27 Jan 2008


2345 - I hope you dont mind me copying your post here from the Daily Express - it is excellant and very informative - what a pity there is not written record of Jane Hill's report. If you have the full detail of it I would be extremely grateful if you could post it THANKS Viv x
26.01.08, 11:44pm
You state - "PJ not doing their job properly and for completely messing this investigation up".Facts: The McCanns phoned PJ and asked for their assistance in finding their daughter. Mayor of Luz confirmed 3 Police forces were deployed for 24 hour two week search, together with locals tourists etc., on foot, bicycles, horsebacks, vehicles and boats - search included the harbour. The father was so unconcerned he didn't both to help the Police - he instead played tennis.PJ's suspicions led them to deploy British Police specialists with cadaver dogs; due to the expense they do not fly abroad without just cause. To cut a long factual account short, the forensic evidence pinpointed by cadavers, removed by British (not PJ) Police, handed to the best forensic laboratories in UK were handed directly to PJ on completion of analysis.Despite your complaints of Jane Hill's report, the forensic evidence - briefly transposed as commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx and cerebal fluid, indicative of broken neck or fracture skull, was factual information handed to Jane Hill for live TV broadcast the day the McCanns were named as suspects. PJ presented the forensic evidence to them.PJ, with the invaluable assistance of British specialists were, therefore, able to confirm to the parents that Madeleine was not abducted - their daughter died in the apartment on or around 3 May.Wasting Police time and/or perverting the course of justice are both chargeable offences in Portugal and British Law. I make no apology for repeating relevant facts to substatiate points because all my comments are based on substantiated information released by the Police.Where evidence of death is confirmed, Police forces worldwide do not waste time or money looking for that person in a "live" state. Your criticism of PJ is, therefore, uunwarranted and unjustifiable. All those who consider forensic evidence irrelevant have no genuine interest or concern for Madeleine's fate in the apartment.
• Posted by: 2345


Ironside said...

He has just learned through one of his own reputable sources that the Maddie DNA sighting in Tongeren last year was a hoax staged by the PJ in co-operation with their Belgian and Dutch counterparts.

By the time news first broke of this "100% sighting with proof", the McCanns were already subject to one of the most intense surveillance operations ever carried out in Portugal. This operation at its peak involved over 50 agents, as well as specialised help and equipment brought in from the UK.

He told me that the results of this operation had changed the direction of the entire investigation for good, and would be used as an initial piece of the prosecutor's jigsaw. "At this point in time, the abduction theory was binned once and for all".

Taken from the3A's if this is true
what a break through for pj

The most significant sighting....and it does not get a mention in gerry's blog.....

felicity said...

Hiya Ironside

It would certainly be interesting, if correct, but it seems like an awful lot of trouble and expense to go to that would not produce direct evidence of wrong doing, would it? I actually prefer to believe that Gerry McCann is behind all these fake sightings. Now we are being hit with a barrage of "fake suspects" - he never gives up does he!

Interesting if true though!
Viv x

Irina said...

Was this 6 or 7th of June, when they visited Germany (unpleasant for them visit) and were going what Holland? next, but there was sighting announced and PJ asked them to postpone the visit due to important information?
Break through could be recording of their conversations at the time. I remember they certainly were not touched a bit by the hope their daughter is found.

I think they have been and under the surveillance, as well as their friends, Metodo and CM.

felicity said...

Hiya Irina ! Great to hear from you - it is wonderful how all these lovely people keep dropping in - I love it!

Not sure on the dates but I do remember reading on Gerry's blog that they got held up and had some TV shows booked in Holland and arrived three hours late and missed one but they also wanted to spend time with their special friends and then did manage to fit another scheduled appearance in. That is as much as I remember. I have always wondered if their friends in Holland are in some way involved..Gerry was really stressing on his blog how important it was that they saw them.

Ironside usually smells out things and yes I am sure you are both right there has been a lot of bugging and surveillance HOPEFULLY!
There was certainly a leak in the early stages that PJ had heard them speak of Maddie's death in bugged emails and phone calls and even a suggestion a Leics police officer had warned them about bugging - if he did SHAME ON HIM!
Love Viv x

Ironside said...

Martin Smith, from Drogheda in Co Louth, was on holiday in Praia Da Luz with his family when they bumped into the man just before 10pm on May 3 last year.
The Smith family's suspicions were aroused because the man made no response when they asked if the barefoot child was asleep.
"He just put his head down and averted his eyes, which is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year," said Mr Smith.
Initially the Smith family thought nothing more of the encounter - and even the next day when the story broke they still didn't make the connection.
"We were home two weeks when my son rang me up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken," said Mr Smith.
"We all remembered the same recollection, and I felt we should report it to the police.

"We've all been beating ourselves up that we should have made the link sooner, if only we'd remembered the next day.
"But the Portuguese police said you see these things on holiday all the time."
The Smiths did contact the Portuguese police once they had returned to Ireland, but say they have had no contact with the officers investigating the case since May last year.
"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone," said Mr Smith.
"They asked me to make a statement to the Gardai, which I did, and two days later Leicestershire police got on to us.
"My eldest son, Peter, my youngest daughter, Aoife, and I then flew to Luz to make a statement. They didn't seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across - and that was the last time we had any contact with the investigation.
Madeleine McCann is still missing

"I don't know if this information will help the McCanns, but anything we can do to help try to solve it, we will.
"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless. We had two grandchildren with us at the time and it had a terrible effect on them - they all wanted to sleep in the same room as us."
But Mr Smith is certain that the man he and his family saw that night was not Robert Murat, who is still officially an "arguido" in the Madeleine McCann investigation.
"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously.
"He was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s and I didn't think he was Portuguese."
Mr Smith's sighting is similar to the one reported by Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCann family.
A spokesman for the McCanns said detectives from the Spanish agency hired to investigate the case are now hoping to speak to the Smiths.
Retired Mr Smith, 58, does not wish to appear on camera in order to protect his family from

This is an old report...not sure if you have seen it

LittleGreyCell said...


Hi Viv,

Just reading all the above (a day late!) - I read ages ago that it was Clarence who had tipped off Kate and Gerry about the listening in to their calls and emails, and not the Leicestershire Police. If this was so, would it be the reason he left the long-term employ of the government and suddenly needed a new job ?


felicity said...

Hiya LGC

That is really interesting - thank you so much. I have always wondered why he so suddenly got pushed from another job. It is clear there was senior police presence in PDL from the outset due to the obvious involvement of the Mcs - Clarence is not the most tactful of people - word would have quickly got back to the the government that he could bring them into disrepute by being on the wrong side of reporting a homicide - he has now permanently damaged his own reputation by not standing for law, order and the integrity of the police - I can imagine what Gordon Brown personally thinks of him and how he never even got the chance to clear his desk!


viv x

2345 said...


First visit to this thread and I left a lengthy post about Jane Hill's report on another at 2.20 p.m. I've read so much here today, I cannot remember which thread. It was the one where you, Ironsides and Docmac commented on the hounding I received in DE Forum, including a post from Rosiepops.

If you cannot find it, I'm happy to repeat everything I said. Meantime, the following is the transcript of Jane Hill's report which I watched on BBC news at 6 o'clock on 7 September -

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also "Sousa himself told of this very fine mist of spray that was found in the apartment." This information was released only once - that night.

The McCanns would have been presented with and questioned on this FSS information - Leicester Police & PJ both held results. It's standard practice for Police to inform BBC, who despatched Jane Hill to Luz for breaking news and report. She spoke outside the Police station whilst Kate was being interviewed, then named arguido along with Gerry.

Alsabella was unaware of the news report or content; FSS information must have been released by Leicester Police (not PJ) as it concerned a British child.

Rosiepops or one of her cronies insisted the report had been banned. One of my supporters request for the link was ignored.
2345 (JAB) - 4.30 p.m.

PS Am including JAB in future - two people have signed on 3 A's site as 1234 & 12345 - concurrently on 05 Jan. I didn't join until 30 Jan.

2345 said...


Re: Post to you at 4.30 p.m. - Jane Hill's report.

My post around 2.20 p.m. is on the thread - Jane Hill's First report.

2345 (JAB) 4.50 p.m.