30 Mar 2008

Kate McCann her Story 5 August 2007

Kate McCann: My Story
::: What really happened the night Madeleine vanished::: Why her last words to me mean so much::: How my twins are coping without their big sister
Related Articles
Kate McCann says she may never return to the family home as police examine suspect's garden
Hi All

What do you all think of Kate's story back in August? I have my own thoughts but would be very interested to read others...What was her motivation for speaking out for the first time, alone? Why did she want it distributed to all the Sunday newspapers?

Viv x

The Independent
Sunday, 5 August 2007

Mrs McCann, speaking in an interview that she asked should be distributed to all Sunday newspapers, also tells what really happened when she discovered that her daughter was missing, how her twins are coping without their sister, and why she may never want to return to the family home again. She also takes time to answer those who have criticised her for leaving the children alone.
Meanwhile, as her story is published, Belgian police were awaiting results of DNA tests done on a straw and drinks bottle which were used by a girl spotted in a restaurant in the Flemish town of Tongeren.

On Saturday, it will be 100 days since Madeleine McCann was snatched from the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz. Interviewed for the first time without her husband, Madeleine's mother tells Lori Campbell about the criticism they have faced, the support they have received and how she and her family have coped since that dreadful night
The one thing I have always been definite about is that I wanted to be a mother. Then when we were trying for a baby and it wasn't happening, it was really hard. The longer it went on, the harder it was. I saw my friends having children and I was really delighted for them, but it made me feel sad too.
We tried unsuccessfully for several years to conceive. There came a point when we admitted we needed help. I was so desperate to have a child I'd try anything. I know IVF isn't everyone's choice, but I wanted to try it. By that stage I was happy to start the treatment because it was taking the pressure off us a bit. We had one unsuccessful attempt before Madeleine, and that was very hard. But when I got pregnant with Madeleine it was just fantastic. It didn't seem true. I did a test at home so I could handle the result if it wasn't good. I was looking at it thinking 'I don't believe that'. Then I went to the hospital and they checked it. I was really excited.
Madeleine's birth
Once we were past 12 weeks we were telling everyone. I swam every day until the day she was born to keep us both healthy. It was a really uncomplicated pregnancy. I had no sickness, nothing. It was so easy. I didn't know I was having a girl until she was born. [She smiles] There she was, perfect. She was lovely. She had the most beautiful face. I'd thought I was going to have a boy, just based on instinct. That actually made it even more special that she was a girl.
The first five or six months were really difficult. She had very bad colic and cried about 18 hours a day. She had to be picked up all the time. So I spent many a day dancing round the living room holding Madeleine. I remember trying to butter my toast with one hand and holding her in the other. We would watch the clock and Gerry would come home and there would be three of us. Sometimes she just looked so sad with colic, and the three of us would be cuddled together trying to get her through it. Like a lot of things, you go through that difficult, bad stage and it tightens that bond. We've both got an incredible bond with Madeleine.
The twins are born
When the twins were born she was amazing, I keep saying that, but she was. She was only 20 months old. She just handled it so well. She was still a baby herself ... [Kate's voice breaks and she has to pause to stop herself crying] I'll try not to get emotional at this point. I just remember when they were born. I'm going to get a bit upset now, sorry. When the time came to bring Madeleine in, it was in the evening. She came in and ... just her little face. When she saw the twins for the first time it was lovely. It was so nice, this expression. She sat on the end of my bed.
We had the odd moment of course, such as when I was breast-feeding the twins. There was a tired Madeleine walking about the room wanting attention. But she was remarkable the way she coped with it all. She would look at me and say 'hold it, hold it,' meaning she wanted to hold one of the babies."
Holiday in Portugal
She was so excited about coming to Portugal. She was holding on to another girl's hand walking up the stairs to the plane. She was no trouble on the flight, always chatting, and colouring in or reading.
The kids had a fantastic time. We all did, but it was lovely seeing them having fun. We did use the kids' club and very often did activities there. Madeleine in particular had a ball. They did swimming, went on a little boat, went to the beach, did lots of colouring in and face painting. Madeleine is at the age where she could really enjoy it.
They played tennis, which she loved, she was so happy. They had a little dance prepared for Friday. It was a little presentation they were working on in the days before. I don't know what it was, I never got to see it ...
On the evening she went missing, before she went to bed, she said, 'Mummy I've had the best day ever. I'm having lots and lots of fun.' [Pause]
That night
The night she went missing there was about 20 seconds of disbelief where I thought 'that can't be right'. I was checking for her. Then there was panic and fear. That was the first thing that hit. I was screaming her name. I ran to the group. Everyone was the same. It was just total fear. I never thought for one second that she'd walked out. I knew someone had been in the apartment because of the way it had been left.
But I knew she wouldn't do that anyway. There wasn't a shadow of a doubt in my mind she'd been taken. That's why the fear set in. Then you go through the guilt phase. Straight away, because we didn't know what had happened. We were just so desperately sorry. Every hour now, I still question, 'why did I think that was safe?'
I can't describe how much I love Madeleine. If I'd had to think for one second, 'should we have dinner and leave them?' I wouldn't have done it. It didn't happen like that. I didn't have to think for a second, that's how safe I felt.
Maybe it was because it was family-friendly, because it felt so safe. That week we had left them alone while we had dinner. There is no way on this planet I would take a risk, no matter how small, with my children. I do say to myself 'why did I think it was safe?' But it did feel safe and so right. I love her and I'm a totally responsible parent and that's the only thing that keeps me going. I have no doubt about that.
You don't expect a predator to break in and take your daughter out the bed. It could have happened under other circumstances and there would still be the regret. It wasn't like a decision we made. It was a matter of 'let's get the kids to sleep, then we'll have dinner.' It wasn't a 'shall I, shan't I?' thing. I feel desperately sorry to her that we weren't there.
This has touched so many people. I've had so many letters from mothers, really kind words. People have said 'Kate, we've done this a hundred times over ourselves. Why would you for one minute think something like that would happen?' It's not like we went down town or anything.
How did it happen?
People have said to me you're the unluckiest person in the world, and we are. That night runs over and over in my mind, and I'm sure people will learn from our mistake, if you want to call it that. But it is important not to lose sight of the fact we haven't committed a crime. Somebody has. Somebody's been there, somebody's been watching. They took our daughter away and we can't lose sight of that.
There are still moments where I think 'how did that happen?' You can't imagine in your wildest dreams that anyone would do something like that. It's awful for us but I have absolutely no idea what Madeleine's feeling. [She pauses to hold back tears] How can someone do that to a child?
When we moved apartments we unpacked some of Madeleine's things. We don't have a room for her set out or anything. I've kept her clothes together. She has lots of presents to open that people have sent. Mostly people who don't know her, and pictures other children have drawn.
The twins know she's not there and they do miss her. But on a day-to-day basis they are happy. They're lovely, like a little double act, they're so funny. They put their little rucksacks on, hold hands and walk off around the room. They're fantastic.
The twins' reaction
Their vocabulary has come on so much since we've been here. The older they get the more it stretches, and there are areas we're going to have to broach. But we'll let them take the lead. They talk about Madeleine's things and if they get a biscuit they say 'one for Sean, one for Amelie, one for Madeleine'.
There are photographs of Madeleine all around and they comment on them. They've got a lot of love and protection. We've taken professional advice just to check we're doing the right thing by them. We have contact with a child psychologist when we need it.
When we went back to the UK for a family baptism there was an empty seat on the plane and Sean said 'that's Madeleine's seat'. That caught me. Because I wasn't going home, it didn't feel too bad leaving. It was important for me to go. The hardest thing wasn't being in the UK, it was to be with such a close family and for Madeleine not to be there. I knew how much she'd have loved to be there ... Despite her small size she just has this huge presence. She brings a lot of joy.
Amelie asked me afterwards, 'Where's Madeleine? I miss my big sister.' I don't know where that question came from, it could have been because it was a family day. She's obviously made that connection, she knows Madeleine's her big sister. Amelie will sometimes point at the Cuddle Cat [Madeleine's cuddly toy] and say 'Madeleine. Her Cuddle Cat. Looking after it.' She's probably heard me saying that.
Sean said something the other day about Madeleine. It catches me. Then they do whatever they're doing, like 'look at this Noddy', and they're on to something else. It's not dwelled on.
Gerry's reaction
Gerry's way of coping is to keep busy and focused. He needs to feel like he's doing something. He's a very optimistic, positive person. I'm not always. With a lot of the campaign stuff, he has done the talking. Sometimes I want to speak, but I just can't. It's not natural for me. Gerry's used to having to speak at conferences and it's harder for me. But I'm equally involved. Every decision is mutual.
When Gerry went to Washington, he rang me three or four times a day to ask me what I thought. Although I wasn't there in person I knew hour by hour what was happening. We knew it was a positive visit. It wasn't about Madeleine in particular. We've learnt a lot and become aware of the bigger issue.
Other missing children
There are so many missing children out there, abducted children and sexually exploited children. Once you know all that you can't turn a blind eye to it. Madeleine is our priority, but we have to help. We can't just ignore those other children.
I don't know why the publicity's been so massive. We're normal people. We don't have amazing contacts or anything, we just have strong friends. Everyone brainstormed and became very creative. They did what they could and if that meant asking well-known faces, celebrities, it was done. They are normal people too. They wanted to help.
I still have moments of panic and fear. It's not as intense and unrelenting as the first five days. Now, obviously, we have hope and it's important to hold on to that. I do go back to those dark moments. It would be abnormal never to touch on them. I do feel panic and fear when I'm thinking about her, but it doesn't help. I'm not helping Madeleine by going there. It's important to channel those emotions into something positive.
Returning home
But I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to go back into our family home. I can't bear the thought of it. We'd lived in that house for a year and it was a really happy family home. We have so many happy memories in that house. Madeleine's room is shocking pink. She chose the colour.
Obviously things change as the weeks and months go by. We haven't got the pressure of Sean and Amelie starting school or anything. At the moment we're staying and we feel happier staying. We are closer to the investigation. Some of that might be mad, I don't know. We don't know where Madeleine is, we don't think she's in the UK but there's nothing to say she's any further from there than she is from here. It's a gut feeling. I'm aware there's probably things that would be easier at home, but at the moment this is the right thing for us.
And it's hard to think about work. I'm not looking too far ahead, but I can't drop the campaign, I know that. I can't turn a blind eye to it. We'll do whatever we can, working with other organisations, to try to make a difference. It's so hard not to get involved, it's so intimate to us now that we can't ignore it. It's not like I go round in a bubble, but I honestly did not realise the scale of this problem, children suffering like this.
The public's reaction
The criticism from the public is hurtful. I hate publicity, interviews, anything like that. I just hate it. When things have happened in the past to children I've wondered 'how do you get through that, how can you even live another day?' Then here we were doing press conferences. You just don't know until you're in that situation. Like this morning: how did I get in the shower, have my breakfast?
I just go through the motions. Any parent would do anything they could for their child. We're just doing what we feel is the best thing for Madeleine. Some people say the publicity will be harmful, that she'll be hidden away because of it. But what can you do, just sit and do nothing? It's difficult. It's awkward. But it's not about me, it's not about Gerry, it's about Madeleine.
As a couple, I think we're stronger than ever. We've got an equal partnership. We don't row, we've never rowed. We have different strengths and have reached different stages at different points but we help each other. We haven't talked about staying here for ever, we're just not looking that far ahead. We've had so much support, mothers can empathise with me. Speaking now, on my own, is a way of saying thank you. They've given a bit of themselves to me.
[Next Saturday will mark 100 days since Madeleine's disappearance] I'm still hoping we're not going to get there. Every day I'm hoping we won't get to the next day without her. But we have to keep going for Madeleine.
If I could say one thing to comfort her it's that we love her. She knows we love her very much. She knows we're looking for her, that we're doing absolutely everything and we'll never give up.

733 comments:

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viv said...

Then we have Jane Tanner's "story" in the super Sun in November 2007, where she contradicts Kate by saying everyone thought Madeleine was just hiding. I reckon this must have been around the time they had that cosy little witness conference in the hotel with the solicitor, presumably the delightful Edward Smethurst..I wondered why they did not have their conference at Rothley Manor, was it what will the neighbours think, or was it paranoia about police bugs perhaps..it had been reported that Gerry had become very nervous of using his mobile..not that he had anything to hide of course! Maybe he just became a bit more savvy..too late I reckon!

For witnesses who are so fearful of the PJ, apparently, and how they are supposed to not speak out..they are gagged, it is cruel!it is quite extraordinary Kate wants it all in the Sunday papers and dear Jane has a chat with The Sun...ummmm Several months later it is great she had her memory so well refreshed..

--------------

Jane Tanner's exclusive interview with The Sun, 20 November 2007
I DID see man abduct Maddie The Sun

By ONLINE REPORTERS
Published: 20 Nov 2007

MADDIE kidnap witness Jane Tanner yesterday told how she watched the tot being snatched – and insisted she has NO doubt about what she saw.

In an exclusive interview with The Sun – her first with any newspaper – Jane forcefully hit back at critics who have suggested she is lying.

Amid sobs, she said: "I DID see a man that night carrying away Madeleine.

"She WAS abducted."

Tears welling in her eyes, she went on: "I wake up to that image ever day. Every day I see him there, striding away, carrying Madeleine and I try desperately to remember more detail, what his face was like.

"I think about it over and over again. It’s horrible.

"Madeleine was adorable. Every day I hope this is the day we find her."

Twisting her Look For Madeleine yellow and green wristbands, Jane, 36, then went into detail about the night of May 3.

She told how she and the other members of the so-called Tapas Nine had been leaving the restaurant at the complex in Praia da Luz to check their children.

Returning

It was on one of her visits to see her two daughters that Jane passed Maddie’s dad Gerry, 39. He was returning from seeing his children.

Seconds later she saw a man cross from left to right in front of her with a child lolling back in his arms.

Jane said: "It wasn’t unusual to see people with children, even at that time of night. But my attention was drawn to him because the child had bare feet.

"It was a cold night and I thought that was strange because as a mother I would never have taken my child around at that time without something on their feet or a blanket. All I could see of the child was their legs dangling.

"The man was about ten to fifteen feet in front of me and was walking quite quickly and I can remember thinking, 'That’s odd'.

"But that was all, nothing to make me scream out to make him stop. I never at that time thought it could be Madeleine. I’d just passed Gerry so I thought his children were all asleep in bed."

Jane carried on to her apartment where she found her daughters were fine, so she went back to the tapas bar.

About 15 minutes later her partner Dr Russell O’Brien checked and found one of the girls had been sick so he asked a friend to fetch Jane.

It was while Jane was there that Maddie’s mum Kate, 39, went to see her children at around 10.05pm – and found the girl missing.

Jane said the first she knew was when she looked out of her window and saw the table at the tapas bar was empty. She opened the door and there was commotion.

She said: "I saw all our friends outside shouting. I opened the door and one, Rachael, shouted at me, 'Madeleine’ s gone!' As soon as she said that the image of that man carrying the child came into my head and I felt physically sick. A feeling of complete horror washed over me."

Minutes later Jane saw Kate. Close to tears, Jane admitted she could not bear to tell her about the man. She said: "At that time it seemed everyone thought Madeleine was hiding.

I knew that if I told her about the man it would shatter that. I was also hoping desperately that I’d been wrong. Instead I took another friend, Fiona, to one side and told her.

"Then, at around 11.15, two policemen arrived and I told them. Later CID arrived. They did this thing called a cognitive technique, where they put you back in the moment, and it was then that I remembered the pyjamas.

"There were pink and white, they were what Madeleine was wearing. I just felt so awful, I felt I could have stopped this from happening. I think of that everyday.

"I have to live with it forever, that guilt is never going to go away." It has been reported that the man she saw that night was Robert Murat, the first person named as a suspect. But Jane said she simply does not know.

Jane, from Exeter, Devon, said: “He had his face turned away and it was dark.

"I’ve done an artist’s impression and want people to look at that and rack their brains as to whether they know him, or if they were on holiday, saw him.

"Please just ring the Find Madeleine Spanish hotline."

Meanwhile, the Portuguese police plan to question the McCanns' seven friends once more, it was reported today.

Portuguese newspaper Jornal de Noticias said the interviews would take place in an attempt to clear up some of the reported contradictions in the friends' statements.

The newspaper added that the questioning was expected to take place over the next few days working with English local authorities.

viv said...

October FBI sketch issued with face blank as Jane unclear as to details. Jan 2008 or Feb full face man appears..

Both of these I believe are due to announcements made PJ are to return..They were being played with, I think, to see the reaction and they always get one! However, I think the PJ will genuinely arrive now as reported on 7 April.

2345 said...

The article was written after cadavers visit and removal of forensics and results were - I believe- being purposely delayed.

McCanns defence has always by media, giving 'right' impressions as opposed to honest accounts. Kate's been working under Gerry's orders. How honest are Kate's comments ?

My thoughts are that it appears to be an epitaph to a dead child - an obituary of a short life. Kate's loss has caused true grief - there's no turning back - it's final.

I think there's a need to let the public know Madeleine was a much wanted baby, an easy loving child; reports of diary content suggest otherwise. Kate's telling us she wanted and embraced motherhood. I think she may have found the reality somewhat different; her diary suggests she was left to get on with it alone for the most part.

It's emotive, but the sad truth is that cadavers strong reaction may not have been as expected a month earlier. Kate & Gerry must have been very fearful of FSS results and Police reaction. It sounds heartless, but the reason for the interview was definitely self serving - Kate's defence of herself - evoking public sympathy
and swaying public opinion.

2345 said...

Talking of overwhelming need to sway public opinion (against police), I notice DE's 'no evidence' front page statement is still online seven days later.
This exceeds five days given to George Harrison look alike.

Closure of Alsa's blog prevents public's access to events and news from Portugal. Access to her site - google - re-routed to DE Forum - Alsa's being demeaned and ridiculed with no means of defence. Comments include "no-one's interested in her or the views of the Portuguese" - including presumably PJ

How I wonder are PJ progressing with their dossier of damning evidence ?

According to DE, 'no evidence' exists.

Word on 3 A's yesterday was that interview date was not convenient to one of Tapas group. McCanns' lawyers have told Prosecutor they will NOT co-operate or answer any more questions. How many other prime suspects in a criminal investigation where forensics show death have been allowed to dictate to law enforcers ?

Di said...

Good morning Viv and all

Reading Kates article, I notice she states, it is important not to lose sight of the fact we havn't committed a crime. I don't think the PJ will go along with that.

Interesting to also see THEY asked well known celebrities for help. No wonder the likes of Branson etc., withdrew their support. Nobody likes to be made to look foolish.

I see it was a wind up on 3As about the DX headline, an early April fool maybe.

Di said...

Joana Morais reports interviews will take place 8th April.







http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/03/mccanns-case-team-of-pj-in-leicester.html

Wizard said...

Good Morning All,

Points of concern I have that have never been answered satisfactorily

1. Kate screams. “They have taken her, they have taken her”. How does she draw this conclusion and who is she referring to. Kate has two daughters how is anyone suppose to know who she means
2. If Tanner is to be believed Kate would have seen her leaving the Tapis bar at 9.45approx. She knew Tanner and O’Brien at this point was next door why didn’t she not knock them up first. As she thought this was an abduction why leave her other children in a vulnerable position why not knock next door and get one of them to run and get Gerry?
3. Madeleine had a history of sleep walking why assume an abduction had taken place when it was more likely, from her medical history, she had wandered off.
4. Shortly after finding M missing, instead of searching for Madeleine, Kate collapses in a heap and can’t put a sentence together. Searching would have been more appropriate behaviour, it would be normal to have hope at this point and the adrenaline rush would have precipitated a search not a collapse.
5. When PDL residents and other holiday makers searched Gerry thought it more appropriate to texts England about M’s abduction.

These incidents viewed separately could be put down to shock or a wide spectrum of individual behaviour in a given situation however viewed collectively they surely indicate something completely different.

Wizard said...

In the above articles the flaws in Jane Tanner accounts begin to sufface.

She says she left the Tapis Bar and at 9.15pm passed both Gerry and Jes Wilkins talking in the street by apartment 5A. They did not see her.

She saw a man carrying a child in the road behind the apartments. Wilkins and Gerry did not see him.

The waiters at Tapis bar say she did not leave the table at all.

Her partner O’Brien’s account of where he was cannot be independently verified. He was missing from the restaurant but we have only his word as to why.

If Jane left the table when she said Kate would have seen her. It would have been more logical for Kate to call out to her friend next door rather than shout from the balcony “They have taken her, they have taken her”.

All of Kate screaming after announcing her daughter missing was not heard by Tanner and O’Brien who were both, they say, next door at the time. But her screams could be heard by the waiters at the Tapis bar 120m away.

Logically what does this indicate –either O’Brien and Tanner were not in the apartment or chose not to respond because they were already aware of what was going down.

If Tanner did not leave the restaurant why did she feel the need to lie by making up bundle man?

hope4truth said...

Morning All

I have no doubt that Kate loved Madeleine and regrets what happend to her.

Reading the above there are lots of "They" comments which i find odd (but maybe I am reading it wrong)they did swimming, they did face painting, they went to the beach, they played tennis. When we go away We is a word I would use We went swimming we played tennis. When you leave a child at a kids club parents dont stay so I guess they did lots of things but not with their parents.

She knew that Madeleine had been taken because she knew she would not wander off? Why? she wandered off a few days before and was missing for half an hour.

She knew that someone had been in because the way the apartment had been left in her 20 seconds of disbelief she knew how? Gerry had been back to the apartment before her maybe he had left it that way?

"Why did I think that was safe?" I dont know why anyone would think it was safe to leave three small children alone in a strange room with an unlocked door in fact it was not safe it was bloody stupid and very selfish.

If my daughter was missing I would not care what people thought of me it would be no worse than what I thought of myself. But if I really needed to let the world know that I was telling the truth I would take a lie detector test.

They were left to look after themselves while their parents had fun as a result Madeleine is missing. I cant imagine what they are going through if she really is missing but it is nothing to what Madeleine is.

Zodiac said...

'You don't expect a predator to break in and take your daughter out the bed'.

What evidence is there to suggest a break in?
What responsible parent would leave 3 children aged 3 and under alone in a holiday flat to go and eat dinner over 100mts away?



'I'm sure people will learn from our mistake, if you want to call it that'.

WTF. No I most certainly would not call it a mistake. It is neglect of 3 little children and as a result of the neglect the eldest child has vanished. Why?
Did you not foresee any danger in leaving 3 little children alone, within the apt?

'But it is important not to lose sight of the fact we haven't committed a crime'.

Please do not insult my intelligence.
Please do not insult me as a mother of 4, to expect that because you have said it is a fact.
When you told the Portuguese Police you left them alone to go for dinner, I believe you confessed to the crime of abandonment.
Quite simply another press article controlled by the McC's. Where were any investigative questions from the journalist? What a load of bull.

hope4truth said...

I am going out in my garden the sun is shining but the clouds are many so going to make the most of a bit of sun see you all later xxx

Zodiac said...

H4T,

Have a lovely time in the farden. I am off to the jitchen to make breakfast.

Zodiac x.

hope4truth said...

Zodiac LOL

My Garden is not that big but I have a Jitchen xxx

hope4truth said...

Jenna

Just read your post on Trolls site and I know troll does not like me talking about the McCans on there so as you read here often thought I would reply.

Oh BTW loved your description of me very funny did it take you along time or am I that obvious?

Not all of us agree on here I for instance do not want the McCanns to go to jail for neglect (sorry about the word neglect I know you dont like it but if you can give me a better definition of what to call two parents who leave 3 small children alone night after night in an unlocked room while they have dinner with the other neglectful members of thier group I would be glad to rephrase)...

If there was an accident and they have covered it up I still dont want them to go to jail (it breaks my heart to think of Kate being taken from her twins) as a Mother I cant bear the thought of being parted from my children.

Oh and that is not because I am a perfect parent or would try and convince anyone that I am it is beacuse I love them so much and every day is special.

You think that we are worried in fact one comment you made is very true.....How does the saying go "He who protests too much". Yes and dont the McCanns protest all the time through CM every negative is in fact a positive the very reason I dont believe them.

Kate and Gerry have lots of support Maddie has none and excuse me but a 3 year old child or any age child deserves the truth not a lot to ask for is it?

This is a blog the DX closed and we came here or Alsabellas (or in fact had already been here at the same time) there is a very good blog you can join (if you are not already a member)to have your say and there is nothing wrong with debate...

Someone comented about me driffting last night as I was looking for pot. I found your description funny but I do hope like brave Anon you were not implying that I take drugs? Because that would not be a good thing to imply about me at all.

Maybe I protest to much but if that is what you were implying go careful because that would not be a wise thing to do.

Bang on with the Chocolate though but I do talk about it alot so can see where you are comming from there.

Take care Jenna I am not evil or nasty but I do belive when people try and shut you up and spin that there is something not right and all children are far more important thatn their parents mine included x

marga said...

Morning all,

It's the first time I read this article and have tried to "forget" all the developments in the case since then.

IMO it was written aimed at giving the world a perfect picture of their family. Everything is perfect here except of course Kate's difficulty in getting pregnant which can also raise sympathy and simultaneously lead people to overvalue her effort and its result: Madeleine as sth so precious ( should be) that someone could die for protecting.

Apart from this, their family life before Madeleine disappeared had been all pink as the adjectives and the nouns carefully chosen to portray the family album.e.g. love,protection,support,fantastic,etc.
Even Maddie's linguistic skills and her personality were also the ones of a mature child as if we all parents didn't know that all children have sometimes their tantrums especially when more than one are together.

Another thing that "could " convince me was their attitude as parents because of the fun they had together with the children when holydaying. No need to put them in the creche or use a babysitter.Their time must have been fantastic.
To conclude: only the "abductor" is to blame we should keep doing so.

This article was released some days before the turning point caused by the alleged dogs discoveries and the results of the forensics. Murat's garden was also searched by that time and there must be a connection.

Viv asks if we have an idea concerning the timing. Honestly I think that only the PJ and the 3 arguidos can have a precise one.

All we have can be regarded as speculation and gut feelings. But I trust the PJ and applaud their work, intelligence and effort in this case so that the truth can be found and justice for this innocent girl served in spite of all the lack in cooperating with the police and defamation of the police methods.

isis said...

Morning all , the one thing taht has always bothered me is how jane tanner did not hear kates screams on finding madeleine missing??

Wizard said...

Todays 'People' tell us the pj will not be staying or long.

30 March 2008
COPS' 3-DAY TAPAS QUIZ
Maddie visit cut short
By Marc Baker
Cops making a last-ditch bid to solve the Maddie McCann mystery will spend only THREE DAYS quizzing the Tapas Seven.

Portuguese detectives fly to Britain on April 7 to question the friends of the missing tot's parents Kate and Gerry.

It was thought they would spend up to two months painstakingly seeking new details from the group who were with the McCanns at a Praia da Luz tapas bar when Madeleine vanished last May 3.

But chief investigator Paulo Rebelo wants the inquiries wrapped up in time for his team to return home on April 11.

Wizard said...

Hi Isis,

It is understood that o'Brien did not return to Tapis Bar until 10.15 so he would also have been in appartment 5B. Strange he did not hear anything as well.

isis said...

Morning Wizard, these two are of special intrest i imagine, espescially o brien as he is unslibied for some length of time. Im off now as i have a bigger mystery to solve in my house this am.... who took the last of my crunchie easter egg !!

2345 said...

Sunday Telegraph - 23 March.

"Meet the Frankenkinder generation"

Modern life is leaving children unfit for school, reveals a new report. No wonder, says Lucy Cavendish. They are overindulged, overstimulated - and underparented.

We are breeding a generation of Frankenkinder. Coined in the US, the term refers to the children of the financially rich but time-poor. This generation of parents is trying to buy its' children off, doing backflips so as not to disappoint them. But whatever parents give, it's never enough and the children they are raising are turning into monsters.

Cambridge University report - classroom discipline is deteriorating - exposure to TV, video games and computers is damaging children's development, leaving them unprepared for full-time education. Some are unable to hold a knife and fork - or use the loo. It's a dangerous time to be young.

Samantha Smythe's Modern Family Journal by Lcy Cavendish (Michael Joseph £6.99) available 27 March.

2345 said...

Apologies - typo - last para - Lucy Cavendish.

Above is extract of interesting article.

marga said...

2345,

interesting article.
Unfortunately parents try to compensate their absence by giving their children materialism instead of education and values. I can see that among my pupils.

marga said...

2345, BTW

have you read the last Time magazine's article about Br youth? If so, and if you don't mind I would like to know your take.

marga said...

Viv, sorry to ask it here but it's really interesting for me to know a British point of view on the matter. Hope you don't mind.
Tx

Gina said...

Good Morning Viv and all,

Reading this article it just seems to be that she is trying to paint the picture of normality after being severely criticised for what appear to be lack of emotion. Then there is JT story. If the McCanns had not given Madeleine sedatives I find it very strange how an abductor lifted her from her bed without her waking and screaming the place down, unless he drugged her too. To be honest the only story that I would be interested in hearing right now would be one told by Madeleine.

HOPE, When you come out of your farden, this is for you, save it to save us all going crazy again next time
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

hope4truth said...

Gina

Thanks so much for that. I will mark it as a favorite and never be confused again...

My Farden is really warm but clouds are comming over and I need to clean out my Daughters Hampster (and it is not because they are spoiled and I dont think they should do it, it is because I will do it in about 10 minutes and they will take an hour and get sawdust everywhere) and as much as they should be encouraged to take responisbility I hate sawdust... Rotastak Palace he lives in takes forever to get it apart but I have a good system... Add it has to be done outside before it rains (and as I live in England there is a damn good chance it will)....

See you later thanks for your TIME (groan) xxx

Gina said...

Hope I am glad my Hamster days are over. Nice day here so off now into my farden to hick the peeds out of the flower beds ;-)

marga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
marga said...

marga said...
30 March 2008
COPS' 3-DAY TAPAS QUIZ
Maddie visit cut short
By Marc Baker
Cops making a last-ditch bid to solve the Maddie McCann mystery will spend only THREE DAYS quizzing the Tapas Seven.
_____________

Only THREE DAYS is the time the PJ need. So what? They know what to do and how much time they need.

Lieutenant Columbo is known for his "just one more question" and was successful in solving crimes
:-))
Time and quantity sometimes means nothing.

I'm glad that finally the PJ is arriving. That's another step forward. Now it is in British soil, no language barrier and everything being recorded. If the Tapas want to cooperate they have this opportunity and should be glad for it.

Sunday, 30 March 2008 12:42:00 o'clock BST

Bye for now!

Joe said...

Hello Viv and all posters. A bit of a struggle to get over the hour going forward, my mind is ready but the body is an hour late.

Why do the pros not find it suspicious that allegedly the McCanns have stated, via their lawyers, that they will not be co-operating with the PJ in the possible forthcoming interviews? This puzzles me as the questions will be put by the British Police. So what is the problem then? Its the Pros who rant about the PJ and use it as an excuse,not even now will the McCanns co-operate.

Joe said...

If I might add this question to my post as well. At what point if, and will the British Police intervene to possibly compel the McCanns under British Law to turn up at a Police station to answer questions re the disappearance of a British subject,i.e. their daughter? Surely the Police have a duty to look into her disappearance as she is still missing? Or am I just naive?

hope4truth said...

Hello Joe

Sorry are you male or female??? Not that it makes much diffrence just being nosey...

If I were a member of the tapas I would be mortified to think that the public thought I would not want to help by answering questions. How can you not answer questions when they are about a missing 3 year old girl?

Wach member of that shameful neglectful group should be on their knees thanking god that it was not their child that was taken that night because if she really was taken then it could have been anyone of them.

To not answer questions implys guilt and to not answer questions truthfuly well if a child is less important than your own reputation shame on you live with your lies but your life will not be carefree ever again...

Maybe I am miss judging maybe she was taken and they will all tell the truth if the McCanns are inocent there can be no DNA, Phone Records, Computer evidence etc...

I hope JT clears up the mess she has caused changing the direction the abductor was going in, not seeing his face and then recognising tooth man has made them look more guilty. Maybe she really thought she had been abdcuted and the Police were not taking it seriously enough for her so she thought she could help?

Truth and nothing but the truth starting with the neglect and on from there...

I dont like this missing hour xxx

Joe said...

Hello Hope4truth,
I am all male and vastly outnumbered on this forum, not that I mind as I will be happy to discuss the topic with all the ladies here.

Yes you are right in your assessment and I note on the other forum that 3 days is the amount of time for questioning, and they suggest its just to tidy up the case, followed by the lifting of Arguido status.

Coming back to my earlier post, its like the McCanns arte using British Law to hide behind, as well as Arguido status, yet the law does not appear to be helping Madeline?

Cláudia said...

Viv, are you around?

Anonymous said...

Hope,
I was not implying that you take drugs.

Only that I personally would need to be on something, in order to swallow the amount of rubbish that is posted here daily..

lizzy said...

2345,
Interesting article and its sad but true that a lot of parents shower their children with lots of material things ie; playstations, computers anything to keep them occupied, few give what is important which is their time. That is more important than all of these games,toys etc.Family life is not the same as when I grew up where things were done as a family, all sitting down together to eat and discuss events of the day, taken out by parents, holiday as a family ,all doing things together, not todays idea that some parents have of putting their children in a creche where they are entertained by others ,to enable them to enjoy themselves without their children.Not all parents do this obviously but the facts are that some do. Parents should put their childrens welfare and interests before thier own in my opinion. Chidlren brought up in a proper family enviroment where these values are held in my opinion grow up much more secure and feeling valued and cared for. Lizzy

Zodiac said...

However long the PJ are here will be however long they feel is the right length of time. They can always come back. Or perhaps have others brought to them! As far as the UK papers go I read with a huge pinch of salt. I am sure at some point in time the PJ will make a live annoucement on the next steps, I will wait for that.

H4T,

I tis pouring with rain here today, no chance of doing any fardening. Have family coming for dinner, have to go and set the sining table. xxx

hope4truth said...

Joe

You brave man LOL

If Madeleine had been in England when all this happend I believe Gerry and Kate would have been in a lot more trouble than they are now. You cant pick and choose when it is safe to leave children alone it is never safe.

Madeleine is the victim and the police should be investigating why she is missing or are children unimportant?

I am sick of the spin who needs a good image when your child is missing?

hope4truth said...

Zodiac

LOL

It is still sunny here so off out into the farden again enjoy your lunch x

Zodiac said...

Anon 13.24pm,

What do you take to swallow the amount of rubbish posted where you do swallow it.

Two spoons of gullible three times daily, administered by your family Doc.

hope4truth said...

Anon

Right thank you.

Joe said...

Hope4truth,

Thank you, when some of the ladies go at it with the verbal on the blogs I stay well out of it. I know my limitations. I used to post a bit on the DX and that was very nasty art times but never on the more aggressive forums.

Zodiac said...

H4T,

Enjoy the sun, now you are rubbing it in like Gina! I am soooo jealous.

Cláudia said...

Hh my, the child neglect defenders on the House of Filth think that Alsabella has been pulled and sued! lololololol This is hilarious! I just can't wait!

hope4truth said...

Zodiac

LOL It is cold though xxx

See you all later xxx

2345 said...

Where were Paul Rebelo's comments reported and by whom ?

Last Portuguese news on Alsa's blog was that PJ were preparing for at least a two month stay, longer if required, due to arrive mid March.

There followed troll taunting ... have they arrived he he he ?? !!!

DE's front page announcement of 'no evidence' was swiftly followed by Rosiepops pronouncement that McCanns' arguido status was being lifted on llth April - 'insider' info.

CM's PR is somewhat at odds with
news released in Portugal and given to us by Alsa.

I only trust direct sourced info., especially where PJ are concerned. Alsa's blog has been 'frozen'.

PJ were definitely preparing for lengthy stay for re-questioning ... absolutely no rush to get it 'wrapped up' by 11th April. This date is twice mentioned by McCann mechanics.



CM & Rosiepops are both McCann mechanics - 11th April was date given for lifting of arguido status

hope4truth said...

Joe

A man who knows his limitations you are wise indeed...

I am glad the DX is no more all I want is the truth for a 3 year old child nothing more...

I am off see you later x

2345 said...

claudia,

Good to see you .... the question is why the need to silence Alsa and send out misinformation ?

The need to control truth emerging from Portugal continues along with Team McCann's need to influence/control public opinion.

Please give Alsa my best wishes and I know many look forward to her return.

Cláudia said...

2345, this is not a conspiracy theory. Alsa hasn't been pulled, silenced, 'frozen', etc. I'll certainly pass your regards to her. But you're wrong. She will be back soon, hopefully. She just has some business to take care of, that's all. But I'm sure it's going to worth the wait.

Zodiac said...

Hi Claudia,

Thanks for the info regarding Alsabella. I will wait patiently, please tell her I say hello and look forward to hearing from her again.

Cláudia said...

Hi, zodiac. She's fine but hasn't been able to come online. I'll tell her you said Hi. :-) Thanks, Zodiac.

viv said...

Hello all

Thanks for some really interesting thoughts which I have just read.

As Hope points out Kate is anxious to say what a great time Madeleine had been having..but not with her and Gerry.

But what I find the most sinister of all about this is how she claims Madeleine said she had such a lovely day. I think it is very strange indeed that Kate tells us nothing at all of what Madeleine was doing on that last day...so that she was apparently having such a wonderful time..

Why mention Madeleine suffering with colic and crying 18 hours a day, this sounds quite incredible to me. The baby would have been ill with exhuastion. It is an extreme example of Kate trying to suggest a bond with Madeleine.

Wizard mentions her collapsing in a heap and assuming the worse in spite of Madeleine having run off before for 30 minutes and collapsing in a heap of hysterics. I entirely agree with HOpe and Wizard, this is not what a parent would do. You would not care how negligent you had been, you would get an adrenaline rush and start searching for your child and telling everyone she is missing regardless of your own bad behaviour.

As to the timing, reports were starting to leak in July that PJ were not on their side and I believe Gerry had written contact was more formal and less informative by this stage.

Why did she want this in all UK's Sunday papers..because Gerry thought that was appropriate, I believe. Clarence himself used to target the Sunday papers in particular.

How did Jane look out of her window and see no one was sitting at the TAPAS bar any longer. We already know the view was obscured. More to the point how did she and O'Brien apparently miss the melee that was going on outside? Her account is just simply incredible. Kate and Gerry later stated they left the patio door open to go to the rear of the apartment to let themselves in. On Jane's account she must have been walking around to the front when she saw bundleman.

hope4truth said...

Hello Viv

When I watched the panorama program I thought it was odd that JT had to walk past the stairs leading to the Mccann's apt to get to hers round the back. I thought at the time it ment her child was in even greater danger as she was round the back and had no view at all...

But now I understand there were two doors front and back it is even more dangerous to have left the children never mind and abductor breaking in through a window they could have walked in the front door...

They can spin it all they like the neglect was wrong and whatever happend this lack of basic care shows them to be the people they are.

IF other parents do this then grow up and put your children first you chose to have them so enjoy them dont just leave them when it suits you.

Cláudia said...

Hi, Viv!
I'm glad I caught you, hun.
I'm going to ask you a huge favour. It's not urgent. You don't have to do it in a hurry and I know it's going to take time. But if you could, I would like you to start compiling all posts you received that you consider xenophobic; threatning (identity exposure, personal threats, sueing threats, etc); and all comments you consider offensive and libellous towards the PJ. I know it's a huge favour. Please? :-)

Cláudia said...

P.S: Viv, I forgot to tell you, offensive and lunatic posts don't interest me. Neither do those posts made by that sick pervert. I'm sure you have taken care of it.

hope4truth said...

Claudia (Hello)

Blimey she will be gone for hours LOL xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hope

Yes there were patio doors at the rear and a front door with a proper yale lock at the front. The front also looks straight on to a car park. So, if Madeleine had been abducted out of the front she would have been put straight into a waiting car and Jane would not have seen any man walking off - it is just absurd.

Why would Jane not have used the patio door at the rear like Kate and Gerry? Because then she would have just turned left right by Gerry and Wilkins and would not have been able to see bundleman as she describes. It is pathetic and utterly contrived. Rosie bleats on about borders not being sealed but according to the McCanns prime witness the abductor did not even have a car to go racing off to Huelva with Madeleine. It seems to me even the McCanns start to rubbish Jane's account where she did not remember this bundle that might have been a child was actually a child and start describing Madeleine's pyjamas until months later. As many people have stated why do the McCanns not suspect Tanner and O'Brien themselves? This would be an obvious concern to most parents!

Viv x

viv said...

Hi Claudia

emailing you

Viv x

eurekamano said...

Hi, do we really know what has happened to Alsa's blog site. When 3As was attacked (overwhelmed) they moved it to another more secure server. I would think Alsa would do the same unless she has 'unplugged' for personal reasons... Anyone?

Cláudia said...

Hi, Hope.

Viv, I'll check it in a minute, darling.

Cláudia said...

Viv, THANK YOU, darling.
I've read your e-mail and replied. But I forgot to tell you something and so I'm sending you another one! lolol
xxxx

eurekamano said...

Hi, sorry now have read Claudia's post re Alsa, and her need to unplug temporarlily while she attends to some other business.

Portuguese press, Mail, and the NOW, have confirmed that PJ will definiteky be here a week on Monday, 7 April. Two senior inspectors, and Paulo Ribelo will be met by Leicestershire Police.(3As). It is reported that the parents mey be interviewed in due course if the questioning suggests that it will aid the criminal investigation.

Things are moving.

hope4truth said...

Although Anons get right on my very last nerve I have just read on another blog that JT apartment was behind G&K...

In which case it makes them totally iresponible parents who had no way of seeing their apartment (although you could not see the front ones clarly either)they must be thanking their lucky start they did not loose their child as it would have been like having dinner in the next streets garden in their case...

This lot are Dr's and profesional people god help their children they dont stand a chance unless they learn how to be real parents PDQ...

hope4truth said...

Oh NO I am at it again obviously I ment Lucky Stars and clearly not clarly CM was not their that night was he!!!!

Cláudia said...

Ok, Viv, I've sent you my other reply. This time, I didn't forget anything! lolol I guess! lolol

Anonymous said...

For a mother, full grown Kate McCann has a serious problem with placing her personal desires and whims over the critical needs of her growing children.

Our third child had colic and one of the graces of motherhood is discovering that mum's bread doesn't have to be toasted or buttered and that personal holiday's can be put on hold.

The inability to deny oneself extras is a sign of gluttony.

Gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins.

Alcoholism is also a form of gluttony.

It is not enough to treat alcoholism without treating the underlying cause.

viv said...

Claudia

Happy reading hun

Luv you
Viv x

viv said...

Anon

That was a very interesting post and I entirely agree with your comment you cannot just treat the alcoholism you have to take first steps to deal with that and then seek to treat the underlying cause for that addiction. There is always a reason. I know this from my work with offenders who had serious alcohol, drug and mental health problems, inextricably linked. The root cause generally starts in their childhood, children who have been neglected and abused in other ways. Very sad. All children deserve a decent chance in life without the burder of growing up with what their parents inflicted upon them.

Kate and Gerry McCann have always been heavy alcohol users.

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, happy reading? I don't think so, hun! lololol
I think I'll have to give up sleeping for some weeks! lolol I'll have to choose the most self explanatory ones. After all, tomorrow I'm going back to my normal schedule! :-)

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

there was a certain irony in what I said LOL.

Some are very clear! Who would write such things!

Luv Viv x

2345 said...

Claudia,

Many thanks .... IT whizz on 3 A's has managed to contact her.

anon (?) who posted one down and two to go spoke out of turn !!

viv said...

THE IMPOSSIBLE ABDUCTION...


McCann family reverse story over break-in 'evidence'
By Shane Hickey
Thursday October 25 2007


THE spokesman for the family of Madeleine McCann has reversed a statement made in the early days of the search for the missing child.


Speaking to RTE's 'Prime Time', Clarence Mitchell said she could "easily" have been kidnapped by an abductor who did not leave the trail of a break-in.

However, in the early part of the hunt, friends and family members told journalists that the shutter on the apartment where the McCanns were staying had been broken.

Mr Mitchell made his comments when questioned by a 'Prime Time' team in a report on the disappearance to be screened tomorrow. "There was no evidence of a break-in," said Mr Mitchell.

"I'm not going into the detail, but I can say that Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that somebody got into the apartment and took Madeleine out the window as their means of escape, and to do that they did not necessarily have to tamper with anything. They got out of the window fairly easily."

Of the criticism that the McCanns left their children by themselves on four evenings while they went for dinner, Mr Mitchell said there was a cultural difference between Britain and Portugal.

"It is a British approach to get your children washed, bathed and in bed early in the evening if you can so you can have something of the evening to yourself. That is the British way of doing things. It doesn't mean it's wrong. It doesn't mean it's right," he said.

"Nobody feels more guilty than Gerry and Kate over the decision they took jointly to leave their children in that position that night. And they will never forgive themselves. They've said this often.

"Nobody feels more guilty than they that Madeleine was alone when she was taken. However, they felt they had a perfectly proper system of checking (her in place)."

- Shane Hickey

*

Note: On Martin Brunt's documentary 'The Mystery of Madeleine McCann, aired on 24 December 2007, Prof David Barclay, one of Britain's top forensic consultants said: "I think it's impossible for somebody to get in and out, through that window without leaving a forensic trace. Apart from anything else, the window sills in that area are covered in green lichen. The minute you try and scrape over the window sills you would have left marks and we know that the scenes of crime lady, the next morning, was looking for exactly that."

Interestingly, Clarence Mitchell's statement about the McCanns reversal of their 'break in' story, came one week after Dispatches aired the documentary 'Searching For Madeleine' on 18 October 2007. In that documentary, it was effectively proved that there was no way anybody could break into the apartment and leave no forensic trace or damage to the lightweight aluminium shutters, which are covered with a fine coating of polyurethane paint which marks extremely easily.

They also tested the thumb prints, that showed up under the red dust of the forensic fingerprint powder, and proved the prints came from somebody moving the shutter from inside the apartment.

Again, Prof Dave Barclay said: "We must be very careful that we're not saying this is actually staging but it's difficult to see how anybody could have interefered with those shutters, from outside, without leaving some trace. In fact, having looked at them, I think it's almost impossible."

Cláudia said...

Are you sure that's true, 2345? I wouldn't.

hope4truth said...

Viv

I have never understood why an abductor would climb out of a window???

If the door was open why climb out of a window with a child in your arms it would be imposible...

Then nothing about this sad case rings true ... x

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I cannot understand why an abductor would climb out of a window with a child either, why not choose the door. In any case there was no forensic trace of any scrape marks on the lichen and as Professor Barclay says we must be careful not to say this was staging (fear of libel)but very clearly messing with the shutters from the inside, that is what it was.

Some idiot earlier stated apartment 5b is behind the McCanns which is completely impossible and in fact laughable given the McCanns had a front and a back!! Below confirms, as I correctly stated, they are next door to each other and this person had the cheek to call me THICK!
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

"There is also the concern that, if Tanner's sighting was valid, how could she not have noticed, and reported, that the McCanns' bedroom shutter and window were wide open, when she returned to her own apartment which was next door. If you look at the pictures in the Apartment 5A section, you will see that the windows and shutters of 5A and 5B, Tanner's apartment, are right next to each other. Indeed, from the outside they are so close they appear to be for the one apartment."

nancy said...

Hello Viv, Claudia and everyone!

I have just read the lead article and Kate McCann's statement. I hadn't read all her words before. I cannot believe Kate's statement (mentioned a few times by others on here today )that "It is important not to lose sight of the fact that we haven't committed a crime - somebody else has....." - I find that a really self serving statement which puts the onus of responsibility on someone else rather than on themselves. She should not lose sight of the fact that it was she and Gerry's decision to leave their children that instigated any possibility of someone taking Madeleine. With this statement, possibly dictated to her by Gerry, she is attempting to brainwash the public into believing they are entirely innocent in all this. To my mind she definitely showed signs of self denial when she said that.

2345 said...

Felicity,

Re: Impossible Abduction.

The article has reminded me of something I saw ages ago .... a large photograph in DE of a forensic specialist in top to toe protective white gear (same as police wore in photos of them examining Murat's garden) taking either fingerprints/forensic evidence on the outside of the infamous shutter.

I've got the article on file, I'll look up date when I have time. I took legal advice because of 'monkey's threats of libel when I first began to comment on DE. As advised, I've always kept hard copy of anything and everything I comment on.

I expect police found Gerry's fingerprints on the shutters as independent witness found him fiddling with them didn't he ?

Hardly surprising McCann lawyers have told Prosecutor they will NOT co-operate with re-questioning !!!

Re-reading all news articles and reports - google - made me wonder how much more damning evidence PJ have on file since September. They stated their intention was to arrest McCanns on 7 September, they had enough evidence then. The mind boggles ... I'm sure case would have been concluded to Police satisfaction months ago, but for political interference.

viv said...

Hope

I have tried repeatedly to respond to your email address given and each time the message that apparently gets sent comes up completely blank. I never have this trouble with anyone else.

I will not be bothering to try again, I am afraid.

hope4truth said...

Viv

How strange???

I have replied...

xxx

nancy said...

The escape through the window theory is complete nonsense in my opinion - he would have had to take the chance of somebody walking by at the time - the windows by what I've seen in videos are not that big, similar to what I have here in Spain, and are usually fairly high up too.So it would have taken Houdini to attempt to climb through the window holding a sleeping child of 4 without waking her (unless she was drugged) without someone helping from the outside and JT insists he was alone. The window theory is an absolute non-starter I'm afraid.

2345 said...

Anonymouse,

What charming employees McCanns' defence team recruit, foul mouthed forum monkeys as well as fraudulent, corrupt Metado 3, intimidating innocent people and olice witnesses. I copied every article on Alsa's blog - for legal reasons.

Thugs and outlaws versus the Police .....

So much for McCanns' comment to Times

nancy said...

2345

The more I read of your opinion about political interference the more it all seems to add up. I notice that Kate said in the article that they have 'strong' friends! Strange word to use but I would imagine she is including the medical profession, as well as their masonic links and political connections; she didn't mention family, even though all of whom rushed round to their defence from the very start!

I think they will be very stupid to refuse to answer the police questions because it will only serve to convince those who have been on the fence throughout all of this of their guilt, especially the newspapers!

2345 said...

Nancy,

I'm in a rush and don't know whether Kate made the comment you refer to before or after cadavers arrived and forensics were removed.
News of their arrival must have caused absolute panic and alarm. Neglect is the least of McCanns concerns in this case and is certainly the lesser of the evils Police have had to deal with in this sordid case.

2345 said...

Anonymouse,

Checked my archives ... article confirms Viv's absolutely right, with or with claudia's backing.

isis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Zodiac said...

Viv,

Having just read your posts re: Impossible Abduction it just re-inforces my belief there was no abduction. The statement by CM regarding the cultural difference between Portugal and Britain is totally unacceptable. The more I read regarding these neglectful parents the more guilty they look. IMO. I hope the PJ have more than DNA evidence, I hope the Tapas lot get a back bone and start thinking for themselves and their own futures. I am sure the public will be more considerate towards any of the Tapas lot that actually start to help with the investigation. How anyone can think they can control a live ongoing investgation is really quite ridiculous. Then again how any parent can leave their 3 children home alone and consider themselves responsible parents is equally ridiculous, in fact it is ludicrous.

viv said...

Thanks 2345

I have seen the pic of the forensics lady in the white suit dusting the shutters..as you say the only prints she would have found would be Gerry's!

Nancy

Yes it was awful for Kate to make that self-serving statement and this is what the Pros repeatedly trot out isnt it..they did not commit any crime, it was the (imaginary) evil pervert who took Maddie. Just exactly the same as the Mum in Goa..serious parental neglect, but for that neglect...

No matter what Gerry dictates to Kate to trot out to the public, they did commit a very serious crime in leaving their tiny children like that. They say they made regular checks but on their own account Gerry checked at 9.05 and Kate at 10.05 during those checks Madeleine gets abducted..tell it to the fairies!

It is all just a bit too stage managed to be true, not to mention bizarre, at the end of the day.



Viv x

viv said...

Hiya Zodiac

I am sure the public would be very forgiving to the TAPAS and not want them dealt with for the neglect if, they started to be more honest about what happened to little Madeleine. The thing is though they have committed some very serious crimes themselves now in seeking to assist offenders and pervert the course of justice. Even so, they would be greatly admired for coming clean.

Viv x

viv said...

of course I did not mean during their checks they claim Maddie got abducted I meant in between them!

but actually according to Tanner, Gerry was standing right outside as this creepy man calmly walked right on by with Maddie. If it was not so utterly sad it would be like a comedy film. Some sick satire at any rate!

madge said...

The thing i cannot believe is that Social Services have never publically denounced the Tapas group behaviour. It seems to be agreed by almost everyone except the Mccanns that it was neglect. My conclusion must therefore be that they are going to be charged with a much greater offence. I think that 3 days is a suggestion that that is all they need. Case in the bag.

hope4truth said...

Anon

Calm down dear we dont care...

You do sound rather desprate though havent read all of your rant but if I wanted to know about Beachy or whoever I would go to the 3as and have a look myself...

madge said...

All based on hearsay i'm afraid. If the tapas group were at chaplins AND she was not seen on the 3rd then if her accident happened on 2nd then they would have to hide it and all agree to hide it or at least those who knew. How could they explain their daughter having an accident whilst they were that distance away, especially if she had been crying for hours ( possibly injured).

hope4truth said...

Bloody Hell Viv

Now I think I am seeing things LOL x

2345 said...

nancy,

Ironside gave me links to fctual reports last September - google.
All articles and news highlights efficiency of PJ & Leicester Police. Here we are nearly seven months later with Police stuck at square one.

There's only one logical answer - PJ had evidence to arrest McCanns nearly seven months ago - politicians stopped it. PJ have been deprived critical evidence since last September, computer, diary and cuddle cat. Leicester Police had FSS results warranting immediate seizure as PJ's counterparts - STILL hasn't happened - political 'prevention'.
News articles confirm PJ's frustration at unnecessary delays with FSS results - political interference. Ditto Rogatory Letters, Home Office lied to wizard in response to e-mail enquiry. PJ have been due to arrive for at least two months since beginning of March. No news of arrival despite it being in public's interest to be informed.

McCanns laws told Prosecutor they will NOT co-operate or answer questions. Word on 3 A's one of Tapas group finds date for requestioning 'inconvenient'. This shows date has not yet been agreed - political/legal game playing - delaying tactics.

DE proclaimed 'no evidence' - front page, within a day Rosiepops proclaimed arguid status will be lifted on 11th April.

Eddie & Keela solved the 'mystery of Madeleine's disappearance last July, confirmed by FSS results released by Leicester Police - 7 September. PJ & Leicester Police have been rendered absolutely powerless despite damning evidence.
This confirms the political intervention at Gerry's request on day one is still very much in force.

The case has become unnecessarily protracted and complicated because politicians are protecting their reputations as well as the McCanns.

Aim has always been to override the TRUTH, damning forensics and evidenced based trial/conviction.
Means used are media manipulation, swaying public opinion, i.e. there is 'no evidence' - to overrule the Police and the dossier of evidence.

Politicians/CM & McCanns lawyers have been dictating terms from day one - not the Police - thwarted every step of the way.

Team McCann continually misinform British public to undermine Police - British & Portuguese and their dossier of evidence. DE's front page apology was designed for a purpose; to implant 'no evidence' in the public's mind, to grossly undermine two Police forces. Nothing exists to support a claim for damages .... a dossier of evidence exists in two Police forces in two countries to PROVE otherwise.

Interestingly, those trying to access articles on Alsa's blog are redirected and diverted to DE's Forum. Alsa's blog is being subjected to gross misrepresenation

DE has always been CM's favoured media manipulator in the political strategy.

viv said...

Hiya Madge

The Social Services will never publically comment on a case concerning children like this. The likelihood is that they would have held a case conference and determined how they could best protect the twins but this would never be made public.

You are quite right it was never the intention to charge them with this but the far more serious offences they committed. They simply used their own neglect to try and suggest how Madeleine could have been abducted. The neglect gives us a clear indication of what truly rotten parents they are.

Zodiac said...

Hi Viv,

It does appear that the Tapas 7 could have committed serious crimes and I agree justice would have to be done regarding any crimes. I just think if they have they should come clean and in doing so the public would probably, as you say, admire them for that. I cannot understand how anyone would not make themselves available for questioning. CM has harped on how the Tapas lot want the PJ to come to the UK and question them, yet if it is true what the 3 A's is reporting that one is being difficult that is an utter disgrace. How anyone can place themselves in the hands of another, as it seems with the so called pact is just plain stupid. I would trust no one, I would tell everything I know, I would be protecting my and my loved ones own interests. IMO. When you read interviews that the McC's have given they are just full of inconsistencies, therefore IMO unbelievable. The truth is not complicated, the truth is not hard to understand. IMO. BBFN.

viv said...

Hiya Zodiac

I really do agree with you there. This case is nowhere near as complex as people try and make out. Sometimes it is helpful to just stick to the pertinent facts!


Guilt parents, friends covering up, inconsistent lies..they are a pathetic bunch to think their lies were going to actually work!

2345 said...

madge,

Unfortunately for Madeleine, the information released by Leicester Police confirms no 'ordinary' accident or mishap.

Specifically " .... some DNA samples found related to cerebral fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull".

Cererbrospinal fluid is only released in profound traumatic injury of the type indicated by FSS.

Police know Madeleine was definitely not hospitalized with life threatening injury which, in turn, confirms FATALITY.

Results given commence ... "an early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... "
Two concurrent life threatening injuries ... in medical terms quite unique in a 3 year old child

isis said...

Viv, deleted my own post as it seemed to be drawing the trolls. Did you get a chance to watch the prime time program yet?

madge said...

Hi Viv

Good to meet.
I just feel it would be proper for Social Services to publically say that leaving children unattended in this manner is wrong. Clarence feels it is ok to say "oh everyone does it, they have committed no crime" etc. Gerry too. you would think it would be the job of SS to say hold on no you cannot do that, to speak up for the enxt child whos parents believe it is ok. Sorry to bang on but it seems no one is publically standing up for what is right (or wrong). It seems to be a reaonably well thought out idea. Yes let people know indirectly that Madeleine has gone because of our neglect. That way they are not thinking about what else could possibly have happened. When people are saying " but she would be here if they had not gone out that night" they are thinking of that as the crime. That is what they are focusing on. Is that what they want? The reality is that there is a possibility that Madeleine would not be alive even if they had stayed in that night. Sorry to waffle.

hope4truth said...

Am I Hallucinating or are some people really that sad???

LittleGreyCell said...

HELLO HOPE!

HOW ARE YOU?

2345 said...

Felicity,

All those who decided not to come clean on 3rd May are less likely to do so the longer it continues, IMHO. Wasting police time for nearly eleven months and perverting the course of justice are chargeable offences and would be taken into consideration on top of neglect.

Political and medical 'old boy network' will finish the job they started on 3 May. To appear stainless and blameless in the eyes of the public - globally - silencing two Police forces and dossier of evidence in the process.

There are many bigger reputations on the line than the McCanns ... politicians as well as the public in many other countries are watching. Patriot Games ... aim is definitely to shift the blame on to the Police - hence forum monkeys PJ bashing from day one.

As Alsabella wisely pointed out it's the attitude of all criminals.

Eddie & Keela confirmed PJ's wisdom and intelligence ... their suspicions were well founded and shown to be correct. Findings were to the liking of politically connected medico's.

I wonder how many elderly people could have received long awaited NHS treatment for blindness prevention etc. with taxpayers money which has spent on this case.

Alsabella said last October costs to the Portuguese was over 1.5 m euros. The £1.3 m Funds raised under false pretences has been used to undermine the Police every step of the way.

2345 said...

Typo - Eddie & Keela - findings were NOT to the liking.

viv said...

Hiya 2345

I think the total costs of this investigation to both the Portuguese and British taxpayers will in fact be far higher than the figures you suggest and the intense efforts to frustrate police enquiries will also be taken into account by the sentencing judge at the end of the day.

Some criminal investigations are very expensive to taxpayers, but law, order, decency, justice, including little Madeleine are things that are worth paying for, no matter what. I just feel truly sorry the Portuguese have been put to such terrific costs, trouble and even serious insult for two British criminals.

madge said...

What has so wound Anon up? Has someone just said something close to the truth?

2345 said...

Anonymouse,

The question is why were PJ prevented from arresting McCanns on 7 September as intended ?

British Government has never before intervened in judicial processes on behalf of prime suspects in their child's death and disappearance.

The source of Beachy's report was Portugal - Portuguese Judiciary - posted months ago by tylersmum.

Viv (and tylersmum) have given full legal explanations of suspects right to remain silent and the implications in Court.

Madeleine's case is extremely straightforward - the only problems are political/legal strategic 'game playing' - intentional deferral.

The McCanns told Times & Telegraph last September that they were returning to England, appointing lawyers to clear their names.

They lied about this .... in lieu of taking the right legal course, Metado 3 were hand picked to disrupt Police and legal procedures.

The McCanns are a public menace, a liability to Portuguese & British taxpayers.

2345 said...

Anonymouse,

Political intervention in McCanns case is sending out entirely the wrong message to others.

Shannon Matthews would have been found and taken from her Uncle's flat on day one HAD her entirely family not decided to withhold his existence, names(s) and address from the Police. As a result, British taxpayers are footing the multi million pound totally unnecessary search costs. This child family kept their mouths firmly shut despite the Uncle fitting the profile given to them by the police - a male known to her, probably living alone. The Police confirmed in their statement that the Uncle had confesssed to a scam in the hope of getting £1 m. like the McCanns.

For political reasons, the case has been whitewashed in the press, CM style.

2345 said...

Anonymouse,

Go and get a proper job ... you're boring.

2345 said...

Anonymouse,

Who needs a blog when CDs are safest means of storage ?? !!!

LittleGreyCell said...

Hey Anonymous,

Not only are you looping, you would also appear to be rather loopy - you know what they say about people who talk to themselves...

If your aim is to stop people from conversing on this blog, you're going to be disappointed. We've put up with worse things than your lunatic postings.

Why don't you go somewhere where they appreciate self-deluded posters? I can recommend a couple of sites if you're stuck.

LittleGreyCell said...

Anonymous,

You're not 'talking', you're haranguing. Viv will see what you want to say to her with one post; with repeated posts she'll just think you're completely mad and not take any notice of anything you write.

So why not give it a rest now, eh?

Di said...

Good evening all

Only looking in...

2345/All

Just saw your earlier post.

Your comment everything stopped 7 months ago... Could it have been something to do with Richard Branson and Northern Rock!!! IMO of course.


I really do believe there is a connection, Gordon Brown does not want to look a fool, let's face it he has had nothing but bad publicity since coming into office, neither does Branson hence his withdrawal.

I think, both were taken aback with just how big this case would escalate.

Some, have said Madeleine was abducted by child traffickers, IMO why not take the twins as they would be much easier to adapt to a new family and situation than Maddie, so no, I do not go along with that scenario.

Di said...

Anon.

Oh dear we have hit a nerve....

Playstation playing up is it!!!!!

Di said...

LGC

I am with you on that one!!

Di said...

Just looking back at posts.

Wish I had not bothered but then again looks like panic is setting in...

Anons

You are not doing the McCanns any favours take note!!

It is a sad time for them if this is all they can produce in their defence. IMO of course!!!!!!!!!!

2345 said...

di,

Eddie & Keela and confirmatory FSS results are the DEFINITES - have been since last July and forever will be. We've yet to learn about ALL other hard evidence on Police files, i.e, phone triangulation, further forensics.

I've been through hell and high water supporting Eddie, Keela PJ and our Police will continue to do so and dismiss all other speculation.

Imagine how easy this case would have been, but for Government interference. They're elected and paid to run the country - the results speak for themselves !!

Politicians have no right to intervene especially if they have connections to the suspects. which is in the worst possible mess

LittleGreyCell said...

Di,

You're absolutely right about the panic - and it could be the first time in history that grieving parents of a little girl are doing everything they can NOT to cooperate with the police!

hope4truth said...

LGC

Bloody Hell I go on a 10 mile round trip for a KFC and I come back to a lunatic asylum can someone please shut the door please...

What is Anon on about???

I dont even eat meat and the coleslaw was frozen so a complete waste of time (husband and youngest child dont think so)...

And Anono is still on !!!!!!!! x

How are you feeling xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

Di - should have said "abducted little girl". Perhaps I left the word out as a subconscious protest at those who write TOO much...

hope4truth said...

Di

Playstation LOL x

Di said...

2345

I agree, politians have no right to intervene if they have connections with the suspects, however, nothing will surprise me there.

I feel for the PJ, they have a mighty task ahead of them. If, it is true, that the tapas will all state no comment, then where does that leave this case!!

I find the whole situation unbelievable. I have been to Portugal many times on holiday, the Portuguese people are so friendly and love children, more importantly make you feel so welcome. I feel so sorry that this is putting a stain on their country and for all ther wrong readsons.

LittleGreyCell said...

HELLO HOPE!

(Thought the caps might be fashionable, but I don't think they suit me).

I'm well, thanks! Still doing the maple syrup thing - today, let a mug of it go cold and it was just as delicious!

I love KFC. (Well, did in the old days when I could eat lovely things). It's fish and veggies for me this evening (started the old food combining thing again, yawn. It's good for digestive disorders, so I ought to get back to it after a couple of years of eating like a normal person).

Have you watched any of the Most Haunted stuff yet? The Hubby and I have just been watching some clips on You Tube of when they go off air, supposedly showing how fake it is. I do think some of the psychics are pretty hard to take seriously, but I don't think the whole prog is fake. But who knows? Last night got exciting just after Hubby went to bed, so I had to stay up to see it through to the end. Guess where we'll be this evening?

X Little Grey Cynic

Di said...

Hope

I believe 3As are having hits as well!!!

Running scared perhaps!!!!

Wizard said...

Hi Lgc, if you like hauntings etc might I suggest the Spanish film 'The Orphanage'. Well worth a visit to the cinema in my view.

Regards - Wizard

viv said...

Hey Guys

Sorry I went for a walk. Thanks for blogging right the way through that one

I got my finger on the delete button!

Vivxxxxxxxxxxxx

Wizard said...

Would it be right to assume that anon is SweetPepperSpray from 3A's?

hope4truth said...

LGC

We havent watched any of it yet we have 10 hours sky+sd well actually Virgin+sd but that does not sound as cool and although we cant get Sky anymore I would not switch because someone from Virgin left a note on the empty sky one channel saying something like Sorry you cant view this channel any more as Sky have picked up thier ball and gone home... And it made me laugh so much I was not goint to be bullied into leaving Virgin....

Sorry back to point I am hopeing we will be able to fast forward to the good bits and not have to watch all the screaming...

I dont think you can beat Derek Acora as a Psychic the best I have seen him is when he is on a castle roof and gets taken over by a young girl and he hitches up his coat and starts to skip (no one would fake that)....

Glad the Maple Syrup is soothing I am back on it tomorrow looking forward to being healthy for a while....

Have you any idea what anon is on about???

viv said...

Hi Wizard

Checks indicate it is generally Supertroll or the equally nutty JaneGT

2345

Agreed the McCanns serious drain on taxpayers and high time they got put where they belong and stopped playing their silly games. They are not fooling any normal person who is not paid to defend them or just plain mad x

hope4truth said...

Di

What a wally....

Viv has squished it for now lol x

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Wizard,

Thanks for that - I like them if I can hide behind the sofa!

AAAaaaarrrrrggghhhh!!!!!!

viv said...

Hope

they are permanently kicked back under the stone on here. I do not try to reason with nut cases x

hope4truth said...

Viv

Are me and my farden exceptions xxx

viv said...

Hello LGC and Wiz

Good to see you both back again.

Wiz, re adrenaline rush when Kate er apparently discovered Maddie got abducted..how would heavy alcohol interact with that do you think?

Di said...

Wizard

Your comment about Sweetpepperspray from 3As...

I am feeling guilty now, because I posted one of his/her comments.

Please don't tell me I am the cause of all this trouble....

docmac said...

Evening all. Just a quick look in from me.

"I do say to myself 'why did I think it was safe?' But it did feel safe and so right. I love her and I'm a totally responsible parent and that's the only thing that keeps me going."

"It wasn't like a decision we made. It was a matter of 'let's get the kids to sleep, then we'll have dinner.' It wasn't a 'shall I, shan't I?' thing."


Let's see what the North Americans think of that, Kate. I urge all of you to watch the video (see link below) which you have probably not seen before. This social worker puts it so well, and anyone who would disagree with his thoughts on the McCanns' neglect of all 3 children I would consider to be more than a a little deranged. I would fear for the safety of the youngsters in their own families.


http://www.yoursocialworker.com/videos/neglect.wmv

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope (and Viv),

I felt our 'friend' might just be a general nutter, but I would be prepared to entertain the idea of a Pro who is experimenting with new ways to demonstrate how swiftly they should be prescribed strong medication.

Have just discovered the Most Haunted Live forum! Oh bliss, oh joy! I've come a long way since my 'virgin blogging' days at the DE...

Hope you're enjoying supper - I'm off to do something with fish that penguins find it hard to do (cook it).

See you later!

X Little Grey Chef

viv said...

Hiya Di

We are all responsible for our own behaviour and that person cannot seek to blame you any more than the McCanns or the mum in Goa can seek to try and blame the police!

Sorry state of affairs when it has nothing better to do than wait around for me to walk out the room. Its life must revolve around this blog and nothing else..pure obsession!

hope4truth said...

LGC

Enjoy dinner and I dont want to have to drag you ot of the most haunted forum to come and speak to us (oh damn I wont know your user name)LOL xxx

viv said...

Hiya Doc

Thanks for the link I will watch that in a min.

By the way did you know that me and my 19 other personas are all madly in love with - ask Supertroll! LOL Dont know what your wife will think!

atardi said...

Hi Viv,

Is Supertroll the same person as Muldoon.

Di said...

Viv

I agree with you there, total obsession.

I am going to watch Docmac's link and then chill out with my husband.

Catch up tomorrow...

viv said...

Yes Atardi

Supertroll/Muse/Assasin/Muldoon she has at least 20. It is a feature of psychosis that they believe others are doing what they themselves do ..weird paranoid conspiracy theories about others..you can read it all on her blog!

hope4truth said...

NIght Di xxx

viv said...

Nite Di

Have a nice evening x

hope4truth said...

Viv

Oh I have not had anyone in charge of my behaviour since I turned 18 must we all call you Miss now???

Di said...

Anon

Just before I go how obvious, wait for Viv to leave and then come out from under your bridge!!!

Tiresome..................

Di said...

Viv

Bye for now.

Di said...

Bye for now Hope

Catch up tomorrow.

madge said...

Viv
I agree about the alcohol and it has been a disputed area on how much wine was consumed. bearing in mind that most people (according to the Mccanns) were away from the table for such a long time then really even if it was only the lesser amount of wine that was reported it could have been a considerable proportion that was consumed by Kate Mccann.

atardi said...

Anon,

Keep insulting people. That's what you are good at!

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,
If I were to indulge in speculative theorising (what me – never) I would suggest if M died earlier in the day, the shock, the clear up, setting the scene, having to sit in the Tapis Bar acting normally and then to have to pull off the announcement of an abduction would have depleted all adrenaline. Add to all that expended nervous energy a good few drinks (if not more) for Dutch courage. Searching for Madeleine would have been definitely off.

If the above scenario was true legless and speechless would have been the end result very much like the reality on May 3rd.

viv said...

Hiya Madge

We have seen the amount of alcohol the group were consuming has been a very important part of the investigation.

In court when descibing the group generally a pretty disastrous picture will be painted.

According to Mr Payne Kate stuck Madeleine in bed at 6.30 at night. Then her and Gerry sat drinking in the apartment, then they go and have aperitifs, then wine then liqueurs etc.

So here we have a picture of a group of British doctors dumping their kids in the creche all day and almost as soon as they get them back dumping them in bed, ready to go and drink vast quantities of alcohol, whilst leaving their children completely alone. How responsible would they have been to even go and check them in this state?

In Kate's case alcohol and mental health just do not mix well, they seemed to be even drinking in the daytime. Responsible child care??

docmac said...

Haha Viv. I have also heard that I've got 'a thing' for Mum21 and Rosiepops. With my (admittedly younger) wife turning 32 - and still looking 21 - in a couple of weeks I'm sure they will understand if I decline. She keeps me 15 years younger. You've seen the photos, you know what I'm talking about ;-).

Oops, I think I just gave a huge clue to the triplet stalker Christabel. Well, let's see if she can find me now, tee hee he.

viv said...

~Thanks Wizard

That is a very helpful way of putting it..she already used up all her adrenaline and in her drunken and distressed state after all that pent up angst just started to collapse, as we know.

viv said...

Hiya Doc

Yes I have seen the pics of your lovely wife..and I seen the pic of Mum21 too ROFLMAO thinking what an agonisinig choice that would be for you!

When I did the list of some of Supertroll's personas I did miss off the old original of course, dear Christabel..as soon as I joined the DE back in October, I though Oh dear what a loop de loop!
We all got "knocked back" by Gerry McCann, apparently, now what a hideous thought! Oh and then there was Gentlebreeze...

atardi said...

Viv,

I know that muse gave a link on the DE. Something like the thethuoghtsofamuse?

This person is really obsessed with you.

Be prepared because we have only one week before the PJ arrive.

The panic is increasing.

viv said...

Hiya Atardi

I know she is obsessed with me, ever since I suggested she get psychiatric help back on the DE..it is an all consuming obsession, but she cannot help it really, she is very ill.

Rosie uses her and winds her up. That is very wicked.

Viv x

Joe said...

I think Viv's 17.37 post sums it up for me.


This case is nowhere near as complex as people try and make out. Sometimes it is helpful to just stick to the pertinent facts!


All the theories and inconsistencies have never been corrected by the team McCann, thus feeding the confusion and disinformation. The case is plain simple IMO, its all the false layers that need to be stripped away, since the simple truth is not going to be volunteered by the Tapas.

docmac said...

Seen the video yet Viv? It's a goodie.

Goedenavond Atardi. Alles goed?

Where's Lizzie? She can't be too happy after today's football. Tense game though.

Viv you have mail.

Cláudia said...

Hey, doc. I've seen the pictures too. And man, what a hard choice!!! I suppose your wife has got teeth, right?
Viv, I have already starting digging in that place and man it's going to take time. lolol I'm choosing the most important ones, just like I did in other places.

For the child neglect defenders reading (hello all of you), no need to get scared or even discuss the topic. I'm obviously lying and bluffing. You can continue your child neglecter adoration.

Going back to watch football! :-)

viv said...

Thanks Joe

I think people have taken a relatively simple case and the important facts against the McCanns and their friends and fed some pretty fertile imaginations.

Courts dont deal with conspiracy theories, they deal with the evidence, the lies and the proper inferences that can be drawn from them and the irrefutable facts.

The very best thing Kate and Gerry McCann was to just shut up and let the prosecution prove their case. They have gone an awful long way towards helping them prove it by all the rubbish they have put into the public arena which they cannot take away again and will be used against them.

Viv x

docmac said...

Dash, I have been summonsed to watch the last two parts of 'Wives and Daughters'. Another 150 mins to go, though it is a very beautifully scripted and crafted television drama.

Ate logo.

atardi said...

Hope4truth,

How is your fardening going?
Here we had the sun shining a bit in the morning but it has been raining nearly the whole day. So have been playing MarioParty8 with the kids.

Don't make me jealous about your trip to KFC. I love it. But have to travel 45 mins. So we had the happy meal distributor.

How do you deal with the panic from Anon?

I don't know what she called me but it something like a cow.

Joe said...

Absolutely right Viv,

They have just added to the pot to muddy what, IMO is a simple case, and easily solvable if the right people co-operated. Its that simple and we all all suspect that is the case.

atardi said...

Hey Docmac,

Alles prima. Enjoy Wives and daughters. Never heard of that one.

Geniet ervan.

lizzy said...

Hi Docmac,
Yes did you watch the game? We did not play well, was a bit disappointed, still we only lost -0 so not a massacre. I turned the commentary onto the fans though, as Andy Gray is so irritating, you wouldn't believe to listen to him that he ever played for Everton. Lizzy

Ana said...

Hello viv and all,

I think that that interview was made when people here start saying that police thought that Gerry and Kate were suspects and that the couple only gave interviews together because it was the only way to make sure that one could stop another ,by the hand touch , for saying something that could be very damage to them , so she decides to give the interview alone ...

I remember that, in the beginning of august, a newspaper wrote on the front page: “Police believe they kill her “, this paper was “Tal e Qual”. This paper is close now.

It was a shock really, but rumours start long time before that news, Kate and Gerry McCann knew all that, but they could not tell how they knew, I have my own suspicions on that matter … they were always one step forward and I wonder, how?

With the Spanish interview the same happen, Kate was under fire because her lack of emotion, so what she decide to do? She cries …

Imo they had made a lot of mistakes, because they were trying since the beginning of the events, defends their self by the media when the reasonable thing to do was and is to co-operate with police … I don’t think this will ever happen unfortunately ...their daughter is missing , for god sake !


"justice for Madeleine "



Ana

hope4truth said...

Hallo Atardi

How are you?

We have had lovely whether todsy and spent a lot of time in the Farden still no pot or sun dial or big statue of cupid I really dont know what I want now...

A day playing Mario was that on the Wi???

Cant beat a bit of fardening on a sunny day xxx

atardi said...

Viv and all,

Maybe you have mentioned this before.
But after reading today's articles (including that one about Jane Tanner)

JT said:"I DID see a man that night carrying away Madeleine.

"She WAS abducted."


Do you think she mentioned this on her own or was it planned that she would come up with this story?

The interview was in november 2007 and it was after the forensic evidence reached the papers.

In the same interview: Returning

It was on one of her visits to see her two daughters that Jane passed Maddie’s dad Gerry, 39. He was returning from seeing his children.


JT passed Gerry but didn't see he was talking to Wilkins? And Wilkins said he didn't see JT when he was talking to Gerry on the street.



I think JT is in big trouble!

viv said...

Hiya Doc

I watched the N American social worker on the link speaking about the McCanns and he is very clear and categoric in saying you do not leave a four year old and a couple of two year old twins like that, they could choke in a few seconds, they were out of earshot, at that age they do not have the maturity to know what to do or even how to call 911 IT IS NEGLECT AND UNLAWFUL. In more mature children say between the ages of 9-13 the parents have to make a judgment call on whether it is safe to leave their kids, they may still be guilty of neglect, but no way would you ever leave such tiny children.

He wanted to stress that abduction if the parent is in the home is almost unheard of, that is where the McCanns should have been. If the parents are downstairs with a baby monitor and the kids are upstairs in bed then the children have that constant level of supervision that they MUST HAVE at that age. They were culpable for serious neglect.


Thanks very much for that.

Now let the Pros chew on that!

http://www.yoursocialworker.com/videos/neglect.wmv

hope4truth said...

Viv

As I want to be your new stalker you have mail xxx

viv said...

Hiya Atardi

You are right Jane Tanner is in serious trouble. She frustrated a missing child enquiry with false information. Likewise O'Brien, Fiona Payne and Rachel Oldfield also falsely pointed the finger at Murat getting him arguido status to lead a false trail away from the McCanns. British Judges would send them down, big time, especially Tanner and O'Brien. Mr Payne also gave false information saying he saw Madeleine alive at 6.30 that also puts him in very serious trouble. Matthew Oldfield again gave false information saying he checked the McCann children at 9.30 when Paynes mother states all parents checked their own children. Unless they start telling the truth the lot of them could go down with the exception of the older female oh remember her name now Diane Webster - she is in the clear.

Viv x

viv said...

tee hee

I see we keep getting trolled - they obviously do not like the topic so let us stick with it!

Viv x

hope4truth said...

Doc

Thanks for the link very intresting I think the USA will not be making them out to be heros if they ever get the chance to go on Oprah...

xxx

viv said...

Hiya Ana

Thanks for your fairly long post above. You make some really good points. Everything they do is in response to allegations and revelations against them and it is cynical and obvious.

As you say, in July they knew people were openly discussing them as suspects. On German TV in July an interviewer outright accused them so Kate's press release on a Sunday when everyone reads the Sunday papers was a response to that. Only a gullible fool would not see a clear pattern in their overly defensive behaviour. There is only one thing decent parents would have done - shut up and co-operate with the police. They have done everything in their power to hinder and frustrate - demanding all these engineered and false sightings, creepy men etc be investigated. The police are investigating the right people and they do not call the shots!

Viv x

viv said...

Hope

Going on Oprah, with Gerry and Ludicrous preparing the script and the McCanns getting paid £1M for it was another of their sad little dreams like sueing the PJ for one million.

When they are in a cell reality of their situation will finally hit them.

Viv x

madge said...

Hi Viv
Sorry for not replying earlier but had child duties to attend to.
It is so shockingly terrible the way they have continued to put themselves before the children, even after Madeleine disappeared. I agree we seem to be stating things that are upsetting the trolls. Have to go now as plan to watch a lost recording. Night all.

viv said...

Nite Madge

The McCanns have simple rules in life...self indulgence and self-preservation..no room their for childcare and concern. Sad, but true.

Poor little Madeleine, Poor little Twins xxxxx

atardi said...

Goedenavond Hope,

Have to cope with the fact that I lost every single game. Yes it was on the Wii.

Do you like Bamboo plants? That can be an option. You can put them in pots too.

Wizard said...

Gary Direnfeld on CH5 live says the parents of Madeleine McCann are culpable for their daughter’s disappearance.

Madeleine and her siblings did not have the cognitive capacity to understand danger. They should not have been left alone.

Well that’s common sense in a media report for a change.

http://www.yoursocialworker.com/videos/neglect.wmv

Wizard said...

Artardi,
You mention bamboo plants - did you mean pampas grass. lol

hope4truth said...

Atardi

Had not thought about bamboo will have to go back to the garden centre next week and have a re think...

We havent got Mario for the Wii yet I am doing well on Brain training but only if I go on every day I am hopeless at everything else...

atardi said...

Ana,

The fact that the parents of a missing child don't want to co-operate with the police says it all.

hope4truth said...

Wizard

Never thought of that and if we put it in a pot we can move it with us LOL x

Ana said...

Viv,

“When they are in a cell reality of their situation will finally hit them.”

Well, I do not know if they ever will be in a real cell, but they will for sure be in the cell of life which, I think ,the worst.

The cloud of suspicion over their heads will be huge and the questions the twins will do to their parents when they start making questions about their sister and start comprehend all that has happen … I can not even imagine …

Atardi,

Says it all, isn’t it? How normal is that ?

atardi said...

Wizard,

OMG pampas grass is also a bamboo plant. Never thought of that one.

I have resolved many problems in my garden with bamboo plants.

But after reading about pampas grass on the DE I noticed that a couple living in the same street as I live has it also.

But I (really) hope they don't know the meaning of pampas grass in the front garden.

viv said...

Hiya Ana

Maybe I just hope they finish up in a cell because that is what I think they deserve.

Whatever the outcome as you say, they will always be in a cell.

My heart really does go out to the twins and what they must grow up and face. There is no way out of that, really unless the authorities took drastic measures to seek to protect them.

Viv x

atardi said...

Hope,

I am also good with Brain Training,Wii party and Wii Sports. But I'm a disaster with other games.

Anonymous said...

Dear Viv

I have been reading your blog for some time, but never had the courage to post. My belief is that there was an accident on the night of 3 May. I suspect that while her parents were out with their friends, Madeleine woke, got into her parents nightstand and got hold of something recreational not meant for children to use.
I believe this is the reason for the cover up. If the truth came out, how would they justify, as doctors that the child got hold of what she did?
I believe that these people are part of larger parties at home, which involve many well-known people in society and that this is why there is such a movement in their defence. Should they be arrested, I think they may talk. And many more may fall.

nancy said...

2345 - your post to me at.17.30

You may have logged off by now but
I have to say, you are certainly consistent in your belief of interference with the due process of law in this case, i.e. the involvement from day one of the government,the McCanns'lawyers, CM, seemingly all involved in preventing justice for Madeleine. As far as political interference is concerned, I find it hard to believe that the story has not leaked out by now if that is correct, because I would have thought that there would always be some disenchanted politician ready to reveal all he knows! If you are correct in what you say, let's hope all will be revealed before too long!

Signing off now - see you all tomorrow

Nancy

Anonymous said...

I would worry instead about your own libellous comments anonymous.

atardi said...

Ana,

Well, I do not know if they ever will be in a real cell, but they will for sure be in the cell of life which, I think ,the worst.

I also don't hope they will be in a cell because of the other 2 children.

The cell of life started since 3 may!

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
A very interesting post by another Anon at 22.06, followed by a huge post by a different anon, which might make you miss the one at 22.06, I'm making no comment as do not know who has posted this 22.06 post, but its an interesting post. Lizzy

Anonymous said...

WE ALL KNOW ITS YOU RFLOPS,WITH YOUR SIDEKICK JANEGTWIT,GET LOST YOU SAD OLD LOSERS darrrrrrrrrlllllllinnggs

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Dear Viv

I have been reading your blog for some time, but never had the courage to post. My belief is that there was an accident on the night of 3 May. I suspect that while her parents were out with their friends, Madeleine woke, got into her parents nightstand and got hold of something recreational not meant for children to use.
I believe this is the reason for the cover up. If the truth came out, how would they justify, as doctors that the child got hold of what she did?
I believe that these people are part of larger parties at home, which involve many well-known people in society and that this is why there is such a movement in their defence. Should they be arrested, I think they may talk. And many more may fall.

Sunday, 30 March 2008 22:06:00 o'clock BST

Anonymous said...

Actually this isn't them.

But I'll note your last libellous comment to them too.

Thanks for that

I thought I was doing everyone a favour...Claudia has asked for them.

I also have all the posts and comments from Alsabella's blog, should anyone need them.

hope4truth said...

Oh god anon and on and on and on...

Madeleine is still missing worry about her the parents reputation does not matter they blew that when they decided to go out to the bar with their friends and leave the children alone...

Whatever hell K&G are going through is nothing compared to the terror of a little girl whos only need was to be protected and kept safe. Not much for a child to ask and most parents do it without thinking..

viv said...

Hiya Lizzie

I just kicked the saddo back under the stone again, she keeps crawling out, I dont know about the other one 10.06 - it is interesting but not a view I share.

Zodiac said...

The fact that McC's have two other children makes no difference if they are involved in their daughters disappearance. They are accountable for their own actions if they have broken any laws whether they have other children is irrelevant, otherwise no one would be convicted of any crimes just because they have dependent children. They should have thought about the consequences of their actions. IMO.

ANON

Having an opinion or believing the allegations is not defamation or libel. The McC's have already been compensated from the source of said allegations. I do believe you are behaving like a headless chicken. Something bothering you. The McC's and Co cannot dominate the World and what we believe. All IMHO. NO RSVP.

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