24 Mar 2008

GREAT NEWS FOR MURAT!


MURAT'S ACCUSERS

Jane Tanner changed her statement to say Bundleman was walking towards Murat's property...

Dr Payne, Rachel Oldfield, and Dr Russell O'Brien accused Murat of hanging around immediately after Madeleine's disappearance, contrary to local witness accounts, and returned to PDL in July for a "showdown" with him arranged by police observing the confrontation...good investigative tool!
Dr O'Brien ..missing 9.30 to 10.15 pm



Jane Tanner "saw Bundleman" 9.15 pm, original sketch "eggman"
Claims back in her apartment around
10 pm and not aware of Kate's screams, they have taken her, Madeleine's gone, until Rachel Oldfield knocked her door...right next door...where was Dr O'Brien? Exchanging 14 texts with Gerry McCann?
---------
I see our press are really running with this story of Murat having all of his property returned last Thursday on the instructions of the Prosecutor due to its huge significance at this time, just before the PJ are due to return to re-interview TAPAS. I see Mr Murat is considering sueing newspapers, given even the main suspects Kate and Gerry McCann have extracted half a million from Express Newspapers one can hardly blame him and I wish him every success. He has even found tracking devices fitted to his car, presumably by Metodo 3, continuing to harass him, it must have been truly awful for him, his elderly mother and his girlfriend. Kate and Gerry McCann have created so many victims including Father Panchecho and we should remember this and how they all must have suffered.

Items returned include clothing, shoes and computers. We can rest assured these will have all been minutely examined. by police and FSS. Clearly, no trace of Madeleine has been found on his clothing or in his vehicles or home. If it had, the PJ would not be sending out such a clear signal by returning items, they would be kept to produce in court.
In the McCanns case, it has been announced, the PJ wish Leics Police to seise Kate's diary and Gerry's computer, documents, cuddlecat. This may well have taken place now. The FSS already have the boot lining of the hire car, under lock and key. It is likely they also have many other items already seised, including by Leicester Police. This indicates the reverse to Murat, they want them for an intended court case.

They are also set to interview the Psychologist who worked with Kate in the early stages and Justine McGuiness. This looks pretty terminal for Kate McCann to me. They are clearly wishing to gain further evidence of her state of mind. Evidence of "state of mind" at the relevant time is always highly relevant in homicide cases. It can also be relevant as to what charge the Prosecutor will decide upon. If an intention to kill or cause serious bodily harm can be proved by such evidence a murder charge may be laid. If some lesser state of mind such as recklessness, manslaughter. Any pscyhologist will be bound by professional rules of conduct to give frank and honest evidence to the police. I do not think the McCanns will be able to expect loyalty from Justine McGuinness either. Remember how quickly she retired following them being declared arguidos, with Clarence Mitchell moving into the role, giving up his government post...I wonder was he pushed! I have a feeling Justine is likely to give frank and honest evidence to the police.
Press are of course further confirming PJ are to return on 7 April and the three main witnesses they wish to re-interview are Tanner, O'Brien and Payne who appears to have falsely claimed he saw Madeleine alive at 7 pm, no one else having seen her since 1.30 that day, clearly opening up the possibility Madeleine may have died during the afternoon when no one seems to have seen Kate or Madeleine.
Viv x
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Murat could soon be cleared as Madeleine suspect after police return possessionsLast updated at 13:20pm on 23rd March 2008
Comments

Robert Murat was names as a suspect 11 days after Madeleine went missingRobert Murat hopes to be cleared as a suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance after police returned his computer and other seized possessions.
Public prosecutor Jose Magalhaes e Menezes's ordered detectives to return the items to the 34-year-old expat last week.
Murat was made an "arguido" or formal suspect on 14 May last year, 11 days after Madeleine went missing.
But he believes the return of his possessions is an indication he is set to be cleared of any involvement in the case.
Murat lives with his mother Jenny in Praia da Luz, just 100 yards from the Ocean Club holiday flat where the McCanns were staying when Madeleine vanished shortly before her fourth birthday.
Jenny, 74, said today: "Every single item that the police took has been returned to us.
"Police took Robert's computer and my two computers as well. But we have all three back now.
"Our lawyer was informed by police about the decision and I went to pick everything up from the police station last Thursday.
"Of course we hope it means Robert's arguido status will be lifted shortly.
"But we've had no official confirmation that that is the case and we're not getting too excited."
Mrs Murat has always insisted her son was at home with her on the night Madeleine vanished and Murat has repeatedly denies any involvement.
Read more...
Portuguese police to quiz Tapas Nine in Britain in final bid to solve Madeleine mystery
His lawyer Francisco Pagarete said: "The police received an order from the public prosecutor to give everything back to Robert.
"All his items have been returned. We believe it is another step towards his clearance as a suspect. It's a good sign.
"But we will have to wait and see. There is nothing official saying his status as an arguido is being revoked."
Scroll down for more...

Madeleine, then three, went missing during a family holiday to the Algarve last May
Murat, who speaks fluent Portuguese, worked as an unofficial police interpreter during the early days of the search for Madeleine.
Police brought him in for questioning and searched his home, called Casa Liliana, after a British newspaper reporter told detectives he was acting strangely.
They seized his computer, clothes and other items during a fingertip search of the home and sent material including hairs and earth for analysis.
But reports in Portugal said no link to Madeleine was ever found.
Murat's German girlfriend Michaela Walczuch and her Portuguese husband Luis Antonio were were questioned as witnesses.
Murat's ex-wife Dawn, 42, who lives with their daughter in Norfolk, also told a Sunday newspaper their lives have been destroyed by the connection to the Madeleine investigation.
She said her husband has become a chain-smoking recluse because of his ten-month ordeal.
Dawn said: "I've known Rob for 13 years and he wouldn't hurt a fly. He was a popular, outgoing person before all this. But it has shattered him." "We are living in constant fear.
"It's every parent's nightmare to have their child in the predicament my daughter is in."
Scroll down for more...

Kate and Gerry McCann are both also still 'arguidos' in the case but strongly deny any involvement in their daughter's disappearance
Last week arsonists torched a car belonging to Murat's business associate Sergey Malinka, 22, in Praia da Luz.
The word "Speak" was sprayed in Portuguese on the pavement next to the burnt out wreck.
Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate McCann, both 39-year-old doctors from Rothley, Leics, are also formal suspects.
The deny any involvement in their daughter's disappearance and insist she was abducted.
Portuguese detectives plan to travel to the UK on April 7 to re-interview the seven friends who were dining with the McCanns on the night their daughter went missing.

248 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 248 of 248
LittleGreyCell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LittleGreyCell said...

Bianca,

(By the way, sorry about the removed post above - it was a double posting for some reason).

Thanks for the return rant! Now I feel better!

Yes, I know it's not just here (I've read about 'boat people' being turned away from your shores in the past), but because I live here, and have a franchise (not that there's anyone left to vote for), I feel it very deeply. And I'm ashamed. I'm not represented in my views, and it's a sad fact that I'm not likely to be for the foreseeable future, either.

It's just not the done thing to be compassionate in this day and age - well, not if you command any sort of power.

Last week it was revealed that a civil servant in the UK received over £400,000 compensation for straining his thumb at work, whilst a young soldier who has lost multiple limbs fighting Tony Blair's war received only a fraction of that amount.

And the McCanns 'settling' for over half a million quid because a newspaper wrote stories about them being official suspects in the possible death of their own daughter.

"Ludicrous!" as some people would say.

Don't suppose you want to come and see me under my palm tree, Bianca, since you've probably got access to quite a few yourself?...

:)

ratonthebeam said...

After the Marc Detroux case, and the high-level corruption in both the Government and the Police that came out, I was bloody ashamed to be Belgian, I can tell you; and so were a lot of other Belgian people. The McCann case is still followed very avidly there as people are still raw and very, very angry from Marc Detroux.

Unknown said...

Hi all

Just logged in and firstly wanted to oomment on 2345s post.

There is no comparison between the McCann case and Shannon's.

There was no need for a lengthy investigation of Sharron's abductor before charging him and remanding him in custody. He was caught red-handed with the child after a massive 24 days of holding her a prisoner.

If the McCanns had been caught red-handed with Madeleine's body then I am sure the same would have happened to them but they are an awful lot brighter than this man, hence the need for a lengthy and detailed investigation to obtain a water tight case against them.

In Shannon's case the police are conducting a lengthier investigation into the wider family and it is wrong to make assumptions at this stage. Other than we have had a report in The Times that authorities were considering taking Shannon into care before her abduction which given it is in The Times is capable of belief. My own view is that Shannon was living in less than ideal circumstances but beyond that I think we should wait and see and whether any further charges will follow. Seems to me civil proceedings are more likely to deal with her future living arrangements. I have stated it was unfortunate the social workers did not work with the family to stop it reaching this stage but it may be it was a hopeless situation, we really do not know.

Unknown said...

Hiya Rat

I hope you are OK darling. I am simply astounded these people could accuse YOU of being a racist:

I have just found an example of a racist rant from Rosiepops..all because, it would seem, they are Portuguese as it has to keep referencing. Racists always keep referring to race, dont they! No problem repeatedly trotting out a list of apparent failings of Portuguese Police from a British rag The People, wonder why it does not identify its source!
-------------------

According to some stupid author in a Portuguese rag by a Portuguese journalist Manuel Catarino, Madeleine and the twins were never in that apartment. Oh ok those photos of Madeleine were all figments and so is the video footage of the twins?If the twins were never in that apartment how come all this *alleged* DNA has been found in the block flooring, on the walls and on the curtains? How come if Madelene wasn't there her DNA has supposedly been found in the tyre well of this hire car?Ye Gods what the hell next?Despicable odious man you are Manuel Catarino, I hope you spend your money you have earned off of the back of a missing 4 year old little girl wisely, it may be the last you ever earn before your credibility is shot to pieces.This is what the vilification of the McCann's is now sinking to, just when you think it cannot get any worse - it does.
• Posted by: Rosiepops •

Unknown said...

ROSIEPOPS THE EXTREME RACIST - RATONTHEBEAM YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO ADD THIS ONE TO YOUR COLLECTION ..........UTTERLY SHOCKING AND GROTESQUE....


RAJAYUNUS
02.12.07, 1:33am

GILLIAN GIBBONS
01.12.07, 11:07am

As a British Muslim, i feel the biggest mistake made by Mrs Gibbons was to ridicule Islam in a very primitive Islamic community.. when in Rome etc etc.

Many British Muslims are appalled at the treatment meted out to this kindergarten teacher. The judge could have just admonished her and deported her.

A sentence of 15 day plus deportation is *very fair* but it would have been kinder to remember the advice of Allah.

Peace be with you all.

• Posted by: rajayunus • Report Comment
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You say when in Rome do as the Romans?

So if I enter an Islamic country I should start running through the streets waving a machete around? Or taking people hostage and chopping their heads off?

Maybe I should start a march in a host country and burn their flag and call for all the natives to be killed in the name of Allah?

Or go and hurl a few bombs into a class filed with innocent schoolchildren?

Thanks but no thanks.



• Posted by: Rosiepops • Report Comment

Anonymous said...

Hi Viv and all,

Reading back posts from the last few days.

Had severe internet and phone problems here since sunday morning.

Are there new developments?

Atardi.

Unknown said...

Hiya Atardi and how lovely to hear from you again. Sorry about your communication probs.

~The main development is of course Murat having all his property handed back just ahead of the PJs arrival to re-question the TAPAS.

Sorry this is brief just popping out but back in about half an hour

Viv x

Wizard said...

On a lighter note on the racism debate I just read a poster on
J4MF blog defending the Telegraph article by suggesting as it is not a tabloid it could not be racist. Some of course might argue the right of centre press is by its very nature racist in some form but broadsheets that fall into this category are apparently not.

Anonymous said...

Viv was reading that article,

This is great news for Murat.So he got all his property handed back? Going to read whole article.

Can you or anyone else please tell me why I can't post as Atardi?

Atardi.

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

I’ve just been reading on 3A a comment from a poster. They said if you are a British Citizen and a witness in a court case being heard in Portugal unless you have been charged with something you cannot be forced to appear in court as a witness.

Witnesses cannot be compelled to travel abroad to give evidence. Paul Burrell is currently refusing to testify further at the Diana Inquest and the coroner has no power to make him attend as he lives abroad.

Do you know if the above is true Viv?

ratonthebeam said...

Hi Wizard

I think those circumstances might be different because Paul Burrell lives in America. But people in other EC countries would be covered by a European Arrest Warrant and there have to be really, really, really compelling circumstances before those get refused.

Somebody on the DX used to have a lot of info re EAWs, think it was maybe Lizzy?

Unknown said...

Atardi

I think you would need to make sure you are actually logged in to your google account for your name to automatically appear. Maybe the settings have changed if you had computer problems and you need to log in again?

Wizard

You are asking a difficult question that I would need to research but without doing any research at the moment would briefly comment.

A coroner has different powers to a criminal court determining a crime. Therefore the Coroner did not have the power to order the re-attendance of Burrell. In UK if prosecution witneses refuse to attend to give evidence they can be held in contempt of court and imprisoned and this does happen.

I think it is likely we would have reciprocal arrangements with another EU country to compel witnesses to attend in Portugal for a serious criminal case.

Wizard said...

Rat & Viv, thanks for the info.

Unknown said...

Thanks Wizard

I have ~EU law textbooks - one of them is 1200 pages which I have not looked at for many years! Thanks for sparing me that - I did find EU law a little dry at Uni..

We do not of course have such close co-operation from the States.

Viv x

hope4truth said...

Hello All

Hope you are all well just reading back xxx

Unknown said...

Hiya Rat

It might have been me about European Arrest Warrants - there is a post on here about them. They apply to the criminals themselves, not the witnesses. Basically it means that if one Member State provides reasonable evidence to another that a suspect is required to be handed over then the Member State will just hand them over without the need to go through the formal extradition process. This recently happened in the Italian murder case where Germany, I think it was, simply arrested a suspect who had fled back home and handed him over to the Italian police.

Viv

atardi said...

Hi Viv,

I hope this will be a very nice blue Atardi. Thank you very much. I've have seen you have a new poster.

Unknown said...

Hiya Atardi

I am glad you have got that sorted and are not genuinely blue!

Recently it has been really good to have Bianca join us with some great posts and also one I have not heard from before, who I think is from Germany, Ultraviolet. New posters are always welcome

Viv x

atardi said...

Hope,

Nice to read you again. Daughter back
from Paris.

Viv,

Was reading your comment about Greenslade. Thank you. As a foreigener I don't know where he stands.

Reading about the nasty article in The Telegraph. Have not read all but if it's true I'm ashamed of being a European.

hope4truth said...

Hello Atardi

Glad your PC is working again...

How did she get on in Paris (bet you are glad to have her back safe and well)...

xxx

Unknown said...

Hiya Atardi

Unfortunately, most of our press, including The Telegraph is very right wing. Their views are very nationalist encouraging pride in our sovereignty and identity, "Britishness" as Rosiepops would put it. In pursuit of such beliefs an anti-EU agenda is often pursued and a very unpleasant attitude towards immigration and multi-culturalism.

To people who use this board, I know these views are abhorrent. We feel all human beings are equal and entitled to a place on this earth wherever it may be and where they can be treated with dignity and respect. One of the overarching principles of the EU is the right to free movement of people.

atardi said...

Hey Hope,

You won't beleive it but they came back with the Golden Trophy. The final match between Switzerland and their team.

You can read it on their own site.

Your daughters didn't have to buy lunch today?

Unknown said...

Atardi

How fantastic for your daughter to come back with the Trophy. You must be so proud of her:-)

Hello Hope

How are you?

Viv x

hope4truth said...

Atardi

Oh that is wonderful I will have a look on the site in a bit..

No I bought bread last night but had a late start at work as I was up really late xxx

hope4truth said...

Hey Viv

How are you today???

I am still tiered from last night when I went to bed I had so many things buzzing round my head I could not sleep...

Only have to work tomorrow then having a couple of day's off with my Husband so should recover by Friday...

Did you get my e mail??? xxx

atardi said...

Viv,

We are so proud of her and her team. But you know she is 16 and is now playing 2 years with adult woman. She thinks it was very logic/normal that they won because she thaught the other teams were very bad.

Murat:

Super.

Anonymous said...

Hallo Viv,hope and atardi
Atardi,I am happy for you that your little one is back safe and happy.
Having our children with us,physically safe,emotionally secure and spiritually fulfilled is indeed a blessing and so precious.
Viv, thanks for the articles, I believe Shannon is being taken care of very well and my wish is that this little girl now can carry on in her life in a warm,trusting and loving circle

hope4truth said...

Hi Southerncross

Hope you are well???

I think you are right about Shannon we dont know what is going on but while they find out she is being looked after. At last the child comes first...

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Hiya Hope,
I agree ,the most important aspect in all of these cases is that the child comes first.
Their needs,vulnerability and feelings of security are not luxuries,they deserve the satisfaction of these basic needs.Hope you are well too :)

hope4truth said...

Goodnight All

I am off before I am still sitting here at 3am...

Take care xxx

Unknown said...

Hello Southerncross

Good to hear from you. As you say in Shannon's case we know her abductor is behind bars and most importantly Shannon's welfare is paramount and she has been settled with caring foster parents. That is good news that she is safe and being well protected from harm.

Hope

Nite nite darling and take care

Viv x

docmac said...

Hi Viv

Just a brief post as I can't stick around right at the minute. It must be made clear that Shannon ELECTED to remain in care. This was reported in the Mail and one other paper (I think it may have been the Telegraph or the Times). This case is far from settled.

I have answered your mail.

Anonymous said...

Stupid the McCann's requested that the PJ interview the psychologist.

You are a joke. Murat is as guilty as hell and is in this up to his neck ask Docmac.

Unknown said...

Hiya Doc

I have not seen a report saying that but certainly with a child of 9 years social workers would take her wishes into account when determining her future accommodation. If she was adamant for example, her step father was violent towards her and she did not want to go back, she obviously would not be forced to do so.

I certainly did not mean to imply this case is settled, far from it, it is still being investigated by police and social services and foster care is a temporary measure. If there are formal care proceedings these usually take a long time, and so will the criminal case.

Thanks I got your email - very interesting indeed x
Viv x

Anonymous said...

Believe me or not I don't care. Last week I told Alsabella about the libel case before it appeared in the newspaper.

Don't say you have not been told.

Unknown said...

Anon

I think it is very helpful the police have decided to interview the psychologist and Justice McGuiness. It is an essential part of the police case to determine the mental health of Kate McCann at the relevant time. These interviews will assist them in that process.

You may believe Muruat is guilty as hell, clearly, on the basis of the evidence, the police do not agree. No forensic evidence of Madeleine has been found on his clothing or computers or indeed any evidence of paedophilia either. He is a normal man, in the wrong place at the wrong time, wrongly accused by the McCanns friends.

*********If you are abusive your posts will be removed********

********Please do not insult other posters.********

Chrissie Nyssen said...

Is this true? This little girl chose to remain in care? If so, her home life must have been awful, poor little thing.

Tonight here we have a woman in jail who is a suspect in an abuse case of her twelve children.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/968326.html

Unknown said...

Anon

Do you have powerful dreams where you are able to foresee all these things before they actually happen?

Do you make a habit of interfering in what other people choose to do with their lives?

docmac said...

Viv

Told you I'd have to get up! Just google "shannon matthews voluntary care". Don't use the inverted commas of course. Won't be back tonight.

Hello Ultraviolet, welcome. Always nice to see new faces :-)

Unknown said...

Hello Ultraviolet

Do you come from Jerusalem then - this woman sounds very perverted. Good job she is in jail! Best place for her, I am sure.

Viv x

Hiya Doc

I will google away!

x

Chrissie Nyssen said...

I am not from Jerusalem, I am in the UK but my family are in Tel Aviv and Haifa.

Unknown said...

Hiya Doc

These articles state that Shannon is currently in care on a voluntary basis. This means that her mother has agreed she should remain in care and will not seek to oppose it.Obtaining a formal care order can take a long time and this is what happens in the interim. In such cases where an Emergency Protection Order has first been obtained there would be little point in Karen seeking to oppose it. It does not state that it is Shannon herself who has volunteered to be kept in care although she will no doubt have been consulted with regards to the decision. It is far more a question of social workers and police saying to the parent, now this is the way it is going to be whilst we fully investigate this matter. There is nothing parents can do about this.


Viv x

Unknown said...

Thanks for that Ultra, I did think it was a little odd that you said "we" have a case of a mum in custody, when the mum in question is in Jerusalem, not UK!

Viv x

Chrissie Nyssen said...

Sorry, it is late and I am making silly mistakes. Obviously I have an interest in the Israeli news, and I saw this article. It is the second of its type recently, there was also a father who abused his daughter for 9 years, in Court this week. The Israeli courts and Social Welfare Ministry take such things very seriously. If children are left by themselves and neglected they are removed to special Emergency Centers, and the parents questioned.

docmac said...

Viv, I respectfully disagree. From the Daily Mail, 22nd March:

Family to spend Easter without Shannon as she opts to stay with social workers
Last updated at 11:14am on 22nd March 2008


The family of Shannon Matthews were today facing the agony of not having her back home for Easter.

As her siblings enjoy Easter eggs and the school holidays, the nine-year-old has still not been reunited with her family and friends back in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire.

Shannon is now in the care of Kirklees Family Services on a voluntary basis and it is thought that she will not be going home for some time.

Her mother Karen, 32, stepfather Craig Meehan, 22, and siblings Tony, 11, Cameron, five, and Courtney, two, will have to try to enjoy Easter without her.

Unknown said...

Doc,

I have been working in this field most of my adult life and know both the law and the procedure.

It is only the Daily Mail who are reporting it was Shannon's decision. She is not the decision maker Social Services are and anything to do with a child in child care procedures is strictly confidential.

Where there is an ongoing investigation that may involve abuse by the parents serious enough to warrant criminal proceedings, no action is taken on formal care proceedings until those criminal proceedings have been investigated and or prosecuted. In the interim the parents are asked to sign an agreement voluntarily allowing SSD to take over care and control of the child. They are told that if agreement is not forthcoming an Interim Care Order will be applied for. In this case an initial Emergency Protection Order was obtained. There would be simply no point in Karen seeking to insist on having Shannon back, she would not have got her.

I obviously cannot give details of individual cases but this is standard procedure. Criminal proceedings are always dealt with first. That is what is so odd about the McCanns libel action and no doubt explains why they were so keen to achieve a settlement of it.

Viv x

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