3 Jan 2008

KATE AND GERRY PRIME SUSPECTS


Madeleine: Police name Gerry and Kate McCann as PRIME suspectsBy VANESSA ALLEN - on 3rd January 2008
DAILY MAIL
Comments (127)
• Portugese police report to be handed to prosecutors
• Blow to Gerry and Kate McCann's hopes of being cleared
A secret police dossier has accused Kate and Gerry McCann of accidentally killing their daughter and hiding her body, it was claimed yesterday. The couple faked four-year-old Madeleine's abduction, according to a leaked report on the eight-month police investigation.
The two doctors remain the chief suspects in her "accidental homicide" and could also be accused of staging her disappearance, the Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manha reported.
Scroll down for more...

No end to the torment: Gerry McCann and his wife Kate, pictured yesterday at the couple's home in Rothley, Leicestershire
In addition, the couple have been warned they could remain suspects for another 20 years.
Publicly, the couple's lawyers dismissed the leaked report as a fake, insisting they had not expected them to be cleared yesterday as an eight-month legal deadline in the case expired.
Privately, however, friends admitted the McCanns, both 39, would be "desperately disappointed" if the dossier were genuine as it showed Portuguese police had not changed their position in the four months since the couple were named as official suspects, or arguidos.
They had hoped the new head of the investigation, Paulo Rebelo, had moved away from the theory that Madeleine died in their care on May 3 last year.

Arguido: Robert Murat's lawyer has called on the courts to end his client's 'suffering'The file was due to be submitted to the public prosecutor today, Correio da Manha reported, along with legal documents requesting that the couple's friends, who were on holiday with them at Praia da Luz, face fresh police interrogations.
Lawyer Edward Smethurst, who is co-ordinating the McCanns' defence, said the couple and their seven friends remained willing to be requestioned.
He said the legal team had not been told about the police dossier or about access to any other documents in the case, which are covered by Portugal's strict secrecy laws.
Mr Smethurst said: "Any report about the leaked document we believe is completely without substance. We think it arises out of pure speculation on the part of the Portuguese papers."
The couple were offered a glimmer of hope from the leaked report, which said police could not rule out the possibility that Madeleine was abducted, as they have insisted.
But the other named suspect in the case, British expat Robert Murat, 34, faced disappointment as his arguido status was not lifted.
There had been widespread speculation that he could be cleared yesterday, eight months to the day since Madeleine disappeared.
Mr Murat's lawyer Francisco Pagarete called on the courts to end his client's "suffering".
He added: "I think the police have gathered more than enough evidence to conclude that he has nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance."
Scroll down for more...

Crime scene: Portuguese police outside the McCanns' apartment in Praia da Luz on the day after Madeleine (below) vanished last May
But legal experts warned the former property consultant, who has a daughter who lives with his ex-wife in Britain, will not be cleared while her parents remain arguidos.
They said the Portuguese courts were "very unlikely" to split the investigation and clear one suspect without deciding whether to charge or release the others from suspicion.
McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "If this report is true and this interim police report exists, then we believe it contains nothing new.
"We will continue to push for Kate and Gerry to be eliminated from the police inquiry and in turn for the prosecutor to lift their arguido status as soon as possible."
The McCanns believe their daughter was abducted and is being held in Morocco.
Their private detective agency Metodo 3 is investigating this theory.
Leading Portuguese lawyer Antonio Martins said that without a breakthrough the case could "drag on for as long as the prosecuting counsel sees fit".
He said: "The problem is that nobody knows what type of crime was committed. If it was homicide then the case could be kept open for the next 20 years."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why would Paulo Rebelo move away from the theory these two are the prime suspects? Goncalo Amaral the previous officer in the case had gathered all the evidence - how could this be ignored? As often happens with people who have got themselves into serious trouble - they think if they persist in some foolish belief long enough i.e they can discredit Mr Amaral - they can get themselves out of trouble. They may have convinced themselves - it is good to hear they are now facing reality!
Quite right they may remain suspects for up to 20 years - this has frequently happened in the UK where the police know the culprit but do not have sufficient evidence. We have had two recent cases where, after 15 years, the suspect has finally been brought to justice. That should put an end to their sick aspirations to make loads of money with films, books and interviews.
It is extraordinary to hear that Edward Smethurst is the solicitor co-ordinating their defence. I previously posted on the Daily Express his profile from the Law Society website. He has no experience in criminal law whatsoever. This seems to demonstrate the McCanns desperate position with no funds to pay for high quality lawyers who deal with criminal cases and may offer an explanation for how badly things have been handled. I note Mr Smethurst was overseeing the instruction of Metodo 3 - some "defence" that has proved to be!
It is very disappointing for Mr Murat, if true, but in a way entirely understandable, I did wonder how they could release him without comprising the investigation against the McCanns and there still remains the possibility of course that he is involved in some way, although I have always thought this unlikely. He clearly is linked to Gerry and his friends which obviously gets him into the investigation. I think this may be rather more to do with their attempts to frame him and pervert the course of justice but clearly he needs to be kept quiet!
Quite how Clarence Mitchell can say the new report contains "nothing new" after a further four months of painstaking investigation is beyond me. The man has no better idea of what the report contains that any of us and makes himself a laughing stock with his absurd remarks. As Mr Smethurst says - they have not been consulted by the police at all! We seem to be getting different members of the camp coming up with different comments which hardly assists their case - including the two aunts very recently Norah and Janet - see my December posts. Norah insisted just before Christmas the Portuguese police were no longer interested in the McCanns - wishful thinking!
It is ominous that prosecuting counsel says 'if it is homicide'!
Viv

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

changed days - 127 comments and no censorship.

Anonymous said...

changed days - 127 comments and no censorship.

felicity said...

Hi Anon

Yes I applaud the Daily Mail for changing their stance on this - in the early days we all noted that if you tried to post a comment that did not favour the McCanns then they did not print it. Now they are accurately reflecting public opinion - I think the two below sum it up rather succinctly:

I think everyone that has followed this case from day one suspected that the McCanns were definitely in the frame.

If it is proven that they have misled the public and the Police then I have not encountered individuals that morally could stoop so low.

The other appalling aspect is their desire for celebrity. It has to stop.

- Linda, England

Who on earth ever thought, apart from the McCanns with their intimidating press releases, that their "arguido" status would be lifted?

- Annie, York England

Good to hear from you again

Viv x

LMcG said...

Hi Viv, I am really enjoying reading your blog. Have tried to post before but to no avail, will see if this works!

Ironside keeps talking of a 3 arguidos forum, I can't find it. Could you or he direct me there please?

Keep up the good work Viv, you are doing well cutting through all the rubbish :) x

lmcg said...

Yay it worked!!

Anonymous said...

MCCANNS ARE MAIN SUSPECTS SAY POLICE

Friday 4th January 2008
Daily Express.


http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/30313/McCanns-are-main-suspects-say-Police

*Justice for Maddie*


Ecolab

lizzyw said...

hi Viv,
Site is excellent, hope I get this right this time as my last post doesn't seen to have got to you. Am not very technical so might no be able to work this out.
De is getting worse is a nightmare with Rosie and her obnoxious gang, especially late at night they are horrible to anybody who dares to disagree with them. I ignore tham as a rule.

felicity said...

Hiya LMCG


So glad you made it! I am really pleased you are enjoying the blog and now you have found me really look forward to your posts.


Luv viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Eco

Thanks very much for the link to the DE - they always seem to be second to the DM with the story dont they!

I will get across in a min and have a look but this site has been keeping me nice and busy tonight with new arrivals!

Thanks very much for all the research and posts you do - I really appreciate it!

CHEERS
VIV X

docmac said...

Hi lmcg and lizzyw

Viv will reply to you but just remember that old women with bad ankles need their rest :-).

There is lots of fun as well as serious discussion to be had on this blog. All without fear of being torn apart (or so they believe) by the intellectual lightweights on the DE forum.

Nice to see you both. I hardly ever go onto the DE any longer as when I put in an appearance the 'docwannabe' stuff starts and the whole team is called back from their cuppas. It got tiresome.

Sleep tight both, I am sure Viv will be along to welcome you.

felicity said...

HELLO LIZZY I am absolutely delighted you finally made it! Well done! I know you have been wanting to get on here. It is difficult to keep up with the tech isnt it - my determination to set up and run this site has meant a lot of studying for me - I was thrilled the other night when I learned how to put photos into posts because they make it much more interesting and helpful for everyone - sometimes as with the bruises on Kate's arm and the look on her face today pictures can tell a story so well.

I am really glad you like the site - but I am always open to suggestions as to improvements or what people want on here.

I have received several complaints tonight about the vile behaviour of Rosie and Co - you all have a safe and peaceful refuge here!

Welcome aboard

Luv Viv x

docmac said...

Shite you old dog, you beat me to it! Well, my sentiments were sincere anyway. Nite Chucky. I'll put the kettle on.

Goodness I do not miss that kind of childish banter.

Nite Viv. Love ya and keep up the good work.

felicity said...

Hey Doc - who is this old git with the bad ankles then? Hipsters? Popsicles? oh I know you must mean Maudlin right?

......What you cheeky Barsteward do you mean me?? How Very Dare You!

I got meself a cuppa and it is a good job you are in SA and not here - cuz I would wash your hair with it!

Ooops now you know I love you really!

Cheers for standing in for me sweety! Now bugger off...

Luv Viv xxx

felicity said...

Yea I know Doc - me and you would never be childish - now would we?


LOL

Nite Nite xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

docmac said...

What hair? lololol

Speak tomorrow again, you old cripple.

Goodnight to everyone else on here. Sleep tight.

felicity said...

Hey Doc

Are you off to polish your head then?

Steady on old boy!

I'll just hobble downstairs and get meself a cuppa - dont you worry about me I got me zimmer frame!

Nite Nite
Luv Viv x

CKH said...

Thought all y'all might be interested in the following post from the Mirror forum by a member who (allegedly) has 'insider' sources privy to certain details regarding the current investigation path:

------------------------
Posted by Coldwater
Jan 03, 2008 at 4:00pm

>>>>>> START <<<<<<<
Hello everybody.

I've been dabbling with my sources again and thought you might all like to hear the distilled information they have imparted to me - (that which I can reveal, obviously).

Firstly I think it important to say that this investigation is nowhere near closure. As many will know, charges will only arrive when the investigation is officially at an end and not before.

Right now the investigation is focusing on May 2nd 10.00pm through to around 10.00pm May 3rd - a 24hr period in which it is now considered several crimes were committed.

The shift in emphasis to May 2nd is primarily due to the significant lack of independent evidence to support Maddy being seen alive during May 3rd by anyone outside of the TAPAS 9 - and even then only Oldfield actually 'saw' her. Maddy was not present at the creche or children's club. She did not eat with the others and there is NO CCTV footage of her anywhere in the complex or PDL at large beyond the afternoon of May 2nd.

It is also deemed of interest that Gerry missed his afternoon tennis session on May 3rd due to an 'Achilles' injury. It was his unannounced absence which actually drew Oldfield to the apartment and not Gerry asking him to check on Kate. Gerry was not present at the tennis courts and Oldfield went looking for him. Gerry was elsewhere entirely. It is now believed that Oldfield did NOT see Maddy during this brief visit.

The theory is now that Maddy died around midnight May 2nd and that her body was concealed in a bag - Gerry's lost/missing/never had one hold all, sports bag no less. It is believed that this bag was stored in another apartment during some part of May 3rd before initial disposal around the mid to late afternoon of May 3rd. The scent of death was well established and the clean up completed during this time frame. The apartment's cleaner was turned away on May 3rd by Kate McCann I am told.

The forensic material examined and the results are strong in places and weak in others. None are conclusive but highly indicative and along with other evidence form a persuasive case. It is no longer considered that Maddy's body was relocated using the Renault Scenic, but that items pertaining to her and taken from her body were removed, hidden in the tyre well and dumped elsewhere.

As previously reported the PJ have the bag Gerry is so keen now to deny all knowledge of. It is a damning piece of the jigsaw, but not the only one and not the best.

CCTV footage from MW's reception proves that the TAPAS 9 were, for the most part, lying about the frequency of their checks. This is considered an attempt by ALL TAPAS 9 to stall any charges of negligence. The investigation team are also aware of the attempt within the May 3rd confusion to blur the actual time and circumstances of Maddy's disappearance.

They all did eat at Chaplin's on May 2nd and they were contacted at Chaplin's by an employee of MW's with regard to the children - specifically the McCann children. This was followed up immediately upon their return to the MW complex.

Further questioning is to take place shortly and will encompass ALL TAPAS 9 elements, plus others. It is now expected that two others will be made or allowed to request Arguido/Arguida status. These two others are seen as complicit in the aftermath of events surrounding Maddy.

Again, as far as my information allows, I can say that there is NO suggestion of pedophile involvement in any way. The DNA of a North European does not mean that this came from semen or that there is any suggestion of sexual abuse. I think we should all sigh with relief over that. There have been errors in translation and information which may have lead some down this murky pathway.

This case is not finished yet and has a way to run. The culprits will not be found in Spain, Portugal or Morocco.

The above has been gleaned and distilled over Christmas from my three friends and sources. I can elucidate on some points but not others.

Source: http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=34680&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

>>>>>>> END <<<<<<<<

Boy, I'd hate to be in the shoes of K&G or JT&RO'B (reading between the lines that latter pair are the two "complicit" in the aftermath of Maddie's demise)

I wonder, then, will the UK also go after the McCanns for the fraud perpetrated against the citizens of the world in association with fund? Surely they can't be allowed to get away with that, or it would set a dangerous precedent where in future people will fake or commit crimes and then set up false "charities" to try and bilk the gullible public.

Justice for Madeleine is getting ever closer.

Ironside said...

LMCG..Here is the connection for the Three Arguidos.

http://the3arguidos.makeforum.org/

Ironside said...

Good Morning Docmac...Can you please explain through your medical experience,,,spinal fluid and in your opinion what may have happened to cause such an injury that spinal fluid would leak here is the info..to refresh your memory..

An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray attern, commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx....Some DNA Samples found related to cerebral fluids surrounding neck (cerebro spinal fluid ) indicates a broken neck or fractured skull.....this was reported once and not repeated.....

Ironside said...

Docmac and Viv...Watch out...you could be the new Morcambe and Wise...catch you later

Ironside said...

Morning Viv a little info for you...I do not share much now with
the DX...so will leave this here....

3.1.08
Police has new evidence against Madeleine's parents

Investigation about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from a quiet resort at Praia da Luz had “important developments” in the last weeks, after a Portuguese police team met with Leicestershire police and representatives from Forensic Science Service, the British laboratory where samples collected at the crime scene are being analysed.

On a preliminary report about the case, recently sent to the Public Prosecutor's Office, Polícia Judiciária (PJ) states that the parents remain the main suspects. Among other pieces of new evidence, there is a specific phone call and several messages, send from Ocean Resort, that are classified by investigators as “highly incriminating” Gerry and Kate McCann.

The same evidence also gave indications about how the body of Madeleine McCann could have been taken from the apartment and disposed of. Today, it was confirmed by a source from the Public Prosecutor's Office that a request to extend the time limit for the case will be filed, with the Criminal Court, before January 14, eight months after the first formal suspect was named.

Questions for the friends

The Tapas Group, the friends who had dinner with the McCann on May 3rd, will be questioned again soon, as a formal request to the British Home Office is ready. Police wants to clarify, first, contradictory statements about the night of May 3rd, and PJ detectives would like to interrogate Gerry and Kate before the end of January – something that will depend from the time Home Office and British police will take to proceed with the questionings.

Among many details that are confuse or contradictory, Police sources refer the fact that witnesses confirm they saw Gerry McCann and Russell O'Brien going inside apartment 5A to check the three children sleeping there. The McCann spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, is already preparing public opinion for a new interrogation of Madeleine's parents and yesterday told British Media that Kate and Gerry would be pleased to clarify “misunderstandings” related with their previous statements.

New detectives hired

Hogan International, a company specialized in asset investigations, is reviewing Madeleine's case, working in coordination with Metodo 3, the Spanish detectives company that announced recently they knew who kidnapped Madeleine and promised to find her before Christmas. Sources close to the McCann supporters say that the six-month contract with Metodo 3, which ends around March, will not be renewed and Hogan International will replace them, in the private investigation set up by the McCann, following advise from Control Risk Group.

The McCann legal team has asked private investigators to concentrate in specific details of the investigation related with Police evidence of Madeleine's death and his body disposal, instead of following leads about sightings or other information related with a possible abductor.
Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis
Version Française
Editor's Note:

The increase of “troll” activity following the teaser I posted here, two hours ago, was visible in many forums and message boards discussing Madeleine's case. It's curious to analyse some of that activity and look at details about the most prolific posters. This is something that deserves a more researched article. Whenever people wishes to confirm that new evidence has been uncovered, just pay attention to the number of new witnesses or facts showing that Gerry and Kate are innocent and will have their status of “arguidos” lifted soon, published by the British Press. Clarence Mitchell has, indeed, good sources in the Government. He knows a lot more about the case than the legal defence team working for the McCann. But he didn't realized yet that every attempt to anticipate bad news with a disinformation campaign seems almost a confession and, at the same time, it's a proof of the strong and deep connections between authorities in UK and the McCann inner circle of supporters.
Paulo Reis

Posted by Paulo Reis at 22:30:00

docmac said...

Morning Ironside

The original report on 'spinal fluids' that you kindly posted seems to have been written by someone without knowledge of basic anatomy.

Cerebrospinal fluid exists in a central cavity running the length of the spinal cord which is continuous with a thin layer of coverings surrounding the brain itself. This fluid thus surrounds the brain itself too and acts as part of the shock absorber mechanism protecting the brain from sudden acceleration or deceleration forces. The fluid is manufactured and stored within cavities deep inside the brain (called ventricles).

Following from the anatomy it should be obvious that a spinal fracture would almost certainly not result in a loss of fluid as

1. The spinal cord itself is most often not severed and is in any event far from the skin surface. When one hears of 'severed' spinal cords leading to paralysis one must remember that 'severed' implies severance of some of the nerve fibres within the cord because of stretching, not a literal severance of the actual spinal cord itself.

2. The skin surface remains intact. There would be no way out for any fluid anyway.

CSF leaks come about in 2 ways:

1. A catastrophic injury to the cranium, leading to its fracture. Examples would include a significant blow to the head by a blunt instrument eg a hammer. The visible parts of the cranium are extremely strong though.

2. Much more likely in a child especially would be a fracture of the base of the skull (the bottom, ie the part above the palate, nasal cavities etc). This part of the skull is thinner and much more liable to break. The forces required to produce this fracture still require some violence, most commonly the skull stiking a flat surface with some force, eg falling off a landing or down stairs, or more worryingly in this case having your head thrust against a flat surface by someone else. Provided the violence is sufficient the skull will crack at it's weakest point. CSF commonly leaks from the nose or ears following such a fracture.

Contrary to what has been stated on the DE forum (by LisaJ, I think) most victims of a skull base fracture caused by a single blow survive, at least initially. A few of those will succumb to complications, infection being the obvious one as there is now a route into the skull for all sorts of nasty bugs.

I hope this answers your question. Sorry it is so long. If I have not explained something properly leave me a message here and I'll get back to you later. Have to work.

Kind regards

Ironside said...

Thanks Docmac...forever in your debt...dont work too hard.....

LMCG said...

Thanks for that Ironside. I will take a look. See you all later, Lucy

dolores said...

Well Well Well!!
Mc's are furious their arguido status has not been dropped today.
McCann's legal team have warned them they may have to go to the European Court of Human Rights to have their arguido status lifted.
Which solicitor is giving them this hope ? Is it the double glazing one.mmmm

hope4truth said...

Evening All... Am I in the right place??? January 2008 is that the link that is todays posts (sorry to be thick but there are so many posts)...

Have I missed anything I am having a look around to see if I have...

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

Thanks for that clear medical explanation. Unfortunately it does link in to the possible scenario that Madeleine did not die immediately and may have been kept somewhere. If this is the case - not getting her immediately hospitalised seems even more terrible. Granted though it is very hard to imagine where she could have been taken other than their businessman friend on the edge of Luz but why on earth would he agree to do that! Come what may I feel the PJ will ultimately give us all the answers. I still go with the theory that she did sustain a nasty head injury, most likely at the hands of Gerry perhaps by being smashed up against the wall and does of course fit with your medical explanation.

We are lucky to have a medical expert on board!

Thanks again
Viv x

lmcg said...

Hello everyone. I have just come here from the 3 arguidos site. What a minefield of information! I was there an hour just looking through all of the threads and don't think I even touched the surface! Think I will have to wait til my children are back at school before I can go through it properly!

Ironside - several recognisable names on there who have joined so I think your word is getting through!

Viv/Hope I also saw you had joined what did you think of it? Did it confuse you too - although I am easily confused!

At least I have managed to avoid the DE forum today. Am going to check the headlines now to see what, if anything I have missedin the news today.

See you all later.

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

How utterly unrealistic for them to suggest that there status as arguidos will ever be dropped. I recall back in September Kate feeling they had sufficient evidence to charge her - she actually commented that she thought she would be! That was when I started to voice my concerns - well hang on a minute - how can we be sure she did it! I think the PJ were being very clever....

I have already posted (somewhere!) that Mr Smethurst has no criminal law experience whatsoever - his advice and assistance would be bordering on the completely useless. His suggestions of going to the European Court are an example of this. Firstly they would need a team of extremely able solicitors and barristers to pursue a legal remedy against the PJ and British Police in both countries right up to appeal level - legal costs probably several hundred thousand. And, a remedy for what - they have to prove their human rights have been breached - it is most certainly not a breach of human rights to investigate them for homicide! Even so, if he could think of a human right that had been breached and that the case had merit to warrant the costs (and I honestly cant) the average wait to get to the European court is 5-6 YEARS. Mr Smethurst is talking the talk but clearly could not cope with the walk. I get sick of hearing this daft propaganda!

Hope - you can pick any thread you like to comment on - we will find it and answer you!

Luv Viv x

hope4truth said...

LMCG I thought I had joined the 3Arguidos site but logged in and then it said something about an e mail and I never got one... I will go back in and see if I can crack it...

Viv thanks I have no sense of direction at the best of times so if lost at least someone will find me LOL

lmcg said...

It is very confusing isn't it and you thought this was difficult! Your name is there though so you did it somehow :) Good luck!

hope4truth said...

lmcg Thanks for that I thought I had dremt that I signed up...

I have never in my life joined a forum in my life and am spending far to much time in one and now I have joined 3...

It is so sad when a child is missing but this has to be the strangest case I have ever come across...

felicity said...

CKH

Thanks for posting the lengthy thread re the possibility something happened to Maddie on 2 not 3 May. Clearly this cannot be ruled out! Would just say I read a report, I believe, in the Daily Express, that Mrs Fenn heard Maddie cry out on 3 May.

In relation to prosecution for fraud - I do not see them getting away with this. It has made the original offence far more serious and contemptuous - in fact placing them in a category far worse than the average parent who kills a child. I have struggled as to jurisdiction for such a prosecution but think Portugal could also prosecute for this as they were in Portugal when originally commencing this money raising venture. Killing your child and then cashing in - really means the perpetrator just has to be a cold blooded psychopath - have a look at him in the pic outside the Whitehouse! With Kate it seems to be more a mental health issue than personality disorder (although she may have both!)- see the thread from Dec 07 Spanish Psychiatrist's comments.

Kind Regards
Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
So glad I mananged to post and actually get it on your site yesterday, I read an interesting poat befre on the Mirror forum from someone called Miguel, he said that he had been told by his friend who works for the pj that one of the Tapas 7 has given info to the police in return for immunity and is due to go there in the next 2 days, coudl be false obviously but who knows, if there are some of them involved along with Gerry and Kate it may well be true.

lizzy said...

oops sorry my typing is terrible, please excuse it.

lmcg said...

I have succumbed and gone on to the other site :)

Viv/Docmac - recently someone has made a posting mentioning the acid in the waters in a lake/river in Huelva. The suggestion here, I think, is pretty obvious. I have googled it but the answers are far to scientific for me! Is there any credibility in the theory that there would be enough acid there to dispose of a body completely? This one sounds a bit too far fetched for me! x

CKH said...

Someone on the Mirror forum thinks s/he's got the answer regarding Kate's bruises -- here's the link for you to check it out yourselves: http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=34375

Your faithful messenger! ;)

felicity said...

CKH

I have had a look but those are clearly fingermarks on Kate's arm and what of the more severe bruising on her elbow and just above - blow the pic up even 200% and they are very visible (pic on severe bruising post) To suggest that Kate herself carried Maddie's body off in a bag and in so doing caused those bruises to her arm - I think is bordering on the positively absurd!

Kind Regards
Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie you said:

Hi Viv,
So glad I mananged to post and actually get it on your site yesterday, I read an interesting poat befre on the Mirror forum from someone called Miguel, he said that he had been told by his friend who works for the pj that one of the Tapas 7 has given info to the police in return for immunity and is due to go there in the next 2 days, coudl be false obviously but who knows, if there are some of them involved along with Gerry and Kate it may well be true.

----------

Glad you are managing to post now because I always enjoy your posts. This was originally reported in El Mundo a very reputable Spanish Newspaper. It makes complete sense to me. Members of the Tapas group who support K&G in lying to the police or worse still actually taking part in disposing of the body risk a custodial sentence themselves. So it is not at all beyond the realms of possibility that one or more of them have had the good sense to go and seek independant legal advice - due to fear of what may happen to them. Fear of the unknown is terrifying and the only way they could be more clear on their own situation is to go and speak to a solicitor. No doubt, one skilled in criminal law, rather than Mr Smethurst who is apparently acting for the McCanns (heaven help them). Each area of law is like a separate and quite massive subject in itself - solicitors cannot be good at everything and do not bother to try - criminal law is a highly specialised and complex area. I see certain posters have sought to suggest that a solicitor instructed by perhaps Mr Oldfield would not speak to the press on his behalf. Rosie claims that would be acting unprofessionally. This just goes to show how little she knows about solicitors. They act in the best interests of their client and in accordance with their client's instructions which can of course inclue speaking to the press on their behalf. It would also of course include speaking to the PJ on hehalf of the client to try and negotiate a deal - e.g. to agreee to become a prosecution witness with immunity from prosecution for his own wrongdoing which in for example Mr Oldfield's case does not seem to be huge. Clearly the PJ are not going to tell us whether this has happened but again to suggest as Rosie and others do that the case against the McCanns has not moved on at all in the last four months in terms of gathering more evidence against them is positively absurd! The PJ were told by the Portuguese judge that they could not interview the McCanns again until they had gone away and got more evidene to render further questioning worthwhile. Clearly they are now authorised to put further questions and it can be guaranteed they have a host of new evidence now to put to them. It was very disreputable behaviour to arrange for all the Tapss group to meet in the hotel room at the end of November immediately prior to when they believed they were about to be re-questioned and again I wonder if it was the inexperienced and ill advised Mr Smethurst that arranged this. Seeking to change their stories to get them straight now is likely to land the Mcs and their friends in a whole load more trouble by showing them us as liars who are not going to be believed in court and perverting the course of justice into the death and disposal of a little girl. When people lie in such a serious investigation they can be looking at some big time custodial sentences. So again if at least one of them is running scared about that - how very wise of him!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

MCCANNS
04.01.08, 10:56pm

Let's hope the McCann's take the PJ to the European Court of Human Rights.......After all if true and Murat is being released from his status then the McCanns can!

• Posted by: Mandz • Report Comment


When is this dozy little girl going to grow up! Just how stupid is she?

Viv x

lizzy said...

Viv,
Will be interesting to see what develops from the possible meeting of one of the Tapas friends with the Police, I think you are right in saying that now things are getting serious it is possible that they will not want to incrminate themselves with false statements they have previously given and will want to correct any inconsistancies, after all I can't imagine how ever good friends they are that they would be willing to receive a custodial sentence for lying for Gerry and Kate.Interesting thing happened on the DE tonight Christabel drew Rosiepops attention to a post by Tinkerbell or may be the other way round , mentioning a relative called Diane, Doppelganger quickly spotted the truth and suggested we google the well known surname with Diane, guess who came up an Aunt caled Diane Mccann so their relatives are on the DE. Anyway Viv off to bed now so will say Goodnight and speak soon x

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

Yes the thought of being a doctor living in great comfort or in a prison cell to support Kate and Gerry would send cold shivers down most people's spines! Not a very good choice...

Well they do drop things out sometimes dont they - John McCann's wife - done separate post with a nice pic of her! Thanks very much - I really cant be bothered to read all that forum!

Luv Viv x

Anonymous said...

Dear Viv,

As you see I am trying to catch up with reading!

Regarding Dr Gonçalo Amaral: there is not a single wee chance that he has been fooled. He knows and has known since the very first day what has happened to the Little One we are seeking justice for.
Dr Gonçalo Amaral has been the scape goat in this case, and I am not afraid to say that Portuguese authorities have had a most shameful attitude as they let politics and politicians manipulate this case and did not get out to protect this highly professional gentleman.
I want justice for little Madeleine and I want someone in my country to have the balls to tell us what has happened and why they let the PJ through Dr Gonçalo Amaral be smeared to the most unacceptable point.
Was it all about that european sort of treaty that has been signed???

Hugsssssssss

Athena

felicity said...

Hiya Athena

I have no doubt in the professional integrity of Dr Amaral and after all no decent detective would have failed to suspect these two. We heard that even the two GNR officers first on the scene were utterly bemused their demeanour and irrational claims of a supposed break in - when there was simply no evidence to support this. I keep thinking of that picture of the Portuguese scenes of crime lady dusting down the shutters on the outside and fingerprints clearly coming into view! Jez Wilkins saw Gerry messing with those shutters. I bet they are his fingerprints!

I think it is very disheartening and frustrating not just to UK and Portuguese citizens but to people the world over who want to see justice that what we actually see is so many political strings being pulled for these two. So they are allowed to run home and two decent officers are removed from the investigation. Amaral and Sousa. I do not know why the Portuguese bowed to political pressure from the UK but it does look like they did. They should have treated the McCanns just the same way they would have treated Portuguese doctors who had neglected one of their children and did not have any satisfactory explanation as to why she had just disappeared and remanded them in custody until they got their memories back!

I think in the end Dr Amaral will get the respect he deserves when all the evidence he gathered against these two miscreants comes to light - which it will!

Luv Viv x