13 Jan 2008

SCOTLAND YARD TOO CLEVER FOR THE MCCANNS TASTES?

Ah so let us be clear now Mr Hogan hired by the McCanns and paid for from the Find Maddie Fund has been hired to discredit police evidence against the parents - in other words defend them. Is this why the fund will soon run out and they need some more money then?

I also find it odd that we seem to be getting all this talk, all of a sudden that Madeleine has been murdered? Mr Hogan is conducting a "murder investigation".. Oh dear - it is only a few weeks since the McCanns were again telling us they knew she was out there somewhere and of course the Retardos knew who had her and would get her back for Christmas. I wonder what brought that dramatic turnaround in their thinking.

Sadly, just like the Retardos, Mr Hogan does not have the requisite skills or expertise to investigat a murder or a missing child. So, let me guess the strategy being employed here - get the most useless investigators you can find and that way they will not find anything - unless we instruct them to. Oh right then - understood Ludicrous! Did you get rid of all those top solicitors because they were clever people as well who just knew too much or was that purely a financial dilemma?

I included your comment Alsabella because as ever, it was a good one, you would think that parents in the McCanns unfortunate situation with their daughter abducted, would be absolutely insisting on Scotland Yard getting involved - using all their political muscle - or would they be too clever as well>>Viv x



MADELEINE: FEARS DETECTIVE NOT UP TO JOB

Maddie has been missing since May
Sunday January 13,2008
By Matt Drake
Have your say(21)
A former Scotland Yard detective hired to search for Madeleine McCann is conducting a private murder investigation to discredit police evidence against her parents.
But last night fears were raised that Noel Hogan might not be up to the job.
Mr Hogan, who runs a private detective agency, has re-interviewed British witnesses including the McCannsí holiday friends. He is also understood to have gone through the McCanns’ own statements in minute detail with the couple.
In a startling twist, Kate and Gerry’s lawyers have ordered that their own inquiry into Madeleineís disappearance, while on holiday in Portugal last May, should focus on the theory that the three-year-old was killed and her body hidden.
Hogan International, which specialises in asset investigations, is taking over the case after the McCannsí benefactors voiced dismay at the lack of tangible progress made by the Spanish agency Metodo 3.
Sources close to the inquiry say† the two firms have a history of rivalry after previously clashing over conflicting investigations.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday Express, Mr Hogan revealed that his previous experience of missing people cases was limited to tracing beneficiaries of wills.


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He also admitted that despite the high profile of the Madeleine investigation, his 12-strong team of former detectives and ex-SAS men were already handling around 5,000 cases.
Speaking from his office in a rundown tower block in Aldershot, Hants, Mr Hogan refused to say how much he was being paid. He said: ‘I don’t want to become part of the circus surrounding Madeleine. I am not allowed to go into operational detail and I just do what I am told.
‘We deal with all matters of investigation, but it is true that normally the missing people we deal with are those who have inherited something and then disappeared. We have never dealt with a missing child.
‘I am not going to boast about success rates like Metodo 3, because that did nobody a favour. We have one office and there are 12 people who work here. If I need to I can bring other people in.
‘When the police have a big case† they do not stop investigating all the others they are working on.
‘I have a lot of people who I know who are ex-policemen and know how to handle a criminal investigation.
‘The Portuguese police have put a complete closedown on any facts. Normally in this country you would have a liaison officer with the family.’
Another former Scotland Yard officer, who has given unofficial advice to the McCanns, from Rothley, Leicestershire, last night voiced his concern at the appointment. He said: ìI cannot understand why they have chosen to go with Mr Hogan because he simply does not have the resources or the back-up to conduct a major investigation.
ìThe advice I have given to the McCanns was to urge them to request a meeting with Scotland Yard and to ask them to take over the British side of the investigation. The Yard has a very sophisticated and well-resourced kidnap squad, which deals with more than 300 abductions a year, far more than any other force in Britain. Forces from around the world turn to them for advice.
ìMy view is that the McCanns should not waste money with private investigators but should get the best police in Britain on the job.
ìI think the role of Leicestershire Police is confused. At first they sent officers to Portugal to offer liaison assistance to the McCanns but now it appears they are investigating them on behalf of the Portuguese. It has become a mess.î
Last night Mr Hogan retorted: ìI was in Surrey Police for four years and the Met after that. I finished top of my CID course but decided to leave to start my own business.
ìI am not a disgraced former policeman. I deal in professional investigations and I have been doing this a long time.î
Control Risks Group, which is advising the investigation on behalf of the McCannsí billionaire backer Brian Kennedy, are also reported have taken on a larger role.
But no significant new lines of inquiry are being examined and, despite an overwhelming response to their Christmas appeal, the McCanns have been advised to focus on their own defence.
A source close to the family said: ìThe investigation is working towards a resolution and we have to consider that Madeleine may have been murdered.
ìWe have been working to the theory she may have been killed and all the possible scenarios are being considered.†
ìOf course we hope very much that she is alive but nothing can be ruled out.î
Eight months after Madeleine vanished, Portuguese detectives have made it clear they think Kate and Gerry staged an abduction in an attempt to provide a smokescreen for a more sinister crime.




FOR ONCE I AGREE WITH ROSIEPOPS
13.01.08, 3:34am
Scotland Yard should be called in if they haven't been already. They are an excellent force and I am sure they would be a great asset to the investigation.I cannot for the life of me understand why the parents of a missing child would not have already requested this. If i were me and I knew my child was missing, I would call every law enforcement agency with experience in these matters and request their help. Their failure to do so, makes me wonder precisely the same as other posters...could they be worried about what Scotland Yard may find out?Anyway, I remember a while back hearing that Mr Rebelo was in contact with Scotland Yard but I am not sure as to the extent of those contacts and involvement.As for Mr. Hogan, I have no clue who he is, but he gets points in my book for not being a loudmouth like Francisco Marco from Metodo 3. He seems like an upfront person: told the press right off the bat that he is a 12 man operating team and that his experience tracking missing people is relative to inheritances.It is about time someone straightforward and honest joins in on this investigation. Whether he is good at his work or bad, will be later seen. For now, I see him as a breath of fresh air someone more interested in doing his job than in spin and newspapers.
• Posted by: alsabelIaReport Comment


YEP

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

As a high-profile case, it is my understanding that Scotland Yard will be involved in the questionning along with the Leicestershire Police, when the PJ return to the UK to re-interview the McCanns and their Tapas friends. I have read that Scotland Yard will include a variety of experts to observe these interviews.

It is also my understanding that Scotland Yard has been working closely with the PJ for some time on the Madeleine McCann case.

Anonymous said...

sunday mirror

Tapas crew in despair at all the lies!

docmac said...

Hi anon

"The leaks have variously claimed that the group will have to be re-questioned, that some might be treated as suspects and that some have changed their stories."

All true, no problems there then. I read this piece and can not imagine why that headline was chosen, as the only reference to lying that is made in the article is that Jane Tanner was upset at being called a liar. I suppose I might also be upset if I were found to be a liar.

Anonymous said...

Docmac, Hope you are back on form.

Why do you think the 2 are so complicit in the cover up...more than mere friends????

Anymore news yet.?

docmac said...

Anon I am very much back on form thanks. No more news yet, I'm afraid. By the 2 I assume you mean O'Brien and Tanner? Well, as the Tapas 1's new testimony revealed that Tanner never left the table and the call to the GNR was delayed because of O'Brien's late return from his 'duties' I would think they are complicit in more than just a cover up. I would venture that this makes them accomplices. See you later maybe, I have to go house-hunting.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your reply docmac.........Just can't get my head round why mere friends would go to this extreme.

Anonymous said...

forgot to add yes I do believe other 2 will face charges in the future.....just theorising WHY they would be so 'helpful'

Anonymous said...

I can't understand the dynamics of this group that they would cover up the death of a child.

eureka said...

Hi Viv, how terribly deceitful this wicked story is becoming. I think whereas Metodo3 appeared to be about keeping the 'abduction theory' alive and the money rolling in, it hasn't worked. If the Mcs realise that there is very credible evidence that the child is dead and they have been advised to look to their defence, then they desperately need a credible alternative to them being involved. That seems to be what Mr Hogan is there to find. God bless Maddy.

lizzy said...

Alsabella
Good point you would imagine that the parents of any child who they feared had been abducted would
request the services of Scotland Yard, however these parents seem more interested in hiring people without much experience in finding missing children, now they are hiring Mr Hogan not to search for Madeleine but to discredit police evidence. Doesn't look to me as if they are overly concerned with finding a missing daughter but the priority appears to be to clear them and absolve them of any blame.

Cláudia said...

Hi, dear Viv!
Your post is very interesting. Up until now I always thought that Madeleine lost her life due to a terrible, unfortunate accident. And I also thought that her little body would never be found, because of the challenge made by that thing that calls himself his father (Find her body and proove we killed her). However, this new turn makes me wonder. So now, all of a sudden, they think that she was murdered? Why? Didn't Metodo 3 know where she was, who had taken her and weren't they going to return her? Wasn't she kidnapped, alive and kept by someone somewhere? I'm starting to think that maybe it wasn't such an accidental death after all. And maybe they are afraid that her body will be found. It seems like they are already trying to come up with excuses for what might be found. Is it possible that the PJ is so close?

Beijinhos, minha querida!

Anonymous said...

Doctordoom's post re. Scotland Yard

http://www.express.co.uk/comments/view/154465

felicity said...

Hiya All

I think we seem to be agreed the McCanns now fear the PJ may actually find the body and so now, for the very first time the McCanns start talking about Maddie having been murdered. I think it is likely the PJ are close and they will find serious trauma to her head. I also do not think there can be any doubt who caused that trauma.

I am putting a separate post up re the piece in the Daily Mail that the McCanns have been told no film can be made about Maddie without a conclusion - e.g. she must be found dead or alive. So all this talk about they will use the proceeds from the film to carry on looking for her is absolute hogwash! Just like everything else they come up with. Further, as Clarence confirmed on a BBC interview the only reason Gerry is so upset about an agency offering Maddie look alikes is because they did not consult him and are not offering any of the profits to the so called "Find Maddie Fund". The man is the most repulsive fraudster determined to get rich following killing his own daughter. He will go down in history as the epitome of evil IMO.

Viv x

felicity said...

HIYA Anon

Thanks so much for the link to DocDooms post on the DE. I understand he is an American journalist and gives us a great insight into press spin etc. Generally his posts are really interesting and useful - that is why copy it below- it would be great if he would come on here if someone could ask him nicely....

Cheers Viv x

This is not Scotland Yard's territory...
Published: Sunday January 13,2008 by DoctorDoom
For the benefit of our overseas readers and those British who seem to think Scotland Yard is some sort of stand-alone police investigation elite, let's be clear about a few points.

Scotland Yard, or New Scotland Yard to give it its correct title, is the headquarters of the Metropolitan Police Service, responsible for policing Greater London, excluding the City of London.

Scotland Yard has no particular jurisdiction with regard to this case, which is the affair of the PJ in Portugal and, to the extent that the McCanns live in Leicestershire, the Leicestershire police. Other forces with expertise, like the South Yorkshire police sniffer dogs, may be called upon to offer specialist services.

The Met could be so-called upon to offer specialist assistance but there is absolutely no reason to to do given the two official police forces involved have the case in hand.

One thing is for certain, as other posters have already observed: this is the first thing Team McCann would ask for if they were genuine, and the very last if they were not.

The problem with official police inquiries is of course that they cannot be paid to produce the desired results...

Given the McCanns' friends in high places it is hardly likely a request for Scotland Yard to review the case would be rejected out of hand.
Were the Met to become formally involved it is safe to presume the PJ would work closely with them as they previously have with the Leicestershire and South Yorkshire constabularies.

Instead Clarence and company deliberately turn to private agencies with NO experience of finding missing children (and let's be clear, the McCanns KNOW this to be so when they take them on).

These private agencies, by definition, can have no acess to the PJ's files or the information Leicestershire police have, and therefore can ONLY act on information provided by the prime suspects, who just happen to be paying them huge amounts of money...

Anonymous said...

Viv there are a few good posts by Docdoom

http://www.express.co.uk/users/profile/DoctorDoom

Still trying to get some views on WHY JT and ROB would help out with such extreme measures....JUST FRIENDS?????????? or something more linking them to G and K.

felicity said...

Hiya Anon

There seems to be an ongoing discussions about taxation of the fund. See the comment I found below that seems to be relevant. So it would appear that donations may not be taxable but interest earned, and monies from sale of wrist bands, interviews etc would be taxable. It also says tax may be paid on excess at the end of the financial year. So are they trying to dissipate the fund before April to avoid tax liability? Doc and I have clearly implied that the alleged payments to Metodo 3 may be money laundering to filter money back to the McCanns. I note that it is Mr Smethurst, Clarence and the McCanns who directly control the activities of Metodo 3 rather than the "directors". All of this leaves a very bad smell hanging in the air....Viv x

Non-charitable voluntary organisations
Some voluntary organisations are not registered charities, and so do not qualify for tax exemptions. Organisations may find that they have to pay tax on any surplus at the end of the financial year. However, if such organisations have income from voluntary sources, then this is not trading and not taxable. This would include gifts, donations, legacies and grants. If the organisation has some trading activity, such as the sale of publications, then it is possible to prepare a tax computation for that activity. This should bring in the direct costs and a proportion of the overheads to arrive at the taxable profit figure. The taxable profit is often very low, and so the tax payable not significant. The organisation will, however, have to pay tax on interest earned, and no exemption from this is available for non-charitable voluntary organisations..

lizzy said...

Viv,
I think that is a likely scenario that the Mccanns are now seeming to turn towards the murder theory as maybe the PJ are very close to finding the body and they are covering their own backs with leaked stories about the Resevoir, to me this is more than covering up an accident, they are determined that they will not be found guilty and will do anything to steer blame away from them,hopefully the police will have enough to charge them.

Dylan05 said...

Thnaks Viv,
I wish I'd had you to represent me as well. Good luck with your case. I like to see the little fish win, often they're the smartest! You know - I take your point about it not helping your ankles, and I'm sorry for that but I'm sure, like me, you believe it's not so much the compensation money (although it helps) but the recognition by the organisation that they have done wrong by you. My union rep also asked for a letter of apology to me - they couldn't even do that and it was that that smarted the most. B*******s!

All - gosh! I've only been away for day and there's loads of great posts and not much time to comment!

I was particularly interested in the interview with Kate. The observations are spot-on but I'd like to add a couple of things too:

When a person tells a really big lie (I have as a kid and I'm sure most people have too!) and they're so afraid of being caught on it, he/she will tend to "rehearse" a story in their head, almost as a way to justify to themselves what they have done but also to protect themselves from the trouble that the lie could bring if found out.
I could check with my friend here, but I'm sure that psychologists would say that after you have told yourself this story so many times, you begin to believe this version of events rather than the truth.
This is a very human process which is a bit like adopting the foetal position for your thoughts.

Several things that Kate says seems to support this. With the "taking herself out of the picture and referring to emotions as "you would", "one would" & "they would" instead of "I feel", I think betrays her. It's almost as though she has indeed convinced herself that that's not something she is feeling because she has removed herself, effectively, from the big, bad lie monster.

Also, she says "really" on several occasions. This is a self reassuring response. She's not trying to convince the audience but IMHO, she is trying to convince HERSELF. Over and over again, she must have to keep up this mantra or else the lie monster might escape!
I will ask my friend though, she could say this is a load of shite! - really!!!!

I read in the DE today re the detective story, that one of the things he has already done to date with them is to go through their police question answers with them! Why would they do that?! Surely if disproof is what they are looking for then finding madeleine must be the best proof? In the absence of that, actually hiring someone who does have some missing children experience?

Ho hum, loads to comment on and not enough time. My son now wants the computer, ahh the cheek of the kids!!!

Take care all you good people,

Dilly x

lmcg said...

Hi, it is absolutley terrible over on the DE forum tonight. I have read through 10 pages of bickering nonsence. Oh well I did find one worthwhile post for Doctor Doom and will post it here incase he ever pops in!

Bye for now x


NOTE TO DR. DOOM
13.01.08, 10:10pm

Regarding investigations into the Madeleine McCann disappearance.

I'm a member of another discussion forum and have been convinced for months that a courageous investigative reporter is more important at this point than another "private investigator" on the level of Metado3. We have discussed, at length, the connections between the McCanns/Tapas group, people currently serving on the Board of the Find Maddy Fund, etc. to the nuclear power industry. An investigative reporter with the ability to actually have articles *published* needs to dig into this. It is timely (check today's front pages regarding the decision to sub out the nuclear power plant production to *private* contractors) and it would explain the over involvement of the British government on behalf of the McCanns.

If not you, then *someone*.

Regards from the Mirror Forum...

• Posted by: Roisin • Report Comment

felicity said...

Hiya All

Lizzy I completely agree - Gerry and Claris only feed things into the press for their own self serving reasons. Wanting to do a film..cannot do that until the body is found..or until their arguido status is lifted ...or as Claris says well we will talk about something else then e.g. no amber alert system in Europe and the latest talk of Madeleine being murdered - we can draw our own conclusions...they certainly seem to be offering a reason for injury to Madeleine and finding a way through to making a film and lots of money! WE are told the McCanns look forward to being re-interviewed but are not prepared to go back to Portugal to do so unless their arguido status is lifted - that does not sound very co-operative does it - and will cause delay - rogatory letters /arrangements with uk ETC not to mention the expense! If they had nothing to hide and wanted to assist the enquiry they would go back! They must think we are all so stupid - but we are not..and if Jo Public can see right through them you can bet PJ/Leics police do to - particularly with all the additional information we are not privy too.

Dylan - thanks so much for all your good wishes..

I think you make a very good point about rehearsing lies - we hear a lot of stock phrases from Kate, Gerry and Ludicrous e.g. our beautiful daughter, I notice Rosie trots out the same lines as well e.g. Claris has just claimed there was a listening service in PDL and their own listening service was better - we have heard this lie till we are blue in the face from Maudlin and Rosie. And it is frankly staggering in all the circumstances that they could say they were undertaking a good child care service! On their own account they checked just twice all night and in between those checks she got "abducted"...I cannot wait for the day when they have to repeat all these sickening lies before a judge. If in the UK what would a jury make of it when evidence is produced there was no listening service anyway! Both forms of care offered - they rejected - I also recall they had booked a babysitter but then cancelled about 6pm on 3 May..if this is correct presumably it is because Mark Warner had to fetch them from Chaplins the night before to a crying little Maddie and so to placate they booked the babysitting service but then killed her and cancelled it again...

LMCG

I had a look at the DE earlier on - but it was the usual mindless, offensive, repetitive, intensely boring rubbish and so I did not hang around for long. Anyone wanting a decent discussion is clearly going to the wrong place with that little bunch of twits lurking and ready to pounce!

Nite Nite all and thanks so much for all of your interesting posts

LUV Viv x

carol jenkins said...

"SUNDAY EXPRESS – Page 9 – 24 February 2008


QUOTE “Hogan International: an apology

On January 13 we published an article headed “Fears that new Maddie detective is ‘not up to task’” in which we wrongly claimed that Noel Hogan’s investigation agency had taken over the private investigation into Maddie’s disappearance and accused it of being “not up to the task.”

We wish to withdraw unequivocally the suggestion that either Mr Hogan or his agency are incompetent or had misled the McCanns about their capabilities. We are happy to clarify that Mr Hogan’s company has been retained by Metodo 3, the Spanish agency who work for the McCanns, to carry out work in the UK.

This is part of a long-standing arrangement between the two agencies to instruct each other for work in their respective countries. The impression we gave that there is animosity between them and that Mr Hogan breached professional confidences was also wrong.

We apologise to Mr Hogan for the embarrassment and distress caused by our article and have agreed to pay him and his agency compensation and legal costs.”

Only available in hardcopy