12 Mar 2008


'MCCANNS ARE LYING' 24th SeptemberMadeleine McCann Monday September 24,2007 By David Pilditch and Martin Evans in Praia da Luz Have your say(24) Portuguese police believe Gerry and Kate McCann are using friends to hide their role in killing Madeleine.The Daily Express can reveal that their seven holiday friends may now be named as suspects as police believe they are hiding the truth about Madeleine’s death.The dramatic move comes as it was reported that former chief suspect Robert Murat is to be told he will not face charges over the four-year-old’s disappearance. Ruling him out of the four-month investigation will leave Kate and Gerry McCann as the sole suspects. Last night police sources said the decision could have a devastating impact on the McCanns’ defence.In an astonishing twist, British expat Murat could be used as a key prosecution witness against the McCanns.Almost the entire police case against Murat was built on evidence from the couple’s holiday friends. Investigators believe the McCanns “cooked up a story” that Madeleine had been kidnapped to throw them off the trail and enlisted members of their party to provide them with an alibi. They also believe the group tried to turn the focus of the investigation towards Murat.Yesterday it was revealed that police are questioning new witnesses who cast doubts over the evidence of members of the holiday group.The McCanns and their friends told how they took turns to check on their children every 30 minutes as they ate at a tapas restaurant on May 3, the night Madeleine vanished.But one Portuguese newspaper reported that employees at the restaurant insisted that only Dr Russell O’Brien, 36, and hospital consultant Matthew Oldfield, 37, left the dinner table that evening.Another witness has come forward to refute the testimony of a third friend Jane Tanner, 36, who told police she saw a man carrying a child rushing from the Ocean Club complex at around 9.15pm on May 3. Yesterday it was reported in Portugal that a new witness, an unnamed Irishman, told police he was in the same spot as Miss Tanner at the same time and saw no one.He is the second independent witness to dispute her story and police sources said they viewed Miss Tanner’s evidence as “unreliable” because of inconsistencies.Officers are concerned that she apparently changed her version of the sighting.She originally claimed she saw the suspect rushing towards the Baptista supermarket in Praia da Luz. She told police the child was wrapped in a blanket.A second independent witness reported seeing a similar man with a child in a blanket near the town’s church heading towards the beach. The route he took matches the alleged trail of death discovered by British sniffer dogs who detected the scent of a corpse.But Miss Tanner has now told detectives that the man was heading in a different direction – towards Murat’s home.Police regard her account as one of a series given by the McCanns and their friends to convince them that Madeleine had been kidnapped.Officers believe former hospital anaesthetist Kate, 39, killed her daughter by accidentally giving her an overdose of sleeping pills. They are working on the theory that consultant cardiologist Gerry, also 39, helped to dispose of Madeleine’s body. Police are awaiting results of toxicology tests carried out on bodily fluids with an 88 per cent match to Madeleine’s DNA found in the boot of a hire car the couple rented 25 days after she went missing. Dr O’Brien, along with Mr Oldfield’s wife Rachael, 36, and another friend Dr Fiona Payne, 34, said they saw Murat near the McCanns’ apartment on May 3 and their claim appeared to shatter Murat’s alibi.Detectives interrogated the McCanns at police headquarters in Portimao 17 days ago over the discrepancies. The couple were told separately later that day they were being named as suspects or arguidos.Last night another member of the McCanns’ holiday party was reported to have stepped into the mystery. The move came after it was revealed that police in Portugal were focusing their investigation on a “lost seven hours” on the day Madeleine disappeared.Now Dr Payne’s husband – medical researcher David, 41 – has claimed he saw Madeleine being put to bed when he visited the McCann flat at 7pm.Before his new testimony, police sources admitted they could not confirm the whereabouts of Kate and Madeleine after 1.29pm that day.Kate’s movements were said to be unaccounted for until she sat down to have dinner with Gerry and their friends at around 8.40pm. But the McCanns believe Mr Payne’s testimony will be crucial in proving their innocence. That would leave just an hour and a half in which they were supposed to have killed their daughter and disposed of her body.But last night a source in Portugal said police were viewing alibis provided by the McCanns’ friends with suspicion. They are convinced that some or all of them may have known what happened to Madeleine and may have helped to cover up her death. The source said police had not ruled out the possibility of naming them all as suspects – and they could face being charged as accessories. The source said: “It has long been considered a number of people may have been involved in this unfortunate case.”In Portugal yesterday it was revealed that detectives have seized a British police manual from the McCanns.Officers believe the book could be used as a key piece of evidence in building a case against them.A Portuguese police source said: “It is certainly not the sort of reading material you would expect a couple to take on a relaxing family holiday".


viv said...


So, as early as this, Gerry was making plain he wanted to spend the public's money on "significant legal expenses". Solicitors are not in the business of locating missing children but there are in the business of defending guilty parents!

Why the sudden change of heart about hiring private detectives when they were made arguidos several months later in September!

Why the refusal to admit whether he knew Murat..I think he did from political rallies, knew he was in PDL and as the above article so clearly explains, saw him as the perfect Patsy. I predict Max Clifford will make Murat a very wealthy man.. Gerry's similar dreams he can continue from his prison cell utlising all his devout belief in God (GM)


Mr McCann also gave details of how money from the fund will be spent. He said: “There will be significant legal expenses as a legal team has come in to advise us.

“That has lifted a great burden from our shoulders. And we will fund the website which is a great vehicle for information regarding Madeleine’s disappearance.”

Gerry said the family had taken advice and had decided not to hire a private detective.

He added: “The thrust of the investigation will be that being run by the Portuguese with the assistance of the British police.

“Our family strongly believe that somebody in the public holds a piece of information. That is why we have campaigned so vigorously to make sure her disappearance is publicised as much as possible.”

Gerry went on: “We don’t know if Madeleine is in Portugal. We have to consider the possibility she has crossed borders. We are spreading the net far and wide.

“We are hopeful that the latest appeal will lead to key information, whether it comes from Portugal, or the UK or further afield. We are concentrating on Continental Europe.”

Mr McCann refused to say whether he had met Robert Murat, 33, the Briton questioned by police as a suspect.

He said: “I hope everyone treats suspects the way we would hope to be treated. That is presumed innocent until charged, arrested or convicted.”

Mr McCann revealed he visited the Leicester-based police incident room during his trip home.

atardi said...

Hi Viv,

Nice to read this article again.
Like we said yesterday:
David Payne is in big trouble. He claims he saw Madeleine being put to bed at 7.00 (while Gerry was playing tennis)

So David claims he and Kate were the last ones to see Madeleine alive!

Russell O'Brian was the only one who left the table. And stayed away for a long time.

The "lost" seven hours.

And the British police manual.

I think that "The Tapas Pact" will be broken this week.

isis said...

Clarence is not going to be sueing anyone. The tapas 7 are in for a grilling. I would like to hear what Diane webster has to say,as for the others espescially Jt and her partner i would be particularly worried at the moment.

viv said...

Hi Atardi

Yes the truth is no one actually saw Madeleine alive after 1.30 that day. No wonder David Payne is one of the first on the list they want to grill. He is a very wicked liar IMO, in seeking to cover the death of this little girl.

Remember Stalker the ex senior police officer who said the TAPAS were covering up a big secret, but the big secret was not the death of Madeleine. I believe that big secret was was Dolores of the Pink Rose, revealed on this site - their involvement with the re-development of Leicestershire hospitals from which I believe they were all due to get huge backhanders. That is what I now believe they went on that holiday for - to have meetings with Geraghty to try and stop the project being axed - an audit had just began in May 2007 and ultimately in July 2007 the project was axed due to the projected costs increasing from £700 to ver £900 million. That is the hold Gerry McCann has over this group and why they all entered a pact of silence - their lifestyles do not match their incomes - the last thing they wanted was the police prying into the affairs. As the above confirms even by 23 May there was an incident room at Leicester and that is why Gerry needed to go home - to visit it and find out what they knew and what they were investigating. Think about it - Leicester Police have been investigating this lot for almost a year now!

Anonymous said...

I have emailed George Clooney's agent to let them know that his image is been used in an illegal hate site.

viv said...

Hiya Isis

As a parent ~Diane Webster is in the same postion as Susan Healy IMO and I would not like to be caught between the devil and the deep as I believe she is. Sitting transfixed on her chair when Kate raised the supposed alarm has always stuck in my mind. Unless you knew this was a scam you just would not do that, would you. You would rush around trying to help find Maddie..

Viv x

Anonymous said...

from one anon to another bugger off to the Dragons Den.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know who Diane Webster is the mother of?

viv said...

Oh bully for you, you sick twit! I bet George Clooney just has no experience at all of anyone talking about him or his picture being on the web. What a sad life you must lead with your pathetic emails!

Penelope1 said...

I doubt Gerry would find it eay to find an English language British police manual in a sleep Portuguese resort.Could this be evidence of premeditation?

- the question of Madeline's paternity

- Madeline's hyperactivity and demanding behaviour

"We have our own family now"- Gerry

"We're not as happy without Madeline" - Kate

Personally I think the chances of premeditated murder are extremely low. However, a child psychiatrist friend tells me that parents do murder their children. My own doctor father said that published research shows that about 15% of all cot deaths are murder. He agreed with this figure. Of course, even mentioning such statistics is seen as a sin and an outrage, but it is the truth. In a journalistic investigation into cot death in Ireland a few years back, one doctor said that he has seen babies with broken arms and ribs being signed off as cot death by the GP.

Anyway - a police manual is very strange reading holiday material indeed, particularly in the light of the outcome of their holiday.

viv said...

Just popping out for half an hour will reply when I get back - oh and probably delete the sick twit that arrived:-)

Meantime hold up the garlic and the cross again and see if that works x

docmac said...

Hey Viv

Go and wake George up and tell him to come and take a gander at this ;-) I'm sure he gives a shit.

These puritans sure know how to make asses of themselves, even the one that seems to possess some degree of intelligence (from Australia). I'm sure you will be chewing your fingernails to the quick.

Penelope1 said...

Hi Docmac,

Long time no see. I hope you are well. I saw some of the vitriol on Rosie's blog - please do not take it to heart. Whoever wrote it was a total boor.

Hopefully the truth will out in the end. I was feeling pessimistic at one stage, but there are too many people involved and too many witnesses for the truth not to come out.

leigh3 said...

Hello future Mrs George Clooney,

Brilliant research and timely repeat copy from you to focus attention on the central issues surrounding current Press censorship, and the ongoing inquiry by the Police, FSS, child protection agencies - and others including journalists.

Slowly, slowly catchy monkey.
Great choice of headline story on your blog today :-)

Just flying past now. Gotta dash. See you soon.
Well done.

Best wishes from the self-appointed Matron of Honour for the future Mrs George Clooney.

P.S. Opus. Your dietary needs will be catered for at the happy celebration to come. Herrings all round!

Niki said...

Good evening/Kalispera

Just got this thought, reading your posts mentioning Diane Webster. As a grandmother or a parent; if someone cried out that their child was missing, you would not run to look for that child, but run back to your own appartment checking that your own children/grandchildren were still there!!


Wizard said...

Diane Webster,said she did not get up from the table as she thought they were up to their trick. What tricks they were I don't know.

Anonymous said...


lizzy said...

Do you think re Dianne Webster, she had overheard conversations and picked up from what she had heard that this was staged? not real?
Maybe that is why she sat there, and didn't join in the searching.As if she thought it genuine would have been very odd her just staying in her seat.I think it would be interesting to find out exactly what her reasons was for thinking it was a trick...Lizzy 19.55

viv said...

Hiya Penelope

I do not think the question of pre-meditation can be ruled out from everything we know. What we have seen after all, is the work of a very manipulative and scheming man. His refusal to admit whether or not he knows Murat makes me highly suspicious. Like he already had the culprit figured out before he even went! However, I think it is more likely he went there for business reasons and was feeling very pressurised and the rest of the family suffered for it.

As you say, parents certainly do murder their children and I think the research suggesting 15% of cot deaths are deliberate murder seems feasible looking at the convictions - although many are convicted of manslaughter. To prove murder the prosecution do not have to actually prove any elaborate planning at all. What they do need to prove is that at the time of the killing the accused actually intended to cause grievous bodily harm or death. So, when a step-father is getting angry baby sitting his girlfriends baby and picks her up and shakes her with extreme violence purely to shut her up, that is murder - there was no objective reason for the extreme violene so they jury can rightly conclude that was intentional. In any murder case the greater the degree of planning or premeditation the more serious the offence. Shipman for example, selected his victims, packed his bag with dia-morphine, deliberately arranged unnecessary home visits, murdered them and then forged their medical records to show they apparently had a heart condition that could provide an explanation for sudden death. A more cold, calculating and deliberate murderer it would be hard to find. He was also motivated by financial gain and fraud, frequently another aspect of a murderer's profile, he stole jewellery and forged a will leaving all of one victim's property to him - as we know this led to his downfall. Clever psychopaths always made a mistake. With Shipman it was also his divine belief in his own invincibility and superiority, the contemptuous way he thought he could just keep on doing it and everyone would believe him.

We do not believe you Gerry.

leigh3 said...

Big_L, my comrade. Delighted to see you again. I knew you wouldn't give up.

By the way, does anyone know who Diane Webster's favourite holiday friend was?

I recall reports that a man left the PDL resort in a hurry, and anger, on the night Maddie 'disappeared'.

I recall that the Daily Mirror's Maddie forum disappeared without warning shortly after intense questions and answers by posters on the issue of Government involvement, business connections, and a wealthy businessman who used Government contacts to ensure his name was kept out of the media, and subsequent police inquiry...much like the McCanns and others used Government and media connections to provide unprecedented, preferential treatment for the McCanns in Portugal.

All very odd. All worthy of intense questions, and answers, imo.

Anonymous said...

hi leigh ltns and i hope your well ;-) too right you can never give up looking for the truth and that,ll be the mccanns glorious downfall

leigh3 said...

Kalispera Niki, Lizzy, Wizard, and Penelope.

I remember posters on the DE often commenting on Gerry's strange choice of holiday reading material: a police manual; and his use of it's name 'No Stone Unturned' for his subsequent 'campaign to find Madeleine'.

I'm told that conmen enjoy proving their superiority by make their intentions clear to their victims, and believing the victims, enamoured of the conman, will overlook the clear clues. It's a psychotic ego trip, apparently.

Who does this remind us of? Answers on a postage stamp, please :-)

viv said...

Big L Hello and how lovely to see you. Which post are you posting on 3 As (no I dont mind)

leigh3 said...

Hi Big_L.
I'm fine, thanks; all the better for seeing you. I hope you are well too, and the smoking ban is going well. Eh! Think of the cost, canny Scot :-)

Anonymous said...

hi viv i hope your well ltns ...the what clarence mitchell didn,t want the de too print viv hope its ok .....so where all the pros i know they have a site but i won,t visit as i don,t want to be saturated by the mccanns holier than thou c_ap.

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

Thanks darling that is exactly the right phrase I have been searching for psychopathic ego trip to describe all the sick and arrogant little clues Gerry leaves.

Remember the one on his blog in May - "we even found time to fit in a haircut for the twins". How he must have smirked when writing that..

leigh3 said...

'Always the pride before the downfall'. That's what Gerry's smirks remind me of.

Nice to see you again Viv, and Big_L. I must dash again. Maybe see you all later.

Much love to you and yours.

viv said...

Hiya Big L

Forgive I dont understand what ltns means:-)

Was just interested in which one you found really useful.

Going back to it now and the reports of who the PJ want to hone in on first, it kind of all makes sense does it not! David Payne has only recently slotted into place for me but he lives and works in Leicester near to Gerry and I think could have been heavily involved in this proposed re-development scheme..hence his paranoid comments about a pact of silence and it is our business only etc...they are not just covering the death of Madeleine IMO...they are covering their shady get rich quick plans.

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

Hope to catch you later - as you say "leaving no stone unturned" the title of his bizarre holiday reading material, was another example of Gerry's very sick sense of humour.

Anonymous said...

ltns long time no see viv ;-)

Wizard said...

Hi Lizzy 19:55 Post

I think Dianne Webster thought they were joking, fooling around as Gerry was in the habit of doing this. To me this would suggest Kate’s announcement and Gerry’s reaction must have appeared unconvincing and hammed up acting. She remained at the table, the others left and then she became concerned because no one returned.

If she really did believe they were joking this gives us a rare insight into the evening.
I don’t think she knew in advance that a staging of some sort was to occur but perhaps she did hear things but got the wrong end of the stick and thought it was one of their jokes.

viv said...

Hiya Niki

Very good point - Diane Webster would indeed have rushed back to check her own grandchildren immediately not just sat there. It makes you think they even discussed it at dinner! She clearly seemed to be aware.

Then there is the question Leigh has raised again - did she have a partner who rushed off that night, angry and not wanting to be involved?

hope4truth said...

Hey BigL

Hope I havent missed you??? How's your team doing???


Anonymous said...

hi hopw long time no see hun and i hope alls well with ya ;-) my teams doing brilliant in a cup final on sunday ;-) great speaking to ya but i gotta go cya laters .

viv said...

Hi Wizard

but how could Kate screaming from the balcony for everyone on the complex to hear have left her in any doubt. she must have already had them, surely? Maybe she picked up on all those texts Gerry was sending and receiving..maybe she though OB and Gerry had spent a long time away from the table - so she knew when Kate finally screamed they have taken her something was already in the offing. Would Gerry just stand chatting to Wilkins for 15 minutes when he was supposedly ordering a meal etc? That in itself just does not make sense!

hope4truth said...

Hey all

Just reading back havent heard much about the sock Viv but I bet they find all kinds of stuff in there???

I dont think all of the Tapas knew about a cover up (if there was one) maybe she did not like Gerry and like someone sugested she thought he was messing around (he looked a grumpy git on the coach when he said he was not on holiday_
maybe she did not gell with him and could see through him???

I am off back reading x

viv said...

Hiya Hope

What with Big L, George Clooney and Docmac it is the good old days again isnt it!

hope4truth said...

Night BigL come back soon good luck in the cup x

viv said...

Hiya Hope = here is Alsabella's post - I do think this being a North European child's sock could be very significant and I also think Madeleine would have been in day clothes most likely when she died..any time after 1.30 when she was last seen (other than Payne, who is lying)

Divers returned yesterday to the Arade Dam to continue the search Marco Aragão Correia had begun earlier. They began their work at 10 AM after a previous 4-day search weeks earlier.

According to the Correio da Manhã, Aragão Correia is quoted as saying he has the help of a Portimão Contractor who will pay 50% of the search expenses. Yesterday's search, which included 6 divers brought up various pieces of rope, tied together into one sole 5.20 meter-long rope and - the biggest discovery thus far - a child's sock.

"It is a girl's sock, 17 cm from the toe to the heel and the top of the tube is the same size as the heel" describes the attorney. "Specialists from the team believe it is not a normal object in this location and in their opinion this is not the sock of a little Portuguese girl but instead from Northern Europe or England, because of the type of cloth" guarantees Aragão Correia. The sock would have been white but due to the long time it was underneath water it has turned yellowish.

Providing us a very similar report, Diário de Notícias adds that Metodo 3 will arrive today in the Algarve to work with Aragão Correia.

Niki said...

Hi Wisard/Lizzy

That was new! Have never heard or read that Mrs.Webster thought it was a trick!

Viv, Leigh3 and Penelope Hi!

Did Gerry really have this manual with him, or did he bring it after his first trip to UK?
I can not belive that he needed the book because he was going to kill his daughter(!) but maybe for other criminal purpose (charges for money-laundring, charges for drugs, charges for getting caught with all to much cash on the way in to UK....)

Talking about books, does anyone know which chapter in the Bibel Kate had underlined? Would like to read it...


lizzy said...

I agree with your Viv re Kate shouting they have taken her, would have left DW in no doubt that something was wrong, the fact that she sat there thinking they were playing games meant imo that all was not normal during that evening.She must have picked up on something or maybe overheard something. Lizzy

lizzy said...

I agree with you that Maddie was most probably killed in day clothes, as the Mccanns had to say she was wearing pyjamas to fit in with the abduction theory,as this never happened in my opinion ,she could have died anytime from the night of the 2nd - 3rd May so could well have been in day clothes. Lizzy

atardi said...


I thought that only Gerry was involved in that real-estate affair.But the whole group is. So they all must be in financial problems because of their lifestyle?

Can you please tell me what an incident room is?

lizzy said...

I'm not sure of exact place in bible but it was the book of Samuel, referring to a child killed. It was evidently creased and evident this had been read frequently. Lizzy

Anonymous said...

Now I know your stupid but to post something the DE could be being sued for just takes the biscuit.
I hope they have a field day, will foreward this article for you ahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

viv said...

Hi Niki

The above article from the DE states that a police manual was found. I believe this was in early August. The McCanns had gone to Huelva and the police searched the villa they had moved to whilst out and found this.

We know that Gerry came back to the UK on about 23 May - he could have purchased the manual then rather than actually bringing it with him, but in either case it is highly suspicious that he would have such a manual among his holiday reading. I have a law degree and so am used to law books. My ex husband was a police officer and he had specific police criminal law handbooks. They, in particular, can make an extremely dry and boring read! But it can be seen that Gerry may have been trying to second guess what the police were up to. We know from my above post he did visit the Leicester Police incident room on or about 23 May on his trip home. I think he would have been desperate to know whether they were on to him!

He visited the States in early June. There is an American book called "Leaving no stone unturned". This is quite specific about disposing of a corpse. I believe it explains that if a body is dumped in water, any DNA evidence on the body from the killer will likely be destroyed by the water, although the identify of the victim can still be found from DNA extracted from bones teeth etc. It is clearly possible he bought this book in the States in early June and as we know, later in June, it is alleged they did indeed dispose of the body from where it had been stored - most likely in a freezer.

I read that chapter from the bible not long ago but cannot remember where or exactly what it was about - I think something about killing a child and it coming back or something weird like that.

Penelope1 said...


Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I was almost ashamed to suggest it was murder but again, as my child psychiatrist friend says, "horror" is the only word she can use to describe what happens in families.

It is interesting to note that she says her typical consultation with the a neurotic mother who brings in her daughter (never the son) and says "this child is the cause of all the problems in my family". They say this in front of the child. She says she has to work around v complex family situations, and her main job is to teach children coping skills in order to handle their parents' issues. Poor little Maddie was too young to get any help. Looking at Gerry's temper and the coolness of Kate, she had an awful lot to cope with in her short life. Yes, it really could have been murder.

I think it is no co-incidence that Dr Shipman and Dr Gerry share the same profession - it galls me to see the arrogance some medics have. (And I am from a medical family, so I feel I am entitled to criticise). Some do think they are superior beings, and get off on the fact that they are responsible for life and death decisions - particularly heart surgeons. One consultant in Dublin's nickname (amongst colleagues) was "God" and he loved it.

My father, a very old-fashioned doctor, was appalled at the increasingly unethical behaviour of his fellow medics. He said ambitious young consultants (!) would perform experiemental surgery which they knew wouldn't work, when other treatments were available, effectively sacrificing the patient - just to get a paper published.

When I read the arrogant and cruel blog against Docmac a few nights ago on Rosie's blog - clearly written by a doctor - I was pretty convinced it must have been Gerry himself who wrote it.

I think we are deaing with two very sick/psycho people here, Madeline is the victim, and one who seems long forgotten by Team McCann. They should be delighted that an expensive search of the resevoir is being conducted without using their funds, but no, they are against it. Why?

So much more to this than a little girl's death....well at least Madeline is free from this dysfunctional family.

Thanks again for your reply. Its so nice to have intelligent and well-informed conversation again - like the old days of the CE forum, as you said.

Niki said...

Thanks Lizzy!
I'm not very familiar with the Bibel, but I do have one!:)

Off to bed, to do some reading!

Good night everybody!

Niki, 23.20

notdoc said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
viv said...

Hiya Lizzie

The police seem to have clear evidence that Maddie was seen independently at 1.30 on 3 May and so could not have died prior to that. She was probably seen by creche staff but did not get returned in the afternoon. Remember they give us a photo with the time on that day of 2.29. It is very easy to fake the time and date printed on a camera. You can see this pic was not taken that day because on the tennis balls pic Maddie's arm is badly burned whereas on this one not a trace of burning ...this pic was taken earlier in the week before she got badly sunburned. The burning is itself an indication of neglect. I was paranoid when my kids were little to cover them and cream them because, like her they are fair.

dolores said...

Do you recall the article in DE months ago, when either G's brother or uncle,at the villa when K was preparing the twins for bed,
said that one of the twins said''that Maddies pyjama's.''

These pyjamas only came to the knee.when you see them being held up,yet JT'S in e-fit description they are calf length.

PS.Cross and garlic at the ready.

atardi said...


Nice to see you here.

Regarding the Bilble :

What evidence can be found in Mrs McCann’s Bible?
Mrs McCann, a devout Roman Catholic, claims that police told her that a crumpled page in her Bible was evidence that she was involved in the death of her daughter. The page contained a passage from Samuel II, chapter 12, verses 15-19, which recalls how man’s child is stricken with illness after he “scorns” the Lord.
The man fasts for seven days, refusing to get up off the ground, to try to gain redemption — but eventually his child dies. Mrs McCann claims that detectives told her that damage to the page proved she had been reading it.

Penelope1 said...


Gosh, I've hit a nerve!!

I am Penelope and not Viv posing as Penelope - do I detect a hint of paranoia?

Well, I think Team McCann should be well paranoid at this stage.

Niki said...

Thank you Viv!

Realise that I'm way behind all of you in many subjects... Very glad I found this site thought! Always so many interesting posts and articles!
Keep up the good work!:)

Good night!

Wizard said...


Say Dianne Webster heard some of the planning concerning the staging of the abduction. If Gerry and co were in the habit of fooling around, playing tricks on one and other, she might have thought what she heard was part of a joke.

On the other hand, Webster is rumoured to have been on holiday with a partner. I wonder who he was? Might have course have been that he was married and told his wife he was away on business when in fact he was on holiday with Webster and just didn’t want her finding out.

There’s a lot of unanswered questions.

notdoc said...

I hint a very similar style of writing, grammar and ramblings. (Not meant as a compliment).

Viv is like the Cat in the Hat;
Bringing out thing1, thing2, thing3to agree with her.
Even the parrot posts here.

Wizard said...

I forgot to mention in my last post about Kate shouting from the balcony. I do not know whether Kate has a voice like a fog horn or not but I cannot believe she could have been heard distinctly from that distance hence the need for her to run from the apartment to the Tapis bar to tell everyone.

Niki said...

God aften Atardi!

I'm not suppose to be here! Way past bedtime...

Thank you for the information!! I don't think it is of any importance what Kate was reading in the Bibel, but I'm curious...

God natt!:)

dolores said...

It has been mentioned twice now in Portuguese press one just a few days ago,about the 8the tapas who was going to be questioned,and indeed why is he/she never named.


atardi said...

God natt Niki,

Hope to read you tomorrow.

docmac said...

Hi all

Penelope1 thanks for your thoughts much earlier. No, they do not bother me. I had copied the bible passage that some referred to. Hope they are still here to read it. It's kind of eerie!! (see below). Sorry for late reply, kinda busy right now. May be back later. Hi BigL!

the sunday mirror reported
this is the biblical text
And the LORD afflicted the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and he became sick.
16David therefore sought God on behalf of the child. And David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground.
17And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground, but he would not, nor did he eat food with them.
18On the seventh day the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, "Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spoke to him, and he did not listen to us. How then can we say to him the child is dead? He may do himself some harm."
19But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David understood that the child was dead. And David said to his servants, "Is the child dead?" They said, "He is dead."
20Then David arose from the earth and washed and anointed himself and hanged his clothes. And he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. He then went to his own house. And when he asked, they set food before him, and he ate.
21Then his servants said to him, "What is this thing that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive; but when the child died, you arose and ate food."
22He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, 'Who knows whether the LORD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?'
23But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."

Zodiac said...

Look at this link to a photo from a poster on the 3 Arguidos.


Another poster comments 'I wonder if the PJ had the "scent" one all along and Kate's been carting round it's doppleganger.

viv said...

Hi Penelope

What an interesting post.

I can see the link you are making with a neurotic mother who claims to a psychiatrist her little girl is the root cause of all the family's ills. As though little children have the capacity to be as calculatingly evil as their parents. Again, I think of the psychological term "projection" - the parent is projecting their own ill feelings onto the child.

A bit like the poster I just deleted - accusing me of being you and answering myself - it is patently clear this is what these people are doing, especially the character Rosiepops. The sheer malevolence and non-stop posting from this character, backing itself up with fantasy characters does certainly appear to be Gerry McCann. Almost 7000 posts on the Daily Express, like someone positively obsessed with vindictive, defensive behaviour - which takes the form of vicious attack. Psychopaths are known to hate, with a passion, anyone who can see through their mask of sanity as I obviously could. I recall another on there "Alroy" who used to post some really repugnant stuff. On one occasion he was launching into another poster about how fat they were (in much more abusive and verbose language) ending with the sentiment that he "wished him a coronary". I think it could reasonably be understood Gerry McCann would not like overweight people and wishing someone a coronary is a very odd and individual form of attack that could clearly be linked to a cardiologist!

One of the clearest features of psychopaths is the obsession with power and control. It is for this reason they are attracted to posts as doctors and nurses where they literally have the power of life and death over people. Nurse Allitt also springs to mind and I think I read another recent case. It is very frightening and I think those who wish to register as medical practitioners should be far more stringently checked by psychiatrists and psychologists to exclude these control freaks.

atardi said...

Hallo Docmac,

Thanks for the whole bible passage.

The last one: 23But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."

Dit betekent duidelijk afstand nemen.

Alles goed?

viv said...

Hi again Penelope

What I meant to say in my last post was that I could see how you were associating the behaviour of Kate McCann with projection onto Madeleine.

I can recall a cold chill going down my spine when Kate did that magazine interview and stated that Madeleine, aged just two years, was "jealous" of the twins and used to "shriek for attention when I breastfed them". She also said, quite bizarrely, that Madeleine used to cry for 18 hours a day..continuing to suggest this created "a strong bond between mother and daughter" ..clearly a defensive mechanism knowing there was no such strong bond at all.

I think, throughout history, we occasionally get a couple that truly are the most gruesome twosome and together they are a lethal combination. Hindley and Brady. Fred and Rose West.

Zodiac said...

Sorry made a mistake it is not uk/1/pix it is uk/i/pix or if anyone is interested in photo go to 3 A's look under the thread 'the bead and how the body was disposed' Amilio's post on page 5 has the link directly to the photo.

viv said...

Doc Hiya

Thanks for the whole passage from the Bible - together with the Police manual and the dogs locating death scent on Kate's clothing and keys at the same time, in early August, and collecting the forensic specimens in various locations, one can understand the police warning them "you are going to face a formal interview, please do not go home"

docmac said...

Hallo Atardi

Goed dankie, en jouself? Ek werk op die oomblik en kan nie nou post nie. Hopelik kan ek later weer inloer.

viv said...

So one can assume from the passage in the Bible Kates fasts and weeps no more once the child is dead - there is nothing she can do about that.

viv said...

Hey Wizard

Just been trying to read back and catch up! That is a very interesting point as to why Diane Webster's partner does not get named. To protect his wife and children - it is a possible explanation - if there was a partner!

atardi said...



That's very interesting.

So the Mc Canns had more Cuddlecats!

viv said...

Nite Nite Niki

I think you are way ahead of us sometimes! I can remember a couple of times when you in Greece have pointed out an article in UK press I did not know about:-)

It is about information sharing and all my posters help me out on here, otherwise I could never keep up. So many, like you, post the news for me as well as their views. I am always eternally grateful for that because I do not always have the time to do all the work.

Thanks xxxxxxxx

atardi said...


I hit the sent button too soon.

I have never seen that picture before.

Thank you.

viv said...

Tut tut Supertroll have you been naughty posting on my blog anon - then you go and tell Aunty Rosie all about it - what will your next name be Superbrain. Have fun emailing George:-)

supertroll said...

Viv uses a George Clooney pic as her avatar.

Re notdoc's patients, lol.

I am off now, its going to be an early night tonight because I have to write some emails.

Goodnight everyone, and see you tomorrow


12 March 2008 22:29

viv said...

Sorry just cannot resist one more from the loony site - brain o Canada, Calcite (Kate's aunt) did a search and found my DE avitar of George Clooney and GUESS WHAT I got a sex change and became the sexiest guy in the world. They are so funny! Yes guys this is what they seriously blog about:-)

calcite51 said...
The reason I'm asking about Viv/Felicity is that my boss was away today and I was being bad. Went on MSN or google or yahoo - typed in Viv/Felicity in the search bar - it came up with some of the comments he/she made on HYS.

Somehow, I managed to find a picture and it was a HIM - I'm going to try and find that picture. I feel bad. And of course, in one my notes I did mention the two names.

12 March 2008 22:19

leigh3 said...


Docmac, your accurate reply to questions gives us the literal reason why the PJ and others do think the Bible passage is important.

Atheists avert your eyes now.

This Bible passage is about vanity, arrogance, conceit. David fasts when he thinks God will grant his wish. David has servants to stroke his ego. David stops fasting when the child is dead, for David realises that his sacrifice of fasting failed to persuade God to do his bidding.

God did not give David what he wanted, so David returns to his life as usual: being served by servants. His children, his wife? Servants. Their family? Servants.

God serves truth and justice, not the commands of any one individual, imo.

This is why the Bible passage draws attention from educated PJ, and others. This is why the Vatican distanced itself from the McCanns.

The McCanns and their supporters are 'convenient Catholics'. They pray when it serves their narrow, superficial purposes. They do not live Catholicism, religion, philosophy, ethics, striving to do the right thing for the right reasons, however flawed and disappointed human life can be. They want servants. God serves all, not one, imo. Big concept, bigger than the McNasties, in my not so humble opinion.

All great religions, and all sincere atheists and agnostics, understand the idea of living beyond oneself; caring for others. Life's a team effort. Life is not Team McCann cynics, in my not so humble opinion.

xo, Darlings

viv said...

Hey Leigh darling

that was a much better interpretation of the significance of the Bible passage than my stacatto little offering.

I think you emphasise as well, just how intelligent these PJs are. They are really deep thinking detectives. The trolls just cannot connect with that, absolutely no conception. Ignorant people do ridicule what they just dont have the capacity to understand:-)


leigh3 said...

Penelope1 and Atardi.

Hi Atardi.

Penelope1: I remember your rational, inquiring posts from the DE. You father, a doctor, and my father, an engineer, believed in accountability, it seems.

Hey ho. They've got rational, compassionate daughters. Justice for Maddie, by rational, compassionate inquiry, imo.
Nice to see you again.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
viv said...

Leigh, I mean no disrespect to our own detectives at all but can you just imagine them saying they were "developing a hypothesis".

They absolutely fascinate me:-)

Penelope1 said...

Hi Viv,

Thanks for your posts. Yes, what I was trying to say was that its not the child that is mentally ill, the parent is "projecting" onto the child, and the child is also reacting to the PARENT'S mental illness/psychological issues. The child's bad behaviour is just the child reacting to the parent.

I think that Kate could well be that neurotic mother blaming the child for all her problems, including her marital ones, and may indeed have wished her dead, gone, removed. Madeline's hyeractive/attention-seeking behaviour was a reaction to Kate's issues and frustrations, already discussed.

My child psychiatrist friend said once she once screamed by parents when she told them that their child was fine. He was only misbehaving as their marriage was in trouble and he was just reacting to the tension at home. They did not want to be told that they were the problem not the child. They did not want to hear that their marraige was in trouble. In many cases, my friend says she has to be very careful with how much she tells the parents, as often the child is beaten up at home for "grassing" to the psychiatrist.

But yes, you are probably right about Gerry visiting these fora
The fact that Gerry set up his own blog shows that he likes blogging (and self-publicity). I imagine that home life chez McCann is not the most relaxed or pleasant place to be, so Gerry is possibly escaping to the PC for some peace and quiet, and being the control freak he is, is most probably checking the mood of the public on the blogs, and contributing himself.

I suspect he might well be "notdoc" - I really did hit a nerve with my earlier post.

We must be on the right scent so!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
atardi said...

Goedenavond Leigh3,

Regarding your post about :Why is the bible passage important?

One word: EXCELLENT.

I have nothing to add.

viv said...

Troll - please just go and obsess about me elsewhere - you are boring. Go and write some barmy emails perhaps?

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Interesting point about the photo, the sunburn, isn't it amazing how the little things are the things which give things away. I also agree how negligent it is to let your child burn in the sun, no need there are so many tanning lotions and child safety factors, available nowadays.

Anonymous said...

I agree with your interpretation of the significance of the specific Bible verse.Thank you for posting it

docmac said...

Viv, Leigh, Hope and anyone else here. I posted this on Alsa's site earlier. I'm pretty sure it will stir up the proverbial hornet's nest on the other side. Not that I give a shit. Notpops, notdoll, notAllah, all the notbells et al deserve a good read now and again ;-) Goodnight all, I'll not get away from here for a couple of hours yet and I'll go straight home to bed. Sleep well.

Alsabella, a little update for you regarding last night. As you know, Mum21 was cloned on your blog and I said I would alert them to this fact and that Mum better have her teeth out as if and when she saw my post she would probably spit them across the room. This is what I posted on that blog:

docmac said...
I know I am reviled in this blog, but all you cloning sceptics better have a look at Alsa's blog. I think Mum21 especially should take a look as 'she' made an indecent proposal to me.Feel free to delete this post and spit at your screens after it has been read.

11 March 2008 23:00

Despite the way it was written, the intention was of course to impart important information,
(cloning and hijacking in any form is a crime), but in their inimitable way the bloggers on that site reached the following conclusions:

1. I had threatened to physically 'push' Mum's teeth out !!?
2. I was too thick to realise that she was being cloned!????
3. I believe she fancies me!!!??
4. I am 'immature for 60' lolol!!! Where did the 60 come from?? lol!!

It is plainly obvious that these intellectual lightweights often lack even basic comprehension
skills. This was obvious even back in the DE days when articles and posts were frequently
misinterpreted by the majority of what was then known as Team McCann. The reasoning and
arguments of the majority are childlike and irrational, their general knowledge and memories
poor. The only mechanisms and strategies they seem to have to overcome these deficiencies are to belittle, provoke, attack and attempt to destroy the more intelligent individuals on fora and blogs, most often hunting as a pack and mostly written in a style demonstrating a poverty in their understanding of the English language. Inventing rumours and posting lies about various posters is of course their most abhorrent and embarrassing trait, yet they do so with a fervour that borders on hate speech. I most certainly do not feel threatened by them, either individually or as a collective, though they have convinced themselves that this is
the case.

The unkind truth is that they don't even realise how idiotic they look. Their blog has become
just an anti 'anti' chatroom with the cultish overtones of a supreme leader overseeing her subservient and sycophantic minions. I bet they lie awake in the early hours dreaming up new insults to throw at Alsa3bellies, Vile, Clawdia, Prat, Onegreycell, Docnot and others, not to mention the ever more patronising comments about the PJ and Portugal. What a sad
bunch of potato heads they are.

PS they are still confused about their stupid feedjit map and can not imagine that better tech
is available ;-). I repeat what I posted before, these people are hardly techies!

hm: "By the way, what is an IP address?
RP: "It's a set of numbers from her internet provider". lolololololol!!!!!

May be back later, am busy sweeping the prisoner's dining room :-)

Penelope1 said...


Thanks for the kind words, and thank you for your very interesting post.

I think it is fitting that Pope Benedict has drawn attention to the "Seven deadly Sins" - and added to the list. These are sins that guarantee eternal damnation - and the original list includes greed and vanity. Eh-hem!

The extended list includes abortion and pedeophilia - both crimes against children.

If the McCanns were truely Christians they would have come clean - and if they were truely Catholic they would be feeling very guilty and blaming themselves. I read on the DE forum that according to locals, they were never seen in church unti they came back from Portugal.

If they were devour Catholics,

- they would not have even considered IVF treatment let alone gone thro' it twice

- Kate would have covered her head when she was in the presence of the Pope

- they would not be greeedy and take people's money for a fund, seek publicity etc

MMMmm, just thinking as I speak, they must be well connected within the hierarchy in order to have even got near the Pope. Blair converted shortly after he stepped down - another link/beholdancy?

lizzy said...

I heard months ago that the eighth Tapas friend was a man, who allegedly left hastily that night.
There is much conjecture as to his identity, some say he is close to Government, and hence the immediate rush to help the Mccanns, and send out Goverment officials to Portugal but nobody seems to know for sure. Lizzy

leigh3 said...

Viv and Penelope.

Always a pleasure to read your words, although it is so sad that children are endangered by their parents' delusions, and the world weird web is infested with deranged adults trying to excuse the inexcusable.

Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey. Patience and perseverance is what we need now, in my most humble opinion.

I pray that the public persist. There is no hope for forgotten children if they/we do not.

Power politics and business silenced worries about the fate of children at the care home in Jersey from the 1960s to now. Adults fear censure. Why? We are adults. It is children who fear for real because they are powerless. We have power. Let's use it.

For Psychopops, Anonymouse coward serving the King Rat, it gives me great pleasure now to quote a line from the classic comedy: 'Feck Off'.

Justice for Maddie is coming. I pray it is coming for other children too.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
leigh3 said...

Oops. The classic comedy is the inimitable 'Father Ted'. Most appropriate, given the McCanns convenient Catholicism, adopted and adorned when they think it suits their purposes.

Anonymous said...

Goeienaand docmac
Amper te bang om met jou te kommunikeer sonder dat die ou cliche van 'n valse identitiet weer op die ander blogs genoem word.Klop hulself ook op die skouer as hul 'n verkragte en komiese vertaling probeer doen.Gelukkig kan die lieflike tulpie nou die vertalings doen om die ou suur paranoiede behoeftes aan daai kant te bevredig.
Hoop dit gaan goed met jou, ek tel letterlik die dae om weer die suiderkruis langs 'n hardekoolvuur te kan beleef

viv said...

Hiya again Penelope

Thanks again for a really interesting post. When you look through the host of photographs of Madeleine the McCanns supplied you can really see all her little anxieties and problems that got projected on to this poor little one can't you. Even on Christmas Day with a gift she looks solemn. When aged about two sitting alonside the twins in their bouncy cradles, sad and forlorn.

I worked for many years in divorce and was so often saddened by the terrible anguish that parents heap upon their little children. Witnessing domestic violence, bitterly fighting over residence and contact as though the children were just some pawn in a vicious game the parents need to fight out. It is intensely sad, they never, just pull themselves back and say, now how must that little one really be feeling about all of this. How in their little world do they cope with all this anger and aggression from their two principle carers? But they are so caught up in their own selfish world they never are able to stand back and see the terrible harm they do. Once a wife starts to suffer mental ill health due to physical or emotional abuse, the children suffer still more and the wife has even less insight into the terrible harm being caused, often seeking solace in alcohol or drugs.

How absolutely terrible for a child to be beaten up for grassing to the psychiatrist. No doubt the same happens if they dare to mention their abuse to social workers. I am sure that must be a thankless task sometimes in trying to find out why children are exhibiting such disturbed behaviour.

In her short little life it is difficult to imagine just how much little Madeleine must have suffered.

Now at least she is in a better place than she was.

leigh3 said...


Excellent effort. Nil result.

You get more cheesy every time. Pity. You possess a command of the English language, but you lack its true spirit.

As Shakespeare said: 'Vanity, vanity, all is vanity...'

He was talking about people like you, and your masters.

Do remember to share your cheese with King Rat. You know he likes to be served.

docmac said...

Hell, I am just leaving the room and then...

Hi Southerncross, we had a little hardekoolvuurtjie earlier. Nicely tanned meat and wors, patat in folie in die kole, mielies on the grid. Lovely. Ek sien dat Tulp nie beskikbaar is nie, want die vertaling bo is skreeusnaaks (of miskien moet sy self Babelvis gebruik). Wat op aarde is 'n 'vroee leer middel' en 'n wit bedek'? Ek wonder of hulle 'poephol' kan vertaal?

Ek moet nou gaan, geniet die aand verder.

viv said...

Hi again Penelope

I agree the McCanns have done nothing to demonstrate the behaviour of so called "devout catholics". Prior to the demise of little Maddie they never even went to church.

Then they were in the local church at PDL every day, with the cameras in tow - sickening. Everything this couple ever did has been about self-serving spin to "defend" themselves.

So thanks for that great quote from Shakespeare Leigh:

"Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.."

and Father Ted:

"Catholicism, adopted and adorned when they think it suits their purposes."

Brilliant as ever, my friends!


leigh3 said...

Night night, Viv.

I know the Bible reference sounds weird, but it is relevant to this case.

Perhaps Alsabella's blog and 3Arguidos may copy docmac's literal reminder, and my explanation.

Kate and Gerry know what they did. Mark55 on DE said that only the parents and the PJ know what happened. I agreed with him 100%. He made a gaff. I didn't :-)

Hey ho. The McCann Machine is a robot without a soul, in my view, yet 'it' strives to silence humans.

Tsk. Such tripe. Such nonsense. Lucky for them that the civilised world strives for a better world than their robotic response could ever imagine.


viv said...

Nite Leigh

The bible quote is weird but then again so are Kate and Gerry!

Mark never was particularly articulate was he:-)

I feel sure both the PJ and Leicester Police know what happened, although not precisely in relation to what they actually did to Madeleine. That will not stop Justice for her.

I wonder how the Damn of Arade story will develop! At least the McCanns got their spies in their now so they can spin it accordingly:-)

Tomorrow's another day closer to all the answers.


2345 said...


Thanks for the bible passage. Do you find it interesting that Kate, reportedly, not Gerry read it? Her need to find spiritual solace/guidance is a far more humane reaction than Gerry's.

Viv, we're of similar views regarding Gerry's psyche and I find his character more and more disturbing.

Regarding the servants in the parable, I'm wondering how many the McCanns have on board - M 3, Hogan International, fellow masons, business/political connections, keyboard monkeys in every Forum 24/7, relatives in charities, company directors, PR team; the actual number must be staggering.

viv said...

Hiya 2345

I am not sure I could describe either of their reactions as normal or humane. Whilst there may be a certain utility in not lying down crying once the child is dead, that demonstrates a lack of emotional attachment.

I could not agree more about Gerry and I think the aggressive desperation has been building very rapidly lately.

I had also pondered just how many people are now working for this oouple of child abusers. It is very weird!

irina said...

Hello everyone,

I think that McCann can’t do much in the circumstances. It does not matter for them anymore if fund will dry out by paying to Metodo or if Metodo will continue their "work". They might as well, because Mcs can’t just say to everyone: Look we are going to be charged and convicted because we actually did it. They can’t say it, so they are continuing with whatever...

Here is the thought: they know the end is eminent and now they need to provide support for twins and payment for the house. They need big clean money. From where?
1. False payments to M3
2. Newspaper pay off (not through court)

leigh3 said...

Irina, the astute, as usual, imo, our Russian friend of children, living in Ireland.

Nice to see you raising pertinent points in the lull before the storm. Ta.

2345 said...


One thing's for sure, the payroll for McCanns professional servants must be monumental. There's far more money being poured in than the Fund could ever afford. Metado 3 will stay on the books until their vile methods are no longer needed. Then there's Hogan International legally grooming M 3's 'finds' - all those who are happy to lie under oath in Court.
It's on the scale of a Mafia operation in terms of behaviour and the costs.

Those chucking money at the McCanns obviously envisage a pay back for their costly investment don't they ?

Anonymous said...

Hello All

I found myway to your site via a link on Sky forums..

I am wondering if anyone here think it strange that when pictures are shown of Maddy, excluding the eye one, why are they always of her younger? there are very few recent pics that we saw of her, which got me thinking.. as if I was searching for Maddy or if she was near me, I would not recognise her as I would be looking for a younger child, and now as time has gone on.. she would look even more different other than her eye, and even then we would almost have to be on top of her to see her eye..

this has been bugging me about the pictures, even the one with her angelic face with red dress on, she is only 2-3 years old.. surely if u have a missing child you make sure the latest pics of her would be shown more rather than the very young pics of her.... or am I just mad thinking this lol

Anonymous said...

I thought this right from the start, i.e., that the conflicting stories of the Tapas Nine and the supposed "checking", etc, hold the key to solving the Madeleine mystery. I'm not sure what happened to Madeleine - none of us are - but one thing I AM sure of is that pieces to this puzzle are missing.

What are they??