28 Mar 2008

HOGAN TO FACE RE-TRIAL FOR UNLAWFUL KILLING OF HIS SON

When hearing the judgment of the Greek Court in this case that this man was not guilty of any unlawful act because he was insane after just a one and a half day hearing, I did feel very shocked and felt immense sorrow for the mother.

British subjects who kill abroad are subject to our own jurisdiction to try them for those acts. What is unual here is that he has already been tried abroad but certainly, on the basis of our own law this was a mistrial. It is unheard of in UK to have such a short hearing into such a serious case without hearing properly from live witnesses.

At the Coroner's inquest in the UK the Coroner has now ruled that he pushed the children off and that was an unlawful act. He was arguing with his wife and from the witness account placed the children in front of the guard rail and then moved forward again and pushed them off. This sounds like deliberate murder to me. If he was psychotic, and I am not clear that he was, as opposed to be in a furious rage where he thought he would punish the wife in the most macabre way, then under UK law he would have been entitled to the defence of "dimished responsibility" to the charge of murder, on the basis that he was so ill at the time, he just did not understand the nature and quality of his act. However, this would not mean that he was "not guilty". It would mean instead that he would be guilty of manslaughter because diminished responsibility merely reduced the culpability of the accused, it does not say there was no unlawful act. Plainly there was. This would then entitle him to treatment in a secure hospital prior to serving the remainder of his sentence in prison. Unlike murder where the offender gets an automatic life sentence, the sentence would be considered on the basis of the danger he presented, therefore given the circumstances he would probably still have received a life sentence and be kept in custdody until the risk he presented was considered to be substantially reduced.

It is simply not reasonable that a man who has committed such a serious offence simply gets a few months psychiatric treatment and is then allowed home. No wonder this woman feels that justice has not been secured and that he is still a danger, he is!

It seems that we may now persuade the Greek authorities that this was a mistrial or if not, then we could place him on trial in the UK. I applaud the Coroner for making an appropriate judgment here that must give some satisfaction to this poor woman who may continue to feel threatened herself by him, given what he did to her children.

Of application to the McCann case, of course it confirms that even if either of the McCanns were ultimately found to be suffering from mental illness or serious pscyhopathic disorder this would not enable them to just escape scott free with nothing more than psychiatric treatment. Furthermore, at any time, UK authorities could elect to try them here, although as a matter of courtesy to Portugal will enable them to prosecute, should they so wish.

I hope the forum can remain a pleasant place for posters who genuinely wish to post on topic and not abuse others posters, or indeed myself, PLEASE.

Viv x



Balcony-death father could face trial again for murderBy DAN NEWLING - More by this author » Last updated at 20:47pm on 27th March 2008
Comments (52) The father who pushed his six-year-old son to his death from a fourth-floor balcony could be tried again for murder after his ex-wife declared that "justice has so far not been done".
As an inquest yesterday found that John Hogan "unlawfully killed" his son Liam in Crete, British police put in motion the legal moves that could see him face a retrial.
Officers have sent a file to the Crown Prosecution Service, where it will be reviewed to see if a case could be brought based on the testimony of previouslyunheard witnesses.

The Hogan family: New eye witnesses claimed John Hogan (far left) actually threw his son Liam (centre) and daughter Mia off the balcony after a row with his wife Natasha
One told the Bristol inquest into Liam's death she saw 33-year- old Hogan deliberately push his son from the hotel balcony 50ft up. The testimony was not heard at the Greek murder trial where Hogan was found not guilty after claiming to have been suffering from "an earthquake of insanity".
After the inquest Liam's mother Natasha Visser, who was Hogan's wife at the time her son died but who has since remarried, bitterly criticised the Greek legal system's failure to hold her former husband to account.
Shuddering with emotion, she described how she will remain haunted by the three hitherto-unknown British witnesses' descriptions of her son falling to his death.
Mrs Visser, 35, who claims that Hogan remains dangerous, added: "The Greek court made little attempt to establish the facts surrounding Liam's death and did not even call known eyewitnesses.

Distraught: Natasha Hogan said her life has been wrecked by her ex-husband John
"We understand that the decision about what happens next legally is in the hands of the English legal system.
"We can only trust that they will re- examine the evidence as a whole and make a decision that will protect John from himself and others."
She went on: "I cannot describe the pain I feel hearing that John had pushed his children off the balcony . . . walking away and then returning to push them.
"The image of the children looking like they were trying to reach out to each other will haunt me and my family for ever."
Hogan, from Bradley Stoke, near Bristol, turned killer during an argument with his then-wife on holiday in August 2006.
The former floor-tiler threw his two-year-old daughter Mia and Liam from the balcony before jumping himself. Mia survived.
Scroll down for more ...

Witnesses Iain and Sarah Davidson leave the Hogan inquest yesterday. Sarah broke down in tears as she recounted seeing the three plunge to the ground.
He told his trial he could not remember the incident. However Sarah Davidson, 38, who was on holiday in Crete, told the inquest: "I saw two children standing on the balcony on top of a wall. They were in front of the metal rail guard.
"The male came forward in between the two children and pushed them off."
At his trial, which lasted a day and a half, Hogan was declared to have been insane and legally incapable of being found guilty of murder or attempted murder.
Yesterday coroner Paul Forrest fell short of criticising the Greek verdict but said the trial did not have all the evidence in front of it.
He said Hogan's "incapability of understanding" was "irrelevant", adding: "The facts were abundantly clear in that the children were seen to be pushed off the balcony - objectively an unlawful act."


Liam Hogan died of severe head injuries after plunging from the fourth floor of a Crete hotel with his father, John
The Crown Prosecution Service said if Hogan were re-tried in Britain, it would be the first time a British citizen has been tried for a second time when the original court case took place abroad.
The Daily Mail understands that any retrial is more likely to happen in Greece, where the supreme court has the power to declare the original a mistrial.
Hogan remains in a secure psychiatric hospital in Greece but could be allowed to return to Britain a free man within months. That could complicate efforts by Mrs Visser's supporters to force a Greek retrial.
Hogan's family said he had been acquitted in relation to Liam's death because at the time "he was suffering from a psychotic condition such that he neither knew nor understood the nature and consequences of his actions".

519 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   401 – 519 of 519
Ana said...

é assim ,neste momento estão pra lá a gozar com a pj pois acham que a pj foi pedir ajuda ao Murat para lhes traduzir o bilhete de avião para inglaterra,mas que ele os enganou na data e hora da partida , achas normal ?

Cláudia said...

Já bi, Anita. Deixa-as gozar, que um dia destes bão ficar sem fôlego!

Anonymous said...

A bruxa ignorante está novamente aqui! Não preste nenhuma atenção. Você pode falar em português como você deseje. De rato na Turquia.

Ana said...

espero vem que tenhas razom , há momentos em que até eu , que confio plenamente na competência da pj , dúbido ...

Anonymous said...

A rata ignorante esta novamente aqui!!!!

Anonymous said...

Claudia também dar um beijo a Alsabella! - de rato.

Cláudia said...

rato na turquia! :-) és um espectáculo! Beijinhos!!!!! Obrigada!!!

Ana said...

olha o atrebimento do anonaninalymouse

Anonymous said...

Hello Rat!

Cláudia said...

Ana, isto num é uma kestão de kompetência. Nunca foi. É uma kestão de influência. E acho que nada disso está já nas mãos da judite. No entanto, não quer dizer que não aconteçam outras coisas que os deixem sem fôlego. E eu acho que sim...

Cláudia said...

anita, inguenora.

Ana said...

eu xei que já nada tem a ber cum a pj ,mas a pj é que xai
prejudicada , penxo eu ...

Anonymous said...

aqui, 2:00 am manhã; assim boa noite! - de rato

Anonymous said...

Goodnight Rat

Cláudia said...

Talvez. Mas a malta k tem mioleira pa pinsar, xabe bem k isto tudo xeira mt mal... E sabe bem d'onde bem o xeiro...

Ana said...

e xeira a bife ...

Cláudia said...

xeira a bife e bife podre...

Ana said...

completamente berdade e já em dicumposixom...

Cláudia said...

Salvo seija lololol

Ana said...

o k axas k bai acuntexer depois dos interugatórius ?algum disinvulvimento importante?

Cláudia said...

Num façu ideia, ana. Mas sinceramente num akredito.

Anonymous said...

How would she know anything ana?
she only posts here because she has nothing better to do and can't find a boyfriend.

But you two are the same person aren't you?

Ana said...

pois , era o k eu penxava ,tb pensxo k num.

Ana said...

táz a ber ? penxam que çxomos a mesma pesçoa

Cláudia said...

Max nextas coisas nunca xe xabe, num é, ana? Baxta axim uma pontita solta e lá bai tudo pelos ares...

Cláudia said...

lololol ana, é normal. Exta genti é axim, digamos, abariada da pinha, xabes? Inté axam c'o caxal marabilha é mestri na arte da puericultura, bê lá tu! ;-)

Ana said...

lá iço é berdadde , e neste cazo axho ke existem pontas xoltas a mais ...

Cláudia said...

Ui, ui, bués, resmas delas...

Anonymous said...

Claudia,
Are you docmac?

Ana said...

o kê? estes marabilhosus pais negligentes

Cláudia said...

ningligentes? mas tu és parba ou k? Akilo soum paizinhos du milhor keste mundo tem, caxopa. Toda a genti faz o mexmo, é tudo normali.

Ana said...

esquexime dixo , tens a raxom toda ...

Cláudia said...

E os pikenos já eram genti grandi, há k lembrari! C'um dois e kuatro anitos bem k já pudiam paxar férias sózinhos...

Ana said...

adoru qando kerem perxeber ,mas num perxebem nickles,ficam puxessas :)

Cláudia said...

É tum giro, né? fikam perdiditas da moca. dá-me um gozo do caraças!

Ana said...

as idades todas bem xomadas já dá 8 , já é uma idade vem grandinha

Ana said...

tb adóru Lolol

Cláudia said...

kom 8 anitos im cunjunto prexisam do pais pr k? Parboíces!
Fikam tão furibundas k dá uma buntade de rir k nem te digo, nem te conto!

Ana said...

ven tentam traduxir no google ,mas o noxo português é tom sufistikado k num cunxeguem

Anonymous said...

I am sorry, but you are being very rude here. One or two posts is ok, but you are taking over the whole blog.

You can speak in your own language everyday in your country or in private somewhere else.

This is viv's blog and it is a british one. Other posters would like to chat here in english.

Could you please go somewhere else to talk in portuguese?

John

Cláudia said...

elas bão pó babel ber xe apanhão kker coisita, mas c'um exte níbel de linguage, num há ipóteze! lololol

Ana said...

Cláudia,
bês , é o máximo , adoro !xerá que a Viv xe impurta ?

Cláudia said...

Anita, bou imbora. São oras de fazer ó ó. Nana vem. e inté brebe, ispero.

Ana said...

xau , inté outru dhia, dorme vem
bjinhos

Cláudia said...

Xe ela s'importar, ela dix-m k'ela tem o meu inderesso cibernáuticu. Talbez a genti cunsiga arrabjar forma de trucar cuntactos. logo se bê.
Jinhos!

Anonymous said...

Dorme vem docmac

Ana said...

boa noite Claudete , gostei de falar contigo , até breve :)
bj

Anonymous said...

Settle down notdoc, I can't help it of you had a heavy bedpan round.

Ha ha ha I knew that would get you, you idiot, you just do not know when you are being played do you, you pathetic little man.

? Cipriano ?Cipriani

Odious fool. Listen creep, "BANG BANG", that's a knock at your door, expect one soon and it wont be the postman knocking twice!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Anonymous said...

Dylan you ad better care, he could be coming to a hospital near you. It would not be the first time some sicko donned a white coat and pretended to be a doctor, in actual fact it is quite common. very dangerous though, they think they know things but they don't, they could be treating a member of your family.

I'm right aren't I notdoc? And no Google to look info up when you want it quickly either!

BANG! BANG!

Anonymous said...

Blithering idiot Portuguese posters prattling on in Portuguese and giving their country a bad name and they think the are being clever? Imbeciles!

Anonymous said...

Viv why did you post that boring load of crap twice and then said you would answer questions on it that no one asked?

Listen no one asked any questions on it, or even commented on it, because no one read it?

"If you get my drift?"

Stop grandstanding, these people are not here to what you painstakingly put up for them (twice) they are here because they have no other place to go, silly woman.
Please do not attempt to read you books/posts to Nandy or he may fall off of hs perch.

Anonymous said...

isis said...
Interesting read viv, had to read it a few times but got it eventually !! Thanks.

Friday, 28 March 2008 12:10:00 o'clock GMT


Oh Isis, you little liar! No way could you have possible read that book a few times, it would have taken you hours.

Shall we do some comprehension on the piece?

Question: What did Buxton LJ refer to?

Question: What date was Dr Bullards response on?

It was a nice gesture to try and humour Viv, but you really are better to try and get her to remain within the real world!

No one read that stuff she just raked up on the internet and she is not a probation officer or whatever it is she says she is, she resides in the same world as notdoc 'Fantasy Island' and her best friend is a dwarf in a white suit.

Ana said...

Anonymouse,

The only ones that gave a bad name to Portugal were and are the McCann, creatures like yourself, their friends and their family...
Unfortunately they gave a bad name to England and to all English parents too, because it’s normal to let the kids alone at home, "...all parents in England does that... “, oh what a liars they are ...

Now stop drinking, go home, take your pills and bed kid, your bedtime has past long time ago...


Don’t need to answer!!

Anonymous said...

Oh deary deary deary me Alsabella Ana, you are severely rattled and look perfect English, no more broken sentences, there is a clever girl.

See you can do it when you want to.

You are still and ignorant arrogant meadow lady though, that wasn't nice treating your hosts blog so disrespectfully and it looks so bad on your country.

Tell me are all Portuguese people so rude and condescending?

Anonymous said...

Ana Alsabella diddums sweetie.

How pathetic you are, what's the matter got nothing to do? (Try some housework your place stinks and you have run out crockery)

Ana said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ana said...

Anonymouse,

Which part of: don’t need to answer you didn’t understand?
Is it necessary to make a picture?

One last time you poor kid: I am not Alsabella.
need a picture too?

You need medical assistance that is for sure …

Anonymous said...

I actually feel sorry for Viv here. Everyone ignores her blog for ages then when that ridiculous Alsabella woman shuts down her blog everyone scoots over here and takes over this blog and some don't even have the social graces to keep it in a language Viv will understand.

Ana - anon was right - since all this started I too have had a very different picture of Portugal through the posters I have "met" on the DE and the blogs and I have to say it's not been a pleasant experience. Whereas before I was curious about what Porugal was like I now no longer have any wish to go if you lot are indicative of the people there.

hope4truth said...

Good Morning Nick

Dont feel sorry for Viv this site was not set up to see how many posts she could get in one day. It was not set up to see if sh could get more posters than Alsabella it was set up as an alternitive to the DX and was set up for Madeleine not her parents.

I posted on both sites but mostly here but if I was on Alsabellas site sometimes when talking would stay over there for a while and would not waste everyones time by posting twice most of us from each blog read both and stuck to one.

I am sure when Alsabella re opens her blog (id she decides she wants to) then people will go back there and visit Viv like they used to.

I dont know why you are so against Portugal only a few people post from there and if you look at it from there side their justice system is being condemed. IMHO the PJ have spent a hell pof a lot of time and money looking for a missing 3 year old child and if they had wanted to forget about her they could have just said sorry cant find her. If they had wanted to fit someone up thye could have done so to Murrat.

A group of people went to PDL and neglected their children night after night so they could have a good time without them. This is not the way parents should behave children are the most special gift any of us can have.

I have a 100s of questions and see the McCanns behaviour as very odd. IF there daughter was taken I cant imagine what they are going through and the guilt of knowing if they had offered basic care must be awful.

But all my sympathy goes to Madeleine for if she was killed or has been abducted she has been through or god forbid may still be going through hell and 3 year old children should be playing without a care not being subjected to terror.

As for Portugal I have only been there once and hope to go back next year. The thing I did not understand about them being left was the fact they were in such a child friendly country. My 4 year old nephew was with us when we went and every place we went to eat they made such a fuss of him and my own children it was never awkward to take him out at night (ok so we had to go back a bit earlier as he was tiered but we all played cards)...

Every country has 1000s of peadophiles waiting for a chance they are sick scum and need locking up and that is why as a parent it is or job to love and protect our children not leave them alone in a strange room.

Good to see you Nick I am off shopping before the rest of the Country wakes up. Take Care x

Niki said...

Good morning everyone!
Found this interesting to read again. It's long, so post only first page. The rest you can find here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/13/nmaddy413.xml&page=1

Madeleine McCann: Tycoons withdraw support
By Caroline Gammell in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 2:31am BST 17/09/2007Page 1 of 3



Two millionaire businessmen who gave money to help find Madeleine McCann refused today to contribute to the legal fight to clear her parents' name.

A mother's diary of love | What the police want
Madeleine McCann: Police seize mother's diary
The couple's official spokeswoman, Justine McGuinness, has also decided to step down, it emerged this afternoon. Exhaustion, and the McCanns' need for a PR adviser with more legal experience, are said to be behind her decision.


Madeleine McCann


Kate and Gerry McCann, 39, have hired top lawyers in Britain and Portugal after they were named official suspects in their daughter's disappearance.

Detectives believe Mrs McCann may have accidentally killed her daughter and relied on her husband to help cover up the crime. Although the couple insist the claims are baseless, the cost of trying to clear the "cloud of suspicion" is expected to run into tens of thousands of pounds.

Although the fighting fund set up to find Madeleine has raised more than £1 million, the trustees said the couple - who did not want to take the money anyway - would not be able to make use of the funds.

One entrepreneur, who refused to be named because of the delicate nature of the case, has given his backing in the past.


But today he told the Evening Standard: "I am not going to contribute any more. It is a difficult issue and it is not something I propose to get engaged in.

"It is the most confusing scenario anybody has ever seen. I am not judge and jury and I hope what I am reading is wrong. I have not yet been approached [a second time] but I wouldn't put any money in.

"If they can turn the tide in some form maybe there will be loads of backers. But right now this does not look a good place to go."

A number of well known figures have publicly supported the McCanns including JK Rowling, Virgin boss Sir Richard Branson, Topshop owner Philip Green and EasyJet founder Sir Stelios Haji-Ioannou.

A second wealthy businessman, who has given £100,000 to the fund, said: "We won't be pledging any more right now.


"I don't think that at the moment we would allow the money to be swapped to cover defence costs, but this is a difficult position and a very sensitive issue." The McCanns, from Rothley in Leicestershire, returned to the UK on Sunday, 48 hours after being declared suspects by Portuguese police.

Ms McGuinness, the McCanns' spokeswoman, is expected to step down this weekend if a replacement can be found in time.

The Media Guardian website is reporting that the couple are looking for a "big hitter" to work as their full-time PR representative as the investigation into their daughter's disappearance enters a new phase.

Phil Hall, the former News of the World and Hello! editor, who has been acting as a consultant to the McCanns in recent months, is thought to be the leading contender.




Continued
123Next page

---
Wish you all a good day:)
Niki

Wizard said...

Yesterdays article in the Mail - sloppy journalism or subtle brain washing about the re questioning of T7 and others. Yesterdays Mail says “Attention has also focused on Jane Tanner’s claim she saw a man carrying a girl from the McCanns’ ground-floor apartment at about 9.15pm the night she disappeared.”

Even Ms Tanner didn’t go this far. The road behind the apartments not no. 5A itself Daily Mail!

Niki said...

leigh3 said...

Justice is complex; morality is simple: do unto others as you would have them do unto you; that is the essence of every great religion, every great philosopy, if we can believe what we read, and what our hearts know to be true, I think. I could be wrong, but I prefer to be guided by great thinkers and doers rather than petty politics, and personal disputes.

--
Amen!

I'm not a very religious person, but the Bibel can teach everyone humanity and decensy...
-
Like Atardi said (with mine words) You good people, continiue to speak out for all of us who don't have english as our native language, and can't express ourselfs like you can!

Atardi, you went to work yesterday morning, and are still not back!?!?
Thats some hours you work in Holland:)

Niki

Gina said...

Good Morning all

Wizard I have just read the mail article and it is this bit that really winds me up

The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell says the Tapas Nine are keen to help police understand their original statements and want the re-interviewing to take place as soon as possible.

How many times have we heard that, how many times have we said if they are so keen to clarify their statements which could have alleviated any doubt, why on earth haven't they volunteered to do so sooner. If they are all innocent they have nothing to fear and now, unlike when they were first questioned, they have the best lawyers and the world watching. So why the wait, why let this part of the story spin on and on causing rumour and speculation. For all we know they may all be innocent but their behaviour points towards they must be hiding something. Maybe it was this kind of behaviour that made the PJ suspicious in the first place. I doubt if they had all been seen to be fully co-operative and explained why some of their statements were conflicting the PJ would have stuck with the abduction theory and not called the dogs in, and we all know where that led to. Everybody wants to blame somebody for this, I think the blame lies firmly with those who could have resolved it all sooner.

lizzy said...

HI Wizard, Niki/ Hope
Nice to see you on here this morning, still not too sure why people give the idiots any of their time, they post on here to divide and cause trouble, I ignore them all ,they are like the people they represent, arrogant bullies.To engage with them in my opinion is to give them an importance they do not deserve.
Has anybody been reading the thread on the book the star of Madeleine on the 3 Arguidos>?, makes interesting reading... Lizzy

hope4truth said...

Morning Gina Niki & Wizard

Gina I agree with you if they are all inocent and there is nothing to hide if they had all answered evey question as honestly as they could and Madeleine had been abducted one of them may have mentioned something that helped.

I know it is not allways easy to remeber a lady was attacked near where we live a few years ago and the police wanted to know what we were doing that night. We knew we had not been out but it was only when they had nearly finshed questioning us that we remebered we had freinds to stay that weekend (only two days earlier)but the diffrence was we did not know a crime had been commited so were not thinking about what we may have seen later the same night...

It is all very strange xxx

Gina said...

Hi Lizzy have you got the link to that please

lizzy said...

Gina,
The Tapas friends are as keen as the Mccanns in helping the police ...that is why there have been delayng tactics over the requestioning. If what I have read on the 3 Arguidos is true one of them still will not agree to a date to be requestioned, JT's blatant lies in her account of the abductor does not make her eager to help, she has changed her story twice at least. I believe nothing from Clarrie his job is to manipulate and control the media...Lizzy

hope4truth said...

Hey Lizzie did not see you xxx

hope4truth said...

Lizzy

I can never find anything on the 3 As is there a title I should look under (i bet it is the star of Madeleine) xxx

lizzy said...

Gina,
Sorry don't have a link, read it on one of my visits to
the site, if I find it will post it to you. 2345 may have one though., she is more organised than me.....Lizzy

Gina said...

HOPE - Any of us can make a mistake on times etc. Infact I actually find it amazing (and questionable) that when anything they said is quoted the actually remember the times to the minute (putting that aside). How many of us is we were doing the checking would actually remember the time, LEAST OF ALL NOW.

Gina said...

Lizzy welcome to my world, I do not do organised either ;-)

lizzy said...

HI Hope,
The thread for the book is on the first page of Justice for Madeleine so that should be easy to find, I'm trying to remember for Gina which thread I read about the Tapas member not agreeing to the requestioning date, there is so much on there,I will ask 2345 she may know. Lizzy

hope4truth said...

Gina

As they knew something really bad had happend they would have all checked their watches to work out when they last saw her who went where etc there was no reason to lie about it.

If they did not check is the only reason I can think of to lie but as they thought she had been taken it was important the PJ knew the last time she was seen to know how far the abductor had got...

Gina said...

Lizzy not to worry, Isis posted me loads of links yesterday morning on here but I never got time to look. I will find them later. Spent all day yesterday making a "this is your life book" for a friends 50th. I am useless with computers and the language was foul. Eventually did it, only to find I had run out of copy paper for photos, and I said "Oh how annoying" Well that is the cleaned up version

hope4truth said...

Thanks Lizzie

I will have a look later off out again now see you all xxx

Gina said...

Hope if the are too precise with their times to me that points to covering something up. Either something terrible, or the truth is that were not checking much at all. Surely to heavens they all realised that this was not going to go away and they would have to be requestioned again at some point, so as I say now, and have always said why wait. Nothing matters more than doing everything possible to help find a missing child. I would not have even considered any other possibility other than abduction had this story not run and run instigated by "Team McCann", it is they that have caused me doubt

lizzy said...

Gina/Hope
I really hope that this case will be solved by the Portugese police with the help of our Police and that the Politicians let this happen, but am not holding my breath,The Pj are due to fly here April 7th, they have been delayed since December when they originally wanted to come and set about to request the requestioning. Time will tell, but it is convenient that any results of this latest questioning will probably not be known until after the May elections.But that is my opinion. I had read months back that the Government wanted the requestioning delayed until after this date, would appear they may have achieved this. Lizzy

lizzy said...

Gina/Hope,
Am off now as my daughter has popped down with my grand daughter, hope you both have a lovely day and look forward to reading both of you later. Gina great to hear I'm not the only disorganised one...lol
Lizzy

Gina said...

Bye Lizzy and Hope, have a great day read you later if I can off too now.

ISIS - I managed to do the book but it has left me with my eyes out on stalks and a blue tongue from using too much foul language

hope4truth said...

Gina Lizzie

Have a nice day Lizzie...

Gina in their postion I would have been writing out my own timeline over and over to see if I had missed anything as I would never forgive myself if I did not say something that may have helped...

I am supposed to be out by now but My husband anounced he needed a shave (Men are much worse than women getting ready)...

See you later xxx

Gina said...

Hope that is a relief, glad you didn't say you needed a shave

Joe said...

I know if I was one of the Tapas 7 I would take great exception to the likes of Mitchell speaking for me, in relating that the Tapas are keen to be interviewed for the PJ to understand their original statements. Its all BS they had the last 11 months to do so by their own volition,if they REALLY wanted to help, but they have never acted individually, nor will they now, but do whatever the boss says first, is it GM or CM?

hope4truth said...

Gina

LOL

He is still not ready!!!!

I could grow a beard in the time I am waiting for him....

hope4truth said...

Hello Joe

I would be livid to have him speaking for me as well...

Maybe some of them just dont know anything happend other than what they have been told?

All very sad...

Gina said...

Hi Joe, I was just off as the washing machine is sounded off at me cos it has finished its task (A women's work and all that!!)

I have had plenty to say giving my views on this case, but my main gripe has always been the lack of co-operation and when I used to make them on the DX the pros would come up with the most ludicrous reasons why these people had not done more sooner. Absolutely no excuse whatsoever if they are genuine, caring, innocent parents. Madeleine was missing, you would walk over hot coals if you had to to reach her, well I would anyway. Off now before I wind myself up about this shower of s... parents

Joe said...

Hi Hope4truth/Gina,

Its bizarre that so called independent professional people allow the likes of Mitchell to speak for them over what is really a legal matter. Is he lawyer now as well?

Gina said...

Joe, everytime Mitchell opens his mouth he brings into question the things we have been discussing. But not left us forget he is only the hired hand and he could have been sacked months ago

hope4truth said...

Joe

Well as everyone says it is so hard on them staying silent we certainly hear enought about them and from them in interviews and so far no one has been arested for breaking silence...

It is spin and you dont need spin when you are inocent (or if you are inocent should not use it) as it makes you look like there is a reason for using it...

Right my Husband is finaly ready I am off have a good day x

Gina said...

To Hopes Husband

Every thought about designer stubble, it takes a lot less time to get ready lol;-)

Joe said...

I think what frustrates many of us is we would simply assist the Police no matter how long it took to try and discover what happened to the child. If there was a point or points that needed clarification etc we would not need to have rogatory letters sent to force us to explain our statements. this is what makes this nonsense of " keen to be interviewed" so hollow and false. He means kicking and screaming .

Anonymous said...

Nick is Tinkerballs from the hell blog. She is too stupid to even realize we would figure it out. They were the ones ranting about how sorry it was that people turned to Viv's site and they are the ones trying to get Viv and alsabella to fall out. They are also the one's that seem very bothered by the Portuguese speakers, who I have a feeling speak the language just to take a p** out of them since they get so hot and bothered with it.

Tinkerballs is so stupid. Notice she put up their article at precisely a few minuters before 6:25 in the morning...the time when "Nick" posted.

If she were not stupid she would realize that Viv endorses Alsabela's blog, she even has a link to it on this one!

These blogs are not about the number of posts. They are about being using their right to express themselves. On their s*** blog, they are the ones that waste time with one sentence posts trying to accumulate posts, so that they don't look like the sorry arses that they are.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11,03. you may be right you may be wrong but at least be fair. How do you expect people to debate about this case when they already know the answer "innocent" "the PJ are trash end of". They have nothing more to say so instead of taking a poll from the public in general to see public opinion, they take a poll on which Avatar Mum21 should use. Very mind stretching....At least on here even if we have got it all wrong we have opened our minds to all possibilities and everybody is united in Justice for Madeleine, even if that means her parents are guilty.

Anonymous said...

To annons

I have been reading all the blogs, and some are very interesting and others down right stupid. I was pleased to see on Sassypops site that Joncar is joining them when he returns from his holidays. Do you remember him? He was the ex supercop who once asked the question on the DX "How can a child have an accident in an apartment that would cause her death" He got about 30 answers within minutes and he then disappeared for days. I cannot wait for his mind blowing expert views when he returns.

Anonymous said...

Good morning Hope, glad you feel you can talk for Viv, isn't it bad enough she has had her blog taken over by people that are using her without you butting in to speak for her?
From what I have read of her, Viv can certainly speak for herself and will no doubt tell me where to go in no uncertain terms and I do not mind this, she can, it is her blog, but thatis the point isn't it is'her' blog and not Ana/Alsabella/Marla's (or Claudia's) and it is not fair and not socially acceptable to bulldoze her way in here take it over and make multiple posts in Portuguese, in fact it is just pig bloody ignorant.
When the A person (note the many A's in her names) decides to open her blog in a flurry of Hail Arsebella's, everyone will return there and leave Viv here on her own again with a few of her regular posters making pity posts and it is not very nice.
Now I don't like Viv, but this treatment of her is nasty and unpleasant and actually shows Alsabella/Marla/Ana for the user she really is.

Nick

Hi Nick, I agree with you it is not very pleasant what has happened here, in fact it is bad manners in the extreme and I never thought I would tick up for Viv, but this is just unfair and it is making Viv look foolish. Where was the 'A' person when Viv needed her the other week when her blog came under that disgusting attack? (secretly laughing up her sleeve at her).
I too had wondered what Portugal was like and thought I may visit one day with my family, but to be honest all I have read on here about poor little Madeleine is very distressing and very off putting, add to that the attitude of the Portuguese posters on here, well let's just say there are better more welcoming holiday destinations where I can spend my tax euros. No doubt we will get the usual 'catty' posts from the Portuguese posters, saying in their stupid childish manner "we don't want you in Portugal bah blah blah McCann's bad parents blah blah blah all you Eeeeenglish are all the same blah blah blah. Well that's OK if all us English are all the same and bad parents, perhaps all of us English should just stay away from Portugal? But I doubt the Portuguese Government and the Portuguese tourist board will see it in quite the same light. If the bad English parents all stay away and according to Alsabella/Marla/Ana, we English are all bad parents, then this is going to make a huge impact in Portugal's multi billion pound tourist industry and I have no doubt the people that depend on the Portuguese tourist industry for their living will see it in the same way as Alsabella/Marla/Ana, will they? All right for the 'A' woman to crow about who she wants and does not want in Portugal but according to her and her delusions she is rich and powerful and does not need money, talk about a selfish pig ignorant and arrogant attitude, but what do we expect from her?

Anonymous You are a joke mate, a real laff, do you think there is no one else using the internet at the same time? what is the matter with you people are you all delusional? Do you think you are the only ones? Moronic imbeciles. Whoever wrote that post, you would be better to read it and understand its message rather than play games, it is giving an important message. Listen pal Anonymous this may come as a shock to you but there are many people that use the net and many people that think like the anonymouses on here and you are doing no one any favours.

Alsabella/Marla/Ana herself goes in for IFF (Internet Fantasy Floating) ask her, she has loads of different IDs and they contain multiple 'As' it is a real laff.

SwedishMum said...

Hi ex dx,

I'm sure the so called pros on the "other" site are very pleased that Johncar is joining them. Personally I can't remember that he asked that question but I must confess to not being too surprised.

Neither am I surprised that he left in what seems to have been a hurry. I too would have disappeared if I had asked a question like that.

SwedishMum said...

Hi Viv,

I hope you're fine. I would also like to thank you for letting us all post here.

I found Alsabella's site a few weeks ago and am now confused to see that she (or someone else) seems to have put it on hold. I know that there were some really nasty posts on her blog the day before she wrote the article that is now the only thing left on her blog.

Do you (or anyone else) know if that's the reason why people can't post there anymore?

Cláudia said...

Hi, SM.
Alsa is fine and she will be back soon. Just wanted to let you know that.
Really have to fo now. I'm going out for lunch!
xxxxxx

SwedishMum said...

Hi Claudia,
Lovely to see you, am soon off to bed myself. Anyway, have a nice lunch!
(And thank you for telling me about Alsabella)

xxxxx

Anonymous said...

Hi Swedish Mum, I can assure you he did ask that question because I couldn't believe it and read it twice to make sure I was not mistaking him. I could have understood it had it just come from a man, but a cop!! I thought they were trained to figure out those sort of things themselves and after his supposed 25 year experience he would have experienced child deaths by accident.

I see there is an annon slamming someone for speaking for Viv then doing just that her/himself. I think if Viv does not want ex Alsabella posters on here she has enough guts to speak out for herself. Also I do not think the Portuguese have condemned all British parents and IMO it is therefore wrong to condemn all Portuguese just because one of them obviously has irritated.

Off now as I am sure nobody is interested in what I think anyway

Anonymous said...

You got that wrong AnnonAlroy, I am not a cop and never was but my powers of deduction are obviously better than yours mate

Unknown said...

Morning all

Thanks to the reasonable posters but to those who have just taken the opportunity to make the most absurd and even racist posts in my absence - shame on you. Just like the McCanns you have your consciences to live with.

I am not going to go through and delete them all. I will leave them as a tribute to those who support Kate and Gerry McCann. I would remind everyone this blog has never been about seeing how many posts I could amass, it has been about having a sensible discussion about what happened to little Madeleine McCann. It is sad that I need to remind people about that as some descent into such hate and nastiness, all apparently in the cause of an innocent little girl. If she could grow up, and read your posts what on earth would she think. I suggest you think about that.

As this thread has now reached such a massive length I am putting a fresh post on. I have chosen an article I saw above, which clearly indicates back in September even Branson withdrew his support from the McCanns. I think it is worthwhile considering in terms of their desperate bids for money of late.

To all reasonable posters, I am back, monitoring this board.

Viv x

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
SwedishMum said...

Ex dx,

I'm quite sure many here are interested in your views, so I don't think you have to leave on that account.

I agree with you re the Portuguese posters (the ones I know of), they don't condemn ALL British parents and saying that they do is really dishonest.

And I agree with you regards Viv as well, she's always seemed to me to be a woman quite capable to speak for herself and to say otherwise could be seen as an insult to her.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
SwedishMum said...

Oops, seems like I've touched a raw nerve, Anonymous.
Well, at least I don't feel the need to hide behind "Anonymous".

Gina said...

Swedish Mum I have just read that very offensive post to you and take my advice, take it as a compliment. I have observed the same poster systematically posting the same trash to other posters that are respected by many. It is just a ploy to stop those they fear posting. It has not worked with others, it has only made them more determined to continue. Be like them and ignore people who have a lot to say but no courage to put a name to their post. Take care really must go now. xx

SwedishMum said...

Gina,
I'm not that easily frightened - but I must admit that it's kind of tiresome to read such c r a p from someone who doesn't even have the guts to stand for his/her opinion.

You take care too and have a nice day,
xxx

Unknown said...

Welcome Swedishmum and I am really sorry about the thuggish behaviour to get you to promptly leave, please do not be intimidated by this.

I have now posted the new thread which will be monitored and unreasonable posts deleted as they appear.

Viv x

SwedishMum said...

Thanks Viv,

I really must go to bed now, but will be back later and read your and other's comments.
(And, no, not intimidated, have a pretty good idea as to who the "anonymous" may have been. There were 2 or 3 really nasty ones on DE and I suppose it must have been one of them).

Once again,
Thanks!

Unknown said...

Hiya Swedishmum

Yes, it is just a small handful of thugs and we always have a good idea which one, having got very used to them from DE days.

Sleep well and look forward to hearing from you later.

Luv Viv x

SwedishMum said...

Viv,

xxx

hope4truth said...

Anon

Actualy I can say what ever I wish to say and was replying to Nick who I have spoken to before (would be intresting if Nick is Tinkerbell allways respected her on the DX) nothing wrong with a diffrence of opinion...

My opinion is you should never ever leave children alone at any time day or night xxx

Unknown said...

Hello Hope darling

WE all agree with you on that. Parents who would abandon tiny children every single night when they are on holiday and supposed to be having a good time, just like their parents, are very selfish and abusive parents, who demonstrate a complete lack of concern for their childrens welfare.

New thread on!

Luv viv x

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Hi!

I've found you at last.
Morning Viv :-)
Thanks for being our host here.

Although I had been reading the Dx, it was only in January I began to comment there on this case. Then on Alsa's blog.

I am a Portuguese on behalf of the truth so it is for me sometimes difficult to understand some posters points of view on this case except of course when it is too obvious that they are not for real in some blogs and not in search of the truth no matter what it will be.

From my point of view the parents and friends commitetd the crime of neglect and should have paid for that. As far as the child died on that night, we have to trust the PJ and if they have evidence of that ,let them do their work.

Most Portuguese think that there is sth unclear in all this otherwise they would have stayed in Pt and cooperated with the police in the searchs and by answering all the questions they refused to answer.

The support they had at the beginning was a sign of teh Portuguese character toward genuine feelings and dispair but as time went by people felt they were in some way being fooled with the all circus and now the support is dedicated 100% to Madeleine and to the truth.

I personally think the PJ must have evidence otherwise it would be useless their departure to the UK.

Cheers!

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Hi!

I've found you at last.
Morning Viv :-)
Thanks for being our host here.

Although I had been reading the Dx, it was only in January I began to comment there on this case. Then on Alsa's blog.

I am a Portuguese on behalf of the truth so it is for me sometimes difficult to understand some posters points of view on this case except of course when it is too obvious that they are not for real in some blogs and not in search of the truth no matter what it will be.

From my point of view the parents and friends commitetd the crime of neglect and should have paid for that. As far as the child died on that night, we have to trust the PJ and if they have evidence of that ,let them do their work.

Most Portuguese think that there is sth unclear in all this otherwise they would have stayed in Pt and cooperated with the police in the searchs and by answering all the questions they refused to answer.

The support they had at the beginning was a sign of teh Portuguese character toward genuine feelings and dispair but as time went by people felt they were in some way being fooled with the all circus and now the support is dedicated 100% to Madeleine and to the truth.

I personally think the PJ must have evidence otherwise it would be useless their departure to the UK.

Cheers!

Margarida Cruz e Silva said...

Sorry!
Clicked 2wice!

hope4truth said...

Hi Marga

There is a new thread that everyone has moved to (if you havent found it already) above this one on the main page x

2345 said...

Felicity,

You've got mail.

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