28 Mar 2008

HOGAN TO FACE RE-TRIAL FOR UNLAWFUL KILLING OF HIS SON

When hearing the judgment of the Greek Court in this case that this man was not guilty of any unlawful act because he was insane after just a one and a half day hearing, I did feel very shocked and felt immense sorrow for the mother.

British subjects who kill abroad are subject to our own jurisdiction to try them for those acts. What is unual here is that he has already been tried abroad but certainly, on the basis of our own law this was a mistrial. It is unheard of in UK to have such a short hearing into such a serious case without hearing properly from live witnesses.

At the Coroner's inquest in the UK the Coroner has now ruled that he pushed the children off and that was an unlawful act. He was arguing with his wife and from the witness account placed the children in front of the guard rail and then moved forward again and pushed them off. This sounds like deliberate murder to me. If he was psychotic, and I am not clear that he was, as opposed to be in a furious rage where he thought he would punish the wife in the most macabre way, then under UK law he would have been entitled to the defence of "dimished responsibility" to the charge of murder, on the basis that he was so ill at the time, he just did not understand the nature and quality of his act. However, this would not mean that he was "not guilty". It would mean instead that he would be guilty of manslaughter because diminished responsibility merely reduced the culpability of the accused, it does not say there was no unlawful act. Plainly there was. This would then entitle him to treatment in a secure hospital prior to serving the remainder of his sentence in prison. Unlike murder where the offender gets an automatic life sentence, the sentence would be considered on the basis of the danger he presented, therefore given the circumstances he would probably still have received a life sentence and be kept in custdody until the risk he presented was considered to be substantially reduced.

It is simply not reasonable that a man who has committed such a serious offence simply gets a few months psychiatric treatment and is then allowed home. No wonder this woman feels that justice has not been secured and that he is still a danger, he is!

It seems that we may now persuade the Greek authorities that this was a mistrial or if not, then we could place him on trial in the UK. I applaud the Coroner for making an appropriate judgment here that must give some satisfaction to this poor woman who may continue to feel threatened herself by him, given what he did to her children.

Of application to the McCann case, of course it confirms that even if either of the McCanns were ultimately found to be suffering from mental illness or serious pscyhopathic disorder this would not enable them to just escape scott free with nothing more than psychiatric treatment. Furthermore, at any time, UK authorities could elect to try them here, although as a matter of courtesy to Portugal will enable them to prosecute, should they so wish.

I hope the forum can remain a pleasant place for posters who genuinely wish to post on topic and not abuse others posters, or indeed myself, PLEASE.

Viv x



Balcony-death father could face trial again for murderBy DAN NEWLING - More by this author » Last updated at 20:47pm on 27th March 2008
Comments (52) The father who pushed his six-year-old son to his death from a fourth-floor balcony could be tried again for murder after his ex-wife declared that "justice has so far not been done".
As an inquest yesterday found that John Hogan "unlawfully killed" his son Liam in Crete, British police put in motion the legal moves that could see him face a retrial.
Officers have sent a file to the Crown Prosecution Service, where it will be reviewed to see if a case could be brought based on the testimony of previouslyunheard witnesses.

The Hogan family: New eye witnesses claimed John Hogan (far left) actually threw his son Liam (centre) and daughter Mia off the balcony after a row with his wife Natasha
One told the Bristol inquest into Liam's death she saw 33-year- old Hogan deliberately push his son from the hotel balcony 50ft up. The testimony was not heard at the Greek murder trial where Hogan was found not guilty after claiming to have been suffering from "an earthquake of insanity".
After the inquest Liam's mother Natasha Visser, who was Hogan's wife at the time her son died but who has since remarried, bitterly criticised the Greek legal system's failure to hold her former husband to account.
Shuddering with emotion, she described how she will remain haunted by the three hitherto-unknown British witnesses' descriptions of her son falling to his death.
Mrs Visser, 35, who claims that Hogan remains dangerous, added: "The Greek court made little attempt to establish the facts surrounding Liam's death and did not even call known eyewitnesses.

Distraught: Natasha Hogan said her life has been wrecked by her ex-husband John
"We understand that the decision about what happens next legally is in the hands of the English legal system.
"We can only trust that they will re- examine the evidence as a whole and make a decision that will protect John from himself and others."
She went on: "I cannot describe the pain I feel hearing that John had pushed his children off the balcony . . . walking away and then returning to push them.
"The image of the children looking like they were trying to reach out to each other will haunt me and my family for ever."
Hogan, from Bradley Stoke, near Bristol, turned killer during an argument with his then-wife on holiday in August 2006.
The former floor-tiler threw his two-year-old daughter Mia and Liam from the balcony before jumping himself. Mia survived.
Scroll down for more ...

Witnesses Iain and Sarah Davidson leave the Hogan inquest yesterday. Sarah broke down in tears as she recounted seeing the three plunge to the ground.
He told his trial he could not remember the incident. However Sarah Davidson, 38, who was on holiday in Crete, told the inquest: "I saw two children standing on the balcony on top of a wall. They were in front of the metal rail guard.
"The male came forward in between the two children and pushed them off."
At his trial, which lasted a day and a half, Hogan was declared to have been insane and legally incapable of being found guilty of murder or attempted murder.
Yesterday coroner Paul Forrest fell short of criticising the Greek verdict but said the trial did not have all the evidence in front of it.
He said Hogan's "incapability of understanding" was "irrelevant", adding: "The facts were abundantly clear in that the children were seen to be pushed off the balcony - objectively an unlawful act."


Liam Hogan died of severe head injuries after plunging from the fourth floor of a Crete hotel with his father, John
The Crown Prosecution Service said if Hogan were re-tried in Britain, it would be the first time a British citizen has been tried for a second time when the original court case took place abroad.
The Daily Mail understands that any retrial is more likely to happen in Greece, where the supreme court has the power to declare the original a mistrial.
Hogan remains in a secure psychiatric hospital in Greece but could be allowed to return to Britain a free man within months. That could complicate efforts by Mrs Visser's supporters to force a Greek retrial.
Hogan's family said he had been acquitted in relation to Liam's death because at the time "he was suffering from a psychotic condition such that he neither knew nor understood the nature and consequences of his actions".

519 comments:

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dylan said...

Hello Hope.

Pleased you have had a nice day. It has been drizzly and grey here. Spring seems like eons away.

Daughter is with her boyfriend, littlest on her way to Paris and I took my eldest for a game of pool. He beat me 3-1. That's the thanks i get for the pain of giving birth!! Ungrateful lad!

What have you been up to? Big question - have you at least had a sniff at any chocolate today? ;)

xxx

Anonymous said...

Hope4Truth -

Glad to read you are well and that you liked my posts. Thanks! :-)

I am fine and very much enjoying tonight's blog (even though it's 4:30 in the morning here, LOL!).

Hope I can stay awake a bit longer!

hope4truth said...

Dyl

Hello kids hey so unfair when they get better than you!!!!!!

I have had two cadbury creme eggs today and a frys turkish delight cutting down gently) diet amnesty def starts on Monday or my dressing gown will not shut at the front LOL xxx

dylan said...

Hello Docmac.

Hope you are well but don't want to hear how lovely the weather is in your neck of the woods! I never asked but can you say why Centurion Park isn't your "cup of tea"? Hubby doesn't know and i have never been. I thought maybe it was a troubled area??

xx

hope4truth said...

Bianca

I take it you have Saturday off???

I thought I was cool by staying up until 1.00 LOL

Have you any plans for the weekend xxx

Anonymous said...

Hope4Truth/Dylan -

As a chocoholic, that's what I find great about Easter, i.e., there is always guaranteed to be some chocolate in the fridge for at least a fortnight afterward! You don't have to think about it .. it's just there!

What a junkie I am!

Anonymous said...

HOPE - My sister plays in a band and I will be seeing her play tomorrow night - luckily, late!

I will sleep in tomorrow but hubby will be up to run the house and mind our child. I know how slack I must seem, but we swap and change hours like this a lot! I'll prob be up around lunch-time tomorrow :-)

dylan said...

OOh, Fry's Turkish Delight! Now there's a blast from the past! I used to love it.

I have had to abstain from chocolate for other reasons. I only have to look at it and i am covered in spots. I wouldn't mind, of course, if i had the wrinkle-free teenage skin to go with it!

Yes, losing to my son is very unfair. In fact, he beats me hands down at everything. I'm starting cricket soon as i have found a ladies team. I see my chances are good at being better at him at something! (note to self - must learn how to throw overarm)
He is forecast straight As at every subject and already has an A at astronomy, science and maths. I left school with a mere scrape at a few GCSEs. But then, we all want the best for our children & i am very happy for him that he hasn't followed his mum!

Going for a bit now. Son is challenging me to a game of crib before his dad collects him. Don't need a crystal ball to predict the result!!!

Back later,

Dylan xxx

hope4truth said...

Bianca

That is very true never looked at it like that but the way I am going I will be lucky if the chocolate lasts a week LOL x

hope4truth said...

Dyl

That is one clever lad you have (good luck at crib) xxx

docmac said...

Hi Dyl

Pretoria is quite a pretty place, especially when the jacarandas are in bloom - there are thousands of them. It's just that it's boring, for me anyway. Not much to do at weekends except go to the nearest dam or the mall, or get drunk. That seems to be what they do anyway.

No mountains, no beaches, no waterfront, no wine route, no penguins, no whales or dolphins etc. Not my cup of tea.

Anonymous said...

Dylan,

I love Opus, a star he is indeed. It is so good to put a face to name.

dylan said...

Hi Bianca,

That is precisely my problem. The bloody stuff is always there begging me to eat it!!

How will your antipodean autumn be? Will it be mild or hot? Not sure what latitude you live at but i know i'll be jealous :)

hope4truth said...

Bianca

Sounds like you will have a good day tomorrow (well after lunch) enjoy...

I am just off out for dinner so hope to catch you soon xxx

See everyone else later xxx

Anonymous said...

Hope4You .. see you later (I'll prob have crashed before you get back, LOL!) Enjoy your dinner :-)

Dylan, our autumn has been uncharacteristically hot. It's hot, even by Australian standards! There's a good side, i.e., the bright, uplifting sunshine, but the down-side is not really getting a break from the relentless heat of summer! Still, Sydney (where I live) is beautiful to look at, great restaurants, and lots of tourist attractions. Personally though, I wouldn't mind visiting Europe!

Well, I look at it this way, if there's going to be a holiday devoted to eating chocolate (not meaning to disrespect the religious side), then who am I to question it? LOL ..

Anonymous said...

Reading back there's been a lot of different opinions, as usual, of what happened to Madeleine on that dreadful night. I have dismissed the abduction theory because I hardly think there was the time or opportunity for someone to get into the apartment and run off with Madeleine without waking the twins and with Madeleine crying her eyes out! Also bearing in mind the huge reward money on offer for her safe return, I'm sure that someone would have turned in whoever did it and claimed the money before now. The criminal world act very quickly in finding out where they can lay their hands on a fortune! They wouldn't leave any stone unturned to find the perpetrator, hand him over and claim the reward. However, there is I suppose still the possibility the poor little mite was abducted, abused, and then her body got rid of quickly which, frankly, doesn't bear thinking about.

I did think it at one time, due to the Exeter connection with Robert Murat, that it may have been an arranged abduction for Madeleine to go to a safe home somewhere; I only thought this because the McCanns seemed not to be completely shattered throughout all this, finding time to turn themselves into celebrity status almost overnight,behaving as if they know she is safe. However, Murat seems to be out of the scenario now, so I think that theory is out of the window too.

I have a hunch that poor little Madeleine got up to look for her parents (remember they were out with their friends until midnight one night according to one of the neighbours and the children were crying - how sad is that!!), that she fell and had a fatal accident. If that is the case then the Tapas 9 would have to make up a story that Madeleine was abducted in order not to put their lucrative careers in jeopardy. The forensic evidence bears out this story so I think that is the most likely one.

All theories; none of us know yet and I sometimes wonder if we ever will! This case will make history and lots of money for the McCanns, and that only, so far, is a true fact!!

Anonymous said...

Bianca -

I have two sisters, numerous nieces and nephews living in Oz! My niece who lives in London just came back from Sydney and just loves it. My sisters live in Brisbane. We hope to get there in the not too distant future again - we really enjoy all the barbecues and friendly people too. Great country and no wonder many people decide to emigrate there!

We are on the Costa Blanca and love it too - the Spanish way of life is just fantastic - I have never regretted selling up and coming here to live! Lovely beaches, very reasonable cost of living, although getting dearer, and very healthy climate. What more could you want?

Anonymous said...

Hi Nancy,

Yes, Australia is a beautiful country! So glad your family enjoy it here. I've always had lots of English friends too, in fact, my best friend since Primary School is from Brighton. Same with my dad - his best friend of over 40 years is also English. I think something about the laid-back, eccentric bent in the English really appeals to us both - Anglophiles that we are! :-)

Wow, sounds like your life on Costa Blanca is ideal! Being half Italian, I am determined to get to Southern Europe some time soon :-)

Anonymous said...

Nancy, you are so correct! The only thing we know for sure so far about this case, is that the McCanns continue to line their pockets with the proceedings - first, using the money from the fund to pay off their mortgage, and now, suing the Daily Express for over a million dollars! (500,000 pounds). Considering that if Maddy WAS abducted, it is all down their neglect, or if she was killed, it was also likely because of their negligence, the whole thing just seems so tasteless!

Anonymous said...

Goodnight all, really enjoyed tonight's blog (or in my case, today's blog!).

Take care,

Bianca xoxo

Unknown said...

Bianca

Goodnight darling and thanks for a really fantastic contribution to the blog. I am sure others will agree you have been a great read, although I cannot keep up with you, and sometimes cannot stop laughing at you either!

Luv Viv x

Unknown said...

Nancy hi!

Did you notice the strange thing about the reward monies and I remember keep thinking it at the time..why are the McCanns not even mentioning it?

All those speeches they gave and never recall them mentioning it once. Now if that was my child and JK Rowling etc had promised a small fortune I would have just kept on and on about the reward. Even people who lose pets place a great deal of store on offering a reward to try and get them back dont they? Very odd..

Unknown said...

What was it they could have been afraid of about publicising the reward monies on offer..holidaymakers from PDL getting in touch with information they just DID NOT want people to hear about what might have happened to Madeleine. IMO this was very guilty behaviour.

A bit like the information line to Metodo 3 rather than just telling people to ring the police. That way the information could be filtered..Would a couple who had their child abducted really wish to deflect calls AWAY from the Police?? Surely not! This was giving the impression of doing something but plainly not what a normal law abiding parent would have done who genuinely wanted information about what happened to their little girl.

What I found the most suspicious from the outset though was ringing all their friends and relatives telling them a predator broke in and took Maddie jemmying the window and damaging the shutters. Mark Warner quite quickly announced there was no such damage, well they would, they would not wish to think children were simply not safe at their resort. So how did the McCanns respond to that...by changing their story completely and claiming they left the door open. Now I can believe in them leaving them home alone, but not leaving the door open as well..what about all their material possessions that they clearly do care about..everything that money can get them..their sole motivation from the outset.

I recall Rosiepops on the DE several months ago. We were asking well why did the McCanns rush to trademark her image? The amazing response. Well all this money was pouring in and the McCanns wanted to make sure it all went to the Fund. They did not want the same thing happening as with Princess Diana's Fund...Maddie dolls and other people being able to cash in.

So it seemed to me this was a big slip in letting us know the thinking behind this campaign. It was going to be massive, all those videos on Youtube etc with sickly music and pictures of beautiful little Madeleine, they set their sights on a fund worth millions, just like Diana's and Kate and Gerry wanted all the money, the only people who were going to cash in, were them..Many hostile comments from Clarence Mitchell have confirmed this. His fury over an agency offering to provide Maddie look alikes from the proposed McCanns the movie, Gerry was furious apparently the money would not be going to the fund.. to support him and Kate. They are simply detestable IMO.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Did anyone else see tonights ONE programme on BBC1 showing the scent detecting properties of dogs. The one appearing is used in fire investigation to detect the odour of flamable liquids. In the demonstration the dog found a cotton bud (suitably perfumed) in the middle of a field in about one and a half minutes.

Anyone wishing to this programme should be able to pick in up on BBC iPlayer during the next 7 days.

Wizard said...

I was just reading that Spitting Image is returning to ITV on Sunday nights. Instead of the latex caricatures they are now computer animated.

I don’t know whether it’s true but I was told many years ago that puppets were allowed to get away with, on occasions, very libellous statements, because they were “puppets” similar to satirical cartoons in newspapers.

If this was true, considering the threats of libel being bandied about, I see why Opus has suddenly started writing posts – master stoke. Apologies in advance for calling Opus a puppet.

Rori Hegarty said...

VIv, have always thought if there was such a reward up for grabs someone would have claimed it , some would sell their grannies for less. Someone has started a very interesting thread on the 3a , somthing along the lines of ,, if kate and gerry had emloyed a babysitter and the babysitter had gone on the lash with friends ,kate and gerry return to find one of the children gone what would the response be ?

Rori Hegarty said...

Ha ha wizard, you think opus will need an agent ??

hope4truth said...

Isis

That is an intresting thread if it had happend the babysitter would have been hung out to dry and would be portrayed in all the papers as the most evil person in history. If there was other evidnce in the apartment to sugest foul play people would be screaming for the evil scum bag to tell the truth for the sake of her poor family...

When you look at it this way it is why I feel something is very very wrong.

If the Tapas dont answer every question put to them in an honest way then it will IMHO show they are lying. If I was there and thought she had been taken I would answer every question as if she had been taken one of my answers may unlock the truth and isnt that what everyone wants?

xxx

Wizard said...

Isis, I expect he would need an agent.

Best Regards – Sooty

Rori Hegarty said...

Hope it is an interesting thread . Someone in that tapas group knows more than the y are telling as regards the night of may 3rd,and i hope out of respect to madeleine they can find it in their hearts to tell the truth. I think the pj when they do start the questioning will be in posession of more mobile phone records than they previously had.

Anonymous said...

Wizard,

An interesting theory. Puppets can get away with very libellous statements because they are puppets. That must be the philosophy the pro's work to. As some of their comments are very libellous, they must think they are untouchable cos puppets they are, it is patently obvious someone has their hand up their backside working their lips.

Rori Hegarty said...

Wizard, ireland are being represented in the eurovision by a turkey puppet, was thinking of asking opus would he fancy a duet !!

Wizard said...

Ah Peter – Peter Rabbit – there is definitely a trend here.

Wizard said...

Very droll Anon.

Regards Sooty

Wizard said...

Isis,
Opus the penguin and the scintillating Irish Turkey – a new all singing and dancing sensation –Waddle and Gobble.

Anonymous said...

Viv, Docmac et al,

I think the current "annonymous" is Gerry.

Hi Gerry, just one question for you : is you are so convinced that Madeline is alive and well and will be found, why did yourself and Kate participate in a documentary to mark the first anniversary of her disappearance? How did you know she'd still be missing?

Is there something you're not telling us?

hope4truth said...

Isis

If something did happen and any of them know about it or have become suspicious about it they must tell the truth.

If they are hiding something (cant think what maybe they did not bother checking on the children???) they need to tell the truth it could not only remove all suspicion from her parents it may also provide more evidence and point towards an abductor.

If she was killed and someone knows they will be eaten alive with guilt they all have families and the guilt will break their lives apart.

A 3 year old child deserves the truth what ever it is because if she was not abducted each of these people will live the rest of their lives looking over their sholders wondering when she will be found or if one of the 9 will crack and tell all in the future.

This tragic case needs to be fully investigated with the truth because if it is not based on truth they may be enjoying their grandchilds birthday in the future when there is a knock on the door and the police are there to arrest them for perverting the course of justice and all this tragedy will start all over again.

The Truth what ever it is needs to be told for all their sakes better now than worry about it for the next 20 years what kind of life will that be?

If Kate had answered all her questions and Madeleine was taken she may not be a suspect now.

Wizard said...

Ah Ha - libel, defamation Peter Rabbit.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Wizard said...

Peter Rabbit Ah… libel, defamation – a wally indeed, sue the rabbit.

2345 said...

Felicity,

Are British politicians intervening and/or assisting Mr Hogan ?

Anonymous said...

From Joanas blog, translated from 24 horas:

28 Março, 2008

Paulo Rebelo and two inspectors are going to sit into the interrogations of the McCanns' friends


PJ is going to England on the 7th of April

Finally, the rogatory letter that was sent by the Portuguese authorities will be carried out. And with the PJ watching everything

They can leave! At 11 a.m. yesterday, according to what 24Horas was able to establish, Guilhermino Encarnação, the director of the Judiciary Police in Faro, who leads the investigations into the Maddie case, has received a green light from the national director of PJ, Alipio Ribeiro, to send a team into Leicester, England.

Paulo Rebelo, who is responsible for the diligences in the process, will lead the team that will fly to the United Kingdom on the 7th of April. The purpose is to watch the fulfilment of the rogatory letter by the British authorities, which will interrogate - there are more than one hundred questions - the seven friends with whom the McCanns had dinner on the day that their daughter disappeared.

The couple themselves, although they can refuse to make any statements, under the arguido status, may be summoned again into giving clarifications, if any relevant evidence appears that incriminates them.

Crucial stage

"We're at a crucial stage of the process. There are clear contradictions in the depositions that were given by the McCanns and by the friends with whom they dined at the Tapas Bar on May 3. The English police is going to hear all the participants again and to confront them with the questions that were elaborated by the Portuguese Public Ministery. A lot has to be clarified. Following the result of these interrogations, we will re-evaluate whether there is a need to hear the child's parents again, or not", a source that is connected to the process has explained to 24Horas.

New statements?

The PJ's team that will travel into Her Majesty's land will be constituted by three elements: Paulo Rebelo and two chief inspectors that had already travelled to Great Britain when the results of the DNA lab tests from Birmingham were collected.

"There are two witnesses that manifested the intent to change the depositions that they made on the days that followed the disappearance of the child. We want to understand how far these new statements may - or may not - change the direction of the investigations. But only by being present at the interrogations can we make a more realistic analysis of the feelings of the witnesses, and if they are telling the truth", said a source at the court in Portimão, where the process is located.

All the diligences about this case are being tutored by judicial magistrate Pedro Frias and directed by the Public Prosecutor Magalhães e Menezes.

Wizard said...

By Peter, go back and play with the others where you obviously left your sense of humour.

Anonymous said...

Supertroll,

Gosh, I've hit a nerve eh?

Anonymous said...

Penelope1/Viv

Your retarded theories are your downfall. Nice try.

Where is plainwaters?

LittleGreyCell said...

Supertroll,

If many of us are wallys for disagreeing with you, what name would you give to people who misuse apostrophes?

As in "wally's". (See you own post above).

Is this not a wallyish thing to do??

Or does this make you super intelligent, Supertroll?

Best wishes,

Where's Wally X

Rori Hegarty said...

hope, i would like to hear what diane webster has to say. She never left the table when kate raised the alarm. Jane tanner was back in 5b next door to mc canns at tennish, by her own adnission and yet heard nothing as kate discovered madeleine gone. If Kate left the table to check and jt was not at the table would kate have not banged on her door to see if madeleine was there or if jt had heard anything

OpusThePenguin said...

Did someone mention Sooty?

Anonymous said...

Supertroll,

Sorry to disappoint but Viv and I are not the same person.

Now, which member of the McCann family are you?

Unknown said...

Opus

Be careful little one, even birds are not sacred, Nanday even got threatened with a brick x

Cláudia said...

Hey, ladies and gentlemen (if any male is around)! How are you all? What's new?

hope4truth said...

Isis

One of the things (well one of many) that was odd was why they did not assume she had walked off somewhere looking for them.

If one of my daughters was not where I had left them I would be in a blind panic searching for them I am sure in my mind I would be thinking she has been taken but I would also be trying to convince myself that the next bush I looked behind or next place I looked and I dont know how long I would go on looking either...

I guess we will have to wait and see what is said it is so very sad x

Anonymous said...

Hi Viv,

Good to see you're back. Thanks for your comments on my earlier post.

Hopefully justice will be done. X

Wizard said...

I think you have a point Isis, Jane Tanner said she returned to her apartment at about 9.50pm to look after her sick daughter. Kate would have seen her go before following her back to her own apartment; therefore, she knew she was in. Why didn’t she call to Jane to help her find Madeleine or ask her to sit with the twins why she rang back to the Tapis Bar to get Gerry. O’Brien arrived back at the Tapis bar at 10.15pm so he would have been in apartment 5B when Kate started shouting. They both apparently did not hear anything – very strange.

hope4truth said...

LGC

How are you feeling???

I have just bought a copy of Private Eye I havent read it for years and my Husband said "why did you buy that"? and he has been sat reading it for the last hour laughing (so now I think he knows why I bought it!!!!!)...

Maybe if I am lucky I may get to read it later (it is your fault you mentioned it again earlier)...

xxx

Rori Hegarty said...

wizard, they are two big questions for me....

Unknown said...

Hiya Penelope

I have been back for a while having a read and playing now you see it now you dont with Peter/Supertroll/Christabel et al (we know all the pseudonyms but there are an awful lot)

This thing is very good at projecting it sick behaviour on to others

Anonymous said...

If there is no evidence as the McC's stated in the McEXPRESS then what if M got up let herself out and decided to go and play at the seaside. The beach is a dangerous place for a child, she could easily have been swept out by the sea. Where does the blame lie?

Unknown said...

Hiya Hope

I have not seen Private Eye for years either but recall it was pretty good. How mean of them not to let us read it online!

Rori Hegarty said...

hope, i dont know but i would have assumed thet if the doors were unlocked she may have wandered off to look for her parents, and like you would have said the next bush i look behind il find her . Its all very strange.

Rori Hegarty said...

HI claudia, nice to "see" you, hope your well.

Unknown said...

It is reported the British dogs smelt the same trail of death down to the beach the S African investigator tracked, Kruger or something I think his name is (not good on names!). He came to help the McCanns but ....(!) Suddenly they did not want to be bothered with him. I believe that is where she was initially buried...on the beach somewhere. The Irish couple have given a statement to the PJ, I believe they saw a man carrying a child down towards the beach..

Wizard said...

Opus,
No one mentioned Sooty he’s been 'Swept' under the carpet.

Anonymous said...

Hi Viv,

Though I of course enjoy your blog and the discussions on this case, in many ways I just wish it would all hurry up and reach a conclusion.

Viv/Isis

If the McCanns were to be charged, do you have any idea what the timeline would be between them being charged and a trial starting? I imagine any trial woud be a lengthy affair (lots of lolly in the Fund and no doubt their lawyers want to get their hands on it).

Would there be separate hearings for possible fraud (Fund) charges and the bullying and intimidation of M3, acting on their behalf?

Cláudia said...

Hello, Isis! Great to 'see' you too! :-) I'm fine, thanks. Hope today has been a better day.
xxxx

Unknown said...

Hiya Claudia

How are you darling?

What do you think of the report few posts back from 24 Horas?

I recall Alsabella pointing out they are not to be trusted, links to ~American media, Pro-McCann.

I do not seem to be able to get reports from Correio de Manha.

Apart from 24 Horas is there a news blackout in Portugal? I think Clarence is briefing 24 Horas, what do you think?

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv or is it Penelope??? LOL

Have you had a nice day???

xxx

Rori Hegarty said...

Claudia, it has been a great day today thanks. Thanks for your kind wishes yesterday too:)

hope4truth said...

Hello Claudia x

ta ra said...

Boa noite Portugal. Times tells all :-) y nos chicas Alsabella y Claudia: gracias. Doh! My poor Spanish again.

2345: have faith. This is not over until it's over - and it is not over yet. Facts. Figures. Modern technology. Old methods. These things persist, and insist :-), however long it takes, yes? Frustration is a temporary discomfort.

Dear Viv: criminal court, libel court, whatever it takes. On the DE, I did bang on about libel, and I still think libel court will hear the sorry case of missing Maddie in the future, regardless of whether criminals get their day before M'luds.

Hey BIANCA. Nice to see you.

Ta ra, darlings.
Justice for Madeleine Beth McCann, however long it takes, and every child, in time. Perseverance, and time.

Unknown said...

Hiya Penelope

Maybe Claudia could give you a better idea, but I would have thought charges by September and trial to commence by middle of 2009 but it is really very hard to say.

I do not think the Portuguese go in for really short trials like the amazing cut and dried affair in Greece. I gather they are pretty lengthy and I can imagine there will be a vast amount of evidence to be heard. I think I read there are stages all the way through for the defendants to try and challenge the case and get it thrown out - quite favourable to defendants, more so, it seems to me than in UK. A barrister remarked some time ago, pity we cannot have the trial here! I think it was in The Times.

I think there could well ba a separate hearing afterwards to deal with fraud /false sightings etc. which Interpol were reported to be investigating. It could certainly be argued if they tried to bring the whole lot on for one trial it would make it overly cumbersome and complex, these are really ancillary matters to the main crimes alleged which I would have thought they would want to get out the way first and get them in custody.

Cláudia said...

You're welcome, Isis! :-)

Viv, if 24 Horas is being briefed by CM he must be working for the enemy, darling! lolol No, there's no news blackout here at all, Viv. Only other news to report. Mari Luz has been the most relevant piece of news here for the last couple of days. However, I've just seen on TV that a PJ team is to fly to the UK. I know we've heard this before, but not on any of our national tv channels.
I'm fine, thanks, hun. Hope you're ok too! :-)

Ana said...

Hello Viv,

Long time since my last post, I hope every thing goes well with you and you family…


I have been reading de pros blog and in few occasions, I felt the need to express my say concerning my police and my country, course that those creatures could not deal with that and start to insult me, not that I care, but when those creatures come here I starting telling lies about what I have told ….well that makes me very angry .

.

I just want to tell Bianca the follow:

Bianca: thank you very much for your support

Calcite51 wrote:

“Also told Bianca I thought Ana was a sicko - Bianca defended her - I asked her if it was 'normal' to have a picture of an execution. Told her if she replied yes, then she and Ana would be sickos. Also, told Bianca that she was NOT here to debate but to disrupt just like I was doing on their site.”

I never ever have post a picture of an execution; I don’t support executions, never did and never ever will. Those creatures are layers and don’t support a different opinion or a different point of view.
Then accuse me of being alsabella, later Claudia, I wish I could spell as well as they do , my English is very bad , but I am sure i speak English much better than those creatures speak Portuguese.
The latest is that I am arepa , I don’t know who she/he is …
I told to those creatures that my name is Ana and Ana is my real name, I don’t come to blogs under another name, I don’t need to do that, i only speak the true, even if the creatures don’t like it .


Viv, sorry if this has cause any problem in you blog, it was not my intend :(
Thank you for let us tell our say …


Boa noite

Ana

Unknown said...

Hiya Isis, Hope and Leigh,

Great to see you all. Yes I have had a lovely day today, exactly 34 years since my gorgeous first son was born. Went up to see him this afteroon and took him a birthday tea. Did not stay long because he was going out but then noticed he had a flat tyre, so he nicked my car.

Good old mum!

Cláudia said...

Boa noite, Hope and Leigh! :-)

Please, no legal questions for me. :-)

Cláudia said...

Hey, Ana! You do exist! I've been accused of being you and I had never read you. Was thinking you were a product of those sicko individuals' minds!

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Hope!

Glad your household (and Viv) is (are) enjoying Private Eye! (Must see if Ian Hislop will give me a fiver for that...)

I'm feeling quite good, thanks. But got to have an endoscopy next week (all that talk today of sedation was very apt). But at least I'll know then if I can go back onto the choccie herrings.

How are you? Did you get any paint? You know what happens if you buy some, don't you? You have to paint with it! So don't rush too much!

I'll be in and out tonight, because Most Haunted's on. Might just catch a glimpse of someone very scary in infra-red Clarrievision...

Oh, Wizard - see you Soo...n! ;)

X Little Ghostly Cell

ta ra said...

P.S.

I think the McCann ITV 'documentary' is another PR disaster for Clarence Mitchell, the former UK Government Media Monitor, assigned to the McCanns in Portugal AFTER dipolomats warned the UK Government of the folly in providing preferential treatment, unprecedented support, for two child neglectors, and their friends.

Yes, UK nationals are entitled to assistance from the British Embassy abroad, but they are not entitled to blind support, undermining international agreements and diplomatic protocol.

Just a thought.

Ana said...

sorry - Liars not layers
my mistake

Ana said...

hello claudia :)

hope4truth said...

Viv

LOL Mum's are great...

Just going to watch Benidorm for half an hour xxx

Anonymous said...

Isis,
can i ask you why you were upset yesterday,I have had two of my children taken by car accidents.Just to send you my best wishesxx
jf

ta ra said...

No legal questions for you, Claudia, so long as there are no questions on Spanish grammar for me :-) Best wishes to you, Alsabella, Ana, and all our friends of truth in Portugal, however long this takes.

Dear Viv,
Good old Mum. Darn! George won't like that description, and I've bought the wedding hat, so please, don't mess up our chances.

Dear Niki,
I posted to you earlier, but with hundreds of posts on this forum now, we'll probably miss each other. I liked your quote from the Bible, and here's one all kind souls like, I think: 'Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future.'

Justice. It's a very complex thing. See you next time :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Viv,

Thanks for your post re: timings and trials. Very informative. Looks like we'll be on here for a while so....!

Rori Hegarty said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Hiya Ana

Good to hear from you. It is natural you wish to defend your Police and your country. Why should these people attack Portugal for what the McCanns went on holiday and did? It is an absolute disgrace. They even link the so called treatment of the McCanns to the mum in Goa, not that it is her fault she went and left a 15 year girl unprotected - oh no, somehow it is the fault of the Police!

This is just a tiny little bunch of people who seek to defend the McCanns no matter what and by whatever perverse and unpleasant means they can devise. Not long ago there was one on here, as usual insisting that I am two other posters, Plainwaters who I was very friendly with on the Daily Express and Penelope a lady who posts on this blog. I dont know whether it is pure paranoia or just pure maliciousness, but they are very unpleasant liars.

You are very welcome here and the lies they told about you having some hideous picture is truly wicked. I could not count the obnoxious things they have been saying about me since last October, even referring to me as HIV and attacking my parrot, saying he could do with a brick which I did find upsetting and I really cannot undertand people who even bear malice to a beautiful little parrot, and they try to tell us they care about children and animals, I really dont think so.

I understood your post perfectly well. Please do not worry about your English, we have lots of posters who native language is not English and they are always very welcome here. It is the wonderful world wide web and views from Portugal are especially welcome.

Viv x

Anonymous said...

LGC,

I will be thinking of you next week I have to have the same medical procedure as you in June.

Anonymous said...

isis
you are so right re the past but it is very hard.Ihave two grown up children and six grandchildren ,it makes gettingup in the morning a little easier.Sorry for going of topic.Iwill continue to read you all with intrest&respect keep up the good work,alsa i wish you well.
jf

hope4truth said...

LGC

Most Haunted we have 8 hours of the live show from this week to watch (I get annoyed when they shout although if I was with them would be shouting and crying)...

Just watching the new series of Benidorm (ad break)...

Took paint back as wanted a deep red and in the light it looked more pink than red it wont be me painting I love cleaning but if I try any form of DIY we end up paying for someone to fix what I did...

See you later xxx

hope4truth said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LittleGreyCell said...

Zodiac,

Sorry to hear that. I am assured, though, that it's a simple procedure, and that you don't remember any of it with the sedation. Only takes 10 minutes, too!

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

See you later - although I might be a little shaken by then!

X

Unknown said...

LGC and Zodiac

I am sorry to read you both need endoscopies and know I can speak for everyone in saying we will thinking of and hoping you will get better and everything will turn out well for you.

Luv Viv x

ta ra said...

Dear Isis,

I am sorry to hear about your first born child. SIDS is a mystery. I'm glad you've been blessed with 3 children, and they are blessed with a courageous mother and father.

Leigh

Unknown said...

By the way LGC

Do you really know Ian Hislop, I would love to meet him but doubt I could keep up the intelligent banter. If you could choose someone to be stuck in a lift with he would not be a bad choice, I am sure he could regail you with so much intelligent good humour, the fire brigade would be popping in before you even had chance to look at your watch..or your mobile eh Gerry!

ta ra said...

LGC and Zodiac.

Endoscopy. There's an end to it, and tis pity someone has to copy it.

Apologies, LGC. Will let you do the jokes in future. Tis best, really. Not good to make the patients queasy with anaemic humour :-)

I've had the same procedure a few times. Oi~! It's over in no time, and a great excuse to insist that visitors bring you your favourite food.

Opus: herrings are only your favourite food. Maybe LGC and Zodiac would like not-herrings; maybe not fish? :-)

Rori Hegarty said...

Thanks leigh. Im recieved warm wishes from all yesterday, pros and antis alike which was very heartwarming

Unknown said...

Isis

We all have sad events in our lives but I truly feel for you. It is wonderful that you have now been blessed with three wonderful children who I am sure are such a precious joy to you.

Love Viv x

hope4truth said...

Viv

I would want to be stuck in a lift with Ian and Paul Merton they really bounce off each other really well I could watch them all day on Have I Got News for You... Although I am sure if I was on either of their teams would look like a spare part and would not think of a single thing to say...

xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

Many thanks for your good wishes.

The doc I saw yesterday was very reassuring - he told me they're getting quite good at doing them these days! (Is that very reassuring??)

X

hope4truth said...

Isis

I read comments for you and wondered what they were for (did not like to ask) I cant imagine how you feel to loose a child must be the hardest thing in the world.

For what it is worth I send you my love x

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

I know I'm going to get clobbered by certain people for this (too bad, Pros), but yes, I do know Ian H. He looks just like he does on TV!

(Is that libellous?)

hope4truth said...

LGC

Some people (strange people) spend good money having the same procedure as you are about to have...

I dont think Madame Kinky is NHS thought x

LittleGreyCell said...

Leigh,

I'd like some bl**dy chocolate!!!

Rori Hegarty said...

lgc, dont believe what they tell you !!!! only joking a shot of midazolam and you will sleep like a baby, i worked in an endoscopy unit and never had a complaint, but just leave opus at home.... if he can be trusted that is !!

Ana said...

Viv,

I always have been welcome on here despite my bad English, thank you for that.
I do not care what they think about me, but I do care what they say about my country and my police, those creatures forgot that were those people of my country that in the night of de disappearance of Madeleine, haven’t sleep all night to search the little one, not their parents, not their friends or family… Oh but we are such a bad people …
How dare they? It was not the Portuguese people neither the police that left Madeleine and the twins home alone ...

Rori Hegarty said...

Thanks hope, as i said the warmth i got from both sides yesterday was heartwarming and very much appreciated.

Unknown said...

ISIS

I reckon OPUS is such a cute baby he will have a good preen, insist he is really clean and want to resuss his mama with a nice nuzzle of his beek ..right on her cheek x

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

Personally, I'd rather see what's going to go into my stomach rather than what's already in there (goats milk yoghurt, stewed apple, yoghurt from goats milk...)

hope4truth said...

Isis

It is good to know we are all human underneath everything x

ta ra said...

Chocs away, LGC!

By the way, regarding Ian Hislop, I think your libel defence would be: fair comment :-)

Notice when he said the only reason Private Eye didn't cover McCann case was because they couldn't risk another libel writ at the moment. AT THE MOMENT.

Libel can be a badge of courage, imo. Whatever it takes to reveal the truth, however long it takes.

One writ: £600K including costs.

Truth: priceless.

hope4truth said...

LGC

How is the Maple Syrup going???

I am back on that for a week from Monday going to have lovely skin and hair and a bit less weight to carry around with me.

Still havent got my Private Eye back there is going to be a fight in a minute!!!!!

LittleGreyCell said...

Isis,

Well, the doc told me not to worry, that I wouldn't remember anything, but I said there was room for lots of worrying before I actually got the snoozy stuff...

I read the posts yesterday, Isis, and my sentiments are also the same as everyone else's.

XXX

LittleGreyCell said...

Leigh,

I think Ian H has made worse comments about his own features!

Rori Hegarty said...

Lcg, the doc is correct ,you wont remember anything, you will be fine .

ta ra said...

Dear Isis,

Tragedy unites the human soul, perhaps.
Best wishes to you and yours.

I hope we can all be so compassionate when the truth about Madeleine Beth McCann is told.

I dislike liars, but I do want justice for Madeleine, and I want justice for her family when the time comes.

Justice. A very complex thing.

I hope you enjoy everything with your family; it's joy and sorrow, isn't it?

As Viv says: it makes us human.

xo
Leigh

Cláudia said...

Hello, Ana!
Those people shoud have had the Goan treatement, if you know what I mean. Right away!

hope4truth said...

Ana

Your English is excelent and dont worry about spelling or using the wrong words..

I can only speak English and my spelling is terible and my typing errors are many so keep posting x

Ana said...

Cláudia,
For sure !

Anonymous said...

Saw this on U Tube. Its very tasteful and points out the flaring discrepanies in the McCann spiel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dey0baAlRrE&feature=related

The music is beautiful, and was composed especially. It makes me feel so sad. Poor little girl.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

Still maple-ing away - it's a very comforting drink. Do try it with the grated ginger, tastes lovely! (Do you drink it hot or cold?)

Know what you mean about your hubby and the Private Eye; before the newspapers had websites, I used to have loads of papers knocking around, including most of the tabloids (don't try this at home; this was for professional purposes!).

The number of times visitors would come to my home and say "News of the World! That's a terrible paper!"...before sitting down for half an hour reading it from cover to cover. Couldn't get a peep out of them. After which they threw it down on the table with a cry of "Disgusting!" Hmm.

Off for a bit to catch ghosts...

X

Joe said...

I see everyone is on this site. I was just looking in on the Rosie site and they appear at a dead end at the minute,thumb twiddling and drinking tea. Its like the clock has stopped over there.

LittleGreyCell said...

Isis,

Thanks, sweetie!

X

Ana said...

Hope4truth,

I will , that is for sure !
Thank you .

ta ra said...

LGC!

'...worse things about his own features...'

B*y hell. Wait til the subs hear about that, e.g. Glenda Slag thinks she writes a very good feature...:-), as did Knacker of the Yard.

Lord Gnome is in trouble, as usual...

Think of that when undergoing the endoscopy, and you'll relax just fine!

Unknown said...

Hiya again Ana

The weird thing is why did they only hire a car 25 days later? If you lost your child in a foreign country and your car was back home, I think you would feel desperate to go out searching and hiring a car would help to allay that feeling of helplessness, that you were trying to find her. So getting a car should have been a priority. I think the reason they did not is explained by the forensic evidence found in that car which led to them immediately being made prime suspects, and rightly so.

The parent supporters say oh well he probably wore gloves. What they do not seem to realise is gloved hands and shod feet still leave forensic evidence, but there is none, nothing at all, just like there was no evidence at all against Murat who they and their friends wickedly sought to frame, wasted so much police time in the process and then have the audacity to say how hopeless the police are. For following up all leads just like they keep demanding should happen even now. I really could not believe they were even demanding checks be made re the Mari Luz killer. Just like that so called silly sighting in France.

Every little fake sighting or missing child, even in another country, according to the desperate McCanns, there is a link. Like there is just one master criminal operating. It is simply staggering what they expect the public to swallow or the police to bother to investigate when they already know what happened.

Kate McCann herself admitted that she expected to be charged last September, that was a clear acknowledgement the Police did have a good case against her. I bet Gerry was not at all pleased with her coming out with that. No wonder he always tried to shut her up and do all the talking, not that he is anywhere near as bright as he likes to think.

Cláudia said...

Ana, I'm sorry, but I really don't remember reading you? Did you use to comment on DE? Or was I really, really distracted?

hope4truth said...

LGC

I drink it cold as I dont like hot drinks but am going to buy some root ginger along with a stack of Lemons tomorrow... My Husband makes it for me every morning when I go on it in a two litre Sprite Bottle although this time I wont keep it in the fridge it may taste better at room temprature...

Good Luck with the Ghosts let me know if you see one x

Unknown said...

Hope said

"still havn't got my Private Eye back, there is going to be a fight in a minute".

Get in bed with it darling and share nicely:-)

On no the cheeky bugger will have half read it and keep chiming in telling you what it says...

ta ra said...

Hi Penelope,

The 'inconsistencies' and 'contradictions' in statements made by the McCanns and their holiday friends, and their UK 'friends' are the very reason they now maintain a 'pact of silence', and the McCann Machine of media manipulation, in my opinion.

I remember you from the DE, if it is the same you, and your interest in mobile phone records. New technology is interesting, and revealing, I think.

ta ra said...

Hi Joe,

Yes, the waiting must be so very difficult for them. Tick tock. Time tells all...

Anonymous said...

LGC,

My Consultant has assured me that I will not remember anything, I am going in for Day Surgery which pleases me as I hate hospitals. Yours is of the stomach mine is of the Colon (also known as a Colonoscopy) thank goodness I wont remember a thing! Good wishes for next week LGC. BBFN everyone, enjoy your evening.

hope4truth said...

Viv

By the time I get it back I will know half of it every few minutes its listen to this or OMG this is funny listen!!!!!

Good Job I love him or he would be wearing it by now....

Joe said...

Yes Leigh3 time reveals all...eventually.


Hello Viv
I forget my manners, I hope you don t mind my joining your forum.

ta ra said...

Zodiac.

No fear colonoscopy. It's exploratory, and preventative. Yuk, yes, but as needs must. Relax.

American writer Mark Twain (paraphrasing from a French philosopher) said: 'My life has been ruined by things which never happened.'

Or something like that. Can't remember exact words, but they were wise words! Doh. I must be getting old...

Cláudia said...

Alsabella says hi to all of you good people! :-)
She's taking care of some things she has to take care of and she'll be back soon.

Anonymous said...

H4T,

Was just logging off when I saw your post re lemons and root ginger. I love root ginger and drink lots of lemon and ginger tea. What is your recipe please?

Bye the way I was thinking of Hopeforyou today, I hope she is well. Heloo H4Y if you are reading look forward to reading you again.

Unknown said...

Hello Joe,

I read you Alsabella's - welcome!

Oh he sounds like my mom lol..she says I kept this for you to read, because it is so interesting. My step father finds me some reading glasses, sometimes she even whets my appetite, it sounds interesting, but then every time I try to read I get the running commentary and oooooo wot dya think then ummmm well I dont know cuz I aint had chance to actually read it. She does it with the TV too bless her... I know let's watch this, I marked it in the paper, but then loudly professes her opinion right the way through..

Good Job I love her too, otherwise I ask her if she needs a new scarf..tighly knotted:-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Leigh3,

Yes, its the same Penelope from the DE forum, still in the telecoms field.

You know that its possible, with a police warrant, for the CONTENT of sms messages be retrieved? So the PJ know exactly what Gerry and O'Brien were texting about during their 14 texts on the evening of May 3rd.

It will all come out in the wash.

Anonymous said...

Zodiac and LGC -

My best wishes and good luck to both of you with your medical treatment - I always think the worst part is the time spent thinking about it before the actual thing is carried out!. I know lots of people who have had endoscopies and most of them say it is not so bad as you think - I believe they relax the throat with something so it's sort of like a local anaesthetic! I don't know about the other end though!!

Joe said...

Zodiac, I had a colonoscopy done 14 months ago. Did not remember a thing after, not even when the doc was explaining the results. My wife was there so she was able to relate to me what they said. So nothing to fear.

Unknown said...

Sorry Joe the second bit of that post was meant for Hope, you must be thinking the Pros are right and I am a bit of a nutter:-)

Anonymous said...

ISIS, you asked about posts.

http://the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1735&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=abc4befe366785056c5611da38a81fb4

Anonymous said...

Thanks Leigh3. Relax! LOL!

Claudia Hi, glad to hear Alsabella will be back. Night all.

ta ra said...

Ah, but Joe, perhaps time reveals things more quickly with the combination of modern technology and old techniques; a winning combination, I think.

We'll see.

Night all. Got to take my daughter to LHR Termninal 5 tomorrow. Maybe she'll fly; maybe she'll test out the new chairs for hours on end...or days...or months.

New technology. Dontcha luv it?!

Ta ra for now, Viv. Boa noite Portugal.
xo
Leigh

Unknown said...

Claudia

Say hi to Alsabella for me and look forward to reading her again soon, I bet Rosie & CO does too:-)

Cláudia said...

Good night, Zodiac.

hope4truth said...

Hi Zodiac

I buy the Madal Bal Natural tree syrup and follow the Lemon Diet (you get a free book with the syrup) I lost a stone in 5 days the last time I used it and felt great.

It was designed to help stomach ulcers and is a good detox LGC is using normal Mapel syrup lemons and root ginger and says it is soothing...

I will find some links for you next time you are on xxx

Ana said...

Viv,

They only hired a car 25 days because they knew that Madeleine was no longer in this world, so what’s the point? They were not able to hire a babysitter so why hire a car? It’s much more expensive and the fund was not running 100% in the earlier days , when they found that they could use the fund money to "support them" , they hired the car ,the house etc. They are the prime suspects because in that car, the police and the English dogs found some kind of evidence that support their arguidos status and because they refuse to answer several questions. What kind of parents refuse to cooperate with the police if their daughter was missing? I know I wouldn’t...

Cláudia said...

Boa noite, Leigh!
Viv, yeah, I'm sure they are... lololololol It's gonna worth the wait, I'm sure! :-)

Cláudia said...

What kind of parents refuse to cooperate with the police if their daughter was missing? I know I wouldn’t...
--------------------------------
That kind of parents, Ana. That kind.

hope4truth said...

NIght Leigh

I hope they have it sorted by the time she gets there x

ta ra said...

Penelope1.
Chuffed it's you. I remember you focused on the mobile phone records angle on the DE, and I think you will be proved right. Now: will it be admissable, or when will it be admissable?

Gotta go. Look forward to seeing you next time.
Ta ra.
Leigh

hope4truth said...

Viv

That was funny I had to read your post twice and worked out it was for me as well maybe those pros are right you are a nutter LOL xxx

Anonymous said...

Nancy/Joe, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Viv -

thanks for replying to my earlier post - been to a lecture this evening so have only just seen it. Yes, you would have thought the McCanns would have dangled that million pounds under the noses of the supposed abductor or abductors by way of their media campaign to entice someone to come forward. I realise you would attract a lot of fakes, but it's just something you would do anyway. A normal parent would do absolutely everything, including selling their home, to get their child back. It's a pity the Virgin boss, Richard Branson, and all the rest who donated to the fund, didn't offer their money to the supposed abductor at the time - it might just have brought results. Instead Gerry decides to buy a top of the range car!! Unbelievable!

Off to bed now - see you all tomorrow - God Bless.

Unknown said...

Penelope

How fascinating you are in the field. I have been reading quite a bit ..how they can retrieve so much information from Gerry's mobile, not just his texts but his whereabouts, so many masts around PDL and how they can retrieve information from damaged and formatter hard drives. I read there is one programme you can use to really format a hard drive, trouble is police can tell you used the programme. That emails go on so many servers you got no chance of losing them at all! Dear dear Gerry, what with good old fashioned police methods and all that super technology he loves so much, we know he is an avid little bogger don't we? well I reckon those PJs are going to leave no stone unturned, especially been as you slated them so much, not wise, being rude and nasty, never helps you in life IMO, best avoided:-)

Joe said...

Night Leigh3.



Viv, Thank you.

I would not take too much heed of what they say on the other blog. I was reading it and being objective and they do not deviate at all from the hymn sheet. They do not even for a tiny second contemplate that the McCanns possibly were involved, as we are all human and prone to mistakes etc. Nobody can be that sure of their innocence.

Anonymous said...

H4T,

Where would I get it. A stone in 5 days!

Ana said...

Cláudia ,

I never have post in the DE, but I use to read it several times ,well a lot of times almost everyday. My first post ever was here in the beginning days of this blog …

Unknown said...

Nite Nite Leigh and Zodiac

Good old technology, keeps us together and helps the police no end:-)

ate amanha
Boa Noitexxxxxxx

hope4truth said...

Zodiac

It is on ebay for about £39.00 a ltr (watch you dont buy half a ltr by mistake for the same price) hold on I will get you a link...

You dont eat anything else while you are on it but dont feel hungry either (and I love food) x

Rori Hegarty said...

Thanks anon, thats the one i was looking for.

hope4truth said...

Zodiac

Health shops sell it but below is a link which gives some info (I have never used this site just as an example)...

http://www.neerasupercleanse.com/

I am not one for diets and detox but a friend recomended it (she is tiny) and said she felt good it is also good for Blood Presure and many other things xxxx

Anonymous said...

Thanks hope will look back for the link, off now. x
Night all.
Zodiac

Anonymous said...

Thanks H4t.

hope4truth said...

Zodiac

Night xxx

Cláudia said...

Thanks for your answer, Ana. I'm just nosy, which I'm sure you already know if you read DE! :-) Have you ever posted on Alsabella's blog? I don't remember reading you.

dolores said...

G/Evening everyone,
Here is news regarding Mari Luz,this is truly awful.


Santiago del Valle had escaped serving a single day of prison despite being found guilty of child sexual abuse on two previous occasions
Santiago del Valle García, the man arrested in connection with the death of five year old Mari Luz Cortés from Huelva, has been ordered to prison without bail by the judge in Instruction Court One in Huelva on charges of murder and against sexual freedom. The judge also told him that he must also serve the two years and nine month sentence handed down against him in 2006 by Penal Court One in Sevilla for abusing his own daughter.

The judge also ordered prison without bail for Rosa del Valle, his sister who had also been arrested along with his wife and a brother. The wife, Isabel García, was released with charges after making her statement to the Instruction judge and is now reported to be staying outside Huelva province. Santiago and Rosa left the Huelva Provincial Court at a quarter to one this morning, bound for the jail in Huelva.


The stairs in the Santiago del Valle home where it is reported he claims the child fell accidentally - Photo EFE
enlarge photo
The body of Mari Luz Cortés was found floating in the Ría de Huelva on 7th March, 54 days after she disappeared from her home in the El Torrejón district of Huelva City during a short trip to the local sweets kiosk.

Meanwhile the General Council for Judicial Power (CGPJ), the body which oversees the judiciary in Spain has opened an investigation as to why the alleged killer of Mari Luz had not served a single day in jail, despite two prison sentences against him. The latest was the firm 2 year 9 month sentence handed down against him by Penal Court One in Sevilla for the sexual abuse of his own five year old daughter. There was a second earlier sentence also, for two years in jail, handed down for the sexual abuse of a nine year old girl who he surprised on the stairs of her home, which he also somehow escaped serving.

It appears the official reason was that he was ‘whereabouts unknown' and had also appealed against the second sentence which had allowed him to avoid being placed inside. He had claimed that it was a gymnastics teacher who had abused his daughter, and not him, presenting a fake medical report at the time to support his case.

The court documents from Sevilla at the time make dramatic reading. Público quotes them as saying ‘On several occasions the accused, dropping his trousers, would make his daughter touch his member with her hands, and on other occasions he would masturbate while he touched her genital region. The mother was often present while this took place, and despite the opposition of the child who complained to her father that it hurt, never did anything to stop it taking place’. The court documents note that the mother, Isabel García, has an I.Q. of only 47, and she was clearly under the manipulative influence of her husband. The Sevilla court documents also indicate that Santiago del Valle suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, but also that the judge considered that when he abused his daughter he knew exactly what he was doing. The couple’s two daughters, now aged 9 and 15, are in the care of foster families.


Santiago del Valle in Cuenca before being transferred to Huelva yesterday - Photo EFE
enlarge photo
There is also a third case of a 13 year old girl in Gijón, against whom he was handed down a distancing order after he had been chatting to her on the internet and proposed sexual relations. The girl’s mother discovered the plan and informed the police in that case.

The Government Delegate for Andalucía, Juan José López Garzón, commented that it was not for the police or the government to comment on the situation, and he was not going to make a judgement. He called for calm from the local population. However López Garzón did not deny that there was a search and capture order in place against Santiago del Valle since 2006.

It appears that the Police investigators into the Mari Luz case knew nothing of this however, and were unaware that he lived less than 100 metres away from where she disappeared. However the local residents of this tight-knit community did know about Santiago del Valle’s past, and a few hours after Mari Luz vanished they had informed the missing girl’s parents.

El Mundo reports that several people from the neighbourhood, including Mari Luz’s father, Juan José, and some of her uncles, forced their way into Santiago del Valle’s home, taking some papers on the same day that the child had vanished, knocking down the door in search of the youngster. This led the man who is now charged with the child’s murder to call the police for help. The police went to the home and initially thought it was a simple case of breaking and entering, deciding to put off making full enquires until the next day. When they returned, Santiago del Valle and his family had gone, and it was only some time later that police joined the dots in the case and realised that they were dealing with a known paedophile with a previous record.

Unknown said...

Hiya Nancy

Yes, the McCanns, it has always been so much about everyone else providing them with the money to "find Madeleine" and what they mention a little less "support the immediate family..lovely new company car, courtesy of the find Maddie fund. Normal parents would want to pay themselves, not expect everyone else to, they are not proud where it comes from either, even threatened to sue the PJ, anywhere they can get it from, American film companies, Oprah, only trouble is they did not want them!

Funny thing is, we never hear a peep from Branson any more, or JK Rowling, or ........(!) Justice McGuinness and a couple of fund directors gone...maybe they had second thoughts about their own reputations..and the er...innocence of Kate and Gerry McCann. I reckon that stands a good chance.

Tired now folks

Nite Nite
but please feel free to blog onxxx

PS Supertroll or whatever you are currently calling yourself that is not an invite. It must be very disheartening to see all that hard work go to waste x

Ana said...

Cláudia,

No i haven’t, but i use to read "theworldaccordingalsabella..." too and i like very much her point of views, and yours too: )

Cláudia said...

Thanks, Ana. I hope I'll read your views, here, there or elsewhere! :-)
Can I ask you? North, Centre or South? You already know where I am, I suppose! :-)

Ana said...

i am from Oporto , i think you are from Viseu , and benfiquista ....

Rori Hegarty said...

Goodnight to all, my bed is calling me !! Read you all tomorrow. Slán !!

Anonymous said...

Goodnight isis and everyone
justice for madeline&all abused childen
godbless x
jf

Cláudia said...

yes, I am from viseu. And benfiquista (nobody's perfect!) :-)
As you are from Oporto I suppose there's no need to ask you what team you support... ;-)

Ana said...

the champion team of course :)

Cláudia said...

Yep, that was what I suspected! :-)

Ana said...

If we all supported the same team, the world would be so sad, I like the differences: )

Cláudia said...

You're right, Ana.
I love the northern accent. It's just wonderful! :-) And ours here is not bad either! lol

Anonymous said...

THIS IS JANETGIN&TONIC,
I AM SOOOOOOOOOO DRUNK ICANNOTTTTT,SEE WHERE IAM HELPPPPPPPPPP ME FLOPS AND& MAAAANZ,HEEEEEEEEEEP HAAHAAAAAA.

hope4truth said...

Anon

Then why not use your log in name?

Ana said...

Cláudia,
sou uma mulher do norte carago :) tb adoro o sotaque, eu por acaso não tenho muito , há portuenses que o têm bastante mais acentuado , mas é mesmo hilariante... lolol
esta anonima será mesmo a bebedolas ? Quer conversa ?

Ana said...

Anonymouse ,


Gorosan

Cláudia said...

Eu também não tenho sotaque de Bizeu, Ana. Mas farto-me de rir com sotaques. Gosto mesmo muito. Não, não é a bebedolas. É um anónimo qualquer a querer arranjar cumbersa! :-)

Ana said...

tadito inda se cunseguixe cumberxar , podia xer que cumbibesse um cadito cum ele ...mas axim não dá : )

LittleGreyCell said...

Nancy,

Thanks for your good wishes! If I'm not going to remember what goes on, I don't think I'll worry about it (much). :)

X

hope4truth said...

LGC

Any Ghosts???

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope and Lovely People, (Don't mean to say you're not lovely, Hope!)

I'm going to hunt some more ghosts and then fall into bed.

Many thanks for all the reassuring comments tonight!

Sleep well, all. See you tomorrow...

XXX

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

Well, many people are saying this week in Turin is the scariest yet, but I don't agree.

Don't much like the new psychic they've got - didn't see the first night, so don't know why the usual guy isn't there.

Some spooky things, so you won't be disappointed...

Night night,

X

hope4truth said...

LGC

I am off to hope you sleep ok after all those spirits (and I dont mean Whisky as you are on Maple Syrup),,

Night all xxx

Cláudia said...

É melhor não, Ana. Imagina lá se a maluqueira e a bebedice se pegam? Chiça!

Rori Hegarty said...

anon of 23.07, i think that is uncalled for.

Ana said...

na, disso estou vacinada, no problem , malucos há muitos é como os chapéus e a mim não me afectam , só tenho por eles aquela coisa que as galinhas tb têm : pena :)quantos aos bebedolas ,não nutro nada por eles , nem pena ...

Cláudia said...

Tens razão, Ana. Onde estiveste escondida este tempo todo, mulher? Ou a gente já cumbersou antes?

Ana said...

tenho andado sempre por aqui , escondidinha é certo , mas sempre atenta... :)é a primeira vez que estamos a conversar , não é meu costume participar em blogs ou foruns ,mas este assunto despertou em mim esta necessidade.
Estas gajas pensam que nós somos quem ?Já no DE tinham a mania de nos insultar e continuam a fazer o mesmo lá no antro de cobras que formaram depois do encerramento do De .Enough is enough !

Cláudia said...

Ai, filha, eu já ando nisto há tempo tempo que já nem sei. E olha que também não sou dada a fóruns e a blogs. Ou melhor, não era. Mas como tu dizes, há limites. O meu foi atingido há muito. E que venham com ameaças e insultos, que não me vão calar...

Cláudia said...

Viv, hope you don't mind us chatting a bit in Portuguese. I'm sure you don't because we have talked about this before and recently. However, if you ever change your mind, you know how to get the message through! :-)

Anonymous said...

First it was Docmac/southerncross,
now we have a new ventriloquist act...

(Notice the same theme: speaking in another language, going on about their country)

Claudia/ana.

Gotcha
hahaha how pathetic you are...

What are you hiding?

Cláudia said...

Anita, filha, inguenora a besta, ok?

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