9 Mar 2008

FASCINATING TRANSCRIPT DISCUSSION MADDIE CASE

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NANCY GRACE
Portuguese Prosecutor Refers McCann Case to Judge for Decision
Aired September 11, 2007 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A beautiful 3-year-old little girl, baby Maddy, reportedly snatched during a luxury resort vacation. Her parents party at a dinner 100 yards away at the time, leaving baby Maddy and twin siblings home alone. Police name Maddy`s own mom and dad crime suspects.Headlines tonight, stunning developments continue at a rapid pace. Now we learn police turn over 1,000-plus pages of evidence and prosecutors take their case to a top judge, that judge to make the final charging decision, police reportedly seeking charges of homicide and concealing the baby`s body.And tonight, reports that baby Maddy`s DNA, possibly blood, found in three distinct places, one under the carpet in the trunk of the McCann rental car, two, another spot in that same rental car, three, on the windowsill on the McCann luxury rental condo. Police now refuse to confirm a 100 percent DNA match to baby Maddy. But this combined with newly released evidence that huge amounts of Maddy`s hair found inside that car rented by Maddy`s family 25 days after she goes missing -- hair. And as we go to air tonight, word that police are searching a local church in the baby Maddy mystery.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madeleine McCann has been missing for four months. But in one day today, a number of significant developments. First of all, the police delivered their report to the prosecutor here in Portimao. Then they quickly passed it to a local judge. It could mean that he is aiming to impose respel (ph) restrictions on Kate and Gerry McCann, might mean that he`s applying for a warrant, or it might mean that he`s looking for new surveillance permission of some kind.It comes after unconfirmed claims that Madeleine McCann`s DNA has been found in the car hired by her parents after she disappeared and that that DNA is a 99 percent match. The Portuguese police point out DNA results are never conclusive.(END VIDEO CLIP)GRACE: And tonight, an assistant principal heads to the middle school in her Mercedes, upscale Cincinnati suburbs. But uh-oh, she leaves something in the car. That`s right, her 2-year-old baby girl. Temperatures over 140 degrees in the car. Cause of death, the heat. Mommy says she forgot the baby, but she remembered to bring doughnuts for the teachers. As vigils go on for baby Cecelia, we discover Mommy has done it before plenty. But why do prosecutors refuse to bring charges?(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A suburban Cincinnati community holds a candlelight vigil for 2-year-old Cecelia Slaby, the toddler left to die in temperatures topping 140 degrees in a Mercedes SUV. Her mom, young assistant principal Brenda Slaby, says she planned to drop her baby at the sitter`s, but being too early, picked up doughnuts for the teachers instead. Brenda claims she forgot the little girl in the back seat after dropping off baked goodies for the staff. Some eight hours later, her little girl is dead.Prosecutors say they will not file charges even after it`s revealed it`s not the first time she`s done this to the little girl. She managed to remember hot doughnuts but not the hot car her child died in.(END VIDEO CLIP)GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.First, breaking news. Tonight, prosecutors take their case to a top judge for a charging decision in the baby Maddy mystery.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that it is an investigation that`s lasted more than four weeks. There will be a lot of paperwork, and also, there have been some very lengthy interviews with Gerry and Kate McCann, 11 hours last Thursday for Kate, followed by another 4 hours the next morning, and 8 hours for Gerry that afternoon before both of them became formal suspects in the disappearance of their own daughter.Now, we understand the prosecutor will be going through these papers, and he could decide one of three things. He could decide either now there is enough evidence to charge either Kate, Gerry or both of them for the disappearance of their daughter, or he could decide that more evidence is needed. Or alternatively, he could decide that the police have gone down the wrong avenue and need to change their line of investigation.UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gerry McCann, Madeleine`s father, had posted a message. He posted a blog on the Web site that was created for Madeleine shortly after she disappeared. On the message, he said he and his wife, Kate, had nothing to do with her abduction.GERRY MCCANN, FATHER OF MISSING GIRL: We have played no part in the disappearance of our lovely daughter, Madeleine.UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parents may have left Portugal, but their future is in the hands of the Portuguese legal system.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)GRACE: Major developments happening as the hours go by. We now know that prosecutors take their case to a top judge for a final charging decision, police handing over 1,000 pages over to prosecutors, that case now in the hands of a judge.Let`s go straight out to Emily Chang, CNN correspondent in Rothley, England. What is the latest?EMILY CHANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, the latest is that the case has been handed over to a Portuguese judge, who will do one of many things, possibly review the possibility of charges, possibly order fresh searches, possibly order further questioning.But the mood here in Rothley -- and I should say that we`re live down the street from the McCann household. They have asked us to respect their privacy, and we are honoring their wishes. But I should say that this is a very ordinary, very suburban town, the McCanns a very ordinary family, and they`ve come back under extraordinary circumstances, very, very extraordinary circumstances. They are perhaps the most widely recognized couple in the world right now. And for a very quiet town, they`ve taken this in stride. They`ve been widely supportive of the McCanns over the past four months.But with these latest developments, the McCanns being named as formal suspects earlier this week and today the case being handed over to a prosecutor, the villagers, I would say, are very confused.GRACE: You know -- to Jerry Lawton, reporter with "The Daily Star" -- the case has been handed over by prosecutors to a judge. Jerry Lawton, I want to talk to you about the three locations -- I want to talk about the facts. I want us to decide for ourselves what we think because what does a judge sitting up on a bench know more than police and prosecutors about, Do you need a fresh search, Do you need to reinterview witnesses?The three spots of alleged DNA, tell me where they are and what we know about them, Jerry.JERRY LAWTON, "THE DAILY STAR": Well, Nancy, what we know at the moment -- and the police have given a briefing today. And they have said that they have got an 88 percent match on Maddy`s DNA found in the spare wheel recess in the boot of the hired car that the McCanns rented 25 days after she disappeared. Apparently, body fluids were discovered in that recess beneath the upholstery in the trunk of the car.They`ve also recovered, apparently, from that car considerable strands of Madeleine`s hair, which are basically -- they say, couldn`t -- the amount is so large that they could not simply have been transferred there from her clothes or from any of her possessions. They say sadly that they must have come from her body.GRACE: OK. Jerry, I`m sorry. You cut out on me. Would you repeat that last sentence, please?LAWTON: Yes, sorry. Basically, they found considerable chunks of Madeleine`s hair, strands of Madeleine`s hair in the car. And according to Portuguese police, the quantity is so considerable that it could not have come from indirect transfer, from Madeleine`s clothes and possessions. According to Portuguese police, it must have come from Madeleine`s body, direct contact with Madeleine`s body inside the hired car.GRACE: Joining us now, CNN correspondent, in addition to Jerry Lawton and Emily Change, Paula Hancocks is joining us from Praia da Luz. Thank you for being with us. Paula, chunks of hair? Now, I prosecuted a lot of cases where we would have a hair transfer or you would find hair on the fibers of a car, on the sheets of a bed. That is very common. But Paula, chunks of hair, not common. Very unusual, if it`s to be believed, Paula.And also, Paula Hancocks, if you could tell me about the three different locations there is alleged baby Maddy DNA. I know about in the trunk of the car, under the carpet where you keep the spare tire. OK. That`s unusual in itself. But what are the other two locations? And tell me about the chunks of hair.PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, we`re hearing from Portuguese and British media, as well, about this -- the hair, and the fact that also not all the DNA results have come back. You know, they were taken to Britain and they`re still waiting, these Portuguese police, for some of those DNA results. But certainly, the media is reporting that it could not have just been maybe one particular hair, but it is expected to be something more significant than this.The police, we`ve been calling them. They are unable to confirm this. It is illegal for them to confirm this. They`re under a secrecy law, so it`s impossible. And of course, the McCanns themselves are bound by the law. They can`t talk now. They`re formal suspects. Of course, much of that forensic evidence is coming from the holiday apartment, as well. That`s crucial, the fact that this is where Madeleine was last seen.GRACE: OK. So the three spots of DNA, to my understanding -- and correct me if I`m wrong -- first of all, under the carpet, in the trunk where the spare tire is kept. Number two, another spot within that same rental car. Number three, the windowsill of the luxury rental condo where they were vacationing. Is that your information, as well, Paula?HANCOCKS: That is the information that we`re getting from the Portuguese media and also from the British media. The police themselves, as I say, are just legally bound. They cannot confirm. Every time we phone them and ask them, they have to deny it. It`s a legal obligation for them.And of course, we`ve heard from British and Portuguese media, as well, that the church is not necessarily out of the picture at this point. This is the church where the McCanns took much comfort from. They went there on a number of occasions. And certainly, we`ve heard rumors from the Portuguese media that this was being searched, as wellWe`ve actually been down there, and there`s no indication it`s being searched at this point. But this is the kind of case it is. These kind of rumors really do swirl around quite out of hand, really.GRACE: Well, Paula, don`t police have to get a warrant to search? And if there is a warrant to search, isn`t that a public document? Why should there have to be a rumor?HANCOCKS: They`re not physically out (INAUDIBLE) the church. We`ve been down there not so long ago to check on that, and they`re not there. There`s some building works going on behind the church. They`re building a house for the church itself. But that`s actually not happening. The only authorization the prosecutors need at this point is from the judge.Now, as we know, the police got the evidence. They passed it on to the prosecutor. The prosecutor in record time, really, passed it on to the judge. And what Portuguese and British media are reporting is that they want to seize evidence. They want urgent authorization from the judge to seize a piece of evidence. Now, we don`t know what that is. No one knows what that is, at this point. But clearly, the prosecutor thinks it`s very key to this case.GRACE: So let me get this straight, Paula. In their system -- everyone, as you know by now, the McCanns were vacationing in Portugal at a luxury resort. The night baby Maddy went missing -- that we know of that night -- that night, the parents were dining at a dinner party about the size of a football length away from their three children that they left alone there in the luxury rental, although we believe that there was a baby-sitting service there at the resort. They did not use that. So long story short, she goes missing that night.Paula, are you telling me that in their system at Portugal, you have to go to a judge, much like we do, every time you seize evidence?HANCOCKS: At this point, yes. Now, the police have all the evidence they feel they need to incriminate somebody -- we don`t know who -- or to at least give it to the prosecutors and say to the prosecutors, Look what we have, is this enough for a case? The prosecutor then has to go to the judge, who really is just an approval judge. He has to authorize that, Yes, you are allowed to either search that particular property -- you are allowed to tap that particular phone.And also, the prosecutors would have to go to the judge if they wanted to change the status of Mr. and Mrs. McCann from "arguida," from formal suspects. If they wanted to change that in any way, they need the approval of the judge. But it is the prosecutor itself that is calling the shots. It`s just an extra level, a safeguard, if you like.GRACE: Paula, question. Have you heard reports that there was some type of an argument between Mrs. McCann and baby Maddy overheard by a neighbor shortly before she went missing?HANCOCKS: That`s not one that I`ve heard, I must admit. Covering this story, you hear some unbelievable rumors and speculation, much of which you just dismiss out of hand. But that`s not actually one that I`ve heard, at this point.GRACE: Well, frankly -- to Jerry Lawton with "The Daily Star" joining us from England -- reports like that, that surface this late in the game, I think lose credibility. If a neighbor would have heard an argument like that between the mom and the daughter, it would seem to me, to maintain any credibility at all, they would have come forward at the beginning, not wait -- this happened on May the 3rd -- not wait all these months and go, Oh, yes, I think I heard something. To me, that greatly hurts the credibility of such a report.Jerry Lawton, with "The Daily Star," what more can you tell us about the evidence?LAWTON: Well, what we`ve heard, Nancy, is that an 81-year-old British woman by the name of Pamela Fenn (ph) lives in the apartment directly above the apartment that the McCanns were staying in. And what she has told Portuguese police is that two days before Madeleine disappeared, that she heard a young girl screaming for her father between -- for 90 minutes, until the -- until 11:45 PM, screaming, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, from inside the McCanns`s apartment.She was concerned (INAUDIBLE) resort staff. And the screaming only ended when the parents returned at 11:45 PM, indicating that the child had been left there. That child, she presumes, she has told the police, was Madeleine. And she was concerned enough at the time to raise this with the staff at the Ocean resort. That is apparently what she`s told police in a sworn statement, which forms part of that evidence bundle that is now with the judge.GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Susan Moss, family lawyer, child advocate out of New York, Ray Giudice, a veteran defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, and Joe Lawless, former prosecutor, veteran defense attorney and author out of the Philadelphia jurisdiction.You know -- out to you, Sue Moss -- I was saying that if you don`t come forward for this long, that kind of hurts your credibility. But according to Jerry Lawton, this elderly -- this senior citizen called the resort that night and says, Hey, something`s wrong with this kid beneath me.SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: What are the Portuguese police doing? They have bumbled this case from day one. We`re hearing about leads. We`re hearing about evidence that are weeks and weeks old, yet this was never examined or brought public earlier before?But I`ll tell you something, if they only have an 88 percent match, they`re not going to be able to prove that Mom made the snatch. It sounds like what they are doing is now going back and looking at the evidence and trying to create a theory, rather than doing what they should have been doing, investigating every lead.GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Mike Brooks, you and I prosecuted cases -- not to date ourselves, of course -- for many, many years before we would have DNA backup. DNA -- a DNA match is just a tiny piece of a big picture.MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It is, Nancy. And 88 percent is not bad. Now, it depend if it`s mitochondrial DNA or nuclear DNA. We heard Dr. Morrone explain that last night. You know, I`m not a doctor, but I can tell you one`s better than the other. So 88 percent is not bad. But I can tell you, it sounds like the Portugal police have bungled this from the beginning. Thank God the Brits got involved.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)MCCANN: Our return is with the full agreement of the Portuguese authorities and police. Portuguese law prohibits us from commenting further on the police investigation. Despite there being so much we wish to say, we are unable to do so except to say this. We have played no part in the disappearance of our lovely daughter, Madeleine.(END VIDEO CLIP)GRACE: Local prosecutors hand their case over to a top judge for a formal charging decision in the baby Maddy mystery.Out to the lines. Amy in Ohio. Hi, Amy.UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations on the twins.GRACE: Can you believe it?UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I can`t. You`ll be a wonderful mother.GRACE: God willing. What`s your question, dear?UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I`ve heard a lot about the word "bodily fluids." What does that constitute?GRACE: Out to Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist. We know it`s blood. What else could it be 25 days after a death?LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, it`s possible that we`re talking about serum, which is the fluid portion of blood. When you remove the solid particles, you have serum left. That`s a possibility. It could be fluids of decomposition. It could be saliva. It could be a lot of different things, but we have the chemistry to test.GRACE: To Dr. Gregory Davis, medical examiner joining us out of Louisville. Dr. Davis, welcome. Could the fluids be as a result of the decomposition of the body?DR. GREGORY DAVIS, MEDICAL EXAMINER, KENTUCKY COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Very easily. It could be something called bloody purge, which is a blood- tinged fluid that often comes out of the mouth and nose.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Around the village, while support is unstinting for them, people are just now beginning to have their doubts. I was talking to one lady today, a heart patient of Gerry McCann`s. He`s a heart surgeon, of course. She was treated by him. And she was saying with all of this rumor and speculation now, it`s difficult to separate fact from fiction. You just don`t know what to believe.(END VIDEO CLIP)GRACE: We now learn prosecutors have handed their case over to charging judge. And tonight it is revealed that huge chunks of hair matching baby Maddy found in that rental car.Holly in Maryland. Hi, Holly.UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.GRACE: Thank you, dear.UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just wondering, if they think that the parents had something to do with this, what kind of safety are they taking for these two other little babies that they have?GRACE: Excellent question. Out to Paula Hancocks. Is it true that there has been consideration of taking the twins away?HANCOCKS: I don`t think so at this point, Nancy. Certainly, the social services in Britain has become involved, as they have to, when two parents become formal suspects in a criminal investigation.GRACE: OK.HANCOCKS: So they`ve certainly been `round to the house. But at this point, I don`t think there`s any worry of that. We think that`s why they left -- that`s probably why they left Portugal, to make sure the children were with their family.GRACE: Emily Chang, have you heard otherwise?CHANG: Well, yesterday, there were social workers here meeting with police to discuss that very thing, the welfare of the twins. It was a significant development. But I should say it`s procedural in a situation like this, where the parents have been named as suspects.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know detectives did gather forensic material, but there`s been no confirmation that a close DNA match with Madeleine has been found. The Portuguese police themselves point out DNA results are never conclusive. So were Kate and Gerry McCann bugged by detectives in order to gain more evidence? Gerry McCann does believe detectives have been listening to their phone calls and reading their e-mails, and it is possible under Portuguese law. He and Kate McCann have denied the allegations throughout, allegations which must now be weighed up by officials here. The parents may have left Portugal, but their future is in the hand of the Portuguese legal system. (END VIDEO CLIP)GRACE: And what we know tonight, huge chunks of hair, baby Maddy`s hair, found in a car rented by the McCann family 25 days after they report the baby missing. We also learned three spots, three separate spots allegedly with her DNA and that local prosecutors have handed their case over to what is called a charging judge to make the final charging decision, over 1,000 pages of documents. Out to the lines, Mary Ann in New York. Hi, Mary Ann. CALLER: Hi, Nancy, wonderful show. GRACE: Thank you, dear. CALLER: Quick question to you, this beautiful little girl, are they still looking for her? It seems there`s so much focus on the parents right now, and nobody is talking about finding this beautiful baby. GRACE: Excellent question, Mary Ann. Paula Hancocks, any word on the continuing search for baby Maddy? PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, we`re hearing reports that they are going to start the search again and start searching possibly in different areas to where they did before. And that would suggest that it did stop when they actually thought the Portuguese police believed that it was the parents who were involved, so they thought that they were looking for a body. Certainly that`s what the McCann family is terrified about, not only the fact they`re suspects in their own daughter`s disappearance, but the fact that nobody is assuming she`s still alive in the Portuguese police and nobody is looking for her. GRACE: Back to Emily Chang in Rothley, England, who has told us that the local authorities have met regarding the twins still in the custody of the McCanns regarding their safety. What can you tell me about the money? I believe it`s close to $2 million raised as a reward and to investigate the case. Do the parents still have access to that money for their legal defense? EMILY CHANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, it`s now more than $2 million. And technically, yes, the McCanns do have access to that money because it is a private fund. However, that is subject to a group of trustees who run that fund, and those trustees include family friends, some relatives, and prominent people in the community. It will be up to them whether they can use that money. GRACE: To Jerry Lawton with "The Daily Star," what`s the police theory, that baby Maddy was killed and then, 25 days later, when they rented the car, they moved the body? And another question to you, Jerry, if you know the answer, when they went to go see the pope in Rome -- I believe that`s when they rented the rental car -- was that the first time they had left the area for an extended period of time? JERRY LAWTON, REPORTER: Well, Nancy, no, it`s not the first time they`d left the area. Gerry had briefly flown home shortly afterwards, leaving Kate and the children in Portugal. And he flew home to basically launch the campaign and the worldwide search for Madeleine. But it was only a brief trip to England, at which he visited the family home for the first time, a very emotional visit, which was captured on TV in England. At that stage, he visited the green in Rothley, which had been decked out in ribbons, flowers and tributes to his missing daughter. He visited that house, returned to Portugal, and then described on his Internet blog what a moving and emotional experience it had been. As a result of that, the couple virtually made a decision there and then not to return to England. They stayed in a different part of the resort to start with...GRACE: So, Jerry, would this have been where they went to see the pope together when they rented that rental car? I`m trying to get to the police theory. I know that they are -- from what they are doing, I can surmise their theory is the body was moved when they rented that rental car 25 days after baby Maddy was reported missing. From what I`m hearing from you...LAWTON: The police say, Nancy, yes...GRACE: Hold on. From what I`m hearing from you, when they went to Rome to see the pope, it was the first time the both of them had left, police theory, the first time both of them had left the body unattended, and that would be the time they would want to move it. Is that where police are headed, Jerry? LAWTON: It appears to be the case, Nancy. They rented the hired car the day before they flew together to Rome to see the pope. That car was rented from Faro airport in Portugal. And the police theory appears to be that, until that point, the body had been kept close to the apartment that they`ve hired and that, shortly after they rented that car, that body was then moved to another location. They`re hunting for two separate body locations. GRACE: So there was certainly no danger that the police were going to find it if it`s right there by the apartment under their theory. Back out to the lines, Janet in Louisiana. Hi, Janet. CALLER: Hi. GRACE: What`s your question, dear? CALLER: Isn`t it likely that Maddy`s two younger siblings would have very similar DNA? GRACE: Similar, but not exact. Let`s unleash the lawyers again, Susan Moss, Ray Giudice, Joe Lawless. You know, Ray, 88 percent match of a transfer. Let`s explain what a transfer is. Transfer is this. Here is a producer, hug, wonderful. Now, his fiber off his suit is on my shirt, maybe not a lot, but some, maybe a hair, maybe a crumb. Something from him is now on me. That`s a transfer. It`s just like that. But, Ray, let`s think about this thing, reportedly an 88 percent DNA match. Think about the location, Ray Giudice. RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. GRACE: In the trunk where the spare tire is? GIUDICE: Nancy, if that 88 percent DNA match was the only or the best piece of evidence, I would feel pretty good on the defense side. But what it`s looking like it`s one of many pieces of evidence that are being stitched together to support the theory that you are talking about, that the body was hidden and then transferred in this rental car 24, 25 days later. And I think that`s the real significance of the 88 percent DNA test, is the revisiting of all these people`s conduct and actions in those months before that body may have been moved. GRACE: And to Mike Brooks, Mike, something you said last night really intrigued me from a legal point of view, from an evidentiary, probative point of view, and I think you`re right, the fact that we did not see cops turn on the McCanns until the mom gave an 11-hour Q&A session with the cops. MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: That`s exactly right, Nancy. Something had to have come out of that interview. I mean, me, as a cop, I`ve done long, long interviews before, and people always change their stories during that interview. You know, she says, "They want me to lie, I`m being framed." I don`t think so, Nancy. Something came out of that interview that led the investigators to follow these different leads. And I`m glad that the Brits got involved because, Nancy, they brought in dogs, cadaver dogs, and they had a positive hit inside of that condo. GRACE: You know, another thing to you, Joe Lawless, he`s right, the fact that the mom is saying that she had come in contact with the dead as part of her practice, I don`t know, that struck me wrong. On the other hand, Joe Lawless, you know, we are hearing a lot from the Portuguese police, who have had one misstep after the next -- I really doesn`t know which way to go on this one, Joe. JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what we`re hearing, though, are unsubstantiated rumors from, quote, "sources close to the investigation" in a country where police aren`t supposed to do it. They`re leaking information. They`re trying to create an atmosphere of guilt. And I haven`t heard a single solitary scrap of evidence of any kind indicating anything along the lines of these people killing their child, let alone having the bright idea, "Oh, let`s drive to go see the pope and, while we`re there, dump our baby daughter." This is something out of Alice in Wonderland. There`s just no evidence to support that.GRACE: I don`t know if it`s that far. If any of these facts are true, I think prosecutors may have a case, but they`re already backpedaling on the DNA. To Dorothy in Virginia, hi, Dorothy. CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I was just curious to wondering if, who rented the car before the parents did? GRACE: Why? What is your point on that, Dorothy? CALLER: Well, just saying, whoever rented the car, what if that was the murderer and it just so happened that the parents rented the same car that whoever took the child did? GRACE: OK, that is quite a roll of the dice. CALLER: True. GRACE: That the person that rented the car killed the baby, then the parents rented it. What about it, Paula Hancocks? HANCOCKS: We have actually spoke to the manager at the local car company where the McCanns rented that car a little earlier on today, and they said that they could confirm that they had rented it. They couldn`t give us any details of who had rented it before. And we asked them why. We said, "Is it because it`s company policy or because the police are telling you to say something?" And he said, the police are telling us to keep quiet. We can`t tell you anything. So surely this is something the police have thought of, as well. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)(NEWSBREAK)GRACE: Welcome back. We now know that the prosecution in the baby Maddy case has handed their case over to a charging judge. I want to go out to a very special guest joining us, Dr. William July, psychologist and author. Dr. July, if the parents had anything to do with this, why would they stay in the jurisdiction of Portugal where this resort is and go on TV and beg for help? It seems like, if they had anything to do with it, then high-tail it out of there and get home as fast as they could. WILLIAM JULY, PSYCHOLOGIST: This is behavior of interest. What`s happening is the behavior is going to tell us the story. All we have to do is sit back and read the behavior like a book. At first, their behavior looked consistent with that of people who didn`t do anything, but now the story is turning. And as things are turning, they`re starting to take a sort of a defensive posture. And as that happens, you start to wonder, as a psychologist, questions start popping up in my head about why people would start to change as the chain of events have changed. GRACE: To change their behavior. And I`ve often found, Doctor, that behavioral evidence -- we saw it in the Scott Peterson case, is the perfect example -- is some of the strongest evidence out there for those people that don`t believe DNA. For instance, about DNA, to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, an expert in his field, forensic scientist, how could the location or the amount of the DNA rule out a transfer, a simple transfer? LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: I don`t think it can. Obviously, if you have a great deal of material, that becomes suspicious. A little tiny fleck of blood could be innocently deposited; a larger stain becomes very suspicious. I think the real issue, those clumps of hair, because when a body decomposes you could lose clumps of hair, not individual strands that could be transferred by contact. GRACE: Interesting, Dr. Kobilinsky. To Dr. Gregory Davis, medical examiner, joining us out of Louisville, Kentucky, is that true? As the body decomposes, hair can fall out more easily in chunks? DR. GREGORY DAVIS, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Quite so. It easily falls out as a function of time. Just by manipulation of a body, it could come apart, come off the scalp. GRACE: Everybody, in this case, we know the prosecution has now handed the case over. Let`s go quickly to the lawyers, Sue Moss, Ray Giudice, Joe Lawless. Ray, there are a lot of coincidences in this case stacking up against the McCanns. I`m certainly not ready to call it yet in light of the Portuguese police track record. GIUDICE: No, I agree with you completely. I`m not saying these folks are guilty of anything. I`m just saying that, in light of the positive DNA, it`s starting to look like the facts need to be revisited. GRACE: Very quickly, everyone, I want to give you an update on another case. An assistant principal remembers to take hot doughnuts into the other teachers but forgets the hot car her little girl is sitting in, strapped in a car seat, and dies. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The West Clermont local school superintendent Gary Brooks stuck with policy, accepting no public comment on whether Glen Este Middle School Assistant Principal Brenda Nesselroad-Slaby should get her job back after forgetting her child in her SUV for hours last month, where the child died from the heat. With the board behind closed doors, emotions from the audience erupted on both sides. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did not do it intentionally! UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, she left her child in the car. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether a child died or not, I want to know where her consequences are. She`s been let go. She`s not been found guilty. She`s been let go. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I just told you, between her God and herself, she is suffering a lot of consequences. (END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: Out to Bill Rinehart, reporter with 700 WLW Radio. Why haven`t there been charges? BILL RINEHART, REPORTER: The prosecutor reviewed the police report. And while the police suggested that Brenda Slaby should face child endangerment charges, the prosecutor said he could not in good faith take it to a grand jury and present it as a criminal case. He said there was not criminal intent there. GRACE: OK, it`s not criminal intent to kill. It`s criminal intent to do the deed, which is leave the child in the car, or negligent intent. Very quickly, what about the state A.G., Bill Rinehart? Anybody going to the state A.G. on this? RINEHART: No one has gone to the state level, but a local law professor from the University of Cincinnati this morning suggested that the U.S. district attorney do it, and they say they do not have jurisdiction. GRACE: Very quickly, everyone, we`ll be right back on the story. But, first, "CNN Heroes."(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)JOHN SMEATON, CNN HERO: Well, I seen a four by four. Well, it crashed into the side of the door in the terminal building. And I`m thinking to myself, well, that`s a bad accident.UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got some breaking news. A car on fire has been driven into the Glasgow Airport in Scotland.UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is being treated as a terrorist incident.SMEATON: It was just, ah, that couldn`t be. It was unfathomable.I was in this area here. And I seen a gentleman coming from the passenger side of the vehicle. And the police officer came from across the road and they guy just started punching the policeman. And all I could think of doing was going to help.I ran up and I try to kick the guy, and a man, Michael, he had done the exact same thing as me.UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn`t just stand there so I just went and punched and kicked him and I ended up breaking my leg in the ramming.SMEATON: He was lying on the ground. I was really worried about an explosion from the vehicle. And I thought, We need to get Michael and myself away from the situation.UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could see the flames in the car. And as I`m sitting here, the driver of the car, he throws out petrol, and that`s when John Smeaton starts pulling me back. John Smeaton saved my life.SMEATON: My life has changed from one extreme to another. I enjoy my quiet mundane, happy life.This is my uniform. This is my t-shirt, my trousers.I`m a supervisor in the baggage sortation area. When you check your bag in, I`m on the other end of the conveyor belt. You know, it really does bewilder me why everybody thinks I`ve done such a big thing. But at that time I just thought it was my duty.Democracy`s all about compromise and getting on with things. You should be brought up to treat people as they come. And if these people think they`re going to keep the British people down, then they`ve got another thing coming.(END VIDEOTAPE)(COMMERCIAL BREAK)GRACE: Tonight, the six-year mark of the September 11th attacks. Memorials all over the country, including ringing of bells, bagpipes, moments of silence, flowers laying on the spot where the Twin Towers were attacked. Tonight, we remember nearly 3,000 people who lost their lives on the heinous attack on America. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lucille Theresa King. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Robert King, Jr., and my friend, Sean Edward Bowman, Jr. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thomas M. Butler and my cousin, Andrew S. Zucker. (CROSSTALK)(END VIDEO CLIP)GRACE: Let`s remember Army Private First Class Jaron Holliday, 21, Tulsa, Oklahoma, killed, Iraq. Hoping to enlist at age 11, accomplished pianist, never met a stranger, loved people-watching, going on church mission trips. Leaves behind parents John and Kelly, six younger brothers, one younger sister. Jaron Holliday, American hero. Thank you to all our guests, but especially to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Tonight, our prayers with the families who lost their loved ones on September 11th six years ago. Good night, friend.

56 comments:

Penelope1 said...

Bravo Viv! Yet another example of your excellent acquisition skills for information relevant to the case.

2345 said...

I second that ... thanks Viv.

I found the psychologists comments particularly interesting - irrespective of forensic evidence - they 'read' peoples' behaviour as an all telling book.

There's always been so much 'nit picking' by McCann sycophants over 88% or 99% being 'inconclusive' - despite the fact that these levels confirm specimens do not belong to another. The most 'telling' aspect of this case has always been the incredibly bizarre behaviour. Everyone I know noticed and commented on this in the very early stages; the public do not have to be fully qualified psychologists to instinctively come to the conclusion that something was "very odd" with this pair.

Shannon's tragic disappearance is a timely reminder of normal behaviour and reactions in truly genuine cases. Compare her parents to Maddie's and the public do not need forensics to prove they in 'in it up to the necks and over their heads' GUILTY.

The Jersey case was given a lengthy slot on Channel 4 news last night along with justified condemnation of those responsible for the despicable cover ups. One victim, now an elderly gentleman, spoke of the appalling treatment he suffered. All credit to him, he voiced no anger or bitterness; he relayed his experiences with great dignity. It's heartening to see the painstaking work of the police in this case, alongside Madeleine's and Shannon's.

People are quick to critize but slow to praise the resources which come to the fore in cases of tragedy. The McCanns' ingratitude is a measure of their arrogance and guilt. 9.55 a.m.

eurekamano said...

Hi all, Nancy Grace says it like it is, wonderful. Well, I wonder if the PJ really will arrive tomorrow as was suggested on the 3As. Someone who has an insider at Birmingham airport said that memos had circulated restricting media coverage tomorrow but not saying why. Usually, celebrities are named but not this time which raised suspicions.
Perhaps someone living nearby can check it out?
eureka 1210

2345 said...

Interesting article from 3 A's:

This is news that seems to have been missed by many posters on this forum:

Blood clue puts McCann parents in crosshairs
From correspondents in Portugal
January 09, 2008 01:00am

Blood found 'was definitely Madeleine's'
Police want Kate's diary seized as evidence
Timeline: How the Maddie case has unfolded

THE international hunt for missing British girl Madeleine McCann took several new twists yesterday as the investigation appeared to focus more tightly on her parents.

Portuguese police moved closer to charging the parents Kate and Gerry McCann after demanding the mother's diary be seized as trial evidence.

Madeleine, 3, disappeared from a room in a Portuguese holiday resort in May while her parents dined at a nearby restaurant.

'Blood was definitely Maddie's'

Blood found in a car hired by her parents weeks after she disappeared definitely came from the British girl, it was reported yesterday.

The Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manha cited police sources as saying new tests on blood found in the hire car conclusively showed it was Madeleine's.

"The definitive result of the tests leave no doubts for the Policia Judiciaria. The blood found in the McCanns' car is that of Madeleine as well as those samples detected in the flat," the paper said.

Portuguese police have also reportedly cast doubt on evidence an expat Briton was spotted near the resort the night of the disappearance. They say Robert Murat, who has been questioned several times, maintains he was home on the night and that the man seen may have been a friend of the McCanns.

The McCanns - officially suspects in Portugal - reacted in fury to the claims.

Kate's diary 'points to her involvement'

Portuguese newspapers have already published what they claim are extracts from Kate's journal and say the diary is fundamental to the belief that the 39-year-old GP and mother-of-three was involved in the death of her daughter.

Passages are said to reveal a mother at her wits' end coping with three hysterical kids. Her twins, Sean and Amelie, were aged 2 when their sister vanished. Cardiologist Gerry, 39, is said to be portrayed as an absent dad happy to leave his wife to shoulder the burden while he relaxed on holiday.

Unsourced claims in the Portuguese media said police believed the child was killed in the apartment and her body moved in a car hired 25 days after she vanished.

Parents 'depressed'

In England, The Sun newspaper has reported the parents are depressed that again wild rumour and speculation is being presented as fact.

The British paper claims it is ridiculous to suggest Madeleine's blood was in the car because she was never in it.

According to Correio Da Manha, the police case against the McCanns consisted of sniffer dogs and that traces of blood indicate the presence of the little girl's body behind a sofa and in the trunk of the car.

Kate and Gerry have always maintained there are innocent explanations for DNA found.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23 ... 33,00.html

_________________
Justice for Maddie!

Last edited by Estelle on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.




Top

Anonymous said...

Breaking news on CNN Tv on line now.

2345 said...
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Chinadoll said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Chinadoll said...

Oh and viv,

Do you know that your clock does not work on your website?
It would be nice if you could do something about it.

2345 said...

Interesting article from Alsabella:

09-Mar-2008
Mari Luz - Murdered?

It appears that the death of little Mari Luz Cortés, according to the Correio da Manhã, points towards homicide. The body was autopsied by a team from the Anatomic Forensic Institute of Huelva, in the presence of members from the Scientific Police, who also collected elements at the location where the child's body was found.

According to the family's spokesperson, Mr. Luís Molina, it is probable that the family will request a second autopsy, not because they do not trust the professionals that carried out the first one, but because "they want to be sure".

Correio da Manhã ascertains that they were advised to do so by the detective agency that was investigating Mari Luz's disappearance - and which is NOT Metodo 3 - which will tomorrow begin investigating at the place where her little body was found. Their purpose now will be to find the person/persons who committed this heinous act. They will be paid from the fund which many people donated to and which Mr. Cortés specified neither he nor his wife were to have access to.

Mari was found with two deep gashes: one on her head and another on her cheek. She was fully dressed with the clothes she was wearing on the day she disappeared.

The family allegedly continues to believe this was an act of revenge and suspects a particular individual. The police, on the other hand, continues its investigation, without making reference to suspects or possibilities.

The results of the autopsy should be known within the next day.

Hundreds of people gathered outside of Town Hall in Huelva, at 12 PM for 5 minutes of silence in honour of Mari Luz.

A judge has decreed secrecy around this case. The results of the autopsy will not be publicly revealed.

Posted by alsabella at 1:40:00 AM 180 comments
08-Mar-2008

2345 said...

chinadoll,

To the contrary, it would be awfully nice if you would take your gross negativity elsewhere.

Chinadoll said...

Nice one 2345,

I concede, viv is not Billy No Mates, she has you.

Lucky girl.

2345 said...

Felicity,

I'm not in the least surprised to note in the article pasted from Alsa's blog that the Mari's parents have also been using private investigators. I understand it's illegal to do so in a case under Police investigation, as Mari's remains.
Like the McCanns, they also appear to be taking PI's advice irrespective of Police procedures.

Highly questionable that reportedly poor gypsy parents would consider, let alone afford PI's illegal involvement. The fact that Correio da Manha were told that it is NOT Metado 3 pretty much confirms Mari's parents did accept their offer of help when they 'happened' to appear in Huelva at the time of Mari's disappearance.

It's interesting to note that the unprecedented behaviour instigated by McCanns, illegal PI activity alongside a serious criminal investigation was also covertly in operation with Mari's parents. They, in turn, have placed the Spanish Police is exactly the same position as PJ & Leicester Police. This raises the inevitable question - why should this be ?

I e-mailed you on Saturday .. i'll say no more until you've had time to read and digest it. nderstand

2345 said...

chinadoll,

Sunday is a family day, whereas keyboard monkeys have to work shifts 24/7. I rarely post in the evening - your usual shift - I spend time with my husband.

You really do need to address what appears to be a form of insane jealousy of viv, her achievements and popularity. Your negativity is so self destructive; the only person you are damaging is yourself.

2345 said...

chinadoll,

You have two choices, get a life or get help.

You're of absolutely no help to your employers or yourself. A quiet shift must drive you to distraction.

2345 said...

Felicity,

The article refers to the parents suspecting one individual. If this were true, the 'suspect' would have been directly dealt with by the gypsy fraternity. They have their own codes and methods of protection/reprisals; as clannish as the medical profession but far less subtle.

felicity said...

Chinadoll - why can't you get a google account and go and join pscyhopops on her webpage again. Are you a bit miffed they locked you out. You are not welcome here either - little miss no mates!

Viv x

2345

I am not really sufficiently au fait with the current situation re suspects for the murder of Mari Luz. I would like to hear more though before I could form a view.

I am pleased to see the Indian police arrested a murder suspect for the 15 year old girl who got left by her mom.

Great to hear from you as ever.

Viv x

Chinadoll said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
2345 said...

Felicity,

Update on Alsa's blog. M 3 are earning their keep and 'uping the anti' it seems. Two 'reports' from two British mothers of alleged abduction attempts - graphic details (bar vehicle number plates !) of a dodgy looking Moroccan woman caught red handed trying to snatch a British child from a high chair in the house, would you believe - no, I thought not. She escaped ... blue vehicle was clearly seen - as in blue vehicle reported by dubious taxi driver very recently. Same blue car also clearly seen by second British mother ... dodgy looking gypsy tried and failed to snatch her child ... escaped ... no number plate taken or handed to the police.

Who needs entertainment when we have Metado 3 & Clarrie in full swing ?? !!!

As usual, there's no comment or confirmation from the Spanish Police in either case.

Chinadoll said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
2345 said...

chinadoll,

You eat incredibly quickly... bad for your digestion so close to bedtime ... I mustn't assume .. I expect your shift won't end for hours yet, depending on demand.

felicity said...

Hiya 2345

The Retardos really don't care how daft they sound do they, so long as they keep getting paid £58,000 per month they will say anything that their controllers, Gerry McCann, Clarence Mitchell and the dodgiest solicitor I heard of Edward Smethurst... the employee of the double glazing salesman who knows nothing about criminal law but would be well advised to do some serious studying want them to say.

Just the sheer passage of time in itself is enough to clearly distance anything these paid liars could choose to report now. Did they forget Madeleine went missing almost a year ago and two very reputable police forces are not bothering to look for any abductors. In his interview with The Times Marco admitted he had to read up on the internet to find out about paedophiles! We know why his firm specialises in fraud rather than missing children - because that is how he likes to make money - just like the gruesome little trio who employ him. His firm also specialises in dealing cocaine. Clearly the kind of firm a criminal like Gerry McCann would want to jump into bed with. When the McCanns were casting around for people to represent them no one wanted the job - but the delightful Mr Marco!

Viv x

Chinadoll said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
2345 said...

Felicity,

It's rare I'm here in the evenings. My husband's out enjoying Neil Young in concert with our daughter, her Xmas gift to her Daddy.

Atardi said...

Viv,

From the Pets Page:

docmac said...

Viv

I think I know Private eye well! Keeping a private eye on the interests of Gerry and Kate despite any indication of wrongdoing on their part. It was a small mistake, a momentary lapse of reason.

Sunday, March 9, 2008 3:10:00 PM PDT


Hallo Docmac ik ben alleen aan het lezen.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
felicity said...

Hiya 2345

I am sure you will be wanting them to have a great time at the concert as all loving family do.

It is nice we get you hear in the evening. I am in the process of finding your email from last night!

Viv x

docmac said...

Goedenavond Atardi. Alles goed?

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Jackie said...
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felicity said...

Hiya Atardi

I seen Doc's post and answered it - I think he knows it is one of my favourite Pink Floyd albums but the title is also applicable to Kate and Gerry McCann and their sickening little sycophants. The trouble is they all keep on having momentary lapses of reason and they are very easy to spot. As the PJ and Leics Police up the anti against them, so they produce yet more bizarre lapses of reason. I let them show us just how, on the pets page - quite ironic really they would spew such vitriol on a thread that was meant to be pleasant light relief showing my cute little parrot. They have no more respect for him than they do for little Madeleine.

People like that are always known to be vile to defenceless little children and animals who they can be cruel to appealing to their sick and sadistic personality style. The same sick perverted animals who were so cruel to those little children in Jersey. Let us hope they all get rounded up and spend the rest of their revolting little lives in a prison cell, locked up away from decent people and refused access to the internet. It could do with a bit of cleaning up judging by the filth they write on here.


Viv x

2345 said...

Felicity,

I entirely agree. Your article regarding Hogan International's involvement more than strongly suggests never ending false witnesses arranged by M 3 are handed to Hogans for legal grooming. I think the strategy is to compile as many false witness statements they can possibly obtain in the hope of overruling forensic evidence and genuine independent witnesses.

The money being thrown at getting the McCanns off the hook and out of prison is, to my mind, truly alarming. Add to this the cost to Portguese & British taxpayers; the eventual sum of costs caused by this pair will, I believe, be historic. They're not only a liability as parents, all those on their payroll are a threat and a menace to society.

I can honestly say that but for my involvement in Forums, I would never have believed that two people were capable of causing so much trouble to so many people.
They've put so many innocent people through the wringer.

Atardi said...

Hallo Docmac,

Hier is alles goed maar heel druk.
Ik hoop dat de zaak vanaf morgen echt gaat lopen en dat gerechtigdheid zal zegevieren.

Het is zo chaotisch op de blogs.

Groeten.

felicity said...

Hiya 2345

I actually believe that the McCanns strategy was to have the Retardos trawl for any information re paedophiles and strange creepy men in Portugal, Spain, North Africa etc whilst Hogan International's job was to chase up all "witnesses" in the UK that have seen dodgy characters in the Algarve e.g. those having the temerity to pass by the door of 5a or worse still knock up on it and ask for a charity donation or peddle religion. The eminently credible Granny Smith, who lives not too far from Gerry and is also a healthcare worker would have come in this category. There again, she sold her story to the News of the World so maybe she was entirely groomed by them and Gerry McCann with the assistance of the delightful Messrs. Smethurst and Mitchell. Who could even believe this woman is only 50 (!) I must be 26 then LOL

Viv x

docmac said...

Atardi

I agree with you. The coming week should be most interesting and I am truly hoping that it will see the beginning of the final push for justice. The waiting has gone on too long and people are getting frustrated.

Any sign of wind there yet, Viv?

2345 said...

Jersey Case:

Lengthy coverage last night on Channel 4 news. I had a sneaky feeling this would be 'blacked out'. To the contrary a male victim relayed his horrifying treatment with great dignity as well. Good investigative reporting, no holds barred about the cover up and those responsible.
A refreshing reminder of what the news was like before CM arrived on the scene.

Nice to see democracy in full swing for a change.

2345 said...

docmac/Viv

Do either of you suppose reported meetings with PJ and Det Supertindent British ? (name forgotten !) were conducted in the presence of a Government minister ? I cannot imagine the Government NOT monitoring or sticking their oar in at such a crucial stage can you ?

I've been trying to relocate a Portuguese source report I read on 3 A's in a hurry yesterday. All positive bar the last line which said words to the effect of Court proceedings being held in Britain according to British law. IF true, this is exactly the type of stunt the Government would pull.
IF TRUE, the next question is would this give the McCanns' leverage to claim 'unfair trial' by jury due to media coverage ?

docmac said...

2345

There was no mention of it and as I'm so far from the 'action' I've no idea. I'm sure Viv will have an opinion.

Anyway, it's 1am and I'm nodding off, so I'll say night before I actually do. Hope it doesn't get too stormy for you all.

hope4truth said...

Goodnight nearly all

I hope the storms are not to bad for anyone it is still very calm here xxx

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

I agree we are just about to see the final push for justice in this case and I do think it very likely Eureka is right about them checking into Birmingham. Certainly there are relevant flights that either landed tonight or are due soon.

The weather here remains very calm. It has been a warm, sunny day and this evening it is relatively warm, no wind. If it is going to hit there is no sign of it here in the Midlands at present.

Hi 2345

Jersey does not actually come under the jurisdiction of the UK, but I think we are seeing openness and accountability which is refreshing to better protect the international human rights of children. Child abuse and paedophilia are nothing new, it is just that we are learning to give these issues the greater prominence they deserve. Decent people realise children are important - they are our future. What we do to them when they are little and defenceless shapes the way they grow up. If we want a better world we need to learn to better safeguard our little ones. The McCanns attitudes are dark, disgusting and Dickensian.

I do not think any government ministers would have visited Portuguese Police with Detective Superintendent Prior - this is a criminal, not a political matter and he is quite eloquent enought to cope all by himself.

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Hope

I am glad you found us on here - I let the sickos have a little rant on the pets thread - it kind of emphasises just how sick they are but this is a serious thread as the information I posted up the top demonstrates, and they will be deleted if they are just going to continue with their abusive nonsense.

Nite Nite my friend and I hope you will be safe from any storms.

Viv x

Atardi said...

Viv,

Sorry, I thought you hadn't read it.

You did it very well last night. Who was that poster?

Atardi said...

Docmac,

Yes, the beginning of the final push for justice. That's what I'm waiting for.

So sad about Mari Luz.

Lekker slapen.

Atardi said...

Hope4truth,

Goedenavond.

Hope to "read" you soon.

felicity said...

Sorry 2345

I missed the second part of your post. I do not think the possibility of a trial being held in the UK can be entirely ruled out. We certainly have the jurisdiction to prosecute the McCanns here for what they did under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 - any UK citizen who commits homicide abroad can be tried for it here. They could not be tried here purely for the neglect they admitted to whilst abroad however. Furthermore as you know I have never felt they would be put on trial for this. The fact of neglect was just used by Gerry McCann to suggest Madeleine could have been abducted and is therefore all part and parcel of the offence they actually committed - homicide - either murder if intention to kill can be proved or if not manslaughterr which means recklessly hitting a child or causing their death through gross negligence i.e. leaving them alone and subjecting them to risk of serious harm which actually happened - this could have even been the case had Madeleine actually been abducted - but for the McCanns gross negligence she could not have been taken. The evidence however clearly confirms she was not taken anyway and also seems to rule out any possibility of her meeting some accident due to being left alone. The police are saying Kate actually killed Madeleine. This view may have changed since Rebelo took over and strict secrecy observed.

The last time that a person was convicted here of a murder abroad was in 2005. Given the expense and trouble the Portuguese have been put to maybe we may feel obliged to actually run the trial here. Such trials costs literally millions. Maybe the EU could provide a grant to the Portuguese in respect of the very substantial costs of this unprecedented case - given that it was not "home grown crime". I am not sure about that.

I do not think the adverse publicity here, prior to the McCanns even being charged will enable them to claim they could not get a fair trial. Judges would expect our press to seriously calm down and not accuse the McCanns of actually being guilty once they are charged and you will see this happen I predict. Newspapers will become literally paranoid (as some already are) of being accused by our judiciary of being in breach of the Contempt of Court Act 1981. From now on therefore we are likely to only see the blandest of reports about the McCanns getting printed.

Viv x

2345 said...

Goodnight everyone,

Weather is very calm in the south of England ... hope it's the same for everyone else.

felicity said...

Goodnight 2345 - thanks for your interesting viewpoints and questions as ever which does lead to a great debate, I think.

I am pleased to hear the weather is also calm in the south where it was predicted the trouble would really arise. Let us pray, just for once, the weathermen got it wrong and we all have rooves in the morning.

Luv viv x

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
felicity said...

What's up Psycho - did your own little House of Filth just get too boring for you again? Shame!

leigh3 said...

Anonymouse/Psychopops, and your friends:

Is that £7+ or £8+ per hour you are earning at the moment? Tsk. A petty sum for petty souls.

You take blood money from the body of a dead little girl, Madeleine Beth McCann. You protect child neglectors, imo. The Police suspect you of defending child killers.

Jail or massive libel fines await your cynical paymasters.

Meanwhile, hi Felicity, 2345,Doc,Hope,Penelope and Friends of Madeleine. Slowly, slowly catchy monkeys :-)

Night night Anonymouse/Psychopops and your friends. Count your pennies. You'll need them in the years to come, poor souls that you are.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
leigh3 said...

And finally, Anonymouse et al,

The media: a ruthless game, far beyond the amateur antics of you lot of underpaid mechanics. Every time you disrespect the public is a nail in your little coffin...oops...should say coffers.

See you in court. Your treat; you'll pick up the bill eventually :-)

felicity said...

Hiya Leigh

I just had a look at Supertroll's blog - there is another sick perverted rant from her about me and others and guess how many posts she got in response ZERO. Hence she has come on here. Do we want her? Well no, actually Muse, even Psychopops does not want you any more, you are too sick even for its tastes and that is going some!

I wonder if these perverts may have to stop their sick little rants very soon:-)

Viv x

felicity said...

Muse - did you rush off to go and answer yourself and pretend you have some mates! You have had blogs closed down before, havn't you?

Viv x

felicity said...

I am finding this Supertroll character increasingly frightening. In a post on Psychopops blog today it says:


"I know of at least three british men who are paedophiles, living in a small Spanish resort."


~Thank God the police are investigating this sick pervert.

Viv x

felicity said...

Whilst I would not normally dream of posting on Psychopops blog I felt compelled to put the following post on:

felicity said...
Pardon me for interrupting where I know you prefer to talk about me rather than to me but do you not think you should be reporting supertroll to the police as I have done:

"I know of at least three british men who are paedophiles, living in a small Spanish resort."


Did it escape your attention it is admitting to know paedophiles and where they are? You claim to be the protector of children, it does no look like it, more a haven for perverts and paedophiles. Delete this if you like, I will be keeping a copy and passing it on.

Viv x

10 March 2008 02:14