8 Jan 2008


i NOTE THE DAILY EXPRESS HAVE TWICE REMOVED TYLERMUMS COMMENT BELOW FOR "LEGAL REASONS". As she said earlier we can take it this is too close to the truth for comfort! But I dont think it was an accident ...I think it was Gerry and Kate got those nasty bruises on her arm trying to stop him.


08.01.08, 5:27pm

At the risk of it being deleted again I wil repeat what I said earlier.

If Madeleines blood was found behind the settee it is probable that it got there through
Madeleine falling off the back of the settee rather then as been suggested her body being
hidden there.
Who would they be hiding the body from?
If they wanted to hide Madeleine's body it would of been easier to just put her in bed as if

If Madeleine had fallen off the back of the settee she could have broken her neck,an easy
thing for a child to do with an awkward fall.
An open cut would have accounted for the blood found.

Someone posted afterwards asked about the blood said to be found on the wall and curtain.

That could have come from the child's body and open wound brushing against them whilst
being moved or from someone's hands or clothes that had been in contact with the child.
The amounts of blood found were only small amounts and if someone died instantly from a
broken neck there would not be a lot of blood.
If a child toppled backwards over the back of a settee they would probably hit the floor head

Why anyone would find the above slanderous or libelous I don't know

• Posted by: tylersmum

08.01.08, 5:27pm


• Posted by: tylersmum


felicity said...



08.01.08, 6:50pm

My theory is that McCanns are copywriting and trade marking Madeline story, name of the

film, and name of Madeleine. Probably version that was given in deleted posts was


People will have to pay McCanns soon to name their daughters Madeleine.

PJ, FSS and judge will have to pay McCann Corporation every time they open their mouth in


What a way to earn money! Easy - kill someone and write a book. OJ did it. McCann will do it.

• Posted by: irina


08.01.08, 6:50pm

• Posted by: irina


08.01.08, 8:04pm

Thank you for giving insite into Tylersmum delited post.

Now I found my post delited for legal reasons: I have sudgested there that McCanns

copywriting and trade marking Madeleine. And that it is a legal reason.

Did they get restraining order on this forum?

• Posted by: irina

felicity said...

Irina is obviously prepared to push her luck: I agree though - what an easy way to make money ~Gerry - kill your daughter and then cash in big time! Not as easy as you think! Viv :-)

08.01.08, 8:18pm

Reprint of deleted:

My theory is that McCanns are copywriting and trade marking Madeline story, name of the film, and name of Madeleine. Probably version that was given in deleted posts was copyrighted?

People will have to pay McCanns soon to name their daughters Madeleine.
PJ, FSS and judge will have to pay McCann Corporation every time they open their mouth in court.

What a way to earn money! Easy - kill someone and write a book. OJ did it. McCann will do it.

• Posted by: irina • Report Comment

Dylan05 said...

Evening good people,
I see the royals are out in force this evening on HYS! Same ole...

Yay! I have finished my last exam until easter now - find me a question on climate change and prove that I don't know the answer (smirk, smirk!)

One thing that caught my attention today is the last ditch remark - "Ohhm, I'm telling on you - my mummy said that low copy dna doesn't hold water in court - so looloo lalabi and there!!!"
Really, if these are the last tactics to save a sinking ship then I certainly won't be throwing out any life saving devices and banking on any money back from the bookie's. How old are these people that claim to be friends of McSpam?/nasties?
I did actually BUY the DE today before my exam for some distraction before having to remember who said what and when, will happen to us when CO2 doubles in atmospheric concentration. The only concentration I gleened was the knowledge that I could definately, without computer models, be worse off than I was this morning if my name was Kate....!!


I said I would share knowledge, alas I have no new knowledge, but something that struck me eons ago was that: if the PJ were really that incompetant and had to set up the first person they could, surely, surely, RM would have been by many miles, the easiest to frame? The fact that they have not revealed any new information on him, that they have received many tens of sightings with a bit of a crap alibi from "mummy", would have made him by far the best scapegoat? But, no! We are supposed to believe that our poor European neighbours, are so stupid that they would pick the hardest, most incredulous, indigestible (to most honest Englishmen) route, just because they want a bit of a laugh???!!!

Kate and Gerry - what wholly innocent explanation are you going to offer for 100% match for M's blood at various places, AFTER she disappeared? Maybe they bought a Christmas Turkey in advance and, due to HN51 flu, the virus "metamorphosed" by some bizarre coincidence, into M's by cutting and pasting from media circus!

Yukk, makes me sick!

Dylan - available 'til next coursework due! xxx

Dylan05 said...

I don't think, if M did die that night, that it was entirely an accidental fall. I DO think she did fall but I don't think that that was the first action that was to blame.
If M died as a result of an accident before the T9 meal, then why would the parents and friends try to cover it with an abduction story? TWIST (sorry twist), if an accident had happened that explains the blood, why would the parents clean it up and cover it up? They could just claim - we were in the other room when she fell ... and no questions would have been asked as to their negligence on previous nights when they went out to dinner.

The fact that Kate said "she may have had a nosebleed" is just plain stupid! A parent would have had no doubts about that. They would have said, right from the start something like "ahhh, yes, she did have a ..." The blood was cleaned up which would have been a fairly, blatantly obvious thing to report to the police from the word "GO". You DON'T forget these things and use them as an excuse when confronted with this evidence!
I think, M did have an accident but it was after K&G had maybe sedated the children as the PJ suggest. Why else would the twins remain asleep? Bugger it if my babies didn't wake up at a drop of a hat?!
I think she was groggy, stumbled around looking for mum and dad and fell. I think she may have been in that state when K&G discovered her but were unable to revive her (docmac what do you think?) When they couldn't, they concocted the abduction story to save, primarily their jobs and twins.
If it were me, first; try to save the child, second; contact NHS/police to help but maybe doctors are cooler thinkers and wouldn't panick as I would. My TV fell on my son once, I got scared and phoned an ambulance - you can imagine the laughter that ensued!

I can't imagine the threat of losing my children. I feel quite proud of myself today that I managed an exam and then helped with 14yr old English coursework on Bladerunner, 16yr old Maths and cooked dinner from scratch but I guess it takes all sorts to run the world and at least I know, that even though I suspect I'm a bit crap really, I did my best today - hooray!!

To Rosiepops and Laz - how do you KNOW that these awful parents did their best on that fatefull day? I have a 2 up 2 down house,which is rented and all I have to offer is security and education, and occasionally food when I can be bothered! (I'm never going back to teaching again!) but I promise, I'll not leave you all alone.
An Englishman/woman's promise to the children we love oxoxox

felicity said...

Hiya Dylan

Queen B seemed a little late arriving today!

Climate change that sounds a bit complex - what is your degree course?

LCN DNA has been doing very nicely in court since 1999! As there is a one in a billion chance of them being wrong when the test has been verified three times it is not considered wise to use it as stand alone evidence it needs to be backed up and I have no doubt in the McCann case there is plenty of back up. From my understanding the whole point of this evidence is to assist the investigators in focussing their enquiries on the right suspects and that is what it has done! They did not find any in Murat's house or car!

Fancy actually buying the DE!

I am not looking forward to CO2 doubling in atmospheric concentration - will I be dead then? I have planted as many trees and plants in my garden as I can possibly squeeze in and do keep turning everything off!! and am sitting under the glare of an energy saving bulb,,,

Like you say how much simpler if they wanted to frame someone to just pick on poor old Murat. It is completely illogical to pick on the McConns and their multi millionaire backer. Maybe even easier they could have just adamantly said well you say you left the door open - we say she wandered off and drowned in the sea - end of! These guys are educated to doctorate level for God's sake and they are fearlessly seeking the truth regardless of the flak that is flying in their direction from the highly unpleasant Team McScamm.

Ludicrous keeps telling us there will be wholly innocent explanations for anything they have or even may find - what a soothsayer! ummm I could think of other words...

Well the word coursework fills me with horror having done a couple of degrees and always without fail left that work until the very last possible minute. I wrote a dissertation in two and half weeks and was a whirlwind of doing interviews and typing them up! Next time I come up with that dumb suggestion about doing another one maybe I should just remember what doing a degree is really like! Bloody hard work and bad for the eyesight!

I hope you get good marks!!

Great to hear from you again.

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya again ~Dylan when I posted a response to your first one I noticed you had written again.

The scenario you come up with is very similar to what I used to think had happened and it is still a very possible scenario in my view. I believe it was also Mrs Fenn or one of the their neighbours that reported Madeleine was difficult at bedtimes and that she had ran off down the pathways and disappeared for half an hour. This was reported in the early stages and really rang alarm bells with me because I just could not imagine any of my kids aged three doing that or indeed trying to force them off to bed whilst on holiday. It raises the spectre of why would Madeleine be so upset and run off like that. There was also early reports of a syringe being found. It seems clear the twins were drugged from the reports of the police officers and Kate and Gerry have clearly tried to disprove this by having tests done on them several months later and no doubt after a number of hair cuts! I certainly reasoned that she may have been drugged and fell and injured herself when trying to again do a runner. There was a report of her possibly sustaining a nasty head injury on the steps outside. Of late I have taken the view it is more likely that she was violently assaulted by Gerry - I take into account his character and the severe bruising to Kates arm in particular - see sep thread on this.

Like you say Kate would know for sure whether or not she had a nose bleed and the blood is reported to be on the window ledge - does not seem very likely does it? It is about as lame as her apparently claiming she handled six dead bodies prior to coming on holiday in her role as a two day a week locum GP! I dont think even Dr Shipman had that many! Plus the cadaver smell was on the jeans she was wearing that very night - did she really go to work in jeans!

You sound like a great dad and a real good coper with your kids!

Best wishes
viv x

docmac said...

Hi Dylan05

Sorry for the late reply, but I was feeling ill last night and turned in early. Your feelings on what happened are perfectly feasible. The twins must have been sedated and there are good reasons to believe that Madeleine was too. With the resultant grogginess and balance problems a fall is not to be counted out.

There are, however, suggestions that cerebrospinal fluid was found. If this is the case I would have to put my money on murder, as diststeful as this is to me. Speculation of course but the one thing that is certain from the reported findings is that she indeed died in 5A.

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

Have you read on Gazeta Digital that Mrs Fenn claims Kate was shouting out of control on the night of 2 May in addition to Madeleine crying? I can see where the theories comes from that Madeleine died that night.

In today DE story McCanns fear charges

the DE are, as ever claiming police believe Kate killed Maddie - I think this is spinning no other paper seems to be reporting this. Whose side is Claris on - I thought he liked Kate and was having a personality clash with Gerry but am beginning to wonder.

Funny how Claris reports film deal - apparently to bury the bad news the may be charged and Gerry seeks to disagree somewhat. If Claris thought the suggestion the Mcs may want to make a film would prove helpful he wants to read the comments in the Daily Mail - utterly scathing. I really do wonder what he is about!


docmac said...


Remember that kid's game, pin the tail on the donkey? The tail is now a tail and Kate's the donkey.

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

Well we always thought that when the chips were really down Gerry would drop her right in it - in a way she only has herself to blame for that and should have seen it coming!

Good to hear from you!
Quiet this morning!

Luv Viv xx

docmac said...

Yes it's quiet and I'm going to have a sleep too. Still not feeling great. By the way I meant to say the tail is now a tale lololol.

felicity said...

Hiya Doc and what an epic tale it is is!

Hope you feel better after a sleep.

Luv Viv x

Dylan05 said...

Oops, forgot to leave my ID for last post!

Viv, thanks for good wishes. I very nearly sat a law paper instead! LMAO! probably would have got better marks tho!

Dylan x

felicity said...

Yea Dylan

law is a doddle :-)

Viv x

2345 said...

Discussion between myself and other DE Forum members weeks and weeks ago led to a one week suspension. The fact that I was indicates we were too close to the truth for certain peoples' comfort.

I read tylersmum's theory a while back on fall from couch, which I respect but feel it leaves too many 'loopholes'. IF Madeleine had caused her own death due to fall off the sofa or anywhere else, then the authorities concerned would have accepted it as such. Cause of death would have been clearly shown as broken neck/fractured skull; blood would not be checked for substance abuse in a 3 year old. Therefore, no need existed for covering up the death if Madeleine had caused her own fatality.

Jane Hill, BBC News 24 reporter was sent to Luz by BBC to cover breaking news on 7 September - day parents were interviewed and named.
It's standard practice for the Police to liaise with give relevant information for media release. Leicester Police had FSS results - as did PJ who question the McCanns on the following, amongst other things:

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commesnurate with a certain type of broken larynx .. some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull." Also "Sousa himself told of this very find mist of spray that was found in the apartment."

There followed reports in DX articles of spinal fluid found in the apartment, along with blood on bedroom wall and curtain (scrubbed with cleaning fluid). The blood would need to be 'propelled' through the air to hit the places reported.

Police information released "commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ..."
raises serious questions. The throat is protected by protruding jaw bone, more so given Madeleine's height on 3 May. Kate was seen injured in a live TV interview around 4 May - cut above her eye and bruised left arm. Injured mother, missing child ...
alarming combination - are they connected?

" ... a certain blood spray indicating ... broken larynx" could only be caused by a severe upper or sideways blow. The angle of impact was not protected by the jaw. IF Kate was holding Madeleine in her arms during a heated domestic row, she may have suffered the injuries shown as a result). IF Madeleine had been accidentally struck in the process, he head was at the right height to leave her throat area unprotected. The impact which caused the blood spray found would have been severe enough to break Madeleine's neck/fracture her skull.

The fact that forensic material was found behind the sofa does not necessarily mean the site of death. Her body could have been laid there afterwards.

Gerry has shown himself quick to temper coupled with a lack of self control. He ripped off his microphone and stormed out of one live interview when asked "Do you sedate your children". Even if he did, one would expect a man of his profession to have politely replied "no".

The above explanation leads to an explanation for the comotozed state reportedly found by PJ on 3 May. Did the twins witness a heated, violent row and the consequences? IF they did, then they would have been highly traumatized. Were they sedated to allay their trauma? I think it highly likely, given the situation the contents of Jane Hill's report shows the parents had to face and deal with. The events would have left them as traumatized as the twins.

Reports of Madeleine crying for 2 hours one night suggests she was not routinely sedated.

I'm a twin and have vivid childhood memories of sitting in the pram opposite my sister. I've often wondered whether the twins were eye witnesses to Kate's injuries and the cause of the forensics. IF so, it will likely be locked deep in their memories for the rest of their lives.

My own children, now in their 'thirties' have clear memories of experiences as 2 year olds.

2345 said...

Fall Theory ... apologies my post was sent at 4.20 p.m. 2345.