4 Mar 2008

"COLD CASE DETECTIVES" OR "COMMERCIAL & BANK INVESTIGATORS

To date, there has been little focus on the firm of private detectives the McCanns hired in the UK and precisely when. Their firm name on their webpage describe them as Hogan International - Commerical and Bank Investigators. See also details of services they offer below. Why then, in the Daily Mail article are they described as "cold case investigators"? Just like the Retardos, they actually specialise in monetary fraud. It is clear they are the ones responsible for the desperate search for non-prosecution "witnesses" in the UK seeking to exculpate the McCanns by producing a series of so called "creepy characters" who at some stage had been in the vicinity of the McCann apartment. This includes a charity collector and apparently Michaela Walzchuch when canvassing for Jehovah's witnesses. Then we had the highly credible Granny Cooper and the big splash in the News of the World with her startling "evidence".

This firm are obviously not fearful of seeking to protect their reputation, having sued the Daily Express and apparently received an out of court settlement. This does not stop us from reasonably asking questions about them and querying who is actually funding them. Why has the Find Maddie Fund failed to mention this? When the McCanns themselves perpetuated a fraud by asking for money from the public to find Madeleine, knowing she was already dead, how odd they instruct two firms of fraud investigators!

Viv x



The below is only a brief overview of the services provided by HOGAN International. Please contact us (in confidence) to discuss specifics.SURVEILLANCEThe surveillance department is made up almost entirely of former CID and Special Forces officers, with backgrounds which enable them to carry out a wide range of covert operations. The department has investigated frauds and internal thefts exceeding £50m. One case involved the infiltration of an organised gang responsible for a company's stock losses of £20,000 a week! The matter was resolved and, as is the case wherever Hogan International is involved the client was able to minimise publicity - sometimes more damaging than the crimes themselves.TRACINGThe tracing department has on-line computer links to a variety of databases in Europe, North America and the Asia Pacific region. This gives direct access to information on more than 500 million individuals and companies. Supplemented by field investigators, this department offers a service which embraces everything from elusive debtors to natural parents and beneficiaries of wills.PERSONNEL VETTINGHogan International currently acts for a number of clients investigating the backgrounds and C.Vs of prospective and existing employees up to board level. Totally contrived or manipulated histories have been uncovered in numerous cases enabling the client to make a decision based upon the facts discovered.LEGAL SERVICESThis department provides a full range of services to the legal profession, often working in conjunction with other departments. Predominantly used in the service of papers such as writs, statutory demands and the tracing and interviewing of witnesses, other areas of activity include local authority searches, criminal and civil defence case investigations and legal photography.ASSET INVESTIGATIONSParticularly successful has been the provision of pre-sue reports. Their preparation has often acted as a final prompt to pay on the part of the defaulter, or uncovered circumstances which, while regrettable, show an action would not be cost effective - saving the further time and cost of pointless litigation. A comprehensive asset location investigation service is also available.TRAININGHogan International believes in the thorough training and preparation of its own staff - and offers the same training opportunities to client companies. Some of the basic course cover "The tracing of elusive debtors", "Prevention and detection of consumer and corporate fraud" and "Personnel vetting"










The McCanns bring in cold-case detectives to investigate Madeleine's disappearanceBy DAN NEWLING and VANESSA ALLEN - More by this author » Last updated at 00:48am on 3rd January 2008
Comments (21) Kate and Gerry McCann have hired a former Met Police officer to carry out a "cold case" review into Madeleine's disappearance.
Noel Hogan, a former CID detective, has spent hundreds of hours interviewing British witnesses in the case.
He has also gone through each witness's existing statements line by line. Among those he has interviewed include the socalled "Tapas seven" who were on holiday with the McCanns in Praia da Luz last May.
Scroll down for more ...

Kate and Gerry McCann have brought in a British cold-case detective to help find their daughter Madeleine
Read more...
Madeleine suspect Robert Murat tells police: 'Charge me or clear me'
He is also thought to have taken Kate and Gerry McCann through their own statements in minute detail.
Mr Hogan spent eight years in the Met where he reached the rank of detective superintendent.
Since 1986 he has run his own detective agency in Surrey, Hogan International, which claims to have extensive experience dealing with missing-person cases.
Mr Hogan had been investigating one of the 7/7 suicide bombers before the terror attacks in 2005 after the man's bank became suspicious of his spending patterns.
When contacted by the Daily Mail, Mr Hogan confirmed that he had spoken to many of the holidaymakers now back in Britain.
Scroll down for more ...

Madeleine McCann has been missing since May, last year
He said: "I have been reinterviewing a number of the witnesses that were out in Portugal at the time."
He added that his investigation would tie in with the enquiry being conducted by the Spanish detective agency Metodo 3 in Barcelona.
Since four-year- old Madeleine's disappearance, well-wishers have contributed over £1million to the fund to help find her.
The McCanns have spent much of this money on Metodo 3, which is being paid £50,000 a month to lead the search for their daughter.
However, the couple are understood to have become increasingly disillusioned with the firm, after its head detective Francisco Marco made a series of wild public statements.
Scroll down for more ...

Police make the initial search of the McCann's holiday apartment
Mr Marco claimed to know for a fact that the missing toddler was being kept in North Africa and would be home by Christmas.
But yesterday a source close to the family said that Kate and Gerry were keeping faith with Metodo 3 in spite of their concerns.
But the source confirmed that they have also authorised the employment of Mr Hogan to coordinate the UK end of the investigation.
The McCanns' official spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, declined to comment.
Metodo 3 are currently trying to re-interview an Irish family who said they saw a man carrying away a child on the night Madeleine disappeared.
Martin Smith and his family-from Drogheda in Co. Louth, told police about the sighting - which is strikingly similar to one by a friend of the McCanns, Jane Tanner.
They described a barefoot child and a man wearing beige trousers walking towards the beach in Praia da Luz, about 400yards from the McCanns' holiday apartment.
However, they said that the man was definitely not official suspect Robert Murat, whom they had met before and would have recognised.
Mr Smith even flew back to Portugal to give evidence but said he had not been contacted by police since making a statement in May.

112 comments:

Atardi said...

Hallo Viv,

My lats post before the DE article was:

"Atardi said...

To everyone,

I wish I hadn't publish the poll from the Sun yesterday.

The pro's look at it as if it's a proof that the parents have "less" to do with the case.

I have a different view.

10 Months later the majority still thinks that the Pj is doing a great job and that the parents have something to tell about Madeleine's disappearance."

Tuesday, March 4, 2008 10:56:00 AM PST


Now I'm glad I have posted it so we
were prepared.

I have noticed that the DE always publishes an article if the Press Association does it.

This article was released 3 hours ago by the PA.

Anonymous said...

atardi
is this the correct thread we're on as no ones about and wondered if this is wrong link. lorraine

Atardi said...

Lorraine,

It's not the wrong link. We have been discussing this case here before and after the DE ignored us.

Most people who want Justice for Madeleine are on the DE right now. There are posters like big-l and Rothaymere everyone appreciated. so it's nice to read them again.

hope4truth said...

Atardi

Good Evening to you I hope you are well...

Just posted on the DX but will stay here mainly (it is safer LOL)

Are you back at work??? xxx

southerncross said...

Evening Viv,
I appreciated ironsides'thread on the 3A's re the Smith family as being perhaps the most crucial independant witnesses.(I think that 2345 has reported this on your blog).Don't think that I have ever heard the pink one referring/spinning to the Irish witnesses per se?

irina said...

Hello Viv,
I think Hogan was hired to spy on T7 to make sure they do what told, as I understood Hogan’s specialty is spying and penetrating.

irina said...

Hello everyone,
About the poll and articles about it and Clara: I think it is a smoke screen before or as PJ come.
Macs do not play cards any more, they are played now.
Clara lost control.
The poll itself is rather limited, I would not even publish it, but CM did - they must have a specific target in mind.

Smith's sighting: could be significant as it appears that the whole family was present: him, his wife and grown up children, going from the pub. I am sure PJ got the story in full, as they mentioned the possible request for T9 return (or only parents) for identification procedure.

irina said...

P.S. I was banned from DX, cant comment there.

From A3 learned that it was reported that a representative from UK police is due to visit PJ this week to agree the details (in private).
After that PJ will travel to UK.
One poster says that airport in Birmingham received press and media restriction warning for 10th of March (they think that is that date PJ will come.)

Atardi said...

hope4truth,

I had to work just one hour yesterday. (50 minutes) And today I had to work form 12.15 untill 13.55.

After that I had an appointment at a nursing home to obtain that some of my pupils can get a practical experience period there. It was positive. 4 Pupils can get practical experience there.

What do you think of the DE? Isn't it weird?

hope4truth said...

Irina

I have posted on the DX today and dont think I will bother with it what is the point in arguing all the time or trying to explain why I feel the way I do etc...

So I will stay here and Alsabellas as it is safe LOL

hope4truth said...

Hi Atardi

Good for you getting some practical work for your students my Oldest chooses which subjects to take next year this week and she will be doing some work experience next year (but she cant make her mind what she wants to do)...

Is it cold over there it is freezing here tonight...

irina said...

Here is another interesting interview on the new book and more

http://the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5411

Atardi said...

hope4truth,

Yesterday it was also so cold here. The sun was shining today but it was cold.

What are the subjects your daughter can choose for?

hope4truth said...

Atardi

She has to do Maths Science and English..

SHe has chosen Business Studies
Philosophy and Ethics
Travel and Tourism and
Geography

She is unsure about the rest but has to decide by Thursday...

It has been sunny here but cold x

lizzy said...

hope4truth
I agree with you have just popped on the DE and wonder if there is a motive behind the reintroduction of have your say.
I wonder if it is because Clarrie has no control or input of what is said on the blogs but can send in the Pro's on the DE.

hope4truth said...

Goodnight ALL

After last nights excitment (me winning my award George Clooney Will Smith Opus etc) I am very tiered and have to fit my trophy to my satelite dish tomorrow morning to show off a bit...

See you all tomorrow xxx

Atardi said...

hope4truth

See you tomorrow. It's my day off.

Welterusten.

hope4truth said...

Lizzie

I was going to reply to you on there but it wears me down so did not bother but not because I did not want to talk to you LOL

I was going to say there are no (or hardly any) pros there which is strange or maybe they have the night off to try and prove some of them are not paid...

I am sick of being told that Antis just want the McCanns guilty all I want is Madeleine found and or the truth about what happend to come out...

I am off see you soon xxx

hope4truth said...

Night Atardi

Enjoy your day off xxx

Anonymous said...

Viv

I don't know if you received the email I sent you but one of my web browers continues to crash every time I log into your blog.

ICantThinkOfAName

felicity said...

Hiya all

I just had a look at the DE but it seems rather sterile with so many of the good posters banned as they have told us on here. Even the dark side did not arrive! I think it is rather sickening the DE ban so many good posters on and then put this pathetic article up - seems they are just trying to help the McCanns with their spin to me. But I do not see how it is helpful really given the majority who expressed a preference think they are er guilty.

Do you think we should be demanding that Clarence/The McCanns explain where the funding is coming form for Hogan International? Why has Clarence only been telling us about the £58 K per month for the Retardos? Why did he have it put in his favourite newspaper this outfit were conducting "a cold case review"? This was utterly misleading = they are not allowed access to the police file do do this, and, as their webpage confirms this is not what they do anyway!

Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Hope,
I think that there is something wierd about the fact that the DE has suddenly the week the PJ are due to come to England, reintroduce the have your say re the Madeleine articles. I think there is an ulterior motive. Lizzy 22.52

felicity said...

Hiya ICTOAN I have to confess I hve not checked that email programme for several days - it takes some doing to pick out the emails because all the posts get sent there but will go and have a look now. I dont know why your webbrowser is crashing when logging on here but would be grateful if others could tell me whether they are also experiencing this. There has been some problems with google lately though. Quite often I have got a note come up saying try again and this was also happening on Alsabella's so not peculiar to this site - was it that? Usually only happens for a few minutes>


Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
I have just read your post re Hogan International, as you say CM should have to account for where the funding is coming from to pay these people. And he should have to clarify the misleading statement made by himself ,re the alleged Cold Case reiew which you advise cannot be done anyway.He seems to be a law unto himself nothing he says is ever questioned.
Lizzy 22.59

Atardi said...

Viv,

Glad you are going to check your email programme. Sent you an e-mail also and was afraid you didn't received.

leigh3 said...

Hi All,
Do we get the feeling that we are approaching the 'end game' now? I do.

Just caught up with today's posts here, and saw mention of DE story re: poll interpreted as 'helpful' to McCanns. Hey: who paid for that poll? Do we believe that poll? I don't.

Meanwhile, as we wait for Justice, I'll indulge myself a little. I am so proud of Big_L for stepping into the breach and quickly commenting on the DE article before it disappeared, and expressing our sentiments in his usual blunt way.

If anyone sees him again, do me a favour: tell him his comrade Leigh3 is most grateful for his perseverance.

Bye for now, darlings. xo

felicity said...

Hiya Atardi

I just checked and answered some emails but could not find your own - maybe I did not look back far enough but because all the posts go in there, there are hundreds - sorry I missed it.

Lizzie - I think it is very disreputable for CM to be commenting so much about the Retardos and how their costs will cause the fund to run out but not even mentioning the costs of Hogan. Also falsely claiming they are conducting a cold case review which clearly only the police can do. Similarly only the police should issue e-fits and say they are pursuing suspect - he is a megalomaniac and the case and his power has clearly gone to his head.

Leigh

I do feel this is the end game now and the piece in the DE is really quite sad and pathetic, particularly given the DE banned nearly all the decent antis! Clarence has singularly failed to persuade the general public or the police the McCanns are innocent. I think the PJ will be here within days now, not weeks.

Hope darling I am glad you are going to fit your award up to your satellite dish to show off a bit - with such a coveted accolade under your belt - who could blame you!

Viv

Atardi said...

DE published the poll.

We had so may sightings no one believed these sightings so now we have next spinning in the Daily Mail:

"The shocking truth behind daycare at nurseries and creches"

I will not publish the whole article but if someone wants ro read it. Follow next link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=526248&in_page_id=1879

Now it's Mark Warner's who is responsible for children neglected by their own parents.

hope4truth said...

Morning All

SO how long did the DX article last before it was deleted? Just went to had a look and surprise surprise it has gone. I wonder what the problem was did people not say what they were supposed to say?

Very odd if my child were missing people could think what they liked about me ok I would not want people jeering at me but I dont think this has happend to the McCanns or their family (at least I hope it has not as it would be very cruel)...

The only thing that any forum can do to hurt them is for them to read them (and if inocent why would they need to there would be no evidence) or the Idiots who copy posts and send them to them. I will never understand the Numpty that sent Alsabellas open letter to Mrs Healy I thought it was a very good letter and siad it all really but to send it on to a grieving Grandmother was a stupid thing to do. I am sure she knows what people think of her daughter she does not need her face rubbing in it.

Been reading Ironside about the sighting by the Irish family and how CM has really played it down I thought all sightings would be very important but again it is obvious only the things they want us to know we know about...

Poor Madeleine she did not stand a chance...

I am off see you all later xxx

hope4truth said...

Morning All

SO how long did the DX article last before it was deleted? Just went to had a look and surprise surprise it has gone. I wonder what the problem was did people not say what they were supposed to say?

Very odd if my child were missing people could think what they liked about me ok I would not want people jeering at me but I dont think this has happend to the McCanns or their family (at least I hope it has not as it would be very cruel)...

The only thing that any forum can do to hurt them is for them to read them (and if inocent why would they need to there would be no evidence) or the Idiots who copy posts and send them to them. I will never understand the Numpty that sent Alsabellas open letter to Mrs Healy I thought it was a very good letter and siad it all really but to send it on to a grieving Grandmother was a stupid thing to do. I am sure she knows what people think of her daughter she does not need her face rubbing in it.

Been reading Ironside about the sighting by the Irish family and how CM has really played it down I thought all sightings would be very important but again it is obvious only the things they want us to know we know about...

Poor Madeleine she did not stand a chance...

I am off see you all later xxx

Anonymous said...

Good Morning All,
Recently the McCanns were seen filming in a restaurant in Richmond. Is it just a coincidence that Reputica's offices are in the same street?

http://reputica.com
Organisation dealing with reputation management. Monitors blog,online media public responses to individuals.

Wizard 09.19am

Niki said...

Good morning all!

Thank you for pasting Ironsides articles yesterday 2345!

---

Atardi! Catalan-Barcelona-M3, exactly my thoughts!
----

Maddie's parents seek charity's help
By Ian Mason
Comment | Read Comments (22)

Missing: Madeleine McCann went missing in Portugal last May
The parents of missing Madeleine McCann have visited Richmond to find out more about the work of a charity that helps locate missing people.

Kate and Gerry McCann, whose four-year-old daughter was kidnapped from Praia da Luz, Portugal, on May 3 last year, met representatives from East Sheen-based charity Missing People and Missing Children Europe.

Ross Miller, of Missing People, said the McCanns wanted to find out more about the charity's role within Missing Children Europe, the European Federation for Missing and Sexually Exploited Children, and to hear about its work first hand.

He said: "Kate and Gerry were very interested to learn more about our new research programme.

"This aims to fill gaps in the information currently available about the numbers of people going missing, why they go missing, their experiences while away and the impact on those left behind."

On the same day, 302 days after Madeleine's abduction, Gerry wrote on his blog praising the work of the charity.

He said: "Missing People were responsible for displaying Madeleine's image on Marble Arch, along with two other missing children last summer.

"It was heartening to hear today that one of those children was recovered as a direct result and the other has also been successfully returned to his family."

The Richmond Guardian also received reports that the couple visited the Depot restaurant, in Tideway Yard, Mortlake High Street, and were being filmed.

However, staff at the restaurant remained tight-lipped about the couple's visit and refused to comment about the filming.

------



Niki 11.43

2345 said...

wizard,

Well spotted .... 9.55 a.m.

Anonymous said...

This charity is an absolute disgrace. They should not have any dealings with the McCanns until they are cleared. To involve people who are suspects in their childs disappearance is....well polite words fail me.

Wizard 09:57am

2345 said...

Felicity & All,

Thanks for the Hogan information.
As Madeleine died on or around 3 May, is this firm being paid by the Fund ?

Their purpose is obviously to 'legally' groom all false witnesses deployed by Metado 3.

The need to undermine the Police and their dossier of evidence continues .... no surprises there then !!! 10.15 a.m.

2345 said...

Reports of Portuguese Opinion:

Unlike the British public, PJ did not broadcast damning FSS information on 7 September, as did the British Police via BBC's Jane Hill.

How many Portuguese citizens are aware of the British Government's unprecedented involvement in this case?

Also, how many Portugese citizens know that British politicians delayed Rogatory Letters procedures for four months; most likely also caused lengthy delays in FSS results ?

How many Portuguese know that their media refused a McCanns' spokesman's offer of 2000 euros a week for coverage of the case to PJ's detriment ?

The McCanns' obsession with public opinion simply confirms the GUILT evidenced by damning forensic of Madeleine's tragic death. One or other parent is responsible, both are party to cover up being paid for by Portuguese & British taxpayers. 10.25 a.m.

2345 said...

Felicity & All,

RE; RICHMOND CHARITY - ARTICLE

Ironside says on Alsabella's blog

"Richmond is 5 mins away from Kingston on Thames ... where Oldfield works and lives... the McCanns didn't go missing for an hour or two by any chance ?"

Clarrie's still working hard on PR diversionary tactics ... 10.05 a.m.

ratonthebeam said...

Should this not have said,
"Kate and Gerry McCann, whose four-year-old daughter was allegedly kidnapped from Praia da Luz, Portugal, on May 3 last year, met representatives from East Sheen-based charity Missing People and Missing Children Europe."

2345 said...

Felicity & All,

I've no wish to change today's topic but thought you'd find local Guardian article interesting - published by Alsabella ... 22 comments in response Guardian's HYS are all vociferous ...

Maddie's parents seek charity's help
By Ian Mason
Comment | Read Comments (22)

Missing: Madeleine McCann went missing in Portugal last May
The parents of missing Madeleine McCann have visited Richmond to find out more about the work of a charity that helps locate missing people.

Kate and Gerry McCann, whose four-year-old daughter was kidnapped from Praia da Luz, Portugal, on May 3 last year, met representatives from East Sheen-based charity Missing People and Missing Children Europe.

Ross Miller, of Missing People, said the McCanns wanted to find out more about the charity's role within Missing Children Europe, the European Federation for Missing and Sexually Exploited Children, and to hear about its work first hand.

He said: "Kate and Gerry were very interested to learn more about our new research programme.

"This aims to fill gaps in the information currently available about the numbers of people going missing, why they go missing, their experiences while away and the impact on those left behind."

On the same day, 302 days after Madeleine's abduction, Gerry wrote on his blog praising the work of the charity.

advertisement
He said: "Missing People were responsible for displaying Madeleine's image on Marble Arch, along with two other missing children last summer.

"It was heartening to hear today that one of those children was recovered as a direct result and the other has also been successfully returned to his family."

The Richmond Guardian also received reports that the couple visited the Depot restaurant, in Tideway Yard, Mortlake High Street, and were being filmed.

However, staff at the restaurant remained tight-lipped about the couple's visit and refused to comment about the filming.

12:14pm Tuesday 4th March 2008

Print Email this CommentPosted by: chriss on 8:04pm Tue 4 Mar 08
i hope this is a joke ,they left 3 babies on there own with the result that madeleine vanished, i hope no charity gives them the time of day
i hope this is a joke ,they left 3 babies on there own with the result that madeleine vanished, i hope no charity gives them the time of dayQuote | Report this postPosted by: Jennifer, Oakham on 8:11pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Is it April Fools day already:? These child neglectors visiting a childrens charity. Interesting, seeing as their fund was not set up as charity, but as a company which in turn has duped countless people.
Is it April Fools day already:? These child neglectors visiting a childrens charity. Interesting, seeing as their fund was not set up as charity, but as a company which in turn has duped countless people.Quote | Report this postPosted by: Loz, England on 8:12pm Tue 4 Mar 08
There is no evidence that Madeleine was 'kidnapped'. Her parents are official suspects (arguidos) in her disappearance and are being investigated by the Portuguese Police. The Missing People charity would do well to distance themselves from Mr and Mrs McCann who admit to leaving three children under the age of four alone in an unlocked apartment while they wined and dined at a considerable distance. The so-called 'recovered' child is in fact still living with the man for whom she left home. Perhaps facts should be checked by journalists prior to publication.
There is no evidence that Madeleine was 'kidnapped'. Her parents are official suspects (arguidos) in her disappearance and are being investigated by the Portuguese Police.

The Missing People charity would do well to distance themselves from Mr and Mrs McCann who admit to leaving three children under the age of four alone in an unlocked apartment while they wined and dined at a considerable distance.

The so-called 'recovered' child is in fact still living with the man for whom she left home.

Perhaps facts should be checked by journalists prior to publication.Quote | Report this postPosted by: LB, Birmingham. on 8:23pm Tue 4 Mar 08
That's one 'charity' that I shall make a point of NOT donating to! Having meetings with 2 self-confessed negligent 'parents' who are also OFFICIAL police suspects in the disappearance of their own daughter! And why does the article say Maddie was 'kidnapped'?? That is NOT what the investigating police force think! Maddie has 'disappeared'. The police are trying to find out what happened to her - and are being hampered by the McCanns non-co-operation!
That's one 'charity' that I shall make a point of NOT donating to! Having meetings with 2 self-confessed negligent 'parents' who are also OFFICIAL police suspects in the disappearance of their own daughter!
And why does the article say Maddie was 'kidnapped'?? That is NOT what the investigating police force think! Maddie has 'disappeared'. The police are trying to find out what happened to her - and are being hampered by the McCanns non-co-operation!

Quote | Report this postPosted by: Christine, London on 8:30pm Tue 4 Mar 08
If these two child neglecters have got time for publicity stunts, they've got time to answer the 40 questions the Policia Judiciaria asked and they refused to answer before hotfooting it back to the UK and hiring a team of expensive lawyers! A team that includes General Pinochet's extradition lawyer. Who can forget Pinochet (at death's door, according to his lawyer) being wheeled off the plane and leaping out of his wheelchair as soon as he was on safe ground?!
If these two child neglecters have got time for publicity stunts, they've got time to answer the 40 questions the Policia Judiciaria asked and they refused to answer before hotfooting it back to the UK and hiring a team of expensive lawyers! A team that includes General Pinochet's extradition lawyer. Who can forget Pinochet (at death's door, according to his lawyer) being wheeled off the plane and leaping out of his wheelchair as soon as he was on safe ground?!Quote | Report this postPosted by: Jennifer, Oakham on 8:40pm Tue 4 Mar 08
And another thing. Did they also visit reputica which is on the same street. Who specialise in reputations management? Interesting. Was this childrens charity thing just a smokescreen for the real agenda?
And another thing. Did they also visit reputica which is on the same street. Who specialise in reputations management? Interesting. Was this childrens charity thing just a smokescreen for the real agenda?Quote | Report this postPosted by: PatM, Warwick on 9:13pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Oh my goodness whatever next! Will they get a medal next,quickest way to lose a kid,go on holiday and bugger off and leave the kids! They are a disgrace!
Oh my goodness whatever next! Will they get a medal next,quickest way to lose a kid,go on holiday and bugger off and leave the kids! They are a disgrace!Quote | Report this postPosted by: Maureen L., Merseyside on 9:28pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Like LB in Birmingham and I am sure, many countless others, I shall never donate to Missing People or Missing Children Europe because of their involvement with these poor excuses for parents Gerry and Kate McCann.
Like LB in Birmingham and I am sure, many countless others, I shall never donate to Missing People or Missing Children Europe because of their involvement with these poor excuses for parents Gerry and Kate McCann.
Quote | Report this postPosted by: SuziC, Bristol on 9:33pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Why are you reporting this as a "kidnapping"? As I understand it, the Portuguese Police have classed this as a "disappearance" due to the total lack of evidence to suggest an "abduction" or "kidnapping". Ian Mason, please use the correct terminology to avoid such misrepresentations of a case. Many thanks.
Why are you reporting this as a "kidnapping"? As I understand it, the Portuguese Police have classed this as a "disappearance" due to the total lack of evidence to suggest an "abduction" or "kidnapping".
Ian Mason, please use the correct terminology to avoid such misrepresentations of a case. Many thanks.Quote | Report this postPosted by: maureen, Leeds on 9:45pm Tue 4 Mar 08
When will the media stop reporting about this vile couple, charity work indeed? this couple are the most selfish, self centered, greedy celebrity seeking media hungry vile couple, they do not do any thing for others(more so even their daughter) this is all a cover up of their real reason why they was there, this charity had better drop this couple like a hot brick, as it will have a damaging effect , to be linked any way to this couple of child neglecters (or even worse) hopefully we will find out soon as AT LAST the PJ are coming to interview them as well as their equally selfish friends and finally we will get JUSTICE FOR MADDIE!!!
When will the media stop reporting about this vile couple, charity work indeed? this couple are the most selfish, self centered, greedy celebrity seeking media hungry vile couple, they do not do any thing for others(more so even their daughter) this is all a cover up of their real reason why they was there, this charity had better drop this couple like a hot brick, as it will have a damaging effect , to be linked any way to this couple of child neglecters (or even worse) hopefully we will find out soon as AT LAST the PJ are coming to interview them as well as their equally selfish friends and finally we will get JUSTICE FOR MADDIE!!!Quote | Report this postPosted by: Muzzy, Warwick on 9:52pm Tue 4 Mar 08
What is Gerry McCann talking about? One of the three children whose image was projected onto Marble Arch has been, "recovered."? Well, it's not Madeleine he's talking about and it's not the boy. So, it must be Sammy Osborn and Sammy has not been, "recovered." Discovered maybe, but not reunited with her family. So, in what way has she been, "recovered."? Recovered from what? Certainly not from the place she disappeared to and is still living.
What is Gerry McCann talking about? One of the three children whose image was projected onto Marble Arch has been, "recovered."? Well, it's not Madeleine he's talking about and it's not the boy. So, it must be Sammy Osborn and Sammy has not been, "recovered." Discovered maybe, but not reunited with her family. So, in what way has she been, "recovered."? Recovered from what? Certainly not from the place she disappeared to and is still living. Quote | Report this postPosted by: Muzzy, Warwick on 9:57pm Tue 4 Mar 08
And Gerry, you could always ask that young girl's family if they think she's been, "recovered."
And Gerry, you could always ask that young girl's family if they think she's been, "recovered." Quote | Report this postPosted by: Eddie Springer-Spaniel, pdl on 10:53pm Tue 4 Mar 08
[bold]Why can't the press see through this pair of murdering fools[/bold]
Why can't the press see through this pair of murdering fools Quote | Report this postPosted by: k r, wandsworth on 10:59pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Until the truth is known about these prime suspects in the disappearance of thier own daughter, missing children's charities ought to keep thier distance I would have thought. Bad move for your donations, I reckon!
Until the truth is known about these prime suspects in the disappearance of thier own daughter, missing children's charities ought to keep thier distance I would have thought. Bad move for your donations, I reckon!Quote | Report this postPosted by: Minger Ginge, The Beautiful South on 10:59pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Glad to see people are aware of the McScams machinations;it's just the media that like`to pretend all's fine...
Glad to see people are aware of the McScams machinations;it's just the media that like`to pretend all's fine...Quote | Report this postPosted by: t g r, PARIS on 11:00pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Apparently the police are in the UK this week to re interview the charming couple.
Apparently the police are in the UK this week to re interview the charming couple.Quote | Report this postPosted by: Kirsteen, Glasgow on 11:00pm Tue 4 Mar 08
This couple deliberately chose to go out every night socialising with their frinds, leaving 3 toddlers alone where they could neither be seen or heard and then called this 'responsible parenting' Any childrens charity associating itself with them should be banned. And tat's before we even consider the fact that the police named them the prime suspects in their daughter's disappearance. This whole thing is unbelievable.
This couple deliberately chose to go out every night socialising with their frinds, leaving 3 toddlers alone where they could neither be seen or heard and then called this 'responsible parenting' Any childrens charity associating itself with them should be banned. And tat's before we even consider the fact that the police named them the prime suspects in their daughter's disappearance. This whole thing is unbelievable. Quote | Report this postPosted by: Sid, Bristol on 11:04pm Tue 4 Mar 08
very unpleasant pair. and as for that bizarre adman in the pink shirt? Crist only knows how its all going to pan out.
very unpleasant pair. and as for that bizarre adman in the pink shirt? Crist only knows how its all going to pan out.Quote | Report this postPosted by: patti on 11:04pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Madeleine went missing because these parents left 3 kids under 4 alone, night after night in a strange environment. I hope they contacted you for parental classes, something badly needed by them, considering they still deny their responsibility in that. I truly hope they will not be permitted to obfuscate their despicable role, that maybe even worse than "just" neglectful -ie being actively involved- by getting involved in ANY organization that works for/with children. It would make a mockery of child well being activities.
Madeleine went missing because these parents left 3 kids under 4 alone, night after night in a strange environment. I hope they contacted you for parental classes, something badly needed by them, considering they still deny their responsibility in that. I truly hope they will not be permitted to obfuscate their despicable role, that maybe even worse than "just" neglectful -ie being actively involved- by getting involved in ANY organization that works for/with children.
It would make a mockery of child well being activities.

Quote | Report this postPosted by: Elvis, The Moon on 11:23pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Hey i've just spotted Maddy coming out of a chip shop on the moon. Report that. Idiot press.
Hey i've just spotted Maddy coming out of a chip shop on the moon. Report that. Idiot press.Quote | Report this postPosted by: Cas, UK on 11:47pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Any charity that deals with the McCanns will not be getting any of my money. Tell the police what you have done with your daughter, how can you call yourself Catholics, and not allow her a place to rest in peace. I hope you rot in hell for what you have done, you are both liars and fraudently trying to con the world. WELL KATE AND GERRY WE DONT BELIEVE YOU ANY MORE. GAME OVER TELL THE TRUTH. have a little respect for your little girl, and respect for the twins, put an end to this charade.
Any charity that deals with the McCanns will not be getting any of my money.
Tell the police what you have done with your daughter, how can you call yourself Catholics, and not allow her a place to rest in peace. I hope you rot in hell for what you have done, you are both liars and fraudently trying to con the world.
WELL KATE AND GERRY WE DONT BELIEVE YOU ANY MORE. GAME OVER TELL THE TRUTH. have a little respect for your little girl, and respect for the twins, put an end to this charade.Quote | Report this postPosted by: Issy, Manchester on 5:40am today
Gerry is heartened to hear that one of the other children was recovered as a direct result of the marble arch publicity.What a load of codswallop,she was found 6 months later,hardly a direct result.Get your facts right Gerry!
Gerry is heartened to hear that one of the other children was recovered as a direct result of the marble arch publicity.What a load of codswallop,she was found 6 months later,hardly a direct result.Get your facts right Gerry!Quote | Report this postAdd your commentName:
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2345 said...

Felicity,

Charity begins at home.

No mention of the twins they're supposed to be caring for - parked in the creche for the day, yet again, no doubt !!! 11.15 a.m.

LittleGreyCell said...

12.15

Morning Everyone and Hope,

Good point by Ironside about the proximity of Richmond to Kingston, although if RO'B HAS changed his story, presumably he would be avoiding Gerry? Actually, since I frequent Kingston myself, perhaps I'd better take evasionary tactics too...

Hope: I'm a bit worried about you placing your marvellous trophy atop your SKY ariel...you do realise that this will enable you to receive nothing but Clarrie TV? It's full of ludicrous programming, frankly. Here's part of today's schedule:-

10.00am Gerryanory. A collection of fairytales for the naive.

7.00pm Not the 10.00 O'clock News. Really good news where nothing bad about people whose names begin with Mc and end in Cann is ever reported.

8.00pm Clarence Mitchell, Master of the Universe. A documentary featuring one of the world's most eminent Theoretical Spin Doctors, whose speciality is Quantum Levity and postulating theories for achieving a Singularity of the Media.

9.00pm LeicesterEnders. A popular soap watched by millions of people around the world. Concerns a middle class family who keep losing things, and their scary quantum mechanic, Clarence the Mitchell Brother.

10.00pm The X Marks The Spot Factor. A thorough investigation into Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, featuring people on a week's holiday who feel the urge to scrub the walls and clean the curtains.

10.30pm Double Bill: Come Dine With Me, followed by Cheers. Both set in a Tapas Bar in a holiday destination.

11.00pm Ramsay's Tapas Nightmares. Charting the falling out of a group of food-loving friends.

Shameless Black comedy about a dysfuntional family.

X

Anonymous said...

Missing People Charity

“Missing People” the Richmond charity (no.1020419) visited by the McCanns. I did a little research on and this charity and it is one that John McCann seems to be involved with since Madeleine’s disappearance. Below is their relaunch press release from May 07 with John McCann as guest of honour.

"John McCann, the uncle of missing Madeleine McCann will help the UK’s only charity dedicated to missing people to re-launch on International Missing Children’s Day (25 May). On the same day the charity will unveil its re-launched official yellow charity ribbon as well as the first ever UK direct mailing to help find missing children.
Missing People, the new name for National Missing Persons Helpline, said that an estimated 210,000 reports of missing people are made to UK police forces each year. Around two-thirds of these concern young people under the age of 18.
John McCann, Madeleine’s Uncle, will then visit staff and volunteers at the charity Head Office in London on International Missing Children's Day (25.05.2007) to show his support, from 10:30am.
Chief Executive of Missing People Paul Tuohy said: “Madeleine’s disappearance has been a wake-up call that ‘missing’ is a social issue. Our charity offers support to around 2000 families each year and directly as a result of our work we find 10 missing people every week.”
Wizard

Anonymous said...

Missing People

What I forgot to mention on my last post was that John McCanns involvement with this charity does go someway in explaining their behaviour in inviting the Mc's to their offices for the royal tour.

I would have thought that most charities of this kind would not touch them with a barge poll!

Wizard

LittleGreyCell said...

12.25

Aarrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!

Have I got the wrong Tapasnik living in Kingston?

Sorry guys, but they all look the same to me - guilty!

2345 said...

Felicity & All,

Thought Coldwater's (3 A's) - Reply From Scotland Yard would interest you -

Hello again.

Just had this sent to me from a contact outraged my Clarence Mitchell's conduct. Apparently this was sent to Scotland Yard and has been forwarded to Leics Police.


Subject: The McCann case and Clarence Mitchell
Your enquiry: The spokesmen for Kate and Gerry McCann has announced publically that he has been 'briefed' by members of the British Police with reference to the case of Madeleine McCann. As spokesperson for the two chief suspects in this case, and as there are investigative branches of this case involving at least one British police force, does this not cross the line and enter itself into criminality?

I would like a clear, legally explicit explanation of the position please.

If Mr. Mitchell has crossed any lines will this be followed up? Thank you
Confirmation: Yes

lizzy said...

2345,
Thanks for posting the interesting post re Coldwaters letter, interesting, nowonder CM has been quiet of late. He appears to have disappeared himself.Lizzy

2345 said...

Lizzy,

Your welcome. 2.35 p.m.

2345 said...

wizard,

Thanks for Richmond charity info - all is explained. Also read on 3 A's that a relative of Kate's (female - cousin?) is involved with Isle of Man Charity. Awarded £90,000 from Children In Need - website details since deleted. 3.35 p.m.

2345 said...

little grey comedienne,

I'm very worried about Hillary.
Have you booked Opus's flight and packed the herrings ? 3.40 p.m.

Anonymous said...

2345 said...
Felicity & All,

Thought Coldwater's (3 A's) - Reply From Scotland Yard would interest you -


do Scotland Yard now they have replied yet?
you crack me up 2345 roflmao.

dylan said...

LGC - you are a very funny lady!
Loved your TV line up for Hope. You really remind me of an old friend who's wit was akin to yours but I know she doesn't live anywhere near you so it can't be her!

Hope & viv, still reading but not much time for posting but I did notice your squabble for Mr Clooney! Did either of you see "oh Brother, where art thou?" Based on Homer's Odysee? - my hair!!! Lol. Great film.

Dyl x

2345 said...

anonymouse,

I can't take credit for that - you're cracked already. 3.35 p.m.

hope4truth said...

LG clevergirl

OMG it is worse than you prepared me for all I can see on TV now is Stig of the Dump staring sketch tooth man as stig (I can see why people are scared)...

I am off to fetch a ladder to get the damn thing down and hope normal service resumes shortly...

I really dont want to loose my toilet roll cover lady where will I put her if I put my trophy on the systern? I could move her to another bathroom but they have there own toilet roll ladys and if one has two the others will find out and all demand a friend as well???

Oh this award has changed my life for the worse so much confusion....

hope4truth said...

Dylan

HI how are you???

I loved Bother Where Art Thou I did not know what to expect when I went to see it as I had not read any reviews (George was in it and that was all that is needed to get me to the cinema) It was so funny...

xxx

15.37

2345 said...

hope4truth,

Nail it to the head of your bed -
sweet dreams guaranteed !!! 4.50 p.m.

2345 said...

Hope4truth,

I'm getting slack - fix a mirror on the opposite wall and you can sit up in bed and gaze at it.
3.55 p.m.

hope4truth said...

2345

LOL that is really funny I can touch it to make sure my win was real and gaze at it's reflection at the same time....

Glad you are not jealous xxx

ratonthebeam said...

Well, well, well. Mister Pink has been a busy wee bee. The comments have all been pulled from the Richmond Guardian article now! Probably because not a single one of them was favourable to the McCanns?

Lindsey said...

Is anyone having trouble getting onto the 3arguidos site?

I have looked on another site I visit regarding Madeleine, some poster on there is saying the PJ have arrived at Birmingham airport.

I wonder if that is why the 3 arguidos is having trouble.

felicity said...

Hi all

I am very interested in this charity Missing People that John McCann, Gerry's brother helped to re-lauch in May 07 - talk about leaving no stone unturned. I just visited their webpage and found it very difficult to find details of any missing people and when I clicked on a map for the East Midlands there was no sign of Madeleine.

It is very odd this charity is based in Richmond which as I know is right by where the Oldfields live. Oddly enough, also, one of the wealthiest areas in the UK - so perhaps they thought donations would be good!

LGC I love your comedy on here - especially about the TV Schedule!

I am amazed to read Clarence is again just getting articles pulled + the one from the ~Richmond paper and even the Daily Express. Extreme paranoia does seem to have set in - the DE article was bland and pro-McCann - was it the comments in spite of so many antis being banned that upset him?

LittleGreyCell said...

16.30

2345,

Actually, like Docmac and myself, Opus actually isn't too keen on flying - and after all, he IS supposed to be a flightless species (like Docmac and myself).

However, for the good of the cause, he'll be joining the Democrats on the stump so they don't get the hump.

His plan is to take the herrings into the cabin; this way, for some reason, he guarantees getting the whole of the compartment to himself.

As for Clinton or Obama, well, Opus sees it as a black and white issue (with a small touch of orange). He doesn't mind who gets in, as long as they chop up the Neocons into tiny pieces and don't feed them to the penguins.

X Little Grey Campaigner

felicity said...

Linsey - the PJ have previously arrived at East Midlands Airport, not Birmingham - where does he/she get this information from?


Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

16.45

Dear Dillie,

Many thanks for your very kind comments!

I wish it WAS me who is your friend - I wouldn't have the competition that way!

X Little Grey Competitor

felicity said...

Sorry Rat - I misread that -the comments in the Richmond article pulled, not the actual article - as I can see above they are certainly not favourable to the McCanns. In fact could not have put it better myself!

So much for public opinion being favourable to the McCanns eh and in an area where they thought they could make a mint with all those wealthy residents...I dont know how they got the nerve to go out on tour.

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

16.40

Hope,

Please be careful up that ladder! I would send Opus, but obviously he doesn't like heights...

Could you perhaps have an 'ensemble' of Award in a Melange of Toilet Roll Ladies? If you advertised that in the Sunday Express magazine at Christmas, you'd make a fortune!

X

dylan said...

Hiya Hope, I'm fine,thanks, just over-worked & not paid at all!
I feel I should bow to your superiority now that you have such fame and fortune! I hope you don't see us as beneath you now - you on your throne of worshipfulness?!!
Maybe you will get an invite to cucumber sandwich garden parties now at HRH Rosiepops'?

Please don't forget us mere mortals here!!

I do feel sorry for you that you have such decisions to make now though, such as whether to move your toilet roll skirt. 'tis such a toughie! Maybe, you could hammer your trophy til its very thin, fashion it into pleats, have it appropriately inscribed and it could actually BE a toilet roll skirt? Just a thought!

Glad you are well and that there has been nothing more than gentle teasing here the last couple of days. It's good to see & I'm happier to read.

Take care. Got to clean my humble abode now & then get on with some work.

Dillie x

felicity said...

Hiya Hope and Dillie

hammer until it is very thin and fashion it into pleats - that is causing me to titter yet again!

Isnt cleaning a pain!

viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

16.45

Lindsey,

I had trouble earlier, but the 3As appears to be up and running now.

Viv,

Thank you! Clarence kind of writes his own comedy, if you know what I mean.

Oh, regarding which airport, are the PJ travelling on Metodo Airlines? Perhaps they were aiming for East Midlands airport, but at least they are in the right country - and it IS the thought that counts...

felicity said...

Hiya LGC

Maybe Clarence and Gerry heard the PJ were flying directly towards Rothley Manor and ordered airport controllers to re-direct them as far away as possible? Never mind as Rosie explains you can cover distance by road at an unbelievable rate of knots i.e. PDL to Huelva was just 30 minutes so on that basis once they disembark at Birmingham they should arrive at Rothley Manor in about 5 minutes!

Viv x

2345 said...

Viv & All,

Perhaps the eagles have landed ...
Clarrie seems very anxious to report the Richmond fiasco doesn't he ?

Gerry takes lots of days off work as a full time employee and at taxpayers expense. 6.00 p.m.

isis said...

Evening all, i think we give clarence too much credit, i dont think that he weilds that much influence,he has to have backing from higher up. Acting alone he surely does not have the hold on the media that we think he has, someone is backing him imo.

Niki said...

Good evening all. Sorry for changing subject, but found this at 3A, and thought it was very interesting. Had no idea this was discussed back in October?!?

Post subject: Re: "Metodo 3 detective arrested for cocaine trafic" by Levy !!!
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:44 am by blackwatch

possible fedrules. it was a middle-class drug for all those years (some argue it still is). here's the Daily Mirror 'cocaine' speculation in full. tarted up a bit of course .. but ALL pure speculation ... there's bugger all evidence really ..

Daily Mirror/Oct 2007

Someone on the internet is now spreading malicious rumours of 'cocaine use' in relation to the Tapas 9 and the events of May 3rd. It's all outrageous speculation of course. Likely to be no truth in it at all.

Shockingly, some have even gone so far as to suggest that Robert Murat might have used his frequent trips between Exeter and Praia Da Luz to take advantage of Portugal's new lax drug laws.

Is 'cocaine use' an unreasonable suggestion to make - as speculative as it is? Probably. Yes. There's no evidence at all for one.

There was certainly something blurring the friend's judgement that week and I'm confident that drink and a general sense of joi de verve were not enough to alter their behaviour quite this radically during their stay. That doesn't mean to say it they used cocaine. There could be much simpler explanations.

I can't see anybody that might be drunk carrying out this crime. Not for carrying out something as audacious and brutally self-preserving as this. Alcohol is a depressant. Reactions times are dulled. People too prone to error.

IF the McCanns and their friends are responsible for covering up a death and disposing of a body it was a thoroughly audacious act that must have been carried out with extreme confidence and a sense of compulsion.

If someone else was to carry this whole thing out, it's possible to entertain the idea that such people were not in an 'unaltered' state of mind.

Some people have outrageously suggested that Kate looks the most obvious casualty. But this could come down to somekind of compulsive-obsessive disorder (the compulsion to jog with such discipline was frankly bizarre only two days after her child went missing). Her weight-loss looks like an issue too (cocaine is known to suppress the user's appetite - but there's no evidence to suggest she has ever used the drug).

What gets me is the suggestion that they were ever able to pull this off in a normal - unaltered/sober state of mind. Anti-depressants and alcohol? It's plausible I suppose. But again - reactions would be dulled, and there would be greater liklihood of serious error.

How could they ever have thought they could get away with it? If they were drunk - how could they have not slipped up? What would compel them to DO such a thing against their better judgement? And how were they able to react so quickly and so ruthlessly on demand and at such short notice?

What do we know about the effects of cocaine?

A feeling of superemacy? Sounds like cocaine.
Unpredictable? Cocaine.
Violence and aggression? Alchohol/cocaine
Financial pressures? Sounds like cocaine.
Energetic, mentally alert, distrubed sleep? Sounds like cocaine.

Some users find that the drug helps them to perform intellectual tasks more quickly - which what makes it so popular with professionals.

Mixed with alcohol it produces something called cocaethylene which only serves to intensify the cocaine's effects. The cocaine also reduces the sedative/depressant effects of alcohol. Euphoria is more pronounced but the user is likely to feel less 'drunk' whilst cocaine is still in the bloodstream.

It's always bothered me that people expected the perpetrators to carry this through after consuming so much alcohol (or even mildly drunk).

Alcohol alone increases the likelihood of error and delays responses - but combined with Cocaine - the sedative/depressant effects are made minimal.

Cocaine enhances the accuracy of responding and occasional users often report feeling they are to function more quickly, decisively and confidently than without it.

The GNR officers who arrived at the scene said the friends - whilst not drunk - were nevertheless not acting as he thought they would.

We might not be talking about chronic use of cocaine here - but it's possible the drug was present during other people's holidays at the complex - and after. It's plausible to think someone in the resort may have been using it - even if it was not the McCanns or their friends themselves.

Chronic use of the drug would lead to greater impairment. I don't think chronic users of the drug would have been able to handle such a task on the night - but it might explain behaviour leading up to it like delusions, paranoia, psychosis, erratic behaviour and possible violence.

A confident British Ex-Pat could play an interesting role here. It's already been speculated that a bi-lingual British ex-Pat may have been the organiser of the 'swinging events'.

Where did the drugs come from?

Murat and Malinka certainly appeared close allies. But there's no evidence they have any links to something as outrageous as drugs trafficking. These are just rumours.

Mark Warner have been surprisingly quiet and supportive during all this - even at the risk of their brand taking a battering from Team McCanns constant suggestions that 'staff' were involved.

And whilst it would be outrageous to lend support to vile rumours that Mark Warner were in any way involved in tolerating this kind of 'recreation' - it's an understandable enough public reaction.

Why were the Police only called at 10.45pm?

Panorama suggested that Oldfield approached the desk at 10.15pm.

What happened in that half hour?

Disposing of a body? No. It was likely it had been disposed of by then.

Disposing of drugs? It's plausible. Mark Warner used to be known as a very exclusive singles and couples brand - popular with 'high-living' and sporty types.

As for Madeleine? Well. You do hear some very strange stories.
----

Viv, I know it's a far too long post, delete it if you want...
Niki 20.21

hope4truth said...

Annon

Yes you are very well done for finaly owning up to how bloody dull you are xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

19.30

Anon,

Here's somewhere you might find more interesting:-

http://www.add.org/

Tell your friends, too. They seem to have considerable trouble concentrating on the facts of the matter.

felicity said...

Hiya Nicki

Thanks for the lengthy article. A mixture of cocaine and alcohol produces a third chemical in the liver that is extremely dangerous. It can make the person behave in a bizarre way. For example a person with an aggressive personality style could become extremely violent.

Having said that, cocaine is known to seriously increase blood pressure and can cause a heart attack. Given that Gerry is a cardiologist this seems a little unlikely.

Drug users are known to be irresponsible and neglect their responsibilities.

There is clearly evidence to suggest they were very heavy alcohol users - this is also a drug and can again increase aggressiveness due to its disinhibitory effects. Alcohol is also a depressant and will make depression worse. Cocaine will make manic depression worse and increase the likelihood of the person experiencing paranoid delusions/pscyhosis.

I think there is a link between this case and subtance misuse, but the only one we know for certain, is alcohol.

Viv x

Louise said...

Well if that is the sort of speculative tosh they post on the
3A's!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope4you
You say " you hope the McCanns have not been jeered at becuase it would be cruel." Yet you
think it is ok for people to write cruel unfounded accustations on forums as long as K & G do read it.
You also think that it was wicked of the person to forward Alsabella's open letter to Mrs Healey on to her, yes it was but it was even more wicked for Alsabella to write it in the first place

Anonymous said...

New In Town

Dx Being sued?

I have just read this on 3A's site. Could be true - what do you think?

Post 7.56pm
From the latest Private Eye (p6):

RICHARD "Dirty" Desmond called in at the Oscars in LA on his way back from hawking OK! magazine around Australia, bringing along his top snapper to record the great man rubbing shoulders with Hollywood's finest.

But pressing the flesh with Elton John and other celebrities was not a pleasure he wished to share with his senior sidekick Martin "Rottweiler" Ellice - who was told to go back to head office in London and deal with the small matter of his titles being sued by the McCann family for all the rubbish stories they have carried since last year, many of which suggested - without any justification - that the parents might have killed their own child.

Although Dirty Des's lawyers offered £250,000 in an attempt to settle quickly, the McCanns declined and insisted on £1m per newspaper - a total of £4m, covering the daily and Sunday versions of the Express and Star. Outside legal experts consulted by Desmond have reported back to him: "You're f*cked."

That should, of course, be "Carter-F*cked" - for Kate and Gerry McCann have indeed turned to Britain's most aggressive libel lawyers in their attempt to stem the flow of nonsense written about them.

The bad news: The DE pulling their articles was nothing to do with progress in the investigation.

The good news: The Mcs have hired Peter Carter-Ruck and Partners. For those who don't know, this means they are really desperate.

Wizard 20.02

Niki said...

Hi Viv,

Cocaine is a drug that is very easy to get hold of, and a very usual party-drug. As doctores, of course they know they schould not use it,as they know they schould not drink too much alcohol and not smoke... but as a "happy-holiday"-thing?
I do not think that any of them are regular drug-users or addicts.
I just can't get this out of my head that some kind of drug (either Madeleine died from it or the others used it) is the secret to the "pact of silence"...

Niki, 22.06
I'm off, see you all next time:)

Anonymous said...

Peter Carter-Ruck & Partners mentioned in Private Eye article are libel lawyers, fefamation Solicitors, Media Laeyers.

Definitely trouble down at the Express.

Wizard 20.15

Lindsey said...

Hi Viv,

Someone on 3A's has a friend who works in hospitality at Birmingham airport and they say the PJ are arriving there, apparently going to the FSS before the interviews. Don't know how much is true, I haven't been able to get into the 3A's very much today. Will try to see if there is an update.

Doppelganger said...

Hope,

They are really, really trying to get to you.

The reason they are going after you like this is because you come across as being a genuine and thoughtful person.

They see this as a weakness which they are trying to exploit.

Just like Chucky Doll was trying to do all those weeks ago.

They try and get to me, but they always fail because they are attacking the person they think I am and that person only exists in their own sick imaginations.

The reality is that we are people they just cannot accept exist, kind, caring individuals who want the TRUTH and justice for a defenseless little girl.

Best Wishes

Anonymous said...

Hi Viv ,
Have just emailed some of your libellous , defaming comments to the MccANN web site . Perhaps they can get Carter Ruck to have a look at them . Mind you , with your legal background they will be no match for you , or perhaps you too will be Carter F*cked

hope4truth said...

Louise yes it would be bloody worng to jeet at any one but they dont have to read this.

They are two selfish people who put themselves above the saftey of their child.

If I lived near people like this who were allways neglecting their children I would choose to ignor them and call the police If they were out and it was obvious the children were left alone without any care.

It is very sad if Maddie was taken that they have to live through this but had they been honest and answered questions maybe I would not doubt them/.

Dinner in the garden lie everyone does it lie answer questions NO if your child is missing you answer ever single question your reputation does not bloody matter.

I would not send the Mccanns my opinions about them as that would be wrong if they read what I write I would sugest a pro site would make them feel better.

Have you read Gerrys blog because I have and I could not care who they met what they did how fast they jogged who won a tennis match I care about the progress they are making and Madeleine but she is just mentioned as an after thought.

So no I would not jeer and bully them I dont even want them jailed for neglect or if she had an accident what good would it do? But I do want to know what happend as a 3 year old child is missing and no one is reporting anything all old news no news about the letters (or if there is it is spin) and as much as they may be grieving so was Rose West when told her daughters body had been found in her garden. And then she was found guilty of Murder.

Never ever neglect children it is wrong no excuse no spin wrong if you think otherwise look at what happends a child is missing and a lot of people think they know a lot more than they are saying.

hope4truth said...

Hi Dopple

I know I learnt a lot at christmas really thought everyione cared about Madeleine but aparently her parents are more important.

I dont let anyone get to me now in fact I skip past a lot of posters as I really dont care what they say.

Reading back at the moment just read Louises post and replied I dont care what they think of me when the numpty coppied Alsabellas letter to Mrs Healy and sent it to her I thought what a sick thing to do. I thought the letter was really good and explained why people feel the way they do but it is up to Mrs Healy if she wants to read blogs condeming her daughter (and I am sure she chooses not to) but to have some twisted idiot sending it to her well what a terrible thing to do.

I give up now the McCanns need a trial if they are inocent it means there is no evidence so you would think they would like to clear their names (and maybe hire someone who is qualified in finding missing people instead of Fraud)...

They dont know me or what I do or what kind of person I am normaly I am very trusting and would be thinking how tragic (stupid selfish to leave them) bust something from early on made me think things were not as they said they were so here I am..

Hope you are well nice to see you x

LittleGreyCell said...

21.05

Have just watched a prog called Whistleblower on BBC1. A young woman journalist posed in various places as a childminder. She had had no previous experience of looking after children.

One of the places she was employed by was at Mark Warner, where she was sent to Egypt. She received no training, had inappropriate levels of children under her care, was not subjected to a CRB check (relating to Criminal Records - mandatory if you work with children)...on and on it went. She, and her fellow child minders, was there on a Tourist Visa (illegal) because it was cheaper for Mark Warner to arrange than a Working Visa. Oh, and they didn't even check her passport (let alone take up references) to make sure she was who she said she was.

On the DE some months back there was quite a heated debate about whether it would have been possible for the McCanns to have pretended that Madeleine had been in the nursery on May 3rd. Several posters wree vehement that this would have been impossible.

I do hope they saw tonight's fly-on -the-wall documentary.

Words and eating comes to mind.

hope4truth said...

LG concerned

Was that on today or did you skyplus it???

I ahve never trusted kids clubs on holiday (in fact I trust no one LOL)....

Kids seemed to be in and out of them all the time how they never lost any I will never know...

How are you I have tried to flatten my trophy but it is rock hard and cant even dent it so back to brain storming ideas???

So back to the Drawing board Dillie (I promise not to pput it in the land fill and will recycle)...

No news again today from anyone not even a poll to show 10 out of 10 normal people would not leave their children alone when they went to the pub....

LittleGreyCell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Viv,

Sorry about the removed post - I thought I was replying to someone on Alsabella's blog, but it turned up on here!

So much easier when we just had carrier pigeons...

X

LittleGreyCell said...

21.30

Hello Hope,

Yes, it was just on BBC1 from 8.00 - 9.00pm. I didn't know anything about it until I happened to catch it while I was making a fish supper (yes, seriously!).

What really hit home for me was the fact that the Tapas Lot left the kids in the nursery practically all day, every day. I ADORED being with my son all day when we went away (still do, when he's not being adolescent!) and wouldn't contemplate spending my day without him, let alone handing him over to complete strangers. I would have felt bereft.

And how would that have made him feel, with his parents having fun on the same holiday without him?

No wonder there are so many unhappy and insecure people about.

Makes me shudder.

Now, your award. Hmm. How about a lovely garden ornament? I'm sure cuddly Diarmid Gavin (sorry, D, for the spelling if you're reading this, but you know who you are) could turn it into a whole host of prize-winning gondolas, hen houses, replicas of the Marie Celeste...maybe a scale model of a Mark Warner complex?

X

hope4truth said...

LGC

I dont understand why you would go on holiday and not make the most of time with children (with no washing or washing up to be done for two whole weeks)I have adolesent problems now but we still have fun and I am dreading them saying they have better things to do in a few years time...

If any of the pros watched the program they will be using it as a defense as to why she was taken what they dont seem to realise is parents are supposed to keep children safe if she had been taken from the Creche it could be blamed on MW but if you leave your children alone and go to the Bar and dont tell MW you are doing it as they would try to sell you a babysiter then it is no one elses fault than Gerry and Kate (and the abductor if there was one) but you cant blame MW (bet they try)...

Going to put my statue in the garden next to the Radio Gnome a friend bought me for Christmas (I know I am hard to buy for but a radio Gnome???)LOL x

leigh3 said...

The McCann Machine of media manipulators. Do they want a fight? Who gives a Carter F*** They'll make a lot of money for the lawyers, and the media. So who's f***** then?

McCann mechanics: you'll get your day/s in court. Excellent!
Justice for Madeleine will happen, despite the manipulators, imo.

Libel court - a nasty place for nasty people. Rely on it.
Maddie, as all children, rely on Justice of another kind, God bless them.

leigh3 said...

2345

Mark Warner will defend its reputation for 'family friendly' holidays, regardless of McCann machinations.

Libel court. I always said it would end up there, regardless of criminal proceedings.

There are reputations and mega money involved in this case. The Mcs are poor wannabes pulling favours, imo. Companies, employing hundreds, will bide their time, and strike at the optimum moment.
Mark Warner employees are witnesses. Mark Warner as a company can afford to wait, and sue later - if the target has money of course.I doubt whether the provincial wannabes have money now, and they'll be paupers when this is over.
So they should be, imo. Making money from the story of neglected infants is obscene.

leigh3 said...

Anonymouse.
Emailed Carter F***? Your emails are relevant?
How amusing, you are.

felicity said...

Hi Linsey

I checked the arrivals at Birmingham there was just one flight in from Portugal today at 13.35,

13:35 WW 1646 Lisbon 1 WW 1646

It would be really great if they have arrived.

Hope and LGC

I share your horror at the thought of just dumping your kinds whilst on holiday. I absolutely adored being with my kids all the time whilst on holiday and never dumped them anywhere. To me having a great holiday was seeing their delighted little faces peering into a rock pool or looking at a dead dog fish they found, playing in the boat with them. I just cannot for the life of me understand how parents have kids and then just dont want to be with them. It is these kids who grow up insecure and not knowing how to love and care for others - they never had the luxury. It should not be a luxury, why bring children into the world if you just dont want to be bothered with then? It is the same with people and pets really, I can never understand why people have them and then neglect and abuse them. There is something very seriously wrong with such people. People who cannot manage to be kind to children or animals are very unpleasant people.

Wizard - Carter Ruck - libel actions ? I am going to have a better look at that but I would be really amazed!

Viv x

Anonymous said...

READ THE POST PROPERLY LEIGH ANON
SAID HE HAD EMAILED MCCANN WEB SITE.
I AM REPLYING TO YOU, COS IT SEEMS NOONE ELSE WANTS TO. LOL.

leigh3 said...

Nighty night, anonymouse. Count your pennies. You'll need them :-)

Ta ra for now, Felicity and Friends of Madeleine. Every moment is/was worth it, chicas.
Leigh3
xo

felicity said...

Hiya Doppel

Great to see you on here again. I agree they exploitative, manipulative little vultures always looking for some line of attack. Often on the DE is was as pathetic as making fun of someone's name or a typo. What insignificant and desperate little twits. A bit like the anon idiot above who has emailed Carter Ruck - if this person had a brain cell she would know that solicitors only act on the instructions of their paying clients and will laugh at her. How sad!

Viv x

felicity said...

Anon, you are getting rude and angry again - if you do that you know what happens. Please use lower case and dont shout and abuse.

Viv x

Anonymous said...

Sorry Viv.

felicity said...

Nite Nite Leigh

Look forward to reading you tomorrow.

Viv x

docmac said...

Hi Viv

I have not had much opportunity to post lately, but I read with interest when I can as there seem to be a couple of possible developments in the case. At last, if true. I am of course most intrigued by the rumour that the PJ have arrived. Keep up the good work and goodnight to you and anyone else about. I'll probably be back later in the week.

hope4truth said...

Viv and anyone else still up

I agree children are children for such a short time and I cant imagine Holidays without them by my side...

I am off to bed see you all tomorrow xxx

Anonymous said...

Doc,

We have missed you,
I like your posts and it is not the same here without you.
Goodnight and speak to you soon.
what are you up to?

Dee

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

The rumour the PJ have arrived is at best an intriguing suggestion at the moment but we shall see. I do not think it is likely the McCanns have hired Carter Ruck - if they were going to sue for libel this would be good PR for them and would most certainly be in the national press.

It is indeed the lull before the storm but I am sure there will be a development soon. Did you read about the McCann links to the Richmond "charity"?

Nite Hope - I still enjoy holidays with my youngest son even now and he is 28!

Viv x

docmac said...

Hi Dee

I've just been working pretty hard and it's a month of family occasions on my spouse's side. I don't really like to comment unless I've had time to read things through properly and I have not had the chance to do so.

Viv I scanned the the Richmond thing but that's all.

Gotta go, I'm bushed. Sleep well all.

felicity said...

Nite Doc,

call back soon:-)

viv x

felicity said...

Hi all, remember Rosiepops referring to us as a bunch of nazis - it should take more care, including referring to me as HIV etc. It is libel and could result in an award of damages if I took action against he/she and others. Additionally the police are now involved. I am fed up of them bleating about libel on here - they should get their own house in order, stop breaking the criminal law with their hate mongering comments and stop libelling me and others - or face the consequences.



Libel means defamation of character. I think the suggestion the McCanns are about to sue newspapers for defamation is absurd and so are the suggestions of £4M in damages. Damages awarded in the UK are far more conservative than that. This couple admitted leaving their tiny children alone for hours every single night of their holiday which is child abuse and a serious criminal offence. They are also prime suspects in a criminal investigation that they killed Madeleine and disposed of her body. This is fact. It is not defamation of their character. It seems to me the latest campaign by Clarence Mitchell to shut everyone up is to keep on threatening libel actions. Well I, for one, am not taking him seriously. I have been on the receiving end of libel for months and have proof of that.

Viv x



Warning to chatroom users after libel award for man labelled a Nazi· High court orders lecturer to pay £10,000 damages
· Lawyers say case confirms existing law applies on net
Owen Gibson, media correspondent The Guardian, Thursday March 23 2006 Article historyAbout this articleClose This article appeared in the Guardian on Thursday March 23 2006 on p5 of the National news section. It was last updated at 07:20 on March 23 2006. A political argument that erupted in a remote corner of cyberspace and descended into vicious name-calling could lead to a spate of libel actions by contributors to internet message boards, the man at the centre of the case claimed yesterday.

The dark side of the blogosphere was revealed by a libel action brought by Michael Keith-Smith, a former Conservative party member who stood for Ukip in Portsmouth North at the last election. He said he was moved to sue after a woman with whom he was debating the merits of military action in Iraq began a campaign of name-calling that started by describing him as "lard brain" and culminated in falsely labelling him a "Nazi", a "racist bigot" and a "nonce".

Tracy Williams, a college lecturer from Oldham, was ordered by a high court judge to pay £10,000 in damages, as well as Mr Keith-Smith's £7,200 costs, and told never to repeat the allegations.

The case is one of the first of its kind between two private individuals to go to court and, said lawyers, highlighted issues that would become more prominent as internet usage continued to grow and blogging, social networking and community sites became yet more popular.

Mr Keith-Smith told the Guardian that he took action after a debate about the Iraq war in 2003 on a Yahoo! message board with about 100 members turned ugly. "She was very pro-Bush. Initially, she called me lard brain and I wasn't particularly concerned about that. Then she called me a Nazi," he said.

He has also taken action against a second poster, he said, with whom he claimed to have settled for a sum "in the region of £30,000".

"They started saying I was on a sex offenders' list and that people shouldn't let me near their children," said Mr Keith-Smith, who is also chairman of the Conservative Democratic Alliance, which bills itself as "the leading voice of the radical Tory right".

He resolved to take legal action after the pair accused his wife of being a prostitute. But once his solicitors petitioned the court to find out the identity of Ms Williams, who contributed to the forum under a pseudonym, the abuse got worse.

"It's a matter of principle. I had no proof that anyone who read this took it seriously. I just didn't see why she should be allowed to get away with it," he said.

Legal experts said the case should be taken as a warning to the millions of people in the UK debating contentious issues on message boards, in chatrooms and on their own blogs that the laws of libel applied just as they would if the comments were published in a leaflet or newsletter.

But despite claims from some that Judge Alistair MacDuff's high court decision would hamper freedom of speech, most said the case merely provided confirmation of the existing law.

"You can't say this is something that should just be allowed to carry on. I don't think it is going to open any floodgates; it's a quite sensible application of the law," said Caroline Keane, a partner at media law firm Wiggin LLP.

But Mark Stephens, head of media law at Finer Stephens Innocent, said the case should trigger a wider debate about whether the libel law was best suited to deal with such cases. If a chatroom was self-moderating and had a limited circulation, he questioned whether such cases should ever reach court.

Most such cases never reach court because most complaints tend to be to an ISP or site owner, which would take down the defamatory content as soon as it was notified and the person making the libellous allegations would back down.

FAQ: Internet libel

Should internet service providers be worried about libel?

The issue of liability was a grey area for ISPs, but a workable system has developed through European and UK law whereby ISPs are not generally considered liable as long as they act to take down potentially libellous material when notified.

Does this affect freedom of speech?

Some have argued that in ISPs' haste to take down material complained about, they are in effect curtailing freedom of speech.

Why haven't more of these cases come to court?

Lawyers say cases between individuals have tended to be settled before reaching court.

What about site owners?

Uncertainty remains over whether a site owner such as the BBC would be liable, particularly if it claimed to moderate comments before they were added to a website.

felicity said...

Just been reading the pros - they are back to well Mark Warner offered a listening service so the McCanns were doing better than that they were listening themselves, and it is all Mark Warner's fault for making the parents believe it was safe to leave their children alone like that.

Also they seem to be trying to use the programme on BBC pointing out how poor the Mark Warner child care was, apparently, to blame them again, rather than the McCanns.

So qualified doctors who make the choice to just leave their kids alone - that was Mark Warners fault. Likewise qualified doctors who choose to go on holiday and just dump their kids every day with people they dont even know, who turn out to not even be qualified, that was Mark Warners fault too.

Good job most of us believe what the law says, the people that are responsible for the care of their own tiny children, are the parents...(!)

What they fail to mention also is there were just two forms of child care offered in PDL - taking the chidren to the creche, or hiring a babysitter - neither of which the McCanns chose to bother with. But, no, none of it is their fault!

Who would leave any little child with these awful people? They would just leave them alone, and if something happened say 'oh well its not my fault'.

They disgust me

Viv x

2345 said...

leigh3,

Pleased to read your comments about MW. This pair defy belief -
they're a public menace trampling over all and sundry to save their own miserable skins.

I've always believed that the conclusion of the case will be the start of other equally serious issues being redressed. 10.30 a.m.

hope4truth said...

Viv

I knew they would do that I said last night when LGC told me about he whistleblower program the pros would turn it into MWs fault Maddie was taken..

Pathetic the lot of them If they had used a babysitting servie or the creche and she had gone missing then yes but when you dont want to pay for a serivice or use the free one and still bugger off out for dinner with your mates MW cant be held responsible.

I feel very safe in my house but I would not go out after dark and leave my door open and my children in bed...

I tink that CM needs to tell some of his people to shut up if MW need to make themselves look good and stop the buck there must be a lot of evidence of the scale of the neglect that they witnessed especialy if all of them went to Chaplins on the 2nd and left the kids alone for hours and Mrs Fenn reported Maddie crying... I cant see the general public who are unaweat that this may have happend thinking it was like having dinner in your garden.

Not many people I know think they did the right thing the few that say it was not far away are shocked if I tell them they may have been half a mile away and a neighbor heard Maddie crying for hours while they had to be found and dragged back...

Not good PR at all...

I am off see you later xxx

ratonthebeam said...

There is also the paranoia that eventually builds up over long periods of cocaine abuse.

As in, "everybody is talking about me and saying cruel things about me and they have got to be stopped!"

And, "people don't like me because my boobs aren't big enough."

Sound familiar? at all?

???

leigh3 said...

Hogan International...fraud investigators? Metodo3...fraud investigators? McCanns ... hire them.

Hmmm. 1+1+1 = 3.

That's how the Police and others see it, imo.