11 Mar 2008

JERSEY SOCIAL WORKER SACKED 2007 FOR DARING TO SPEAK OUT - VICTIMS INTIMIDATED

Hi All, Leigh drew my attention to the article from The Times which catalogues a massive attempt to pervert the course of justice and frustrate this enquiry by a number of guilty parties and even the unfair dismissal in 2007 of a social worker who attempted to speak out - I hope he wins his case! - to anyone who says this is not what the McCanns and their entourage are capable of, or about, read on...Some months back we heard that Interpol were investigating so called "sightings" of Madeleine. As in this case, I believe there will have to be separate police enquiries into the McCanns activities to pervert the course of justice but the focus initially, again, as here, will remain on the primary offences. I both cases things on likely to rumble on for years..Note also smearing activities of the press...now does this remind us of the vile campaign against Portuguese Police!

Viv x

Viv x
From Times Online
March 10, 2008
Cabal of leading Jersey figures is trying to wreck abuse inquiry, police say
David Brown
Corrupt police officers, politicians and a leading businessman are attempting to discredit the investigation into child abuse at a Jersey care home, the island’s police said today.
Search teams are attempting to break into a second underground chamber at the Haut de la Garenne home where former residents said that they were tortured and sexually abused from the 1960s to 1986.
States of Jersey Police said that at least one of its former officers has made threats against those co-operating with the inquiry. It was also investigating claims that victims were being threatened by former child care staff.
The revelations will strengthen demands for Jack Straw, the Justice Secretary, to send independent prosecutors and judges to the island to handle court cases arising from the inquiry.
A spokeswoman for Jersey Police said today: “A small number of police officers have left the force in various circumstances after being accused of activities which could be described as corrupt.
“They, and associates of theirs, including a local businessman and a small number of politicians, have conducted a high profile campaign aimed at discrediting officers involved in their cases.
“This has included sending a large number of letters including a threat to damage the home and vehicle of one of the officers concerned.
“Following the public announcement of this inquiry a politician connected with the child abuse debate was approached by at least one of these former officers and warned not to trust or co-operate with the officers leading the inquiry.”
The spokeswoman said that that no current minister was involved and that the investigation has received the full support of Senator Frank Walker, the Chief Minister,and Wendy Kennard, the Home Affairs Minister.
Jersey Police said that it had been sent letters and e-mails from a number of national newspapers which attempted to smear the leaders of the inquiry. The author was a sister of one of the associates of the former officers.
“We would emphasise that there is at present no evidence to suggest that these officers were involved in any so called ‘cover up’ of former offences of the type being investigated,” said the spokeswoman.
“The focus of the inquiry team remains the detection of people who have committed offences against


“Should there be evidence of criminal offences in connection with a failure to deal with previous matters, then those will be investigated following the priority task of bringing suspects for abuse to justice.”
South Yorkshire Police is conducting a separate inquiry into decision-making within the States of Jersey force. It could lead to internal disciplinary measures against officers who breached rules.
More than 160 people have come forward to say that they were abused in secret underground rooms at Haut de la Garenne. Former residents have also told police that abuse took place on sailing trips and children were forced to watch others being abused.
Spots of human blood, a pair of shackles and a large concrete bath were discovered in a secret underground chamber last month. A piece of a child’s skull and possible fragments of human bone have been found buried in a pit in another wing of the 150-year-old building.
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Lenny Harper, Jersey’s Deputy Chief Officer, said that detectives were concerned that one incident could have led to the death of a child.
“We can’t say that a person definitely died but if you look at it you have to think there is a strong possibility that the person died,” he said. “That followed by the fact that this person was never seen again.”
Investigators have already charged one former warden with child abuse and expect to arrest two further people in Jersey and one in the UK mainland within the next fortnight.
Meanwhile, the social worker who exposed alleged abusive childcare practices on Jersey is today expected to tell an employment tribunal how youngsters were left in solitary confinement.
Simon Bellwood said that he tried to change a controversial disciplinary system at one of Jersey’s care homes, known as “Grand Prix” where children in the “pits” were kept in isolation.
Mr Bellwood headed the Greenfields residential unit until 2007 before he was sacked. He claims that when he confronted his bosses they told him not to question authority and he later lost his job.
It is also claimed that the practice was criticised in a report into Jersey’s care system as early as 2001 but it remained in use for a number of years.
The States of Jersey, Mr Bellwood’s employers, deny all the claims.

149 comments:

Atardi said...

Goodmorning Viv,

Seems like the investigation is going into the right direction.

Daily Mail:

Madeleine: Portuguese police could spend two months in Britain gathering 'ammunition' to interview McCanns
Last updated at 09:35am on 11th March 2008

Comments Comments
madeleine mccann everton shirt

Madeleine has been missing since May 3, 2007
Portuguese police say they are ready to spend more than two months in Britain to try to unravel the Madeleine McCann mystery, gathering as much "ammunition" as they can before they re-interview Kate and Gerry McCann.

They hope to wrap up the interrogations within a week.

But they are packing their bags in anticipation of a much longer stay and plan to quiz Madeleine McCann's parents as well as the seven holiday friends who were eating tapas with them when the youngster disappeared, Portuguese daily 24 horas reported today.

"Madeleine's parents will be the last to face questioning because we want to have as much ammunition as possible in terms of forensic evidence and other witness statements," the paper quoted a police insider as saying.

British police have already met counterparts in Portugal to plan the new interviews.

A source told the paper: "The McCanns and their friends live in different parts of Britain and they will all be questioned in their respective areas of residence.

"This is why we've had to coordinate everything with the UK police, so we're able to unite and and hear as quickly as possible all the people mentioned in the formal interview requests.

Read more...

* Frogmen resume search of reservoir where lawyer claims Madeleine McCann's body was dumped

Scroll down for more ...
Gerry and Kate McCann

Portuguese police want to gather 'ammunition' before interviewing Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann, official suspects in her disappearance

"We want to resolve everything in a week.

"But if things don't go well, we can stay in Britain for more than two months."

It was previously thought Portuguese police would quiz only David Payne, Jane Tanner and her partner Russell O'Brien before deciding whether to requestion other members of the Tapas Nine.

Algarve detectives believe the trio may hold the key to the Madeleine McCann mystery.

But Portuguese newspaper reports today suggested every member of the holiday group would be quizzed.

The police insider told 24 horas: "We've specified who we'd like interviewed, on what days and at what time.

"Madeleine's parents will be the last to face questioning because we want to have as much ammunition as possible in terms of forensic evidence and other witness statements."

Detective Superintendent Stuart Prior, of Leicestershire Police, returned to Britain last week after three days of meetings with counterparts in Portugal about how fresh interviews would be conducted.

Leicestershire Police said Det Supt Prior flew to Portugal to discuss the issue of mutual legal assistance, the process whereby evidence is gathered in one country to help an investigation in another.

The Leicestershire force covers the town of Rothley where GP Kate and heart specialist Gerry, both 39, live with Madeleine's twin siblings Sean and Amelie, three.

The Portuguese police team, led by chief coordinator Paulo Rebelo, is expected to arrive in the UK in the next fortnight.

The interviews with the Tapas Nine are being seen as a last-gasp attempt by investigators to crack the case.

Portuguese police have privately pointed to inconsistencies in some of the Tapas Nine's original statements.

Attention has focussed on Jane Tanner's claim she saw a man carrying a girl from the McCanns' ground floor apartment at about 9.15pm the night she disappeared - when another witness says he was outside the flat at the same time but did not see her or the mystery man.

Dr Payne, a 41-year-old cardiovascular researcher from Leicester, was the last person outside the McCann family to see Madeleine at the Ocean Club resort on May 3. Gerry asked him to check on his wife and children while he having a tennis lesson at about 6.30pm.

Dr O'Brien, 36, from Exeter, was away from the rest of the group for up to 45 minutes between 9.30pm until 10.15pm while he tended to his own child who was being sick in his apartment.

He told police he had changed her bedlinen, but staff at the Ocean Club deny any change of sheets was requested.

The trio have denied previous press reports they were intending changing their original police statements.

Earlier reports Portuguese police were intending to make them official suspects alongside Madeleine's parents and expat Robet Murat, have also failed to materialise.

The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell says the Tapas Nine are keen to help police understand their original statements and want the re-interviewing to take place as soon as possible.

2345 said...

Viv,

Thanks for interesting articles. I'm trying to catch up - no power here yesterday due to storms. Hope everyone is o.k. - no damage to property or such like.

The Jersey case is timely in so many respects. I read press articles - DE's headline was "corrupt ex Police" - blatantly designed draw attention away from officials/social workers who were presented with and totally ignored the report of the horrendous treament of children behind closed doors.

Eddie Keela & the Police are doing sterling work in Jersey, with positive finds, a repeat performance of expertize in Maddie's case. Not a coincidence that those responsible for the cover up in Jersey weren't mentioned in the headline.

Atardi - Interesting articles - is reservoir search reported from team McCann or is it a police operation ?

Reservoir PR alongside the find of Mari in water is not a coincidence.

2345 said...

Shannon - Coverage "The One Show"
BBC 7.00 p.m. last evening:

Included live interview with Shannon's mother ... heart rending .. too grief stricken to talk by the end.

Guests discussed the appalling difference between media coverage of Shannon and Madeleine. Newspaper sales was one acknowledged factor - lengthy discussions about class differences. Definitely not 'pro McCann'; commentators pointed out that it's wrong to assume 'middle class' parents are not responsible.

It was good to see open and honest public debate on BBC prime time viewing clearly without the usual interference of CM.

Jersey Case;

Police are opening up a second chamber today for examination with sniffer dogs, presumably Eddie & Keela.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Interesting article, interesting too that people may believe they have been successful in covering things up, but they do have a habit of being uncovered, as this case shows.I think the public may get a surprise when the interviews take place with the Tapas friends and Mccanns by the Police,as this case has been a recent example of such a cover up, by our media and Team Mccann.Had a read on the web site of the Pro's, quite shocking reading really, they clearly dislike intelligent view points, as the people they slate the most are yourself 2345 and Leigh,Docmac, Alsabella, won't read there again, was curious to see what was said there, but nothing of any consequence.Am on my lunch so will come back tonight.Lizzy 13.20

felicity said...

Hi Atardi

What fantastic news - thanks. It is the most postitive I have heard for weeks and demonstrates the determination to prosecute the McCanns. I had not previously realised the significance of David Payne's evidence, claiming he saw Madeleine alive at 6.30 pm because we have had so many conflicting reports but it would now seem they are saying Gerry was in fact playing tennis, not achilles injury. If Mr Payne is lying about this he is in very serious trouble. Again, it does sound very contrived - that Gerry involves others in this way, claiming that Madeleine was still alive at this stage. I doubt that she was.

Hiya 2345 - I missed you last night and have been having a lot of net problems myself. The weather is calm and sunny again now, but here in the Midlands, fortunately, never got that bad, although we had fair bit rain and gusts of wind.

I read an article about Keela going back to 2005 it was particularly interesting in relation to the McCanns. It said that this dog is particularly called in when crime scenes have been scrupulously cleaned because this dog can find blood even in areas that have been cleaned and also in clothing even when it has been washed. This does explain the reason for the deployment of these specialist dogs. I recall the GNR officers commenting how immaculate the apartment was - you would not have even thought there were children there at all!

I do wish I had seen the One Show last night - it sounds like a really good piece of journalism highlighting a serious issue - that child abuse has no class barriers and all children are equal. How perverse that the one that got such publicity...


Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

Now what a relaxing way to spend your lunchbreak!

The only reason to visit the Pros site is to find out who or what is bothering them the most! Otherwise I agree, it is an inconsequential, sickening and quite boring read! Luke is very flattered that they think he is Leigh3 ...he says "I wish I could write stuff like that"!

The case in Jersey is great news in freely pointing out that attempted cover ups and attempts to intimidate witnesses will be freely admitted and reported. Watch out McCanns!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

By the way Nanday my apparent little downloaded baby is sitting on my shoulder making kissing sounds at me and saying hello!

Viv x

eurekamano said...

Hi all, so it's reported that the PJ are prepared to stay in the UK for a couple of months if necessary, and with full cooperation from the UK police. Seems somebody's had their chips then.
Tapas and chips anyone?
eureka 2.12pm

Zodiac said...

An interesting point Viv, Eddie and Keela are used in situations where there has been a clean up. I read the 3 Arguido's from time to time have never posted though. There is a poster who finishes his/her posts with quotes from Team McC, I always find them thought provoking here is one:

"We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else's business", says David Payne. Wonder if he still thinks that and what a silly man if he ever thought it could be the case. IMO.

Cláudia said...

Heelo, dear Viv!
How are you?
Have you noticed the recent flow of desperation? lolol Maybe the PJ is really in the UK already! :-)
Bejinhos!

2345 said...

zodiak,

"It is nobody's else business" - doesn't sit well with the unrelenting gobal PR 'defence' campaign !!!

Atardi said...

Hallo Viv and everyone,

Back from work. Just read the whole article.

Yes David Payne is in big trouble if he was the last one ,outside the Mc Canns, to see Madeleine alive.

Atardi said...

2345,

I don't think the reservoir search is reported from team Mc Cann.
It's because Lawyer Aragao received an underworld tip that Madeleine was dumped in the lake.

The Portuguese Society of Engineering and Construction is paying for the fund.

Have you been able to read this article yet?

isis said...

Been Cautioned

Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:07 pm
Posts: 319 The parents of Madeleine McCann are in discussions with ITV about appearing in a documentary about missing children.

MediaGuardian.co.uk has learnt that discussions have been held between representatives of Kate and Gerry McCann and the commercial broadcaster about a long-form documentary.

It is thought that while the film would feature the McCann's own experience, it would have a greater focus on how different countries treat missing children. The documentary would examine initiatives such as Project Amber in the US, which sees alerts posted on electronic roadside billboards as soon as a child is reported missing.

The McCanns had been in discussions with Channel 4 and independent production company Darlow Smithson, the company behind Touching the Void that is part of the IMG Group, about an observational documentary about Madeleine, but this is now not going ahead.

Clarence Mitchell, the McCann's spokesman, confirmed discussions had taken place with ITV.

"We have talked to one or two companies and have a number of proposals and we are moving forward with those proposals," he said.

"It more than likely it would be with ITV at this stage, but I am not at liberty to go into details."

Mitchell added that the McCanns were keen to highlight different initiatives that help look for missing children.

"We are looking at a long form documentary surrounding some of the wider issues Kate and Gerry want to highlight like the creation of an Amber alert system in Europe," he said.

"There is nothing like it in Europe. Each country has its own systems but they don't talk to each other.

"Kate and Gerry are keen to discuss that part of improvement with [non government organisations] and we may well do a documentary looking at that aspect."

Mitchell added that the McCanns did not want to do another film about how they felt about the disappearance of Madeleine, who vanished from a Portugese holiday apartment in May last year.

"They don't want to do anything about 'woe is us a year on'," Mitchell added. "That is what the tabloids would like but we are not following their agenda, we are following our own agenda."

He said the McCann's would not profit from any new film themselves.

An ITV spokesman declined to comment.

The McCann's have previously worked with the BBC on a controversial Panorama special.

The Panorama programme, which pulled in 5.3 million viewers in November on BBC1, was hit by controversy after its original producer David Mills walked out, claiming criticism of the media and Portugese police was toned down for the version eventually transmitted.

Last week, it was confirmed the McCanns had made formal complaints to Express Newspapers over a series of what Mitchell claimed were "wildly and grossly defamatory" articles in the group's titles' coverage of Madeleine and were considering taking legal action.

They have instructed London law firm Carter Ruck, which specialises in high profile libel cases, to push for a settlement.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/mar/1 ... mccann.itv

atardi said...

Zodiac,

We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else's business", says David Payne.

So David Payne is convinced that their pact is much more worth dan Madeleine's life. This is so cruel.

2345 said...

Felicity,

The decision to sack the Social Worker in the Jersey case must have been 'high level'. Let's hope Social Services concerns in Maddie's case aren't subject to the same pressure.

It stands to readon that the British Police would definitely have ensured Social Services had exactly the same alarming forensic information which they handed to BBC for publish broadcast. The Police were legally obliged to notify Social Services as a matter of course.

felicity said...

Hiya Zodiac

What a sickening comment from David Payne - "we have a pact, it our business and no one else's". Does he not have the intellect to realise in a missing child investigation, it is the Police's business! It reminds of Mandz comments "well obviously the McCanns dont need to answer questions about their personal life". What a staggering attitude - do they not have the wit to realise that when parents are being investigated for child homicide every single aspect of their lives is put under the microscope. The McCanns will or have been investigated right throughout their life history, to analyse their behaviour and character. I think their propensity to drink very heavily will certainly be relevant and also Gerry following Kate to New Zealand and Canada. I understand Mandz is not the sharpest tool in the box, but Mr Payne really ought to know better. When you think about it, this again would seem to point to Kate as being the likely killer. She is abused by a selfish and aggressive husband, she has or has developed serious mental health problems, she lost it with Madeleine. The Tapas felt sympathy with her. If it was purely a question of Gerry being both a wife and child beater I do not think they would felt such sympathy and need for a cover up. Leastways this is the only way, currently I can think of a reason why they would pervert the course of justice and obstruct this enquiry in such a serious way, leaving themselves wide open to a Maxine Carr type spell in jail.

Hiya Claudia

looooool - yes those lovely PJs may already be here - if they have to stay for a couple of months they will be very cold! Poor things..but I think they will find it worth the trouble!

Reading rest..

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Atardi

I think it is more a question of David Payne being in big trouble if he did NOT see Madeleine alive at 6.30. Remember also Mat Oldfield says he saw the children at 9.30, but then not sure if he saw Madeleine. Clearly there has been an attempt by the McCanns to use their friends to state they saw Madeleine alive at various stages and then seen carted off by Jane Tanner - it is a very serious criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and they are looking at prison - big time~! Not to mention OB being missing in between 9.30 and 10.15 - right when the McCanns claim she was being "abducted"~~~~~~~~~!They place a very strained interpretation on the word "abduction"!!

Viv x

felicity said...

Re Damn of Arade search being paid for by Portuguese business.

I do not think it is any coincidence this search is pressing ahead so urgently at this time. The PJ may lack the resources to conduct this and are being assisted in this way. I think it is a very likely place the McCanns would have dumped Madeleine sufficient for him to be confident enough to say "well find the body and prove we killed her". A shocking comment for a concerned parent..Also I think it is highly significant that in spite of it being so obvious Madeleine died in that apartment the McCanns continue to insist they are looking for a live Madeleine and therefore will not contribute a penny towards this search. Normal parents would want her body recovered and would think this was money far better spent than on the useless Retardos whose claims about being on the tail of so called abductors would clearly have signed her death warrant. I think we need to prepare ourselves for Madeleine being found here.

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Isis

Thanks very much for the interesting, although extremely annoying article.

Dating back to June last year when Gerry McCann was in America he was stating he wanted to highlight the wider political issues surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine - in short he had already written her off. Of late, as we know, Clarence has been repeatedly stating they want to sell themselves talking about the lack of a US style amber alert system in Europe but clearly no broadcasters wanted to pay them for this. He makes me laugh they way he says they dont want to talk about Madeleine's case - bet they dont!

If ITV are going to pay them for this, all I can say is SHAME ON THEM for handing money to these two and giving them a platform to ocntinue their sickening spin.

I recall in October the McCanns announced how relieved they were that Dr Rebelo took over from Dr Amaral, claiming the focus would be back on their "abduction theory". I wonder if they are still saying that now, given that Dr Rebelo is coming here himself within the next few weeks with his team and is prepared to spend up to two months here, to nail them! Did they really think the second most senior police officer in Portugal would be that stupid!

Viv x


Viv x

felicity said...

Hi 2345

As you say Social Services would have had full discussions with the police in relation to the McCann. They operate a multi-agency child protection procedure where information from all interested parties are shared about children where there are child protection concerns. This typically includes, police, probation, schools, nurseries, GPs, hospital staff who examine children etc.

I have already said I think it was very wrong not to remove the twins at an early stage.


Viv x

Niki said...

Hi Viv and everybody! Have not been able to read much on here lately, so not quite sure what you are talking about... Had a look at the Guardian article today, and started to read some older articles. Found this one interesting:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/sep/07/ukcrime.madeleinemccann1


Some of it says:

It was while Mr McCann was away from the table, having run into an acquaintance outside his apartment, that Jane Tanner, a third friend, saw a man walking in the direction away from the McCann apartment wearing pink pyjamas, as Madeleine was
----

Gerry McCann's brother John said today that the accidental death theory would have been impossible in practice.

"It doesn't make sense if you look at the timelines on the night," he said. "They were there with other people, they had children to put to bed - it's not feasible. Everybody who knows Gerry and Kate know that to implicate them is ridiculous."

It would seem, however, that the police focus has turned increasingly to the period between 6pm and 8.30pm when the couple were alone with their children.

----

"A body is not in very good condition 25 days after death, especially in a Portuguese climate," said Derrick Pounder, a professor of forensic medicine at the University of Dundee. "The decomposition smell would be obnoxious, lingering and very difficult to get rid of." The only way to stop decomposition, he said, would be to put it in a freezer or to use specialist chemicals which would be very difficult to obtain.
-----

Niki, 20.18

2345 said...

Niki,

TTW4's thread - 3 A's. Gerry's friend Geraghty a fellow Mason has a village on the outskirts of Luz with a large chest freezer.

Rosiepops said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Niki said...

OOOOppps!!! The first quote should be:

It was while Mr McCann was away from the table, having run into an acquaintance outside his apartment, that Jane Tanner, a third friend, saw a man walking in the direction away from the McCann apartment carrying a child over his shoulder wearing pink pyjamas, as Madeleine was.

Tried to highlighten that the man carried the child over his shoulder, and ended up with the sentence that the man was wearing pink pj!!!!!!
(No, I don't see pink elephants!!!)
Sorry!!!
Niki

dolores said...

Hi Vi,
This is the only paper telling of their rage again.

McCanns furious as divers begin second search for Madeleine's body.

11/03/2008




Kate and Gerry McCann reacted with fury yesterday after divers began a second search of a reservoir for Madeleine's body.
The couple told friends the search - funded by a Portuguese lawyer who they claim is a "fantasist" seeking publicity - is a distraction from the hunt.
Marcos Aragao Correia claims crime contacts told him she was killed and left in the lake two days after going missing.
Correia spent thousands of pounds on a previous search but found nothing.

But a McCann source said: "There's no evidence Madeleine is in that reservoir.
They believe she is alive and are concentrating on finding her."

atardi said...

Viv,

I don't think David Payne was there at 6.30. Remember what he said "We have a pact". So there is someone else "thinking" for him. He just has to repeat what he heard. But it will be very difficult during the police interview.

If someone prefers to protect child neglecters instead of speaking the truth then it's up to them. I don't think my friends would do this for me.

hope4truth said...

Hello ALL

Atardi

I hope my freinds would not cover for me I am careful about frendships and trust them all but if they were to cover for a missing child they would not be the kind of people I would want to know...

Hope you had a good day x

Zodiac said...

There is no evidence Madeleine is in that reservoir. There is no evidence of an abductor, yet they choose to believe that. Wonder why?

atardi said...

Niki,

I've missed you first posts last days.

Pink (hallo Dolores) is is such a important colour in this case. I was reading some old articles too and found this about a pink and white pyjama and more.

Just to refresh our minds.

From Times Online
September 21, 2007
Madeleine McCann: the key questions
David Brown and Steve Bird examine the puzzles and mysteries at the heart of the four month investigation
Kate McCann looks at an inflatable poster of missing daughter Madeleine

(Steve Parsons/PA)

Madeleine McCann went missing in Praia da Luz in Portugal
Why are the “Tapas 9” key to solving the Madeleine mystery?
Kate and Gerry McCann were dining with seven British friends at a tapas restaurant in the Ocean Club resort when Madeleine was reported missing. The friends are crucial witnesses but have said very little publicly. Police sources have claimed there are inconsistencies in their statements to officers. The friends are Matthew and Rachael Oldfield, Russell O’Brien and his partner Jane Tanner and David and Fiona Payne and her mother Dianne Webster.
Did any of them see anyone taking Madeleine?
Jane Tanner told police that she saw a man walking away from the McCanns’ apartment at 9.15pm. Sources close to the couple have previously said that the man had a child wrapped in the blanket and was walking in a southerly direction. However, the London Evening Standard reported yesterday that Ms Tanner had seen man carrying a girl dressed in Madeleine’s distinctive pink-and-white pyjamas walking eastwards, towards the house of the official suspect Robert Murat, 33.
Do police believe this was a man abducting Madeleine?
Detectives refused to publicise the sighting for three weeks. Another witness, Jeremy Wilkins, is reported to have told police that he was in the area talking to Mr McCann and did not see the mystery man.
Did anyone else in the Tapas 9 notice anything strange?
Matthew Oldfield said he had checked on the McCanns’ apartment at 9.30pm. A source close to the McCanns had said he did not look into the bedroom where Madeleine was sleeping with the two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie. But the Evening Standard report claimed he saw the twins but did not have a view of Madeleine’s bed.
Was there anything strange about the room after Madeleine disappeared?
Mrs McCann was sure Madeleine had been abducted because the bedroom window was open and the security shutter was forced open, a source close to the family has insisted. Tests on the shutter showed no sign of forced entry. However, another friend claimed yesterday that the shutter had been left open.
When will the Portuguese courts decide what to do in the Madeleine case?
Pedro Daniel dos Anjos Frias, a criminal instructional judge in Portimão, has decided that there is no need for the McCanns to be reinterviewed at this point, hence the prosecutor’s statement last night. The threat of them having to return to the Algarve in the near future has been lifted. The judge must complete his rulings by today on a variety of issues. It is believed that he has already authorised the use of Mrs McCann’s diaries as evidence.
Could the couple still be charged soon?
Unlikely. LuÍs Armando Bilro Verão, the lead public prosecutor, must now decide if there is sufficient evidence to bring charges against them, if he needs to request the PolÍcia Judiciária to carry out further investigations or if the case against them should be dropped.
Why is it all taking so long?
Portuguese detectives are still waiting for the results of tests on samples being carried out by the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham. They are also believed to want to carry out further searches in the Algarve and possibly at the McCanns’ home.
So how long will the McCanns have to wait?
The couple can remain as arguidos, or official suspects, for eight months before the Portuguese police have to apply for a four-month extension. After this time they automatically cease to be suspects, but there is no requirement for the prosecutor to clear them formally.
Robert Murat, a British self-employed property consultant on the Algarve and the only other official suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, has been an arguido for four months.
Why has there been so much confusion?
Portugal’s strict laws of judicial secrecy mean that nobody involved in a criminal investigation is allowed to reveal any of the evidence in the case. However, Portuguese police sources are regularly quoted giving incriminating details about the McCanns’ role in their daughter’s disappearance. Friends of the couple have increasingly been attempting to challenge these reports with their own interpretation of events. Both sides are actually breaking the law and could face up to two years in jail.
Who is who in Team McCann
Clarence Mitchell
Former BBC journalist appointed on Monday as Kate and Gerry McCann’s official spokesman. Represented them in May and June after being sent to Praia da Luz by the Foreign and Commonwealth Offic
Michael Caplan, QC
One of few solicitors to be appointed QC, expert in extradition and international criminal law. Prevented extradition to Spain of former Chilean president General Augusto Pinochet
Angus McBride
Leading criminal solicitor with expertise in dealing with media and protecting reputation of individuals subject to media or criminal investigation
Carlos Pinto de Abreu
One of Portugal’s best-known lawyers with reputation for taking on controversial cases. Lodged McCanns’ libel action against Portuguese newspaper which said they were police suspects
Esther McVey
Former GMTV presenter and Conservative parliamentary candidate, trustee and spokeswoman for Madeleine Fund. Has known Mrs McCann since they did their A levels together
Father Haynes Hubbard
Anglican priest at church of Nossa Senhora da Luz (Our Lady of the Light) in Praia da Luz and his wife, Susan, have become close friends and confidants of McCanns
Calum MacRae
18-year-old internet expert runs Find Madeleine website which has attracted more than 400,000 unique users and helped to raise more than £1 million in donations for campaign
Philomena McCann
Mr McCann’s sister, a headteacher, has been key family member to publicise hunt for Madeleine and to defend her parents
Trish and Sandy Cameron
Mr McCann’s sister and brother-in-law have been frequent visitors to the couple in Praia da Luz and Rothley. About 30 other relatives and friends also visited them in Praia da Luz

atardi said...

Goedenavond Hope4truth,

Had a hectic but nice day. Still working and reading.

My friends love my children so I wouldn't have the guts to ask them to cover something up for me. That's why I think that this is not about friendship but about something else.

Have you hada nice day?

hope4truth said...

Hi Atardi

Exactly my friends would not want to hide anything if my child went missing and if I asked them to cover up an accident they would tell me not to be stupid and I would not be able to live with the guilt if I did.

If she was not abducted I dont think they all know but have doubts.

Had a lovely day it has been windy here today worse than yesterday but so far the fence is still up LOL xxx

leigh3 said...

Hi Viv,

You're right on the case again, imo. As you said earlier, it is the sub text of The Times article which is most interesting, and relevant to the bigger issue of missing or abused children.

Cover ups and intimidation of witnesses WILL be reported on at the appropriate time. Clarry the clown will well understand the sub text of 'The One' show on BBC, The Times article, and other media pieces.

The media: a ruthless game. The McCann mechanics: amateurs.

Hi to Luke, by the way. Saw earlier compliment from him. Luke: you will write in your own way, and your mother will be most proud of you.

Best wishes all.
Justice is coming, in time, IF we persevere.

leigh3 said...

P.S. There is no evidence of an abduction in the case of Madeleine Beth McCann, except the unfounded claims made by her parents, their friends, family, supporters, and paid servants.

British Police have assisted the Portuguese Police, Interpol, FSS, and child protection agencies who all continue to view the parents (and others) as prime suspects in the 'disappearance' of Madeleine Beth McCann, aged 3, left 'alone' in a foreign hotel room with twin brother and sister, aged 2.

Facts not fiction created by vested interests will serve Justice for Maddie, and every child, imo.

However long it takes, however upsetting or inconvenient adults may find this to be.

atardi said...

Hallo Hope4truth,

We had rain the whole day here. Tomorrow it will be storming here if the prognoses are right.

If you have friends who are willing to cover things up,especially the disappearance of your child, Than you can be sure that they are NOT your friends.

atardi said...

Zodiac,

Regarding your last post.


The parents are furious that the lake is being searched. (see Dolores last post) According to hln.be Kate and Jerry still believe that Madeleine is alive. I will try to translate the article from hln.be

felicity said...

Hiya guys

Firstly, who left the door open and let that foul smell creep in, hope it banged its head as it flounced out again! Never said anything libellous or racist eh!

Nicki - great to see you back again! I have to agree with John McCann - the "accidental death theory" is not feasible at all. Cadaver dog scented her in that apartment and in order to be able to do so the corpse has to be in place for at least two hours to start exuding those distinctive chemical odours the dog picks up on. As we know, Kate announced Maddie had gone by 10 pm. So Madeleine must have died by 8 pm at the latest - in other words when the McCanns were still in the apartment. On their own admission on Panorama they did not arrive at The Tapas until 8.40 with the Paynes saying they did not arrive until 8.58. Additionally, it would simply not have been possible or Madeleine to have died and her body removed in such a short time scale. The Police know also, the flat was thoroughly cleaned by the McCanns and Kate turned the cleaner away! There were reports even the curtains got cleaned - remember Rosie's laughable arguments about that on the DE - saying washing curtains was just the sort of thing she did on holiday! As you say, the police timeline for Madeleine's death is in between 6.30 and 8.30 and if, as appears to be the case David Payne is telling lies and he did not see Maddie alive at 6.30 she could clearly have died before this. There seem to be scant details of any sightings that afternoon - remember Wilkins wife in the Guardian - I did not see Madeleine in the sea of blond little girls…

There are only two feasible explanations for the body being in relatively good condition to move in the hire car, 25 days after death, one it has been kept in a deep freeze and as I think, 2345 points out Geraghty a business friend of Gerry's lives on th outskirts of PDL. One could assume he may well have a freezer. I don’t know that for a fact. This man was involved in a proposed large re-development contract of Leicestershire hospitals but following an audit of the proposed budget, oddly enough in between May and July 2007 the authority binned the proposal which had been planned for some years - due to greed - a proposed 200M increase on the original budget for the project taking it to over £200M. Remember that video of Gerry being so angry in the holiday van video - because he was working it would seem trying to save this project from being axed.

The other alternative is that chemicals were indeed used to preserve the body and there was a report of such chemicals blood soiled towel etc being found near a disused barn following mobile phone triangulation tracking the movement of the Tapas. It was reported police had evidence that for a date in June (which I cannot remember) Gerry had lied and was in fact some 25 km away from where he claimed to have been. The picture of Gerry on the left with the beatific grin outside the Whitehouse was taken in June. He was riding high then feeling everything was going according to plan…Contrast this with the sorrowful look when he exited Portmao police station in September, for the first time ever, looking utterly sad and dejected - but months after losing Madeleine - self pity only.

Is the quote "carrying a child over his shoulder " correct, because if so, this is another serious discrepancy in Tanner's story because the e-fit she issued clearly shows him carrying her open armed and she confirmed this in Panorama although agreeing this was an odd way to carry a child you would normally have them up on your shoulder.

Dolores darling how lovely to see you again - I was only thinking whilst out earlier I will have to send out an APB for Dolores! How is the anti-smoking drug going, my lovely? Any good?

Initially the McCanns were quite chilled and accommodating about the search of the Arade Damn weren’t they? Now they are furious! How bizarre, why would they be? I really do fear Madeleine is in here. The extensive search, I feel, is their worse nightmare - as we all know, finding Madeleine has always been the very last thing this couple wanted! People do not spend countless thousands of pounds searching where "there is no evidence", surely! How would the McCanns know anyway, when they refuse to have anything to do with it! I do feel this firm are assisting the police with a very expensive operation. Good for them. Even if it does not yield Madeleine's body, she is still worth the effort.

Atardi/Hope - What sort of friends do this couple have, who are prepared to tell such wicked lies…the sort who are quite prepared to dump their kids in bed and go drinking!


Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Atardi

I think they really are the McCanns friends, but "like-minded" friends and not the sort we would choose! Geraghty neither! I dont think he got to be a millionaire by being such a nice person somehow and really do think this was the whole purpose of Gerry's trip because he was going to get a massive backhander. Making huge pots of money is what makes Gerry happy, that is why he was laughing on the beach on Madeleine's birthday releasing all those balloons and thinking of the cash it would net him. True, I admit, I cannot stand the man..

Viv x

felicity said...

Hey ~Atardi - I love your red poppy - flipping heck if I learn how to do that, we will get George back again LOL!

Hiya Leigh

Great to hear from you again. The Times - what a good paper and always worth indulging in - I see there are some really good pieces in the law section on the Contempt of ~Court Act 1981 that have clear relevance to the McCann case and how will see the reporting of this developing in future. In a far more subtle way, as you suggest, it is all there, if you look:-)

Gerry, IMO, is a typical narcissist - full of his own invincibility and grandiose schemes. Time and time again, I would predict, this man has gone through life with some pretty bizarre plans, convinced they were going to work, only to find disaster awaits him. I think he was heavily involved with that ill-fated hospital development scheme with Geraghty..to people with his personality style, fame and money are essential and he means mega money, not a paltry £75,000 pa. His grandiose schemes in making money out of the death of his little girl will see his ultimate demise IMO for the scheming and heartless criminal that he is. He unleashed the press, and thrived on it, admitting back in June he was desperate to keep the story out there - he manipulated and he schemed and he succeeded in that. But he has reacted with typical fury when he realised he cannot have the press print just what he wants them to say and obliterate other comment, particularly on places such as this. Sending in his little army of idiots will not change that, even if he does sometimes write the script. He is an avaricious loser, in freefall towards his ultimate destiny.

Viv x

dolores said...

Hi Viv,
We have been away for a few days,visiting my brother in law in the Lake District.
I don't smoke as many cigarettes now after 11 days,I enjoy them less and less every day,I would recommend it Viv,have you been to see your doctor yet? I do hope you are well.

XX D

Maybe I am being cynical here, perhaps they are furious because to find Madeleine would mean any hope of money donated to the fund would cease.And as it promised to give any remaing money for other missing children.
M3's contract would cease,the fund
money could not continue to pay for another few months, as surely there would be a clause in the contract if she was found,they would no longer be required,and bang goes their abduction theory and nowhere left for the fund money to go. IMO.
Money,after all is the main goal in their sights,whether by sueing for it or interviews,etc., etc.,not forgetting that any injuries and what it could prove.

leigh3 said...

Gerrymandering, as in:

'Find the body and prove it.'

'Put up or shut up.'

Madeleine's eye defect was a 'good marketing ploy', despite police advice that his advertising of this distinctive trait could endanger her life.

Madeleine registered as a 'trade mark', courtesy of Gerry McCann, the father/ husband who left his wife to care for 3 infants, staff to care for 3 infants, and abandoned all of them to play tennis or go drinking with his mates.

Poor Maddie, the eldest daughter of a man who pursues riches.

How's it going Psychopops and the girl gang of Gerry's servants? Badly for you lot, I'm happy to say.

leigh3 said...

Hiya Viv,

Yes, it is all there if the public look closely.

Re: the Contempt of Court Act. That is also being debated now in serious newspapers, like The Times and Telegraph.

The Guardian is in some difficulty. A Labour sympathetic newspaper now finds itself with awkward questions about the McCanns et al, and other issues.
Yet even The Guardian (ref: Mark Lawson) has placed interesting articles and questions.

So does The Spectator (ref Matthew Parris who also writes for The Times).

Slowly, slowly catchy monkey :-)

hope4truth said...

Hey all

Homework duties again tonight so been reading in between... I am off to bed see you all tomorrow xxx

atardi said...

Leigh3,

I for one don't care about your identity as long your comments are sincere.

The reason why I'm here is because I want justice for Madeleine.

leigh3 said...

Goedanavond Atardi.

Justice for Maddie is coming, imo. I don't quite understand the reference to my identity or sincerity. It is self-evident. I'm the same now as I've always been: focused.

Best wishes to you and yours.
Leigh3

southerncross said...

Goeienaand Atardi

Goed om jou te "lees". I agree with you,whomever we are,whatever we do, we all agree on the most basic principle and that is justice for children!
Hiya viv

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

That's sounds like very positive news with the fags. I was supposed to go for a blood test and then go back to GPs and have kept putting it off like a fool. Funnily enough my parents just rang and said they are coming tomorrow and are taking me to the hospital to get the tests done and will then go back to GP. Meanwhile I have been taking aspirin and this does seem to have stopped a lot of the swelling to my ankles. Also taking other tablets he gave me but would like to try the anti nicotine drug.

I think you put that really well - it is not just the issue of the evidence of what they did to Madeleine that the body may well produce, even after all this time, but the fact it would put an end to their fund raising fantasies. The game would well and truly be up! I really hope she in in there and that they find her.

Hiya again Leigh

Marketing Maddie with that distinctive "logo" utilsing her eye defect stricly against police advice was a real red flag for me. It seemed to shout, never mind whether it will sign her death warrant, it will make us loads of money. The obvious inference just had to be drawn from that. It was all just too slick and quick! That first interview on the BBC when Gerry was floundering trying to answer Jane Hill's question, well why are you not spending the fund money on looking for Madeleine - well the fund was just a vehicle because the public wanted to give us all this money and it has enabled us to get a good team of lawyers together WHOOPS that was another serious red flag ..lawyers? Do they locate missing children then ??... he is so hopeless with his Freudian slips of what is really on his mind. Again, in that early interview Ktte was directly asked well have you been out looking for Madeleine - well, no, not as such, but we have been working really hard trying to find her - well how! These two morons did not even have the wit to go out and pretend to search for Madeleine, they were far too busy getting Kate's highlights done for the cameras and seeing how quick they could jog up the cliff with the twins dumped in nursery and planning their luxury European tour on a private jet...

Oh dear what a hideous couple!

Viv x

atardi said...

Leigh 3,

Goedenavond,

Yes Leigh,Justice for Madeleine is coming.

I was refering to posters who thought you were Luke. That's why I said as long as someone is sincere I don't care about the name.

atardi said...

Hope4truth,

Read you tomorrow".

atardi said...

southerncross,

That's the only reason why I'm here. Madeliene couldn't do this on her own
so we must do it for her.

leigh3 said...

Yes, Felicity. I think you are right, again.

Personally, I think it is sad that the public are now being made more cynical because of the McCann Machine, and events in Jersey. However, I think the public must grow up in the true sense. Personal preferences have no relevance whatsoever to the fate of children in need. Public and private ACTIONS in defence of children will make a difference to their fate, and ours, as a society, striving to be civilised, imo.

Jersey. Goa. Portugal. On and on and on, it goes. Children abandoned by adults who cared more for their own convenience and comfort than their duty to defenceless children.

Child neglect = cruelty to children, imo.

There is no reason why responsible adults who forsake their own personal interests should protect or sympathise with child neglectors, I think.

Justice for justice sake, regardless of anyone's comfort zone, imo.

Great blog today, Viv and Friends of Maddie, and other children. Well done if you don't mind me saying so.
xo

dolores said...

Viv darling,
That is good news your parents are coming to see you,they are going to take care of their baby,as most parents should. :) I am pleased the daily aspirin is helping you,I take one also.
XX D

I just had to send this from 3A'S, what a poster wrote.





I have had a change of heart.

I was a staunch supporter of the McCanns, probably their biggest fan. I completely believed in their innocence but I suddenly realised they are guilty, guilty of at least child neglect, possibly guilty of much more and much worse atrocities.

I have a peace inside me now, now I know the truth, no longer will I be brainwashed. I have upset many people on my road to discovery and I apologise to all those amazing people, I should have listened to you all along.

I ask all McCann supporters to follow my lead and rethink your position, I nearly got caught up in a cult, it's quite scary looking how crazy I got. Some people will still think I am crazy, a split personality maybe, but I dont give a damn. I believed in miracles once, not any more.

Justice for Madeleine.

Stacy

felicity said...

Nite Hope

See you tomorrow!

Luv Viv x

Hiya Atardi

I am sure no one is taking these ridiculous assertions made by the McScams seriously. Leigh was on the Daily Express several months ago when I arrived back in about October. It is a bit like saying I just downloaded my parrot - absurd and offensive.

My son Luke actually has learning disabilities anyway. I think that was one of the things that originally made me so angry about the McCanns ..the implication that she was in some way disabled and not good enough for them.

Viv x

southerncross said...

Atardi
Wat 'n mooi gedagte.Ek hoop dit gaan goed met jou, en jou papawer-prentje is pragtig. Laat my dink aan Jaques Brel se Marike

leigh3 said...

Dolores of the pink rose.

I'm glad to hear about 'Stacy', and believe it takes great courage to admit mistakes, and make amends. I hope 'Stacy' is given the credit s/he is due for having the humility to communicate sincere thoughts and feelings.

Justice for Maddie, however long it takes, however much humility is required along the way.

If you come across 'Stacy' again, I hope you will pass on best wishes and respect from people like me who admire those who change their minds when the facts change.

xo

leigh3 said...

Hiya Felicity,

Just saw your last post. I am honoured to be associated with your son Luke in the minds of people who read my words, and your comments about your beloved son, and think we have something in common.

A warning for them: Luke is young, and forgiving, probably, God bless him.

See you in court, Psychopops, and Gerry's servants. Every time you disrespect the public, you earn another professional enemy; the media is ruthless, and never forgives liars.

felicity said...

Hiya Leigh

True there are many examples of child neglect, so often, sadly, emanating from the UK ..Goa!

What I think has been really repulsive and unprecedented about the McCann case is the media campaign - where we have had a paid PR adviser, internet monkies etc. persistently trying to convince us there is nothing wrong with child abuse, that the McCanns are actually "really responsible parents who just made a mistake".

Dolores - thanks so much for the post from Stacy. Like millions, she admits she succumbed to this slick campaign. Sometimes, deeply analysing your own thoughts and feelings can be uncomfortable and going so far as to publically admit you were wrong, really brave. It was a lovely post to read and refreshing to know that in spite of the spin, there are decent people out there, prepared to accept the reality, no matter how cold and brutal that reality is. Once we accept how cold and brutal some people truly are, even to their own children, we can make things safer for all children. Knowledge is the key.

Justice for Maddie!

Viv x

dolores said...

Hi dear Leigh,
I admire her honesty and the courage it must have taken to admit this.Idon't post on their blog only here.I read a few posts their are a few good articles.

Madeleine will get justice, Leigh I am sure of it, I admit I never thought she would,due to all the interference,and protection surrounding these two criminals.The truth needs to come out.

XX D

atardi said...

Viv,

I must confess. I can,t keep birds because of the feathers because I'm allergic to feathers

We had a dog named Atardi. Later on we had hamsters and rabbits. And now we have fishes. Because the kids didn't want to take care of the hamsters and rabbits. So I have to take care of the fishes too.

I love Leigh's comments and hope to read him soon.

atardi said...

Southerncross,

Ken je Jaques Brel?

felicity said...

Hiya Leigh - thanks for your kind words for Luke and I. True he cannot write like you or I but he has wonderful qualities and I adore him. Every human being has something special and wonderful about them and he is certainly no exception. We make a great team! I do not think these people even stop to think just how repugnant they are prying into people's lives and looking for some sick line of attack.

Hiya Atardi

We also have a pond full of beatiful fish and just now the frogs have joined them and there is a mass of frog spawn. I love to watch the tadpoles develop and then look for minute little frogs. Roll on the summer! I think this is also the time we will finally start to see Justice for Maddie!

Viv x

leigh3 said...

Viv and Dolores.
Justice is coming. Truth will out. We have believed in this.
Can you hear it? Can you see it?
I can.

Time tells all. Patience and perseverance; faith in the values we share. It's worth it, just as we have always believed.

'Stacy' speaks for the silent majority, in my view. Humility is so admirable, and it is a trait which the McCann Machine has seriously underestimated, I think.

The public. The Press. Together forever, whatever weaknesses or faults these two parties have; however their weakness will be exploited by cynics...in the short term.

In the long term, cynics, like the McCann Machine, are busted.

Time tells all. We'll see...

southerncross said...

Atardi,
Baie goed! Wat 'n fantastiese kunstenaar. Een van die mense wat jou siel kan wakkermaak ;)'n glimlag met 'n traan.Nes de lewe

dolores said...

Viv & all
A reminder for us.


September 2007
BRIT POLICE WATCH AND LISTEN NEXT DOOR
Exclusive by Andrew Gregory
British detectives secretly listened in as Portuguese police grilled Kate McCann over daughter Maddie's disappearance, The People can today reveal.

They hid in a room next to the interview suite at the police station to watch the mother's every response to her gruelling interrogation.

It is understood the Brit officers even fed the local cops with questions through tiny earpieces - and used body-language experts to monitor Kate's reactions.The People has discovered that Kate and husband Gerry were made official suspects after:

Local cops set up surveillance teams to monitor their movements 24 hours a day for three weeks.

Kate was hauled back in for a tough second interview after they claimed she had dramatically CHANGED her version of events.


The body-language experts compiled a secret report which is thought to suggest her demeanour indicates she has something to HIDE.
Emails and computer data are thought to have been closely examined.

The dramatic twists in the case of four-year-old Maddie come after Portuguese investigators received guidance from Britain's FBI, the Serious and Organised Crime Agency.

A dossier of covert electronic and physical evidence coupled with forensic reports led to the McCanns both being labelled suspects.

A source close to the inquiry revealed: "Following the request by the Portuguese to the British police to get involved the pace of the investigation has massively increased.
"Many of the failures made by local cops have been highlighted by the Brits and they are now working hard to find out what exactly happened to Madeleine."

The source explained: "It is common practice for those closest to a missing person to be watched closely and the McCanns are now no different.

"They, like all suspects, are being closely monitored as no stone is left unturned."

leigh3 said...

Atardi.

One last time: I am a she; a mother; and something else much feared my McCannn mechanics, and so they should fear people like me.

Some people care nothing for superficial sentiment, and manipulation. Focus on facts. That scares the bejesus out of wrongdoers. Focus on civilised customs and procedures. That defeats cynics, and manipulators.

Goodnight, Atardi. Facts, and figures. Rely on it.

leigh3 said...

Atardi.

One last time: I am a she; a mother; and something else much feared my McCannn mechanics, and so they should fear people like me.

Some people care nothing for superficial sentiment, and manipulation. Focus on facts. That scares the bejesus out of wrongdoers. Focus on civilised customs and procedures. That defeats cynics, and manipulators.

Goodnight, Atardi. Facts, and figures. Rely on it.

felicity said...

Hiya all

It has sometimes been a struggle to keep my faith in justice but it is those concerns that make us persist. There is a little girl who so much deserves all of us fighting on her behalf for what we truly believe in, justice for her and for all abused little ones. There are some very good things about the web in bringing together people who can oppose the McCann campaign for the parents, expose its insidious persistence and deny it a continuing existence. Child neglectors and abusers do not deserve a self-pitying voice unchallenged by decent people - we will keep on challenging them.

Viv x

leigh3 said...

Yes, Dolores.

Your reminder is true, all true. The McCanns and their supporters know this too, and that explains the crazy, expensive 'Find Madeleine' campaign; it's just a sophisticated tactic intended to divert public attention from the simplicity of tried and tested inquiry by the police, and others.

Thanks for reminding us, Dolores. Sometimes the spin turns peoples' heads; makes them forget the basics.

atardi said...

Leigh3,

Like you I'm also here to get justice for MADELEINE. So sorry to think you were masculine.
But it doesn't matter you and I want the same.

dolores said...

Leigh,
What you say is very true,and we must fight fire with fire,it does not not have to be the same fire.
But fire it is, as you say not to forget the basics.

XX D

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

Thanks for that great report - this investigation has clearly had every sophisticated investigative tool there is utilised against the McCanns. I especially loved the last sentence "no stone has been left unturned". It is poetic justice for the cynical Gerry McCann who coined the phrase!

Viv x

docmac said...

Hi Viv and all

Been posting on Alsabellas tonight as I got a Valentine message from Mum21. Made my first post on 'that' blog to ask her to have a look and whoosh, cluck. My post had gone before I could refresh the page. Within moments the insults began. These people are completely on a different planet. The blogs to them are just a playground that they use to spread gossip, ridicule and loathing for anyone who has not become entangled in the web of deceipt that they so fervently spin.

Never mind, the end game is nigh for them and the objects of their affection. I can't wait.

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,
I have just been mulling over why the change of emotions by the McCanns over the search of the reservoir. When lawyer Marcos Aragao Correia first started to search the reservoir the McCanns were ok with it. Now the search has restarted again they are angry – why?

The search was instigated allegedly through a underworld tip off to Mr. Correia that paedophiles had killed and dump Madeleine into the reservoir. The Mc’s now believe that M is still alive and this is why they are angry we are told.

I have mentioned before the Mc’s imo appear to second guess the emotions of parents who have lost a child through abduction hence their reactions are always slightly off. This anger fits nicely with parents whose child has been abducted and the emotions aroused by the suggestion that their child is dead. Thus the anger displayed would be over a lost of hope which is obviously what Mr Correia’s tip off suggests.

Why were they cool with it initially? Well Marcos Correia was clearly putting into the public domain his information came from a tip off that paedophiles had disposed of M in the lake, therefore, diverting suspicions away from the McCanns. Perhaps the Mcs needed two stabs at appropriate emotions because being pleased about the search could appear callous, as they would be pleased about M probably being dead, so now their emotions change to anger.

If by chance M was found in the lake then the supposition would be the Mcs could not have had anything to do with it. They would be off the hook as it would be obvious the paedophiles did it! If M is in the lake this change of emotions about the search would make sense as it misdirects – it leads people to believe the parents did not think Madeleine was there.

As you can see from my argument second guessing is always difficult. Any thoughts on this?

felicity said...

Hiya all

I think a read of the articles and posts on this blog confirms we do expose the truth, and the truth really hurts. That is why of late, Rosiepops feels forced to keep walking in here even though it vowed it never would. I promised it and Alroy several months ago I would well and truly rattle their cage and I meant it!

Viv x

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dolores said...

Wizard Hi,
Viv wrote a very good article on this, if you scroll up.

xx D

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

You got a valentine from little miss BNP - too bad! As you know I walked in there the other night to point out how Supertroll had just bragged on their childcaring blog about how it knew three paedophiles and their whereabouts in a small Spanish resort. Not that I needed to do that to get them to start insulting me. They just love you and me to bits really I think! Seriously, I have never seen such a vitriolic and hate filled little hole in all my life - what a bunch of weirdos!

We are kind to give them so much to talk about - then they leave others alone. Did you see how Rosie apologised for not welcoming a new poster - "I was just dealing with a vicious liar blar blar blar" - bet she ran for the door heaving!


Viv x

docmac said...

Night Viv, I'm turning in. Sleep well, I heard it's windy in the midlands.

Wizard said...

Hi Dolores,

I'll have a look - thanks.

leigh3 said...

Point taken, Atardi. I apologise, and wish I could do it in your native language.

Yes, anonymous. I am 'she'. Thank you.

Tis pity we are sometimes diverted by cynical manipulation. Hey ho. We'll get over it, and focus on the main issue: Justice for Madeleine Beth McCann, and every child, in time.

Wizard: so true from you, as always, imo. Yet this: spin cycles break down, eventually :-) ! We can hope...

dolores said...

Viv ,
It looks like the vampires are out again,
I'll hang up the garlic and get my cross.

leigh3 said...

Dolores!

Garlic and crosses, it is then :-) Very funny.

Not so funny for them when the game ends,and they face inescapable facts, and figures.

Hey ho. We should laugh at their antics now, imo. They've taken the p*** out of the public for far too long.

Boo hoo, poor them. Nah. Just kidding :-)

God bless Maddie, and every child. God forgive their abusers. I won't. I am a mere mortal, and will see them in court.

felicity said...

Hiya Wizard - as ever great to hear from you.

I wonder if maybe my thoughts are a bit more simplistic but in a lot of ways also agreeing with what you say.

~As you say initially they were OK with it - it fitted what they wanted us to believe - Maddie got taken by paedophiles, killed and dumped in there. So advancing that theory was not a problem. Now for parents who still want to persist in Madeleine is still alive though this is utterly perverse and really not only very repugnant but totally incredible. Fact, simple, biological, any child as tiny as Madeleine has a very limited shelf life with a paedophile. They use them and they kill them. The very suggestion that a) she has been taken by paedophiles and b) she could still be alive and returned to them demonstrates the tunnel vision of the McCanns. For one simple reason, it is purely excusatory for them. It does not demonstrate any serious attempt to second guess. I do not think they have the capacity to second guess because they are entirely in typical, criminal self-defence mode, they demonstrate the usual complete lack of empathy. I say this because if it was my grandaughter I will have to say because I only had boys and I had a straight choice

do you want her to have survived almost a year of agonising torture or
would you rather they quickly killed her

I would without hesitation choose the second. I believe the thought to any normal parent, of their child going through this level of torture day in day out would just not be something they could persist in insisting upon or wishing for their child. I recall the heated debate on the Daily Express about this and becoming extremely upset when Rosiepops was seeking to insist that, in accordance with a sordid article in the News of the World, Madeleine was being used as a little maid in Morocco (with all the usual racist intent) and could be recovered and returned to her parents. There was not th slightest hint of this thing understanding what this child would have been going through.

I think when the initial search in the damn was undertaken the McCanns got the ~Retardos right there ascertaining exactly what was going on and learned it was only to be a very limited search. Further they learned exactly where that search was - so that was OK. I think the McCanns ill disguise their fury when things do not go their way. I have a hunch Madeleine is in there and they are now terrified that with a far more extensive search she may well be found.

Viv x

felicity said...

Sorry Doc - slow as ever I was on the DE - nite nite. ~There was a gail blowing down my entry about an hour back but it seems to have calmed down now. Intermittent rain. When Luke and I went out earlier around 5 ish there was a bloody huge big black rain cloud and we left the damned washing out!

Viv x

felicity said...

Leigh /Dolores if you are still there garlic and crosses seems to be working - I am crossing everything !

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv,
I am not letting them go for my jugular,oops I nearly forgot the silver bullets.

xx D

felicity said...

Oh wow you have done your lovely pink rose - how fab!

Dont forget the wooden stake!

Viv x

dolores said...

Dear Viv,
Got the stake ready and the hammer,I think we are well prepared now.

I can't wait to see this beautiful rose in bloom again in my garden,and the scent is heavenly,I even save the petals.
xx D

felicity said...

Dolores darling

I just been rummaging in the DIY cupboard and got my stake and hammer ready too.

You sound garden mad just like me - I got climbing roses and clematis crammed in every which way. I like to put the petals in a bowl - they smell and look lovely dont they!

I am so excited with myself - I was just having a mooch in setting (after I sorted the stake and hammer - prioritise!) I was looking to see how I could get the blog to show those lovely avitars rather than just when you are writing a post but then had a look again at the date and time stamp and oh my god I only had this blog four or five months and I actually managed to put the clock right - brilliant!

Still dont know about the avitars - I am always frightened to mess too much and make everything disappear - yea I know Rosie you would love that! Uck what a waste of such a lovely name!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv,
Can we please have the gorgeous George Cloony back again.
xx D

felicity said...

Most certainly darling - when I figure out how to do it - I pretty thick really!

Will have to get my adopted daughter Claudia to pop in - she will sort it in a couple of mins!

Viv

viv said...

I put gorgeous George on now can you see him? I can't? Geoooooooorge? Where are you?

dolores said...

Viv,
Well done on the clock,you have a wooden stake and hammer Ihave the garlic and the cross-we are well armed for any onslaught of the vampires.
I'll probably have nightmares now.LOL
I love clematis to,and azaelia's,
oh heck, I just love all the flowers.
xx D

dolores said...

Viv,
Yikes, I don't want to see that ugly b#####d.

viv said...

Dolores darling

I just laughed myself to tears yikes now I come to put me flippin glasses on that geezer has got to go! He is an ugly barsteward - I never seen George look so rough!

Viv x

viv said...

I just changed him, I think, this might be the real George, if not I try again!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
Phew that's much better,you had my blood pressure up with that other one.
Now it's like old times darling.
XX D

leigh3 said...

Gardeners for Justice. Howzat for a campaign? Perfect :-) Can we add some lilacs to this cause? Please.

Night Viv and Dolores. Chin up. It's all going well in a roundabout way. Liars will be exposed, in time. Patience and perseverance. This is what we need, imo. Gardeners do that quite well!

xo
Leigh3

viv said...

Dolores SOZ - always was a bit of a twit! yea that is much better - that other bugger wasn't doing my blood pressure no good either nipped him off PDQ - I can literally feel it dropping now gorgeous pink roses and George - yum!

dolores said...

Leigh
Goodnight sweetheart.
We'll gather lilacs in the spring again.....

A nite nite lullaby for you.
xxD

leigh3 said...

P.S. Ladies.

Sorry to say this, but please do remember that when the McCann Machine went into psycho overdrive it swamped Press websites with obscene pictures, including avatars, and this is a very serious criminal offence for which the publisher is liable.

Eyes wide open. I hope it doesn't happen here, but please Viv, be ready to block it pronto if it does. My computers block content anyway, but maybe some computers don't.

Night night. See you next time.
xo

viv said...

Hiya again Leigh!

Well then Dolores as Leigh say I reckon

Gardeners for Justice it is !

In an exciting new development campaigners also find a useful byproduct of membership is blood pressure reduction!

I am glad George is now back as a fully fledged Team Member but know that LGC will be fighting me for him again:-)

We have the patience and the determination to see this through.

Do you think I gone and spoilt it for them only having one name on a post - should I call myself Nanday?

Nite Nite darling

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

leigh3 said...

Goodnight to you too, Dolores of the pink rose. See you next time.
xo

viv said...

goodnight and god bless both

loads a love xxxxxxxx

leigh3 said...

And finally, speaking as the self appointed bridesmaid of the future Mrs George Clooney, goodnight Viv and Luke.

LGC will have to pay a fortune in herring - or an Italian Lake Como - if she is to steal George from the hat I have bought. It's a feisty hat, and dislikes herring :-)

Night night. xo

dolores said...

Viv,
I did;nt notice your Felicity went walkies,George can only have one girl anyway,don't want him two timing you,goood thinking.
And now you are giving the vampires less to talk about,they are not going to be pleased.Tough !!

I bet you feel good now and invigorated.

xx D

viv said...

Leigh, If she wants to give me Lake Como, George and I would really like that.

What with your feisty hat and my feisty parrot she stands no chance - he takes no prisoners and has little patience with upstart Penguins, abhors the smell of herrings, being into far more refined cuisine

xxxxxxxxxx

leigh3 said...

V funny, and a happy way to go off to the land of nod.

See you next time, the future Mrs George Clooney, and Dolores of the pink rose.

We've every reason to feel optimistic, imo.

xo

viv said...

Hiya again Dolores darling


I think Viv and George will be kind of symbolic for them - I am sure they will really love it that we are back as such a good team and it will save them having to try and knit the two names together with their rather thick needles which was obviously difficult and cumbersome for them:-)


xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

dolores said...

Viv,
It is symbolic,we love it, they hate it so you have done the right thing.
You have made 3 achievements tonight,clock.name avatar.Bravo !!
Nite darling speak tomorrow.
xx D

viv said...

Dolores I think it was having you back darling - you kind of turbo boosted me and it is an amazing thing, so I look forward to seeing you again tomorrow for another charge up!

Finally,

Nite nite x


luv viv xxxxxxxx

leigh3 said...

I just had a look at other sites run by the McNasties, out of curiosity.

OMG. They are completely crazy, scary. I pity any child in the hands of these monsters; every child's nightmare, they are.

I pray that the public's perseverance and our laws will strengthen as a result of Maddie's 'disappearance', and she will not die in vain.

McNasties and others like them: monsters hiding behind fine words, dripping in sentimental tosh and sociopathic aggression whilst using children for their own ends. Sickening.

viv said...

Yes Leigh I agree dripping in sentimental tosh and socipathic aggression..and deleting my complaint about Supertroll claiming to know three paedophiles and where they are in a small Spanish resort.. but this same sick site opened a book of condolence for Marie Luz. Sickening - these people who vicioously attack anyone who dares to suggest the police are right about Kate and Gerry McCann clearly are a real danger to children.


A few words from Clarence:

Mr Mitchell added that the McCanns were not interested in appearing in a documentary detailing how they were coping with the disappearance of their daughter.

He said: "They don't want to do anything about 'woe is us a year on'. That is what the tabloids would like us to do, but we are not following their agenda, we are following our own agenda."

The McCanns had been in discussion with Channel 4 and independent production company Darlow Smithson about making a documentary about Madeleine, but that is not now going ahead.


Why are the McCanns interested in doing a documentary at all? Do they genuinely believe the public want to listen to them? No wonder discussions with almost all channels, film makers etc failed. Clarence seems to be declaring war yet again, on the press. How absurd, Clarence, it is we the public who like to read the press. You, Kate and Gerry McCann may be pursuing your own agenda, but do you really think we give a damn. Since when did you get to tell us what we read or watch on TV. Get a life, megalomaniac, and stop ramming your money grabbing clients down our throats. The only place we want to see them is in a court of law, answering for their wicked crimes. I never did rate ITV as a TV channel anyway and this certainly has not changed my view!

Wizard said...

Good Felicity,
Thanks for last nights reply.
Best Regards

Niki said...

God morgen Atardi!
Good morning 2345 and Viv! and all!!
Thank you for replies and posts yesterday!

2345, re. Geraghty, money, money, money...

-----

Gerry's Blog

Day 313: 11/03/2008

Kate and I were so sad to learn that Mari Luz’s body had been found. This is the news that at any parent of a missing child dreads and a situation we desperately hope that we never have to face. We deeply sympathise with her family and pray they remain strong and in time are able to find peace.

We would like to thank everyone who continues to send us messages of support, encouragement and of hope. All of our family have been traumatised by Madeleine’s abduction and continued absence and the tremendous support we have received has undoubtedly helped us enormously over the last 10 months. Tomorrow there is a march in London starting opposite Western Marble Arch synagogue at 10am to petition for more support for the families of missing people who are left behind. The march has been organised by two mothers whose sons are missing and will be attended by representatives of the charity Missing People and families of those who have relatives missing.

----

Wonder if the McCanns will join the march? They surley got enough support when their child got missing?!
---
I also deeply feel with Mari Luz parents, and hope they will find the answers to what happend to her... Belive it was better though, to find her dead, than to live with the possibilety that she was kept somewhere and abused by sick pedhoes...
--
I'm off again.
Might see you later:)
Niki

Wizard said...

Intersting article -

Jornal de Noticias this morning:

http://jn.sapo.pt/2008/03/12/ultima/pro ... addie.html

Forbidden to write about Maddie

The journalists of Express Newspapers, the British media group that holds four tabloids, are forbidden to write about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. The editorial decision was made after the parents of the child that has been missing for almost a year announced that they are preparing to sue the publications over articles that they consider "defamatory and rude".

The prohibition affects all the newspapers of the group - Daily Express, Sunday Express, Daily Star and Daily Star Sunday - and left the reporters "furious".

They say that the McCanns feel "threatened because we do not only write what they want to see in print. We also cover the investigation by the Portuguese police", said a source within the group that was contacted by JN. "The only thing that we want now is that they are forced to respond before a court, under oath, about the disappearance of their daughter. Maybe then, the public will see the answers to some questions, namely what happened on the night of May 3", [the source] said.

Kate and Gerry McCann have decided to hire a reputable law firm in London, that is specialised in defamation cases. They hope to receive 4 million pounds (over 5,5 million euros), an amount that the spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, assumes that will revert to the Find Madeleine fund.

OpusThePenguin said...

Did somebody mention Lake Como?

Anyone know what the herring count is there?

:>

Zodiac said...

Excellent posts yesterday. You have all taken the words right out of my mouth.

Sue for 4 million, what a surprise that is.

Anonymous said...

alsbellas site is being attacked by a crazy, does someone know how to contact her and get the posts deleted. I am even frightened just reading them. Some people are so sick.

docmac said...

Anon

I have contacted Claudia by e-mail. Hopefully she will see it sooner rather than later.

Anonymous said...

docmac
thankyou, i feel sick now reading those comments. These people should be locked up.

dolores said...

Hi all
quickly tune in to channel 31
The Matthew Wright show.Discussion coming up about Goa case and negligence.Acaller asks why double standards compared to Mc case

dolores said...

Matthew Wright Show
Lady on the phone saying we are applying double standards. Why are we accusing the mother of 15 yr old of being negligent but not allowing the same things to be said about the Mccanns. MW said that they were getting a lot of comments saying the same thing. He would not pass it on for discussion.He looked uncomfortable with the question,and quickly moved on to next caller.

Was he worried about being sued,why the stranglehold on freedom of speech.What power is lurking here.

atardi said...

Goedemiddag Niki,

Nice to "read" you again.

You are right. The march is for more support for families of missing children. The Mc Canns had and still have enough support.

atardi said...

Dolores/Wizard

Interesting.

I think everyone is being very careful because: read Wizard's last post

dolores said...

Hi,
Shannon's stepfather on Sky news, (part of article)

He also dismissed comparisons between his family and the parents of missing Madeleine McCann.

Shannon was last seen at school.
"It's two families from two different backgrounds which shouldn't really get compared - basically, a poor family and a rich family."
"To me, they (the McCanns) are like celebrities in other people's eyes.
"They've got money, they know celebrities and all that, so they can afford to do everything they do, everything they can.
"We're trying to do what we can with the money we've got, with the resources we've got."
---------
This should be a wake up call to many,about what is going on in our country.I hope Shannon is found safe and well.

Di said...

Hello everyone

Sorry if this has already been posted, I have not had time to read back all the comments.

Joana Morais reports today, that Mari Luz was alive when she either fell or was thrown into the Huelva estuary. Hopefully it was a tragic accident, the latter is too awful to contemplate.





http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/.

LittleGreyCell said...

I heard Shannon's mother and step-father being interviewed this morning on the Today programme on Radio 4.

The journalist was Sarah Montague, of whom I am not a fan when she's questioning politicians, but she was very hard-hitting with them, talking about family reports Shannon's grandmother had placed ON the record of Craig (Shannon's step-father) hitting the kids and such-like. Naturally, they both denied this was the case, even though they admitted that members of the family had been saying this.

When you compare the deferential treatment the McCanns get from the press - remember Jenny Murray's interview with Kate on Woman's Hour? - it's laughable.

Can't be that long before the McCanns are rivalling Neil and Christine Hamilton for celebrity appearances every time you switch on the TV.

eurekamano said...

Hi, very interesting article 'Jornal de Noticias' today, posted by 'Astro' on 3As
12 Mar.

Forbidden to write about Maddie

The journalists of Express Newspapers, the British media group that holds four tabloids, are forbidden to write about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. The editorial decision was made after the parents of the child that has been missing for almost a year announced that they are preparing to sue the publications over articles that they consider "defamatory and rude".

The prohibition affects all the newspapers of the group - Daily Express, Sunday Express, Daily Star and Daily Star Sunday - and left the reporters "furious".

They say that the McCanns feel "threatened because we do not only write what they want to see in print. We also cover the investigation by the Portuguese police", said a source within the group that was contacted by JN. "The only thing that we want now is that they are forced to respond before a court, under oath, about the disappearance of their daughter. Maybe then, the public will see the answers to some questions, namely what happened on the night of May 3", [the source] said.

Kate and Gerry McCann have decided to hire a reputable law firm in London, that is specialised in defamation cases. They hope to receive 4 million pounds (over 5,5 million euros), an amount that the spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, assumes that will revert to the Find Madeleine fund.

isis said...

Viv, Have been reading on alsabellas and by the number of deleted posts i assume that the sick looney that visited us here has been released from his secure cell or not been sectioned and has found access to a keyboard. Finger on the button !!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
LittleGreyCell said...

Anonymous,

I do so hope you're not a friend or relative of the McCanns...imagine how they will thank you for your support when your true identity via your ISP address is traced by the police and your relationship to them is revealed.

Any Court of Law will be asking why innocent people have need of 'friends' like you representing them.

What a grand job you're all doing for Kate and Gerry!

2345 said...

Felicity & Everyone,

Catching up on news and views, but short of time today.

Today's press - Shannon includes:
"The hunt for missing Shannon Matthews is the largest police operation in West Yorkshire since the Ripper inquiry 30 years ago.
The multi-million-pound search for the timid nine-year old schoolgirl is now in it's fourth week ... Chief Inspector Graham Armitage involved in this also worked on the Ripper's.

"Victim recovery dogs" are trained to find decomposing bodies; there are only 27 such dogs in the country and 16 of them are being used in this case. These dogs are trained to find anything from live human beings to traces of blood.
Police are continuing to interview people of specific interest, including Shannon's close family and friends. Det Supt. Brennan said: "We will confirm their alibis or blow them apart and find out what has happened to Shannon".

Above all else it underpins the expertize and commitment of Police in such cases irrespective of the cost. "Leaving No Stone Unturned" - in action in it's TRUE sense.

Zodiac said...

Isis,

Yes there was a loony on Alsabella's site. Very sick person. If what was written was from a Pro then who needs enemies with friends/supporters like that Team McC.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
LittleGreyCell said...

Anonymous,

And just how would you know this, Anonymous?

Is it the same way you KNOW Kate and Gerry are innocent?

viv said...

Hiya all

I am very sorry to learn that Alsabella's site has now also been hit by the same lunatic no doubt who struck here. I think we could see this building however as I did notice the pure hatred building towards her with Rosiepops even coming and posting it on here as well as on its own sick little site.

I did attempt to offer Rosie a warning yesterday but it came and posted again!


felicity said...
Rosiepops

You might think your repulsive lengthy rants with your vindictive lies about Alsabella are worth posting on here but I am afraid I do not agree. Your whole blog has nothing to do with Madeleine McCann or her parents it is just devoted to your hatred of myself and Alsabella. Stay in your House of Filth venting your hatred of others. You are sick and deranged.

Viv x

Tuesday, 11 March 2008 01:48:00 o'clock GMT
Rosiepops said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Tuesday, 11 March 2008 01:52:00 o'clock GMT

viv said...

NORTH EUROPEAN CHILD'S SOCK FOUND IN DAMN OF ARADE

I have just read this on Alsabella's site. I posted on this thread last night to Wizard that the McCanns sent the Retardos to see what was going on when the original search of this damn was being undertaken and were reassured it was only in a limited area so were OK with that. But then they were furious on learning it was to be widened and refused to spend any fund monies upon it. Now with the discovery of the sock, they have sent the Retardos to be present again. I am afraid I can only draw one conclusion from this.....(!) that as I said last night they are indeed paranoid about Madeleine's body being recovered from where they dumped it.

hope4truth said...

Viv

Just looking through posts for 5 minutes I am off again now but have to ask have you finaly got your clock fixed or is today a fluke??? xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hope - no I finally sussed it!

What do you think of the sock being found? and the McCanns now deciding to get involved! They are saying it would be an unusual thing to find in this location and it is not from a Portugal child, but North European!!

viv said...

Hi 2345

I note the police in Shannon's case state they are continuing to question people of specific interest including close family members and Shannon had a step-father, rather than her natural father. This does sound rather grim. I hope they soon recover her and the truth can quickly come out.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Viv,

I posted on here earlier that Shannon's step-father, Craig, was 'grilled' by Radio 4 this morning...it was put to him that his wife's parents had gone on record as saying that he, Craig, beat the kids on a regular basis.

He's not that bright and fairly inarticulate, so could only say "no, I didn't".

I reckon the police are watching him closely...

BTW, well done with the clock!

X

viv said...

Hiya LGC

We are clearly in like mind regarding Craig - all out push to recover her body first, I guess. They know where he is and keep such suspects under very close observations. Being inarticulate should at least speed up the process and save taxpayers money!

I read Eureka's post with great interest regarding the attitude of the Daily Express. In fairness to them I do recall commenting "we get turns about..one day an article for McCanns, the next day, against". So, they were trying to give a balanced view it would seem. They seem to be playing a dangerous game with the McCanns now, well come on then sue us for libel and explain exactly what happened on 3 May. I cannot see the McCanns calling their bluff somehow. I think it was the Daily Express played a similar game with the alleged killers of Stephen Lawrence, printing their names and accusing them, and saying well if we got it wrong, sue us! I am beginning to understand why Clarence Mitchell hates the Express now. They were printing both sides, as they say, not just his side and allowing the public to say what they thought, but banning...many, many against the Mcanns. What a clever ploy really - the McCanns would have an uphill battle saying that was unfair when they allowed Rosiepops to stay and hardly deleted any of its vile comments! In short the Pro-McNasties got cynically used by the Daily Expressed, allowed to play out their personality disordered approach to defending the McCanns on the worldwide web. It was a great PR job in showing them up for what they are...(!)

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

Yes, absolutely. And I really don't see the McCanns suing anyone - not unless Madeleine turns up alive.

As we know, Libel juries are notoriously unpredicatable. But if the McCanns are at all worried about getting a fair criminal trial in the UK due to the media attention, they'd be completely mad to risk a defamation case, where nothing has to be proved according to the rigourous standards of 'beyond reasonable doubt!'

Kate Gerry's reputations are already shot for leaving their kids alone night after night. What jury is going to sympathize with them for loss of reputation?

I think it's just posturing - for money and to stop others from publishing negative stuff.

If MY child had gone missing, I couldn't even begin to consider suing anyone for loss of reputation - nor would I care!

Wish the Stephen Lawrence thugs HAD sued - THAT would have brought them a whole lot of trouble, but this is undoubedtly why they didn't, having taken advice from their legal team. (Who on earth could represent them? Evil B******s).

:)

2345 said...

Viv,

I agree ... the mother's comments, behaviour and genuine grief lead me to believe that she is 'in the dark'.

2345 said...

Viv/LGC,

I, for one, was singularly unimpressed with DE's behaviour in it's Forum management. That was definitely run according to dictate. I noticed on several occasions that Police reaction to front page items, i.e. toothman - was usually relegated to page 26 - a few lines !

viv said...

Hiya all

I am going to start a new thread with a really good article from the Daily Express, that would probably have really annoyed Clarence.

2345

AT the time, I was very miffed about being banned, but can now clearly see what the Daily Express's game plan was- they were never on the side of Kate and Gerry McCann but they had to appear to be acting fairly. I have said before, newspapers often know far more about a case than they are allowed to print... It was very disingenuous conduct but I think their overall motives were good in allowing the public to draw the obvious conclusions.

2345 said...

wizard,

My comment regarding the sock is for several reasons. My focus is always the Police - findings, procedures, etc. We do not know what 'stand alone' evidence the Police have, reportedly found. If they had reason to suspect Maddie was in a reservoir, they would, in my have deployed teams of specialists as a matter of course.

Secondly, I think it would have driven any mother insane to leave a child at the bottom of a reservoir in another country. Whilst 'mind blowing' in many respects, TTW4s' thinking and conclusions of Maddie being repatriated by Gerry makes sense psychologically. I never ever under estimate intelligence or the behaviour of all those assisting the McCanns, especially Metado 3.

It makes sense to get Maddie out of Portugal and back on home soil prior to engineering defence campaign. I read in a Portuguese sourced report on 3 A's several days ago that the trial will be held in Britain. True or not, I believe those protecting the McCanns, including politicans, will engineer this if at all possible for obvious reasons.

If the McCanns had no qualms about leaving their daughter so far home in a water grave (my instincts say not), then I believe they would have ensured she was securely packaged to prevent anything belonging to her, i.e. a sock, reaching the surface for discovery.

I've had many concerns about comments and behaviours since the time Mari was reported missing; I must go shortly, but am happy to explain my this, if you're interested, tomorrow. It is not by coincidence that Mari's body was found in water. My first thought, based on links between this case and Maddies - was the location - was she in water ? Yes. This is a sensitive subject so soon after her being recovered. I have noticed conflicting press reports ... my views are always heavily monitored due to my attention to detail and unwavering support of the Police, specifically the FSS information released by Leicester Police which I continue to cite. There's a direct link between the sock in the water and Mari's recovery from water ....

The Spanish Police are faced with the same as PJ; my instincts tell me they're liaising.

2345 said...

Viv,

I agree with your comments about DE's efforts to be fair; the influential powers stem from a PR spokesman with political connections plus Government interest and interference in this case. Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy intrigue and behaviour.

Back in the real world of law, order and justice is a child who died in her parents' apartment on a family holiday. United we stand for as long as it takes .....