2 Mar 2008

DID KATE KILL MADELEINE?

My own view has tended to no, Gerry did, but here is a very well argued alternative version. I tell you what really interests me. In my own scenario I could never understand why Kate would agree to cover it up, although "battered wife syndrome" could offer an explanation. Here Wuzard gives a fascinating view point and a really post also from 2345. I though this deserved a separate thread and Thanks Wizard. I always really enjoyed your informed views on the DE and it is great to read you on here.Viv xHi Viv/FelicityMy previous post only copied half onto the forum site - for what its worth I copy below the full post. My current view on who harmed Madeleine hasn’t changed much, but perhaps before I was 90/95% certain now after reading so many inconsistencies in statements, watching behaviour and listening to spin there is no doubt in my mind. I think Kate is the more volatile one and quite simply lost her temper with Madeleine during the afternoon of the 3rd May perhaps even earlier. Gerry is controlling and decided the best thing to do was to cover things up and Kate agreed to this. They might even have deluded themselves into thinking this was purely an accident and therefore they shouldn’t be punished losing their life style and remaining children. The abduction was thought to be the best plan to cover their tracks. Everything that happened from 8.25pm 3rd May was staged.Looking at the Mc’s behaviour if we disregard the abduction theory and forward the culpability of the parents in the manslaughter of their daughter and the subsequent cover up of what really happened. The Mc’s have always got a problem they know what really happened and, therefore, their true reactions to the death of their daughter have to be masked because they want people to believe in an abduction and therefore a possibility arises that Madeleine could still be alive. To continually second guess what the reactions of grieving parents worried witless by the disappearance of their daughter would be is difficult to pull off. That’s why nothing they appear to do seems right, they are second guessing appropriate behaviour. This is probably why they stayed in Portugal for so long, they were unable to accurately determine when it would be appropriate for grieving parents to leave. Imo they overcooked it and they stayed too long. The decision about when to leave was made for them by the pj who made them arguidos thus necessitating a quick departure. It is possible and very speculative on my part that Tanner was with Kate when the “accident” occurred and for whatever reason has agreed to stay quite and cover up for her friends. I don’t know what anyone else thinks on that point.The reason why I think Gerry did not caused the “accident” is because I’m not sure Kate would have agreed to cover for him especially when she was put in the frame by the pj as the guilty party.Best Regards - Wizard 17:47Friday, February 29, 2008 9:47:00 AM PST 2345 said...wizard,I agree and also think the McCanns stayed close for exactly the same reasons as Huntley - fear due to guilt. I also believe PJ appeared much sharper than the group had anticipated, i.e. they were not convinced an abduction had occurred so there was a need to stay and start a PR campaign based on the false plea.It's been the McCanns versus Police from 3 May to date. The damning forensic evidence presented to them at interview was probably a bit of a bombshell given the lengths they took to destroy it. So they fled ... and continued the McCann versus Police campaign from Britain.Huntley stayed close in the hope of monitoring the evidence found by the Police; the McCanns have tried and failed to do likewise.This is one of the reasons Forums are so heavily monitored. The McCanns only means of defence was to hand pick Metado 3 to do their 'dirty' work; staged performances obtaining false witness accounts to support their lies and cover up. Defence by media was clearly the intention when they raised £1.3 m under false pretences. 18.00 p.m.Friday, February 29, 2008 10:01:00 AM PST
Posted by felicity at 10:32 AM
413 comments:
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irina said...
Hello everyone,I would agree with the wizard that it is likely that Kate is the one responsible.I do not see Gerry to be bothered with Madeleine; she was not his responsibility or duty. I would see him rather ordering Kate to sort Madeleine out. Kate I think lost it (more likely not for the first time). Madeleine has a look of abused child.Compare the look of the boy on the first photograph.http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1307424,00.html
Friday, February 29, 2008 10:57:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Having watched a number of interviews of Kate and Gerry the informal (not staged) videos give an impression of Kate being almost euphoric at times, this is paradoxical in itself for a grieving mother. I have often thought Kate could be suffering from post natal depression but could this be bi-disorder? This would be an explanation for her employment record showing chopping and changing with no obvious professional focus. I have thought this for a long time and could of course be completely wrong but it worries me as she still has charge of two other small children. Wizard 19:28
Friday, February 29, 2008 11:29:00 AM PST
Atardi said...
Wizard,"That’s why nothing they appear to do seems right, they are second guessing appropriate behaviour". I lost my sympathy for the parents because of their behaviour. You put it very right.They are second guessing appropiate behaviour.
Friday, February 29, 2008 11:48:00 AM PST
felicity said...
Hi IrinaI would agree Madeleine does have a forlorn look of an abused child. She sometimes looks intense and sad, nervously sucking her mouth in. Also the burning to her arm and lots of pretty serious looking bruises to her legs on the tennis balls pic, apparently one of the very last of her. Night terrors or sleepwalking, needing medication can be an indication of a disturbed child. Kate's comments about Madeleine were shocking and highly unnatural, perhaps more so that it did not even seem to occur to her that they were. She started to break away from th control of Gerry and gave a magazine interview in which she said Madeleine was jealous of the twins when she tried to breast feed them and shrieked for attention, that Madeleine cried for 18 hours a day when she was a baby. A normal mom would understand that to a child just two years who has been used to sole attention, to suddenly have two tiny ones taking up mom breast feeding would cause intense unhappiness and insecurity in any child - how bizarre to suggest she was "jealous" as though a little child two should be attributed with such an unpleasant emotion. Again, what normal mom would calmly admit or even suggest a baby would cry this many hours a day. The baby would have to be seriously ill or in intense pain. You could not simply put this down to "colic". Like you Wizard I have wondered if Kate suffers from bi-polar disorder having met offenders with this condition. I thought it would be helpful to just post brief details for the benefit of others who may not be familiar with one of the most serious mental illnesses that can even produce pscyhosis, paranoid delusions etc as in scizophrenia. I was very concerned when Kate's mum indicated that Kate states Madeleiene comes to her in the night - this is a serious delusional belief and would not be experienced by someone merely suffering from normal bereavement or depression IMO.Viv x Bipolar disorder and manic depressionDr Trisha MacnairJames TigheThere's no cure for bipolar disorder, but understanding the symptoms and what triggers an episode can help people to live a normal life. In this articleWhat causes it?What are the symptoms? Who's affected?What's the treatment? Advice and support What causes it?The exact causes of bipolar disorder aren't known, but an interaction of genes and environmental factors, such as personal traumas or stress, can influence symptoms. Unresolvable problems or emotional damage in childhood may play a part, possibly combined with genetic factors.The illness first tends to appear in adulthood but may occur earlier. Bipolar disorder does occur in children, but it's often misdiagnosed. Affected people fluctuate between periods of intense depression or mania, interspersed by periods of relative calm. What are the symptoms?It's important to distinguish between the three elements of this condition:Depressive symptomsManic symptomsThe cycle of these moodsThe symptoms of depression include low mood, sleep disturbance, loss of appetite, a sense of pessimism, hopelessness, reduced sexual drive, loss of interest or pleasure in life, reduced ability to concentrate, and recurrent thoughts of death and suicide.People in mania are often described as being like a tornado. They experience elevated moods or euphoria, increased activity, pressured fast speech, self-important ideas or grandiose delusions, hallucinations, reduced sleep, increased appetite for food and sex, overspending on a wild scale and all-night excesses.These sets of symptoms occur in cycles, which come in several varieties:Mixed - it's possible for a person to have many of the symptoms of mania and also have severely depressive thoughts. This is especially the case if the person has insight into what's happening to them. Although the symptoms of mania can sound quite pleasant, it can also feel as though you're losing control. Cycles - symptoms of mania can be followed by symptoms of depression in an almost regular pattern. These swings in mood can occur over a period of anything from days to months. Less commonly, some people may experience only depression or mania, but within a regular recurring pattern.Who's affected?About one per cent of people develop bipolar disorder in their lifetime. The risk is higher if you've relatives with the disorder. About 12 per cent of people with a brother or sister with bipolar disorder develop the condition.What's the treatment?There's no cure for bipolar disorder, but many people find that an understanding of their disease and what triggers episodes - as well as treatments, including medicines such as antidepressants and lithium - can help them to live a relatively normal life. Antenatal screening isn't possible.With any condition that goes in a cycle, half the battle of managing it is monitoring where you are in the cycle at any time. To cope with bipolar disorder, you can monitor your mood and your thoughts or ask someone you trust to monitor your mood. Whenever they spot a relapse coming, they can warn you, and you can both take certain pre-agreed steps. For example, taking a couple of days' rest, reviewing whether you've taken on too much lately and shedding some of it, or seeing a community mental health team member.Some people with bipolar disorder have extreme mood swings that can't be managed by mood monitoring alone. Among other drugs, psychiatrists can prescribe lithium, which seems to stabilise mood swings. It's important that exactly the correct level is maintained in the blood. Too much can be poisonous, but too little will have no effect. For this reason, people on lithium need to be seen regularly by their mental health team and have their blood levels checked.Newer approaches to the treatment of bipolar disorder, including transcranial magnetic stimulation and vagal nerve stimulation, are currently being researched.Working with your mental health team, it's possible to draw up a plan detailing the type of care you want (or don't want) in a crisis.
Friday, February 29, 2008 12:07:00 PM PST
Cláudia said...
Hello, darling!How are you? I'm ok but a bit tired. Going to have some dinner now. Beijinhos!
Friday, February 29, 2008 12:18:00 PM PST
irina said...
Viv, wizard,There has been a suggestion of a drug abuse by Kate (long term cocaine user). Docmac pointed that colomba is one of the effects in children. The other include all Madeleine's features: crying, disturbed sleep, hyperactivity, slow growing est.
Friday, February 29, 2008 12:55:00 PM PST
lizzy said...
Wizard,I agree with your theory that it is most likely to have been Kate who killed Madeleine, she has lways appeared to be the stronger out of the two and also can imagine her most likely to have lost her temper when agitated, dealing with difficult children,Gerry I think would take control and organise the cover up.I also feel out of the two she is the coldest person, although Gerry is arrogant and controlling he does show emotion, albeit anger in some videos we have seen, but Kate seems bereft of emotion, a cold fish and her comments when interviewed by Womans' own were telling, that she had no difficulty sleeping after a few days of the supposed abduction. Any normal parent would have still been searching at that stage ,never mind sleeping if they believed their child to have been abdducted. I also feel she displays classic signs of somebody who has issues mentally. Lizzy 20.55
Friday, February 29, 2008 12:56:00 PM PST
Louise said...
2345Ridiculous to compare McCanns with Huntley. Huntley stayed close to the investigation because that is where he worked, the School plus he had tied accomodation next door.IrinaHow can you say Gerry not bothered with Madeline, apparently as we are always being told she was crying for Daddy a couple of hours the night before. A child does not cry/call for a parent if their is no bond. Show me a photo where Madeline looks like an abused child in EVERYphoto I have seen she looks happy and well cared for.VivAll the burning to her arm and serious looking bruises on her legs, what are you talking about, no burning, and any minor bruises on legs are surely down to the normal scrapes a child of that age incurs. Parents who batter/burn their children tend to do so where it can be covered with clothes, not parade injuries for all to see.
Friday, February 29, 2008 12:57:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
Key Questions back in september 2007.Viv,I'm reading an article on timesonline it's very long. One key question was:Is anyone else confirming these reports?Sources in Britain who are assisting the Portuguese investigation have agreed that there is “significant” scientific evidence linking Mr and Mrs McCann to their daughter’s death. However, Portuguese officers took the highly unusual step of publicly denying a report which was allegedly based on sources in Britain. If you want the whole article here I can copy and paste it. But it's very long. I can mail it also to you.
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:00:00 PM PST
Louise said...
Wizard you sayI have often thought Kate could be suffering from post natal depression but could this be bi-disorder? This would be an explanation for her employment record showing chopping and changing with no obvious professional focus. No obvious professional focus...she did her doctors training and was working part-time as a GP with three small children.Why are you trying to alter the facts to fit your bizzare theories?
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:10:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
What can the scientific evidence prove?Who is revealing details about scientific evidence? By law Portuguese police are prevented from revealing details of investigations. However, some officers have been secretly briefing Portuguese journalists.What scientific evidence have police collected? In a briefings on Monday night detectives said that they found traces of “bodily fluids” in the car which had probably come from Madeleine with a large amount of Madeleine’s hair in the boot of the car.When pathologists refer to bodily fluids they usually mean the putrefying substance created during the decomposition of a body tissue and blood. This “fluid” is evidence that a corpse has been present, but DNA samples are required to identify the body. It is unclear what “fluids” have been found. It might be traces of urine, dried blood or vomit, which would not conclusively prove Madeleine had died.Does a large quantity of hair prove that Madeleine’s body was in the car? No. The hair must show evidence that it came from a decomposing body. Other hair could be “transmitted” from items of Madeleine’s clothing and belongings.Is anyone else confirming these reports? Sources in Britain who are assisting the Portuguese investigation have agreed that there is “significant” scientific evidence linking Mr and Mrs McCann to their daughter’s death. However, Portuguese officers took the highly unusual step of publicly denying a report which was allegedly based on sources in Britain.Does the scientific evidence prove that Madeleine was killed? Because the samples have degraded over time the scientists can never be 100 per cent certain that they came from Madeleine.Do Portuguese detectives think there is enough evidence to secure a conviction? Senior officers now believe they have sufficient evidence to charge Kate and Gerry McCann for concealing a body and probably to convict Mrs McCann with accidentally killing her daughter. However, they privately admitted earlier this week that they still could not prove that Madeleine was intentionally killed.
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:16:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Anon,Who are the appropriate authorities?ZodiacI CHOOSE NOT TO FEED TROLLS.
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:24:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
So where does the syringe in the bedroom cabinet come in to all of this? Agree with the possible scenario, I have always thought the reason there is no emotion in the pair of them is because they are so conscious of what has happened and of keeping to the story that it impeded their mourning the loss of a daughter.I also think gerry at some point realised the benefits of what had happened and began to enjoy the celebrity it brought untill the tide of public opinion turned.I think when they returned to Britain and we saw the pictures of a Kate with bags under her eyes and clearly strained, that it was more to do with the potential consequences than of coming home without Madeleine.If the reports about the priest are accurate, that he now despises them, its highly likely kate confessed to him what actually happened to Madeleine....Which might be why way back before the aguido status was put on them, they were removed from the papal prayers and all mention of Madeleine was deleted from the web site.What I cant work out is does fat aunty Phil know the truth? His brother John? Her mother? And if they havent actually been told the truth outright, surely they will too have picked up on the inaccuracies leaked to the press.
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:29:00 PM PST
lizzy said...
zodiac,Yes good point who are the relevant authorities, Metado3 ?Lizzy
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:37:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Lizzy,The things people will say to try and intimidate and shut people up. ZodiacI CHOOSE NOT TO FEED TROLLS
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:40:00 PM PST
lizzy said...
Zodiac,It is pathetic really how some do try to intimidate others with threats, sad really they are bullies. Lizzy
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:49:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hi allI see the intimidators have arrived - as Zodiac points out there are no "relevant authorities". If someone feels they have been defamed then it is up them personally to take civil action. The McCanns commenced such a civil action in Portugal against a newspaper for writing the PJ thought they had killed Madeleine. They did not proceed with that action. It is not libel to speak the truth. By commencing an action and then dropping it the McCanns just made themselves look even more guilty.Ignorant people who just do not understand the law and think they can instil fear into others by silly threats are misguided fools.Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:51:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Is there anywhere where there isnt such animosity going on that people would prefer to bicker than discuss anything? It seems that unless you are in the clicke here no one will even acknowlege your existance much less attempt to answer you.(.Not all but the vast majority)
Friday, February 29, 2008 1:58:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Yes I do, but there is nothing lawful about all the stuff you have written about me! Further, I would point out that it is unlawful harassment to stalk and abuse someone on the internet. Recently a lady got sent to prison for breach under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 by behaving in a similar manner to you. You should take care, Madam, my patience my run out and then you will find out just how much I know about the law and just how good I am at it. That is no idle threat. Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:00:00 PM PST
irina said...
Louise, annon,whatever.You have no credit left for some time now.Good night everyone else.Justice will be served.
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:06:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Im not talking to you in that post...I was actually reffering to the anti McCanns for want of a better word...Rather than be welcoming to new posters or of answering a question, they would prefer to squabble with Pro McCanns...I am anti for the record!
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:10:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hi MuldoonON my blog there is an article concerning the Spanish Psychiatrists opinion and also Moita Flores a criminal psychologist. When people have done something serious like this keeping very busy can be a distraction for them and make them feel they are doing something to save themselves from detection.Trying to see any hint of remorse in Kate McCann is very difficult. She looked fit and well in Portugal but absolutely terrible shortly after she came home. This did tend to show that she was not concerned about Madeleine but concerned when she became an arguida. Likewise with Gerry McCann. The first time I noted him look sad and depressed was on exiting the police station from his interview - self pity, not pity for Madeleine. His behaviour in wishing to cash in is inexplicable in terms of normal human behaviour. His sickening smile outside The Whithehouse back in June when he thoughts all his schemes were working out. Now he knows they are not.I am sorry about the distractions on here. I will just delete further comments of that nature. Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:10:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
muldoon,I spent the whole evening reading your posts. Glad you found Viv's site.
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:12:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Good Night IrinaI agree just will be served - the PJ will be here shortly. This is increasing paranoia for obvious reasons!Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:13:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Felicity will have a look at the blog you mention.Atardi I am glad I found it too, Last night was good conversation even with the nut appearing..I wasnt being critical just pointingout that its hard to come in here late in the game, you are either presumed to be a troll or ignored in favour of digs at people clearly intent on disrupting the posts.
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:23:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Also in fairness kids are always falling...particularly that age, my daughter is always tripping over, usually justafter feethave grown, beleive it or not.
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:25:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Louise said... 2345Ridiculous to compare McCanns with Huntley. Huntley stayed close to the investigation because that is where he worked, the School plus he had tied accomodation next door.I have to say I am shocked that someone could even make excuses for Huntley. He stayed close to the investigation because he is a control freak, wanted to know what the police, knew and did not want to be found out. He got a job working at a school to be close to little girls because he was a dangerous predator of young girls. As such, it is reasonable to make the comparison - Gerry even said he wanted to "control the investigation". When he knew he was certainly not controlling it, they were on the first plane out of there. Never mind Madeleine..If I was innocent I would stay there and keep looking for my little girl and make sure the police knew I was innocent by answering all their questions and staying to fully co-operate with them. Who but the guilty would run away?Vivx
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:30:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
muldoon,It's true it's hard to come here late in the game. I've been reading the DE for a long time and decided to post later.What most DE have experienced was that some new posters posted as a pro Madeleine poster and suddenly became an anti Madeleine poster.So time will tell.
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:39:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Here is the article from the Spanish Pscyhiatrist I was talking about written just after the Antenna 3 interview they did in Spain:Kate cries like a poker playerCorreio da Manha - 26 de Outubro de 2007The key to the mystery lies "certainly with Kate, a very special and disturbed woman", guarantees to CM Jose Cabrera Fornero, a forensic psychiatrist who has been following the case since the beginning. The Spanish man attentively watched "the staged interview" that the couple gave to Antena 3, and its purpose was "to have the Spanish people on their side". But 70 percent of the viewers who called the channel believes the McCanns are lying, and the psychiatrist sides with them - "by crying without moving a single muscle, Kate looked like a poker player".A specialist in facial expressions, Cabrera says that "the face of Kate is always the same, except for the tears - the first ones over the last five months and curiously only after having been criticised for not crying". Now she did it but her face "doesn't express any emotion or feeling. When one cries, one's face muscles move, and she didn't move a single muscle, just like poker players. That is highly significant", says the Spanish psychiatrist, and "brings us the certainty that she is hiding something".Cabrera says the 30 minutes of conversation ended up being "a non-spontaneous interview, perfectly ordered in terms of the questions that were asked by the journalist. And it gives us the impression that the entire stance was staged by the couple".The Spanish man even remembers Gerry's last sentence and even considers it "genial": "Don't talk until they take the microphone off you". This only proves that all of it was just a big theatre play, the entire interview was staged. That is clear".Jose Cabrera noticed that "during half an hour of interview his only concern was to control her. It's extraordinary. Whenever she opened her mouth to speak, he squeezed her hand - and all of this because the key to this mystery certainly lies with her, she is a very special woman..."Kate McCann "had psychiatric problems for a long time", the specialist guarantees, and "now they have become worse". Cabrera retained an interview that Maddie's grandparents gave to the Spanish television recently: "In their innocence, they said that Kate had told them, some time before the disappearance, that the little girl was looking increasingly like herself, which from a psychiatric point of view means a lot..."For the Spaniard, the origin of a bad relationship between mother and daughter - that was reflected by the writings about Madeleine in Kate's personal diary - "which is highly significant" for all the specialists that have been following this case since early May".Gerry's greatest concern has been "to control his wife's impulses in public - and that was once again well demonstrated throughout this interview", says Jose Cabrera Fornero. "He is the one who dominates the entire situation, he knows everything and he knows he must control her and her problematic personality, so she does not exceed herself in front of the cameras and talks too much..."All the gestures and facial expressions "become fatal for someone who has something to hide" - this is dictated by the experience that was collected over the years by this specialist in forensic psychiatry. "And there is no way to avoid that."Nothing moves Jose Cabrera "against this couple", whom he does not know, but he defended the McCanns' guilt in the 'Pros & Contras' show on RTP, when the Policia Judiciaria confirmed their suspicions on the couple - and yesterday he reinforced his theory to CM, one day after Kate and Gerry chose Spain for their first interview after becoming arguidos.The English press itself confirmed yesterday that "70 percent of viewers that called Antena 3 believe the McCanns are lying", the online edition of the 'Daily Mail' announced.Jose Cabrera was not surprised: "Any English person is cold, but there is something more to her - her personality is not normal. And he makes an impression by only worrying about her answers..."(...)"The interview was a circus act": Moita Flores, criminologist, considers the interview was another act from the McCanns.Correio da Manha - What is your opinion about the McCanns during the interview they gave to Spanish television?Moita Flores - The whole thing looked like a circus act to me, duting which the couple repeated the usual commonplaces, once again escaping the essential. And once again they revealed that they have a lot to tell, but they don't want to...- During this interview to Antena 3, Kate shows herself a lot more emotional that usual.- But the curious thing was that even before this interview was made, it was known the lady was going to cry, which then happened. And she even managed to play the part well...- Do you believe there was image staging during this interview?- One should notice that it was known beforehand that the couple would take the opportunity to compliment the Portuguese police, which then happened...- Gerry looks confident that the DNA tests cannot incriminate them.- When he mentioned the tests, it was a silly reply to a docile interviewer. Everybody knows that DNA tests identify people, and they don't lie. But they do not condemn anyone on their own. That was miserable.- How can the couple's statements be defined?- It was an act that nobody believes in. After the kidnapping theory, now they insist on their innocence. An innocent person does not need this...
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:42:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
I would gladly be prosecuted so I could vent my spleen in defence in open court!!THE McCANNS UNINTENTIONALLY MURDERED THEIR DAUGHTER AND COVERED THE CRIME OR MADELEINE WAS DRUGGED AND DIED AND HERDEATH COVERED UP. THE McCANNS HAVE MISLED THE AUTHORITIES FROM DAY ONE AND CONTINUE TO DO SO>
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:43:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
Good Evening VivHope you are ok...Just got in so reading back x
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:43:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Atardi....Time will tell...I was banned from the daily express for my anti McCann posts and fall outs with Rosiopps..who I nicknamed Poxiroxi and her side kick mandz...I was infamous on the sky forum as a outspoken anti McCanner. AS you said we shall see.
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:45:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya HopeDid you have a good day out? Nice to see you back!Muldoon if you were a radical against that gruesome pair, then we should get on real well! Just about everyone who is against Kate and Gerry McCann seemed to get banned off the DE - very easy to fall out with Poxiroxi (like it) /Psycopops and Blandz and dear Doc christened her. Isnt it weird the way Bark55 has just disappeared - another alter ego perhaps. Someone said earler in reality there are seems to be about four of them!Blandz and Psycho are the two most obnoxious IMO (if they are two different people!) - choosing to try and link Mrs Bulger and Mrs Payne with the McCanns and even suggesting they were a bit negligent! - this was ultra offensive. Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:54:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
Hope4truth,How was your evening?Muldoon,Maybe you should post on Alsabella's site. There are former DE posters there also.What was your nickname on the DE?
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:56:00 PM PST
Louise said...
Viv,Where did I makes excuses for Huntley, I most certainly did not.My OPINION was that these two cases cannot be compared.Huntley was a pervert and a predator.Gerry is a man who's daughter is missing, of course he wanted to control and stay close to the investigation so would I. As for leaving Portugal once the tide turned so to speak, wise move, he had his wife and remaining children to think about, how could they possibly of continued living in that hostile enviroment.You do not know for sure what happened to Madeline and neither do I, sadly we are just speculating on a very tragic situation, but I will not compound a families misery by saying wicked things and I will not see them written without questioning them.
Friday, February 29, 2008 2:58:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Atardi...as always muldoon...ditto on the sky forum.There was another poster on the DE...Alroy..couldnt work out if he was pro or anti as he was kind of making jokes about Madeleines plight...I got banned yet he did not!!!
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:03:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Viv,How are you?I wonder if anyone knew this,as far as I can remember I never heard of Scotland Yard's involvement before.Have you?xx DFrom the 3A'sEnglish version30-08-2007Scotland Yard in the AlgarveBecause of Maddie caseMembers of the New Scotland Yard who have been in charge of the case in England have arrived in the Algarve.The three investigators, amongst them the head of the investigation in the UK, are in the Algarve to exchange views with the Portuguese investigative police and to evaluate the latest developments and define strategies regarding the case.A source linked to the investigation told SIC that the investigative police is still waiting on the results of the samples that were sent to the Birmingham laboratory. They refute news published on Thursday that assures that the UK lab was unable to reach any conclusion.And the video Links for the "bad feeling between the Portuguese police and British police because the PJ are accusing the British forensic experts of "botching the tests"http://videos.sapo.pt/KmOSzZ2YJEcZZawWdHP6http://videos.sapo.pt/CLqOgYCIaj04y72Zk1Hz
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:04:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
AtardiHow are you did you have a nice day?I went out from work for a meal it was really nice but I am to old to work all day and go out I am so tiered now LOL 37 and past it...xxx
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:07:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Blimey hope I wish I was as past it as you!Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:15:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya Dolores - how are you darling.Scotland Yard - sounds a bit spin - this is what the McCanns were demanding - that they took over. As far as I know it is a Detective Superintendent in charge at Leicester. But will go and check your links and come back.Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:18:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
VivSad isnt it I remember when I was about 18 feeling really sorry for people I worked with as they did not go out on a Friday and Saturday night. Now my first Friday out in younks and I cant handle it (we only went for a meal) I feel like I have been clubbing LOL...I am off to bed night all see you tomorrow xxx
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:25:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya DoloresThey are in Portuguese so I will post on Alsabella's site and see if she can give us the gist.Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:26:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
Hope4truth,I think you are tired because it was your last working day. (at least I hope so)
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:29:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya Hope I have a long memory and can recall when going out every single Fri/sat night was a must. Now I just manage to go for a meal here and there and if any younger mates suggest a night going around the town I am looking for an excuse! Nite darling - catch you tomorrowLuv Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:29:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
Atardi / vivYes it is because I have worked hard this week not because I am nearly 40 LOL take care see you tomorrow...Viv My daughters have a better social life than me LOL I am going out with one of my best friends tomorrow looking for a wedding dress for her then lunch I think I can cope with that...See you both tomorrow x
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:32:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Viv,Thanks,I tried to understand some of the langauge,but it's so different from Italian, some Spanish I can associate with.Anyway I am fine cara,I started my first day today on Champix.xx D
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:33:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
hope4truth,I hope you will have a nice day tomorrow.Don't think about your age.Just enjoy live.
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:39:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Hi Viv - Behave yourself! Madeleine hasn't got bruises on her legs in the tennis balls photo - she has Eczema!Look here:http://tinyurl.com/ypwv3bSadly, I only had a couple of mins to spare this evening so no time to read posts until tomorrow.Nite nite.Sue 23.45x
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:44:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya SueIt may be excema on her arm or untreated sunburn/burn but it is definitely really bad bruises on her legs. I do try to behave myself:-)Hiya Dolores is champix the new anti smoking drug - can you tell me bit about it - I hope you make it darling I am being really naughty again! Hope - wedding dress hunting and then lunch with anice friend sounds like good fun - I am sure you cope really well! My kids go clubbing - I threatened to go with them but to my amazement they called my bluff and then I had to think of an excuse!Luv to allViv x Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 3:51:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Viv,I saw my doctor yesterday to make sure it did not interfere with other meds I am on,He is very supportive and it'impotrtant I stop.If you type in 'champix varenicline' you can read more tha I have given you.I am on the tablets.Maybe you should think about this,for your health,darling. xx DChampix tablets contain the active ingredient varenicline, which is a medicine used to help people who are addicted to nicotine to give up smoking. It acts in the brain, but is not the same as nicotine replacement therapy.Varenicline is a type of medicine called a nicotinic acetylcholine receptor partial agonist. This means that it acts on the same receptors in the brain as nicotine does.Varenicline works by stimulating the nicotinic receptors in the brain. This produces an effect that relieves the craving and withdrawal symptoms you can get when you stop smoking. At the same time, varenicline blocks nicotine from acting on the receptors. This prevents any nicotine inhaled in tobacco smoke from having a rewarding and enjoyable effect. However, it is recommended that you don’t smoke while you are taking this medicine.
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:02:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Viv PS. it weans you of the smoking,its not a sudden treatment
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:04:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya again - Alsabella has given me gist of first video:alsabella said... The video is from a sic noticias newscast. Says that the results of forensic evidence are being awaited but are taking very long, and that Moita Flores feels that there are political pressures involved for this case not to be resolved.This was 3 weeks after results sent to the UK. Moita Flores feels it was a mistake to send the lab results to the UK. He says the forensic testing should not have been done neither in the UK or Portugal. That they should have been done in a third country not subject to pressures. Pressures from public opinion and from the press. Says that the UK press has manipulated reports of evidence that he believes e becoming more and more visible. He finds it strange that the UK press after so harshly criticising Portugal was not outside the FSS awaiting the results.He says that the only result that in the UK as a whole, in terms of impact of public opinion, the only thesis that they are interested in is abduction. Because it will be very difficult to explain all the power, all the "grandeur", and the power, the true power of UK communication assumes as a truth and insults a country, the police, and treats us as if we were the worst country in the world.(Gist of 1st video: http://videos.sapo.pt/KmOSzZ2YJEcZZawWdHP6-----------------Thanks for the info on champix - it sounds similar to subutex which helps heroin addicts that I used to work with!I will go back to my doc and ask for this. It is important for my health I do try to stop. I really wish you every success darling and know just how hard it is!Luv viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:07:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Viv,Thanks for the translation,They should have sent the dna to Italian Labs,look how quick thwey were in the Meridith murder.I really hope no nonsense is going on here with our Goverment it would be an injustice to Madeleine.The Google server has been down the last 15 mins.,So glad you are going to see your doc, we can do this together.I smoke up to 20 a day.How many do you smoke?xx D
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:41:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Is it fact that Madeleine was autistic? We dont actually know very much about Madeleine if you think about it. Not her favourie programme or food..nothing.Would be interested to know if anyone knows if Madeleine was indeed autistic?
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:49:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya darlingYes we got locked out! It is horrible the way UK press have insulted Portugal and only been interested in abduction theories - no matter how silly!I smoke about 20 day - sometimes even more. We should do this together and support each other!Luv Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:51:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Muldoon,There has been some rumour about Madeleine being autistic,But I do not know if it is true.Maybe someone else would know.
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:53:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya MuldoonI have not seen any substantiated evidence of her being autistic. Like you say we know very little about what she was like because whenever Kate has had the chance to tell us she cannot think of anything to say. Did you see the first interview with the McCanns that I posted on here - they were off the wall!I will have a look for it and post you a link. It is very interesting, particularly their insistence they knew right away she had been abducted - how on earth could they know that when they left her alone and they say ..subsequently with the door open. Any 4 year old could get up and walk out IMO.Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 4:56:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Viv,I am only going to be a fews days ahead of you on the tablets,my first day to day,and I notice already the craving has lessened.Each day day should get better.Do you have the same illness I haveperipheral vascular diseaseGo for it Viv,xxx d
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:00:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
In Kates shoes if she were telling the truth your first reaction on finding her missing would be to scream her name whilst running around like a headless chicken.You wouldnt know what to do other than panic.would like to see that interview...hey no one has really analysed the body language proffesionally of this pair have they? I did see voice recognition video on you tube which said they are definately not being truthful and are hiding things.I get the buzz kates mother knows its lies, her body language is pretty off, not like a concerned Grandmother at all...Never tears..it must run in that bunch to be callous and hard.
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:04:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya DoloresI do not have a proper diagnosis - I need to go for blood tests. It is just that when I went for follow up surgery to ankles he said the swelling was more to do with my heart than any ankle problems and they checked my BP which was 190 ovr 110 which is very high. I have never known it be that high before. Do your ankles swell up, chest pain?It is frightening - I get chest pain mainly only when I go to bed which seems weird! Also getting headaches which consultant said due to blood pressure. He was basically saying he will not operate on the other ankle until I stp smoking and have proper treatment for BP. I think I was just too inactive after the surgery to my ankle believing the swelling was ankle probs so just kept resting for hardened arteries/heart disease you need to keep walking not lying about so I got that so wrong!Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:05:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hi Muldoon whilst looking for that video I found this I previously posted. The first PR man Woolfall says Kate was adamant Maddie had just wandered off and yet on this video which was also in early May she is saying just the opposite - they are clearly telling some wicked lies - no one can be in any serious doubt they know exactly what happened to Maddie. The PJ may have a real job though proving which one. If it was Kate and she does suffer from bipolar or some other serious mental disorder they are such idiots not to have just admitted it because she probably would not have even gone to prison. Now they are both in far more serious trouble than they need have been. -----I saw Kate and Gerry McCanns’ despair and if they were acting they deserved an OscarThe PR expert who advised Madeleine's parents in the first weeks of her disappearance offers a new insight into their state of mindDominic KennedyGerry and Kate McCann’s on-screen composure in the days after their daughter disappeared was at odds with their turmoil and dread behind the scenes, a witness says today.The couple swung between uncontrollable distress and a determination to do what was needed to help to find Madeleine. They gave no indication that they thought she had been snatched, let alone by a paedophile. Their early assumption was that she had wandered off and had an accident or been taken in by a well-meaning stranger.Alex Woolfall, a public relations consultant for the holiday resort where the child disappeared, was with the McCanns regularly for that first fortnight and is convinced that they are innocent. “That they could be involved and in any way be guilty - to me they would have to win every Golden Globe and every Oscar ever awarded,” he told The Times.Mr Woolfall has provided the first detailed account by an insider of what happened to the McCanns during the desperate days after Madeleine disappeared. He is an expert in crisis PR at the communications group Bell Pottinger and flew to Portugal as part of the Mark Warner holiday company’s emergency response team on Saturday, May 5. Madeleine vanished on the evening of May 3.}Madeleine McCann: the key questions Why are the "Tapas 9" key to solving the Madeleine mystery?Related Internet LinksThe latest full coverage of Madeleine McCannBackgroundKate and Gerry McCann: Beyond the smears Victims of the rumour mill? Madeleine: one fact, many lies, endless grief Leaving children alone Pictures: searching for Madeleine-->Video: McCann family start holidayHe met the couple for the first time at their new apartment. “They were behaving exactly as I thought someone in that situation would be,” Mr Woolfall said. “They had not slept. They were trying to work out what to do that might help generate images of her. They were desperately keen to publicise her face.”The McCanns had photographs of Madeleine on their digital camera, which Mr Woolfall began transferring to a laptop computer. “I said to Kate, ‘Let’s try to identify pictures where her face is visible’. Downloading the images was a very difficult process for them. It was upsetting.“They were trying to do two things at once: one, emotionally deal with what was actually, really happening to them; two, operate in some sort of logical way to help get her back.”Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.The McCanns wanted to do more. “They were exhausted and despairing but thinking, ‘Should we go outside and say something that might get her back?’ They said they wanted to head downstairs and talk to the media. They were very tired, but that was one thing they were determined to do.”Mr Woolfall went out to alert journalists and returned to the McCanns. “They wrote down what they wanted to say and went out and gave a short statement. After that, they were completely spent. You could tell there was nothing left.”Mr Woolfall was surprised by the reaction of British viewers to the couple’s demeanour. “I was struck at the perception of people who had watched Kate and Gerry: that they were very controlled and perhaps were not responding in a way people thought would be more natural. They were not at all controlled. When I was with them, they were between being completely distraught and trying to do what they felt was the right thing.” Armchair detectives have leapt to wild conclusions based on the few alleged details of the case to have emerged. One bone of contention has been whether Mrs McCann, when raising the alarm that Madeleine was missing, screamed: “They’ve taken her.” Some have questioned why a mother would leap to the conclusion that a child had been abducted.Mr Woolfall says that he heard no suggestion in the early days that the girl had been snatched. “Certainly I did not hear any discussion that this could be a paedophile or an aggravated robbery. All the time I was around it was whether she could have wandered off and had an accident or somebody had actually taken her in, perhaps not with ill-intent.“During the first 48 hours the word being used was ‘missing’ rather than ‘abducted’ or any link with a paedophile or any sort of crime. Towards the end of the second week I detected a shift towards there being a consciousness that she had probably been taken rather than wandered off, just on the assumption that anybody would have found her by now.”Many theories have emerged from the claim that Madeleine’s twin sister and brother, aged 2, failed to wake or cry when she vanished. Mr Woolfall said he had not heard of the twins’ alleged silence until he read about it in a newspaper in Britain. The claim was attributed to the Portuguese police.There has even been a suggestion that Mrs McCann carried her daughter’s Cuddle Cat soft toy because it would look good on TV. “For that to have in any way validity, it would cancel out the fact that these two people hadn’t got a clue about PR or the media,” Mr Woolfall said. “To suddenly be that sophisticated . . . I noticed Kate often had this toy with her. It was Madeleine’s favourite toy and she would go to bed with it. Kate had it with her when she went to church. She had it in the apartment.”A lingering puzzle for many is why the couple left three children in the flat. “When I first got to Praia da Luz, I asked Mark Warner to put me in the chair at the tapas restaurant that they had sat in and show me where the apartment was,” Mr Woolfall said. “It never struck me that it would be a particularly odd thing to leave your children in that apartment, given that it was so close.“It is incredibly sleepy and quiet in Praia da Luz. There is no traffic noise. One day when he was standing on a balcony, Gerry was saying how they felt when they first came to the resort. The pool was close, supermarket round the corner. They felt everything was a stone’s throw.”The McCanns have sometimes irritated observers with the fervency of their do-it-yourself campaign. “When I came back there was criticism: why is this couple out there publicising this, doing interviews, going in front of cameras, going through photo opportunities? If you look at what would have happened in the UK, you would have had, probably within hours, a proactive intervention by British police, who would have said this is the process we now need to go through.“Kate and Gerry have been largely left to get on with it, with no support in the initial stages, or guidance. They realised the media were a huge potential ally.”Mr Woolfall recalled how the bewildered couple gradually began to recover their composure. “In the first week they were not thinking. They actually did not think. They were in shock.“In the second week, Gerry behaved very much like a doctor would do. Doctors are analytical. He started to have much more strategic conversations with me about what they might do. They became more aware that getting Madeleine’s photograph widely distributed in Spain and possibly North Africa was sensible.“Gerry said to me, ‘We don’t want the awareness that Madeleine has gone missing to disappear overnight, and that we are a family whose child went missing on holiday and that is the end of it. We want to try and find her.’ When I left Portugal, the beginnings of the idea of having a campaign were probably forming.“They were actually quite hopeful - far more in that frame of mind than despondent and downbeat. They had gone 360 degrees several times through all the different emotional states, but they soon got some good control on things.”Mr Woolfall left after a fortnight working from 5am to 1am, fending 200 calls a day from journalists as far away as Norway and South Africa. He warned the McCanns that they needed a press officer. “Gerry, I think, spoke to the Consulate and said ‘Can you help us? Because there is a lot of media interest and we cannot manage.’ As a result of that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office flew out Sheree Dodd [an experienced government spokeswoman].”At first, journalists treated the McCanns with great respect, but there was a free-for-all when the couple took their first unscheduled walk along the beach. “Freelance snappers started to get quite close to them and one or two questions were thrown at them. That was probably the very early stages of the change,” Mr Woolfall said. “It reached a crescendo when the McCanns tried to take their kids to the crèche and were bombarded by snappers and freelancers.”When the McCanns were made suspects, Mr Woolfall was bemused. “I thought it was ridiculous. I couldn’t believe it. Completely ludicrous.”Did you suspect them? “My God, no, absolutely not in any way at any stage. I walked into that apartment and just saw two people who were frantic that their daughter had gone missing. Nobody could possibly, if they had anything to do with that, behave in that way for so long.“It made me laugh rather than be exasperated. From Day One they could not move anywhere without 100 flash bulbs going off. The whole idea that they could have done any of thethings the police were suggesting was farcical.“You could not pick another couple on the planet that would have had that many cameras trained on them.”The McCanns’ helpersAlex Woolfall Head of crisis management for the Bell Pottinger Group. Flew to Portugal on behalf of Mark Warner on May 5.Sheree Dodd The former Daily Mirror journalist and long-serving senior government spokeswoman was deployed as a media liaison officer for the McCann family.Clarence Mitchell The former BBC News reporter was sent in by the Cabinet Office in May to provide “consular support”. He became the McCanns’ full-time spokesman last month. His £75,000 salary is met by Brian Kennedy, a millionaire.Justine McGuinness The Lib Dem activist was the McCanns’ first campaign manager. She is understood to have been exhausted by the 24-hour demands of the job and stood down in September.
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:09:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Muldoon,Iget the same feeling as yourself, that their family know the truth. In the interview they did in Spain,I did not see a tear her hair was slightly across her right eye she brushed it away,and no tears were coming out of the left eye,at the same time.Ithink they are a cold and calculating family.
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:12:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hi again Muldoonhere it is:McCanns first interview with Jane HILL BBC News - watch her body language - she plainly does not believe the McCanns!http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6690000/newsid_6692900/6692935.stm?bw=bb&mp=wmViv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:13:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya again both, I have to say I am veering back to think it was Kate again, particularly after such a good post by Wizard. I jst cannot forget Kate's mum on Panorama speaking spontaneously about what Gerry was like on the phone to her but when it came to kate there was an agonising long pause and then she just said well obviously she was upset. This certainly seemed like very defensive behaviour plus she has spoke out in the press a number of times doing so quite openly (as opposed to Gerrys sisters etc on forums). If we have the insight to be pretty certain what happened then imagine what Mrs Healy must know. I am sorry but if it was my child who had done that the only way I woul support her is in confessing to the police. This would in fact being cruel to be kind. Having this hanging over her head is obviously not doing Kate any good at all, unlike Gerry who can just compartmentalise and get on with his life.Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:20:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Felicity..Good post, have read before but now on re reading wonder if they were initially gutted at what had happened but then got in to self preservation mode and started to guild the lily and make sure they were always in control?Dolores the whole bunch of them seem utterly f***** up to me..The grandmother is as hard as nails. You dont hear much from her husband though, Mrs Heally is the one in the one wearing the pants there.
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:22:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Viv,I have very high BP.and have 4 pills a day for that.I also have thyroid problem.He recommends 1aspirin a day to thin the blood.No chest pains.My legs get very painful from back of calf,after walking 3 mins.and goes into the hips.I need to stop for a few minutes and regain my strength to continue.I try to walk through the pain,but it's so hard.Why did the doc not start you on BP pills immediately?You really need to be on those.xx D
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:27:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Viv forgot to mention the specialist on Tuesday put me on Simvastatin,to help with the arteries, I feel like a blooming junkie,shake me and I rattle.xxD
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:33:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hi Dolores - what a pair ! I have started to take aspirin because I remember it being on the news this can save a heart attack. My legs feel tender in the front of the calf. I can walk better now and push myself to do so. He said he wanted the blood results first - I think he should have put me on the pills anyway. Did give me water tabs and to stop taking NSAIDS salty food etc. Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:36:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Muldoon - did you hear on the video Kate McCann admit she never even went out and looked for Maddie! And Gerry click his tongue (like Kate does when asked an awkward question) when he was asked why no private investigators with the fund money click well that was just an outlet for people who wanted to send us money and it has enabled us to get a good LEGAL TEAM - how the heck was that going to find Maddie - this couple really are incredible!Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:39:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
At 1.53 in that tape as Gerry talks of Madeleine being chased by the pool, Kates smile is more of a grimace in comparison to Gerry's smiling which seemed effortless.5.06 kate is clearly speechless when asked if she as a mother wanted to physically search...her answer comes over as a lame excuse.Still no sign of any sorrow. Whereas i am again crying because of the last picture..I try to avoid looking at her picture, even now it makes me cry...How they remained so blase is beyond me.
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:43:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
God I hate that pair!
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:44:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Hey Felicity, do you think they will be charged? And do you think we will ever know what the exact evidence the pj have against them?
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:46:00 PM PST
dolores said...
VivI rememeber when G got annoyed that he could not use the fund money for legal purposes, I will find that article tomorrow.What a pair right enough,couple of old crocks...lolxx D
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:47:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hi MuldoonYOur feelings of repulsion are understandable. Di you catch Gerr right at the end of the tape - cursing and muttering - he is rather good at that sort of thing when he thinks the camera or mike got turned off! In relation to them being charged there might be an issue as to which one actually killed Madeleine but conspiracy to pervert the course of justice/disposing of the body/fraud yes I think they will.Viv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:50:00 PM PST
dolores said...
MuldoonYou know I cant even bear to see their faces,I absolutley hate the way they neglected those babies night after night in the dark and alone,never knowing if one fell out of bed,etc., and poor sweet Maddie paid the price.Why was Kate so sure Madeleine would not get out of bed that night,was she sedated or constrained.They make me sick.xx
Friday, February 29, 2008 5:54:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya both I am sure they will go down in history for their gruesome behaviour and just as much so the most staggering campaign to try and spin themselves out of trouble and make millions in the process. There are no words..but denial, minimisation of their neglect and manipulatation has certainly increased public loathing of themViv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 6:00:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
its sickening. The longer it goes on the sadder I feel. I am concerned at the level of interference from high up places on the McCanns behalf. I am concerned that they will not be prosecuted and we will never know what truly happened to Madeleine.I cant bare to think she will never be found, I know she is dead but it seems so important that she is found. I think if she was found the national outpouring of grief would not far off match the grief at the death of Diana.It will be a bitter sweet day, bitter that she is gone for sure and sweet that she has at last been found.
Friday, February 29, 2008 6:00:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
Wouldnt people consider a rally about the interference of the british goverment on this?I watched a true crime earlier abouth killer who murdered 4 kids and two were found alive...The whole country..300 000 people marched in angerat the goverment cover up.
Friday, February 29, 2008 6:03:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya MuldoonI would not worry about this case being covered up now IMO - there are far too much in the public domain for that. It would seem there were officers from Scotland Yard in Portugal in October - this is a measure of just how seriously this case really is being taken.As Irina would say - Justice will be done!Nite Nite bothViv x
Friday, February 29, 2008 6:04:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
And the twins will grow up as the chlildren of the murdering sods who killed their daughter on holiday.Its not on, Madeliene paidthe highest price...the twins will pay the next yet the mCCanns are sitting pretty.
Friday, February 29, 2008 6:06:00 PM PST
muldoon said...
gnight...
Friday, February 29, 2008 6:06:00 PM PST
dolores said...
Viv Muldoon nite nite sleep in peacexx
Friday, February 29, 2008 6:06:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Nite Nite bothrest wellx
Friday, February 29, 2008 6:13:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Here is translation of second video compliments of the lovely Alsabella:Second video:http://videos.sapo.pt/CLqOgYCIaj04y72Zk1HzSays that the police has been waiting 21 days for the results. And that the investigations depend on those results.3 weeks earlier, 21 days that the officers have been waiting. But Portuguese press is not consensual on the delay.Correio da Manha said that the Judiciary was in the hands of the English and cites sources within the investigation as being unhappy with the lack of information.A PJ Inspector has even admitted that this may put into question future enquiries due to the fact that the analysis has still not arrived in Portugal.Amongst there worries, is the McCanns wish to return to the UK.After going back, the McCann will only return for additional enquiries should they so deem.Diario de Noticias reports against the conspiracy theory and names a former PJ Scientific Lab Director says that this is normal when in question are deteriorated samples and that the independence of the laboratory cannot be put into question. Moita flores on the other hand, does not understand how a lab of this prestige would even allow such suspicions and the delay in providing results.The McCanns should themselves more irritated with the speculation. Kate lost their cool halfway through an interview for a spanish tv channel. Gerry walked out when asked questions about blood found in the OC apartment.01 March 2008 00:11
Friday, February 29, 2008 6:19:00 PM PST
2345 said...
Kate or Gerry ? People seem to assume PJ believe it was Kate not Gerry despite Gerry's reported comment of "find the body and charge us/me". This challening comment suggests that both parents were interviewed under equal suspicion on 7 September. Kate's behaviour under stress does appear different from Gerry's. The video of the Christmas appeal -heaving chest due to severe nerves shows she struggles with acting out ridiculous scenarios. Gerry had no qualms; no moral or social conscience.Though never admitted,I was suspended for one week by DE after a reasoned discussed with others than Gerry's quick rage/loss of control (witnessed in TV interview) showed him equally, if not more liable for the fatality.This upset trolls big time; for over a week during which time I was ripped to shreds. For this reason alone, it confirmed that my reasoning was correct. Threat of legal intervention led to my reinstatement, without which I believe I would have been permanently banned.As we all know, any commentator close to or arriving at the truth in this case is always made to pay.Kate typifies a wife playing second fiddle to her husband's ambitions and demands. He appears as a petulant indulged child (by females, mother, sisters) making him a self centred, somewhat arrogant adult. Fatherhood to him is a secondary role to his moneymaking aspirations. He may well believe raising children is the woman's "job".In many respects, Kate has my sympathy. My mother was married to a character like Gerry and her life was a hellish struggle raising 3 small children (including twins). Her self worth and confidence took a sever bashing; a feature I can identify with in Kate. Last, but not least Kate (as the guilty party) raises sympathy which would not exist with Gerry as the culprit. A father harming a daughter is one of the worst possible crimes in many peoples' minds - abhorrent - accidental or not. I still believe Gerry is using Kate to save his own skin and reputation. She's frightened to be herself or open her mouth in his presence. 8.35 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 12:33:00 AM PST
Niki said...
Gerry's Blog Day 302: 29/02/2008 It has been a relatively quiet week for us. We did hear from the UK police that the French have officially ruled out the reported sighting of Madeleine in Montpellier. It is disappointing that it took so long, particularly after the widespread coverage the reported sighting received in the media. Today Kate and I met with representatives of two UK charities involved in missing and abducted children. Missing People is the largest UK non-governmental organisation involved in this area and a member of Missing Children Europe. The introduction of a Europe wide child alert system is strongly supported by both organisations. Missing People have also applied to run the 116 00 number, which has been reserved throughout the EU as a missing child hotline. Missing People were responsible for displaying Madeleine’s image on Marble arch, along with 2 other missing children last summer. It was heartening to hear today that one of those children was recovered as a direct result and the other has also been successfully returned to his family. PACT (parents and abducted children together) is a much smaller organisation founded by Catherine Meyer. PACT is positioned primarily as an advocates for change in how missing children cases are handled and identified very early how poorly data on missing and abducted children are collected. PACT would like to see a national centre in the UK similar to NCMEC in the USA. It was uplifting to see how Catherine has maintained her passion, drive and commitment to try and make effective changes even after ten years of campaigning. Kate and I will work with the various non-governmental organisations to influence the policy makers who decide these important decisions.---Don't belive my eyes! The world is talking about the new questening, and Gerry talkes about charity! Yes, agree that missing and abused children need much more attention and systems to do so, but maybe not yet with your help Mr. McCann?First you have to stop all the lies! Children needs honest people they can trust 150%!!Niki
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:26:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Louise,Huntley attached himself to the Police throughout their investigation. He did so because of fear stemming from guilt.Likewise, due to guilt and fear, the McCanns have expressed a wish to know the content of PJ's dossier of evidence; additional findings since being presented with damning forensics on 7 September including .... "A a certain blood spray .. commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx .. some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". The publicly broadcast FSS information was, firstly, made known to the McCanns.As a result of the above they fled Portugal and PJ. This supports guilt. 9.55 a.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:51:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Viv/muldoon,I've seen lots of information on 3 A's regarding autism/charges syndrome. The theory is it's a McCann ploy to cast Madeleine as a 'very difficult' child to cope with. This is their response to PJ's interest in contents of Kate's diary, i.e. struggling mother.The coloboma has been 'added'; there are photo's on 3 A's showing a perfectly normal right eye. The defect unendingly referred to by McCanns' PR is what 80 - 90% of sufferers of Charges Syndrome have.Madeleine shows none of the other symptoms, i.e. raised bridge of nose, over curved forehead etc.If you cast your minds back, the diary contents featured strongly from early in the case - hence the doctoring of publicity photo's.Docmac pointed out, this defect can be used by the mother's use of "coke" during pregnancy. There are, however, photos of a blemish free R eye on 3 A's. Also, Interpol document - identifying marks says "small dot on iris" - no mention of coloboma !! These details would have been given immediately after Maddie's disappearance - long before the content of Kate's diary became an issue of interest to PJ.It suits Kate's defence to imply Madeleine suffered a disorder.10.10 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:05:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Louise,Forgot to mention, in the Sohom case Huntley's behaviour was far less suspicious than Maxine Carr's who lied on his behalf. She was not, however, involved in the abuse or killing - only the clean up and giving a false alibi.Maxine was an uncomfortable liar, Huntley was not. 10.10 a.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:09:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Morning Viv, it's a visit to Specsavers for you I think ;-)Sx
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:15:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Anonymous,It's standard practice for British Police to liaise with the media and broadcast information in criminal investigations, as the Jersey case shows.In Madeleine's case, BBC were alerted and despatched Jane Hill (BBC News 24 reporter) to Luz for live coverage of breaking news; the day the parents were interviewed and names 'arguido's.Transcript of broadcast outside Police Station:"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". The above was presented to the parents prior to BBC broadcast on 6o'clock news. It was not released in Portugal or by PJ. British Police acted in the public's best interest; FSS information showed fraud was also involved, i.e. the McCanns had raised £1.3 m under false pretences. The information released was a 'wake up' call to prevent further people being conned.Reports in DE article regarding wheel well specimens referred to 100% DNA match to Madeleine's hairs & 88% body fluid (not bodily)DNA match. Another DE article did report bodily fluid - namely spinal fluid (aka cerebal) along with blood on parents' bedroom wall and curtain reportedly scrubbed with cleaning fluid.Leicester Police as well as PJ had FSS results. British Police work in the public's best interests as well as the victim's, in this case, Madeleine. 10.20 a.m. P.S Apologies to those who've read this before.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:17:00 AM PST
Niki said...
Hi 2345 and everybody.I still have this thoughts of Madeleine having got hold of some drugs and died from an overdose...If she did, would it be possible, as the parents trying to rescue her, that they injured her, or that she fell and fractured her skull?I had this idea of Viagra or other stimulating drugs because I thought Kate had had a drugtest?With the information from Docmac though, I do belive that coke might have been around...(It's such a common party-drug! I did not belive it until a secret securety friend told me, and said that most users are 30-40 years old)If there were drugs around, and that it implicates some of the other Tapas7, that would be why they are all so quiet! Also, rich helpers...Real estate around the world is often laundry machines for Mafia...(When I was 18 years old I worked with time-share at Costa del Sol and Gran Canaria, I'm still thinking I was lucky that I got out of it safe and sound!)--Have a nice month! (In Greece we wish eachother Good day, Good week and Good month)Niki 12.16
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:19:00 AM PST
hope4truth said...
2345Maxine Carr has had her life ruined by Huntley (and what she did by lying for him when the poor parents were desprate for news was indeed very very wrong and she deserved to go to jail)...However people have called for her to be hung she has had her identty changed and will run forever because of her lies.She would not have been able to prevent what happend as she was not there so the blame lies firmly with Huntley.He is a controlling individual who now in prisn has to have his gaurd changed regularly as he has a way of getting to people (I think to get them to do what he wants) so if educated prison guards stand no chance against this foul man a dimwit like carr does not either...That stupd woman has ruined her own life to lie for that scum but what worries me more is the first time I saw her I thought she does not seem very inteligent (did not think she knew anything) yet a school had allowed her to be a teaching assistant how are these people chosen???Oh 2345 I am not telling you the above because you dont know was just replyig to your post I know I am not telling you anything new (reading back I sound bosy) LOLI have not got time to change is as I am off to look at wedding dresses with one of my best friends (bet I cry)...See you all later xxx
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:22:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Good morning Dolores - re: BP etc. I thought you were describing me! But, I've just discovered something that may do the trick - Beetroot Juice! It hit the news a couple of weeks ago and although it's early days, I'm pleased to report it seems to be working. There's a report on the NHS site:http://tinyurl.com/yqf7ouSue 10.25--
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:26:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Viv,Louise's comments reflect the same attitudes in the Jersey case. She has no interest in the truth or the suffering of children.She's party to the 'cover up' in Madeleine's case deployed for the sole purpose of defending the reputation of the guilty.You'll be pleased to know that the Police are continuing to make good progress in Jersey. A former member of staff has come forward and directed them to three hidden chambers underneath a concealed trap door. The conscience of one person at least has moved him/her to do the right thing. A further tip off has led to several other sites in the grounds. The police are urging all those abused as children to come forward. 10.30 a.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:34:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
My husband has a pupil that rund in to the iris. His father and some of his siblings have it. He has no other symptoms of anything wrong...Its just a mark.If there was celebral fluid found, Madeleine would have had to have sustained a horrific injury, which means she must have had a hell of a clout. Maybe the reports of Madeleine having fallen down those concrete steps while looking for her oparents is what happened...And then because they didnt want to be exposed as two people abandoning kids resulting in the death of one of them.Do you know what....the one thing that makes me think maybe they did not do it is, how normal and undisturbed they were at dinner that night. No nerves or distress...thats the thing cant get my head around.I watched a programme about a belgian paedo who/s crimes were covered up by the police as it was not just the work of one man it was a massive paedophile ring.I still think Murat Malinka and Michaela are dodgy, they allhad access to the complex. Could it be that the McCanns are telling the truth and that the p.j purposefully scuppered the investigation?There is still the issue of the lack of guilt or distress in the McCanns mind you..thats hard to explain away.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:59:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
The Dutroux case has led to mass protests in Belgium over police and legal incompetence. It emerged during the trial that police had searched the house three times, but failed to locate the captives. The BBC's Ray Furlong, in Arlon, says the police bungling of the investigation, along with the fact that Mr Dutroux was let out early after being convicted of five other rapes in the 1980s, gave rise to allegations that there was a wider paedophile conspiracy involving prominent government officials. Prosecutors said they had found no evidence of such a conspiracy. (Extract from the dutroux case.)Not saying the MCCanns are innocent asking what anyone thinks of a scenario where the pj are covering a paedo ring?
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:08:00 AM PST
dolores said...
Anonymous,Thank you for the link ie., beetroot juice.My husband read something about this.I really like beetroot,so I will save the juice in future.TY once more.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:08:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Viv,Reading last night's posts, it's struck me that the long delayed forensic results were likely due to the same Government interference and deliberate hindrance caused to Rogatory Letters.The arrival of the cadavers must have caused Gerry to reach for the beta blockers and clean underwear. The time taken in the apartment and vehicle alerted him to the fact that forensic evidence was not only found, but also removed for analysis. In turn, this must have alarmed to minister's involved with the McCanns.I smell as big a rat with delaying damning forensic results as the 4 month hold up implemented by the Government with the Rogatory Letters. The length of time PJ were kept waiting for the results is as questionable as the Letters. Given FSS hi-tech equipment results were well out of normal timescale, weren't they?I'm certain the public and PJ were fed a load of b....sh.t; contaminated or not, they were, I'm certain delayed under orders from Government.I thought that Gerry had probably lied to everyone at Government level bar those directly involved in the handling and disposal of Maddie. Whether Brown and his cronies did or not know the truth, the fact that forensics had been handed to FSS after deployment of cadavers must have set alarm bells ringing with the parents' guilt.Brown was also aware of the BBC broadcast of damning forensics on 7September. Yet still the Government remained involved as their handling of Rogary Letters confirms; Home Office e-mail flatly denied it was their domain.In short, the depth of the cover up/delaying tactics on behalf of and for the benefit of the prime suspects is worse than any of us realized. This is identical to the Jersey case; the official report highlighting the guilt of those responsible for childrens' welfare was swept under the carpet to protect Jersey's 'image'.Those aiding and abetting the McCanns have done exactly the same ... I'm certain this is the reason forensics were delayed for as long as possible. Spin - "to draw out, to prolong, to confound and confuse". Labour's & the McCanns' mantle.11.10 a.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:09:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Hopetruth,I hope the wedding dress shopping was a success. I always enjoy your posts and we all need to give vent to our feelings in this sordid, corrupt case !! 11.15 a.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:11:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
The sinister Marc Dutroux cover-up (part three)Loading ...This is the final part of our Marc Dutroux investigation. Read part one here and part two here.Paedophile Dutroux’s support system in law enforcement and legal circles came into their own as the case wound up. I think it’s important to place these facts out in the open once more for public evaluation because much information is buried in “conspiracy” sites. In April 1996, Dutroux ended his four-month sentence for car theft and promptly carried on where he had left off. As we saw in part two, Operation Othello, the watching of his house, had been called off by police officer Rene Michaux. This man had been down to the dungeon himself and heard the screams of the two then-alive girls. He had ignored and even hushed up the screams, according to the locksmith who accompanied him. Years later in court, Michaux claimed that he thought the cries were coming from outside, in the street!The face of this sinister police officer bears that strange flicker of evil that paedophiles are prone to exhibit. He played a central role in keeping attention away from Dutroux when the latter started abducting girls. By calling off the watching of his house, he kept up his good work by clearing the way for Dutroux to continue. Dutroux didn’t waste any time. Within a month of his release, he abducted 12-year-old Sabine Dardenne. Her disappearance was to remain a mystery to the police. Small wonder, as an outgoing magistrate hadn’t even bothered to inform her replacement of the ongoing missing girls’ cases. In August 1996, 14-year-old Laetitia Delhez was abducted. Dutroux claimed later in court that it was for “company” for his other captive. This time the community swung into action and the local police force became passionately involved in the search, a definite departure from the behaviour we’ve seen of their compatriots in other regions. The result was that information about a suspicious van came forward. A match was obtained to Dutroux through a partially remembered licence plate. He had finally been caught.Dutroux led them to his dungeon early on a Monday morning. The 14-year-old who had been abducted six days earlier was found. The discovery of the other girl who had been there for two months was surprising to some. As the girls were freed from the cage, they ran to hug and kiss Dutroux, who apparently enjoyed the moment. They had been brainwashed into thinking that Dutroux was protecting them from “bad people”. These were now the bad people that had arrived to come get them.It is important to highlight the role of the investigative Judge, Jean-Marc Connerotte. He was apparently instrumental in securing the arrest of Dutroux and greatly admired by the public when it became clear he was practically a lone ranger surrounded by criminal incompetence. In August, Connerotte appealed for other victims of paedophile rings to come forward with testimony.Thirty-three-year-old Regina Louf responded. She described various orgies she had attended in her youth in detail and named a prominent Belgian businessman, Jean-Michel Nihoul, as the chief organiser. She had also seen a young Dutroux there. She described a house in detail and a murder she had seen at a “sex slave” party in 1984. Dutroux alleged from the beginning that he was not acting alone, saying that Nihoul was the actual “brains” of the operation. The authorities were determined not to believe him.Here’s how an Observer reporter, who did an excellent piece in 2002, described her meeting with Nihoul prior to his arrest: “During the course of our meal he, apparently playfully, grabbed me, tickling, and finally pulled me over on to him in the restaurant booth until I had to appeal to my colleagues for rescue.”He had greeted her by saying he was the “monster of Belgium”.A playful monster, in other words.“He has all but dared the state to prosecute him,” said the BBC, “claiming that he is beyond the reach of the law because he has information that, if made public, ‘would bring the government and the entire state down’.” In custody Nihoul confessed to “organising an orgy at a Belgium chateau, which several government officials, police officers and a former European commissioner attended”.As victims started coming forward and confessing to sexual abuse in their youth and the same names kept popping up, the notion that Dutroux was acting alone was becoming less and less credible. The media were obviously in full swing by now, with the “House of horror” headlines we can all remember.By mid-October, the citizens of Belgium were stirred to public outrage as details of the police mismanagement started appearing. “The Justice Ministry was sitting on a politically sensitive list of customers of paedophile videotapes,” said a report in the Los Angeles Times at the time. This list drifted into obscurity.What tipped public outcry into mass protest was when “the investigative Judge in the Dutroux case, Jean-Marc Connerotte, was dismissed. Many Belgians viewed Connerotte as a hero because he secured the arrest of Marc Dutroux and collected significant evidence against him that would help convict Dutroux and those in his paedophile ring. “Belgium’s Supreme Court removed Connerotte because he attended a fund-raising dinner, which was organised to help in the search for missing children. It was later decided that his attendance at the fund-raising event caused him to lose his objectivity when investigating the Dutroux case.” The suspicious dismissal of Connerotte led to a remarkable march. Called the White March, it was the biggest public demonstration in Belgium since the Nüremberg trials. The public were given strong reassurances by the government of a shake-up of the police system and justice triumphing.But this was not forthcoming. In fact, the opposite tendency was already gaining momentum, silently, away from public statements. The removal of Connerotte complete, the network set to work at discrediting the testimony of Regina Louf. As mentioned, Louf had supplied details of a murder she had witnessed at a party attended by Dutroux and Nihoul. Said the Observer: “Christine van Hees’s body had been found in 1984 dumped in the grounds of a disused mushroom farm on the outskirts of Brussels. The farm was later demolished, but in 1996 Louf described to the police team its intricate details, the wallpaper, the sinks, hooks on the ceiling, a network of stairs and adjoining rooms unique to that building.”A man who grew up at the farm, the son of the former owner, showed the Observer reporter photographs of the house and the mushroom factory. “He said: ‘I have never met Regina Louf. All I know is that she could not have described the house as well as she did unless she’d been there. It was two houses joined together in a strange way. It would be impossible to invent it.’” For 12 years the unsolved murder of Van Hees gathered dust in the Brussels files under the direction of Judge Van Espen. Two years ago, a Belgian journalist revealed the close relationship between Van Espen and Nihoul and his then wife. As a lawyer, Van Espen had represented Nihoul’s wife. Van Espen’s sister was the godmother of Nihoul’s child. Yet, when Louf accused these two of the murder, Van Espen saw no conflict of interest and no reason to resign. Nor was he sacked, as Connerotte had been. Instead he was allowed to order the police officers to stay out of the case. Van Espen only resigned as the judge in charge of the mushroom-factory investigation in early 1998 after his relationship with Nihoul was exposed.A strange co-incidence, isn’t it? No wonder it was so important to discredit Regina Louf, as she had evidence that not only connected Dutroux to Nihoul, but also Nihoul to very prominent judicial officials. In its response, the network didn’t disappoint, coming out guns blazing. Observer: “In the spring of 1997, Louf’s interrogators had been sent home without explanation and a new team was assigned to ‘reread’ her testimony. The press was briefed that the previous team had been removed because they had manipulated the evidence of Louf, who was then known by the code name X1. It is a charge which the police team has always vigorously denied and which has never been substantiated.”But they weren’t finished yet.“And then the media campaign began. Louf’s name was leaked to the press. The government-owned TV station RTBF began a campaign designed to prove that Dutroux was an ‘isolated pervert’ kidnapping girls for himself, that there was no network, that Nihoul was innocent and Louf was a liar. “Belgium’s flagship current-affairs television programme, Au Nom de La Loi , floated Louf’s face over a backdrop of crows pecking over debris orchestrated by a Blair Witch-style soundtrack. Her ageing parents appeared as tragic victims of a deranged fantasist, whose false memories had blighted their last years.”“What the programme makers knew but didn’t say was that the parents had already admitted to police that a family friend in his 40s, Tony van den Bogaert, had had a key to their home and unlimited access to their 12-year-old daughter. Nor did they tell their viewers that Van den Bogaert had himself admitted his relationship with Louf to police. “Van den Bogaert lives freely on the borders of Belgium and Holland unmolested by the law or the press. Au Nom de La Loi has never attempted to track him down and expose this self-confessed paedophile. Instead it has devoted hours of airtime to destroying the name of his victim, Louf, whose only offence appears to be that she was prepared to testify about the organised abuse she’d suffered as a child. “This campaign has succeeded. Judges have announced that Louf will not be called as a witness in any future trial of Dutroux or his associates. Her testimony and that of all the 10 witnesses who came forward to Judge Connerotte has been declared worthless.” “Even the Prosecutor General of the Dutroux case, Anne Thily, seems to have been in on the shady action, saying that Louf was a ‘fantasist’ and had ‘invented everything’. “Connerotte’s replacement, Judge Langlois, also parked his car in the same garage, because he blatantly refused permission for the hairs gathered in Dutroux’s dungeon to be sent for DNA analysis ‘despite pressure from his prosecutor, Michel Bourlet, who believed that a DNA identification of those hairs might reveal who else was involved’.”His boss Thily backed him all the way.“There was no need to get the hairs analysed as no one else entered the cage,” she said. “There was no network so there was no need to look for evidence of one.”What ingenious rubbish. Bad scriptwriters wouldn’t even be able to come up with something like this.“In any case,” she continued, “the hairs have all now been analysed — all 5 000.”And the results of this analysis? asked the Observer reporter.“Nothing.” Thily flashed a “triumphant” smile at the reporter. She concluded: “No evidence of any relevance in the Dutroux affair. Which proves, of course, that Langlois was right all along.”The Observer reporter had done her homework.“Sources central to the investigation confirm that to date the hairs have still not been analysed.” The reporter caught Thily out again when she said that “the bodies were too decomposed to test for DNA”. “The autopsy states clearly that the bodies were not decomposed,” said the reporter. “Samples were taken. But no one seems to know what has happened to the results.”So yes, the picture by now had gotten much murkier, with a return to the former “incompetence” that had so tragically been manifested before. The Dutroux case had been hijacked yet again, this time by the chief prosecutor. Behind the scenes, the murder of potential witnesses was occurring by now. Publicly the cause of death was all declared “suicide”. Things take a rather macabre turn when you hear that even Nihoul’s dentist committed “suicide”.But back to the official side of the case. Here, under the dodgy auspices of Judge Langlois of “no DNA” fame, the investigation took on another pace altogether. The citizens of Belgium were basically being dealt a collective slap in the face as the trial stalled and crawled along — for another eight years. Here’s the excuse for the delay. The Observer: “The official explanation for the delay is that hysterical conspiracy theories forced investigators to search for paedophile networks which didn’t exist.”Oh, there we go again. Dutroux acted alone. “But far from being investigated, leads pointing to a network seem rather to have been ignored or buried.”Even though Dutroux “acted alone”, he still apparently had some friends willing to lend a hand, because in 1997 the prison “allowed Dutroux to leave the building to consult files that would be used in his upcoming trial”. Dutroux used the opportunity and “overpowered a police officer that was guarding him, and escaped for three hours”.As late as March 18 2004, “a handcuff key was found in Dutroux’s cell, apparently smuggled in a salt bag. Prison authorities were accused to trying to arrange Dutroux’s escape.”The year 2004 finally saw the sentencing of Dutroux. He obviously — or under the circumstances, perhaps one should say surprisingly — got a life sentence. His ex-wife Michelle Martin, the woman who stopped feeding the youngsters in the dungeon because she was “afraid of them”, got 30 years. Accomplice businessman Michel Lelievre got 25 years. The monster of Belgium, Nihoul, got a mere five years. He must have been thrilled. That means, by the end of the year, he’ll be back among us.The aftermath of this whole affair leaves one with a troubling picture of how dark deeds can flourish in very influential circles. It’s surely little comfort to the bereaved families to know that the full picture of this monstrous episode may never fully emerge. If indeed Dutroux was part of a much bigger network, as seems likely when one looks at the evidence, then most of its members escaped detection. It seems bizarre to think that such a network can exist and include politicians and other highly placed members of society. It takes quite some machinery to deflect the outraged attention of an entire country. But they managed it. By 2002, the citizens who had taken part in the march were no longer being hailed but called a “mob” in certain newspapers. The rehabilitation had been exhaustively applied.Dutroux acted alone! That’s the official version that wants to house itself in our collective memory. The journalists who pierced the fabric of this complicated cover-up and exposed the dishonesty reeling in its wake have done their community a great service. We can be lucky that we live in a time when it is more difficult to conceal facts than a few decades ago. And yet so much remains unanswered, buried in the pile of yesterday’s papers. The general public don’t hold their interest for long, as we’re seeing with the Madeleine McCann saga.It’s bitter to discover that Rene Michaux, the police officer who took that fateful trip down the stairs to the dungeon and heard the screams, was never even charged. He’s almost 60 now and is probably hoping to take his secrets to his grave.The others who were involved appear, for the time being, to have gotten away with it. Many of them may even be flourishing in state and judicial circles all over Europe, which might explain why the McCann investigation has been such a tragic mess.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:13:00 AM PST
2345 said...
muldoon,Apartment forensics rule out any possibility of Madeleine's death due to a fall down exterior staircase. All forensic specimens were released from her body within not outside the apartment.There was obviously an overwhelming need to prevent post mortem examination of Madeleine.This alone supports the guilt of the parent responsible. 11.17 a.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:15:00 AM PST
2345 said...
muldoon,Such a pity the Police didn't use dogs trained to find hidden live people in the Dutroux case. They can always smell what the human eye cannot see. Did you know the FBI use Eddie & Keela in difficult cases ? They are becoming quite a pair of celebrities and very well deserved. 11.20 a.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:20:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
Could it be there is a paedo ring operating...Madeleine was taken as easy target as the parents had a habit of leaving her alone...Did the pj purposefuly make a pigs ear of investigating and closing borders intentionally and not because they are bungling coppers!!Are the leaks to the press just tactics to muddy the waters? Is the goverment intervention...Gordon Brown and co becuse they know of these rings operating? I know the Dutroux post I done was long, but it has similar aspects...bungling cops etc. I like the idea of a white march though...
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:22:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
hey Im not convinced the McCanns are innocent, I had them marked as guilty not long after I clapped eyes on them first. And them blogs!!I just dont like the the even slightest chance of madeleine or indeed any child being held by these paedos...And the leaked forensics could be part of a cover up..or no way? Argghhh. Even if Madeleine is not with paedos and did die at the hands of that pair of ArSEholes, there are children in that predicament.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:28:00 AM PST
2345 said...
anonymous,I notice the McCanns have not sued or won a case against BBC for the damning content of Jane Hill's report on 7 September; nor have they sued or won a case against PJ for libellous evidence presented at interview. 12.35 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:33:00 AM PST
2345 said...
muldoon,Eddie & Keela & Leicester Police have been shown NOT to be 'bungling cops' in this case or the other 200 where hard evidence of death has been found an analyzed.Cadavers, the best available, were deployed for a specific purpose on Madeleine's behalf. They were 100%successful, as usual. Only those associated with the parent responsible has a problem accepting the simple truth. 12.40 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:39:00 AM PST
2345 said...
muldoon,But for ongoing Government interference since 3 May, the Rogatory Letters would not have suffered a four month delay. This was in addition to delaying forensic results.The highly questionable political involvement in this case has prevented PJ requestioning people much sooner. 12.45 pm.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:45:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
2345....so what about a demo or petition about this?...Demanding an explanation..We can do nothing or do something..In belguim over 300 000 marched about the cover up there..Anonymous said... This blog is illegal, the contents are so libellous a legal team must be having a field day.Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:14:00 AM PST
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:50:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
sorry my last bit of post was incomplete.Anonymous said... This blog is illegal, the contents are so libellous a legal team must be having a field day.Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:14:00 AM PSTSO WHAT? THE MCCANNS CAN SUE AND TO BE SUCCESFULL AT THAT THEY MUSTPROVE WHAT IS WRITTEN IS UNTRUE> I WOULD GLADLY ACQUIRE A PENALTY TO SEE THEM PROVE IT BECAUSE IT SEEMS THE ONLY WAY WE WILL EVER KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE PJ KNOW>
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:53:00 AM PST
2345 said...
muldoon,Rest assured, PJ and their lawyers are always fully informed and act accordingly. 13.05 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:02:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
How do you see this ending 2345? I mean how do you see the pj acting next?
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:07:00 AM PST
felicity said...
Hi MuldoonI do think your comment comparing Jane Tanner to Myra Hindley was unfortunate and potentially libellous. Please be more careful what you write. I do understand you are upset but we have to make sure comments are fair and reasonable. I have deleted your post but copy it here minus that bit so that you can re-post it. This is why the investigation has to be stopped being impeded and whatever the PJ has should be put up for all to see. If they do have the samples from within the partment, we should be hearing this for definate and not via leaks...Im 99.9% sur e the McCanns accidentally killed Madeleine either by negligence or over zealous discipline.I just ccant handle that .1% chance there is another scenario involving tribes of high up paedos.Another reason I doubt the MCCanns though is that there are no witnesses to it other than Tanner.Viv x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:14:00 AM PST
felicity said...
Hiya 2345I do think you make a great point about the evidence yielded from the deployment of Eddie and Keela. They were deployed for a reason - the police believed Kate and Gerry McCann killed Madeleine. The dogs proved that view, based upon the evidence they had so far collected was correct. As we know it caused the investigation to proceed in an entirely different direction, away from the original suspect, Murat, and focussing instead on the prime suspects, now Kate and Gerry McCann. It is right to highlight just how important their work is both here and in other cases where these dogs have been successful in also bringing child killers to justice. But for the dogs finding the forensic evidence the PJ case would have been weak. The case was strengthened to the extent that in combination with the forensic evidence obtained the McCanns were made arguidos. It was a major breakthrough. So often in cases of this nature the police know for a fact the parents are responsible due to the lies they have told (e.g. shutters jemmied etc) but need much more evidence to actually convict beyond reasonable doubt. I believe the PJ do now have such a case.I think there is cause for concern at what appears to be deliberate delay by UK authorities but nevertheless believe this case will now proceed. Strength of public opinion will have enable the government to realise we are not just going to forget about this case and tolerate any sort of whitewash. As in Jersey, the truth is being told with the help of those two wonderful animals. Vivx
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:29:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Viv & Everyone,Found on 3 A's - link posted by Mercedes2 :Monday, December 3, 2007Russell O’Brien comes under ‘investigation’Sunday Express Newspaper ScanA close friend of Kate and Gerry McCann who was holidaying with them when Madeleine vanished will be questioned by Portuguese police this week over a “mystery” phone call. Doctor Russell O’Brein,36, has come under investigation as a team of telephone surveillance officers highlighted a mobile phone call made to the missing four-year-old’s father just over a month after she disappeared.Portuguese police now believe that a phone call between Gerry McCann, 39, and Dr O’Brien is the missing link in Madeleine’s disappearance and could help find her body.Investigators are focusing on the exact whereabouts of Dr O’Brien when the phone call was made on June 10.Last night is was unclear exactly what was said during the debated call but it is understood that key words aroused police suspicions.The development is a massive blow to the McCann’s who had been led to believe they would be cleared of any involvement in the daughter’s alleged death by Christmas.A team of senior detectives are to fly to Britain after gaining permission to re-interview certain members of the group, including Dr O’Brien. He has taken advice from a lawyer recommended by the McCann legal team.The Sunday Express has learned Mr McCann told police the call, 38 days after Madeleine vanished was made within 4km of the Mark Warner resort in Praia da Luz where the party was staying but technicians working on the mobile phone network have dismissed his claim after examining records.It has also emerged that each member of the “Tapas Nine” was placed under surveillance after British communications experts arrived in the Algarve at the end of May.A close friend of the group told how just weeks after Madeleine went missing, the parents and their friends had grown concerned they were being closely watched by Portuguese police.He said “Although they never officially thought they were under surveillance – Kate and Gerry were always cautious when making calls because they knew it was possible that somebody could be listening in.“They were concerned that their phones could have been tapped or that the electronic traffic between them and their friends was being recorded.”Kate and Gerry, both 39, were named as “arguidos”, formal suspects, in their daughter’s disappearance on September 9.They have not been charged but police let it be known they had evidence to indicate that Madeleine accidentally died in apartment 5A and her body was hidden for weeks before being moved in the boot of a Renault Scenic the family hired 25 days later.British experts attempted to trace the movements of Madeleine’s abductor by following a trail left by mobile telephone signals. The technique helped convict Ian Huntley for the murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman in Soham, Cambridgeshire, in 2002.Trails are created by silent transmissions sent by mobile phones even when not in use. These create a timed computer log of the handsets movement’s which can narrow down its location to an area as small as a few square yards.Police analysts examining records of mobile phones belonging to the McCanns and their holiday group returned their findings to Portuguese prosecutors last week.Detectives used the detailed information to “test” statements by guests and staff at the Ocean Club complex.Last week Portuguese officers arrived in Britain to talk to Leicestershire Police and British forensic experts about the implications of DNA results from tests at the Forensic Science Service’s base in Birmingham.Friends of the McCanns thought the summit indicated Madeleine’s parents would be cleared as suspects after DNA evidence against them appeared to collapse, but last night it was clear there are still doubts about contradictions in the statements the group gave to police. Both Gerry and Kate McCann deny any involvement with Madeleine’s disappearance but the police still maintain the case against them does not rely on DNA results.Dr O’Brien could also be named as an arguido. Last night a friend said “If he faces a situation where the arguido status becomes an issue, it allows certain rights, like the right to have a lawyer present and the right to remain silent.”Posted by Charlotte at 10:27 AM 2 comments: Anonymous said... 2345 1.40 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:39:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
NOne of the friends or the McCanns have any bussiness refusing to answer, even if the aguido status allows them to do so...The very fact any of them would refuse to answer questons about the 3rd may shows they are dodgy.They must know the case is being impeded and if they were innocent, they would assist in all ways possible to prove this and then the investigation would have to follow other scenarios. All the time they stall this their beloved daughter is with paedos, if they are to be believed.So why would they want to hamper the pj?
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:54:00 AM PST
felicity said...
Hiya MuldoonMadeleine's disappearance has nothing to do with paedophiles and there is only one reason her parents do not want to co-operate with police.2345What a fascinating article _ thanks! I did not realise they could even track people's movements just by having a mobile phone in their possession. How asbolutely terrible for Gerry McCanns and Russell O'Brien and simply great for Justice for Maddie.On the usual issue of threats to sue, I see Russell O'Brien was doing so back in August - as ever failure to issue a writ confirms guilt!Madeleine: stop the smears and concentrate on investigation, says friendLast updated at 10:03am on 22nd August 2007Comments (1) Russell O'Brien has been forced to deny his involvement in Madeleine's disappearance A smear campaign waged against Kate and Gerry McCann is diverting police from the real problem of finding Madeleine, a close friend said today. David Payne, who was dining with the McCanns the night the three-year-old vanished, spoke publicly about the investigation today for the first time. Mr Payne is upset that the McCanns and other close friends on holiday in Praia da Luz in Portugal when Maddy went missing have been dragged into the inquiry. Today a senior police officer briefed Portuguese media that the McCanns should not go home because the investigation is at a possibly decisive phase. The implication - that the McCanns or their friends have some involvement in her disappearance 111 days ago - is being seen as yet another smear. Police have briefed reporters that Madeleine died in the apartment - was either murdered or killed accidentally - and have increasingly come to discount the theory that she was abducted. One of the other friends on the trip, Russell O'Brien, a consultant from Exeter, has been forced to deny his involvement in Madeleine's disappearance after intense media speculation. He is now considering suing certain publications. Scroll down for more ...Madeleine has been missing since May 3Read more...Madeleine police tell her parents: 'Don't leave Portugal' Madeleine: burglar was on loose at Portuguese holiday complex Mr Payne, a senior research fellow in cardiovascular sciences at Leicester University, was on holiday with his doctor wife Fiona, 34, their two children and Mrs Payne's mother, Dianne Webster, when Madeleine went missing. He said today: "We don't want to be caught up in a media showdown. We just want Madeleine to come back and it is just saddening that other events are taking over. It is awful to see what is being written. All these smears and rumours are overshadowing the important thing which is to get Madeleine back." Mr Payne said the friends remained in "regular contact". His intervention came as the police inquiry appeared again to have stalled. The only official suspect, British-born Robert Murat, is expected to be formally cleared. Sources have suggested Portuguese detectives have fallen out with British police over the delivery of potentially vital forensic results from the Birmingham lab. According to reports, while one test for blood found in the McCanns' apartment is definitely from a man, another sample has still to be formally identified. If that blood sample turned out to come from Madeleine that would add weight to the theory that she died in the room.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:00:00 AM PST
2345 said...
muldoon,Are you not allowed to write a post today which does not include the word 'paedos'. I guess not.2.00 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:00:00 AM PST
felicity said...
Hiya 2345Wolf in sheep's clothing?Viv x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:07:00 AM PST
dylan said...
Hi all.So little time these days....Just a couple of things I have time to say -Louise: At least you have been brave enough to put a name to your posts. As for my dream - yes it WAS sick. It disturbed me so much that the dream is the whole reason I have followed this case.Confiding in people over something that has upset me very much, however, does not make ME a sick person.What actually is sick is that two, supposedly responsible parents, buggered off for a cosy drink with their mates and left their little ones alone. I have never stopped being sickened by that. It's a bloody disgrace and my anger over it does not diminish as time goes on. I wish it had never happened. It has taken over my life for the past 10 months. I'm not saying I don't feel sorry for the Mcs, I do, but that doesn't change what they did.I have a right to express my opinion, a right to share my thoughts and dreams (as horrible as they are) and a right to seek help from others that can help me such as viv & muldoon. You do NOT have the right to judge me as a person. You don't know me, you have no idea what I am like as a mother. If you did, you would not be calling me "sick". If I am, it's just because of people like you that I'm sick of having a go at people like me, who would die for my children, readily.I have put my own life at risk now, twice, trying to save women who were being kicked and battered. The first time, I went out at 3am in the morning, in my pyjamas, and went running down the road screaming at a man who was kicking his girlfriend in the street. He ran away and I stayed with her and called an ambulance as she had an asthma attack right there in the street. No thought for my own safety. So - are you the type that would just step over a fellow human being in danger? I think so. I am here because I care about a child that I have never met, never knew & want to find some justice for her. You make my blood boil, Louise.Viv, 2345, Muldoon et al, I don't believe that Maddie was killed by either parent. I still think it was an accident and that they had something to hide. Either, that the children had been sedated, or that Maddie died as a result of an accident before they got home on the 2/5 from being called back. I think that in the case of the latter, they would have felt that they would be in less trouble if an abduction was staged than if she had died from being neglected. The motives? Not wanting to lose their twins firstly, and not wanting to lose their jobs secondly.Everything should start moving soon & I for one am glad that it is.Viv, have tried to email you twice now to give muldoon my address. Have you received anything??! If not I will switch from my uni to my hotmail account!Re bi-polar disorder, I've mentioned here before, I suffer from PDD and have a long history of post natal depression which I never, truly recovered from. Trauma works in strange ways and often there is a time lag before the onset and leaves you feeling shocked when it hits you. I suffered from P-natal depression after a miscarriage also. I am either, very "up" or very "down". I rarely have periods when I feel just "OK". I know how it works and how it goes in cycles and, whilst I have never had feelings of violence towards my children, it often manifests itself as a feeling of utter desperation, sadness and over-protectiveness towards my children & it suffocates me. These days, I dread when I am due for my monthly. I hope it subsides when I reach my menopause!Sorry for long post, dyl x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:08:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Viv,Yes, and I remembered phone tracking was Huntley's downfall; it blew his alibi clean out of the water.I'd read reports of British phone technology specialists working for PJ but found the article by chance on 3 A's, thanks to Mercedes2.The anti police/forensic brigade do not understand the significance or depth of PJ's investigative procedures on Madeleine's behalf. As always, I've been here too long and must go shopping. Before departing, it's taken me until today to realize that exactly the same tactics are applied in Forums as they are 'at the top'. Misconstrue and divide - efforts to create division between PJ & Leicester Police. PJ have not been subjected to any British incompetence; the games played by Government are designed to not only cause delay, but division, IMO. Brown & the trolls are tarred with the same brush.United we stand for Madeleine, truth and democracy 2.15 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:15:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
I just think that whatever happened to Madeleine has to not be for nothing...Inever knew the extent of paedophilia, always thought it lone predators. It would be good for a law or something to be passed in Madeleines name, so that she did not die in vain.Yes we know the parents are to blame but we also got to know just what dangers kids face now, maybe that was the reason for all this? I donot like to think nothing good can come of this, I like to think madeleienes suffering wont have been in vain.Perhhasps her existance was in a round about way to highlight what we now know.As for the parents we have to hope the friends slip up. or have a attack of conscience...doubt that very much.So its all down to forensics....but are they being tampered with? They are taking long enough. How come you can get a dna test done in 48 hours on line?
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:20:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
Welll said Dylan...The fact is the selfish self serving gits left the kids every night of the holiday..madeleine should not have been left wedged between the twins...If I done that I would ahve been arrested the minute I stepped on British soil.Whatever happens we know, the McCanns abandoned the kids to goon the lash and they have shown an utter disregard for their own daughters plight...Theyhave only concerned themselves with covering their useles arSes.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:24:00 AM PST
2345 said...
dyl,I must dash, but the forensics, specifical "Sousa himself told of this very fine mist of spray .... "is not conducive to a blood spurt from a fall. Hence the words " is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ...". This area is heavily protected by protruding jaw if a child fell forward, backwards or sideways. The words strongly suggest a severe upper cut impact, i.e. a fist. A really profound impact to the larynx would break the spine lying behind it. " .... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull".This report strongly suggests Madeleine was not at ground level when the fatal injuries occurred.It could have occurred, for example, if she was in Kate's arms, head at Kate's level and was struck by accident in a heated parental fall out. This rationalization was the reason I was permanently silenced by DE 'overseers'. Make of it what you will, as they say !! 2.25 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:26:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
I always wonder if the McCanns have ever seen the spudgun video...best I have seen. If they have why arent they taking legal action instead of people threatening on here legal actions against people posting their opinions?. They wont ever sue anyone.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:28:00 AM PST
2345 said...
dylan,Excuse my impertitence, but I strongly recommend you do not give muldoon your address. The person is not at all what they appear to be or wish you to believe them to be. My discomforture has been proven right today. I hope you don't mind me pointing this out.2.35 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:29:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
I have never read such in depth stuff on the forensics..maybe Madeleine was starngled or does it have to be a punch? The blood splatter could maybe have come from attempts to revive her? If the pj have all this why the hell are this pair not banged up awaiting trial??What is Clarence going to say when it all comes out?Dylan I gave felicity my email address for you.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:31:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Viv,Yes and the most heavily disguised to date. I've reached the point where I can almost smell them. 2.35 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:32:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:34:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:36:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
I have stated I am 99.9% certain they have some involvement although whta I do not know...All I know is its improbable a paedophile is responsible or someone else would ahve seen them and there is a massive reward..some greedy no markwould have turned her in by now. I know That teh mCcanns do not seem as upset as hey should and have utright lied, I know there are forensics that we are still awaining months later.. I know the McCanns hired top extradition lawyers and have refused to answer pjs questions..I know that allof the party tell a different story and this is disputed by oehrpeople at the tapas..I know of Mrs Fenns statements and that Richard Branson has some contact with one of the people who say they seen Madeleine and he also foots their bills.I am trying to satisfy myself that the hatred I am feeling is justified..Its just gutn instinct and what i have read...youlot sem to read moree than I have.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:42:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
And if Dylan does not want to swop msn addys that is fine..i did not ask for hers she asked for mine and as we both seem to think the same taht was cool withme...You want to check your facts 2345...Prolific anti mCCanner on sky and DE...aka as mammy and Rosie Apples..different names always the same beleifs!!!Find out before you damn me please.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:45:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
Oh and kevsotherhalf..there at the same time as slim, davy crocket and co...sky news forums that is!!
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:47:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
Just found this..From Huelva Information:28.02.2008Mari Luz’s father hopes that the little girl found in a European country “is my daughter”The little girl, whom nobody has claimed, has the same age and complexion as Mari Luz.The family yesterday received an email that informed them that a child was in a Commissariat in a foreign country and that in three days nobody had claimed her and that she could be our daughter.Mari Luz’s father immediately passed the information on to the National Police, “who have confirmed to me that this little girl exists, everything is being compared and that they are investigating to see whether or not she is our daughter”.According to Juan José Cortés’s statements to Huelva Información, this is a little girl aged between four and five years old who, due to her physical characteristics “could perfectly be Mari Luz”. The Police have also informed the family that “the little girl barely speaks, is very frightened, cries all the time and the only thing she says is Mamá! Mamá!. He said “Police have confirmed that the little girl has been at the Commissariat for three days and that, in spite of having published her photo in all the media, nobody has claimed her”.Cortés explained that “as you can imagine, this news has had a great impact on us, although we know we should be cautious in order not to suffer further disappointment”.Only pity is this is what I one day wanted to read about Madeleine.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:53:00 AM PST
hope4truth said...
Good Afternoon allDylan sorry to hear about your Post Natal Depresion it is horrid I had it with my second child but luckly it did not last long but at the time I thought it would never end...Have you tried taking Evening Primrose Oil it is fantastic for PMT you have to give it a month (or it can work sooner) but a friend who suffered reallky badly with it says it has really helped (she said she realised that she had a problem when she went Banannas at Asda because there were not small troleys so she wrote to them and on re reading the letter a week or so later was so embaresed as she had a real rant) LOL I thought it was really funny but she is sure they must think she is mad...xxx
Saturday, March 1, 2008 7:26:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Muldoonfollow up report.29.02.2008Cortés was in Rome (where he spent the night) at the moment when the Spanish police gave him the news that the little girl from Naples is not Mari Luz.He was not satisfied with that information. “I want to check it out myself because I don’t want to live with the doubt” he said. He is planning to visit the little girl in Naples today. He also explained that “after 45 days of being malnourished and in God knows what conditions, your face and your whole physical appearance can change, nobody will be able to recognise my daughter as I can.” He confirmed with the desperation of a father who has spent one month and 15 days without knowing ant more about his daughter. Cortés will also appear on a RAI programme about missing people during his stay in Italy.The feelings in Huelva were not very different: “Too many coincidences for her not be my grand daughter”. These were the words of illusion uttered at breakfast by Mari Luz’s paternal grandfather, without knowing that afterwards everything would end up being a false alarm which, for a few hours at least, made the family’s hearts race. Hope turned into disillusion after the denial.The story began last Friday, 22nd February, when the Italian media heard of a story that gripped the whole country: in the afternoon of 20th February a nurse from the Naples hospital found a little girl who had been abandoned near the health centre. She is an energetic, healthy, hungry little girl whom the nurse found hidden behind a bush in a nearby garden, according to media reports. During this time nobody has claimed the girl, who does not speak Italian and a judge has ordered that she should be looked after temporarily by the doctors of the health centre.Spanish police sent all the information (about Mari Luz) to the Italian police and finally, it was proved that, in spite both girls being of the gypsy ethnic group, they are different girls. One of Romanian nationality, is three years old. The other, Mari Luz, is five.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 8:22:00 AM PST
RATONTHEBEAM said...
Anonymous said... This blog is illegal, the contents are so libellous a legal team must be having a field day.Actually, that is not correct.The McCanns already have the status of suspectsin a criminal investigation, so we are allowed to comment on that, as it will not damage their reputation any more than it alsready has been (by the facts). So that is not libel. Supertroll, on the other hand, has accused Doc of not being a real doctor (amongst other things too nasty to repeat here) which possibly could damage his reputation,so that is libel.It's like a convicted murderer being accused of drink driving (not libellous because it doesn't make his reputation any worse) but if it were Lewis Hamilton being accused of drink-driving, then it would be libel (smears his professional reputation).Having said all that, libel cases are notoriously difficult to bring to fruition in the UK, and Clarence is just making himself look like a complete tosser by threatening to sue all and sundry (not libellous), we aren't in Hollywood here and the UK is not litigation-happy like the US.To get back to today's main point, I always wondered what evidence the PJ have that made them concentrate more closely on Kate than on Gerry. Wizard's theory makes a lot of sense.rat 16:26 GMTPLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
Saturday, March 1, 2008 8:27:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
But it still must be somebodys child....unless theparents have abandonned her. Very sad.Also found this which does seem to show the that for whatever reason the McCanns have had favourable treatment..unless its the holiday and birthday aspect of Madeleines story that evoked such strong reactions.This is on the joana morais site on her Madeleine blog.Poor little Shannon Matthews. Too poor for us to care that she is lost?From The Timesby Andrew NorfolkHer family may seem feckless. Neighbours can’t afford to run a PR campaign. How the public spotlight faded on missing girlSarah Payne, smiling in her school uniform; Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, in their Manchester United shirts; Madeleine McCann, staring inquisitively with her distinctive bleeding iris . . .The names and faces of these girls who have disappeared are etched into the public’s collective memory.Camera crews camped out in their home towns for weeks or months. Donations totalled thousands — even millions — of pounds. Members of the public, many of them strangers, came in their hundreds to offer help and prayers for their safe return.Yet the trauma and mystery surrounding the disappearance of one nine-year-old girl almost two weeks ago appeared to drift from public consciousness within days.When Shannon Matthews vanished after leaving her primary school, there was an initial flurry of attention on the impoverished council estate in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, where she lived. West Yorkshire Police knew that they were dealing with a potential case of child abduction and threw unprecedented resources into their search. As the community pulled together, the satellite vans of the national media arrived on the hillside streets of Dewsbury Moor and for a few days Shannon’s name featured prominently on newspaper billboards.But no longer. The search for a vanished innocent continues but Britain seems to have lost interest. This week the hunt appeared to have been classed as less newsworthy than the most minor developments in the search for Madeleine McCann, who disappeared nine months ago.Is Shannon — a shy, timid, gentle girl — somehow deemed less worthy of our concern?Dewsbury Moor is no Home Counties idyll, nor is it a Portuguese holiday resort. It is “up North”, it is a bleak mix of pebbledash council blocks and neglected wasteland, and it is populated by some people capable of confirming the worst stereotype and prejudice of the white underclass.Karen Matthews, Shannon’s mother, has seven childen by five fathers. Shannon was thought locally to have a twin brother who lived with their natural father. It emerged this week that the two children were born a year apart. Their mother called them twins merely because they had the same father. When a female relative was giving interviews about the missing child on the day after Shannon disappeared, her husband loudly reminded her to charge “a fiver for a feel” \, then roared with laughter at his own wit.Emotion-charged press conferences featuring distraught relatives are a feature of searches for missing children. No such media events have been possible in this case, because — despite considerable effort — it would appear that officers have been unable to find anyone who is up to the task. Last night Shannon’s best friend, nine-year-old Megan Aldridge, made a tearful televised plea for her return. Megan, who walked home with her friend on the afternoon she disappeared, appealed to her to “please come home”. She said: “I’m really, really sad, and if you know where she is just call and tell us where she is. We have all been really upset since she went away.”The community has done its best to support the family and to raise awareness of the missing girl, but locals have neither the resources nor the know-how to operate the sort of slick publicity machine that has kept other missing-child cases in the spotlight.Contrast the media-savvy McCann campaign with the brave efforts of Petra Jamieson, 30, a friend of Shannon’s mother, who managed to persuade her local branch of Asda to donate 24 white T-shirts on which the girl’s photograph had been printed.After Holly and Jessica had been missing for a few days, two tabloid newspapers had offered rewards for information that totalled more than £1 million. In Dewsbury, locals scraped together the funds to print extra copies of the small posters distributed by the police. They took them in bundles to neighbouring towns and handed them out to passers-by.However, last night The Sun newspaper offered a £20,000 reward for help in finding Shannon and offered to print posters to publicise the search.A spokesman for the McCann family said they hoped that the search for Shannon would gain greater prominence. “Shannon is a vulnerable missing child and we’d hope that the media would focus on her situation and cover her plight in as wide and balanced a way as possible,” he said.Most of the houses on Shannon’s road carry the poster in their front windows but one’s attention is all too easily distracted by the rubbish-strewn gardens, the smashed windows, the discarded broken toys.Some neighbours are distraught but others seem only too ready to treat the drama of a missing child as a sort of exciting game that has relieved the monotony of life on the poverty line.Since a week last Wednesday, a major police operation has been in progress, now involving more than 250 uniformed officers and 60 detectives. But as the police used sniffer dogs to search one house on Thursday, along the road hooded teenagers were swearing loudly to impress a gaggle of under-age mothers, one of whom filled the gap between drags on her cigarette by aiming a hefty kick at the crying toddler in her care.Mrs Jamieson said: “The police have been absolutely brilliant, but it’s beginning to look as though no one else cares. It shouldn’t matter whether a kid who goes missing is from a rich family or a poor family.”A deprived background, a dysfunctional family and a down-on-its-luck Yorkshire mill town: none of this is Shannon Matthews’
Saturday, March 1, 2008 8:32:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Rat.comment yes acuse them of killing their daughter NO.You should take a look at your own list of deadly sins
Saturday, March 1, 2008 8:34:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Go on then, big brave Anonymous, show me where I hae EVER accused the McCanns of killing their daughter.Oh, that's right, you can't.....rat 16:42 GMT PLEASE DONOT FEED THE TROLLS, ANONYMOUS OR OTHERWISE!
Saturday, March 1, 2008 8:43:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
I have accused them..I dont think anything would happen even if you did.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 8:45:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Is muldoon a troll?
Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:08:00 AM PST
2345 said...
muldoon,I do not trust you but I did not 'damn' you: you did it yourself. Same predictable anger ..... 5.15 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:14:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Viv,It seems Mr Cortez is still being paid to do as he's told.Strange that he knows his daughter has been malnourished for the past 45 days and is barely recognisable ?? !!! 5.15 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:25:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Muldoon,The only 'bad' press comes from those averse to the truth. In this case, they're not worth a second thought. For my part, I have only read posts of congratulations to Viv for her hard work and commitment. 5.30 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:30:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Temper, Temper Rat.What would Callum say
Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:31:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Muldoonleave 2345 alone you know she gets upset easy.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:32:00 AM PST
2345 said...
anonymous,I've got a great sense of humour and am still laughing at your 'so called' Times article. No link and definitely not their work.Millions of pounds raised and hundreds of public ghouls flocking to the town .... Clarence is really, really desperate. In genuine cases of missing children, i.e. Sarah Payne, Sohom schoolgirls the parents not only respected the experize of the Police and their unique resources, they worked in line with their advice for safety's sake.In Madeleine's case, after the forensic had been scrubbed away (or so they thought), they hand picked Metado 3, fraud specialists with connections to illegal drug trade.The public did not insult the parents of Sarah Payne or the Sohom girls with money; the only people equipped to finding them were the Police who are paid to do so by taxpayers. Neither did hundreds of members of the public line up gawping at events.How much lower are you going to sink ? You've virtually reached rock bottom in your latest failed attempt. 6.00 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:59:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Viv,Strange, too, that Mr Cortez's priorities are the same as the McCanns. Spends ages talking to journalists as opposed to rescuing his malnourished, barely recognizable daughter Police tell him can hardly talk. His actions, as opposed to his words, show he can't be that concerned. The first act of the Mari Luz drama was written and presented in the same style as Maddie's drama. The latest artice on the father is identical. All talk, no do. 6.15 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 10:12:00 AM PST
Atardi said...
2345,I think I read that article too on Timesonline.Wil see if I can find the link.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 10:46:00 AM PST
Atardi said...
2345,Here is the link.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3463481.ece
Saturday, March 1, 2008 10:50:00 AM PST
dylan said...
Hiya hope. Lol re Asda!)) If had a pound for every time i'd done somethin similar, I'd but putting my feet up somewhere sunny and hot right now!2345, Hi. I see your point about the blood. I can't argue with that as I don't know enough about forensic evidence but i do believe you do. Just all seems so - i don't know, unbelievable. Maybe Gerry was very, very angry at having been shamed about being called back. Poor little maddie :( What is suspicious about muldoon? I haven't had time to read everything & now I'm really confused. What did she say?Muldoon, really sorry, i won't judge you at all but i'd like to hear 2345's reasons. I'm so naiive at times & i get scared about what goes on on these sites sometimes. I've never been on chat rooms or beebo and don't use my facebook much either. I now know what i am facing as i had some really nasty abuse recently regarding my children. I can take pretty much anything but that was the last straw for me.Take care allDo not feed the trollsDyl x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 10:56:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Dylan,The nasty abuse was not regarding your children,it was regarding the children of the troll who abused you.Hopefully that troll will never come back now.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:02:00 AM PST
muldoon said...
I too would like to see 2345 offer a better explanation than this lame excuse....2345 said... muldoon,I do not trust you but I did not 'damn' you: you did it yourself. Same predictable anger ..... 5.15 p.m.Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:14:00 AM PSTGod help us if thats all it takes is 2345 decides she doesnt trust me and some ambigous remark about temper......2345. come on you can do better than that...I hope...paste the remark you found such a give away!!! Or anyone else can for you.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:08:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Muldoon, you are a newbie here its not a good idea to antagonise regular posters.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:11:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
2345 said... dylan,Excuse my impertitence, but I strongly recommend you do not give muldoon your address. The person is not at all what they appear to be or wish you to believe them to be. My discomforture has been proven right today. I hope you don't mind me pointing this out.2.35 p.m.Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:29:00 AM PST 2345 said... Viv,Yes and the most heavily disguised to date. I've reached the point where I can almost smell them. 2.35 p.m.Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:32:00 AM PST
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:14:00 AM PST
dylan said...
Hi again hope, I forgot to say thanks for your advice. OEP is supposed to be great, together with B vitamins and a good diet. I have a book and my diet fits ok. My mum bought me some boots women's monthly cycle tablets. They are great but absolutely huge! I'm now too scared about choking on them to take them but there is a liquid form comming out soon. Can't wait!P - natal depression is such a horrible thing and i'm glad for you, you didn't have it for long. You have this lovely, tiny baby that adores you and all you feel like is absolute c**p! Tiredness doesn't help either. I fed mine myself and didn't, therefore get a break from the night feeds. I tried expressing milk but my babies all hated the bottle! All seems like such a long time ago now! Looking forward to being a granny next.anon - i am sure it was directed at me as it followed on, almost word for word, from what i had just said. I won't go back and read it agian as it will only upset me! Thanks for trying to help anyway.I will say goodnight to all for today. Going out for a meal tonight. Will be so lovely to be soilt for once!Take care and be nice to each other.And - to all you mums: HAPPY MOTHERS' DAY for tomorrow. @-,-'- X(that's supposed to be a rose for you all but i can't quite remember how to do it - doh!)
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:19:00 AM PST
Di said...
DylI agree with 2345 I have been reading but not posting for a few days, Troll comes to mind!! Beware
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:20:00 AM PST
dylan said...
Doh - typo "soilt" for once - meant to say spoilt! I don't think I have been "soilt" since i was last in nappies ROFLMAO! x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:26:00 AM PST
hope4truth said...
DylHave a lovely meal speak tomorrow happy mothers day and thanks for the rose x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:31:00 AM PST
dylan said...
Hello Di,Thank you for your concern. I am going to be very cautious indeed. I have always trusted 2345. She's a very experienced poster & i'll watch my back.Cheers again x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:32:00 AM PST
2345 said...
anonymous,People are at liberty to comment on information released by the Police via BBC news. FSS information broadcast on 7 September showed Madeleine died in the parents' apartment.The public are, therefore, at liberty to draw logical conclusions on the basis of substantiated fact. One or other parent was responsible for : "Report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx .. some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates broken neck or fractured skull". The information was not publicly released until after it had been presented to the McCanns, the day they were named 'arguido's'. After which they fled the findings and the Police ....Apologies to those who've already seen the above; the need to repeat it continues. As in the Jersey case, a few would prefer the above damning Report to be swept under the carpet.Cowardly anonymous, this is not the place for you; you have issues facing unpalatable substantiated facts. 7.40 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:37:00 AM PST
Di said...
DylAnd that's before a drink,haha enjoy yourself tonight.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:39:00 AM PST
2345 said...
anonymous,Discussions in this Forum are based on written, filmed or photographic evidence. Psychiatric reports are based on watching the McCanns behaviour etc. etc. They chose the limelight; they can throw but they cannot catch.It's their problem and does not infringe on our rights. 8.43 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:42:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
People here are getting all the news stories which are unsubtianted and running wild.It will be no excuse in the long run.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:46:00 AM PST
2345 said...
muldoon,I'm not answerable to you or your backstop hiding behind anonymous.I do not trust you - my right, my choice. 7.55 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:52:00 AM PST
2345 said...
anonymouse,The purpose of a Forum is public discussion, not brainwashing !!7.55 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:53:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
2345I do not trust you - my right, my choice.Tomorrow 8.05
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:54:00 AM PST
2345 said...
anonymous,Many names - one foul tongue. 7.55 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:54:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
That nasty piece of work is Assasin.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:55:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Trolls,Unlike the damning Jersey Report, PJ's dossier of evidence will not be swept under the carpet.Unlike the ONE good British carer in the Jersey case, forum commentators will not silenced.8.00 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:58:00 AM PST
supertroll said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:58:00 AM PST
Anonymous said...
Viv be careful. Assasin and Rosiepops were planning this last night. They want to make your blog so vile that it will get taken off the net. That is their purpose.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 11:58:00 AM PST
2345 said...
Dyl,It's called 'grooming' - winning confidence under false guise for self serving aims and objectives.20.10 p.m.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 12:04:00 PM PST
lizzy said...
2345I think that these trolls,pyscopops and Asassin have clear problems and are quite unbalanced, my teenagers are more mature than them, they cannot bear to be ignored and relish causing trouble,I believe the best way to deal with these people is to ignore them,as they win if people reply, as they are succeeding in stifling decent discussion, as people seek to justify themselves to them. They deserve no attention at all and if in the end they are totally ignored they will go away...Lizzy
Saturday, March 1, 2008 12:10:00 PM PST
Di said...
2345Let them shut us down we will open up elsewhere,obviously they have nothing to talk about on their site as they seem to be spending so much time on here.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 12:12:00 PM PST
Di said...
2345Let them shut us down we will open up elsewhere,obviously they have nothing to talk about on their site as they seem to be spending so much time on here.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 12:12:00 PM PST
aware_of_their_tactics said...
Sorry I posted anonymous before it is confusing like that. I am an observant of both sites and yesterday they were planning this. Assasin has other masters to serve. She is playing everyone. At this moment she is helping them but she'll turn on them eventually.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 12:13:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
Hello TrollLovely to see you thanks for your poll looks like I am in the lead but I wont let it go to my head 2 days left and all that and I am against such fantastic competition but you never know It could be me (ohhh how exciting)...You seem to be getting a few posts on your site now shame everyone is to shy to sign in it gets rather confusing with so many Annons I am not sure who I am replying to???Any how take care xxx
Saturday, March 1, 2008 12:23:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Who the f*** is Callum?rat 20:32 GMTplease do not feed the trolls!
Saturday, March 1, 2008 12:32:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
ROTB,Calum MacRae18-year-old internet expert runs Find Madeleine website which has attracted more than 400,000 unique users and helped to raise more than £1 million in donations for campaign.I think this person was also on the DE?I wish Docmac was here to clear some things up.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 12:48:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
Hope4truth,How was your day? Has your friend choose a nice wedding dress?
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:00:00 PM PST
supertroll said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:01:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
Dylan,You are celebrating Mother's Day tomorrow in England?
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:02:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya Dillie - I am sorry to read about your PND. For your own benefit I have decided not to pass your email on to Muldoon.I know you will trust my own and 2345's judgment on this and we do have good reason.Take CareViv x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:23:00 PM PST
felicity said...
Hiya AtardiYes Calum regularly posted on the De being a little spoilt brat called Mark55 didnt he! I wonder where he has gone to play now!Viv x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:30:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
AtardiI cried (I am hopeless) she tried on 6 but two were beautiful I prefered one she liked another she is not getting married until next year so she has lots of time but it was very exciting. My girls came with me and were deciding which dresses they wanted they have years yet LOLIt is Mothers day here tomorrow girls excited so at 7am tomorrow no doubt I will get Breakfast in bed last year it was Coco Pops and cold soggy toast but I ate the lot (even though I hate milk) and said it was a lovely surprise my oldest now knows how to scramble eggs but not sure I can eat that at 7am but will try LOLHow is your cold? Did your daughter have a match today? xxx
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:32:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Happy Mother's Day tomorrow to all Mum's.Muldoon, I have read your posts and agree with 2345 and Viv.It is a shame the McC Team are trying to close everything down that does not make them smell of roses, do they not realise it is an impossible task. Unfortunately for them the majority of the world are not gullible. Why do they not just concentrate on finding their missing daughter?!Zodiac
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:35:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
2345,I read a lot of stuff about Madeleine.That's why I read the Times On Line article too. It was not an attack to you to publish the link.Your posts here are very good.Because most people don't understand the forensic evidence you must keep posting about this subject.I read an article this week and wanted to post it to you, but thought it was too long.The last question is what everyone must read. It has been explained many times on Viv's blog.Justice for Madeleine.Don't feed the trolls.Dog Magazine dot net - free online dog magazineby K9 Magazine, the lifestyle magazine for dog loversI Find Dead People - A Day in the Life of a Human Remains (Cadaver) Detection DogPosted By Sean O'Meara Date: 28/02 Posted Under: Dog ArticlesAs many will have heard in the news recently, the police are deploying the skills of specially trained dogs in the hunt for human remains at a former children’s home on the island of Jersey. Dogs have also been used in the recent high profile searches for missing girl Madeleine McCann and West Yorkshire schoolgirl Shannon Matthews. If you’ve ever wondered how these specialist sniffer dogs are trained or how they go about their work, K9 Magazine spoke with PC David King about what goes into training and working a cadaver dog.This Article Appeared In K9 Magazine Issue 5 - View A PDF Version Of This Article >>It is not until you actually own a dog is it that you realise just how strong the canine sense of smell is. I always knew that dogs could find us before we could find them, but as a dry nosed amateur, I did not fully appreciate the extent of their ability until I learned about human remains detection dogs.For centuries, dogs have assisted members of the Police force with such diverse jobs as detecting explosives, crowd control, detecting narcotics and physically apprehending criminals. But up until relatively recently human remains detection, or cadaver dogs and their human colleagues have been an under represented minority in the field of canine related police work.The common misconception has been for a while that cadaver dogs do not assist in crime prevention, they only assist in the collection of evidence. Although this is technically true, the life changing capabilities of these remarkable dogs are unequivocally staggering, as I was about to find out.A chilly, January afternoon in Hutton, Lancashire was the setting and Police Constable David King was my host. Meeting David, a serving officer since 1981 with over seven years experience with Police dogs, four of which specifically with cadaver dogs, was one of those experiences where all of your preconceptions are blown out of the water.It was one of those times where someone’s face could be no further from the image conjured up by the preceding telephone conversations, and to add a dash of surrealism, I was to be interviewing a police officer, something which half tempted me to use phrases like ‘for the benefit of the tape’ and ‘interview terminated at fifteen hundred hours’.I decided not to upon being shown to the room where PC King was waiting for me. You see, David was not the ‘Reg Hollis off the Bill’ type bumbling stereotype his telephone demeanour had suggested, he was in fact a man mountain who’s very presence seemed to command respect from his peers at the station and from anything on four legs within a square mile, add to this the fact that upon shaking his hand I realised that I was about to speak to a very, very strong man. I spoke to PC King about many things canine related, including drugs, toys and death. Here is how it unfolded.K9. How did you arrive at this vocation?DK. I became a police officer in1981, and went on to serve in various parts of the constabulary. I really enjoyed working in uniform, but after about ten years I decided that I wanted to specialise. I wanted to remain in uniform so I became a Police Dog handler.K9. So you carry out traditional Police duties as well?DK. Not anymore. My core task is dog training and instructing the dogs when searching for human remains.K9. Do you consider yourself a Police officer who works with dogs, or a dog handler who works for the Police?DK. (laughs.) You’ll get me into trouble with that one. No, the force ethos is that you are Police officers who work with dogs, but the reality for most dog handlers including myself is that you are definitely dog handlers first, who work for the Police.K9. What is the best breed of dog for this type of work and why?DK. We tend to use gun dog breeds for most work requiring a specialised dog. This includes cadaver dogs, but they are also excellent for detecting explosives and drugs. The reason for that is that Labradors and Spaniels represent a large portion of all dogs that are bred for work, and as such they tend to have better natural abilities.K9. Given the sensitive nature of the work, are there any special qualities you look for when selecting dogs to work with?DK. Ultimately the dogs have to be hard working dogs, that are willing to retrieve. But not special in the respect that we worry what people think about them, that is immaterial to us. It is pretty much the same criteria we require for dogs that search for explosives, we need highly motivated dogs that like to play.K9. Do you train the dogs to be passive or active? (Passive dogs lay down to signal a find, active dogs dig when they have a find)DK. My current dog (Missy, an extremely affable Golden Retriever) is trained as an active dog. Her reward when she has a find is food. If I was to train another human remains dog today the reward I would use would be a toy rather than food, simply because of past experiences I have had.K9. Narcotics dogs are trained with pseudo-narcotics, what do you use to simulate human remains?DK. Well firstly, we actually use real drugs to train with now. With regards to the human remains training we use a cadaverous pig. A dead pig is the closest you will get to a dead humanK9. What is the protocol when a person is missing feared dead, how do things unfold.DK. My main job is training, and I do that during the week. The dogs are worth nothing to me if I can’t train them. So searches usually happen at the weekend. Although it sounds insensitive, it is not a matter of urgency, although the Police usually want everything done yesterdayK9. Obviously it is a distressing experience when the dog has a find how do you praise or reward the dog in this situation ?DK. Although I am concerned about the job that I am doing and what it means to people, and I have feelings myself, I view all searches as training for my dog. You’ve got to be professional. One thing to remember is that the searches are almost always done away from the public eye, to protect the feelings of the people involved. But when Missy does have a find, it is imperative that I remain professional and give her praise in the usual way, which is lots of hand contact and verbal praise when she signals.K9. Do the dogs pick up on any emotion involved?DK. As soon as Missy signals a find, I move her away from the respective areas involved and go on to conduct the investigation with her out of the way. That is the only way you can do it.K9. Your job is one of contrast. You have the pleasure of working with the dogs you have spent a long time training, but you also have to deal with the less than pleasant issue of dead bodies. Does one cancel out the other?DK. No. Although it is very distressing, the majority of the time I am searching for people who have been murdered. There are also people who have gone missing, and quite a lot of times, I am searching for elderly people who have simply got lost on their own and succumbed to cold or fallen down. I always see it as allowing people who are related to the deceased to have closure. If it is murder, it allows us to continue the investigation, if it is a missing person, it finally allows people to grieve and say that that person is gone. That in itself gives me a degree of pleasure. I am able to let people carry on living their lives, whereas beforehand they would not have been able to do so.K9. How do switch off from work when you get home?DK. Again it comes down to experience of being a Police officer. You see a lot of things that upset you, not just death. You have to maintain a degree of distance. You cannot allow yourself to be affected. But then again, the Police force is changing. There have been situations where I have seen something that has caused me a great deal of concern, and the Police are now quite happy to assist with de-briefings and the like, even psychological assistance is commonplace to enable officers to get over something that has traumatised them.K9. Does the nature of the job have any adverse affects on your life outside of your job?DK. (emphatically.) No.K9. What goes through your mind when the dog begins to signal that she has a find?DK. The initial thought that goes through my mind is ‘Great, I’ve got a find’, Simple as that. Although it is a delicate thing that I’m searching for, I am still a dog handler and I’m getting a result. Which is the reason that I’m there.After the interview David took me out to meet Missy. She was in a pen at the other end of the row of kennels. One thing I noticed was that every single dog in between David and Missy was deliriously excited by David’s presence. It was like a reverse domino rally as I watched each dog spring up in turn as David walked past them, politely acknowledging their presence.Missy was as excited as any body else in David’s presence and she soon demonstrated to everyone present exactly how well trained she was. As we walked with her David explained some of the science behind human remains detection.DK. When a person dies, the body automatically begins decomposing. The rate of decomposition depends on the conditions. If a body is buried it will be slower than if it were in the sun. If it is mummified, the process will be even slower as the covered body will be less susceptible to the decline induced by heat, or the presence of insects.K9. What is it exactly that the dogs trace?DK. The decomposing body is liquefied from the inside, by enzymes in the muscle tissue. This causes the body to swell, and give of the gas Hydrogen Sulphide. This what the dog will pick up on. There is H2S, present elsewhere in the atmosphere, which is why we use the pig. So that the gas is not taken in isolation and the dog is more familiar with what it should be seeking.Author DetailsI am K9 Magazine's managing editor and am always interested to hear from anyone with an interesting story to tell. - See this author's webpagePopularity: 40% [?]ShareThisEmail This Post Email This PostPrint This Post Print This PostThursday, February 28th, 2008 at 5:41 am and is filed under Dog Articles. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.One comment...What do you think?1. Posted by Waiting for good news on Sharlinie and Shannon but all we get is……. « Tembam’s Weblog 28th February, 2008 at 6:46 am[…] pretty creative with the kinds of stories they are coming up with. Try reading this story “I Find Dead People - A Day in the Life of a Human Remains (Cadaver) Detection Dog” that appeared in K9 Magazine Issue 5. There are stories expressing sympathy for […]What do you think? 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Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:46:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
VivSupertroll and the rest of the numpties are now making no secret of the fact that all they want to do is close your blog down. It ain't gonnan happen! Read the T&C of Blogger, they do not care what is on a blog, and will take no action at all to stop any blog, unless it is pretending to be written by someone it hasn't been (which yours isn't).This could be because their servers are based in Germany, whose libel laws are so lax, they aren't even worth mentioning, so they feel pretty safe at permitting all sorts of stuff...rat 21:52 GMTPLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:53:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
Viv,I have sent you an e-mail. If felicity123@live.co.uk is right.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:56:00 PM PST
irina said...
2345,Agree with you on Muldoon.I think we should be cool and wary these days, until more events.Justice will be served.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 1:59:00 PM PST

Anonymous said...
Good evening Mandz!Trained any good dogs recently?rat 22:02PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:03:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Ah, I see Mark 17 has joined us. What a dope!rat 22:07
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:07:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:09:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
I have never read on this blog that Madeleine and Kate were battered by Gerry. People,Please keep this blog "alive" for people who are really interested in justice for Madeleine.Can't get access to Alsabella's blog.Had it also yesterday with both blogs.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:10:00 PM PST
irina said...
anonymous,O Dear...Whatever...
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:11:00 PM PST
leigh3 said...
Ratty!You are genius to us Luddites :-)Anonymouse: learn to spell, and ffs, get an education.All else: dogs are man's best friend, and Madeleine's :-)p.s. Hi Felicity. xo
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:12:00 PM PST
irina said...
Viv, if something will go wrong with the blog, post a new thread on A3 with new blog link.That way we can find each other.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:14:00 PM PST
docmac said...
Hi RatIn the DE days it was only Mark and Alroy that used to click the publish button multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple times in a desperate attempt to get their posts posts posts posts posts seen.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:14:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
Last question is what is very important.Sorry Viv to repeat this again.* K9 Magazine* Dog News* Dogs for Adoption* Latest Pet Offers* Cat Advice* Cats for Adoption* Pet Chat* Work with AnimalsDog Magazine dot net - free online dog magazineby K9 Magazine, the lifestyle magazine for dog lovers* Home* About* Write About Dogs* Free Dog Magazine* AdvertisePopular Articles* Want to Send a Dog to Its Death? Get 'Qualified' to do so in 240 Minutes* Devil Dogs, Lies, Damn Lies & Media Hype* I Love Dogs, So Why Did I Have to Kill a Happy, Healthy Animal?* An Open Message to the British Media: Keep up the Devil Dog Hype, be Prepared to Live With THISFree K9 Media NewsletterThis is the space in which you will place sales copy for your email list.Most Commented Articles* Help Us in Call For Tougher Sentences for Animal Abusers (76)* Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier type attacks child, lets include articles and pictures of Rottweilers! (34)* Should ANYONE Be Allowed to be a Dog Owner? (29)* Want to Send a Dog to Its Death? Get 'Qualified' to do so in 240 Minutes (29)I Find Dead People - A Day in the Life of a Human Remains (Cadaver) Detection DogPosted By Sean O'Meara Date: 28/02 Posted Under: Dog ArticlesAs many will have heard in the news recently, the police are deploying the skills of specially trained dogs in the hunt for human remains at a former children’s home on the island of Jersey. Dogs have also been used in the recent high profile searches for missing girl Madeleine McCann and West Yorkshire schoolgirl Shannon Matthews. If you’ve ever wondered how these specialist sniffer dogs are trained or how they go about their work, K9 Magazine spoke with PC David King about what goes into training and working a cadaver dog.This Article Appeared In K9 Magazine Issue 5 - View A PDF Version Of This Article >>It is not until you actually own a dog is it that you realise just how strong the canine sense of smell is. I always knew that dogs could find us before we could find them, but as a dry nosed amateur, I did not fully appreciate the extent of their ability until I learned about human remains detection dogs.For centuries, dogs have assisted members of the Police force with such diverse jobs as detecting explosives, crowd control, detecting narcotics and physically apprehending criminals. But up until relatively recently human remains detection, or cadaver dogs and their human colleagues have been an under represented minority in the field of canine related police work.The common misconception has been for a while that cadaver dogs do not assist in crime prevention, they only assist in the collection of evidence. Although this is technically true, the life changing capabilities of these remarkable dogs are unequivocally staggering, as I was about to find out.A chilly, January afternoon in Hutton, Lancashire was the setting and Police Constable David King was my host. Meeting David, a serving officer since 1981 with over seven years experience with Police dogs, four of which specifically with cadaver dogs, was one of those experiences where all of your preconceptions are blown out of the water.It was one of those times where someone’s face could be no further from the image conjured up by the preceding telephone conversations, and to add a dash of surrealism, I was to be interviewing a police officer, something which half tempted me to use phrases like ‘for the benefit of the tape’ and ‘interview terminated at fifteen hundred hours’.I decided not to upon being shown to the room where PC King was waiting for me. You see, David was not the ‘Reg Hollis off the Bill’ type bumbling stereotype his telephone demeanour had suggested, he was in fact a man mountain who’s very presence seemed to command respect from his peers at the station and from anything on four legs within a square mile, add to this the fact that upon shaking his hand I realised that I was about to speak to a very, very strong man. I spoke to PC King about many things canine related, including drugs, toys and death. Here is how it unfolded.K9. How did you arrive at this vocation?DK. I became a police officer in1981, and went on to serve in various parts of the constabulary. I really enjoyed working in uniform, but after about ten years I decided that I wanted to specialise. I wanted to remain in uniform so I became a Police Dog handler.K9. So you carry out traditional Police duties as well?DK. Not anymore. My core task is dog training and instructing the dogs when searching for human remains.K9. Do you consider yourself a Police officer who works with dogs, or a dog handler who works for the Police?DK. (laughs.) You’ll get me into trouble with that one. No, the force ethos is that you are Police officers who work with dogs, but the reality for most dog handlers including myself is that you are definitely dog handlers first, who work for the Police.K9. What is the best breed of dog for this type of work and why?DK. We tend to use gun dog breeds for most work requiring a specialised dog. This includes cadaver dogs, but they are also excellent for detecting explosives and drugs. The reason for that is that Labradors and Spaniels represent a large portion of all dogs that are bred for work, and as such they tend to have better natural abilities.K9. Given the sensitive nature of the work, are there any special qualities you look for when selecting dogs to work with?DK. Ultimately the dogs have to be hard working dogs, that are willing to retrieve. But not special in the respect that we worry what people think about them, that is immaterial to us. It is pretty much the same criteria we require for dogs that search for explosives, we need highly motivated dogs that like to play.K9. Do you train the dogs to be passive or active? (Passive dogs lay down to signal a find, active dogs dig when they have a find)DK. My current dog (Missy, an extremely affable Golden Retriever) is trained as an active dog. Her reward when she has a find is food. If I was to train another human remains dog today the reward I would use would be a toy rather than food, simply because of past experiences I have had.K9. Narcotics dogs are trained with pseudo-narcotics, what do you use to simulate human remains?DK. Well firstly, we actually use real drugs to train with now. With regards to the human remains training we use a cadaverous pig. A dead pig is the closest you will get to a dead humanK9. What is the protocol when a person is missing feared dead, how do things unfold.DK. My main job is training, and I do that during the week. The dogs are worth nothing to me if I can’t train them. So searches usually happen at the weekend. Although it sounds insensitive, it is not a matter of urgency, although the Police usually want everything done yesterdayK9. Obviously it is a distressing experience when the dog has a find how do you praise or reward the dog in this situation ?DK. Although I am concerned about the job that I am doing and what it means to people, and I have feelings myself, I view all searches as training for my dog. You’ve got to be professional. One thing to remember is that the searches are almost always done away from the public eye, to protect the feelings of the people involved. But when Missy does have a find, it is imperative that I remain professional and give her praise in the usual way, which is lots of hand contact and verbal praise when she signals.K9. Do the dogs pick up on any emotion involved?DK. As soon as Missy signals a find, I move her away from the respective areas involved and go on to conduct the investigation with her out of the way. That is the only way you can do it.K9. Your job is one of contrast. You have the pleasure of working with the dogs you have spent a long time training, but you also have to deal with the less than pleasant issue of dead bodies. Does one cancel out the other?DK. No. Although it is very distressing, the majority of the time I am searching for people who have been murdered. There are also people who have gone missing, and quite a lot of times, I am searching for elderly people who have simply got lost on their own and succumbed to cold or fallen down. I always see it as allowing people who are related to the deceased to have closure. If it is murder, it allows us to continue the investigation, if it is a missing person, it finally allows people to grieve and say that that person is gone. That in itself gives me a degree of pleasure. I am able to let people carry on living their lives, whereas beforehand they would not have been able to do so.K9. How do switch off from work when you get home?DK. Again it comes down to experience of being a Police officer. You see a lot of things that upset you, not just death. You have to maintain a degree of distance. You cannot allow yourself to be affected. But then again, the Police force is changing. There have been situations where I have seen something that has caused me a great deal of concern, and the Police are now quite happy to assist with de-briefings and the like, even psychological assistance is commonplace to enable officers to get over something that has traumatised them.K9. Does the nature of the job have any adverse affects on your life outside of your job?DK. (emphatically.) No.K9. What goes through your mind when the dog begins to signal that she has a find?DK. The initial thought that goes through my mind is ‘Great, I’ve got a find’, Simple as that. Although it is a delicate thing that I’m searching for, I am still a dog handler and I’m getting a result. Which is the reason that I’m there.After the interview David took me out to meet Missy. She was in a pen at the other end of the row of kennels. One thing I noticed was that every single dog in between David and Missy was deliriously excited by David’s presence. It was like a reverse domino rally as I watched each dog spring up in turn as David walked past them, politely acknowledging their presence.Missy was as excited as any body else in David’s presence and she soon demonstrated to everyone present exactly how well trained she was. As we walked with her David explained some of the science behind human remains detection.DK. When a person dies, the body automatically begins decomposing. The rate of decomposition depends on the conditions. If a body is buried it will be slower than if it were in the sun. If it is mummified, the process will be even slower as the covered body will be less susceptible to the decline induced by heat, or the presence of insects.K9. What is it exactly that the dogs trace?DK. The decomposing body is liquefied from the inside, by enzymes in the muscle tissue. This causes the body to swell, and give of the gas Hydrogen Sulphide. This what the dog will pick up on. There is H2S, present elsewhere in the atmosphere, which is why we use the pig. So that the gas is not taken in isolation and the dog is more familiar with what it should be seeking.Author DetailsI am K9 Magazine's managing editor and am always interested to hear from anyone with an interesting story to tell. - See this author's webpagePopularity: 40% [?]ShareThisEmail This Post Email This PostPrint This Post Print This PostThursday, February 28th, 2008 at 5:41 am and is filed under Dog Articles. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.One comment...What do you think?1. Posted by Waiting for good news on Sharlinie and Shannon but all we get is……. « Tembam’s Weblog 28th February, 2008 at 6:46 am[…] pretty creative with the kinds of stories they are coming up with. Try reading this story “I Find Dead People - A Day in the Life of a Human Remains (Cadaver) Detection Dog” that appeared in K9 Magazine Issue 5. There are stories expressing sympathy for […]What do you think? 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Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:15:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Would you honestly want that messing about in your mouth? With a drill? When he doesn't even know that you only have to press the "submit" button once? He's probably been on the p*ss again. Have you noticed how many of the pros write utter rubbish on blogs when drunk? Obviously the McCann clan like their drink, even to the extent that they will abandon their own kids to go down the pub...rat 22:17 GMTPLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:18:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
OMG,Docmac,I posted this article twice because of all the posts before.I commented before that I wanted you to be here to explain about new posters and anonymous ones.Alsjeblieft help mij. Want ik kan het niet volgen.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:21:00 PM PST
irina said...
Re: liability.Hypothesis is not liable. And that is what we are posting - our hypotheses, thoughts on the case which due to the McCann's efforts is in a public domain.I can easily suggest that I think Kate is Martian and that is my right.So only reason for closure of the blog would be plain harassment (which is not here), plain abuse (not here) or, more likely, Clarence friends favor.I think that forensics as, 2345 pointed many times, do indicate that Madeleine met violent death and more likely from the hands of one of her parents.The exact details we shall wait and see.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:23:00 PM PST
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:25:00 PM PST
leigh3 said...
Ratty:You are genius to us Luddites :-) Hi Felicity: dog is man best friend, and Madeleine's, yes?Anonymouse: do please learn to spell, and btw, fss, get an education.Nice to see you all. Justice for Madeleine, and all children, in time. Such a pity it comes so slowly, imo.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:26:00 PM PST
leigh3 said...
Ratty:You are genius to us Luddites :-) Hi Felicity: dog is man best friend, and Madeleine's, yes?Anonymouse: do please learn to spell, and btw, fss, get an education.Nice to see you all. Justice for Madeleine, and all children, in time. Such a pity it comes so slowly, imo.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:26:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
AnonYou are posting the same thing on here again and again you are on the wrong site dear it is the other site who like to keep bragging about how many posts they have we dont care...It is quality not quantity you sad little annon and on and on...Oh you have made me laugh poor fool or are you paid by the word????
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:27:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
Docmac,Carlsberg is what you can drink? Is it Belgium?Someone mentioned Alroy last night!Leigh3,Nice to see you. We must be aware that Viv's blog will not be destroyed.Sorry Viv/2345,What is it exactly that the dogs trace?DK. The decomposing body is liquefied from the inside, by enzymes in the muscle tissue. This causes the body to swell, and give of the gas Hydrogen Sulphide. This what the dog will pick up on. There is H2S, present elsewhere in the atmosphere, which is why we use the pig. So that the gas is not taken in isolation and the dog is more familiar with what it should be seeking.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:34:00 PM PST
docmac said...
Hey Anonanalising (that's a scary concept but as you were once so interested in my underwear I suppose it's to be expected).kateperpreknownpsyychiatrist.As has been previously alluded to, you are a drunkard and a fool. Have a rest, maybe even check in for a bit of rehabilitation.ATARDI, ask Viv to forward your email address to me and you may even receive a reply out of South Africa. Yes, Supertroll and all the anons who post here, that backwater at the arse end of Africa where rejected medical students run whole hospital units for 15 years without even being reported to the 'GMC'. lolololol!!!
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:36:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
Hi Doc Atardi and any one else on There is a problem with Google all 3 sites I have looked at here Alsabellas and Trolls so I give up and wish you all good night..Some strange things going on and on and on LOL Night all read you tomorrow xxx
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:53:00 PM PST
docmac said...
Night Hope I'm off myself. Sleep well.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:58:00 PM PST
Atardi said...
Docmac, ik wil alleen maar gerechtigheid voor dit kind.Wat vind je van die nieuwe persoon?Sorry Viv, Another question:Why are the “bodily fluids” significant?When pathologists refer to bodily fluids they usually mean the putrefying substance created during the decomposition of a body tissue and blood. This “fluid” is evidence that a corpse has been present, but DNA samples are required to identify the body. It is unclear what “fluids” have been found. It might be traces of urine, dried blood or vomit, which would not conclusively prove Madeleine had died.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:16:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
Well with the filthy minds of some of these pros you can see why people have doubts...Someone should really have a look at this if it is being paid for itsomeone may want a refund.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:28:00 PM PST
leigh3 said...
Anonymouse.Cheese... Fetch!Justice for Madeleine and every child will come despite sociopaths like you.WE DO NOT FEED TROLLS. A bit of cheese for anonymouse and it's king rat masters ... well, let's just be generous, hey all :-)
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:04:00 PM PST
dylan said...
Oh my goodness. What on earth is going on? I can't believe i fell for this. I'm just not the sort of person who would want to accept that fellow human beings could act in this way. Thank you 2345 for all of your warnings. I have learnt a lesson today.Viv - i will email you and thank you (thank god) you didn't pass on my email. It's about time i started to realise that not everyone is like me.I will stick with your forum for as long as i can & I hope you can find a way around this, dear viv, as you have put so much effort into it for which I can't thank you enough. You are one of life's angels. xTo all of who i consider to be my freinds, here - Hope, LGC, Irina, Dolores, 2345, Docmac, wizard, Isis etc, if everything fails, please let's stay in touch, somehow.We shouldn't let these people do this to us & i'm determined NOT to give up or give in.Justice for Madeleine and the twinsxxxxx
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:08:00 PM PST
leigh3 said...
Night all sane posters.Felictiy, a bit of unsolicited advice, and I hope you don't mind this, but:-Duplicate obscene posts appeared on UK tabloid newspaper web sites and the DE was plagued with obscene avatars when the McCann Machine went into overdrive. I don't know if you can do what newspapers did, and stop the obscenities, but this is a ruthless ploy to destroy your site.Best wishes,Leigh3
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:28:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
Night LeighHope I am one of the sane x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:29:00 PM PST
dylan said...
Hope, thank goodness.You are a little ray of pure hope tonight & i loved your wedding dress story. Makes me think of all of the nice things in life which aren't here at the moment!I thought I would cry all of the way through my wedding but couldn't stop giggling. Every single photo of me - i look like a buffoon!I have emailed Viv to lend her my support & tell her she's a one-off. Truly a lovely person. If there were more like her on this cursed planet, I'm sure things would be a whole lot fairer.I'm not exactly too old to know better but not too young either. I guess, with my first entrance into live blogging only having started this last december, i've done quite well to still remain intact. All of the best horses fall at the last post!!If all else fails, I've still "met" some lovely people. Yourself included and some really incredibly bright people (LGC) - god, that sounds awful - you are lovely and bright too!And then there's viv, who has done so much in the name of justice....Can i have my oscar now please??!Bloody hell, what will i do if this site goes down?Dyl x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:32:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
DylWe will get hotmail accounts if it goes down but it wont because Viv can switch blogger back on and we can log in.My first blog wasthe DX and that was a baptism of fire but I got warey of people (as I thought they were all nice) how very wrong.If people have to resort to this filth then it shows how worried they are but then again there are a lot of nuts on the internet it could be anyone.....Did you have a nice meal?Google keeps crashing what a pain that has been....xxx 00.36
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:36:00 PM PST
leigh3 said...
Hope4truth and Dylan:The obscene posts were also used on the web sites of major UK newspapers when the McCann Machine went into overdrive.Remember: Gerry is from Glasgow. His family and friends have made very aggressive statements about their intention to 'defend' themselves, and it's clear that they have contempt for anyone who questions their version of events.Thugs on the DE have appeared all over the UK media, and here too now. They are desperate.God bless poor Madeleine. Maybe her 'disappearance' aged 3 spared her from a worse fate in the hands of thugs.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:37:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Dyl, cant sign in under my name as it says im not registered, have a great mothers day and will talk soon. ISIS
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:37:00 PM PST
dylan said...
Night Leigh 3,Yep - you are definately one of the sane, honey ;)Sleep well x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:38:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
DylWe will get hotmail accounts if it goes down but it wont because Viv can switch blogger back on and we can log in.My first blog wasthe DX and that was a baptism of fire but I got warey of people (as I thought they were all nice) how very wrong.If people have to resort to this filth then it shows how worried they are but then again there are a lot of nuts on the internet it could be anyone.....Did you have a nice meal?Google keeps crashing what a pain that has been....xxx 00.36
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:36:00 PM PST
leigh3 said...
Hope4truth and Dylan:The obscene posts were also used on the web sites of major UK newspapers when the McCann Machine went into overdrive.Remember: Gerry is from Glasgow. His family and friends have made very aggressive statements about their intention to 'defend' themselves, and it's clear that they have contempt for anyone who questions their version of events.Thugs on the DE have appeared all over the UK media, and here too now. They are desperate.God bless poor Madeleine. Maybe her 'disappearance' aged 3 spared her from a worse fate in the hands of thugs.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:37:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Dyl, cant sign in under my name as it says im not registered, have a great mothers day and will talk soon. ISIS
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:37:00 PM PST
dylan said...
Night Leigh 3,Yep - you are definately one of the sane, honey ;)Sleep well x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:38:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
Viv, I suspect it is Assasin.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:08:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
AnnonIt is sick isnt it I sugest you skip past it anyone who hides behind Annon is a coward and this one may soon have a knock on the door from the police.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:11:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
I would say they are definately nuts, how else do you explain all of it. Its like the diaries of a mad man. Hope its not Gerry himself!
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:11:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
VivGlad you have reported it I dont know what is worse the vile posts or the idiot Annon who is pretending to be shocked by it sad old boot....
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:12:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
AnnonAre you trying to sugest that it is only me that has a tin foil hat it is not the sas I am worried about but the Alians that are all around us...They are here you know that dont you..
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:14:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
OMG. There are plain clothes officers surrounding the building, they are preparing to absail through the windows to take me by suprise..Lucky I have the foil securely wrapped around my head.Wonder if I lay still will they mistake me for a rug?
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:14:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
A Mug not a rug
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:16:00 PM PST
dylan said...
Hi viv. Well done. I've said before that some people have gone too far.Pay no attention to the sick one. That person deserves nothing in so far as decency and response is concerned.You are a decent person & have lots of us willing to defend that.He/she/them keeps trying but will ultimately fail as they have no moral fibre or a leg to stand on.Hope, in true Bridget Jones style, I can do weddings and Bar Mitzvah too ;) x
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:17:00 PM PST
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:17:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
No i am tiered and spelling was never my strong point am I supposed to care that you think I am brainless???
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:20:00 PM PST
Anonymous said...
God the police did take you serious, there is a whole platoon of them marching up the street, batons drawn ready to charge in and take my p.c. Perhaps I will hide it in the cat.They will never find it there.
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:22:00 PM PST
hope4truth said...
DylLOL will remeber that...I cant belive I am up so late Husband is watching a rubbish film so I am doing some accounts (but have spent more time on here than on sage) LOL...
Saturday, March 1, 2008 5:22:00 PM PST

13 comments:

dylan said...

Viv, I guess posting stopped because of current goings on.

I feel for you and fervently wish you can carry on.

Have a lovely day tomorrow.

Dyl x

hope4truth said...

Dylan/Viv

Have a lovely mothers day I cant belive I am up so late runny scrambled eggs and toast in bed tomorrow at stupid O Clock no doubt so have to get some sleep so I can wake up happy and say how much I have been looking forward to it...

See you both xxx

dylan said...

Anon, lost my post to you but your spelling, grammar and punctuation leaves a lot to be desired.

When you have passed your GCSE in English, Hope (who is tired, still up and still working) may then oblige you with a reply to your rudeness. Until then - how about Peter and Jane? Starts with nice, easy monosyllabics.....

hope4truth said...

Dyl

Thanks for that my spelling is terrible especialy when I am tiered (well actually a lot of the time) but my Maths is red hot and I have just balanced my books no delay for me in April for the Tax man LOL

xxx

dylan said...

Hope, no worries! Am the worst perpetrator of the typo! See my "soilt" evening from before! (blush)

Goodnight & sweet dreams, honey. ( and I don't have short hair either!)

G'night viv. Wishing you all the best and hoping you will still have this site in the morning. Hope luke brings you something nice for your care and your love for him. There should be more mums like you in the world.

Dylan xxxxx

felicity said...

Hiya Dillie and Hope


Thanks for your loyalty and I am so sorry about that really terrible stuff that was written on here which needless to say is a criminal offence. The Police are watching this site now and others and I believe my site is quite safe from harm but those who behave in this way are not.

I just copied all the normal posts and put them back on a new thread deleting the other one - they will not win by their sickening behaviour.

Luv to you both and Happy Mother Day!

felicity said...

Madeleine McCann's mother 'fears charge'
By Caroline Gammell in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 1:37am BST 09/09/2007



Kate McCann has been advised by her lawyer that it is possible that she could be charged with the death of her daughter Madeleine, a family friend said today.

Shocked response from friends and family
Profile: Kate McCann drained by a mother's nightmare
Timeline: The Madeleine McCann inquiry
Full coverage: The search for Madeleine McCann
In an extraordinary encounter with detectives in Algarve, police suggested the four-year-old's blood was found in the back of the family's car which was hired five weeks after she went missing.


Video: Crowds gathered to support - and jeer - Kate McCann as she returned to the police station in Portimao today
Mrs McCann - who is now formally an "arguida" or suspect in the case - insisted the allegation was "ludicrous".

But the 39-year-old part-time GP now fears that she will be accused of being responsible for Madeleine's death and has been warned to be prepared for such a move by her lawyer Carlos Pinto de Abreu.

Her husband Gerry today dismissed any suggestion of his wife's guilt on his blog

"Anyone who knows anything about the 3rd May knows that Kate is completely innocent," he wrote. "We will fight this all the way and we will not stop looking for Madeleine."

A family friend said: "Kate's lawyer has advised her that she may be charged with her death. Kate know that she may be arrested, Gerry also knows that it's a possibility that Kate may be arrested and charged.

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"But she has done nothing wrong."

Mrs McCann returned to the police station in Portimao for a second day today to be questioned further by police.

She was declared an arguida in order for police to ask her a further 22 "difficult" questions surrounding Madeleine's disappearance.

As she arrived at the station, she was greeted by whistles and jeers as well as shouts of support from hundreds of on-lookers.

Mrs McCann, still carrying Madeleine's favourite toy Cuddle Cat, kept her head down as she strode past the waiting cameras.

The Portuguese police's allegations centred on the suggestion that traces of Madeleine's blood were found in the silver Renault Scenic hired by the McCanns 25 days after she went missing.

The McCanns' spokeswoman said Kate "robustly" defended herself against the claim.

"She was taken aback by the suggestion," she said. "It was the first time she had heard the allegation that blood had been found in the car. There was a suggestion that it was Madeleine's blood."

In pictures: The Madeleine McCann inquiry
The McCanns: In their own words
Video: Kate McCann re-interviewed
The extended McCann family today dismissed the allegations as "ludicrous", "insulting" and an "outrage".

Philomena McCann, Madeleine's aunt, told ITV's This Morning that it appeared the Portuguese police were trying to set up Kate and Gerry.

"There they are - the victims of this horrendous crime - and now the police are trying to sully their names in this disgusting manner with this smear campaign - it is just unbelievable," she said.

And the party of friends with whom the couple were dining on the night of Madeleine's disappearance said they were "appalled" at today's developments.

"She is innocent; we know this because we are her friends, we were with her on the night, and we witnessed first hand the unimaginable grief Kate and Gerry suffered and continue to suffer," they said in a joint statement.


Interactive graphic: The disappearance of Madeleine
"We will support them until this nightmare is over."

The McCann spokeswoman said questions should be asked about the quality of the forensic testing on the night Madeleine disappeared.

"The policeman only had a pair of gloves on when taking Kate and Gerry's fingerprints. They were taken so badly that had to be retaken the next day.

"There are legitimate questions to be asked about the forensics taken that night."

Previously Kate McCann and her husband Gerry had always met police together and officials described the meetings as informal. Both have denied any involvement in their daughter's disappearance.

The only other named arguido in the case is 33-year-old British expat Robert Murat who lives 150 yards from the apartment where the little girl disappeared in Praia da Luz on May 3.

As an arguida, Mrs McCann has greater legal protection than a witness, including the right to remain silent during questioning and the right to legal representation.

The McCanns had planned to return to the UK this Sunday, but their plans were put on hold after they were contacted by the Portuguese authorities on Monday and called for interview.

Dove said...

Hi Viv and all
I'm testing to see if I can post on here as I've had problems with it in the past.
Thanks for keeping us up-to-date with all that goes on with this case, I can't wait for the truth to come out.
Lots of love to you all.
xxx

felicity said...

Hiya Dove

Great to hear from you - we are all on the other thread defending the McCanns which judging by the above seems to involve the most repulsive suggestions!

Viv x

Bianca said...

Hi Viv, Claudia, Docmac, and all the wonderful people who write on this blog ... Happy Easter Day!

Viv, I will read your blog on Kate today (fascinating) but comment in a day or so (am a bit rushed!).

Dolores - yes, you are correct, I am of Italian background :-)

My mother is a New Zealander of Irish Catholic heritage, and my father is from Salerno in Italy. Dad came to Australia as a kid in the 50's, while mum didn't get here till 1970 (me born Sydney 1974).

Now - (I had to ring my dad to ask him how to write this! LOL) ..

La Pasqua Felice a tutta famiglia! (I hope I remembered that correctly!).

What part of Italy is your family from Dolores? My sister went to Italy a few years back but I haven't had the pleasure yet :-(

Anyway, have to get ready now as we are going to folks house soon for Easter dinner (my nonna will be bringing lasagna and Neapolitan pizza .. yummy!)

P.S. "Chardy" is simply the Aussie slang for Chardonnay :-)

Bianca said...

Just realised it's not Easter Day for you folks yet ... oops, sorry!

Happy Easter for TOMORROW (the bimbo strikes again!).

Bianca xx

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