15 Mar 2008


So, Mr Correio is actually searching in the wrong Lake and is had been confirmed the bones found in the bag which the Metodos rushed off with were animal bones...
Gerry McCann, as we know, loves his mobile phone and carries everywhere with him. They emit signals even when not in use, which mean a person's location can be accurately traced. Gerry is reported to have given false information as to how whereabouts in June to police who no from mobile phone information he was about 20 km away from where he said he was. You can bet Dr Rebelo did not order the above Lake to be searched for no good reason. Oh and so much for Rosiepops still bleating on they did not even do a 15 KM ring search - confirms they did, several times!
Viv x

Lake Bravura (Barragem)
This beautiful large man made lake is in the heart of the Algarve's loveliest wooded hills and rolling countryside near to Lagos. It provides the perfect setting for peaceful walking, canoeing, horse-riding, bird-watching, fishing and nature lovers alike. It is a great place to relax away from the hustle and bustle of busy beaches and resorts. And for those feeling slightly more energetic there are excellent dirt tracks ideal for mountain biking and running, or even a spot of windsurfing on the beautiful crystal clear lake water! Quite simply, you can do as much or as little as you desire.

Maddie: Police to search in lakeMonday, October 15, 2007
Maddie McCann
A lake near the resort where Madeleine McCann disappeared is to be trawled by Portuguese police frogmen, it was reported.
Known as the 'reservoir of the wilderness', the Barragem da Bravura lake was given a 'cursory glance' by police four days after she went missing on May 3.
However, the police chief who took over the investigation last week is said to believe it merits further examination.
It is thought her body may have been weighed down with rocks and dumped in the water 25km (15miles) north of Praia da Luz.
Police are also thought to be planning to comb a stretch of beaches and coastline between Praia da Luz and Burgau.
Last night, Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann were said to be 'dismayed and realistic' that the Portuguese investigation is focusing on finding their fouryear- old daughter dead, The Sun reported.
While remaining optimistic that she is still alive, the couple are said to hope that they will be eliminated as suspects if their daughter's body is found.
A family friend said: 'It would be a tragedy for Kate and Gerry. But if she is dead, then she is dead, but not by their hand.
'They want the cloud of suspicion lifted from them. They are encouraged by any renewed vigour in the case.'
The 39-year-olds, from Rothley, Leicestershire were declared arguidos, or official suspects, last month.
The couple are hoping the results of forensic tests, expected today, will clear them. They strenuously deny any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance.

UK News
McCanns: Portuguese police search lake for Madeleine's body
National chief of Portuguese Judiciary Police, Alipio Ribeiro (R), and Paulo Rebelo (L), one of Portugal\'s national deputy police chiefs who has been appointed as new chief investigator in the Madeleine McCann case two days ago, arrive for their joint press conference at the Judiciary Police headquarters in Faro, Portugal, 10 October 2007. EPA/LUIS FORRA');

National chief of Portuguese Judiciary Police, Alipio Ribeiro (R), and Paulo Rebelo (L), one of Portugal's national deputy police chiefs who has been appointed as new chief investigator in the Madeleine McCann case two days ago, arrive for their joint press conference at the Judiciary Police headquarters in Faro, Portugal, 10 October 2007. EPA/LUIS FORRA
By Rich Bowden, M&C Staff Writer Oct 15, 2007, 9:27 GMT
The police chief who took over the running of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, has ordered a secluded lake near the holiday resort where she was last seen be searched for her body.\nPaulo Rebelo, one of Portugal\'s most senior detectives, has ordered the move and police frogmen are investigating the possibility that her body may have been weighed down with rocks and dumped in the lake known as the \'reservoir of the wilderness\'.\nThe four-year-old disappeared from her parents\' holiday apartment in Praia da Luzon, southern Portugal on May 3. Both Kate and Gerry McCann have been named suspects in the case by Portuguese police though no charges have been laid.\nA family friend of the McCanns told the Sun newspaper the discovery of Madeleine\'s body would be a "...a tragedy for Kate and Gerry" but added "They want the cloud of suspicion lifted from them. They are encouraged by any renewed vigour in the case."\nFamily spokesman Clarence Mitchell told reporters the McCanns "...are realistic enough to know Madeleine may be dead. But any widening of the search area is encouraging and we would welcome that."\nMr Rebelo has also demanded renewed searches within 10 miles of the holiday resort where Madeleine disappeared.\n ';
(M&C) - The police chief who took over the running of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, has ordered a secluded lake near the holiday resort where she was last seen be searched for her body.
Paulo Rebelo, one of Portugal's most senior detectives, has ordered the move and police frogmen are investigating the possibility that her body may have been weighed down with rocks and dumped in the lake known as the 'reservoir of the wilderness'.
The four-year-old disappeared from her parents' holiday apartment in Praia da Luzon, southern Portugal on May 3. Both Kate and Gerry McCann have been named suspects in the case by Portuguese police though no charges have been laid.
A family friend of the McCanns told the Sun newspaper the discovery of Madeleine's body would be a "...a tragedy for Kate and Gerry" but added "They want the cloud of suspicion lifted from them. They are encouraged by any renewed vigour in the case."
Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell told reporters the McCanns "...are realistic enough to know Madeleine may be dead. But any widening of the search area is encouraging and we would welcome that."
Mr Rebelo has also demanded renewed searches within 10 miles of the holiday resort where Madeleine disappeared.


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2345 said...


Thanks for the articles. I doubt any reliable unpaid witness has actually seen the 'alleged' european sock, rope, bit of plastic and/or animal bone.
It's a farce - 100% guaranteed with Metado 3 on the scene !

Niki said...

Good morning all!

What a happy news that Shannon is found alive! Must she quikly recover from her trauma!

Have been reading some of the posts from yesterday, and saw that Lizzy had copied a post from Vera, who was in PDL at the same time as the McCanns. Vera has also written this, which really sums up Gerrys spin:

"I have seen and heard every single live interview (I don’t take any notice of what the papers print) that they have given and have noticed that their version of what happened that night has changed with each interview especially Gerry’s version of events of when he checked up on the children.

In the first interview he said that he saw Madeleine asleep.

In the second interview he said that she was not in bed and had probably gone into their room as the twins might have disturbed her (these are the same twins that never wake up at night, just as Madeleine, according to her parents, never wakes up at night).

In the third interview, Gerry said that he didn’t see Madeleine and he thought that she might have got up to go to the toilet. He didn’t check though.

In the fourth interview Gerry said that he didn’t see her because she had probably got up for a drink of water. Again he didn’t check this out.

In another interview with the magazine Vanity Fair, he said that he saw Madeleine in her bed and stood there looking at her and thinking how very lucky he was to have such a beautiful daughter."

Gerry has also written on his blog again, and edited it: Here comes both versions:


Kate and I heard the totally heart-warming news today that Shannon Matthews has been recovered safely. We are delighted for her family and hope and pray that Shannon has not suffered too much during the last 24 days.

Although the circumstances may be different, finding Shannon alive does give Kate and me renewed optimism. I am reminded of Ernie Allen’s ( the president of NCMEC) words: ‘until you know who has taken Madeleine and why, you cannot give up hope’. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why, and there is certainly no indication that Madeleine has been seriously harmed. Of course we will not give up hope. Someone somewhere knows where Madeleine is.


Kate and I heard the totally heart-warming news today that Shannon Matthews has been recovered safely. We are delighted for her family and hope and pray that Shannon has not suffered too much during the last 24 days.

Although the circumstances may be different, finding Shannon alive does give Kate and me renewed optimism. I am reminded of Ernie Allen’s ( the president of NCMEC) words: ‘until you know who has taken Madeleine and why, you cannot give up hope’. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why, and there is certainly no
(and it ends...)
(Thank you ferret 3A!)
Have a nice day everyone:)
I'm off

hope4truth said...

Morning 2345

We havent heard from Shannons Mum yet her Dad was very dignified just saying he had not given up looking for her and was pleased she had been found and the police must get on with their job (although he must have just wanted to hold her)...

The police and scocial services have done the right thing by Shannon by protecting her until all the answeres are out there and we know what happend to her. If it was my child I would be desprated to be with her but would have to accept they needed to investigate fully to make sure she was safe.

Can you imagine if the twins had been taken away the moment Madeleien went missing the McCanns would have sued and the Pros would be screaming at how useless the police are articles would be written saying havent they suffered enough etc...

I really dont want to see the twins in care (but I allways look for the good in people) and think if there was an accident they would not leave them for it to happen again... But thankfully I dont have to make decisions like that.

Have just checked the link from annon and the quote about pushing a button and all being gone was a bit disturbing but I have not seen the origanal article so not sure if it was said or not..

Such a sad world x

Zodiac said...

I am not surprised that Shannon would be put under an emergency Police Protection order, I believe that any child in the same circumstances would be placed under the same order until it has been very carefully investigated. Good wishes to Shannon and her family and I hope they are all reunited soon.

The mother in Goa. Whilst I have sympathy for her in the loss of her daughter, I have no sympathy with her and the neglect towards her daughter. Have I missed it, did the McCanns send a public message from Rothley Manor to this mother.

Gerry's blog: 'there is certainly no indication that Madeleine has been seriously harmed'. This child has been missing for over 10 months, how on earth could he possibly know this. More spin. IMO. Why change it? Change this, change that everyone else except myself are complete idiots anyway, is his thinking. IMO.

2345 said...


I agree with everything you say. Shannon's case is a sharp reminder of how the authorities should and do work.

It's the way Maddie's case has been handled, the lies, the unrelenting PR spin the money which the British public find utterly offensive. Look at the way those who respect the police and forensic evidence are treated in Forums. It took me a while to get my head round the behaviour in DE Forum; my first experience of online debating. It wasn't until Ironside posted an article on media manipulators , keyboard monkeys, aka sock puppets, that the presence of a highly offensive few made any sense. I then realized that our democratic right to free speech was not only being attacked, but silenced. The means by which it was meted did and still does make me extremely angry and all the more determined.

I'm 60 years young, a mother of 3 now adult children; but for experience, I would not have believed the level of political dishonesty and corruption - or that it had been applied to this case from day one.

The truth in Maddie's case is very straightforward. PJ's suspicions were shown to be 100% correct by cadavers, forensic finds and damning results. End of in terms of 'what happened'. As far as the police are concerned there are 'no problems'; they found the answers they were committed to finding last July. You or I along with our husbands would have been held in custody.

Police efficiency in Shannon's case is a sharp reminder of the problems and delays caused to the police in Maddie's case. FSS findings were delay, Rogatory Letters for over 4 months; the Home Office lied to people making enquiries. Wizard posted his e-mail to HO & their wholly dishonest reply.

IMHO the ramifications of this case will continue for years, whatever the outcome. It's the first time in criminal/political history that politicians have backed the prime suspects in the death and disappearance of their child. I have no qualms about stating 'death' as a fact because the damning forensics were given to the BBC by Leicester Police. They did their duty well - they publicly broadcast via BBC & Sky that there was NO abduction.

I was the only person in our family who did not suspect the parents in the early stages. 7 September - day damning forensics were aired to the nation revealed horrific truths. The McCanns were guilty, cold calculating fraudsters. I didn't start learning about corrupt Government interference until I joined DE Forum.

So, I remain focussed on the trust worthy and hard forensic evidence on the files of PJ & Leicester Police. Against all odds and corruption, they continue to inch forward for Maddie and her rights.

I'm about to paste an article from Alsa's blog; Paulo Perea Cristovao's book on Government interference in this case. I'm sure many more will follow. Other cuntries have full insight into political corruption in Britain which is very, very good - especially for the police.

2345 said...

Paulo Pereira Cristovão speaks out for his former colleagues

The author of "Estrela de Madeleine" (Star of Madeleine) says about his book that it is "a book that will bother, but I'm free to write what my conscience dictates", he tells 24 Horas.

In the Star of Madeleine, Pereira Cristovão basis himself on conversations with work colleagues, the news, police intervention, and most particularly on the political pressure to which the investigation "was subjected".

"When you have the prime minister of one country talking about how he is going to talk about this with his counterpart about an ongoing crime investigation, there is influence"he states. And it is based on that influence and "British interference" that he places the two PJ investigators, Francisco Meirelles and João Gomes (ficticious names) on the field.

The book begins with the officers being informed of the disappearance of a child from a resort in Praia da Luz. "The information arrived late. There was already a British tv station, the embassy, the British police, and a PJ head that had knowledge of the disappearance and only after was the PJ investigating team informed".

"Time was wasted and then the Police bowed before a theory that was built from the outside in. And the only ones that are going to be thwarted will be the police" he accuses.

Paulo Pereira Cristovão confesses this he is approaching this book differently and in a pro-Portuguese manner. "I want to show we may be (a) poor (country) but resourceful. And that British interference only hindered my colleagues work", he says. For that reason he dedicates his book to his former colleagues from Portimão, Faro, and the DGCB. The Star of Madeleine ends with an enigmatic sentence.

Whoever figures it out will have the key as to what the author thinks happened to Madeleine. No one has been able to so far. As of next Tuesday, Pereira Cristovão invites you to try.

24 Horas, 14-03-2008

Posted by alsabella at 11:05:00 PM 35 comments

dolores said...

I posted this yesterday, it was taken from the Vanity Fair interview

Kate said: "It really isn't easy," coping. "Some days are better than others. ... There's days when you think, 'I can't do this anymore,' and you just want to press a button, and we're all gone, and it's all finished, and we're all together and gone. Wherever. But you can't, you know. Just occasionally you'll have a -- if you're having a really bad day, which we do. And you can't help but think that."
,and quite disturbing.

atardi said...

Shannon Matthews relives ordeal

Mar 15 2008 by Andrew Hirst, Huddersfield Daily Examiner

NINE-year-old Shannon Matthews will today start to relive her month-long missing ordeal and has not yet been allowed to see her parents.

Highly-experienced and specially-trained police officers will make sure the questioning is as gentle a process as possible for the timid youngster.

Police revealed last night that Shannon has been made the subject of an Emergency Police Protection Order during this crucial stage of the investigation to find out what has happened to her over the last 24 days.

This means she will not be going home for now and is in the care of Kirklees Social Services.

A police spokesman said: “As part of our ongoing inquiries and following medical checks, West Yorkshire Police will begin the process of interviewing Shannon.

“This may be a long process, but throughout this inquiry our main focus has been and continues to be Shannon’s welfare. We have therefore taken the decision that, for now, it is in Shannon’s best interests that she be made subject of an Emergency Police Protection Order. This will remain in place until we have had time to establish the full facts of what happened in the time since her disappearance.”

However, Shannon’s family were still overjoyed and dad, Leon Rose, said his reunion with his daughter will be like “winning the lottery’’ and revealed he had even been searching in the area where Shannon was eventually found.

The 29-year-old from Kirkburton spoke shortly after police dramatically raided a flat in Batley Carr at 12.30pm yesterday and found Shannon, 24 days after she disappeared.

Mr Rose thanked everyone who helped in the search – and insisted he had never given up hope.

“I did say on the news I wasn’t going to give up until she was found,’’ he said. “I’ve kept going and every day I went out there as much as I could.

“Believe it or not where she’s been found I’d actually been in that area a number of times and probably just walked straight past the house that she were in because I was looking in fields and stuff like. Half the time I was just driving about, just hoping to see her walking about.”

Shannon’s 32-year-old mum, Karen, and stepfather Craig Meehan did not at first believe the dramatic revelation that she had been found, thinking it was too good to be true.

Craig, 22, received a text message from a family friend which told them she had been found alive.

Reading the text message, Craig couldn’t believe it and dismissed it instantly after previously having received similar messages.

“I couldn’t believe it,’’ he said. “I wouldn’t believe it. I thought to myself there’s no way that anyone would find out before us.

“We’ve had these before and it really messes with your heart every time it happens so we’ve started to take them with a pinch of salt.”

Family friend Petra Blanksby said: “I can’t believe Shannon was so close. It’s strange because nobody has seen her for 24 days and she was just 10 minutes down the road.

“I saw Karen and Craig leave the house with police. Craig had a big smile on his face and Karen just winked at me as she walked out of the door.”

Children returning from school to houses in Shannon’s road were crying and hugging each other. Eight-year-old Callie Brown who is in Shannon’s class at school, said: “We all had to go into the hall for an assembly. I was crying my eyes out.’’

Shannon had not been seen since she disappeared after a school swimming trip on February 19.

Near Shannon’s home at Moorside Road in Dewsbury Moor, family and friends stood in the road celebrating by drinking cans of beer and bottles of wine.

Family friend Petra Jamieson said she was angry that Shannon’s parents had been under suspicion over her disappearance.

“Karen and Craig are like any normal family,’’ she said.

“They get angry with their kids sometimes. That’s just like the rest of us.

“But at least the bad stories kept it in the papers and now Shannon has been found. That’s the main thing.”

Dewsbury MP Shahid Malik said: “The town has been at a standstill for the past three weeks wondering and worrying about the outcome of the police search. Town life can now restart as we move back to normality.

“The whole town and country will celebrate with Dewsbury and there will be a collective sigh of relief across the United Kingdom.’’

Kirklees Mayor Jean Calvert added: “It’s an immense relief for the family, relatives and friends of Shannon and those who have been supporting the efforts to find her and have shown so much concern over what has been a very traumatic few weeks for them and the local community.’’

Paul Tuohy, chief executive of charity Missing People, said: “This will also offer hope to other families who await news of a missing loved one.

“At any one time the charity has around 6,000 open missing cases and we hope that each and every one will have the same successful resolution.

“Like Shannon, every missing person matters and we hope that the interest in missing people as a social issue will now stay firmly on the agenda of Government, policymakers and the media.”

Kate and Gerry McCann, the parents of missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann, were among the first to welcome the news.

atardi said...


Sometimes I feel the same. (Such a sad world)That's why we have to do something. Like posting here for Justice for Madeleine.

Last week we had here another sad case where a father killed his 2 children and than committed suicide. Here it's called "familiedrama". This made me so angry. And still cannot understand why a parent would do this to his own kids.

See you later.

Going to watch football!

isis said...

Dolores, i read that excerpt aswell and didnt know quite how to interpret it, i agree with you it is a disturbing thing to say either way.

leigh3 said...

Hi All,

My 'man of the people'...and ordinary, working man typical of the UK male (work,sport,family,friends; that's his life), told me today that coverage of Shannon and Madeleine's case make him aware of the differences between the two; the fact that Shannon's family, for all their strengths and weaknesses, responded fully within their limited finance, and knowledge vs The McCanns with big money, big political and other support who demand that everyone but them search and find 'missing' Maddie.

The tide has turned. Some of us have been disturbed by the McCann case for a long time whilst it targeted and manipulated innocent public opinion, shamelessly.

Now even the honest Joe Public, working hard for a living, and no time to spare, is aware that the McCanns and others have manipulated kind hearted, simple hearts. Now those hearts are aware that it is minds that will solve this case, not sentiment.

Personally, I'm delighted that Shannon has been found alive, and this confirms that most missing children know their abductors...yes, Gerry? Yes, it is then. Time tells all.

2345 said...

Leigh 3,

Well said .... spot on.

Not forgetting little Mari, found dead but not sexually abused by alleged 'abductor' ???

viv said...

Hiya all

If there is one thing the search by Mr Correio has taught us, in the wrong Lake, it must surely be, only listen to official details of Madeleiene's case conducted by the Police.

Metodo 3, Mr Correio etc. are not allowed to interfere in the official police case or the witnesses at all. So they turn up everywhere else!

Leigh, it is true, for the most part, children who are abducted or murdered, know the person who did this, as Madeleine quite clearly did.

It is sad for little Shannon what has happened to her, and we just do not know what, but at least she is now in safe hands and will receive the very best of care from now on.

In the case of Mari Luz, I wish the Police a breakthrough in the investigation so that her parents can get what they will now need for comfort, Justice for them and their little girl and all other litle children who suffer serious abuse. Conviction of perpetrators is always a step forward in protecting other children.

Let us hope the PJ will soon arrive.

viv said...

That is if the PJ are not already here. I note Rosiepops denied there were flights from Faro into Birmingham. As I reported, there was one last Sunday...

It is a bit pathetic to simply deny the truth, isn't it?

hope4truth said...

2345 / dolores

2345 I have never seen anything like this case in my life. I feel for any parent who has lost a child but their attitude put me off them especialy as they were making excuses about neglecting the children because that is what it was selfish neglect. Most people would be ashamed and guilty about the fact that by leaving her it allowed her to be taken but it was clear they were not going to be held responible for any of it. Much better to pass the buck to the PJ..

Dolores Thanks for the quote I knew I had read it somewhere but could not think where it had come from. It is a frightening thing to say and I would imagine if a parent said it to a Dr or Healt Visitor they would be very concerened about the children in your care...

Just reading back I have been to the Pictures with my girls xxx

viv said...

Hiya - just removed my earlier post as I did a bit more research as to where Rosiepops is getting all its information from for today's posts and I found it - in The People! Funny it does not choose to name it reliable source: However, a check through Rosie's post today will confirm it goes even further than what The People say - bizarre!

19 August 2007
EXCLUSIVE Brit detectives' verdict.. and flaws in inquiry
By Rachael Bletchly
The Portuguese police hunting Madeleine McCann have been branded "Keystone Cops" by British officers shocked at their appalling blunders.

Detectives from Leicestershire are said to be horrified that clues which could have led to the tot's abductors have probably been lost forever.

The British cops, drafted in to review the three-month investigation, were stunned by the "incompetence, inaccuracy and crass inefficiency" they found.

A source close to the team said the officers had been "tearing their hair out in frustration and disbelief" at basic errors which have hindered the search for four-year-old Maddie.

He told The People: "The Portuguese investigation has been a total shambles. Our guys were left shaking their heads at every turn asking: 'Why the hell did they do that...why didn't they do this?' "They are shocked, disappointed and p***** off by what they've found because basic procedures were not followed.

"Local police appear to have been running around like the Keystone Cops without any proper co-ordination."

The source added: "Crucial clues may have been lost and valuable hours were wasted.

The McCanns' apartment was scrubbed out and occupied by new tenants only five weeks after Madeleine disappeared and the inquiry was supposedly still highly active. When our guys arrived after 13 weeks they had to go back to square one - except square one had been trampled over with size 11 boots."

The Portuguese investigators came under fire within hours of Maddie's disappearance in Praia da Luz on May 3 for failing to seal off the area, start house-to-house enquiries and alert border guards.

Officers leading the hunt have even been criticised by local journalists over their long lunches and apparently laid-back attitude.

Police chief Guilhermino Encarnacao, 59, was dubbed Inspector Clueless.

He has refused to comment in public about the case since the second day after Maddie vanished. When no progress was made in the inquiry after three months, detectives from the Judicial Police invited specialists from Leicestershire to fly out to review the case. Maddie's parents, doctors Gerry and Kate, are from Rothley in the county.

The British team included a forensics expert and a Crackerstyle criminal profiler.

Within days they found specks of blood on the walls and curtains of the holiday apartment where Maddie had been left sleeping.

The potentially-crucial evidence, missed by Portuguese police, has now been analysed in a British lab.

Preliminary findings show the blood is that of a white European man - most likely one of the holidaymakers who moved in weeks after Maddie vanished.

A full report is expected next week but experts say the blood sample is only 72 per cent accurate as it was contaminated with detergent used to clean the flat.

Despite the scientists' caution Portuguese police jumped the gun last weekend by announcing they had new clues and developments that pointed to Maddie being dead.

And police spokesman Olegario Sousa bragged: "Never has there been so much evidence collected in a crime scene by specialised teams.

"Every single detail is being examined very carefully. We spent four days in the past week or two inside the apartment."

But the British police source said: "When he says 'We' I think he means Portuguese officers led by British experts.

"And if there was still so much evidence to be had you have to ask what could have been found in the first 24 hours."

The shambles piles more anguish on Kate and Gerry McCann who - 108 days on - are still praying for their daughter's return.

And the only official suspect or "arguido" in the case, estate agent Robert Murat, is still in limbo waiting to be cleared. He is banned from discussing the case.

There was no lockdown

1 LOCAL police failed to "lock down" and seal off the Mark Warner Ocean Club resort immediately after Madeleine was reported missing at 10pm on May 3.

Her parents were certain that she had been snatched and told officers straight away.

But police, under "Inspector Clueless" Guilhermino Encarnacao, seemed convinced the tot had simply wandered off.

They did not set up roadblocks which just may have snared the abductors.

House to house

2 COPS' failure to accept they had an abduction on their hands meant they did not launch an immediate search of nearby holiday flats and villas or question locals.

House-to-house enquiries started two days later and most of the 500 properties were not visited until after any kidnapper had been given ample time to flee.


3 BORDER officials should have been told of Maddie's disappearance without delay. A kidnapper could have driven to the Spanish frontier from Praia da Luz in less than an hour. But police only alerted staff at the border 12 hours later.


4 COASTGUARDS and maritime police were not alerted for 14 hours. If cops thought Maddie had wandered off, a search of the nearby beach and sea should have been an obvious and vital move.

There is a also a marina less than 10 minutes' drive from the McCanns' flat, providing an escape route for an abductor. More than 10 boats left before maritime police were warned.


5 THE first police appeal for a suspect did not come until 22 days after Maddie vanished.

Cops later said in Portuguese they were seeking a 170cms (5ft 7ins) man but muddled the conversion and said in English he was 5ft 10ins tall.

At one stage police were showing six different E-fit images to local people and one artist's impression was a simple outline said to be "like an egg with hair on."

Cuddle Cat 'clue'

6 MUM Kate McCann was convinced Maddie had not just wandered off because the tot's favourite soft toy Cuddle Cat was still in the room where she slept with twins Sean and Amelie, two.

Police did not take the toy for forensic tests even though an abductor may have touched it.

Kate was seen clutching it 24 hours later at a press conference and has since washed it as it was dirty and covered in suntan lotion.

British experts say Cuddle Cat should have been sealed in a plastic bag then tested.

The most minute drop of sweat or a single skin cell could have revealed the DNA of Madeleine's kidnapper.


7 A MASSIVE search party should have been organised by police at first light the morning after Maddie disappeared. Instead just 150 police took part in the first searches and they were poorly organised and random.


8 A FULL list of other guests at the Ocean Club resort ought to have been compiled by police with the help of staff within hours of the tot's disappearance.

But they did not get the information until almost 48 hours later - and a day AFTER many potential witnesses had returned home at the end of their holidays. Staff were only quizzed 60 hours later.


9 A DIRECT appeal to the abductor is usually considered vital in the first hours of a kidnapping. Police seek advice from psychologists to carefully word any plea. But it was Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate who made the public appeal themselves. There was not even a Portuguese police officer at the couple's press conference.

Stranger's DNA found

10 DETECTIVES revealed on June 1 that they had found the DNA of a stranger in the McCanns' apartment.

But they could not check if it was from a known paedophile as Portugal does not have a computerised DNA database of perverts.

The DNA did not match the profile of suspect Robert Murat.


11 THE area immediately surrounding the McCanns' holiday apartment was never properly sealed off by police - even though vital clues are often discovered at such a scene.

People were allowed to walk on the flat's front porch 24 hours after Maddie disappeared. There were no fingertip searches and police sniffer dogs were not brought in until large crowds had gathered in the area, confusing any valuable scent. Mark Williams- Thomas, a highly experienced former British detective who travelled to the resort, called it "the worst preserved crime scene I have ever seen".

The original searches did not find the blood in Madeleine's bedroom and her parents' room.

Specialist sniffer dogs and ultra-violet lights were not used. Staggeringly, police gave the go-ahead for the flat to be occupied again although enquiries were continuing.

And by the time the British team checked the apartment it had already been thoroughly cleaned.


12 DETAILS of the pyjamas Maddie was wearing should have been released straight away.

Anyone who saw her would probably have recalled the distinctive pink Eeyore nightwear.

But officers repeatedly refused to issue a description and it was left to her parents to give details an astonishing four days later.


13 IMAGES from CCTV cameras on the main A22 motorway leading out of Praia da Luz towards Spain were not checked.

Robert Murat

14 SUSPECT Robert Murat's home was raided by police who seized his computers.

When they found names and four-digit numbers on a spreadsheet they were convinced they had unearthed "encrypted codes for a paedophile ring."

But the list was simply a family tree giving the names and birth dates of the estate agent's relatives.

Portuguese police bungled their search of Murat's garden.

They did not clear bushes and shrubs - British officers later ordered gardeners to hack away the undergrowth.

They then made a thorough search and inserted probes into the ground to seek any trace of human remains.

Portuguese officers also searched a guest house run by Murat's aunt in nearby Burgao.

They hacked at the concrete-hard ground with picks until it dawned on them that the area had not been disturbed in years.

Baby seat

15 COPS last week said they were looking at a new suspect - a British man who returned a hire car to Faro airport two days after Maddie vanished.

The vehicle had a child seat in the back but no child. Car rental staff alerted police, whose interest was fired when they found the customers were James and Charlotte Gorrod - who had been on holiday in Praia da Luz and knew friends of the McCanns.

But the innocent couple were never questioned. The hire firm had failed to notice the Gorrods had their two-year-old son with them all along. But police leaked word of a "new lead" to Portuguese reporters.


16 DETECTIVES wasted time following up tip-offs from psychics and cranks.

Two weeks after Maddie vanished a local medium claimed she had "zoned-in" on map co-ordinates pinpointing a well in which Maddie was being hidden. She said the little girl was still alive.

Cops threw a stone down the well to test the bizarre tip-off - without thinking of the injury to Maddie if she had been there.

leigh3 said...

Hiya Viv,

Quite so: Rosiepops is not a dear little Granny, living by the seaside, gardening, and liking birds of the feathered kind...just a note about her public profile which is a total 100% lie, in my view, based on 'her' posts on the DE, and elsewhere.

Psychopops serves a cynical purpose: lie about the facts of 'missing' Madleine Beth McCann, and ensnare others to believe the lie or serve the lie.

Hiya Rosiepops, the Madame of a House of Ill Repute, drawing impoverished souls and mercenaries into lying down for you in every way, just as I always said you did.

McCann Machine: busted. It's all over bar the shouting...

leigh3 said...

Yes, 2345. I believe you are right, again.

Mari Luz might be a rare case. I don't believe she is a rare case. Time will tell :-) Facts and figures, not fantasy or fiction will tell the truth, in time, however long it takes :-)

Holly said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
hope4truth said...

Questions need to be answered a 3 year old child is missing what question would a mother not answer if she really believed she had been taken?

Madeleine is the victim and like Shannon her parents come second to her suffering. Shannon has been placed in care while the Police and Social Services find out if she is still in danger and I dont hear anyone screaming about her poor parents not being allowed to have her back just yet.

When are people going to start putting the child first and although support the parents realise that the Victim is the only one who really matters and like Shannon we dont know what really happend that night and the people who are getting the sympathy may well be responsible for her not being here anymore.

And for sure if they had not left her alone she would not have been taken.

When all the questions have been answered and any evidence produced we will know more about what happend but until that time I will pray for Madeleine if she turns up like Shannon did it will be another truly happy day.

atardi said...


I think you meant Madeleine in the 3th paragraph.

hope4truth said...

Hi Atardi

Did your daughter win???

No I ment Like Shannon we dont know what happend (maybe should have said like Shannon we dont know what really happend to Madeleine)...

How are you? xxx

atardi said...


Got it.
You are right we don't know what really happened to both. Next week we will hear/read what happened to Shannon.

As for Madeleine, we don't know exactly what happened but after so much spin we all suspect her parents have something to do with her tragic disappearance/death.

Yes, they won again. And no she didn't score.But I enjoyed to see her playing again.
At this moment she is playing a final indoor tournament. Haven't heard nothing untill now. So it doesn't look good.

ratonthebeam said...

Well for a start, the Gorrods WERE questioned. Or so they said in the interview they gave to the Scotsman last September.

atardi said...


Rosiepops is quoting from an article back in august 2007. At that time people cuold be influenced. But it doesn't work anymore.

I can think for myself.

What she forgot to mention is that the PJ not only worked with police from England but also from different countries.

So if she wants to blame the PJ she must add more countries to her blame list.

hope4truth said...


She is doing well fingers crossed for the match she is playing.

How is your child with flu???

Sky on line said she slept well ate breakfast and watched DVDs last night so I hope that is a good sign but you never know what is going on inside her... At least she is safe.

atardi said...


That's good news about Shannon. But your are right we don't know what's going inside her. 2345 wrote a post that Shannon was taken by the brother of the mother of the partner of Shannon's mom. (Hope I have that right) In this case it's also someone the victim knows.

Daughter with flu is doing better. Couldn't go to the whole last week. Is coughing now but can eat again.

Phoned to hubby about indoor football. They won 2 and one all.
At 9.15 Dutch time they must play again.

hope4truth said...


I am glad she is feeling better it is awful when they are not well...

Your other daughter must be very fit to play so many games in one day...

I think the Police have now established that the man who had her is her stepfathers Uncle...


Penelope1 said...

RE: step father's uncle

I find this a bit freaky. My child psychiatrist friend says that in cases of sexual child abuse, its almost always the uncle.

The next typical step is that the child, having been lucky enough to have started treatment with the child psychiatrist, will one day find herself left alone with a strong female figure (usually the grandmother) who pulls her aside and says "how dare you bring shame to this family and tell all thes lies and make all this fuss! Your uncle is a good man!". Then the child stops talking, doesn't turn up to her appointments with the doctor, and a lot of good work gone to waste.

Social Services did well not to let her home in this case. She needs to talk to the police before being potentially disbelieved/bullied by her family into not saying nasty things about another family member.

Looks like the pros know what they are doing.

And the PJ and the British Police and British social workers also are professional. If we can see that there's somthing not right about the McCann set up the police can too. Let's hope they can prove it.

atardi said...


Yes, Shannon's stepfhater's uncle. I hope he didn't hurt her.

What do you think? The PJ arrived on monday in England. So they must have been questioning at least two or more of the Tapas group.

That's why we had the search and Gerry writing on his blog again.

I doubt if my oldest one is fit enough to play 2 games. But I think she (they) can rely on the endorphin because they won this afternoon also.

2345 said...


The People article is so amateurish that I think it was cobbled together by Gerry.

Hilarious - PJ missed blood ... the blood McCanns tried to scrub away. I've a picture in my mind's eye of PJ going around on all fours doing the work the cadavers were brought in to do.

hope4truth said...


That is terrible I cant imagine what I would do if one of my children told me that a memeber of our family was doing this but i know I would believe them (and then try and castrate the swine with a pair of rusty pliars)...

Social Services and the police did a very good job and like I said earlier no one (not even the parents yet) are jumping up and down screaming havent we/they suffered enough. Everyone is thinking of Shannon which is how it should be...

Your friends job must be rewarding but very very frustrating I dont envy her at all... x

hope4truth said...


I hope he diddnt hurt her as well the neighbours say they heard a child laughing (but I dont suppose that means much but it is hopeful)...

I dont know if the PJ are here or not I have heard they are then that they are not. All I hope is that when they are they get answers to all questions...

Hopefuly because as you say she won earlier it may help x

Penelope1 said...


My friend went into child psychiatry because she loves children, but to be honest she finds te work very difficult, very overwhelming (in terms of content). She takes it too seriously sometime, staying in worryng about her patients, wanting to be beside the phone in case they ring. She is single and quite lonely herself, I worry about her.

She is real doctor, like Docmac, and her patients respond to her and get better. (Sadly these days clinical practise doesn't count for much, she lost a top consultants posts as she wasn't "management material", doctors arent measured on how good they are at the actual job anymore). But she is lovely and does her work with a true sense of vocation. She is not into it for the status or money.

leigh3 said...


I think your child psychiatrist friend is absolutely right.

Furthermore, Shannon is the subject of a Child Protection Order for her own safety, and health, regardless of her family's wishes; their strengths and weaknesses.

Pity poor Madeleine, aged 3, was too young to have the same protection, imo.

'Uncle' can be a genetic relative; it can also be a social 'relative', known to the family.

Night all. Off to nod.

Zodiac said...


Just wanted to say thank you for your posts, I always like reading them. Thank you also for the snippets from G's blogs, I do not have the stomach to read that Website, and you are always very observant. Read you another day.

leigh3 said...

And finally...
Just read your last post Penelope1, and think it reveals reality.

IMO, Madeleine was a status symbol; proof of Gerry's virility, and Kate's ambition to be a mother, despite their physical incapacity (all their children are born by IVF).

Poor Maddie, a child born to elevate her parents' ego, imo.

hope4truth said...


It is a shame so many irelevent forms have to be filled in and boxes ticked these days which stops them getting on with their job.

I dont envy her but am glad their are people out there doing a worthwile and much needed job.


Anonymous said...

Your child pyschiatrist friend certainly sounds extremely commited.
Staying in beside the phone incase a client should ring.
Highly unlikely though that these children would have her personal tel no.
However, as you say "she takes it too seriously sometimes".

viv said...

Hi All, as the Article from the Daily Mail below confirms, Shannon was found at the home of her step-father's brother, 24 days after going missing and just a mile away. I am sorry to say this but I think big questions are going to be asked as to why such an obvious suspect did not get checked out much sooner than this.

I see the McCanns, as expected, jump on the bandwagon saying it proves children can go missing and be found alive. Different circumstances entirely. I think I read this man had his children taken from him, Shannon was unhappy at home - did he provide solace to her and himself, or was he grooming her for sexual abuse. Finding them both hidden in the base of the divan is bizarre. I applaud the police for not returning this child until such time as they found out exactly what happened.

We heard Madeleine was running away at bedtime. We hear Shannon wanted to run away and it would seem that she did. Two examples of very unhappy children but thank god a good outcome for Shannon, now.

Shannon's mother: 'I broke down and sobbed when I was finally reunited with my daughter'
Last updated at 19:19pm on 15th March 2008

The mother of nine-year-old Shannon Matthews said tonight she was overwhelmed at being reunited with her daughter, and "just couldn't stop crying, knowing she's back where she belongs".

"The police have helped a lot. We can't thank them enough."

Karen Matthews said the support from the local community had been "fantastic" and she thanked them for their letters and cards of hope.

"We're just happy to be a family again. That's all we've wanted - Shannon back and safe - now the family is safe again," she said.

The family now wanted time to come to terms with the events of the last three weeks, she added.

Scroll down for more...

Relief: Karen Matthews smiles with joy today after being reunited with her daughter Shannon

The youngster's father, Leon Rose, said: "I am buzzing over it - especially since Shannon has been found alive.

"I'm over the moon and I can't wait to see her. I'll grab hold of her and gave her a cuddle and tell her I love her."

Mr Rose reiterated Mrs Matthews' messages of thanks to the police and local community.

"All that counts is that Shannon has been found safe and well. I'm thankful that the nightmare is over - it's now a dream come true," he said.

Mrs Matthews and her partner Craig Meehan posed outside their home for photographers, smiling widely and exchanging a brief kiss before going back inside to join their family.

Shannon was today interviewed by detectives trying to piece together exactly what happened during her 24-day disappearance.

West Yorkshire Police said the schoolgirl was "on the road to recovery" and specially trained officers had spoken to her after she had eaten breakfast and played with a kitten.

Scroll down for more...

Alive: Shannon Matthews was found in a bed drawer while Paul Drake, the uncle of her stepfather Craig Meehan, has been arrested in connection with her disappearance

Shannon was discovered by police yesterday in the drawer of a divan bed at a flat less than one mile from her home in Dewsbury, West Yorks yesterday.

Michael Donovan, 39, formerly known as Paul Drake, was arrested on suspicion of Shannon's abduction at the property in Lidgate Gardens, in the Batley Carr area. He is the uncle of Shannon's stepfather, Craig Meehan.

Police today rebuffed criticism of the time it took them to find Shannon so close to her family home.

A local MEP demanded to know why Donovan had not been questioned sooner, saying that relatives were often involved in cases of this kind.

But police sources said there were "literally hundreds of people" in a "huge family network" that required a large amount of resources.

Scroll down for more ...


Revealed: The 'scruffy misfit' who lost his own two children
Shannon's dysfunctional family: A stepfather accused of violence and a mother at war with her parents
Shannon's dad: 'Getting my girl back is like winning the lottery'

After Shannon's disappearance on February 19, officers began interviewing members of her immediate family and then widened the inquiry to members of the extended family.

That led to dramatic scenes yesterday when police broke down the back door of Donovan's flat and emerged clutching Shannon.

It is understood that alleged tip-offs made to West Yorkshire Police have been overstated and did not directly point to the girl being hidden within the flat.

The charity Missing People claimed it contacted the police after receiving information suggesting that Shannon might be at Lidgate Gardens.

But officers only visited Donovan's home to question him because he was the uncle of Mr Meehan, the police source insisted.

Shannon was briefly re-united with her mother Karen Matthews, 32, and stepfather Mr Meehan, 22, last night before police imposed an Emergency Police Protection Order.

A force spokeswoman said today: "Shannon has had a comfortable and settled night and is starting on the road to recovery following her ordeal.

"She spent last night watching DVDs, has had breakfast this morning and has been playing with a kitten."

Mrs Matthews and Mr Meehan spent the night in a local hotel and had not returned to their home on Moorside Road by late afternoon today.

A police source suggested officers would remain with them while Shannon was being interviewed.

"We are trying to make sure, while Shannon is with us, that we have the family within our care," the source said.

The Westmoor Junior School pupil disappeared after going on a trip to a swimming baths on February 19.

Police launched a massive investigation involving more than 200 officers - said to be the biggest in the area since the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper.

Local residents rallied around Shannon's family and kept up the campaign to find her, many wearing specially made T-shirts and putting up 'Find Shannon' posters in their windows.

Paul Drake pictured with nephew Craig Meehan as a boy
A huge party was held at the community centre near Shannon's home just hours after she was discovered at Donovan's flat.

Edward McMillan-Scott, Conservative MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber, said statistics should have led police to check all family members more comprehensively.

He said: "In more than three out of four cases like this a family member is involved so a thorough search would have included the suspect in this case."

Mr McMillan-Scott said he would not criticise police without knowing the full facts about the case but had requested a meeting with officers in West Yorkshire.

He also called for a more wide-ranging review of Britain's procedures for dealing with missing children, insisting that a system such as the "Amber Alert" which is used in the United States, France and Belgium would have meant Shannon being found within hours.

The system sees information put out on television, radio stations and motorway signs as soon as children go missing.

More than 350 missing children in the US have been found alive since the system's introduction in 1998. Mr McMillan-Scott added: "I have no doubt at all that with a similar system Shannon would have been recovered within hours."

West Yorkshire police said Shannon had had a good night and was "bubbly and relaxed".

Officers recovered her from the flat after a neighbour reported to them that she had heard "little footsteps" on the floor above.

Shannon was brought out in the arms of a police officer who announced the hunt was over with the words: "We've got her!"

She was not wearing the clothes she had on when she vanished.

Police have already made her the subject of an Emergency Police Protection Order which means she can have no contact with her family until further investigations are carried out. She will also receive counselling.

A source said: "We need to start speaking to Shannon and find out what happened.

"It would be irresponsible to let her go back to her family just yet until we understand how and why she ended up where she did."

Following the news that Shannon was safe, her estranged father Leon Rose said he was "over the moon" and it was like "winning the lottery".

Her uncle Neil Hyett said: "I was the one who phoned her dad with the news. He couldn't believe it - like me he was nearly crying."

Almost everyone had believed Shannon, one of seven chidren, must be dead as it was nearly a month since she vanished without trace on February 19 on her way home from a school swimming lesson.

Scroll down for more...

Support: Mrs Matthews and Shannon's stepfather Craig Meehan exchange a kiss on the doorstep of their house

One of the biggest police investigations since the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper was launched but 300 police, divers, sniffer dogs, missing posters, leaflets, Tshirts, marches, vigils and TV appeals failed to find the freckle-faced schoolgirl.

Then at 12.30pm yesterday, in Lidgate Gardens, came the dramatic moment of breakthrough.

Mother-of-four Mandy Dixon, 37, said she was doing the washing up when she saw four police vans screech into the quiet road.

At first she thought it was a drugs raid as officers poured from the vehicles and smashed open the blue first-floor door to No 26.

"They ran in, they weren't wasting any time. Then they took a German Shepherd sniffer dog in.

"Minutes later, a plain-clothes officer came out of the house with Shannon clinging round his neck for dear life. She looked scared for her life."

Christopher Heaps, who lives at No. 4, said: "A policeman came out with a girl under his arms. I just said, 'Is that Shannon?' and he said, 'Yeah, this is Shannon'."

Officers said they had first visited the flat yesterday as part of their routine investigation.

They said they had not received a tip-off to identify Drake but were working through a list of extended relatives.

They knocked on his door and when there was no reply, they spoke to neighbours who reported hearing "footsteps" of a child in the flat above.

The detectives then called in a specialist search team, which included a dog trained to find people and human remains, and broke down the door.

A police source said: "Officers searched the house and found Shannon under the divan bed in a compartment underneath.

"Shannon was in one side and this man was in the other compartment.

"As you can imagine, Shannon is very quiet and isn't saying a great deal. She is tired and appears uninjured. She seems to be healthy."

Following the news that Shannon was safe, there were scenes of jubilation across Dewsbury.

Children returning from school to houses in Shannon's road were crying and hugging each other and joyfully throwing her "missing" posters up into the air.

Callie Brown, eight, who is in Shannon's class at West Moor juniors, said: "We all had to go into the hall for an assembly. I was crying my eyes out.

"I'm going to give 22 letters to her from her friends. I have missed her loads."

Julie Bushby, chairman of the local tenants' and residents' association, punched the air in joy when she heard the news and said: "I knew this day would come. It was just a matter of time.

"The community never lost hope and now we have woken up from our nightmare."

Victoria Saunders, 28, a cousin of Shannon's mother, said: "It's unbelievable. I'm in a state of shock. I'm so happy she's coming home and coming back to us. But I have to admit I thought she was dead."

The team rector of Dewsbury, Reverend Canon Kevin Partington, said: "The church has been open for prayer every day.

"We held a service outside the residents association centre a week ago and we have been doing what we can to support the local community."

Family friend Petra Blanksby added: "I can't believe it. I saw Karen and Craig leave the house with police.

"Craig had a big smile on his face and Karen just winked at me as she walked out of the door."

Buoyed by support from thousands of well-wishers, Mrs Matthews, 32, had always clung to hope her daughter was still alive.

Earlier this week she said she believed someone she knows had snatched her daughter to hurt her.

Family friend Petra Jamieson was angry that Shannon's mother and stepfather Craig Meehan, 22, had been under suspicion over her disappearance.

She said: "Karen and Craig are like any normal family. They get angry with their kids sometimes. That's just like the rest of us.

"But at least the bad stories kept it in the papers and now Shannon has been found. That's the main thing."

The parents of missing Madeleine McCann were among the first to welcome the news that Shannon was safe.

Kate and Gerry McCann's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said the development gave the couple hope, adding: "It proves that children can go missing for whatever reason and still be found alive."

Penelope1 said...


Excellent observation re: Maddie being a status symbol for the McCanns. You have it in one.

Status seems to be v important to them - possibly as they have both been elevated to a new status, and had to work hard to get there. The 500K house, the 4 whee drive, the tennis matches (not much of that played on the council estates where they grew up).

Class is behaviour not money. Gerry might be a doctor, but Shannon's Dad is a true gentlman. His kind and honest nature came across in his few words and many actions, and his love for this daughter shone when he was on the TV yesterday. He is a natural, honest person and a kind and loving father. Head and shoulders in stature above glib and arrogant Gerry.

The McCanns have spend 9 months whining whilst taking people's money and letting others do the searching. Leon Rose (Shannon's father) was doing, not talking, out searching for his daughter for almost four weeks.

Gerry technically is the heart expert, but he seems to have lost his own along the way.

viv said...

I wonder if that anon comment was written by Christobel/Muse/Supertroll/Assasin ad nauseum (brags about 19 on the Daily Express) who decided to crack a sick joke on Psychopops site about bones in the Dam of Arade, it made me feel very sick that anyone could find this funny:

Christabel said...
Hi Jane,
yes I did a you lol !

Makes you wonder if there was actually any damm search, get it ?

It was said M3 took some of the bones away, couldn't have been any meat on them, cos the PJ would have had em lol !
15 March 2008 19:45


Maybe this person could actually do with a psychiatrist as dedicated as your friend, Penelope.

Some of the bloggers on Psychopops site appear to be there, purely because they enjoy the sick and the macabre. They also enjoy reading The People and then adopting quotes from it as though they were truly based upon reality. These people live in a sick fantasy world IMO.

Penelope1 said...


She did give her work mobile to a suicidal teenager who had to stay at home as no psychiatric bed was available.

That night I had arranged a small party for a mutual friend. I tried to get her to come out and bring her mobile with her, but she said she didn't want to take a call in the pub, or even on the streeet outside, in case she rang.

Yes, she does take things very seriously. But her instincts are right. The teenager took an overdose the next day.

viv said...

Hiya Penelope

I have also given my home telephone number to divorce clients who were living in serious danger from domestic violence or suicidal. This is beyond the call of duty but shows a deep concern for human life and the safety of those we seek to protect.

In short something these people do not understand - empathy..

Penelope1 said...

Hi Viv,

You are a very caring person - that was v kind of you. I think a lot of people forget that doctors and lawyers are really working at the coal face of humanity.

It must have been tough for you, but it also must have been meaningful and worthwhile work.

hope4truth said...

Careful Viv

Or annon will be back saying you may get an MBE as aparently I may get one for delivering Easter Eggs yesterday...

Funny these annons probebly never done anything in their lives that was not for self promotion.

I did not buy all the eggs everyone really got into the idea of giving a little (they only cost £1.00 each as they were BOGOF at Sainsburys) we had a laugh as the pile grew and the people we gave them to were really happy as there are a lot of children there..

But to sad annon it means I want an MBE??? Which I would not get for doing so little or would not want as I dont want to meet the Queen...

Not really sure what they do in the real world but something fot nothing does not seem to be in their thinking...

viv said...

Hiya Hope

As you say, we just do things like that because we care about what happens to people, not for self-promotion.

With Kate and Gerry McCann it would seem, until such time as they get locked up at any rate, we have a future of them offering sickening comments of condolence every time some child gets killed, or indeed on the rare occasion one gets safely recovered. Given their own position and their oh so public declarations, we can view that in no other way than the most repulsive self-promotion. They demonstrated they did not even think their children were worth a baby-sitter but now profess to be so concerned about other peoples'? Charity begins at home, as they say and I am struggling to see what charity they offered to dear departed little Madeleine, whose body Gerry arrogantly challenged the PJ to find.

They are deeply insulting and offensive to normal people who have no agenda for being decent.

hope4truth said...

Hey Viv

How are you?

Some of their comments have been very strange when Kate said she wanted to work with children (would that not bring more heartache every time a child who looked like Madeleine and was the same age as she was when she went missing???)

And Gerry's comment of find the body etc was cold beyond words..

There must be profilers watching them maybe they will put it down to grief I am no expert I do not know but I know how much I love my children and would answere any question put to me and would not even think of hiring a lawyer (well before I was made a suspect anyway)....

Odd very Odd the whole thing..

Anonymous said...

Dear All
Maybe sad anon does not feel the need for all this self promotion.

I always feel the most genuine and caring of people empathise and do kindly deeds without having to continuosly talk about it. Infact it is such an everyday occurence, they do not see it as being remarkable.

True humaniturians would cringe at the thought of posting their good works on an internet blog.

viv said...

think your own style of humanity can be better found here:


where they just mentioned my parrot could do with a brick and me also

Yes, these people support Kate and Gerry McCann alright!

By the way the word is humanitarians, appreciate you would not be familiar with that let alone know how to spell it x

hope4truth said...


I stated yesterday I had, had a good day and mentioned the easter eggs while talking to other people on here If that makes me a bad person I can live with it. If it is the worse thing I ever do in my life then what a bitch I am..

Now sod off back to where you came from and praise two people who thought less of their 3 children than a night out with their friends (oh sorry another night out)...

Good works dropping a few eggs off you stupid prat that is nothing compared to what real people who work with charity and caring profesions do every day..

Go back and deface avitars with your filth and defend the defensless I pity you and the more you all post the longer I will stay pathetic bullies never win...

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I suggest you do not do as I have just done and read their latest comments. It will make you feel truly sick. Needless to say there is no hint of any normal discussion of the issues in this case - just the most sickening abuse of people who oppose them whilst they clock up their post tally discussing what should be unprintable filth that normal people would be deeply ashamed of.

Take care darling
luv vivx

hope4truth said...


I gave up reading over there the first few times I did (been back once since) really not intrested in them it was bad enough on the DX...

They must be bored to keep posting here and to hide behind Annon is pathetic....

I hope this ends soon x

hope4truth said...


Yes dear everything you say is true you believe that we all know how evil we are now to talk about Easter Eggs may I burn in hell..

Anonymous said...

Hope4you just wants to sugarcoat her poisonous comments and pretend she is so nice.

hope4truth said...


LOL you are right again I am a horrible person allways have been...

Hope that makes you feel better you have a nice evening now x

ratonthebeam said...

at least hope4you posts using her own name

notdoc said...

No nice people post here (except for sane anons)

viv said...

Hiya Hope

How wise of you not to read their sickening filth. Clearly they are bored. No one believes their "facts" from The People, possibly even lower than the News of the World even, so they resort to their usually Saturday night drinking session, writing filth to each other and dropping in here with more of the same. If they need to do this to entertain themselves it shows what a sad little coven they truly are.

Then they tell us they believe in their own truth. Well Kate and Gerry better continue to believe in themselves because I wonder what happened to those expensive London lawyers! Maybe they explained to them their legal position is hopeless in seeking to suggest they are innocent - their campaign has been at best, an amusing farce, and then Gerry got really angry. A scenario I find entirely credible!

hope4truth said...

Oh and it is hope 4 truth dont want to tar hope 4 you with the same brush I am sure she is lovely it is me that is evil

notdoc said...

What a strange name!
Hope you didn't get picked on at school.
Ratonthebeam, is that you real name too?
Poor things!

viv said...


It is a fact that seriously insane people have no insight into their illness. They think normal people are mad and there is nothing wrong with them. You do not see anything abnormal about your blog do you, but everyone else does. Ask yourself why and you may gain some insight.

ratonthebeam said...

You never could use punctuation properly, Rosiepoop. It's actually,

"no, nice people post here".

hope4truth said...


Hey if it printed in the People it must be true LOL

notdoc said...

Oh prat,
Want to argue?
Why start what you can't finish?

notdoc said...

I have checked your symptoms in wikipedia.
Just like docmac does.
You are very ill and need help.

hope4truth said...

Hello Notdoc

No did not get picked on at school thanks for caring but lots of girls are called Hope you know it really is not a big deal...

Shame you never made it as a Dr it must be awful not to do a job you really want to do..

viv said...


Punctuation, spelling, struggling with both, clearly:-)

Still at least help is at hand for it here..

Anonymous said...

Do not think Kate & Gerry need their lawyers. PJ obviously not coming.

ratonthebeam said...

Sorry Stinkerbell. They are already here.

notdoc said...

Ask docmac,
He is a hospital cleaner.
He can tell you all about his frustrations.

viv said...

Tut, tut, getting angry and aggressive again. Serious symptoms you display every night, wanting to fight people, threatening people, normal???

Pop off back to wiki!

notdoc said...

According to all you weirdos
They have being coming for the last 5 months.
Sorry if I don't believe you.

hope4truth said...


Makes no diffrence if the PJ come or not Madeleine will still be missing and she is the only thing that matters.

No court in the land can do anything to the parents that can be worse than what they are going through surley???

viv said...

Hiya ROB

Did the PJ arrive on the plane from Faro that landed at Birmingham at 9.30 last Sunday night?

The timing would seem to fit with Det Super Prior returning from Faro the previous Wednesday.

BTW Great to hear from you!

notdoc said...

Nobody is threatening you Viv,
Getting paranoid again?
I can check on wiki for you if you want.

ratonthebeam said...

Sorry I called you Stinkerbell. You are quite clearly not that intelligent. You must be Mark13. Does your mum know you have helped yourself to her can of White Lightening from the fridge?

Anonymous said...

Alreay here? Well I know for a FACT they are not.
But........ if it is giving you some excitement thinking they are,
so be it.

ratonthebeam said...


So I believe, yes.

Why do you think Pinko has been so quiet lately?

notdoc said...

Why do you hate Gerry so much prat?
Is it because he did so much better than you?
Envy is not a nice trait to have

viv said...

You cannot speak without being abusive and threatening or just downright childish - Docmac is a hospital cleaner - are you still at school!

Want to argue?
Why start what you can't finish?

Believe it or not this is threatening! Sick people go around threatening others. Just like Clarence Mitchell and the McCanns have been threatening to sue people since last August, but still never have! Empty threats, sad little losers and bullies who are going to finish up where they belong - caged.

notdoc said...

Now now,
Who is being threatening?
Not me.

ratonthebeam said...

Not only have I "done" better than Gerry, as clearly that bothers YOU, but I have never lost any children by leaving them on their own to go out on the piss.

Anonymous said...

They hate Kate & Gery so much becuase they are articulate and professional. Oh and apparently becuase as these antis keep quoting parrot (oops sorry about the pun) fashion they have a nice house, good income and a 4x4.

Nevermind that they have lost a daughter, are being accused of harming her and insane people write dreadful unfounded accusations about them on the internet.

notdoc said...

Maybe if you had done better you wouldn't be so bitter and twisted.

Gloating because someone else has lost a child is not a nice trait either.

I bet he wouldn't be doing that to you.

Goodnight, I won't be posting again here tonight.

Anonymous said...

Dont go Notdoc....you speak so much sense.

hope4truth said...

Oh what a shame

notdoc said...

thank you anon,
but I don't want to give this vile blog any more oxygen.
If these people had better lives they wouldnt be sitting in front of a computer doing this.
It has nothing to do with justice for maddie.
Envy, and rage are the most likely reasons

viv said...

Hiya ROB

Well of course we are jealous of what Gerry managed to achieve for himself - investigated by two police forces in different jurisdictions for homicide of his child and disposing of her body.

Only a very sick person could suggest we may be jealous of such an accolade!

Personally I like my children all alive, fit and well. Myself I prefer no police investigations, but hey Gerry whatever floats your boat - we are certainly not talking normal here are we!

Anon, would you also like to become rich and famous because you killed your child? Apparently the answer must be yes - go and get some help PLEASE!

A polite warning however, as the pics on the left of Gerry demonstrate, you may be very happy when you think you are going to get away with, but months later, when you know you are not, you will go into a complete rage - not good for the mental or physical health, I think you will find. Those stress hormones when prolonged can do a lot of damage. This is a prolonged investigation for the McCanns - just what they deserve!

ratonthebeam said...

Good. Now why don't you just bugger off and try and take better care of the two children you DO have left?

notdoc said...

I don't know why you are jealous, but you are, and it is very sick.
As far as I'm concerned you can carry on gloating, it shows off your true colours.


viv said...


Yes they can play at being nice mums and dads to the remaining two for at least another couple of months, I reckon.

Then the SSD and the Police will take over and hopefully find these two little darlings some genuine carers within the family who will keep them ALIVE.

hope4truth said...

Rat and Viv

Glad they have gone at least they dont know the address for our real blog imagine if they could post on there (I dont think some of the members could take it)...

Stay here for now hey xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hope

Unfortunately this thing has not gone. It has been building itself up into a frenzy all night on its own little blog and in spite of keep promising us it hates this blog and will not post here, just cannot manage to stay away.

It continues to lurk like some demented praying mantis, furious..and determined to change our minds about it. What a sick way of going about it.

Tell you this much Gerry, my mind has been made up for several months, just like the Police in two separate jurisdictions - you are a spent force. Show a little dignity and shut up!

hope4truth said...


Be kind they have no where to post for a good argument anymore now the DX has removed atricles...

It is nice for them to be able to tell us how nasty and evil self serving we are think of it as care in cyber space...

I really cant believe Gerry would post here??? Then a lot of what has gone on has been far fetched so what do I know???

I am enjoying being evil should have let the real me out years ago pretending to be nice silly me...

I have mailed you x

ratonthebeam said...

Lets see - if I am so bitter, twisted, jealous and gloating, why the hell should that bother YOU?

You don't know me. You don't know how much I earn, what car I drive, what house I live in or how far I have come in life.

So how do you know that Gerry has "done" better than me? Or is that another of your FACTS?

Enjoy it while you can. She who laughs the last, laughs the longest. And I bet the PJ will be laughing pretty hard, pretty soon, and so will I.

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I think I have demonstrated my compassionate side tonight by accepting they miss being abusive to us on the Daily Express.

So, tonight, just for a special treat, I did not delete their posts. Did they develope their arguments, or did they get a personality transplant and learn to be nice in the meantime. The above evidence would tend to suggest otherwise.

We get the same definitive statements about their version of the facts - Gerry is doing better than all of us, and yet they do not even know us. But you would think they could at least have the wit to suss out we are not prime suspects for killing our child!

They even continue to rant and rave about my parrot - just how sad could they be. We know why they are so sad. No one really believes what they can read in last August's The People! Absolutely desperate, personality disordered and pathetic.

In the fullness of time, their evil little blog page will just float into cyberspace - now that is a fact we can truly believe. Why, because Metodo 3 are not investigating the McCanns. Dr Paul Rebelo and Det Superintendent Prior are - two very senior cops in two separate jurisdictions, pooling their resources against these two and their sick little friends to put them where they belong.


atardi said...

Hi Hope4truth,

Had one of my best friends here tonight at 10.30. It wasn't planned.

The team didn't make it tonight. They became fifth or fourth. Tomorrow we will know everything about the tournement.

If you want to follow the team I will post the thread to Viv. And I hope she will post it to you.

Anonymous said...

Alsabela has just called Psychopops and lot "retired highway whores".

viv said...

My compliments to the Lady Alsabella. I love her dearly.

Like me, she stands firm in her cause of Justice for Maddie and gives us great input from Portugal.

Anonymous said...

Rat is is an assumption, you come across as bitter and jealous every time you write, so I am assuming all is not well with you personally. That actually goes for the majority of posters on this site. Hence the FACT you are all getting some form of excitement posting your outragous accusations.
Pretending you want Justice for Madeleine. It is just an excuse for you all to vent your anger about the injustice in your own lives.

ratonthebeam said...

It's already happening, Viv. They scare new people away, so it's always the same tired old hacks that post there. Now I think that this paid poster thing might work like Amway, you have to recruit new people in to make your money, in which case they can't be making that much. Quite a few seem to have dropped out already - where's Maureen gone, for example? Mind you, the boss man has got a new 4x4 out of it....

Anyway, it's just so bloody predicatable. Anyone reading the posts can make up their own minds who are the educated, sensible, rational debaters, and who are the sad losers that cannot rise above name-calling, abuse and sad attempts to personally discredit other posters.

What is the scariest part is they actually seem to believe that they can shut people up by either calling them names, abusing them or threatening them! All that does is make people even more determined to have their say, they have had 10 months to figure that one out now,and still the penny hasn't dropped....

It's also a proven fact that many of the unbalanced people who harm other people, started out on animals first... and that the reverse is also true, if you have compassion for animals then that extends to other humans....

...and all I see are the trolls verbally abusing your poor parrot!

hope4truth said...


Yes as I live in a cardboard box and can only post using an old laptop donated by the Sally Army by picking up a stray wireless conection and had to invent my family and my charity easter egg drive I think they have me sussed (they even know I am not nice how will I sleep now???)...

Of course I always wanted to be a Dr but only got as far as being a first aider at the burger bar where I work (well I say first aider I am in charge of the blue plasters) and have two stars on my name badge...

They are strange no name just insults and put downs personal ones what do they hope to achieve do they really think that it gets to any of us?

I am off to bed my pretend Husband has just come home and is very happy (well to be honest merry) so I will no doubt be in charge of breakfast in the morning...

See you tomorrow xxx

atardi said...


Sleep well.

ratonthebeam said...

Really anonymous. It never occurred to you that YOU might be reading it wrong?

No, of course it didn't. Because you, like your precious McCanns, don't make mistakes. It's always everybody else who is in the wrong.

You can assume anything you like about me. But an assumption is not a fact. So kindly don't state that itis. Because in this case, you're wayyyyyy off.

hope4truth said...


Oh what a shame she did well though... Yes it would be good to see where they are I am sure Viv will pass it on to me that would be great...

It is nice when people turn up unexpectadly...

One of my friends comes over and we have a quick chat and then realise that a few hours have gone by...

Speak to you tomorrow xxx

Anonymous said...

You know alot about Amway Rat, is that the secret of your "sucess" LOL.

There you go, on about the 4x4 again. Why does it matter so much to you?

Really you do not see the irony in your saying "What is the scariest part is they actually seem to believe that they can shut people up by either calling them names, abusing them or threatening them!"

I see a pattern of behaviour here from you antis...It is called self-deception.

hope4truth said...


You are so funny do you really belive we are all jealous of two people who are in the situation they are in???

I would actually hate to be a Dr it is a very hard and demanding job but I admire anyone that does this as a Job my own Dr is lovely and works really hard....

As for me I have a job I love and a very happy life you can tell me I am nasty unhappy bitter jealous but it wont make it true...

I actually do feel sorry for you I dont think you really know what to believe about anything so to make yourself feel better you throw funny insults???

ratonthebeam said...

Actually I paid for my 4x4 with my own earnings. I didn't go round little old ladies and kids with a begging bowl.

Anonymous said...

What PROOF do you have that Gerry did not pay for his 4x4 from his own earnings....None.

viv said...

Hiya ROB

The problem is they do not bother to try and explain why the McCanns are innocent, they merely repeat rubbish about the PJ from last August's The People, over and over again.

When not doing that, they do not debate the points we make. Not at all, they merely act like a bunch of 12 year old school bullies attacking posters both here and on Alsabella's blog personally and also seeking to attack the blog itself.

Time and time again, they seek to explain to me, a trained lawyer, that I am libelling the McCanns. But these people have demonstrated the cannot even spell the word properly and simply have no understanding whatsoeverr of how complex law is.

They do not have the wit to understand that libel is a law designed to protect a person's good reputation from malicious falsehood. By emphasising the facts about this couple's behaviour and the police case against them there is nothing malicious or false about anything we say.

If someone feels their reputation has been damaged, then the law says they must act quickly to prevent the damage to their reputation continuing. The law has, since 1996, I think, provided that you only have one year to institute proceedings against someone who has defamed you. It is stressed that time is of the essence, you must act very quickly if you genuinely wish to suggest your reputation has been or is being damaged.

This is generally done by issuing an immediate injuction seeking retraction and an apology for the offending article and banning any further similar publication.

Last August the McCanns claimed that a Portuguese newspaper had defamed them by printing the PJ thought they had killed Madeleine and disposed of her body. They indicated that proceedings had been started against this newspaper. They have not proceeded with the action because what the newspaper printed was true.

The Daily Express have been printing articles about the McCanns since May 2007. ON alternate days those articles have given the Police version, rather than the McCann version. This was fair and balanced by printing also what Clarence Mitchell wished to have printed.

At no stage did the McCanns complain immediately they were being libelled as they should have done to protect their reputation. Instead, they wait until these articles have been appearing for a full 10 months and then start demanding the most incredible £4M in damages. Damages in the UK are conservative and meant to compensate the damage caused to the person's reputation. If you had a poor reputation in the first place, then it cannot be damaged. The main aim of the proceedings is to stop further damage, not demand massive damages.

The McCanns were casting around or further monies - they are demanding a settlement from the Daily Express but there is no injunction to protect their reputation or proceedings issued. They are merely demanding money and a vast amount too. They fool no one. They made a vast amount of money in the name of their own daughter who they killed and now they are casting around to see where else they can get some from. They are despicable and cannot sue anyone for libel because we speak the truth about them.

atardi said...


I don't know know nothing about blogging. I posted to you but you never received it. What is your e-mail address?

ratonthebeam said...

I have PROOF that he didn't even pay his own mortgage for two months.

Anonymous said...

They fool no one. They made a vast amount of money in the name of their own daughter who they killed and now they are casting around to see where else they can get some from. They are despicable and cannot sue anyone for libel because we speak the truth about them."

And you say there is nothing malicious or false about this statement. Where is your PROOF to substantiate this...None. Only heresay, gossip and conjecture.

viv said...

Again, Anon, you are so incredibly ignorant you cannot even spell hearsay!

The People consists of hearsay, gossip and conjecture. The Police case against the McCanns and the evidence against them is fact.

You prefer to accept what The People says, I prefer to accept what The Police say. I rest my case:-)

Anonymous said...

So what did not pay his mortgage for two months......have some compassion, the man was not working because his little daughter was missing.

ratonthebeam said...

Well, whose fault was that?

viv said...


Please do not repeat my posts "parrot fashion". I make no apology for the pun. What ROB stated is indeed correct. It is a known fact that psychopaths are very cruel to animals.

It is boring and troublesome to intelligent people who can read what has already been posted. But there again, you are boring and troublesome!

atardi said...


You think it's possible to give the football site or my e-mail adress to hope4truth?

viv said...

The things is Anon, why should the general public be paying for the McCanns mortgage or other items they wish to fritter the money away on.

Shannon's parents are very poor, I imagine from what I can see. Do they have a kitty from the public to fritter on themselves or pay their rent with? I think not!

Middle class couples generally pride themselves on being self-sufficient, not relying on hand outs. All this couple ever do is demand hand-outs. When did they ever spend any of their own cash or even time, looking for Madeleine. As Kate admitted in the original interview with Jane Hill, they did not get around to doing that. That left it to the police and other holiday makers who no doubt feel their holiday was quite simply ruined by the McCanns. Something they probably saved really hard for and looked forward to. Since when did the McCanns care about how many lives they touched with their evil and ruined?

viv said...

Sorry Hope/Atardi

I am going to check my mail but it may take me a few mins as there is usually a heck of a lot!

atardi said...


What picture did you see with your daughters.

People might forget there are genuine people posting here. And bable Fish can't help me.

Anonymous said...

The McCanns didn't force anybody to give them money.

viv said...

Hiya Atardi

I checked my emails and have one from Hope which I answered but not from you.

If you want your email passed on and Hope is OK both let me know and tell me you mailed:


viv said...


So you don't think they are trying to force the Daily Express to give them a huge amount of money?

People gave to the Find Madeleine Fund because they thought she could be found. Gerry confirmed that was not possible when he challenged the PJ to find the body. The McCanns then ignored all letters from people demanding their money back. That was fraud and deception. Serious offences. Trying to demand a settlement from the Daily Express is just like blackmail and doing nothing at all to protect their reputation - quite the opposite - it increases dramatically their reputation for being money grabbing, dishonest liars who are prepared to cash in the name of their own little girl, who they killed. They will go down in criminal history for that and for trying to deny there was anything illegal or immoral about their appalling conduct.

You make decent people feel very sick indeed with your perverted claims.

Anonymous said...

I sincerely hope the daily express gets sued and loses, giving them a lot of money. They deserve it.

Firstly for cashing in by using her disappearance to sell more papers by printing rubbish.

Secondly, for giving morons like you a voice.

Hopefully with all that money they will be able to carry on searching for their daughter.

viv said...

You are clearly in the minority for thinking the McCanns deserve a lot of money for killing their daughter.

I agree the Daily Express did print a lot of rubbish, every other day, when they printed the Clarence Mitchell version, rather than the official police version. But hey ho they were trying to be fair.

Calling me a moron is just abusive and clearly, false. When people have to resort to words like "moron" and ~"rubbish". The clearly cannot think of anything better to say. Hardly surprising from one who seeks to explain hearsay rules to me but cannot even spell it, let alone understand the law of evidence.

The PJ and British Police have searched for Madeleine, as Gerry confirmed when he stated "well find the body and prove we killed her", her poor little body is not available to be found.

From the very outset, the McCanns could not be bothered to search for their daughter, they knew they was a waste of their time. They got on with their holiday activities instead. They are repulsive.

Good Night x

Anonymous said...

you asked do we know you

what you do

where you are

and your workmates# car reg the lot
see you soon rotb

Paul said...


Do you have a photo of Gerry in a kilt next to your bed and do you realise you start to die the moment you're born?

ratonthebeam said...

I don't think so. Yo don't scare me. And trying these cheap stunts just proves how desparate you are becoming.

hope4truth said...

Good Mornign Rat

Well Annon certainly got his her knickers in a twist diddnt they?

Reminds me of a rant by a nasty woman on the DX not the one that demanded to know where you live but another one who did the same thing to another poster and decided that they were not British when they refused to tell the old bat...

Take care xxx

lizzy said...

Hi Rat/Hope
Have just been reading some of last nights posts by anon, Gerry and Kate articulate? They obviously didn't hear Kate being interviewed on Panorama, I thought she came across as inarticulate, she sounded really stupid and it was hard to believe she was a Doctor. I also find it crazy to believe that anybody would be jealous of the Mccanns who are suspects in the disappearance of their daughter.They are really strange people to think these things.Also Viv's point that pyschopaths are cruel to animals is true, my mum worked in Mental Health for years and has read many case histories,wthout exception they all started their killing sprees by first killing and torturing animals when young children. I think the anons who come on this blog are the same nasty pieces of work from the DE,some are clearly unbalanced. Lizzy

Paul said...


Imagine an eggtimer with 80 years of sand in it and the moment you're born, someone turns it upside down.

I bet you have as much sand in the top as you have in the bottom but the funny thing is as you read this the sand continues to pour.

Kate & Gerry McCann are in the same boat, 40 years old and still the sand flows.

2345 said...


There's proof that Gerry was, apparently, so cash strapped he raided the Fund to pay his mortgage. Apparently not, he had ample funds for a new 4 X 4.

By the way, Gerry had Fund clauses altered after he dipped his hand in the till, so to speak. There was no provision for his household expenses; the public donated on the understanding it would asssist a search for a 'live' child. After he was caught taking money illegally, a clause was inserted to cover his impropriety.

hope4truth said...

Morning Lizzy

Yes they are definatly left over (like us lol) from the DX..

Do they really belive if they say I am not nice it makes it true (and to be honest does my personality matter that much) after reading some of their hate filled posts and attacks it is obvious that most of them are bitter and twisted (and cowards re the Anon)...

I missed the cruel to animals bit what does that relate to???

Hope you have a lovely Sunday I am sat alone (Husband had a night out last night and is still asleep so I got up to make breakfast and both girls still sound asleep) so I am sat alone eating far to much toast but as it is pouring am not going anywhere and it is nice to have a lazy Sunday.... xxx

hope4truth said...

Good Mornign Paul

What a depressing thought, true but depressing LOL

My egg timer must be nearly half empty now as well as I am 37 but hey ho the last 37 years seem like forever so I have a long way to go (I HOPE!!!)...

Have a nice day...

2345 said...

The McCanns Marriage:

Holy wedlock has become unholy deadlock 'til death they do part.

Paul said...

Next time you contibute a fiver to the McCann Mortgage Protection Fund tie it to a boomerang.

hope4truth said...

Morning 2345

I got bored with anon last night but when they said that Gerry could buy what he wanted re the 4x4 as it was his money and then went on to say he should have used the fund for the mortgage as he was off work and broke I realised it was unfair to have a go at such a thick idiot....

I actually did not have a problem with them using the fund for mortgage payments as the fund had been set up to help them out while they were in PDL but I would not have done so in their situation can you imagine the bad press a Building Society would get if they tried to make a fuss about 2 missing payments with Madeleine missing??? Then I did not donate to the fund so it was not my money they were spending...

Have a nice Sunday x

2345 said...


It would be interesting to know Kate's articulative abilities prior to the tragedy. She wasn't frightened to open her mouth then was she?

IMHO opinion we're seeing the effects of Gerry's takeover of Kate's mind and voice. She's not allowed to think or speak for herself in public - as John Lennon said - 'one thing you can't hide is when you're crippled inside'.

Kate must have access to best counsellors available to help her deal with various stages of loss/grief. The longer the case continues, the worse she's become.
IMHO Gerry and sinister secrets are the cause of her ineloquence.
She's allowed Gerry to tke over her mind and mouth,

Paul said...


What day of the week do you have Sunday lunch?........Do you intend to purchase a McCann Tapas Bar on Wheels or an Inflatable Confession Box?......the latest thing for high flying Catholics on the move.

2345 said...


McCanns suing DE - another one of Clarrie's 'red herrings'. CM doesn't want DE press coverage of the good guys - the Police, their progress etc. He's ever so devious - can't believe a word he says.

Still waiting for a photo of the 100's of cards and pressies sent to Maddie at Xmas.

Everything we're told by McCann mechanics is untrue ... as guaranteed and reliable as the cadavers.

Penelope1 said...

Hi Annonymous,

Just logged in and have seen your vitriolic posts.

Whoever you are, you are displaying characteristics of

- anger
- arrogance
- competitiveness
- holding social status in high regard (who's doing better than whom in jobs cars etc)
- extreme defence of the McCanns

So, Gerry, you have exposed yourself yet again!

If you are so innocent, why are you not at peace with yourself?

You are angry, not because your daughter is missing, but because your grandoise scheme for covering her demise is now falling apart...

Any normal person 10 months after their daughter's disappearance would have reached the sadness/acceptance stage.

Is you are so convince she's alive, why aren't you out there looking for her?

It is very clear with the "fund" that you are your battered wife have spent more time and energy looking for MONEY and FAME rather than your daughter.

2345 said...


It's the arrogance and corrupt thinking behind the McCanns which is so abhorrent. They are out and out liars. They said they were on unpaid sick leave when they raided the Fund. No such thing in NHS; they were both entitled to six months fully paid sick leave, especially in their 'apparent' circumstances. Thereafter, it becomes proportionate. They had exactly the same income as when they were working - funded by us taxpayers, plus the cost of locum cover.

Money was definitely Gerry's prime concern prior to and after the tragedy. He had absolutely no conscience about dipping his hand in the Fund and lying about why he did it. Whilst he likes to see himself as 'high status' he's 'low life' - his proved it himself.

2345 said...


Sorry, forgot to wish you an enjoyable Sunday - grey and wet here.

2345 said...


I'm not taking calrries bait on McCanns suing DE; I see it as another predictable ploy. His focus, i'm sure, is to thwart press coverage of Police progress.

Given the evidence held by Leicester Police (as well as PJ), DE have printed nothing warranting a case of libel/slander. To the contrary, they've printed each and every 'report' sent in by illegal underworld operators Metado 3 who have now been officially reported of paying 'false' witnesses.

By comparison, the police aspect has received very little space in DE.

We're still being treated like a shedload of mushrooms ... Cm definitely wants the Police perspective out of press and out of mind.
by false witnesses

isis said...

Morning 2345, Clarence wont be suing anyone, he would do well to remember that before opening his gob to change feet that his 2 clients are in the very precarious situation of being 2 of 3 suspects in their daughters disappearance. Anyway he has numerous publications and media outlets in spain , portugal and germany to start with . Honestly the man is a laugh.

hope4truth said...

Hello 2345

There have been some strange human behaviour in this horible mess that is for sure...

It is pouring here and looks like it is in for the day... I dont have to be anywhere so going to enjoy doing nothing (will probebly move my daughters room around as well as she has a new bed and it dose not look right where we have put it) apart from that lots of sweets and Columbo xxx

hope4truth said...


Glad to see you the below comment you left on the DX re Shannon...

"All little children should be afforded the right to put a happy little head on a pillow at night and have worry free sweet dreams. This is the right of every child."

Exactly right children deserve just that and lots of love well said xxx

Paul said...

Wet Sunday.......and the leg of lamb has just walked out the room..........still tomorrow is Monday..........Monday the best day of the week because it's the furthest day from the next one.

isis said...

Morning Hope, and how true it is. The little children of this world should be cherished and loved beyond reason. Amazing that you have to have a licence to own a dog....

Paul said...


Did you know that News at Ten is on at 11 o'clock in Amsterdam?

hope4truth said...


Yes any idiot can have a child and we all make mistakes and learn from them but to leave a chid alone or put a Man in front of their childs welfare (or anything for that matter) is not a mistake it is a choice and is wrong...

Have a nice day off to make bacon sandwiches for my non veggie daughter and marmite on toast for my veggie one xxxx

Paul said...

I can smell the bacon sandwiches from here.......in Kuwait they have Turkey bacon.......and Pork scratchings are replaced by Chicken itchings......have you ever seen a chicken itch?......not a pleasent sight but to stay on-topic, what do sardine sandwhiches taste like behind bars?

hope4truth said...


I can smell them to and as a vegie myslef the smell of bacon allways makes me hungry...

When we were in Malaysia they had beef bacon it looked horrid...

I would imagine sardine sandwiches anywhre would taste terrible never did like fish...

Paul said...


"What is wrong with my life that I must get drunk every night"....Fine Young Cannibals.

But I'm a liar because in Kuwait it is illegal to consume alcohol.......so don't believe everything you read.....just like good old Gerry......telling lies about taking a lie detector test is the surest way to fail it.

Paul said...


The call for prayers has just rung out.......I'm in to Camel racing in a big way.......but no betting offices.......still its a nice 34 degrees C.....and Alcohol Anonymous is meeting tonight......only two members.....I think its Gerry & Kate because they come with fourteen bottles of Virgin wine.

Paul said...


Did you know that Pyramid selling is still big business in the Middle-East.........ever tried selling a time-share Pyramid to an Egyptian?

Anyway I'm off for the day (Sunday is a normal working day) but tonight I will raise a glass of diet 7-up with ice and lemon to all of you out there that don't believe in everything that Double-Glazing salesmen tell you.

hope4truth said...


Camel racing thats an intresting pass time..

AA meetings in Kuwait I guess even in countrys you cant buy alcohol alcoholics are still in recovery and need a meeting???

ratonthebeam said...

I would have thought that the camel usually wins?

viv said...

Hiya all

and welcome new poster Paul.

I agree Gerry has taken over Kate's thinking and behaviour for her and this does explain the distinct lack of articulate speech we have seen from her.

As a qualified GP, and someone who was able to go on the binge at Uni, but still pass her exams, there surely must have been a time when she could present in a better light... where she did not appear to be completely thick.

Thanks for a good post again Penelope analysing the behaviour demonstrated on here. When all else fails these people resort to threats...to sue..we know where you live. One of them was on here a few nights back repeatedly insisting I do not have a mortgage apparently..

The cruelty to animals bit came up again because I had been on Psychopops webpage last night and they were laughing about how my parrot, apparently, needs a brick. They were also comparing us to shit in the bottom of its cage. This does demonstrate people with a depraved mind. Maybe some of these people are not connected to the McCanns at all - they are just like minded psychopaths, who have their way of thinking?

Re mortgage payments and sick pay. In the NHS the McCanns would have been entitled to a short period of paid dependancy leave of about 2 weeks. After that the only way they could have continued to be in receipt of full sick pay would be by supplying sick notes. Trouble is, can you imagine Gerry allowing Kate to go to the doctors, explain how ill she was feeling, and produce a sick note? Therefore the McCanns would have been on unpaid leave of absence.

I have previously pointed out that part of the modus operandi of someone like Gerry McCann is to be dishonest and perpetuate fraud. We got to find out what he was really like for sure when we heard about those mortgage payments. Remember, if they had submitted sick notes for, say, stress or depression, they could have received 6 months full pay and then 6 months half pay. So no need to defraud the find maddie fund. It was never the find maddie fund. He stated in May it bought them a team of lawyers. It was always the defend Kate and Gerry Fund.

viv said...

Mobile Phone Forensics
Disklabs are able to assist the case preparation of either the prosecution or defence for either criminal or civil proceedings by the evaluation of the Phone /Sim. Our experts are able to forensically acquire saved and deleted data through the use of approved methods of the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO). Evidence can be gathered from mobile phones, Sim and memory cards. Mobile phone forensics is a relatively new science and our experts are at the forefront of this technology. Disklabs is the only company able to recover and analyse data from physically damaged handsets.There is a wealth of information contained on a SIM that include when collected and evaluated in the appropriate manner will yield

Stored telephone numbers/contacts;
Listings of ‘Last Dialed Numbers’;
Text messages received, sent, drafted or deleted;
General location information from last use;
References to overseas network providers that have been used.

So, I would be correct in thinking PJ do indeed know every single person Gerry ever dialled and every single text sent and received. No matter if he wiped them off. That must have provided PJ/Leics Police with an awful lot of useful leads!

Overseas network information as well - I reckon some of his calls have been truly international, including to his friends in Holland etc. that they just had to visit on their European tour whilst leaving the twins - must have been for an important reason. Get those Maddie sightings rolling...

Holly said...

They were also comparing us to shit in the bottom of its cage. This does demonstrate people with a depraved mind.

Taken out of all context as usual. You of all people have no right to call anyone depraved. Noone is less normal than you.

viv said...

Ah so context is important in likening people to shit in the bottom of a parrot cage? Really..the obsession with my parrot in itself, is hardly normal!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
viv said...

I suggest you save your concern for your heroes and nominees for Parent of the Year Award:

Kate and Gerry McCann

Sadly for them, Portuguese and British Police do not find them worthy recipients, and normal members of the public entirely agree..

2345 said...


NHS explanation I received was different. It's almost certain Kate & Gerry's superiors considered either unfit to practice safely until their state of distress was at an end. NHS look after employees well and would have arranged sick cover with full financial entitlements.
Sick notes covering their state of anxiety would only reflect normal distress in disastrous circumstances, as opposed to depressed/mentally ill McCanns.

They both qualified for full 'sickness' entitlement in extraordinary circumstances and are not likely to have refused it !!

The level of protection afforded Gerry in particular by NHS is shown by the fact that was not suspended until outcome of the trial. He would still have been paid if he had.

I often wonder what Leicester Police think about this. They made FSS information public knowledge; the authorities are aware of it, yet as one of the prime suspects in his daughter's death and disappearance wasn't suspended by NHS.

2345 said...


It's not personal, they're doing the job they're paid to do; attack and disrupt. The Police have had 10 months of it.

2345 said...


Mobile Phone Forensics - very interesting, thanks. This technology blew Huntley's alibi out of the water, if memory serves me right. I expect there's been technological advances in phone forensics and FSS procedures since this case.

ratonthebeam said...

Holly, what is your opinion of posters who make personal threats to others?

Genuine question.

supertroll said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
supertroll said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ratonthebeam said...


You have been told this SEVERAL TIMES.

What is it about the above statement that you DON'T UNDERSTAND???

viv said...

Hi 2345

I have to disagree with you on the NHS sickness scheme. It is clear and stricly applied - no sick notes, no sick pay!

Gerry McCann would not have allowed Kate to claim sickness benefit in this way - she had to give her job up instead and live off the fund for the loss of her quite substantial wages. This would have been a dire loss for a couple who have a £2000 per month mortgage. Trying to return to work as a locum for a small ~GP surgery in all the circumstances would not doubt have been impossible anyway!

ROB - good question, but somehow I dont think you will get an answer! They run a million miles from a serious question, as we know!

hope4truth said...

Oh my good god these Pro idiots are concerend about your parrot as from one photo of her on a perch they are concerend about her living conditions...

It is a bloody shame they do not feel concerned that 3 children (plus the others in that holiday group) were left alone night after night so the parents could go to the Bar as they were so in to one another...

Get a grip guys you are showing yourselves as the nasty bullys you are nothing to say so lets pick on the parrot picture LOL

viv said...

Sorry ROB but Supertroll is permanently barred from this site as she knows full well.

supertroll said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ratonthebeam said...

It's just as well, Viv. The woman is bloody obsessed. She keeps saying I have been threatening her, and I never, ever did. But she has gotten it into her thick skull that it was me, and nothing but nothing is going to shift that idea.

What I WILL say is if that it continues, I WILL be making threats, and they won't be empty ones either. They will be backed up with a damn good solicitor and believe me, I know all about Internet law as I teach it.

viv said...

Issuing yet another threat:

dont complain that you wern't warned!

viv said...

Hiya ROB

The reason this sick creature is permanently barred is because she has posted seriously sick abuse on this site and runs a site where she repeatedly writes libel about me and others.

As you say this is actionable and she had better take care of her conduct and mental health.

supertroll said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ratonthebeam said...

What phrase? You are sick!

viv said...

Troll - you appear to suffer from obssessive personality disorder and entertain paranoid delusions from a persual of your site.

You desperately need help.

There is no point you posting on this site, no matter how obsessed with me and others you are, you know what will happen.

You are a sick stalker and you need help.

hope4truth said...

Hello ALL

Well they must be fed up with each other if they have to keep comming here makes no odds which one posts they all sound bitter & twisted...

I have been looking through the papers on line Shannon was either abducted, ran away or it was a plan to cash in by someone close to her???

At least she is with Social Services until they know if it is safe for her to return home or not.

Poor little girl I do hope she is ok...

viv said...

Hiya Hope

My own view is that this little girl ran away and was encouraged to do so by this sick man who harboured her for 24 days. He is in serious trouble!

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

You could be right grooming of children by Peadophiles is becoming a major problem these people promise them the earth and encourage them to meet them...

I am sure she will get all the support she needs now and if her family need support I hope they get help as well...

viv said...

Hiya Hope

Yes unfortunately, it is all too common for very inadequate men to groom a young girl as their "partner" who they can easily control. I am not saying this is the situation with Shannon but clearly a distinct possibility. In the eyes of the law Shannon would not be able to freely give consent to being kidnapped and falsely imprisoned in this way:

The Law Explored: abduction and false imprisonment
Gary Slapper explores the complexities of English law in plain languageGary Slapper
Keeping someone against their will is a serious crime, in addition to being a civil wrong. It is a primal violation of personal liberty. However, English law governing this area has to be quite subtle, as there are many situations in which society quite reasonably wants to empower someone to keep another person against their will. Think of parents controlling young children, or institutions such as schools or prisons acting “in loco parentis” (in the place of parents).

The definition of the common law offence of kidnapping is to take someone, by force or fraud, without their consent and “without lawful excuse”. Even being taken 100 yards can be enough for the crime to be committed. It can also include parents who take a child away without the child’s consent.

But there are various rules that stop prosecutions being brought too easily. For example, the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions is needed for the prosecution of kidnapping against a child under the age of 16 by “a person connected with the child”. And it was noted in a House of Lords case in 1984 that parents should only be prosecuted for the crime “in exceptional cases, where the conduct of the parent concerned is so bad that an ordinary right-thinking person would immediately and without hesitation regard it as criminal in nature”.

There is also a common law crime of “false imprisonment”. This is the intentional or reckless restraint of someone’s freedom of movement from a particular place – a crime unless the restrainer has a lawful excuse. In assessing the seriousness of a false imprisonment when it decides on an appropriate punishment, the court can look at the purpose for the imprisonment. In a case in 1998, the Court of Appeal supported a life sentence against a repeat sex offender who had locked a university student in a bathroom cubicle and, at knifepoint, made her perform acts of gross indecency. The imprisonment lasted only 20 minutes but its purpose was inextricably linked to non-consensual sex.

Related Links
The Law Explored: classification of drugs
The Law Explored: could robots replace lawyers?
Parents are seldom found guilty of false imprisonment of their children because the sort of restraint imposed at home is usually well within the realms of what the law allows as “reasonable parental discipline”. But parental restraint can be unlawful where, for example, a parent stops a child from returning to residence of the person at which a court has ordered that the child shall live. A restraint on a child will also be unlawful if it is “outside the realm of reasonable parental discipline”. In a case in 1985, the Court of Appeal held that a conviction could stand against a father who had been trying to take his fifteen year old daughter back to her country of origin against her will. His car, in which she was being carried, was stopped by police officers as she was screaming for help out of the car window.

The crime of false imprisonment can be committed when the victim is restrained physically, like being locked in a car. It can also be committed simply by words, as where intimidation or commands are used, if the victim submits. A woman prevented from leaving a flat through the deliberate intimidating behaviour of a man who had assaulted her, and who had her apartment keys, would be falsely imprisoned.

In addition to kidnapping and false imprisonment, there are various relevant statutory offences. The Child Abduction Act 1984 is an example. Under this law, a person (for example, a parent or guardian) connected with a child under the age of 16 commits an offence if he takes or sends the child out of the United Kingdom without the appropriate consent.

All this criminal law is geared to punish wrongdoers with a fine or imprisonment. But there is also civil law covering this area. False imprisonment is also a tort (a civil wrong), which means the victim can sue for compensation. Total restraint of the liberty, even for a short time, by the use or threat of force or by confinement is considered an imprisonment. The claimant needn’t prove that the imprisonment was unlawful or malicious: if the claimant establishes a prima facie (at first impression) case by proving that he was imprisoned by the defendant, the onus then falls on the defendant to prove a legal justification.

The rules here have been carefully developed to reflect general standards in contemporary Britain – making anything brutal unlawful while permitting the responsible exercise of power

hope4truth said...


Both my girls use MSN and although I allow them their privacy while talking to their friends we have spent a long time talking about the sick men and woman that use the sites to try and abuse children.

They only allow people as contacts if they actually know them and block any random requests to be allowed to be added to contacts.

I try not to scare them to much but have pointed out if they allow people to post to them they dont know the georgeous 14 year old boy they think they are talking to may actually be a fat, bald, sweaty man of 50 sitting in dirty pants and a string vest trying to get them to meet him so he can hurt them.

They tell me they are not that stupid but neither am I so the lectures go on there have been some TV programes on recently exposing these sick people I think that brought it home to them that Mum is not totally paranoid...

There needs to be much tougher laws agains Peadophiles not just if they are caught after abusing a child but if they have images of children or have been caught trying to groom them not just a slap on the wrist they should be tagged for life. I am all for Human Rights but the right of a child to a happy childhood must come far above the rights of these sick people...

viv said...

Hiya Hope

You are right to keep reminding your children and checking this way. There are countless thousands of paedophiles and they are sick and manipulative.

I know many only receive probation for storing sick images of children. Such offenders tend to move in cycles, their conduct increasing in seriousness as they become accustomed to it, realise they are getting away with, and are not getting sufficient kicks. Stopping this cycle at an early stage is they key to protecting children. WE saw how Huntley's offending became ever more serious and sadly nothing was done to stop him. Time and again these offenders are given lenient sentences but later in their criminal career move on to doing something far more serious. I do not think the law is tough enough here and something needs to be done about it. It is known that it is extremely difficult to "cure" sex offender and so removing them from children altogether is the only realistic answer.

hope4truth said...


From what I have read about Peadophiles there is no cure (maybe castration as it would take away he urge) the problem with these people is they really think the childen want the attention and it is a normal thing to do.

They see themselves as no diffrent from other groups of people, ie: straight, Gay, Bi sexual they think that peadophillia is just another trait...

They really belive they should be left alone to do what they do and as you say the more they get away with the worse they become.

Laws need changing fast and internet sites should be closed down or hacked into so it alerts the authorities when people try to access them.

Normal feelings of law and order go out the window with me when children are at risk the children should come first and justice should be swift. (Obviously the person should get a fair trial but if found guilty no soft sentance)...

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I do not think castration would take away the urge. It is a mental/personality disorder issue, they need to control. Castrating them would not stop them from being a danger to children.

They do seek to justify their behaviour invariably by blaming the child. Typically they will say they never hurt the child, the child was enjoying it and was up for it etc. They also often claim to love the child. Dangerous criminals always indulge in victim blaming - they see themselves as the victim; minimisation of their offending in an attempt to justify it or lessen its seriousness, blatant denial the offence even took place, or that there was anything wrong in their behaviour at all - they are the most dangerous e.g. the domestic violence offender who says "well the slut deserved it".

The one thing you always see in these type of offenders is the overwhelming obsession with power and control - sex offenders, domestic violence offenders, murderers. They are pscyhopaths and very dangerous. Most professionals agree pscyhopathy is an innate feature of a person's character and although it may mellow with age you cannot change what they are. For this reason they are generally shifted from mental hospitals and into prison.

hope4truth said...


What a sad world we live in there dont seem to be any answeres.

Talk to childen and tell them the dangers in a way they will understand at the age they are when you tell them and keep telling them.

I am at a loss our kick boxing instructor told the girls if anyone ever grabs them to try and snap their little finger and run like hell as they will be in great pain and wont be able to punch or hold on with a broken finger...

Good advice for anyone ever in a bad situation...

2345 said...


I think you've missed my point.
NHS do need sick notes for sick pay entitlement. Any GP would have given K & G notes for sick pay entitlement on the basis of severe anxiety and stress, i.e. normal reaction in their ongoing search for their 'missing' child.

Their fitness to work in patient care even if they had returned before being named 'arguios' would have been made by their superiors, especially regarding their emotional ability to cope with surgery pressures.

Suspended medical practitioners are paid until cleared or discharged; they're not left penniless. NHS would ensure GP and Consultant searching for their 'abducted' daughter received their full entitlements -six months full pay. Gerry returned at the end of this six month period. Kate, presumably, was deemed unfit to cope with surgery demands.

viv said...

Hi 2345

Clearly we are a cross purposes here - my point is that Gerry would not think there was anything wrong with him at all and certainly would not admit to it because that is the way that he is. In relation to Kate, he simply would not have allowed her to go anywhere near a doctor to get a sick note! He needs to control what she thinks and says..You cannot get a sick note without visiting a doctor..no sick note..no sick pay!

I do agree that they obtained sick notes, their superiors would have assessed their fitness to return to work. Gerry does have the ability to compartmentalise issues and is clearly not at all troubled by the disappearance of Madeleine, so would be fit to go back to work. Kate is another matter entirely...(!)

So far as I am aware neither Kate or Gerry were ever suspended from work and so that is not an issue here. Suspension involved disciplinary proceedings - I doubt Kate made that necessary for her employers. Gerry's employers have agreed to give him the benefit of the doubt and patients the right to choose whether or not they wish to see him. It would seem he has also been kept in the background on "research" for much of his working time, away from patients. I think it would have been Kate and Gerry, most particularly Gerry himself that deemed Kate unfit! It was announced Kate had no plans to return to work, after all. Stating it was her employers decision is pure conjecture.

2345 said...


A friend studying for a psychology degree learned a few handy tips with sex pests and would be rapists. Apparently, part of their 'kick' in their psyche is the 'struggle'. Kick box and self defence classes for females were unheard of when the following advice was given - the best weapon then was, apparently, a small spray - perfume or such, carried at all time in the pocket. Any problems - spray the assailant directly in the eyes and run ....
The secret was to act before the person got within reach.

Anonymous said...

Think you will have to concede..Viv correct re sicknotes etc.
Once again you are assuming too much.

viv said...

Hiya Hope and 2345

I do agree self defence whether it is a bottle of perfume or kick boxing is a positive things women and children can learn to defend themselves against dangerous males who they are no physical match for as a matter of simple biology. This does emphasise how inadequate these men are.

2345 said...


I fully understand the point you're making and I agree entirely.
I was working in patient care when my father died and felt emotionally strong enough to carry on working. My work performance must have shown otherwise; I was given time off, fully paid, to 'emotionally' return to normal.

It would not reflect badly on K & G's mental/emotional function to be, likewise signed off by their overseers, given their extraordinary circumstances. The McCanns weren't interviewed or named arguidos until six months after the disappearance. Up until then, I think most people believed Madeleine had been abducted ... the 'normal' distress in the circumstances would have entitled them to as their GPs for sick notes.

I agree that after six months, their entitlements would be reduced. deal with grief and recover. This was more for patients' benefit than my own.

Manager I've told you about my legal involvement with stepmother. He died before this was finalized. ; I thought I was well enough

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
viv said...

Hi 2345

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. Employers cannot sign their employees of sick, that is something only the employee's GP can do. All the employer can do is give them up to two weeks compassionate leave, after that they must produce a sick note. Whilst Kate and Gerry would, I am sure, have been able to persuade any GP they were unfit for work, they clearly did not seek any sick notes. Had they done so, they would have been on full sick pay and would not have needed to pay the mortgage from the Find Maddie Fund.

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