would be equitable to allow a defamation action to proceed having regard to the degree to which the operation of section 4A of the Act prejudices the plaintiff and any decision of the court would prejudice the defendant.

Defamation And The Ever Decreasing Limitation Period
The time limit for defamation actions has been progressively reduced: from 6 years to 3 years in 1984 and again from 3 years to one year in 1996. The rationale is set out in the recommendations of the working group of the Supreme Court Procedure Committee under the Chairmanship of Lord Justice Neill. Among others, the reasons for this ever decreasing trend are:

The general recognition that claims to protect one's reputation ought to be pursued with vigour, especially in view of the ephemeral nature of most media publications.
Memories fade. Journalists and their sources scatter and become, not infrequently, untraceable. Notes and other records are retained only for a short period, not least because of limitations on storage.
The current Pre-Action Protocol For Defamation, emphasizes that there are important features which distinguish defamation claims from other areas of civil litigation. In particular, time is always of the essence in defamation claims; the limitation period is (uniquely) only one year, and almost invariably a claimant will be seeking an immediate correction and/or apology as part of the process of restoring his/her reputation. A letter of claim should be made to the defendant at "the earliest reasonable opportunity".

Balancing Prejudice
David Steel LJ said that the discretion afforded by section 32A requires the court to balance any prejudice to the claimant on the one hand and the defendant on the other in allowing the action to proceed or otherwise. All the circumstances of the case must be had regard to in assessing the justice of the matter with particular reference to the length of, and reasons for, the delay and the extent to which the passage of time since the expiration of the limitation period has had an impact on the availability or cogency of relevant evidence.

The Facts Of The Case
On the evening of the 11 January 1999 the claimants were 8 Metropolitan police officers who were called to an incident at Tottenham. The incident concerned a Mr Roger Sylvester. The claimants say that he was apparently locked out of his house and was causing a disturbance in the street. The claimants contend that they detained Mr Sylvester pursuant to the provisions of the Mental Health Act and transported him to hospital. There he suffered a respiratory failure and, following transfer to two other hospitals, his life support machine was switched off on 18 January 1999.

Mr Sylvester's funeral took place on 16 April 1999. That day, as part of the Newsroom Southeast bulletin of local news for the BBC1 Breakfast Programme, the transmission complained of was made:

'The family and supporters of Roger Sylvester are expected to gather in North London today for his funeral. Mr Sylvester died in January, after being restrained by eight police officers. This morning a procession will travel through Tottenham to Summerhill Road where he was killed.'

For some bizarre reason the claimants' solicitors did not issue proceedings within the one year limitation period. Despite them having an almost cast iron case against the solicitors, the claimants asked the Court of Appeal to exercise its discretion under section 32A and disapply the one year limitation provision; Sir Oliver Popplewell, an experienced judge in the defamation field, having earlier refused their application.

Defendant's Ability To Defend
Even though the defendant accepted that the incremental delay between the end of the limitation period and the issue of the claim form had had no material impact on its ability to defend the claim, the Court of Appeal held that in these circumstances, whilst the effect of any delay on the ability of the defendant to defend a defamation action remains important in the assessment of the justice of the matter, it is not to be regarded as in any way decisive. Accordingly, the Court refused to exercise its discretion to disapply the one year limitation period.

When The Discretion May Be Applied
Brooke LJ stated that under the following circumstances a court might properly be willing to exercise its discretion in favour of a claimant under section 32A:

Cases where it would be manifestly unjust to allow a defendant to take advantage of a very small slippage of time
Where the claimant is awaiting the outcome of other investigations, but has made its complaint. In Khalil v Bennett [2000] EMLR 996, indeed, the Court of Appeal reinstated a libel action when the claimant had delayed pursuing it while waiting for the outcome of other proceedings, but in that case he had issued his writ only a few days after the publication of the articles complained of.
Conclusion
Potential claimants and their solicitors should consider this case carefully, which has made it plain that the courts are very unlikely to entertain applications to waive the one year limitation rule which applies to defamation and malicious falsehood, unless they are presented with cogent evidence that the claimants took seriously the opportunity to vindicate their reputation from the very outset. Such evidence was woefully lacking in this case. The claimants offered no explanations for why they did not instantly seek a retraction from the BBC, or make any other sort of complaint about the broadcasts, until long after the time when these might be expected to have any effect upon those to whom they considered that they had been defamed. This made it difficult for the Court to conclude that vindication of their reputations was uppermost in their minds at any time. In such circumstances they had not made out a sufficient case of prejudice to justify the disapplication of the normal rule.

Publishers and the media in general can take some comfort in the outcome of this case. In the context of the Internet where defamation is common place and insurance premiums reflect the risk, hopefully insurers will see this as reducing that risk, keeping premiums a little lower.

NEED TO KNOW MORE?

Penelope1 said...

Hi Docmac,

Its been a long time since we've all been working on this case - lots of brains - I do hope the police or the PJ have been reading. There seem to be quite a lot of experts.

If they do get arrested and charged, it will be quite a trial.

I hope the DNA evidence you commented about on the DE forum will stand up in court - as you said, its irrefutable.

leigh3 said...

Thank you, Viv. You are right, however the words 'should be made' still apply. Perhaps the words 'time barred' is not the same thing as permanently barred.

Libel law = a rich man's law. Rich men challenge 'shoulds', imo.

It's not over til it's over...

Just a thought, compadre.

docmac said...

Penelope, the funny thing is I've got this feeling that the PJ have enough witness statements to make Jane Tanner crack at their next confrontation. If that happens the Tapas' story is going to fold like a pack of cards and each one will be out to save their own skin. If that comes about, Gerry and Kate are going to be extremely exposed. The DNA is, I think, not the evidence on which the case will hang, but will be the cherry on top.

hope4truth said...

Good night all see you tomorrow xxx

viv said...

Dogmad - loooooool love your caption can you identify this ludicrous thing in a pink shirt

I thought of one

can you just put me down now duckie..

southerncross said...

Hella Viv,Leigh,Penelope

Docmac, I have left a message for tulpie on Alsabellas site. Our communications in Afrikaans has certainly created even more paranoia on rosiepoephols site

viv said...

Hope

Can you just enter the caption competition before you go?

BTW I voted for myself on supertroll as having five ID's on here:-) Please all vote for me!

viv said...

Hiya Docmac

Have you been driving them crazy again? Excellant! but there again they were already there...

leigh3 said...

I agree: DNA is important; it is not the resolution of this case; other methods and findings resolve this case.

McCann Machine revels in boasting that there is no conclusive DNA evidence.

So what? So stupid robots, imo. Shall we declare innocent everyone ever convicted before DNA science was available?

No. I don't think so.

docmac said...

Southerncross

Ek het daar geantwoord.

southerncross said...

Docmac,jip ek het gesien dankie

viv said...

Southerncross - hiya

But did they have anything to say about where Madeleine is?

Oh, are they talking about Murat and Malinka again? Well come on if you wipe your computer hard drive you quite obviously go around abducting children, raping them, murdering them and dumping them in a damn, dont you??? Logical enough deduction I am sure.

Must tell Luke not to do that again!

docmac said...

Viv

No way! I only have to breathe and they're pissed off. Did you see JaneGT's post about blowing me up with a bomb? She previously posted to me on the DE that I would be dead in 3 hours for sure. Very strange lady. The really weird thing is that the rest defend this kind of stuff and some even find it amusing.

hope4truth said...

Viv Damn I did not read it just saw the picture and laughed then made a serious point (and spelt everything wrong as I am so tiered) I will have another go....

George wont be there this time if you win Viv xxx

Penelope1 said...

Docmac,

Read your post. Yes, it would be great if the DNA was just the cherry on top. Realistically, there are lots of other witnesses - bar staff, cleaning staff, holiday makers - with no loyalty or agenda, so the T9 might end up looking v foolish indeed.

Just had a look at the "dark side". They have now resorted to referring to Gerry as "Dr McCann". Oh vomit! I do know you are a real doctor andI'm from a medical family myself.

Calling Gerry "Dr McCann" reminds me of an Irish joke we tell about the infamous pushy mothers from the south of teh country:

"My son, the engineer, is drowning"

leigh3 said...

Southerncross.

We've never posted directly, but if your Afrikaans irritates the McNasties, then perhaps they need to learn tolerance, and respect - or in the words of the inimitable comedy 'Father Ted', they may understand a simple Irish Catholic phrase delivered to ignorants: 'Feck off!'

Ha! Father Ted still makes me laugh. Humour is a good medicine, and a good defence against aggression perhaps.

See ya next time, Southerncross. Smile we must, hey...

hope4truth said...

"You see the picture? well take a good look at it people because that was me in April last year and now look at me"

"Dont use spin it is hard on your blood preasure and makes you look old before your time"

"Just say NO"....

2345 said...

Felicity,

PR aim is, predictably, brainwashing the gullible. The public are being asked to believe that Mari & Madeleine were both abducted, killed by same evil predator who disposed of both victims in water. Gerry's part in the charade is to feign anger at the (false) tip off that Madeleine was dumped by paeodo because he still lives in hope of her being alive. A staged production, including 'finds' - to support McCanns plea of abduction as the net closes and raise public sympathy for Gerry who still believes Maddie is alive.

Reasons for M 3's illegal involvement in Mari's case, plus many other observations and inconsistencies in behaviours and reports point to second spine chilling scenario. I strongly suspect this is the reason for soil samples taken by Spanish police when Mari was found. Their 'thinking' will be the same as PJ's when the McCanns first phoned them.

M 3 work 'underground; are privvy to moneymaking tip offs, i.e. drug trafficking, criminal activity. The gypsy fraternity is a closed shop to the likes of the police, but not operators such as M 3 -sent out armed with cash for bribery - false witnesses etc. to aid and abet their employers the McCanns. They're clearly happy with results, having just renewed a highly lucrative contract.

IF M 3 had an underground whisper that a child had been accidentally killed within the gypsy fraternity, I have absolutely no doubt that M 3 would make noises and wave money in peoples' faces for a deal which protected gypsies best interests alongside the McCanns; M 3's focus is always their lucrative paymaster. My instincts tell me Spanish Police have been conferring with PJ; they will not have ruled out family's involvement. Reports have been no sexual abuse - expect this to be altered after this post is read by the monitors. This has happened 3 times already. There's discomforture and continual alterations.

There is only one of two reasons why the parents would envisage a need for a second autopsy; they either do not trust the 14 man Spanish pathology team, or they fear forensic findings. Mr Cortez's comments are McCann style - "we do trust the police".
Actions show otherwise.

If my child had gone missing and had been found in Mari's condition, it would not cross my mind to do anything other than leave it to the Police pathologists to confirm cause of death. Any innocent parent would react in this way; too grief stricken to think beyond the fact that she had been found dead with a severe head injury.

I noticed at the outset that the parents PR was almost identical to the McCanns, style of reporting and content - amateurish. This and Metado 3 presence and offer of help showed something was very 'wrong' about Mari's disappearance. It's worse than my first conclusion - she'd been handed to relatives, out of sight. The first report said Mari had not been in water for the duration ... she was concealed and placed in water to support McCann mechanics mind bending reservoir charade.

I feel sick, the behaviour in this case is evil beyond belief ... the McCanns will stop at nothing. I know this will shock you tremendously. It's too vile to discuss - leave it be - Mari's case is in good hands - 14 man team Police pathologists will find the answers.





The realization which hit me hard between the eyes where Mari was found in water - suggestionMadeleine in the reservoir, Mari when she was placed abductedin both cases

hope4truth said...

Oh flaming heck now I have posted it in the wrong place and I have lost my bin and I cant delete it...

Sorry can you move it to the right place for me Viv I have had a very long day xxx

viv said...

Doc

I just thought of a great new name for Psychopops webpage

Nuts Anonymous!

I could not get over them bragging to each other, before they knew we were reading it, how they post vile anon posts on here and Alsa.

Maybe even Prats Anon..

Did you see how Calcite figure out I am actually a man - she cleverly tracked down my DE avitar of er George Clooney ...still laughing.

viv said...

Seen your caption hope - splendid! I knew I could count on your for a good un!

Stay on here hope bugger the other place! This is where we are at!

southerncross said...

Hi Viv,Leigh

Viv,I always try to read with an objective approach and open mind(that is my philosophy and profession), and in my opinion
there is not much thought or compassion directed to the "situation Maddie fonds herself in" over there.

Leigh,thank you and I agree love and laughter and keeping the moral high ground is what matters

viv said...

Besides hope we dont want Clarence getting all cocky seeing loads of posts under his avitar, now do we! Might think we like him, like to laugh at him:-)

hope4truth said...

Right now I am off to bed Sports Relief tomorrow so no doubt we will be running around the car park and having office chair races to raise some cash so best get my sports relief socks out and go to bed...

Night all xxx

Penelope1 said...

2345

I'm a bit tired now - are you saying that the gypsie family allowed their daughter to be killed in return for cash from M3, in order to help support the McCanns' Madeline theories.

It would not surprise me. Romanians sell their babies on the internet Drug addicted mothers prostitute out their sons and daughters for a fix.

Just think how desparate the McCanns must be right now - I'd say they are going out of their minds. Well, Kate is at least, if she's not already valium'ed out of it. Gerry as has been said, is clearly master minding these divertions and now distancing himself from Kate according to Rat on thebeam on Alsabella's blog.

If it turns out they are guilty of accidental death/manslaughter, perverting the course of justice, taking money under false pretences....whoah! They will be infamous for hundreds of years in both legal, criminal and media history.

leigh3 said...

2345.
Yup. Noted. Let's rely on it, in time.

docmac said...

Penelope

Yes I read that your dad? was an old-fashioned family doctor. Probably did house calls a lot. That still happens here, especially in the smaller towns and villages. I don't get involved in UK politics much, but Nu Labour have created a monster with the GPs in the NHS that they are battling to control. The government has won a small recent battle regarding evening and Saturday opening hours but the horse has already bolted in my opinion.

leigh3 said...

Southerncross.
I wish I could say this in Afrikaans, but I can't: 'love, laughter...the moral high ground...', as you say. Yes. I agree.

See you next time.

docmac said...

Viv

She thought your avatar was you? lolol! I've got a Clooney joke for you, but I need to have a sandwich. Give me 5 mins.

viv said...

Hiya 2345

What an interesting post.

Surely the reports coming out there was no sexual abuse do not help the McCanns at all. What they have always wanted people to believe is that evil paedos took Madeleine and Mari Luz.

I have to keep an open mind on Mari Luz case because there is secrecy of justice - we genuinely have so little information. But I will say from what I have heard about her finger nails being removed is that IMO this is the work of a sadistic murderer who likes to torture, or, as the parents suspect, a revenge attack by others within the gypsy fraternity that Mr Cortez upset. There are reports even her eyes and face were missing - true this could have been done by rats or fishes etc but not the fingernails that was done by humans.

Only the most insane of parents would do such a thing to their own child.

The only links I see between the Mari Luz case and the Madeleine case are the ones the McCanns tried to create with the double posters against the wishes of the family and immediately sending the REtardos to badger them. That was quite simply disgusting. So was the McCanns very public messages of sympathy - to innocent parents this would have been the most awful additional trauma for them.

I really do think we have to be clear here that I suspected the McCanns from the very outset, but I never publically came out and said so until October 2007 on the Daily Express, when I could see that those suspicions were reasonable because on the basis of evidence collected against them, they were made arguidos. This is not the case with the Cortez family and I think we should keep an open mind.

leigh3 said...

Night night, Darlings.

Patience, and perseverance; a team effort by police inquiry backed by the public, and the errant Press compromised by libel law. It's imperfect. It works, imo.
xo
Leigh3

viv said...

Hiya 2345 and Penelope

I am concerned at suggestions the McCanns had anything at all to do with the death of Mari Luz. Please do not continue to say this because I think it is seriously libellous.

leigh3 said...

Night night, Viv.

Re: Mari. This is very murky water in every sense, imho. Pity her fate has been press ganged into service of the McCann Machine, as I see it. I could be wrong there. Perhaps it is merely coincidence that M3 and the McCanns pounced on the case of this missing Spanish girl.

I see Clarence now uses the phrase 'no evidence of...'.

Hi Clarry. Try this one: no evidence of an abduction.

Say cheese, Anonymouse. The King Rat must be fed.

Ta ra, Viv. Tomorrow is another day...

docmac said...

A woman was sitting at a bar enjoying an after work cocktail with her girlfriends when an
exceptionally tall, handsome, extremely sexy middle-aged man entered. He was so striking
that the woman could not take her eyes off him. The young-at-heart man noticed her overly attentive stare and walked directly toward her (as men do).

Before she could offer her apologies for staring so rudely, he leaned over and whispered to her, "Do you know who I am? I'm George Clooney and I'll do anything, absolutely anything,
that you want me to do, no matter how kinky, for just $20.00 only on one condition..."

Flabbergasted, the woman asked what the condition was. The man replied, "You have to tell me what you want me to do in just three words."The woman considered his proposition for a moment, and then slowly removed a $20.00 bill
from her purse, which she pressed into the hand of the world's sexiest actor along with her
address. She looked deeply into his eyes, and slowly and meaningfully said... "Clean my house."

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

I think it is reasonable to comment upon information in the public domain and it is a fact that M3 rushed to the Cortez family and the McCanns decided to print posters against their wishes. Mr Cortez had made plain he wants nothing to do with the McCanns and does not see any link - but still they have sought to foist themselves upon him. This does display an intention to link the two cases, where, IMO, there is no link. Their motives in doing so are very sinister, but beyond that I do not think we should go. We simply do not have the information.

Nite Nite Leigh xxxxxx

Penelope1 said...

Hi DOcmac,

That's right. He was a dermatologist and worked in a hospital in the morning but in the afternoons and evenings as a GP. A lot of younger doctors couldn't understand this but this is what this what his own Dad did, and I think that keeping in touch with genera practise was good for the dermatology, and vice versa. He would do house calls every day. Even when he wasn't called out, if he was passing the house of a paitent he was worried about, or was old and living alone, he'd call in for a few mins to check them out. A really wise and compassionate man he was.

However, he strongly believed the the studies that said 15% of all cot deaths were murder.

My Mum's father was also a doctor. Apparantly he was sick of people coming into his surgery telling him that they ate nothing but still could not lose weight. His private joke to himself was "no-one was overweight in a Soviet labour camp" :-)

docmac said...

Night Leigh, Viv and everyone.
Sleep well.

viv said...

Hiya Doc

Loved the joke - and judging by the comments I got about my living room, he would feel obliged to do that first!

leigh3 said...

Docmac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hilarious, but how very dare you speak of George that way. I will inform the future Mrs George Clooney of this.

It is my duty as the future self-appointed Maid of Honour, and caterer for the honoured guest, Opus. Herrings all round!

docmac said...

Penelope, just saw your reply as I was leaving. It seems your dad was a wonderful man who studied and practised medicine for the right reasons. A dying breed, it's a shame. It's all about money and status now, isn't it?

I can tell you that my inspiration was my dad's mum, who was the first ever woman to qualify from a very famous medical school in the UK. She was a surgeon, but in latter years did locums for GPs until she was almost 90!

Nice to hear about the true carers again. Goodnight once more.

docmac said...

And to Leigh and Viv, again!!
Not coming back tonight :-)

Penelope1 said...

Docmac,

Thank you for your kind words. You are one the true doctors yourself, or so it seems. Good night.

viv said...

Nite Nite Doc

Great to see you here tonight:-)

Leigh

No problem darling, I would expect him to make the bed! I could sit and gaze at him whilst doing so ..I hope Supertroll emailed him - not that he would be bothered but he would probably have a laugh if he did ...and I would just love to know what he thinks of the McCanns. At least he is rich and famous for all the right reasons

WE LOVE YOU GEORGE:-)

Penelope1 said...

Night Viv, Leigh and 2345,

I really enjoy this calm and rational discussion.

Viv, you're doing a great job. X

leigh3 said...

Dear Viv,

Re: Mari

Your words: '...but beyond that I do not think we should go. We simply do not have the information.'

I agree, compadre. Also: we have our own missing and abused children. Focus is important now, yes? I know you will say yes because you always focus :-)

Night, Viv. See you soon.

xo

leigh3 said...

Penelope and Docmac.

You, the children of good medics. Lovely.

Perhaps it's true: evolution is more important than revolution. Kindness and knowledge are king and queen of our world; a very thoughtful, mild monarchy, it is.

Bless you. xo

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

Yes I do focus on the facts, and the reasonable inferences we can draw from them .. that is the way I am:-)


xxxxxxxxx

viv said...

Nite Nite Penelope

I am glad you enjoy posting here and look forward to reading you again tomorrow.


xxxxxx

leigh3 said...

Oops! Just for the record:-

When I say 'we', I mean 'we' in the UK.

Got that Clarry, and Anonymouse? Copy and paste, mate. See where that gets you.

Libel. It goes both ways.

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

You are certainly right about libel going both ways..and I am a record keeper!

Just seen this post of Doc's earlier on - what a good one:
-------
Penelope, the funny thing is I've got this feeling that the PJ have enough witness statements to make Jane Tanner crack at their next confrontation. If that happens the Tapas' story is going to fold like a pack of cards and each one will be out to save their own skin. If that comes about, Gerry and Kate are going to be extremely exposed. The DNA is, I think, not the evidence on which the case will hang, but will be the cherry on top.

-----------

The thing is, I dont think Jane looked very stable on Panorama and her partner was certainly not there to support her either, was he? Wise chap! I think she will be crying her eyes up when they get hold of her and Doc is right, they will explain to her in no uncertain terms where her lies will be taking her, and she really will not like the thought of being in a womens' prison, after lying for the McCanns...a terrifying thought!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

The Edinburgh 7 were the first women ever to enter medical school in Britain.
they had to fight very hard for that right.
Why was my post deleted?
Dee

viv said...

According to Correio de Manha the McCanns really have demanded £4M! The purpose of an action for libel is to prevent damage to your reputatation. I posted on the relevant law above. Time is of the essence. In short, as soon as someone prints defamatory stuff about you, you write demanding a retration and an apology. If that is not forthcoming then you issue a write for libel. So, how come it took the McCanns 10 months to come to the conclusion the Daily Express were damaging their reputation? Did they want to wait until the Daily Express had printed dozens of stories so they could demand an absurd £4M in damages. In short, the McCanns dont give a toss about their reputation - they know that is already in shreds - they have actually courted the media - what they care about is making huge pots of money. NASTY, NASTY, NASTY...kill your little girl, dispose of her body, get your friends to lie for you and put themselves all at risk of substantial custodial sentences and then do everything you can think of to make loads of money..leave no stone unturned - just like the Hamiltons - they have no shame or conscience - they just want loads of money. But I do apologise to the Hamiltons - they never did anything as repugnant as Kate and Gerry McCann - they just took the cash in brown envelopes and then tried to sue Al Fayed when he mentioned it..now that pales into insignificance in terms of vile criminal behaviour.

---------


Madeleine: For stories they consider defamatory
McCann threaten group Express Newspapers


Lusa

Gerry and Kate not like newspapers that the group noticiassem suspected Portuguese police about them
The McCann threatened the group of British media Express Newspapers with a trial. In a letter sent by lawyers Carter Ruck's office - which represents the parents of Madeleine - is required an application for excuse on the cover of newspapers in the group and a compensation for moral damages.


It was advanced that the amount requested is four million pounds (about 5.2 million euros), but Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the couple, denies.

At issue is the coverage carried by newspapers in the group - 'Daily Express',' Sunday Express', 'Daily Star' and 'Daily Star Sunday' - to the case Madeleine. Coverage McCann believe that the "defamatory and rough." Kate and Gerry are appalled, especially with the news published in the 'Daily Express'. This after the last time the daily has given special emphasis to suspected Portuguese police on the possible involvement of the couple in the disappearance of the girl. "We have not been forbidden to write about the case," said the Morning Post a journalist of the daily, "but the coverage has been considerably reduced, now we only news if a major development."

For now has not been made any complaint in court, and lawyers of the parties involved in negotiations for an agreement.

viv said...

Anon

Anyone who has a serious comment to make is welcomed here - Docmac is a man, not an historical female! I got accused of being a man by people on a silly blog, because I have a pic of George Clooney as my avitar!!

JANEGT said...

docmac

I at no time ever said you 'would be dead in 3 hours' time'.

you are mistaken

or a liar.

Anonymous said...

jane said no such thing to docmac at all re 3 hrs and he would be dead. and he knows it and you do ad you won't dare publish this coz you are weak shites.

leigh3 said...

Janegt.

Life is strange sometimes. Earlier tonight I remembered you, and here you are. I thought: 'If I see her name again, I owe her an apology.'

I'm sorry for our brief, acrimonious posts on the DE website.

We won't agree on certain things, but nothing either of us say will alter the course of events in the case of missing Madeleine Beth McCann, I think.

Best wishes to you and your dear daughter. By the way, I am merely me. I'm not anything else.

I recall you live in the North West of England, a beautiful place, a place that I would prefer to raise my daughter, but life's not perfect, is it. We do the best we can.

Ta ra, Janegt. I hope you accept my sincere apology.

hope4truth said...

I wish the Annons nasty women many sleepless nights. I wonder which one of the vile old biddies this one was??? Where have I seen the vile word this nasty individual has posted before oh yes across someones avitar vile then vile still.

But of course she belives it is ok to neglect children and a lot of nasty women agree with her very smug she was about it.

Revolting the lot of you but please keep posting your filth it shows you for the nasty pieces of scum you are and I would have stopped posting long long ago if you had not all been so nasty and smug with your bullying ways I thought up yours I am going no where.

If any of you are taking blood money for posting you really are doing a bad job intimidation is not the way to get things to go your own way and shows you up for the thugs you are.

2345 said...

Felicity & All,

True journalism - Metado 3 - from Alsa's blog:

14-Mar-2008
Metodo 3

According to http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/:



M3 Detective paid witnesses in Morocco

M3 has done everything to safeguard the McCanns

One of the detectives working for Metodo 3 allegedly paid witnesses who stated they had seen Madeleine in Morocco. The charge is made by a source from Moroccan Police, responsible for the interrogation of the witnesses within the kingdom, where M3’s work methods are questioned by the authorities.

The arrest of António Jiménez, one of the private detectives working for the McCanns, showing implications in the disappearance of several hundred kilos of cocaine and corruption of public civil servant, has served to reinforce the authorities’ suspicions in connection with the agency’s work.

During the hearing, one of the witnesses interviewed by Moroccan police admitted to having received several thousands of euro from the Spanish detective who had asked him to keep the arrangement secret “not to affect the investigations”.

António Jiménez, former inspector-chief of the Drugs and Organised Crime Unit (Udyco) of the Barcelona police force was Francisco Marco the director of m3, right-hand man in Morocco. It was him who had found several witnesses who stated they had seen Madeleine in the north of the country. He even directed several British journalists to meetings with the witnesses.

According to the same source, the payment of money could have been made without the knowledge of Gerry and Kate McCann, leading the investigators to believe that the detective would have acted with the intention to allowing the Barcelona agency “to score points” with public opinion and thus keep, for a longer period, the contract with Madeleine’s parents, their most important customer at this moment.

“We were able to determine, with what the witnesses told and information that we received from Spain, that Madeleine’s parents did not ask the detective to act in this way,” states the person in charge of Moroccan police, adding “which does not excluded that the agency of detectives may be solely responsible for these facts”.

In November of 2007, on the sidelines of the 76th General Assembly of Interpol, in Marrakech, the Moroccan Minister of Interior Department, Chakib Benmoussa had stated “that there was no reason to think that little Madeleine McCann was in Morocco”, an opinion confirmed by the investigators on the field.

Several voices related to the Portuguese and British police force were raised, on various occasions, to criticise Metodo 3’s work. It is the case of Mark Williams-Thomas, a British criminologist, expert in child protection, to whom the lead mentioned by Metodo 3 that Madeleine had been taken to order, by a network paedophiles and transported to Morocco, “shows a lack of knowledge of paedophiles and of how they work.”

Since the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, on 3 May 2007, several dozens of witnesses stated they had seen the little British girl, but it was after Metodo 3 was hired that the witness statements become more frequent in the media, leading each time towards Morocco, without the agency of detectives being able, to date, to provide the least bit of proof.

Francisco Marco, Metodo 3’s very mediatic director, has appeared with the promise that the little girl would be found before the end of the six month old contract made with Kate and Gerry McCann. Francisco even claimed to know the identity of those who took her and that Madeleine would be with her parents for Christmas.

It is not the first time that the members of m3 are put into question. In the past, five members of the Barcelona agency had been already arrested by the police in a murky story of wiretappings and corruption, in particular Francisco Marco, his mother, Maria Fernandez Lado, her father, Francisco Marco Poyuelo, his brother Francisco Gabriel Fernandez Lado, and an employee, Oscar Trujillo.

“All means are good”

Clarence Mitchell, questioned in connection with the accusations against Metodo 3, started by affirming “that it doesn’t know anything”, and that he “is not able to make a comment,” but quickly takes up his role as person in charge in communication and relativises the issue by affirming that “all means are good” for the investigations carried out by private detectives: “It is possible that during the investigation they could pay for information”, admitted the person in charge in communication with the service of McCann.

Metodo 3, states Clarence Mitchell, “maintain the trust of those keeps which pay its expenses, because they believe they show their commitment and passion to find Madeleine”.

“Their employers are content with their field work… they very quickly track descriptions… in certain cases in the space the three hours and they are quite simply faster, much faster than Interpol or the police services in the countries where they operate and thus their empooyers think that '' they have done good work,” further states Clarence. Of course “they did not find Madeleine yet, but neither has the police”. We know that m3 works well, they do not need to prove it”, concluded Clarence Mitchell."

By Duarte Levy for http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/




Note: the Daily Mail confirmed that Kate and Gerry have renewed their contract with Metodo 3.






Posted by alsabella at 3:48:00 AM 12 comments
13-Mar-2008

2345 said...

penelope,

Hope you get to read the damning article on Metado 3 I've just pasted.

Mari's case is being subjected to exactly the same PR and spin tactics as the McCanns. In the first press release (on Alsa's) blog, her parents said immediate upon her body being found - preemptively, that they 'might' want a second autopsy. Not the first thought which enters the head of innocent grief strick parents ! The reason in the article "Correio da Manha" ascertains that they (parents) were advised to do so by the detective agency that was investigating Mari Luz's disappearance."

In an article on 3 A's (I'll try to find/paste it) - Mr Cortez retracted and said words to the effect - I only spoke to PI's.
In every press article since the gruesome discovery, emphasis has been placed on PI's illegally meddling in a second case are NOT Metado. Spinmasters at work here as well .... the only explanation is another gruesome twosome turned 'star' performers in McCanns circus.

Anonymous said...

For docmac:

Docmac said that his mother was the first woman to qualify from Edinburgh Uni,as a doctor and that she worked as a GP,in Capetown, until her nineties.
Even an amateur like me, new to the computer can check this out.
The first woman was Margaret Ann Bulkley and died 150 years ago,as an Army medic.
She was the first woman to qualify as a medical doctor there, in 1812 and dressed as a man to become her alter ego, Dr James Barry
This was in DM online, on5th March,2008.
Why say this, when it can be checked ?

LittleGreyCell said...

Anonymous,

This is what Docmac actually wrote:-

"I can tell you that my inspiration was my dad's mum, who was the first ever woman to qualify from a very famous medical school in the UK. She was a surgeon, but in latter years did locums for GPs until she was almost 90!"

Can you please point out where he said she studied in Edinburgh, and then where he said she worked as a locum "in Cape Town"?

I think you'll find this CAN be easily checked by reading what Docmac wrote Very Carefully Indeed.

But well done for your research on the internet, anyway. Fascinating stuff, even though it doesn't have the slightest relevance to anything.

atardi said...

Littlegreycell,

The only purpose of this post is to knock Docmac down. Just because of the fact that he is a doctor. Nothing else. NADA!

Nice to see you here.

docmac said...

MELBEL, are you unable to read or are you deliberately misquoting me on your blog in a vain attempt to score points? I mentioned neither Edinburgh nor Cape Town.


docmac said...
Penelope, just saw your reply as I was leaving. It seems your dad was a wonderful man who studied and practised medicine for the right reasons. A dying breed, it's a shame. It's all about money and status now, isn't it?

I can tell you that my inspiration was my dad's mum, who was the first ever woman to qualify from a very famous medical school in the UK. She was a surgeon, but in latter years did locums for GPs until she was almost 90!

Nice to hear about the true carers again. Goodnight once more.

Thursday, 13 March 2008 23:25:00 o'clock GMT




Anonymous said...
The Edinburgh 7 were the first women ever to enter medical school in Britain.
they had to fight very hard for that right.
Why was my post deleted?
Dee

Friday, 14 March 2008 01:12:00 o'clock GMT



Anonymous said...
For docmac:

Docmac said that his mother was the first woman to qualify from Edinburgh Uni,as a doctor and that she worked as a GP,in Capetown, until her nineties.
Even an amateur like me, new to the computer can check this out.
The first woman was Margaret Ann Bulkley and died 150 years ago,as an Army medic.
She was the first woman to qualify as a medical doctor there, in 1812 and dressed as a man to become her alter ego, Dr James Barry
This was in DM online, on5th March,2008.
Why say this, when it can be checked ?

Friday, 14 March 2008 10:31:00 o'clock GMT

docmac said...

JANEGT and MELBEL

Who's the liar now then?


JANEGT said...
docmac

I at no time ever said you 'would be dead in 3 hours' time'.

you are mistaken

or a liar.

Friday, 14 March 2008 02:24:00 o'clock GMT


Anonymous said...
jane said no such thing to docmac at all re 3 hrs and he would be dead. and he knows it and you do ad you won't dare publish this coz you are weak shites.

Friday, 14 March 2008 03:02:00 o'clock GMT


HI TINKS.....YES DOCMAC DOES POST ELSEWHERE
26.01.08, 6:57pm

don't know if he was banned or just left.

He often has comments referred on here, and a couple of nights ago, there was a link to the 3 arguidos site, which I went to - where he said he was 'too upset to post 'but he 'now knew for certain Madeleine was never coming home.' Horrid.

Now today, a lump was copied and posted from Lizzyw1 I think on similar comments and more regarding the DE site and members. It's a few posts back.............have a look.

Like it....docquack. Must remember that.

He is upsetting to read as there are really sweeping statements with no source, backup, proof or links.....that's what's so horrid about it.

sorry you're going to die in 3 hours. doc

but what have I got? patient

You're going to die in 3 hours, believe me. doc

• Posted by: janegt

atardi said...

Littlegreycell,

I meant the post anonymous made. Not mine. It has always been the same. Some people can't stand it that Docmac is a doctor.

Why is this so important?

atardi said...

Docmac,

Wat ik niet begrijp is dat men zo geobsedeerd is door het feit dat je dat beroep uitoefent.
Ze moeten jou echt hebben. Je werkt hun gigantisch op de zenuwen.

docmac said...

Hi Atardi

Ek gee nie om wat hulle van myself of my beroep dink nie. Ek weet wie ek is en wat ek elke dag doen. Dit is as hulle leuens vertel dat ek kwaad raak.

atardi said...

LittleGreyCell said...

SHANNON MATTHEWS FOUND ALIVE!

It's on Sky News now...

Friday, 14 March 2008 14:25:00 o'clock GMT

Thank you for the newsbreak.

Shannon Matthews Is Found

Updated:14:22, Friday March 14, 2008
Missing schoolgirl Shannon Matthews has been found alive in Batley, West Yorkshire, according to Sky sources.
Police had been searching for the nine-year-old for over three weeks.

The youngster has now been taken to a police station.

Sky's north of England correspondent Gerard Tubb said: "The girl has been found in the Dewsbury area - there is a very strong possibility that it is Shannon Matthews."

More follows...

This is good news.

Hope she is well.

atardi said...

Docmac,

Ik kan me voorstellen dat je je druk maakt maar bij deze mensen draait alles om leugens. En om andere mensen in een kwaad daglicht te stellen.

Maar zij hebben een probleem want niemand gelooft hun!

docmac said...

Thanks for your reply, Atardi. I'm just looking for all the news on Shannon. Fantastic outcome!

hope4truth said...

Hi ALL

Just checking through then read about Shannon so checked the news how wonderful.

What a relief I do hope she is ok and hasnt been hurt....

Bloody hell Im crying now so fantastic...

2345 said...

hope4truth,

It's such great news ... made me cry as well. All credit to the police ... well done, great result.
People are quick to criticize but seldom acknowledge or thank the police for their painstaking work.

I read yesterday that it's been a multi million pound search, involving 17 search dogs ... biggest hunt since Jack the Ripper.

Huge relief for all concerned. a loss for the McCanns ... can't hitch a ride on this family's grief any longer.

2345 said...

littlegreycell,

Good question, why does docmac's qualification create such anger ?

Immediately prior to my permanent DE ban I was astounded by trolls unmitigated attack on him. I never got to read his post, but gathered from the vitriol that it concerned 'aspirin'.

Trolls are consistent in their loathings; the closer the truth, the bigger the attack. All credit to Docmac that he raises monitor's wrath.

viv said...

Hiya 2345

Thanks for the really interesting article about the illegal activities of Metodo 3, paying witnesses to say they saw Madeleine. Clarence thinks that is just fine and they dont need to prove themselves. He would have done better to state the McCanns have been ill served by these criminals. They tar themselves the same style of investigation.

Penelope1 said...

2345

Thanks for your earlier post. Yes, M3 seem to be even lower than we thought.

No doubt the PJ will be determined to nail them too - the are trying to undermine their credibility and are also interfering with Madeline's investigation, as well as Mari-L's.

The whole Madeline case is so much greater than the disappearance of a small child - it reeks of dishonesty, corruption and bribery as every turn.

If the McCanns were upright they would have fired M3 as soon as they got any hint of their corrupt past and current corrupt practises of paying for false sightings.

It will take the PJ a long time to unravel this - and this seems to be the deliberate stragetgy of M3.

Penelope1 said...

According to Alsabella's blog teh news has just cone thro that a bag of bones was found in the resevoir.

It is not known if they are human or not.

Docmac if you are there, would Maddie's body have decomposed so much (in water) in less than one year that she would already be just bones and not a body ?

Penelope1 said...

Cut and pasted from Alsabella's blog:

New In Town

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 29 Translated news

Updated at 17h24

A few minutes passed from 15 hours when the team of
Divers hired by Correia found a lawyer Aragon
Bag with "bones", covered in mud and bottom of the dam do Arade,
Revealed the PortugalDi�rio Telma Fernandes, assistant to the
Caus�dico.

"We do not know whether they are human or any animal," says Telma
Fernandes. "Bones are small and only slightly opened the bag to
See its contents. When saw what was called the
Mexemos authorities and not more, "guarantor.

"Neither is to see that color is the bag, because it is completely
Covered with mud. It was tied with ropes with, "adds the
Assistant to the attorney Madeira.

He not up for Maddie
Maddie: tens to hear in England

The GNR and the Judiciary Police are already on the site and created a
Small perimeter security. "Along the bag only are the
Authorities and some divers ", reported the Telma Fernandes
PortugalDi�rio. "All other people are beyond the
Perimeter. How, for example, the detectives of the agency Spanish
M�tode 3.

Searching for the second time

Marcos Aragon Correia is a lawyer and, for the second time in a few
Months, is the sponsor with support from a company Algarve, searches
Dam in the Arade, in Silves. It is there that believe has
"Largado been" the body of Madeleine McCann, a few days after
Its disappearance.

The search again Monday and were found
Several foreign objects. "Several ropes, a plastic and half
The child with four or five years, "said the PortugalDi�rio
Telma Fernandes. "But meanwhile, this material has followed to
Barcelona which will be analysed.

It is recalled that last December the lawyer had already hired
A team of divers and was four days on the spot. In this
Time, "was found a rope from five meters", which was
Delivered to the GNR of Lagos, recalls Telma. "We believe that after
Has been taken to the Judicial Police. But the fact is that never
Nobody told us anything about it. " So they decided, this
Instead, "does not deliver anything without analyzing first of form
Particular.

However, the "finding" of this Friday left no alternative to
Lawyer and the team of searches: "We had to draw the
Authorities. The bag was found near Tower "to capture,
Very close to the place you collected the other objects that
Week ', ends Telma Fernandes


http://www.portugaldiario.iol.pt/noticia.php?id=928079

14 March 2008 17:50

viv said...

Thanks Penelope

I did say a few days ago that we needed to prepare ourselves for Madeleine possibly being found in here in light of the reaction of the McCanns to the further search but nevertheless am utterly shocked. We do not know for sure that it is her, though, do we.

Viv

Penelope1 said...

Docmac posted this to me on one of the articles above, where I also posted news of the bone find. I asked him about decomposition rates in water. This is what the doctor said:

-----------------------------------
There are many variables to take into account, but generally speaking a body decomposes 4 times FASTER in water than one buried under soil and HALF as fast as one exposed to the elements. Bearing in mind that in a warm climate with some humidity a human corpse can be reduced to bone and hair in around 10 days, the answer to your question is obviously yes, and FAR quicker than that..

---------------------------------

I don't think the scuba divers would have called the PJ if it were a bag of dead kittens...

irina said...

Hello everyone.
Too convenient of a time. Is not it? With the bones.
Whatever McCanns will tern out now9 false or real) does not matter, they are facing the serious charges of killing and disposing of their daughter! Whatever excuses they will come up - this is a crime. "I will never do it again" or " I want to do what the best" does not work in a matter of murder (which it is as far as I believe: when one is super violent towards child it is murder!)

Great news about Shannon!!!!!
Hope she was not heart, just scared to go back with all that attention.

irina said...

If that is a desperate attempt by the Mcs to disrupt the interviews... by sending M3 to plant Madeleine finger bones... WOW!!! ... It is the most evil yet!!!
Let’s hope for Madeleine sake that it just a bag with picnic leftovers...