31 Jan 2008

What do I think of Clarence lecture - not a lot!

I see the DE gave it another full page spread. He is speaking as a publicity man. So when he says he had a briefing with Leicestershire Police and CEOP - he means he got them to agree to links to Find Maddie on their webpages which they have. Funnily enough Leics police do not suggest you should ring Metodo if you have any info about missing Maddie they suggest you ring your local police.

Would Claris have had briefings with either about the guilt or innocence of the McCanns - well of course not. If any Leicestershire police officer had private briefings with him in connection with the criminal investigation into the McCanns - he would be disciplined for being in serious breach of duty. CEOP are to protect children from exploitation - paedophilia etc - they would not know anything at all about the case IMO.

What do I think of this then - RUBBISH - the only thing he would get them to agree a briefing for is to put publicity on web pages - dont get above yourself Clarence - oh and er how come you only just mentioned Leics Police say they are innocent - YOU ARE NOT JUST LIAR BUT A JOKE!

Another Daily Express headline we will very quickly forget - like all the rest we have seen lately. Desperation...


Dylan said...

Hi Viv,

How did everything go on tues? Hope all is well.

I've only had time to scan read recently & i'll try to read through the last 4 headings as soon as.

I bought the DE yesterday and didn't see this full page report. I got to about page 30 and gave up as they normally out a story within he first 22 pages.

There has been very little news in the media for around two weeks now apart from recycled news and a very confusing report in the DE on Tues i think it was. It said that the PJ are back to thinking it was an abduction but it was worded so ambiguously that it could have meant that they are still keeping all lines of enquiry open. Odd that they dismissed any sightings reported as they know she is dead and that they haven't really collaborated with the Spanish over the little Spanish girl that went missing recently.

It's all getting very confusing and without fresh news i've no idea what's going on.

What's happened to the interviews with the T9? Someone posted that there have been Portuguese visiting England to establish permission to do so but nothing has been heard about that yet.

If Kate and Gerry are saying they thoughtr from the start that Maddie had wondered off, and they had told the police/familly that she had been abducted, I would have expected a reaction from the PJ but, again, nothing!

It's all very odd. And i agree with you that I don't believe Kate could deliberately harm Maddie. Gerry is very definately the one who is the alpha parent and he's dealing all of the cards.

May i ask for a link to alsabella's blog? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Bye for now and have a good day.

Dyl x

SueB said...

You can get full details of Clarrie's 'McCanns and the Media' debate, a pod-cast, and other information at:


or you can contribute to the debate at the Polis Director's blog at:


felicity said...

Hiya dilly how are you - Luke is going to see a urologist on friday for follow up of scan but is not getting pain now - i think it was an infected lump and the antibiotics cleared the infection but he still has the lump. Def not big bad C. huge relief!

You dont have to read all the posts you know!

The PJ are certainly not back to thinking it was an abduction! As far as I know the papers are with Eurojust at the Hague and that can cause some delay. I think Daily Mail trying to suggest it is our HOme Sec when she has not even received the papers yet is just a bit more right wing bashing of the labour government which they are very good at. People seem to be getting very edgy but I think we should just calmly wait and the PJ will be back soon enough. It is a complex investigation that is going to take time. I would imagine Eurojust are helping out by collating evidence against the McCanns from many different Member States - I could imagine there would be some evidence coming from Spain about the McCanns conduct for example/ Metodo 3 - the way I see it this is a criminal offence of seeking to obstruct/pervert the course of justice by manufacturing evidence of abductors etc. and a pretty serious one too. Gerry McCann just does not seem to know when to stop - he thinks he can manipulate his way out of this somehow but he is pathetic - does he not think that all those clever police officers, psychologists etc cannot figure him out - even we can!

I have put a couple of posts on Alsabella's blog here is the link:

Lovely to hear from you again darling - hope you can fit us both in :-)

Luv viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Sue

Thanks for the links.

I just read your post somewhere that you dont think Gerry is the aggressive one and maybe she got her injuries some other way.

I am interested in people's thoughts as to how they feel Kate may have killed Maddie - it would be interesting if you could expand on that. Obviously I have said I dont think that is likely (although possible) but it is good to see an opposing point of view.

Good to hear from you again>

Luv Viv x

dogrose said...

"The Internet provided an outlet for huge waves of sympathy for the McCanns but it was also the dark place that some very sad souls chose to huddle together, sharing their sick fantasies and reaffirming each other’s sad obsessions. A few of those odd people turned up at our debate demanding action against the McCanns and an end to ’spin’. But as Kelvin pointed out they represent a big part of the public who don’t seem to trust anyone anymore. I am not sure if that’s the media’s fault, but it sure ain’t doing a lot to correct it."


well fellow sad souls, will things ever change. 10:25

docmac said...

Hi Viv and everyone.

I can't stay right noe, but feel I should post this from Ironside on the DE. I'm sure he won't sue me, unlike some others we know!

31.01.08, 11:00am

I was there tonight also.

CM was extremely arrogant - about four metres from me and looked me in the eye when I cheered for, I believe, the Maddies Law girl who was off to my left ( that would be the nicely dressed blonde who had many good points - went head to head with Clarrie several times.

The guy on stage right next to Clarrie - the Guardian writer - bit into Clarrie repeatedly about playing cop and releasing the sketch of a "suspect" without showing it to the police. Clarrie quite feebly lied that Team McCann had shown the picture to the Portugese police just prior to that press conference and even claimed - at one point ( but seemed to back down when challenged ) that the Portugese authorities had approved of the whole press conference.

During very vocal questioning about the MF shutting down, Clarence quite meekly answered "we closed that down" ( I only heard this because I was so close ).

• Posted by: IRONSIDE

LittleGreyCell said...


Hello All,

Just had a bit of an inflamed discussion with someone at the DE after they sent me a 'warning email' telling me that I've been naughty.

Apparently, I was 'targetting' another user, who then complained. Looking back at my recent posts, they have removed the one I wrote addressed to the 'Antis', which merely alerted them to the fact that Rosiepops wasn't feeling herself, if they caught my drift.

This was yesterday, when OldMarkHippyDope55 was posing as her (see Pyjama Thread - I think - for examples of Rosiepops' 'subtle' personality transplant).

I got a little (controlledly) heated when I told the nice lady at the end of the phone that when I have complained in the past of anti-semitic postings, and of being suspended when I was being cloned, the DE were mildly bored (in a caring way).

She didn't care much to hear my protestations and obviously was under pressure to finish the conversation because it was time to take Richard Desmond's dictation (I think that's what she said). A good time was not had by all.

Anyway, here's what I posted in retaliation as a (looming, I expect) parting gift:-

31.01.08, 2:51pm

Starting today, after last night's sparkling launch at the LSE, HOW TO SPEAK CLARRIE! Why not start your New Year learning a new language? Read on for how to impress your friends and alienate Spin Doctors at the same time.

(DISCLAIMER: The following course should only be followed if in possession of a brain. Send away now for yours to McCann Cognative Sciences, Rothely, Leicestershire. Please enclosed a self-addressed envelope stating which DNA coding you require. Soiled nappies cannot be returned).

CLARRIESPEAK: The Press have been guilty of applying appalling standards of journalism with regards to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

TRANSLATION: The papers have been publishing what I tell them to print.

CLARRIESPEAK: I feel totally ashamed at the sloppiness and laziness of the press, and the way in which they resolutely refuse to check the facts.

TRANSLATION: The papers have been publishing what I tell them to print.

CLARRIESPEAK: I have never once seen or heard anything from either of them to give me any cause for suspicion in any shape or form.

TRANSLATION: Kate and Gerry are paying me £75,000 a year.

CLARRIESPEAK: There is definitely a commercial imperative in reporting this case

TRANSLATION: Kate and Gerry are paying me £75,000 a year.

CLARRIESPEAK: Every single one of the negative stories you hear or read about the Mccanns is untrue.

TRANSLATION: Kate and Gerry are paying me £75,000 a year.

DON'T MISS TOMORROW'S EDITION:- How to achieve gainful employment as Crippen's mouthpiece...

• Posted by: LittleGreyCell

I wonder if I'll still be on that site later on today??

Happy Thursday (TRANSLATION: Get a brain, DE)


Cláudia said...

Hello, dear Viv.
I didn't know that CM was a part-time comedian!

Irina said...

Here is my wision on what happen to rogatory letters:

Letters were received by Jacky Smith and made available to the McCann camp.
McCann's lawyers said: We need more time to prepare the answers that will suit us. Jacky sends letters back because she does not like "UPS", but prefer "Fed Express".
While Portugal sends it through "Fed Express", McCanns in haste prepare the answers that their friend should give.

Anonymous said...

Hi Little Grey Cell,
Personally, I now take it as a compliment if DE moderators are forced to face their failings, regardless of whether they 'suspend', 'ban', 'remove', 'delete'.

Master****** Desmond, their proprietor, and publishing porn king from his other magazine interests before buying the DE, hopes to gain some credibility in UK publishing whilst retaining his lowly morals in printing only that which is not fit to be seen in decent company.
The gloves are off: he has this moment to reveal whether he is a fit person to own a mainstream newspaper or whether the DE should be placed on the top shelf, and relegated to the level of soft porn.
It will take a while for this process to unwind, of course. Just look at 'The Sport', also owned by a soft porn king...or rather don't look at it, except to see it as a malaise at the heart of British newspapers.
Tsk. The 21st century publishing. Great, ain't it?
For consolation: the DE - never a first or second choice among good journalists - the DEs handling of Madeleine's story is more proof that the newspaper has a death wish. The clock is ticking. DE moderators must make a choice: are they journalists protecting their readers' right to free speech, and honest inquiry or are they the underpaid playthings of a rich man, and cynical PR mechanics.
They have had their warnings, repeatedly. Only their ego and arrogance stands in the way of doing the right thing; the proper journalistic thing on behalf of the public.
We will see if they are wo/men or mice, won't we...

Anonymous said...

Doh! It's 10.03 G.M.T.

Anonymous said...

Err...I mean to say I take it as a compliment to common sense that many people see the corruption at the centre of the Madeleine story, and persevere in the pursuit of what's right over the cosy, comfy choice of blind acceptance of the McCanns soft sell in public; big stick in private.

Values. That's what this sorry story is about, sadly. Maddie goes missing, and power brokers aim to find their fortune because of it. Horrible.

Anonymous said...

Doh! It's 19.10 G.M.T.

Dylan said...

Thank you viv!

I am soooo glad that luke is ok and it's not the big C. I wanted to say that if there is pain it is good. I have a phobia about the "C" from more than 20 years ago when i was a teenager and went with my parents to see my closest aunt. She was a smoker and had breast cancer in her 30s.It came back and she had an exploratory operation as it had spread to her bowels. The doctor asked her at her bedside if she smoked. She said yes and he practically sneered at her. We were all called into the office where they told us she would not survive because it had spread and it was too late. My dad and mum cried. The effect it had on me is very complex but, in short, it's the reason why i still smoke because i am in what's called denial. Anyway, i went to see my doctor a few weeks ago about breast pain. She told me that if it hurts, it's good. I wanted to put your mind at rest but felt i was not qualified to do so! Lumps of malignant nature do not hurt. I wish i could comfort myself with the same. What happened to my aunt destroyed me. I used to be very sporty, an excellent sprinter but these days all i do is eat healthily, walk up as many mountains as i can (difficult in Norfolk), cycle and hope, hope, hope.

Once a month, i get something called PDD. It means i get very depressed a week before i'm due. Basically, i binge drink for a day to alleviate it. I've been prescribed prozac but won't take it as it frightens me. I'm trying to controll it with diet and oil of evening primrose. I so wish i was a man!! So please excuse me when i ramble and become upset! I've been bullied all of my life and i'm also having treatment for that. It's in its early days so i may relapse into saturday syndrome from time to time. - I dread to think what i said saturday! I'm so sorry & i do realise that i get unnaturally upset. I feel so embarrassed in the morning and feel like nobody wants to know me, quite understandably.

I've made up my mind not to go to the places where ruth may be as she never fails to upset me!

Anyway, thanks for the info. Thought i was going insane! I will read on now.

So wish i was with you when you heard that all is well with luke. There's nothing like the relief to a parent who has worried so much about their children. If i knew what your face was like, i could picture a smile on it! Brilliant!

dyl x

docmac said...

Hi Viv

Read astromum's comments on the following blog article by the POLIS director. Pay close attention to the second comment by her where she confirms what Ironside said. CM got the Mirror forum shut down.


lizzy said...

I read on a link in the Mirror forum about 2 weeks ago an article that said Clarrie was trying to get all forums and blogs closed down. Then there was something else he was going to release, some info when the time was right. I can't remember but wish I had copied it and kept it as it seems to be coming true bit by bit.I just don't understand how anybody could take him seriously, im a civil servant and that presentation at the press conference was appalling, so unprofessional and unconvincing. I believe he knows the Mccanns are guilty but is undeterred from supporting them as he sees it as a means to making money and promoting himself.

SueB said...

Hi Viv, I've just read on the McCann Files that the PJ admit the key dossier is still in Lisbon, hence delay over Rogatory letters.


Dylan said...

How on earth does a "spokesperson" manage to shut down what is a very british and democratic opinion forum? Does not "spokesperson" and blocking "freedom of speech" scream of oxymoron? Just how much further are the average, British/World public expected to take this crap? I don't have any special alliances, politically. I am neutral,an independent newspaper reader, prior to the McCanns headlining news, i never bought the DE. Every day that i read the DE to get to the part that i want, I have to take all that they say about: Brown: EU immigrants taking away all of our taxes, sponging off of our social security, Labour: Violence amidst our teenagers is rife and they condone it, watch out: Polish immigrants are stealing our country from under our noses".

What absolute baloney. Is it that they hark back to the good ole days of imperialism when we employed our poor, Indian neighboors and revered them for working for two-a-penny, only to have them take over our whole world?

I agree that we should not forfeit our somewhat, mixed culture and forgo nativity plays at christmas etc but what is happening in the Daily Express, I am shocked to say, is Hitlarian propaganda.

Lost, within all of this spin, is our freedom of thought.

A very small few of us (20odd/60 million UK residents & several million other worldly residents of whom a small number post on the DE, DM)
have a very real and strong conviction as to what is just, what is fair and what we believe to have happened to a defenceless 3 yr old. We believe so strongly and speak between ourselves as we have been forced to do, for millions of others.

Yet, in this day of democracy, one small, pathetic man, with a penchant for pink shirts, has all of that shut down for good. No explanation, no apologies, no alternative way to express what we feel.

Where is the justice in that? How can we be sure our children will not become a victim of this dictatorship?

I am very afraid of where this leaves us, the average joe bloggs, in all of this. I never thought, in all of my 39 years, that 1984 that i read back in my formative years would become so prophetic in my lifetime.

I am going to bedfordshire now & i hope that no-one caught me stealing a crafty drag on my cigarette on CCTV. Otherwise, if I need my tooth pulling soon, I may just be denied help on the DHS and have to resort to the door handle!!

Good god!

& Viv, there is always room for you and Alsabella! You both have my vote - or am i allowed to split my vote?!

Dyl x

SueB said...

Hi Viv, I've just read on the McCann Files that the PJ admit the key dossier is still in Lisbon, hence delay over Rogatory letters.



Forgot the time - 22.57pm.

Anonymous said...

Lizzy I think the post you are referring to was posted as a wind up.


Dylan said...


Do you know why they are still in Lisbon?
Thought they had waited until they knew the rogatory letters would pass the test. Why would the hold-up be on the Portuguese side? I've been lead to believe that Jacqui Smith is the snag point.


dyl x

Anonymous said...

dylan, or should I call you manxie,
apparently the rogatory letters were received by the HO and returned to Portugal for some alteration. Apparently they are due to be sent back to the HO.


Dylan said...

Goodness, I hope the HO aren't tagging on the hokie cokie! Which foot are we supposed be on next?

Here's hoping the PJ are firmly planting their left foot in.

love, the manxie (maybe pseudo mccann) dyl. (paw print kiss x)

Dylan said...

Viv et al,

As promised, here are the five stages of grief. Very, very intersesting. Particularly the part about accepting new work positions. It's all too familiar. Gerry and going back to work etc.

IMVHO, the two of them have played this out on a very public stage and are/were too ignorant to believe that us, lesser mortals, might have an incling as to what is really going on.

I don't know what the state of play is for one who is forced to play out this part, as in kate, BUT, i do think she has grieved for the dead (read back viv's thoughts) and that Gerry has been very much the puppeteer.

I never have any real news, i know, but i try to help where i can. Viv - would it be ok if i sent my psychologist friend a link to your site? I know she could put things forward on these matters so much better than me!

Luv Dyl x

[edit] Enumeration of stages
The stages are:

Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."
Anger: "Why me? It's not fair."
Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my children graduate."
Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."
Kübler-Ross originally applied these stages to any form of catastrophic personal loss (job, income, freedom). This also includes the death of a loved one and divorce. Kübler-Ross also claimed these steps do not necessarily come in the order noted above, nor are all steps experienced by all patients, though she stated a person will always experience at least two.

Others have noticed that any significant personal change can elicit these stages. For example, experienced criminal defense attorneys are aware that defendants who are facing stiff sentences, yet have no defenses or mitigating factors to lessen their sentences, often experience the stages. Accordingly, they must get to the acceptance stage before they are prepared to plead guilty.

Additionally, the change in circumstances does not always have to be a negative one, just significant enough to cause a grief response to the loss (Scire, 2007). Accepting a new work position, for example, causes one to lose their routine, workplace friendships, familiar drive to work, or even customary lunch sources.

[edit] Grief

Spooky eh?

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

What a great post - I was very pleased to hear the Guardian let Claris have it about playing policeman forcing him to admit that he did not get the police blessing prior to releasing his etchsketch and falsely claiming there was a massive manhunt .. I think he plays a lot of roles way above his station! He clearly implies that he is involved with the police in the criminal investigation of the McCanns saying he has had briefings with them, when it seems clear to me the only thing they would speak to him about is agreeing to put the Find Maddie link on their webpage - that is within his role as press man for the McCanns. He is not a lawyer either!

I think the Mirror have been blatantly pro-McCann and would not have needing their arm twisting too much to stop the public replying to the ridiculous lies and propaganda they print.

Hiya LGC - There is a real irony about the DE claiming anti-McCanns target certain users! No one could fail to notice that the current holder of the title Rosie/Helen M leads the little drones on a daily basis to target one particular person who they have decided is being a nuisance to them. Also no one could fail to notice that they spend hours at a time sometimes targeting me when I am not even there! Do the DE even remove all these vile posts, let alone the perpetrators - well strangely enough, no they don’t! I have not bothered to telephone them but have had some interesting email exchanges. They agreed Muse/Assasin should be banned but completely ignored my complaints about Rosie/Maudlin/Mum21 etc. Now why would they do that? They banned 2345 instead for having the audacity to answer back! Still at least they got rid of the repulsive Lazarus who Rosie used to like to get to agree with her. Since I pointed out she is Helen M and was in the habit of making posts getting her to back up /agree with everything she just said - I note she is a little shy about doing that now. I believe that whoever is currently actually posting as Rosie - Gerry writes some of the posts. When she is challenged the subject gets changed to childrens diets or something equally obtuse until she gets chance to get another post written for her - it is quite pathetic. Speaking of complete personality transplants - has anyone noticed the complete transformation of Chinadoll who used to come on unashamedly asking if anyone wanted a fight and now writes with considerable calm and eloquence - how bizarre. I think there is a perception that some of their drones were just too aggressive and offensive. The Rosie of old used to repeatedly shout now go back and read what I just said - she is not quite the vicious school maam now is she? Although still makes that interesting remark with some frequency - "we are just trying to defend ourselves". Clearly no need to do that or be so aggressive if you are just a poster on a forum!

Your parting shot was not only extremely funny, but with your usual eloquence, seriously hit the spot WELL DONE

Luv Viv x

PS I am just going through the rest of the posts .. 00.56 1.2.08

felicity said...


Thanks for your lovely long post - you have a lot of insight and are an inspiration to us all. I am sure Luke will be OK but obviously it is a worry at the moment


Lots of love
Viv xxxxx

felicity said...

Doc - again - I read the comments of Astromum confirming Claris was instrumental in getting the Mirror closed down. It was a very strange situation really where you have a newspaper writing the most bizarre pro-McCann spin and thousands of posters telling the Mirror what a load of rubbish...I suppose it hit Claris right in the eye as to just how hopeless he is - what a bad knock for his self-esteem - just like Gerry, that would make him angry and feel destruct mode coming on..

Whilst there I was also hit with the hypocrisy of some Pro-McCann posters - whilst prolifically producing posts themselves Coldwater says:
"THe blogger was right IMHO they are sad souls whose life is empty. I can only think their vitriol stems from their jealousy of the McCanns obvious success in life, professionally and socially."

Umm so Kate has had to give up a highly paid, interesting career that she studied for at least 6 long years to achieve and lost her first born little girl but we are jealous of them - well I do not call that success in life - to my mind the major success in my life is raising three happy healthy kids who got the chance to be adults...

For a lesson in bizarre distorted thinking...just listen to a Pro-McCann

Just on a general not folks - I am so impressed with the quality of the discussion and research going on in here THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH YOU ARE A PLEASURE TO READ AND MOST INFORMATIVE FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO LEARN!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...


"I believe he knows the Mccanns are guilty but is undeterred from supporting them as he sees it as a means to making money and promoting himself."

Absolutely spot on IMO Lizzie - he has a similar personality style to Gerry McCann that decent folk find unacceptable - the ability to compartmentalise everything that is bad about their activites because it pursues their long term aim - of being rich and famous..a much needed boost to their self-esteem.

GENERALLY FOLKS THE ROGATORY LETTERS - I BELIEVE MOST LIKELY IN THE HAGUE - EUROJUST AND LEGAL WRANGLINGS GOING ON/collation of charges and evidence from many different member states...false sightings...fabrication of evidence is a serious criminal offence - we should just sit back and wait - this takes time. I still do not believe our government would prejudice this case but if I had or ever do get absolute confirmation that they are will organise a petition.

Viv x

felicity said...

Dillie - The Five Stages of Grief

Thanks very much for that - IMO Gerry has missed out most of these stages and moved very easily to the "it will be alright stage" and gone back to work. We also hear he continues with his normal social life in the Rothley area - popping into the pub for a pint and paying golf. Kate, on the other hand is a very different matter. She experiences extreme grief, guilt, recriminations and remorse. As her mother pointed out she has nightmares where Madeleine will come to her in the night. She cannot even manage to attend the local hairdressers. The idea of her going back to work as a GP is taboo. She has become reclusive and very depressed, trapped in her own little world, stuck in the home with her twins, doing her best to play the role of a normal loving mom. Clearly cannot move out of the depression stage. As such she and Gerry are poles apart. He sees there good fortune - millions to be made from book and film deals. Kate, IMO is repulsed by such ideas and would like to completely withdraw from the media stage but at Christmas was forced to do his bidding. I feel intensely sorry for Kate and do not feel she will ever recover unless she can tell the truth and relieve herself of the terrible burdens she is harbouring.

I would be extremely grateful if your qualified psychologist could join this discussion. We have other professionals here and this would be an extremely useful addition to the complement of opinion available.

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Ola minha querida Claudia

It is probably more healthy to look upon Claris as a comedian!

Lots of love
Viv x

guerra said...

I believe that even if the Mccanns manage to escape prosecution, Kate Mccann will never be seen alone again in a public setting.

dolores said...

Priest breaks seal of confession in Bronx murder.
Could this be a possible outcome for Father Pacheco and relieve him from this dreadful burden he is carrying?


felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

I think that is such an interesting article and important issue that I have put it up as a separate thread for people to comment upon.

Thanks as ever for your great contributions and intelligent research.

Love Viv x

Guerra - welcome to the forum - I agree with your sentiments - Gerry keeps a constant guard on his wife and what she may reveal. A true horror story. He is no doubt satisfied with her reclusive role. How agonising also for such an intelligent woman with a brain that needs to be occupied with more normal thoughts..

Viv x

2345 said...

Regarding Felicity's post on DE article and Clarences comments and innuendos - Leicester Police. They released the following FSS information for BBC news - BBC flew Jane Hill their News 24 reporter to Luz for live coverage of PJ's interview with McCanns on 7 September - on which day they named suspects. News transcript :

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx.. some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also "Sousa himself told of this very fine mist of spray that was found in the apartment."

It's standard practice for British Police to liaise with and inform BBC - public did not know date of the interview - only Leic. Police & PJ. The FSS information released on BBC 6 o'clock news was one aspect of PJ's questioning of the McCanns.

dogrose said...

the podcast of the LSE debate is available for down load now. it is quite long at 99 minutes but well worth a listen. Can definitly hear Clarrie mutter he shut the mirror forum down.


dogrose said...


2345 said...

littlegreycell - sorry to read about you're recent treatment on DE Forum. I was mysteriously suspended on Tues; DE response to my request for reason was permanent ban. I was accused of "being warned time and time and again and ignoring warnings". Absolute lies ... my records show no warnings were sent or received.

My suspension followed Alsabellas use of my comments "Clarence is Not President of Britain nor Governor of Cyberpsace" on her blog.

It seems DE have introduced "warnings" since I informed them my lawyer was referring Web Team's antics to Proprietor of DE.

It's good to see familiar names again - here, Alsabellas world and 3arguidos.

I always enjoyed your views and comments .... keep posting !!

2345 said...

Hello irini,

I think you've 'hit the nail on the head' regarding Rogatory letters - your intelligent deductions make perfect sense.
Well said ...

felicity said...

Hiya 2345

Great to hear from you and thanks so much for details of Jane Hill's report. Your treatment at the hands of the DE sounds very similar to my own. Maybe we are just a bit too hot for them to handle:-)

Dogrose - thanks for the link to the podcast. Clarence is not very good at handling his temper is he - fancy even blurting out he got the Mirror forum closed! Prat!

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...



Oh, my dear, so sorry to hear that they've banned you! I didn't realise.

I think it's probably no coincidence that it's happened in the same week as Clarence's star appearance at the LSE, though...sounds like he got so much stick from the public - as Kelvin admitted he also did - that the only way forward now for Team McCann is to target the most resiliently vociferous voices in opposition to their beloved employers. There's no reasoning to be done with us, and nobody on their side remotely capable of exercising any reason, anyway!

Well, apart from the injustice and shock of it all, and having your freedom of speech removed on the DE (!), you might find it comes as a relief. And it's marvellous on here! Grown-up discussion where everyone, although not totally in agreement all the time (then it wouldn't be a discussion!), is of like mind and very friendly and welcoming!

Commiserations, 2345. I'm sure I'll be joining you permanently on the naughty-step soon!


P.S. Opus says cheer yourself up with a herring or two! :)

Anonymous said...

20.45 GMT
Hello banned DE posters! Or those soon to join that honorable group.

Maybe sometimes it is better to lose the battle, and win the war?

It's interesting to see which names appear on Viv's forum. Fearless types, I think. Knowledgeable types, definitely.

This is the long 'game', I think, and I hope honest inquiry on sites like this will persevere, and see the shallow, cynical mechanics elsewhere sink to the bottom of their deepest pit: the pit of wrong doers, facing a bleak realisation; the realisation that their cynical 'game' didn't work, and there will be Justice for Madeleine, and justice for everyone who shares the values of a civilised society putting innocents first. Might WILL NOT be right in this 21st Century, although it appears they are winning the battle at the moment.
Too many people died to give us this right, and if all we have to do is challenge the word mongers, the cynics among us, then we are most fortunate, and we would be most weak if we fail to do so, imho.

SueB said...

Hi Dyl,

Apparently officials in Portugal yesterday admitted they failed to send a key dossier Home Secretary Jacqui Smith. A “letter of appeal”, with a demand that a diary belonging to mum Kate be seized along with four-year-old Maddie’s cuddle cat, never left Portugal. Senior police officers in Portugal were positive it had been sent but sources in the Portuguese Attorney General’s office yesterday admitted the file is still with them in Lisbon.
21.35 hrs

felicity said...

Hiya all

I think it is important that it is recorded here the DE removed all (or most) of the intelligent posters from their forum so that it has now degenerated into a third rate chat room. Dogmad and the lovely person from Canada (whose name escapes me!) looked like they were drowning last night!

I agree they will now have to have post mortem and reflect upon how their infamously nasty little strategies just did not work - counter productive in the extreme!

Sue - thanks for confirming the rogatory letter situation just seems to be an administrative cock up - I know they do need Kate's diary as a vital piece of evidence in court. In serious criminal cases "state of mind" is always a crucial factor. It is something the prosecution will deal with in depth. Can they establish there was "intention" to prove murder or can they establish there was "recklessness" to prove manslaughter. What does Kate's own state of mind say about the intentions of Gerry? Very crucial questions indeed.

Viv x 10.51 2.2.08