16 Jan 2008


Unanswered Prayers
After three-year-old Madeleine McCann disappeared on a family vacation in Portugal, her parents pursued a high-stakes strategy: media saturation. It succeeded beyond their wildest imaginings—winning the aid of everyone from J. K. Rowling to the Pope—and failed miserably. Getting the first in-depth interview with Gerry McCann since he and his wife, Kate, were declared suspects, the author re-traces their footsteps to their daughter’s empty bed.
by Judy Bachrach WEB EXCLUSIVE January 10, 2008

Kate and Gerry McCann appealed to Pope Benedict XVI in St. Peter’s Square, in Rome, four weeks after Madeleine’s disappearance. Felici SNC/Grazia Neri/Polaris.
On a hot day last September, four months after their daughter, Madeleine, almost four, vanished from a sleepy resort town in Portugal during a family vacation, Kate and Gerry McCann, both British doctors, opened their villa door to a local policeman.
The policeman’s name was Ricardo, and he had been, relatively speaking, on friendly terms with the couple. He knew their circumstances. Their lives, heavy with grief since their daughter’s disappearance, had undergone a few small improvements. Kate had grown shockingly thin, but at least she was eating regular meals.
This time, however, the bearing of the detective from the Policia Judiciária was different. And the McCanns were not entirely surprised. “Because for months they used to have regular weekly meetings with the Portuguese police, and then they stopped,” recalls Gerry’s older sister Trish Cameron, who was in the villa at the time. Also, without the McCanns’ knowledge or consent, the police had photocopied Kate’s diary, examined her borrowed Bible, and removed Gerry’s laptop.
“Do you have something to tell us?” Ricardo asked, dramatically.
“No,” Kate replied. “Do you have something to tell us?”
He nodded. “Yes. You are being made arguidos.” He was using the Portuguese word for “formal suspects.”
It was at that point, Trish says, that her sister-in-law became incandescent with rage, screaming, “Do you honestly believe that I would murder my own child?”
“No,” said the policeman.
The Portuguese police, as they informed the world through calculated leaks to their own media, simply believed that Gerry, a Scottish cardiologist, and Kate, a general practitioner, both 39, were lying when they said their daughter had been abducted from their resort villa the night of May 3. Authorities now suspected the McCanns were somehow responsible for their daughter’s death and the disposal of her body, though in what manner no one seems to know. Local incinerators have been scoured, to no avail. The $4 million reward for information leading to Madeleine’s recovery; the televised pleas by the McCanns; the hiring of Control Risks Groups, a security firm whose directors included former S.A.S. commander Sir Michael Rose; the Find Madeleine Web site visited by more than 80 million people in three months after the disappearance—these, the police believed, were all red herrings.
And for a long time the global media were of the same opinion. “Could Kate and Gerry McCann have had a hand in their own child’s disappearance?” People magazine asked in September. By October, Britain’s Daily Mail had an answer: new dna tests “put the mccanns back under suspicion.” Body fluids found in a car rented by the McCanns 25 days after Madeleine disappeared, it was subsequently reported, matched 88 percent of the child’s genetic profile. (A problem with this information, British DNA specialist Nigel Hodge informs me, is that most genetic profiles are based on 20 DNA components. “And 88 is not divisible by 20,” he says flatly. Moreover: “If there are DNA components that do not match, the DNA could not come from that person.”)

A photo of Madeleine taken on May 3, 2007, the day she disappeared. Kate McCann/PA Photos/Landov.
Undaunted, the tabloids summoned up yet another genetic fantasy: maddie: who’s her daddy? asked the Daily Star in October, implying that Gerry is not Madeleine’s biological father. (The girl was conceived through in-vitro fertilization.) As the news industry trumpeted All Madeleine All the Time, and Barbara Walters and Oprah clamored for interviews, Kate’s elegant face grew more gaunt in each tabloid photo. Meanwhile, a British poll revealed that 48 percent of all respondents believed the couple could have been responsible for their daughter’s death. Only 20 percent considered them completely innocent.
“Yes, yes, I know,” Gerry says bitterly. “Kate killed her in a frenzy, Madeleine was sedated by us, she fell down the stairs—in which case you would have thought they’d have found her body. I’ve heard all that! There have been a huge number of theories in the media. But what I want to know is—who told them all that?”
In fact, much of what is aired or printed about the vanished girl and her parents is mendacious, mistaken, or just plain conflicting: according to the press, to various detectives, and to top Portuguese authorities, the child is alternatively alive in Morocco (or maybe Portugal or Bosnia) or dead, killed one moment by kidnappers and in other instances by family. In all these hypotheses the supporting facts are invented, from the reason for Kate’s lack of public emotion to the first acts of the Portuguese police (dubbed “the Keystone Cops” and “Butt Heads” by reporters). Thus, the media has managed to rob the McCanns of their daughter a second time. And to complicate matters, it was Gerry McCann himself who, two days after Madeleine’s disappearance, ignited the media conflagration that is now consuming the couple.
It is Gerry who is behind what he tells me is “the marketing … a high public awareness” of Madeleine. At his side while we talk is Clarence Mitchell, a voluble former government media analyst and BBC reporter, handpicked by Gerry to be the latest in a line of spokesmen. On October 17, Mitchell spoke at Coventry University. His topic: “Missing Madeleine McCann: The Perfect PR Campaign.” Except that it has been anything but perfect.
It has in fact been so counterproductive that, as winter approached, Portuguese attorney general Fernando Pinto Monteiro suggested that one way or another the McCanns were responsible for their child’s death. Specifically he said that if indeed Madeleine had been kidnapped, it was the carefully contrived publicity engineered by her parents that likely sealed her fate. “With the whole world having Madeleine’s photo,” he observed, any abductor would have been pushed to such a degree that “there’s a greater probability of the little girl being dead than alive.”
And with this last devastating conclusion—namely that Madeleine will likely never reappear—Madeleine’s own father haltingly agrees.
Gerry McCann has vivid blue eyes set in an impassive face, and a jaw that has grown more angular and prominent as the tragedy has unfolded and almost seven pounds have melted from his frame. There are those, including a onetime close associate, who find him difficult and controlling, feeling he has the trademark arrogance and self-regard of many surgeons. And his judgment is certainly questionable. In the fall, for instance, it emerged that the McCanns had made two mortgage payments from the $2.4 million fund set up to find Madeleine. But months of anguish have taken their toll, and now there is mainly resignation.
When the policeman came to their door with the bad news that they were now suspects, Gerry simply asked him to leave. “Why shoot the messenger? I felt that saying anything more was not going to change what happened,” he says.
Kate, however, cannot help replaying the circumstances that led to the child’s disappearance—the work, she is certain, of a mysterious abductor. “I will tell you what I haven’t told anyone,” says Jon Corner, a family friend. “In August, I was with Kate in Portugal. She told me, ‘I wish I could roll back time and go back to the day before Madeleine was abducted. I would slow down time. I would get a really good look around and have a really good think. And I’d think: Where are you? Who are you? Who is secretly watching my family? Because someone was watching my family very, very carefully. And taking notes.’ ”
“That’s a logical conclusion for anyone who knows anything about what happened to us,” Gerry says briskly. This is his first detailed and candid interview since being declared a suspect, and so great is his loathing of most journalists that it takes place in utter secrecy near his home, in Leicestershire. In a country inn lined with portraits of ladies in powdered wigs, a polite manager points the way to the back exit, in the event other reporters drop by.
While front-page stories about the McCanns sell newspapers—up to 30,000 extra copies a day—perhaps because they happen to be a handsome, prosperous couple wrecked by tragedy (“Let’s face it: if Kate were fat and spotty and aging, they wouldn’t be selling all these papers,” says Trish), the British media believe that sales don’t really soar unless the couple is accused of villainy. “The last equivalent story was probably the Second World War,” observed a columnist for The Guardian. When, in November, Panorama, a BBC newsmagazine show, bought the same five-month-old footage of the McCanns (shot by a family friend) as ABC’s 48 Hours and repackaged it, viewership rose by 2 million, to 5.3 million.
In this search for villainy, the British tabloids are aided by the most unlikely ally: the Portuguese police, who are often the sources for some of the more outrageous allegations, unquestioningly swallowed by the Portuguese media.
“No, the leak about [Madeleine’s] DNA not being compatible with Gerry’s is not malicious, not at all,” a Portuguese journalist tells me sarcastically, referring to the who’s her daddy? headline, before turning deadly earnest. “It is revenge, pure and simple. Because the British attack our police as stupid. And backward. And incompetent. Because they say we are a primitive country and our laws are primitive!”
The Portuguese police “don’t want to be portrayed as a leather-jacketed, swearing bunch of fat, greasy villains who beat people up with rubber hoses,” one of the most active in the McCann camp tells me, and yet this is exactly how they have been portrayed.
Thus the Madeleine frenzy, which began as a story about bad judgment and irretrievable loss, has spun out of control, each day bringing fresh allegations, outrage, celebrity alliances—the Pope! J. K. Rowling! David Beckham!—and sensational links to power. At the E.U. summit in mid-October, for instance, British prime minister Gordon Brown, who had regularly been in touch with the McCanns, raised the Madeleine issue with Portuguese prime minister José Sócrates, urging “proper cooperation between the British and Portuguese police.” Gerry’s allies were jubilant.
And yet this high-powered strategy has also backfired. There appears to be massive resentment among the Portuguese. Although Madeleine’s photo is posted at Heathrow, it is nowhere to be found at Faro, the airport nearest the seaside village from which she disappeared.
Shortly after the McCanns hired a team of Spanish private investigators, in early October, word leaked out that the Portuguese police had stopped their search for Madeleine (at least temporarily). Nothing the parents have done has worked out right.
“The McCanns have completely changed the way we now look for missing children—it used to be you go to the police; now it means you go to the media, to celebrities,” says a disapproving Scotland Yard specialist in abused children.
“There are many cases in the world of children who have disappeared,” Portuguese national police chief Alípio Ribeiro recently complained. “But none have this external component, this massive public exposure, that gives it a fantastic, almost surreal dimension.”
The McCanns are both reviled and pitied, occasionally in the same breath. Madeleine’s face has appeared on movie screens, on cell phones, in e-mails, in airports, in health centers, and on British Airways planes. “So the strategy we used,” says Gerry, “well—somehow something caught the public’s imagination.” But it has not caught their daughter’s abductor.
The McCanns are also fairly sure their phones are monitored not only by the British police, who are waiting to see if a kidnapper calls, but also by Portuguese authorities. “It’s quite possible,” acknowledges Gerry’s older brother, John McCann, a pharmaceutical salesman who lives in Glasgow. “Because there’s information that’s been appearing in the press that you’d have to think, How did that get into the public domain? Because it wasn’t us releasing it. Every now and again, amidst all the speculation and rumor and outright lies, there’s been a grain of truth.”
“What happened in the last two months has clearly polarized people,” Gerry says slowly. “People can support you in your darkest hours, and in our case the darkest hour was of course when Madeleine went missing.”
And now, I wonder, with all the polarization?
“And now it is just”—he swallows hard—“bleak.”
Praia da Luz (population 1,000) is regularly described, with reason, as “a little Britain.” The same could be said of the entire Algarve, the southern Portuguese province in which the village is situated, which was partially ransacked in the late 16th century by the Earl of Essex. That tradition is now carried on by more than 50,000 British property owners in the area. Signs are in English, and every other commercial establishment proclaims itself an “Irish pub,” which means Carling beer and, on Sundays, shoulder of lamb and “Yorkie pud.” At 10 o’clock one very warm morning, four beet-red Englishmen sampling lagers in an outdoor café steps away from the turquoise sea are being scolded by their desperate guide: “You are always drunk before noon!”
New security guards, in burgundy berets and black military pants, now ring portions of the Ocean Club resort, where the McCanns were staying until mid-September. The village is quite desolate. The heart went out of it last May.
For almost a week last spring, the McCanns’ holiday routine was unvarying. After high tea, at 5:30 p.m., Madeleine and her two-year-old twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, would be retrieved by their parents from the kids’ club. Two hours later the children were put to bed back in their own room in an unprepossessing corner villa, its two entrances bordered by terra-cotta tile and a small white wall covered with pink bougainvillea. The back door, reached by a gate and a flight of steps, was left unlocked.
Then the McCanns would join seven friends at the resort’s tapas bar, close by the swimming pool, an area described by Gerry as “like being at the bottom of your garden.… You could see our apartment from where we were.” You can indeed glimpse the very top part. However, in order to see anyone entering through the back, one would have to dine standing up. The other entrance to the villa is not visible at all.
At intervals, members of the group (since dubbed “the Tapas Nine”) checked on one another’s children, although this method was imperfect. The night of May 3, Gerry checked on Madeleine, fast asleep in her pink-and-white Winnie the Pooh pajamas, and the twins, at 9:05, but the friend who next checked on the McCann children said afterward that he did not actually see Madeleine.
Thus the most important clue to the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance was initially ignored. At around 9:15, another friend, Jane Tanner, emerged from her own villa to see a white man in beige trousers—five feet six, brown hair (longer in the back), and perhaps 35, she later told the police. In his arms he cradled a child wearing pink-and-white pajamas.
It wasn’t until Kate walked into the villa at 10 and felt a sickening breeze—the front window had been jimmied open—that she realized something terrible had happened. “The scene was stark,” Gerry tells me. On one bed the twins lay sleeping. In the next lay only the plush cat toy Madeleine was never without. That was when Kate came out screaming, “Madeleine has gone!”
In subsequent moments, she seems to have added, “They’ve taken her! We have let her down!” This was the version Sheena Rawcliffe, the managing director of The Resident, a local English-language newspaper, quickly learned, albeit secondhand, and the phrasing puzzled her. What was meant by “They”? It was the first element to ignite suspicion in the Portuguese press, but not the only one. What kind of parents would go out to eat and leave their small children alone in the room, especially in a country where restaurants welcome children, the local press wondered. Why didn’t they hire one of the resort’s babysitters? What child can actually fall asleep at 7:30 p.m.? In Portugal, as in many Latin countries, bedtime for even small kids might be as late as 10.
Moreover, Rawcliffe says, “If my child were missing, I wouldn’t think right away he was abducted. I would think, Where has the little bugger gone?”
But the McCanns were certain of their suspicions. “Wee Madeleine knows better than to wander away,” another of Gerry’s sisters, Philomena McCann, recalls him saying. And besides, the child was too small to open the window and crawl out. Gerry spent the night scouring the village for his daughter, and talking on his cell phone to relatives.
“Well, never in my life had I heard my wee brother so devastated,” says Philomena, who lives in Ullapool, in northern Scotland. “He was absolutely wailing on the phone. He was incomprehensible at times.”
“It’s all my fault, because Kate and I went out to dinner,” he wept to Philomena, who was stunned. She adds, “My wee brother is not a person who panics—he and Kate are very measured people, usually. That’s when I knew how bad things were.”
At 4:30 in the morning, when the search was temporarily called off, the McCanns found a policeman by their door, smoking, seemingly unworried. “Help me, please help me!” a frantic Kate sobbed into her cell phone to a childhood friend. The police had done nothing overnight, she added; the couple were all alone with no one to turn to.
That same morning, Gerry’s sister Trish phoned the BBC in Glasgow and sent photos of the beautiful little girl who had vanished from the resort. “The day after Madeleine was abducted, as Kate and I left the police station, there were 150 journalists in front of it,” Gerry recalls. “Alex Woolfall [the McCanns’ first spokesperson] explained to me that either I interact with the media or we would be hounded by the press.”
Actually, reporters noticed, Gerry seemed to interact avidly. Within a week, the media ranks in the tiny village swelled to 200: Dutch, German, Spanish, and Portuguese nudging their British and American counterparts. Until very recently, Sky News covered the story in such depth that the top three offerings on its Web site were “UK News,” “Madeleine,” and “World News.” The Portuguese police had never seen anything like it.
In the months following the child’s disappearance, the supposed incompetence of the Portuguese police was the subject of many devastating articles in the press, with an attitude wryly summed up by the Scotland Yard detective as “Johnny Dago is not good enough to do it.” This was at the precise time that, as Gerry explains, “we were relying on the Portuguese to find Madeleine, and it was not helpful at all.” However, since the media were, without a doubt, fed in part by the McCann camp, it is hard to know whom to blame.
It wasn’t true, for instance, that there were no fingertip searches performed at the villa, as reported by one British tabloid, or that the shutters were contaminated in the investigation, as reported by another; two on-the-scene reporters claim that personnel in Portuguese C.S.I. uniforms were seen taking fingerprints from those shutters early on, and then dispatched them to the Instituto Nacional de Medicina Legal in Porto and Coimbra. Nor did police treat Madeleine’s disappearance lightly.
As Woolfall explains, when he arrived a day and a half after Madeleine had vanished: “There were lots of police, I have to say. There is a big emphasis placed on children and family in Portugal. There was no doubt there was a massive effort trying to find her. And you had Portuguese policemen canceling leave and working over weekends.”
On the other hand, the moment police investigate a crime in Portugal, the country’s judicial-secrecy laws basically shroud everything—facts, names, suspects, witnesses—in a blanket of silence. Police press conferences are almost nonexistent; information is usually obtained only through leaks. (In Madeleine’s case, the police appointed a spokesperson, but after being kept clueless by his colleagues, he ultimately resigned.) There are other drawbacks—for example, Portugal has no DNA data banks or national missing-child alerts.
Moreover, Praia da Luz is not the ideal venue for a topflight criminal investigation. Gonçalo Amaral, who for five months was the senior detective in the case, is himself involved in another legal battle. He is accused of covering up a beating by his subordinates of a Portuguese woman who was ultimately convicted of killing her own child. Locally there are no cadaver dogs trained in tracking human blood or remains; after Madeleine vanished, local residents actually used household pets under the guidance of police with drug-sniffing dogs. “Let me tell you, I know a lot about detective dogs, and I don’t know why the police would want anyone bringing their pets to assist,” says Robert Tucker, who runs a New York security firm.
“One of the things the McCanns very much wanted was a forensic sketch of the man the witness saw carrying the girl wearing pink-and-white pajamas,” recalls Justine McGuinness, an early spokesperson for the McCanns. In the vital first months, their pleas went unanswered. In addition, newspapers claimed the sheets on Madeleine’s bed were never sent for analysis.
Besides, by May 15 the police (with the help of a suspicious British journalist from the Sunday Mirror) believed they had found their man: Robert Murat, a mild, slightly plump Englishman of 33 with a detached retina who lives with his mother in a large villa with a lush garden three minutes from the resort. He was declared an arguido—a status he holds to this day, along with the McCanns—and brought in to the police station for 19 hours of interrogation, say his relatives, with no food or sleep.
There, I learn on good authority, three of the Tapas Nine were put into a room with Murat, and each of them identified him as a man they’d seen hanging about the resort in the hours after Madeleine vanished. One of the witnesses, Fiona Payne, told police she’d actually seen him behind the McCanns’ villa that night, and recalled his “dodgy eye.” Another, Russell O’Brien, claimed Murat had said he spoke Portuguese as well as English, which is in fact the case. The McCann friends were not alone in their suspicions. By late December it emerged that three other witnesses claimed to have seen Murat near the McCanns’ villa apartment the night of the abduction.
It is part of the odd dynamic of this story that when I phone Sally Eveleigh, Murat’s cousin, who also lives in Praia da Luz, her first remark is that she cannot utter a syllable about Murat without the O.K. of her British press agent, the famously rambunctious Max Clifford. And when his blessing is secured, her second is: “Wonderful, darling, see you shortly. Robert can’t talk to you, because he’s an arguido. But we’ll have a bit of a party, won’t we?”
When I arrive at her massive house, lined with rosy tile and Moroccan rugs, Sally greets me in floor-length blue voile trimmed with pretty stones. And the party includes Murat: five feet 10 inches, dark-haired, wearing beige trousers, serving us tea, wine, and cigarettes.
“All I can say,” says Murat, “is that I am innocent. There is no way I was at the resort that night. Full stop. I was in my mother’s kitchen until one a.m. Yes, we are a kitchen kind of family. I spent the night at the house.” As an arguido he cannot reveal more. But he does drive me around and point out the major landmarks of the case. “That’s the apartment from which Madeleine vanished,” he says. “That’s my mother’s villa.” The police ransacked the place four months ago and came up with nothing.
‘I wish I hadn’t gone to the tapas bar. I wish I’d stayed in the apartment that night. I wish I’d stayed in the room when I checked on her five minutes longer,” Gerry recalls thinking in the days that followed his child’s disappearance. The world, he says, was “all black, with maybe tiny points of light.” The company that owns the resort sent Alan Pike, a trauma counselor, over from Britain, and he spoke to the couple every day for two weeks. Initially, the counselor tells me, he found the couple “catatonic.” They were certain Madeleine was dead.
But pessimism, the counselor knew, inhibits action. Moreover, he adds, “they still needed to be a mother and father to two other children.”
“Remind yourself of the evidence: there is nothing yet to demonstrate that Madeleine has died,” Pike told the McCanns. It’s time, he added, to take control of the things you can.
Gerry felt re-invigorated by such advice. “We can’t cry our eyes out every day, because that’s not helping,” he says. “So after three days I picked myself up—quicker than Kate could.”
Indeed, Woolfall recalls Gerry’s saying shortly after he arrived, “My biggest fear is that this could be a weekend story: british girl taken from portuguese resort—a terrible story! And then that’s it.” The fickleness of the media, Woolfall adds, had Gerry worried. They might so easily “move on to something else,” Gerry told him. Gradually a strategy was devised: stories, pictures, and exotic destinations were woven together, permanently enrapturing the press and luring it into a long, sleepless vigil.
By the end of May, an audience with the Pope had been arranged through the Westminster office of Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor. The couple and a pool of reporters flew direct from Praia da Luz to the Pontiff in a Learjet belonging to the British billionaire Sir Philip Green.
Other celebrities were just as carefully selected and eagerly appealed to: J. K. Rowling, in part, Gerry explains, because the Harry Potter author had lived in Portugal for a time. Manchester United star Cristiano Ronaldo, because he is Portuguese, and Gerry used to play soccer himself. David Beckham—another Gerry idea—who was living in Spain at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance. Experts in child abduction had informed the McCanns that Madeleine was very likely still somewhere on the Iberian Peninsula.
The media were constantly sought out. Reporters followed the McCanns on trips to Washington (where then U.S. attorney general Alberto Gonzales met with the couple); to Morocco—just in case Madeleine had been taken there—where they met with Charki Draiss, director-general of national security; and to Amsterdam, where the McCanns had once lived. If the networks needed fresh footage, they would be told the exact time the McCanns might be walking to church in Praia da Luz.
So, as it turned out, this was not a weekend story. As time went by, Gerry explains that although “grief washes over you—it’s like a big wave, mostly I was able to beat it back.” The industry he poured into the search jolted him out of depression.
But Kate wasn’t buoyed. From time to time, she would turn to friends and offer a wistful half-plea—“I hope whoever has Madeleine is giving her blankets … is feeding her properly … is keeping her warm.” Not really absorbing at first, her confidant explains, “what kind of person this was.”
Eventually, though, the probable nature of the abductor was brought home to her in the most explicit and horrifying way. Never talk about Madeleine’s preferences to the press, British police warned the McCanns, because whatever Madeleine most loves—a favorite cartoon, say—could be used as a tool for manipulation by her kidnapper.
Madeleine’s mother was also warned not to weep in public. “That was one of the things they were told right from the beginning,” McGuinness reveals. “Don’t show any emotion, because whoever took the child could get off on that, and take it out on the child. Or the abductor might find tears stimulating in some way. Appalling when you’re being told not to show any emotion in public and your daughter is abducted!”
Appalling and, as it turned out, dangerous for the couple. The P.R. campaign was actually backfiring, regarded by many as slick and, given the gravity of the McCanns’ loss, at times downright strange. “I always wanted to meet the pope,” a British reader e-mailed The Resident newspaper, “and now I know how.” Portuguese police made note of Kate’s seeming stoicism in front of the press—the tearless face. They also marveled at the powerful allies the McCanns had accumulated.
“Why are these people able to put together the biggest media campaign ever, from the Pope to the White House?” asks Paulo Reis, a Portuguese freelance journalist who writes a blog about Madeleine, and with considerable authority: he seems to have excellent contacts in law enforcement. “Why are they all coming out strongly defending the McCanns? Who are the McCanns?” he wonders.
Kate and Gerry McCann are both Roman Catholic, the children of carpenters, and products of Scottish medical training, but there the resemblance ends. Gerry, the youngest of five children, is by far the more ambitious and confident of the couple, secure always in the knowledge, as his sister Philomena explains, “that he was absolutely the pet of the family.” As a result, his brother, John, tells me, he grew up “very sociable, always involved in clubs—football clubs, athletic clubs. He likes mixing with people. And like most of us in the family, quite competitive.”
Kate Healy, a deeply religious only child from Liverpool, once confided to her sister-in-law, “There were too many times when I’ve been alone,” and that solitude evidently left its mark. On meeting her in 1992 the boisterous McCanns found her, John recalls, “reserved.” (Although this reserve was apparently not impenetrable. At the University of Dundee, as the Mail on Sunday recently discovered, Kate’s nickname was “Hot Lips Healy,” and she was renowned, according to her yearbook, for leading friends astray during “alcoholic binges.” When asked about this recently by a friend, Kate groaned and said, “My God! I hope they don’t get the rest of that part of my life.”)
At first, she was not deeply impressed by Gerry, refusing even to go out with him. In 1996, she moved to New Zealand to work as an anesthesiologist in a hospital, and it was only when an impassioned Gerry followed her that the family realized the relationship was serious. They married in 1998 and settled initially in Glasgow.
There Kate shifted career course, abandoning anesthesiology for the regular hours and relatively modest pay of a general practitioner. “To be honest, I don’t think Kate is ambitious,” Philomena says. “The career wasn’t as important to her as having a family.”
That family, however, took years to materialize. There were two rounds of in-vitro fertilization, culminating in Madeleine: “As close to a perfect child as you can get,” says Gerry. Less than two years later another round resulted in the twins—born after a very difficult pregnancy, during which, Philomena says, Kate was confined to her bed for months and almost lost them.

“To be perfectly honest, Kate continued to work as a doctor simply for the economics of it,” says Philomena. “Even though she ended up working only one and a half days a week, that money made a big difference to them. Gerry could have managed to support them all, but it would have been difficult, a stretch for him.”
The press has regularly portrayed the couple as far wealthier. Huge emphasis has been put on the large, $1.2 million neo-Georgian-style house in Rothley, Leicestershire, into which the couple moved in 2006.
“People may think, Ooh, these rich middle-class McCanns,” John says bitterly. “Well, these rich middle-class McCanns have studied for donkey’s years, made loads of sacrifices, and put themselves through a lot of inconvenience to get where they are just now. For Catholics, we’ve got a strong Protestant work ethic!” He shakes his head when asked about how things used to be for the couple.
“Everything going for them, perfect family. And as we all know from great bits of literature, sometimes the fates intervene to ruin perfection,” he says. But philosophy fails him when he thinks of Madeleine. “This is our wee girl. My niece! Their darling daughter, for Christ’s sake!”
“So beautiful, astonishingly bright, and I’d have to say very charismatic. She would shine out of a crowd,” family friend Jon Corner says of the child. “So—God forgive me—maybe that’s part of the problem. That special quality. Some bastard picked up on that.”
As months went by, the McCanns turned desperate. There they were, still in Praia da Luz, with nothing to show for it. “We had been trying to persuade Kate to come home,” recalls Gerry’s sister Trish. “But they lived in dread that if Madeleine turned up in Portugal and they weren’t there, it would be horrible.”
Although initially reluctant, the McCanns finally informed the media of Madeleine’s unique right eye—a risky revelation. Whoever had taken the child now held a universally recognizable little girl.

Gerry understood that. But, he says, the iris “is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or”—he grimaces—“her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”

On the 100th day of her disappearance, however, the marketing of Madeleine came to a halt. On August 11, the police spokesman, Olegário de Sousa, gave an interview to the BBC in which he said clues had been found “that could point to the possible death of the little child.”
The McCanns were livid. They had entertained this idea, but their fears had been partially allayed during their July trip to see the U.S. attorney general. “We learned in Washington that there are plenty of cases where peoples’ children were discovered after two years!” says McGuinness. “And some cases where people’s children were discovered after four years.” That, she adds, is what “kept Kate going.”
But the police felt they had good reason to suspect the child was dead. They had borrowed a pair of springer spaniels trained by South Yorkshire police to smell particles of blood so minute they are invisible to humans. The animals seemed to have picked up the scent of a corpse on Kate’s trousers and on the key fob of the couple’s rental car. (The McCann camp claimed that as a doctor Kate had been near corpses, but since she is a general practitioner the press scoffed at the explanation.)
More than any other evidence, it was the surprising reaction of the dogs from Britain that led Portuguese police to declare the couple official suspects. The investigators thought they had other clues: there was DNA possibly belonging to Madeleine in the McCann car, rented 25 days after the child vanished, but as that car had at various times contained the missing girl’s hairbrushes and sandals, and the soiled diapers of her siblings, the evidence is not wholly conclusive. Moreover, forensic DNA specialist Nigel Hodge, who has investigated more than 1,000 criminal cases, tells me that, in very rare instances, “it is possible for sisters to have the same DNA profile.”
In mid-September, Kate and Gerry were brought in separately to a dingy four-story police station for questioning—Kate first, for 11 hours, and on the next day 7 more. The questioning was interminable, says Trish, who was at the station, in part because “there was no interpreter. At one point there were six people in front of Kate—cops and a lawyer—and they were all just speaking Portuguese!”
Finally, she adds, Kate was given a long list of interpreters, many of whom lived 200 miles away in Lisbon, and told to choose. “Kate was furious at that as well,” Trish recalls.
Over and over again, I am told by a McCann family member, Kate was shown footage of the dogs. It was the animals’ reaction to the scent inside the McCanns’ rental car that particularly interested the authorities.
But the police had more on their minds, as they informed Kate. From what they’d read of her diary, she was clearly a stressed-out mother. Her children were difficult to put to sleep, weren’t they? They needed sedatives to sleep, perhaps? Maybe that’s how Madeleine died? Will you confess, they asked.
Then the police went over a passage from the borrowed Bible found in Kate’s villa: verses in the second Book of Samuel, Chapter 12. The page containing the passage was crumpled. The verses in question deal with the illness and death of King David’s child, a tragedy that occurs after David “scorned the Lord.” Obviously such a page had meaning for her, the police said.
To compound matters, one of Kate’s lawyers, Carlos Pinto de Abreu, relayed to her that if she confessed to having inadvertently killed her daughter and disposing of the corpse, things might go easier. Her jail term might even be as little as two years.
“I’m not going to fucking lie!” Kate barked. The next day she stopped answering a fair number of police questions. “She had already answered some of them,” says Trish. “And her lawyer told her she didn’t have to answer questions.”
“As I suppose you know,” Pike, the trauma counselor, tells me, “the police told her during the interviews that her other two children might be taken away.”
It was time to go home, Gerry decided by September 9. But not alone.
“When Gerry and Kate were about to go home to Britain, Gerry phoned Sky News and said, ‘We’re going home on EasyJet, be on it!’ ” recalls Esther Addley, who has written incisively about the McCanns for The Guardian.
On the couple’s return, there was further pain to contend with. More than 17,000 people had signed a petition suggesting that Leicestershire social services investigate them for leaving their three small children completely alone in the villa.
‘At the time we did it, it was not irresponsible!” Gerry snaps. It is the one subject on which he is quite defensive, arguing first one way, then conceding the opposite: “Of course we feel guilty about not having been there, and that is just something we have to deal with for the rest of our lives. You are not asking anything we don’t think about on a daily basis. We live this 24 hours a day.” His lips twist as he struggles for composure. “But I can’t talk to you about the details of what happened. I live under threat from the Portuguese—if I do talk—of two years’ imprisonment.” He smiles grimly. “It seems to be the same sentence as disposing of a child’s body.”

The mayor of tiny Praia da Luz, Manuel Domingues Borba, announced just a few weeks ago that he for one “would never leave my children sleeping alone and go to dinner in a foreign country.” The McCanns, in his opinion, are “guilty of negligence at the very least.” The Portuguese police, under chief Alípio Ribeiro, are reviewing the case. Some of their detectives, I am told, will likely be flying to Britain soon to re-interview the McCanns, although no official request has yet been made. Should the McCanns actually be charged and tried, their legal strategy will be to focus, in part, on what they claim is the unreliability of evidence turned up by the dogs and to try to move the trial to Britain from Portugal. The McCanns live in perpetual limbo. There is no exit.
By early January there was more bad news: Correio da Manhã, a Portuguese newspaper, claimed that the Policia Judiciária were about to deliver an interim report suggesting the McCanns were “prime suspects” after all, who could have accidentally killed Madeleine and then disposed of her body. Or, the report added, perhaps the child was in fact abducted. In other words, eight months after the little girl vanished, the police still know nothing.
Lately, word has leaked out that the McCanns feel abandoned even by Gordon Brown, once their close ally. Their spokesman doesn’t quite deny this. “That was one of our backers who said it. We would never be that impolitic,” he says. “But it is true that we have requested a meeting with the prime minister to show him the strength of our case, to explain Kate and Gerry’s innocence—and yet all we’ve been offered is a medium-level-consular meeting, which we rejected.”
Occasionally their $1,200-an-hour lawyer Angus McBride, whose salary is defrayed by Virgin founder Sir Richard Branson, Scottish businessman Stephen Winyard, and Brian Kennedy, a multi-millionaire rugby-team owner, drops in on the British tabloids to protest headlines such as portuguese paper smear: “kate killed madeleine as gerry played tennis.”
For Kate, this is all too much. At nights, as her mother recently informed one newspaper, she awakes and thinks Madeleine has come home. While her husband and I talk, she ducks into the local Catholic church, unable, despite her earlier resolve, to face a single question.
Kate is fragile, I say to Gerry.
“That is undoubtedly true,” he concedes. “It’s very difficult to describe this situation. One month, three months, five months, five and a half months. And I know now that, probably, the chances of getting Madeleine back are slim. You know, it’s difficult. Very difficult.” He swallows hard. “You might never see her again. But still you have the hope. Still.”
On Sunday he will join his despairing wife in church, even though, as Gerry puts it, “I am not the most religious person in the world.” The whole McCann family is going to church more often, for that matter, even his skeptical older brother.
“What would you do when you’re desperate?” says John. “You start to ask the big questions again: Why does this happen?”
“And,” he says wearily, “I think there’s probably still no God


Ironside said...

16.01.08, 6:42am

It took the mccanns to milk this story in less than 24 hours....Madeleine mccann has not I repeat not been related to her case in any way shape or form....Mari Luz went to buy a packet of crisps....and was last seen by the shop owner...

Last week madeleine had been raped and was in the lake....then she was being hunted down
by a bunch of paedo's near Alicante...

Two days ago her remains were being searched for in a pet crematorium...

Just when you think this dispicable pair can sink no lower...the gutter, they are now in the bowels of the earth....

Another victim...to add to the evergrowing list
they will stop at nothing...even the pain of a
gypsy family...The Cortez family are gypsies
they are poor....but one thing you wont see is them with begging bowls outside their local bars, as the mccanns did inPDL....you wont see
Mari Luz mother with ribbons in her hair....her father wont be jogging...her mother has not made an appointment at the hairdresser's....

What you will see is pain and through the pain there will be dignity....

I hope Mari Luz is found safe and well...Prayers
are being held for her in chapels around spain....this will not be reported by the gutter press...BECAUSE this is about mary luz and not madeleine mccann

• Posted by: IRONSIDE • Report Comment

Ironside said...

Alsabella...I will answer your question here...as I seem to miss you on the DX...and the answer is know anyone carrying out these activities will be arrested...It's
not happening Alsabella its all lies....just like there is no ongoing campaigns in Spain or Morroco...Many morrocans work here they all speak spanish to a degree...Ask anyone of them about the campaign in Morroco they do not know what I am talking about....There is no one here Alsabella if there was it would be on the news....Its all lies....We know the mccanns well by now....and there love for publicity
dont you think..there would be photo's in the press of the campaigns if they existed....photos of private detectives arriving at a spanish airport....
Guardia Civil call Metodo a bunch of charlatans....
I repeat Alsabella...it is all lies
No one would be permitted to carry out this type of investigation here.....that is a job for Guardia Civil and know one gets in their way...Metodo know this....
Also this case has not been reported here on the news and likened to madeleine mccann....
I f you recall the gutter press
said only three days ago they were looking for madeleines remains in a
pet crenatorium....That was also a lie....Madeleine was not mentioned

It was Sarah and Yeremi...they are poison...using innocent children
to save their own skin....

Alsabella..O'Brian JT and mccanns
have a weird relationship...a bond...If you can get in touch with PJ.....and ask them to do a check..DNA on JT's daughter...madeleine and her daughter were born with in two months of each other...madeleine may have been premature....This has been in my mind for a long time...It would not surprise me if these two children are not from the same donor....

lizzy said...

You were exactly right and do you know what sickens me these people will do anything to try to clear themselves and make money.They are their 2 priorities, did you ever see that video when Gerry and Kate were asked what are your feelings when people say they have seen Madeleine? and he visibly smirked at Kate. They are truly despicable people and I hope to god the police have enough to charge them as it is so important they face justice for Madeleine's sake , otherwise they will continue to profit from her death and to me that shpws no remorse, interesting point re JT'S daughter, makes you wonder if they do have the same donar..

Ironside said...

Lawyer from “Tapas 1”: “The lobby surrounding the McCann is frightening” (Full story from "El Mundo", November 11, 2007)

“My client must keep secret what he can do help the search for the truth and this is not due to the law secrecy in Portugal. That is is quite revealing of the strange circumstances around this case”, says the lawyer of one of the two McCann friends that were at Tapas Bar, on the night of May 3, and decided to have a close cooperation with Police, as “El Mundo” published, last Tuesday. “He is not afraid of the McCann but the economic and political lobby that exists, around that couple, frightens any person.”

“Police was called only after the group analysed the problems they could face for having left the children alone and until now, my client had no chance to talk for himself”, the London-based lawyer said. Since September, he represents one of the two friends of the McCann that contacted police and asked for an opportunity to be requestioned, in order to correct some details and discrepancies of the statements made by the group of nine persons that were on holidays at Ocean Club. “What my client wants is to get the truth out – meaning, he is not there to accuse or to clear anyone, that's a police job. He just wants to help police to know the truth about what happened before, during and after that diner, on May 3.”

Asked to comment the denial from Clarence Mitchell, the McCann spokesman who claimed he has been in touch with all the seven McCann friends and all of them told they gave no instructions to their lawyers to contact police and be requestioned, the British lawyer said: “When you look at all the pressure that has been put up over him and others, it's natural that my client would not tell Clarence Mitchell he decided to have his own legal representation and a more close cooperation with police.”

A strong critic of the Media frenzy about Madeleine's disappearance, the lawyer of this member of Tapas group considers that the case is “much more serious” than most people thinks: “I don't want to accuse anyone, but there are people close to the McCann that is not really helping them. However, my client intention is to bring the truth out, in this sad story, no matter who gets hurt.”

The support the McCann had from the Government is another aspect the lawyer criticises: “I understand that our Government had the legal obligation to help the McCann. What I don't understand is that they received such a help that goes further and over anything that would be normal, for a case like this. But, since the the first hours, it was clear that Madeleine's case was not just a normal police case. My client had no support, at all, from the British authorities – only through the McCann couple.”

Questioned about the British Government involvement and political connections related with the case, the London-based lawyer said: “It's not my job to explain why and how politicians had intervened in this case, but I'm afraid that those interventions have been prejudicial not only to my client, but also to the search for the truth.”

Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis

Version Española - Version Française

• Posted by: IRONSIDE • Report Comment

lmcg said...

What a disgusting headline in the DE today Madeleine: Kidnapper has "stuck again". How can anybody use this family's tragedy to support their own gain? Unbelievable, I am speechless.

Ironside said...

Hello everybody.

I've been dabbling with my sources again and thought you might all like to hear the distilled information they have imparted to me - (that which I can reveal, obviously).

Firstly I think it important to say that this investigation is nowhere near closure. As many will know, charges will only arrive when the investigation is officially at an end and not before.

Right now the investigation is focusing on May 2nd 10.00pm through to around 10.00pm May 3rd - a 24hr period in which it is now considered several crimes were committed.

The shift in emphasis to May 2nd is primarily due to the significant lack of independent evidence to support Maddy being seen alive during May 3rd by anyone outside of the TAPAS 9 - and even then only Oldfield actually 'saw' her. Maddy was not present at the creche or children's club. She did not eat with the others and there is NO CCTV footage of her anywhere in the complex or PDL at large beyond the afternoon of May 2nd.

It is also deemed of interest that Gerry missed his afternoon tennis session on May 3rd due to an 'Achilles' injury. It was his unannounced absence which actually drew Oldfield to the apartment and not Gerry asking him to check on Kate. Gerry was not present at the tennis courts and Oldfield went looking for him. Gerry was elsewhere entirely. It is now believed that Oldfield did NOT see Maddy during this brief visit.

The theory is now that Maddy died around midnight May 2nd and that her body was concealed in a bag - Gerry's lost/missing/never had one hold all, sports bag no less. It is believed that this bag was stored in another apartment during some part of May 3rd before initial disposal around the mid to late afternoon of May 3rd. The scent of death was well established and the clean up completed during this time frame. The apartment's cleaner was turned away on May 3rd by Kate McCann I am told.

The forensic material examined and the results are strong in places and weak in others. None are conclusive but highly indicative and along with other evidence form a persuasive case. It is no longer considered that Maddy's body was relocated using the Renault Scenic, but that items pertaining to her and taken from her body were removed, hidden in the tyre well and dumped elsewhere.

As previously reported the PJ have the bag Gerry is so keen now to deny all knowledge of. It is a damning piece of the jigsaw, but not the only one and not the best.

CCTV footage from MW's reception proves that the TAPAS 9 were, for the most part, lying about the frequency of their checks. This is considered an attempt by ALL TAPAS 9 to stall any charges of negligence. The investigation team are also aware of the attempt within the May 3rd confusion to blur the actual time and circumstances of Maddy's disappearance.

They all did eat at Chaplin's on May 2nd and they were contacted at Chaplin's by an employee of MW's with regard to the children - specifically the McCann children. This was followed up immediately upon their return to the MW complex.

Further questioning is to take place shortly and will encompass ALL TAPAS 9 elements, plus others. It is now expected that two others will be made or allowed to request Arguido/Arguida status. These two others are seen as complicit in the aftermath of events surrounding Maddy.

Again, as far as my information allows, I can say that there is NO suggestion of pedophile involvement in any way. The DNA of a North European does not mean that this came from semen or that there is any suggestion of sexual abuse. I think we should all sigh with relief over that. There have been errors in translation and information which may have lead some down this murky pathway.

This case is not finished yet and has a way to run. The culprits will not be found in Spain, Portugal or Morocco.

The above has been gleaned and distilled over Christmas from my three friends and sources. I can elucidate on some points but not others.

Ironside said...

Hi Docmac havebrought this theory over from the mirror forum...his name is "Coldwater " he is a well respected poster....Sounds very possible...it goes along with your thoughts that cleaning up materials were in the car wheel and not madeleine...

I thought you might find this interesting...being at the stage we are in....
Look after yourself its nearly the weekend..well,almost..

Anonymous said...

Hi Viv Darling;

"While front-page stories about the McCanns sell newspapers—up to 30,000 extra copies a day—perhaps because they happen to be a handsome, prosperous couple wrecked by tragedy (“Let’s face it: if Kate were fat and spotty and aging, they wouldn’t be selling all these papers,” says Trish)"

The great Trish speaks. Where does she see stories of the private lives, thoughts and personal feelings of other doctors? If you are reading Mills and Boon Trish maybe that's where you are getting your lopsided view of Gerry and Kate from. Ordinary people wish to know about the people they admire; authors, athletes, explorers, footballers, singers and actors ect. People who they feel are not ordinary- you would be hard put to find many people interested in politicians private lives never mind two people whose only claim to the limelight is they have suffered through the alleged abduction of their daughter.

So your "wee" brother did well and became a doctor- he is not the most prominent doctor in the country- get over yourself or do you really believe he and his wife are exceptional good looking/ well dressed amongst GP's / doctors ? If so you need to get out more. Your infantile ramblings are causing trouble both sides of the continent do us all a favour and leave the hero worshiping for private ocasions.

Sorry Viv but the woman is a liability- just how many people accompanied them for this interview anyway?

Ironside said...

By Nearlyemptynest on Wed 06-Jun-07 13:14:41
Hello all!

As you have mentioned Joanne Griffin, I thought it would be useful to see what she had done and what your group had done and try to make some sort of list that combines both - If you would like me to I am halfway through it and should be able to get it done today and then you can add whatever you like to it!

Here is the general idea of what Joanne has been up to:

Hey fellow 'helpers' (don't know what else to call us... we are trying to 'help', so it makes us 'helpers')

I don't really know how to thankyou all for responding to my messages on various forums etc... just thankyou is all I can say. We are all people with something in common. We wish to help that little girl be found. We all feel the same way. Gerry McCann was right when he said that out of one evil vile act has come so much goodness.

Just a few things that have come up today.

Firstly, I have been made aware of a petition at the Downing Street website. Here is what the petition says....

I believe I speak for our nation when I say that the people of Britain want to help find Madeleine McCann & bring her safely home. Not only is she a little girl, she is a British citizen and as such deserves our every effort in finding her. I petition the Prime Minister to send EVERY available intelligence & resource to assist in the search, and use every contact, of which he has many, to get Madeleine back. Thank you, PLS FORWARD TO ALL YOUR CONTACTS.

The web address for you to sign, if you have not already done so is http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/HelpMadeleine/

You will receive a 'follow-up' email, which you have to respond to in order for your signature to be verified and included.

Secondly, myself and some others are formulating a 'HOW YOU CAN HELP' list, which we anticipate being able to email on to our contacts, and to everybody we have emailed the poster/banner to. Should you have any good ideas then please email me and let me know. I will read every single response, but probably wont reply, as my email box is jam packed with a good few hours worth of processing new emails from people wishing to register their willingness to help.

Thirdly, keep recruiting to 'the helpers'. On forums, by texts, by email, by phone, by mums at the school gate (dads as well) by the intranet at work. By flyers, by notices in the local post office window...

Finally, such has been the response to my asking for fellow 'helpers', I have to start thinking about a website. (?www.helpingtofindmadeleine.com?) I am a nurse and Health Visitor by trade, and have got ZERO experience with web design. If you know of somebody, have any contacts, or can help me directly, please email me on my personal email address joannegriffin69@hotmail.com

End of Joanne email.

I live in Leicestershire and my son was treated by the cardiac team at Glenfield and a colleague of mine was diagnosed by Gerry Mccann and his life was saved by surgery. This couple are working at saving lives I guess that's why so many of us want to help them too

Ironside said...

More mischief by the chipmonks....jo Griffin

Dylan05 said...

Hi Viv, Doc, ironside, anon & dolores (has plainwaters been around recently?),

Good to have this site as virtually nothing in the papers. (apart from more McTactics)

Thanks Ironside for the enlightening post. I mirror viv's thoughts exactly in that the thought that a paedophile may have taken her is just too horrible.... I was getting worried that perhaps the stories are true and that the PJ really don't have anything to go on but it seems that they are still very much "on the ball" with the investigation. Interesting that the period in question is from the 2nd May. If I recall correctly, the witness at the resteraunt on the 3rd ( waiter I believe) provided K&J with an alibi at saying he saw them all eat there with the children, that the kids had spaghetti and then G took M to play on the beach. Gerry then denied that he had ever been there. Maybe this was a lapse in his carefully prepared staging of an abduction. What an absolute moron!

Re todays news of the other missing child 11/2 hrs from PDL, it is totally disgusting that they have turned this into a Madeleine story. Admittedly, it would have never made British news if it weren't for the events on 3/5, which makes me think that this is yet another McNasty spin and I feel that they have just used this poor little girl in the same way that they have used M. It's all been very carefully engineered to show that: Hey look! Another child in the same area has been abducted. Now do you believe us that the same happened to Maddeleine?

I read in the DE this morning (I was in public so I had to wrap a decent paper around it!) that the spanish police have contacted the PJ to make them aware of the "striking" similarity of the new case.

Now, I may not be a detective or criminal profiler but, here's what I think: 1) If this latest child was abducted by someone who was a paedophile, the abducter was an opportunist as she was snatched from a place that would not have been observed as a regular pattern with the child and therefore the abduction was not planned.
2) IF M was abducted, the abduction does not fit this latest. As K&J have both said, "we feel that we were watched for some time..."

From my vast experience of watching CSI & NCIS, criminals always follow the same pattern!!!

Trash TV does pay off sometimes ;-)

Can't believe Rosieplops, Codswalah & Miss lost my marbles are still harping on about the McCann's "mistake" only the first and the PJ making it worse. What absolute rot! I hope they end up having to eat their shorts or at least 8 month old tapas doggie bag!

Glad there is some sense at least on this site.

DocM, Glad that you are now fighting fit and hope you find a suitable home soon for your sister-in-law was it?

I saw on HYS the other day that even Swedish mum got some stick from the pros. She had to fight her side by saying she was always fair. How does rosie's conscience let her sleep at night? I admire you all for posting on that site as I don't have the bottle!

Take care everyone & keep up the good work. It's my last link to sanity on what happened to poor little Maddeleine.

Dillie x

Dylan05 said...

PS: Have just read a comment from "allout" on HYS which is thouroughly abusive to claudia and Ironside so I have reported it:

clawdia /ironarsol
Published: Wednesday January 16,2008 by allout
you both must be the most braindead people on this site, i have just glanced through and noticed your imput regarding band wagon you pair of shrivelled up git?
nasty is not a word for you 2 vile comes more to mind

docmac said...

Hello all. I am very busy at work tonight but have read all the posts on here. Thanks for the wealth of info, really intriguing. I don't know if I'll get back on today to respond properly but my kindest regards to you all (and to Viv when she crawls out of bed)!

hope4truth said...

Evening All

How sad another little girl missing.. To try and link the two cases is very strange do people really belive there is only one sicko out there???

And no photo of her on the DX that is wrong...

I dont think this is a hoax and I hope she is found very soon safe and well...

lizzy said...

All quiet on May 2nd. Apparently that’s the day the McCanns chose to remain in their apartment. Gerry cancelled his tennis session because (he says) he had injured his Achilles heel. Although that type of injury takes weeks to mend he mentions that he had tennis lessons on the afternoon of the 3rd and on his blog he writes how it only took 19 minutes for him and Kate to reach the ‘monument’ at the top of a hill during one of their jogs. So we can deduce that his ‘injured ankle’ was not so bad after all.

So if Madeleine died in the apartment on the evening of 1st May then it stands to reason that any cleaning and covering up may have taken place that evening and/or the 2nd of May.

The speculation is that Jane Tanner and her boyfriend O’Brien were in on the ‘cover up’ … but none of the other friends knew about the fatal accident until after Kate gave the alarm on the evening of 3rd May that Madeleine was ‘gone.’

But I’m jumping the gun….wind back to the Tapas9 on the evening of 3rd May…

…to make the ‘abduction’ appear genuine, Gerry was supposed to go back to the apartment that evening to jemmy the shutters (couldn’t do it beforehand in case someone saw the shutters up, and if they did then that would blow the theory that an abductor had broken into the apartment that evening). At the Tapas Bar he tells his friends he’s going to check on the children and leaves, but Jeremy (Jez) Wilkins was out with his son who couldn’t sleep. Gerry couldn’t complete his task for fear of being seen or heard.

He returns to the Tapas Bar and perhaps mentions he bumped into Mr Wilkins in the hope that the subliminal message “I couldn’t jemmy the shutters” was picked up.

Matthew Oldfield checks on the McCann children, he’s supposed to find the shutters up and find Madeleine gone, however he doesn’t enter the room (initial reports say he merely listened at the door but is later changed). He returns to say all is well but doesn’t raise the alarm as the McCanns had expected. Kate has no choice but to do that part herself.

Unaware that Gerry hadn’t had chance to jemmy the shutters and in her panic to raise the alarm she doesn’t check them. She enters the apartment and then rushes out screaming “she’s gone!” (Some reports say Kate’s words were “they’ve taken her.” It’s possible that Kate’s words should have been “Someone’s broken in! They’ve taken her!” But as so often happens in repeatedly rehearsed scenario’s to reaching the time of action and in haste to ‘get it right’, a block of words can, inadvertently, be dropped.)

Gerry flies into action to set the scene. He phones the news channel (apparently), alerts the British Embassy(?) and finally phones the police.

Kate and Gerry are already running on their prearranged theory that Madeleine was abducted and that’s perhaps why they blurted to the Portuguese police that they were sure Madeleine had been taken rather than merely walking out of the apartment. She couldn’t anyway, because it’s initially believed the patio doors were locked. But when the police realise that the shutters hadn’t been tampered with, Gerry hastily comes up with the idea that they left the patio doors open so they could check on the children and that’s how the abductor must have entered the apartment. Police are suspicious … why are they so certain Madeleine was taken when she could have wandered out of the unlock doors to go look for them? Kate jumps into defensive mode and picks up on the idea that Cuddle Cat was Madeleine’s comfort toy and wouldn’t go anywhere without it (I’ve always felt that Cuddle Cat was Amelie’s, not Madeleine’s. Anyone seen any photos of Madeleine with Cuddle Cat?)

So what happened to Madeleine? The favoured idea is that she came across some recreational drugs and overdosed. There is nothing to substantiate that idea but it would certainly be reason to cover up an accidental death.

The worst idea I’ve heard is that they were swingers – I’m not hot on that one. Although it does make a person wonder why Team McCann were quick to jump on the idea that Madeleine had been abducted (to order?) by a paedophile ring. What on earth would make apparent distraught parents think that? Surely that would be the last thing they’d think about let alone say to the public.

The cadaver dogs can only pick up the ‘death scent’ if the body has been in place for at least two hours. That fits with Madeleine dying earlier than the ‘small window of opportunity’ on the evening of 3rd May. Madeline may have been moved to Jane Tanners and O’Brian’s apartment on 1st or 2nd May temporarily.

Because Kate had raised the alarm everything had to go ahead with the McCann’s abduction theory. No time for another get together with Jane Tanner and O’Brien to bring them up to speed with the changes that night.

Because the night of May 3rd didn’t go to plan it would explain the original inconsistencies among the Tapas9’s statements. For example: If Jane Tanner and O’Brien knew about Madeleine’s fatal accident on the evening 1strd May, she may have changed her statement from “seeing the abductor on the way to the Tapas Bar” on May 3 to seeing “the abductor after leaving the Tapas Bar to check on her children.” Why? Because she may have overheard Gerry saying he’d bumped into Jeremy Wilkins. She perhaps adjusted her statement so that she could fit this into the timeline and said she saw Gerry talking with Mr Wilkins. It also helps with the story that they were all checking on their respective children. But Gerry and Mr Wilkins didn’t see Jane Tanner (because she wasn’t there at that time) so neither mentioned her in their statements.

For the Tapas7 to involve themselves in such a cover-up it would mean that there must be a reason which would implicate the friends along with the McCanns. The only reason that seems plausible (at the moment) is the idea that Madeleine died from an overdose. If they had given Madeleine’s body to the Portuguese police, or called for an ambulance, and it was found that she died of an overdose then there may be a possibility that the McCann’s and friends would be tested for drugs. End of careers.

As the inconsistencies are so obvious and could implicate the friends of lying and perverting the course of justice, it’s easy to see why – if the reports are true – that a couple of the friends would like to change their statements. The friends are home dry, no chance of finding drugs in their bloodstreams now. But how they’re going to explain why they initially lied is another thing.

What about the blood found under a floor tile or behind the settee. Was the cause of the bleeding a medical response to breathing difficulties? Is it possible that a tracheotomy was carried out?

It’s bothered me why Kate McCann made such a fuss about the time being one hour behind on the apparent ‘last photo’ (Madeleine at the pool side with Gerry and her sibling Sean) and also the fuss she made about removing the bead from Madeleine’s hair for bath time. There must have been a reason for her insistence. Perhaps she wasn’t drawing anyone’s attention to the time but was, in fact, drawing their attention to the date (3rd May). Also she’s picked up on what looks to be a bead in Madeleine’s hair in the poolside photograph – which actually appears to be a pink elastic band. That seems to indicate that the last photo is indeed a forgery.

Where Madeleine’s body is now is anyone’s guess, but I suspect with Gerry’s apparent confident words to the reporters “find her body and prove we killed her” she may never be found.

Possibly only the McCanns, their friends (and God, if you’re a believer) knows the absolute truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann. We can only hope that the truth will come out in the end for Madeleine. "


author is bb2002 from the mirror forum hope it is okay to post such a long piece but thought you might be interested as I thought it a very good post, if too long Viv sorry....Lizzy

felicity said...

Hi All

What a lot of posts again and some really good points made:

Ironside - I agree there does seem a clear possibility Madeleine and Tanner's daughter came from the same doner. There is only a two months difference and it is weird that Tanner was reportedly at the birth of Maddie in Amsterdam. This does provide a credible reason for the closeness between the Mcs and Tanner and OB - so that they behaved in an ill advised way, to say the least, in helping the Mcs following the death of Maddie.

I note also there is no evidence or awareness of any investigations looking for Maddie in either Spain or Morocco. This again raises the spectre of money laundering and the Retardos simply putting out propaganda to defend the Mcs by making false claims e.g. know who the abductor is and will have Maddie home for Christmas et al ad nauseum! I think a strong point here is that it is Mr Smethurst, Clarence and the McCanns who are controlling this outfit - none of these people give the impression they are honest!

Lizzie - I have seen the video you refer to where Gerry visibly smirks and looks at Kate when asked his reaction to "sightings". This is equally as bad as him saying he knew that mentioning Maddie's eye defect may subject her to harm or even her captors doing something to her eye but nevertheless "it was a good marketing ploy". I honestly believe this man is so personality disordered in his avaricious greed to cash in it simply does not occur to him, how repulsive people find his behaviour and remarks or how telling they are as to his own involvement and complete lack of concern for Maddie.

Ironside: Thanks for the article in El Mundo in November confirming that one member of the Tapas had separately instructed a lawyer to contact PJ with a view to amending his statement. This confirms what Docmac told us. I notice Rosie and Co lose no opportunity to seek to deny this and ridicule these claims. We shall see in the fullness of time! It is entirely understandable that either the Paynes or the Oldfields would not wish to place themselves at risk of a custodial sentence by lying for the McCanns. I do wonder though whether it may even be O'B - because I found it very odd that not only did he not take part in the Panorama programme JT his own partner never even mentioned him. This clearly gives the impression he had expressly stated that he was not prepared to have any input to the programme - perhaps sensibly wishing to protect his own position.

LMCG: I agree it is a disgusting headline "kidnapper has struck again". There is simply no link at all between these two incidents - a\s we predicted the sickening McCann machine immediately jumped in with both feet - adding to their never ending bizarre propaganda. I think it is also disgusting that they have named and shamed so many innocent people - Murat /girlfriend/ex, the gardener, a supposed paedophile who has not even been in PDL for two years. Their conduct is repugnant and an insult to the little Spanish girl and her family. Other victims of genuine kidnappings have repulsed the McCanns in their desperate attempts to make links where there are none!

Ironside: I am also concerned about what may have happened on 2 May. We know the McCanns were called back to Maddie crying and we know that Mrs Feen states Kate was loud and out of control. It does seem possible that something terrible happened to Madeleine that night. Perhaps Gerry was furious at Maddie having the temerity to cry for two hours and get them into trouble! Nothing would surprise with that horrible man…It is good to hear the PJ have recovered the tennis bag. The fact that we have heard conflicting stories regarding what Gerry was actually doing on the afternoon of 3 May is ominous. First we heard he was having his third tennis lesson - then we are told he suddenly developed a mystery Achilles tendon injury - it did not seem to stop him for subsequently jogging and playing tennis !

Anon: I entirely agree Trish Cameron is very misguided in trying to suggest it is the McCanns good looks etc that sell newspapers. It is the fact that their beautiful little girl has just disappeared and their bizarre behaviour ever since that sells newspapers. We would be just as interested if they were fat and spotty for the same reasons. So far as Gerry being attractive is concerned - I actually think he is completely repulsive - I do not like people who smirk and snarl or find them in the least bit attractive.

Dylan - interesting post and I agree with what you say. Well done for reporting these abusive McNasties on the DE. If all of you just kept repeatedly doing that maybe the DE would finally do something about Rosie who stirs up all the trouble. I think Alroy has been banned and so has come back as Dobwalla - that Alroy style that I have been reading for months is easily recognised.

Doc - I did crawl out of bed several hours ago now - you are rather cheeky at times

As this post is getting rather long - I will sign off and have a look at the more recent posts now


Anonymous said...

Hi Viv, after catching up with some old press coverage..apparently Madeleine was born before the macs went to Amsterdam, where Gerry studied heart scanning.

The twins conceived by IVF whilst in Amsterdam.


Docmac ....send over a couple of bottles of Tequila.

felicity said...

Hiya Hope4

I suppose the linking of the abduction of Mari with the McCanns killing Madeleine and then trying to insist it was an abduction is just more of the bizarre spin we have to put up with. But it is heartless and cruel to the family of this missing child.

I too hope she will soon be found.

Lizzie - I do not mind you pasting the long post - it is very good!

Hiya Anon, I did get confused - yes the twins in Amsterdam - thanks for putting me right! Good job someone is paying attention

Luv Viv x

docmac said...

Hi anon, I'll do so. My sister is coming over on Tuesday for a week's holiday. I'll send some back with her. Olmeca is only around 5 pounds a bottle here, so I'll send a truckload, depending on customs and excise regulations of course!

Cláudia said...

I finally managed to access the blog! Hurray!
Hope you are all well.
It's been really boring tonight on DE. Just those same pathetic creatures saying that they don't condone child neglect but well, come on, they were naive, loads of people do it, bla bla bla. Disgusting. I'm sorry for their kids, really.
Viv, keep up the good job, querida amiga!

felicity said...

OLA Claudia

I am sorry you have been having trouble getting on - maybe it was Clarence LOL!

Those boring creatures on the DE do condone child neglect because they repeatedly seek to describe it as a mistake that those poor McCanns will have to live with the rest of their lives. We are expected to see Kate and Gerry as the victims here not little Maddie - those parents who made a conscious choice to dump their kids in the creche every day but could not be bothered to do so at night or trust the same nannies to care for them - no - they just left them on their own instead! They are a rotten bunch of hypocrites and know that the fact of them leaving their children alone is clearly linked to the death of little Maddie - they are a pair of child abusers.. so they tell us to shut up about it - no way! We will shut up when we see Gerry and Kate McCann locked up where they belong.

They also condone it by repeatedly insisting they were providing their own listening service which was better than the one on offer - when there was no such service on offer! Nasty minded liars and hypocrites - they are the few who want to defend the gruesome twosome! They are in good company

Lovely to hear from you darling

Love Viv xxxxxxxx

Anonymous said...

Has Rosie joined in the comments on the recent Mike Hitchens article.

dolores said...

Hello Viv & all posters,
I don't know if this has been seen by any yet.It's a report by Martin Brunt Sky News 15/1/08
Reports DNA in boot of car (video)



eureka said...

Hi Viv, If true this delay is inexplicable:
From SOS Madeleine McCann, and Joana Morais website.

McCanns: Interrogation delayed decision by the British

An internal source of the British Home Office confirmed yesterday that the letters of request from the Portuguese authorities, calling for the interrogation of several British, including friends of the couple McCann, indeed arrived, but the Secretary of State for the Interior , Jacqui Smith, had decided not to grant them an immediate response.

McCanns: Secret of Justice until September

The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remain secret justice until September 15, 2008, according to a decision by Judge Pedro Frias, in charge of the dossier. The decision was taken because the judge considered at that time should count after the adoption of the new Code of Criminal Proceedings. There is no appeal against the decision of the magistrate.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Everyone,

Well, despite keeping my posts well within the bounds of the DE's rules, I've had my account suspended this afternoon.

This was after somebody cloned me, calling themselves "Lonely Grey Cell", stealing my trusty penguin and colouring him purple (which makes him look a bit ill), and posting around 5 or 6 missives.

I reported all these rogue comments and have been amply rewarded for so doing!

I've written to the DE to ask what's going on, but as yet haven't had a reply.

Just in case anyone wonders why I'm not responding to their posts, happening to find me on here.

Oh, Rosiepops had to put down her dog today. Just so you know.

Bye for now.

lizzy said...

Hi ViV,
Just thought I would post a link found on the Mirror web site for Home secretary Jacqui Smiths web site in case anybody wanted to email her re her decision to dealy in replying to the rogatory letters from the Portguses police to reinterview the Tapas 7..http://www.jacquismithmp.co.uk/contact_me

Anon said...

From JackieL, Mirror Forum.
""This statement deserves a thread of its own - the statement came through this afternoon on the 'Sign Petition to Jacqui Smith' thread - many of us emailed her and the Home Office, demanding clarification of reports in Correio di Mahna and on Paolo Reis's thread that the Home Secretary is delaying interviewing of the Tapas 7:

[quote="MirrorIain"]Please be advised, we have been asked by the Home Office to give their response to this thread, which follows:

“It is not our usual policy to comment on individual cases, however the Home Office has not received a formal request for Mutual Legal Assistance concerning the McCann investigation. It is not appropriate to comment further.”[/quote]

I have emailed this to Correio di Mahna (I think!! via their website), but calling all Portuguese posters - Please, please publicise this response from the Home Office to the Mirror Forum to your national press!! We cannot allow the British government to try and hide any stalling on the McCann case by using the excuse of Portuguese bureaucracy!!""

Can this email be genuine?Alsabella please note.

dolores said...

Little grey cell, hi, I don't understand why your account should be suspended, surely that's not right Let me know what happens.

docmac said...

Hi anon and all

I see Jacqui Smith said in a televised interview that the decision is not hers to make. Huh?

LGC I can not fathom that decision either. That forum is really strange nowadays. I'm sure you will get back on and give them hell. I really still enjoy reading your amusing posts amongst all the other humourless stuff. All the best!

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Dolores and Viv and Lovely Rational People,

Have just been sent an email from the DE. It says they have no way of telling if an account's been cloned, and since there have been several complaints about LGC and Lonely Grey Cell (I, myself, posted 5 or 6 complaints about the cloned posts), they decided to suspend me for 24 hours.

I've written back telling them I'm very upset, and that they appear to have quite a partisan leaning towards the 'Pros'. Mark55 wrote the other day to Ratonthebeam that he kept making remarks about me being Jewish because he thought it was my "Achilles Heel". I complained to the DE that this was premeditated racist bulling, and the DE wrote back that they were 'monitoring'him.

Big deal.

I don't know whether or not I'll go back to the DE. I amended my profile on there only this morning to say how much I hated injustice! Synchronicity or what?!

Anyway, I'm seething now, so perhaps time for a G&T...

Hate the fact that the Pro Thugs have got me off the site, even for 24 hours.

Ah well. What goes around, comes around. Watch out, Pros...

Until later!


LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Docmac,

Many thanks!

I feel like I've been told off at school for something I didn't do...and I was a Good Girl, you can tell! That was a long time ago, however :)

I always enjoy your posts, too, and look forward to many more of them on here.

I'm beginning to see how partisan the DE forum is though.

Interesting thought.

Best wishes,


hope4truth said...


How bloody discusting....

I cant believe they could do this when the other poster came on I checked their profile and beside it they were on the recently added colum as well as it being their first post.

Are the DX completly thick???

I really do not belive the things that go on over on that site has the DX been bought and paid for???

I would be so damned fumming (In fact I am bloody fumming)....

Hope to speak to you later grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Hope!

Well, a G&T is a wonderful thing, I can recommend it...


I do believe it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the DE is slightly McCann-leaning. But it doesn't make sense to get rid of all the Antis, 'cos then there'd be no discussion left! (Just a load of kittens mewling all over the place, and DobyWally wouldn't have anyone to be rude to).

My suspension is for 24 hours, so I'll sleep on it and have a think about what to do next. But I'm also ....... (Insert Favourite Word Here) annoyed.

Do you know, I think they ARE thick! (When the DE comes up on Google, it says "The World's Greatest Newspaper"! Now that's even funnier than anything Clarence can come up with...)

Anyway, don't worry, Hope. I'll be around somewhere - and actually, it's probably not such a bad thing; I do need to get on with my writing (most writers have very clean bathrooms, but I'm crap at cleaning, so do the forum thing instead. But now it's back to work for LGC!)

Thanks for your 'steam', Hope!

Have a good evening.


felicity said...

Hiya all - I am now around!

Maybe I will just try to answer some comments one at a time.

Dolores - I had a look at the Martin Brunt interview but Miss Morais is now apologing on her web for thinking it was a new interview - in fact it was September. As he explains - it is likely the match to Madeleine in the boot of the car is decomposing body fluids and this is why the police became so confident that Maddie is dead and the McCanns are responsible. There was also a large amount of her hair found - too much to be from transference. Doc confirmed to me sometime ago that hair does shed at a greater rate from a corpse. It is interesting I learned last night (possibly from you - cant remember!) they had previously hired a blue jeep but nothing was found in this. This does add credence to the theory the body was stored at various locations and then finally moved in the rented car - when they thought the "coast was clear" - no pun intended!

Viv x

felicity said...

Hi Eureka

I hope that our Home Office is not causing deliberate delay. The best explanation I can think of is that the requests from the Portuguese authorities are detailed and complex. The Home Secretary would always seek high level legal advice in relation to such matters. There would be some short delay whilst this is taking place.

As we have now heard the prosecution have until at least September 2008 to continue to keep details from the McCanns and investigate them and so a short delay at this stage would not seem to be crucial. I can imagine this case is highly complex involving many different people and many different categories of offending. Prior to commencing a prosecution the Portuguese /British will have to investigate and produce evidence in relation to all of these people and the various offences committed. Therefore I can understand this is just going to take time and is far too complex to be rushed. It seems to me other issues that may be involved are the question of who arranged for all these fake sightings of Madeleine etc designed to frustrate the investigation and who is involved in fraud and who should be prosecuted. Offences spanning different jurisdictions, possibly also including Spain, only adds to the depth and complexity of the investigation - our Home Sec may well be at the bub seeking to make decisions and co- ordinate all of this.

Viv x

hope4truth said...


Well get on your keyboard and start writing and when it is raved about you can apear with Rich and Jude wearing a Rosiepops is not the forum police T shirt. Then sell your story to a rival rag!!!

I have just TOLD my husband how WRONG this is and got very vocal about it he has wandered off with a bemused look on his face LOL

I have plenty of steam grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr is about a sensible as I can be at the moment...

How is poor Opus he is so small first he is spalshed purple then he is suspended it is very sad...

I hope things dont become so desprate that you start cleaning your bathroom that would be like letting them win....

Grrrrrrr Grrrrrr grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

felicity said...

Hiya Littlegreycell

I am disturbed to hear about your account being suspended after someone deliberately cloned you. This sounds very similar to what happened to me. I think anyone would agree that genuine posts from me were well within the rules - I complained about Rosie and Crito and I got permanently banned - they got temporary bans in spite of the appalling filth they repeatedly wrote to me - much of which is still on there!

Seems to me the DE just want the McNasties on their blog! You write some brill posts and hope you will stay on here!

So Rosie had to have her dog put down today - karma!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...


One thing made me smile - when my Uni essays needed writing I used to polish the kitchen! and no I am not normally the least bit houseproud!

My response to the DE being so nasty to me was to start this blog - Felicity was such a little sweety even Mars said he loved her but not that Viv LOLOLOL - and I know this blog upsets them....every cloud has a silver lining! They dont get a right to reply do they!!

Luv Viv x

lmcg said...

Hi Viv, this is an interesting post just in on the DE site. 2345 was insistant yesterday that this whole thing is a hoax (a very sick one if it is) and it appears that she is not the only one.

in mari-luz's case, and for your information, the prime suspect in this case seem to be focused on a (tramp) who they believe is mentally deranged.
the other line of enquiry is now being seriously focused on the parents of mari-luz and their involvement with metodo3 with the view of a joint scam operation to extract funds from the public, bearing in mind that the cortez's are of gypsy origin, and poor.
the portugese police were contacted but as a curtsey to their spanish counterpart, acknowledged the fact, hence no further action was taken.
we believe that there will sprout many more incidents such as this, and no doubt the mcanns will be involved in every one of them with the hope to boost their plea for more donations.
we shall all wait and see further developments of this soap-opera.

• Posted by: ALIAS • Report Comment

I am in the process of trying to bag myself a bargain pair of ghd hair straightners on ebay, am on a strict budget, not having much luck though! So am I swapping between sites while bidding. Wish me luck!

Hope you are well. Speak later x

felicity said...


Alsabella is seriously on the ball IMO - I have never known her to be wrong. Last night she posted on here - now watch Metodo 3 find Mari...I am afraid I would not put anything at all past the scheming Gerry McScamm - he is like a man possessed....

Good luck on EBAY!

Luv Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Oh Hope, please don't worry...the further away I get from it, the more I see it has its own story about what's going on there.

I know I will be chewing my fist not to be able to respond to the cretins on that site, but I may well decide to go back after 24 hours and sweetly tell them what poor, misguided souls they are (another place for you to insert your own phrase!).

Opus is taking it quite stoically, as it happens. He was dead chuffed that somebody cloned him - he thinks that's the epitome of fame! (beware the forthcoming Opus clothing range at Topshop) - and quite enjoyed being purple, to tell the truth. "Herrings all round!", he's been shouting to all and sundry. Not quite the same as "Drinks all round", however, as many have discovered to their cost).

Oh, and don't worry about any forthcoming bathroom cleaning - I have MANY alternative diversions on my list to get out of working!

Maybe see you tomorrow (after around 5.00pm, tsk) on the DE.

Maybe it'll be a great idea if I have 'a conversion', as some others have done recently...what do you think they'd make of that??!


hope4truth said...


Glad Little Opus is ok I will be sure to purchase a Tshirt when they become available...

You are not missing anything although it must be very frustrating not to be able to reply. Lately I have started typing and then thought whats the point they just want to stir up trouble and have deleted before sending the post...

It is so unfair but then so is life and it is unfair the UK is hell bent on protecting the parents and Madeleine has no one speaking for her how can that be right???

A conversion would be very funny they hate it when you agree with them (I have a mental image of them all clicking back on hotmail deciding how to attack next)... Am I paranoid or do they all go away for a while and then come back with more ammo???

Mind you I upset Betty last night as RP had posted something which she replied to and then was told off by RP as it was addressed to me (it was addressed to McCann Bashers I think) so I said to Betty how dare she answer my posts and I did not realise that being sarcastic in writing did not come across the same... We apologised to each other for a while and all is well (I like Betty would have died if she had gone by the time I apologised)...

Maybe see you after 5 or on here happy writing...

dolores said...

Docmac, I wonder if you can tell me please (it's not a nice subject I know)I read that the death scent can last from weeks to months to years depending of course the conditions of where it is.
The know it all on the other forum,with her expertise now extended to forensic science,was very positive in telling another poster that a scent only lasts 20 days,therefore the cadaver dogs could not have pointed to it,as it was much later than this that they were introduced to the car.

I noticed last night her career has now extended to oceanography.Boy she/he must have had a red face when she was put straight.Viv did you know that the Atlantic Ocean merged with the
Pacific Ocean near Spain.LOL

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Viv,

Thanks for your kind comments!

It's very odd indeed - you and I know from experience how mystifying it is to be told you've broken the rules in some unfathomable way. I've done my very best to be sardonic but not abusive in the way some others are, but this is still not good enough, apparently.


How can Gerry/Clarence wield such enormous power?

Anyway, I want you to know, Viv, that I haven't posted much on here because 1. I felt the need to stand up to those bullies on the DE; 2. I don't have much new information to impart - I'm full of admiration for posters like Ironside and Docmac who have the research facilites that REAL newspapers would be proud of; and 3. I'm already spending half my life standing up to those thugs, and need to at least pretend I'm working some of the time!

Anyway, I'm very grateful for your lovely comments, and I feel very safe here.

Thanks for doing this, Viv.


hope4truth said...


Best revenge you could have is this site...

I am just reading through it...

Hope you are well..

LittleGreyCell said...


I read a feature in the Guardian a couple of years ago which asked celebs what being at university had taught them.

Boris Johnson repied "How to write an essay in 40 minutes"!

Perhaps he spent the rest of his time cleaning??


LittleGreyCell said...

Yes, Hope, it's a minefield sometimes!

Don't worry about Betty - she has a very good head on her shoulders.

I'm off to eat now (supper got a little delayed due to my 'punishment' indignation!).

Have a good evening, and deffo tomorrow somewhere...

Penguin thoughts, and

Night all!

X LGC :>)

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

I don’t know whether Doc is around to answer your post - but quite obviously death scent can be lingering and varies according to conditions. The British would not have brought over £800 Euro per hour dogs in August if it was going to be too late to find anything! Know it alls always turn out to be the know nothings don’t they!

I did have a good chuckle to hear that according to Rosie the Pacific has moved several thousands miles and merged itself into the Mediterranean! A friend emailed it to me - we often have a laugh about oldrosieplonker. Have you noticed she is going to spring murderers from prison in both the UK and Portugal and give their places to the police - how bizarre! I wonder what has made him/her hate the police so much and love murderers…Gerry…

Just nipping out to get some fags catch up with you all soon

LGC - You are very welcome! Always great to read you!

Luv Viv x

dolores said...

G/night LGC & Opus,he needs some 'happy feet' and he can stomp all over the chain gang tomorrow.

RP & HPY have been calling me a hypocrite every day now,I won't answer them, and I know it infuriates them all the more.

docmac said...

Hi Dolores

I am not sure of the death scent time limit, but body and bodily fluid decay continues for some months and one does not need any more than that in this case. The fact that these dogs can detect scents related to human tissue, drugs etc in quantities of 1 part in billions would suggest that what you have read may well be correct.

Have you read about the blood dog's (Keela) amazing abilities?

See http://www.southyorks.police.uk/kidzone/dogdiary/thisweek.php

To all, I read this post just now from the wise one:

17.01.08, 5:53pm

The conclusive match was from the control sample of Madeleine's DNA which was given to the FSS to help them cary out the test.

• Posted by: Rosiepops

This 'fact' has been consistently spouted by the self-appointed expert who always 'does proper research before posting, much like her Pacific Ocean' gaffe ("instead of jumping in and making a fool out of yourself, why not look it up?" is what she said to Tumshee lol).

Now can anyone help me out here? Where did this 'control sample' originate from? Do Gerry and Kate carry labelled and independently verified 'specimens' of their kids around? I don't think so. The FSS need samples from family members only to do the tests. I have a nasty feeling that a sample from 1 of the TWINS may indeed have been provided as a 'control', hence the 80% match of fluids and blood found. This would then equate to a 100% match to Maddie. Just speculating of course.

dolores said...

Viv I have never been so amused at the rubbish she spouts out with such authority, only to be proved wrong.I can't rememeber the name of the Lord..... who tried his best to get Myra Hindley out of jail, and how he defended this murderess,to no avail. Do you the he could be related to RP.......lol

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Would like your advice, some on the DE forum think a petition might be a goood idea, I thought so myself to Jacqui Smith to show the level of feeling there is regarding the case and the delay the Government are causing in not replying to the Portugese request for the Tapas 7 to be reinterviewed. I thought a large number of people signing a petition submitted to Government would show just how many people do have strong feeling about the case.
I have a lot of faith in your opinions and want to know what you think, whether you think it is a good idea or not?

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

The self-appointed expert is only expert at one thing it seems to me - Kate and Gerry McCann. Where has she got this from that the conclusive match was from the control sample? Is she seriously trying to imply the police/FSS are as thick as her? Many times it seems to me that Rosie knows more than she should and lets something slip. I think you have a very good point as to why she would mention control samples - because they have given a sample from one of the twins - hence the 88% match. This thing called Rosie just does not know when to shut up does it? How many times have we seen these slips on Gerry's blog and other things that he says - he thinks he is so clever...he can even drop in a few clues - it is like a little game to him that he just cannot believe he could lose - but there are so many psychopaths in custody, Gerry.

Great post Doc and Good Evening by the way!

Luv Viv x

dolores said...

Hi Docmac, I don't understand ,who would provide this control sample?
Surely if it was G, the PJ or FSS would be suspicous, or have I got the wrong end of the stick here.

Thanks to you and Viv on the 'scent'it was just as I thought from what I read, I needed it confirmed as sometimes the jargon can be confusing regarding these matters.

lmcg said...

Hi it's interesting that Alsabella also mentioned the possible M3 link. I missed that post of hers and like you, I respect her and her opinions, she is so on the ball and rattles a few cages which is amusing as well! Back to the abduction - so it might be possible that two abductions that the british press say could be related are not actual abductions at all?

Lmcg x

docmac said...

Dolores, that is just what I'm asking. Without a body, where would a verifiable control sample be found? It's ridiculous.

docmac said...

Hi lmcg, I have just e-mailed this to a friend. Only my opinion ;-)

I would not put it past Gerry either, but I note Met3 had been sniffing around Spain for a few days. As their contract is not to be renewed I would not put it past them to palm a few gold coins off to a poor gypsey family in order to 'prove' their competence when they 'find' her. I am sure those gypseys would be only too only be too happy to 'help' under the circumstances. If I were a betting man, I'd put money that Mari is staying with family close by (I hope so, anyway).

felicity said...

Hiya Doc/Dolores

I read that the "control sample" was a hair from Madeleine's coat back at Rothley. A couple of problems with this - hair does not always provide DNA - it has to have the follicle attached. Secondly, when the McCanns in their defence say there would have been so much of Maddie's DNA in the hire car anyway why did they need to get a sample from back home in Rothley. The sheets that she slept in would have provided a huge amount of DNA from her I would have thought - is it not all the shed skin that mites feed on - ugh - must do some vacuuming. They also mentioned sweat in her sandals. They also claimed to have moved unwashed PJ's in the hire car which again, surely would have yielded plenty of DNA. For a family that kept their apartment so spotlessly clean and tidy the police could not believe there were actually three children there - the dilatory habits sound a little odd. Generally though from other pics I have seen of their homelife they do not seem that tidy - I think the apartment had a good doing over as they were expecting the police to pay a visit a little later on!

Re the so called double abductions only 120 miles apart I just got this news item :

I am struggling with the comparisons that Claris thinks can be made - oh they are both little girls!! "Our investigators are working very closely with the Spanish police" what utter bo**oc*s! I just cannot believe the Spanish police would allow this bunch of retards to have any info at all to be passed back to the McScamms ! "Highly concered another young girl has gone missing from the region" - they are two separate countries! Did you note how the DE claimed in their story it was just an hour and half's drive - what by some speed freak in a Maserati :-) It is almost like Claris is back in favour with the DE and the bannings e.g. the excellant LGC and sickening pro McScamm spin are back with a vengeance - what did Claris do to get them back on side - some big advertising contract coming their way?
Officers have been scouring the area for the girl, and Portuguese police have also been carrying out searches on their side of the border.

The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said there were "comparisons" that could be made, but stressed it was too early to say if the two cases were linked.

He said detective agency Metodo 3 were looking into the Spanish youngster's disappearance as a priority.

He said: "Our investigators, Metodo 3 are working very closely with the Spanish police in the first instance, and with the family to establish whether there are any links or similarities."

He said Kate and Gerry McCann were aware of the case and their thoughts were with the youngster's family.

"They are highly concerned to hear that another young girl has gone missing in the region. Their thoughts and prayers are with the Cortez family."

Cláudia said...

Hello, all!
I think that what happened to lgc today on DE was disgusting. Someone clones the profile and lgc gets suspended? And they criticised Alsabella for registering all possible combinatins of her name she could thing of? She was just clever, that's all. Pathetic.

docmac said...


Lidl? Been quite active lately.

Lmcg said...

Viv/Docmac. I hope you are right Docmac; that this little girl is safe somewhere, being looked after. It does seem highly suspect to me, as soon as our attention was drawn to the possible connection alarm bells rang because as Viv says there are no similarities apart from the fact they are both girls. IF, IF, IF Madeleine was abducted it was clearly a more organised abduction than just snatching a child off the street.

lmcg x

LittleGreyCell said...


Just dropping by and saw your earlier post.

It was Lord Longford who befriended Myra Hindley.

Funny voice he had, I seem to recall.



dolores said...

Viv, I had a feeling about this MariLluz kidnapping from the moment I heard about M3 poking their nose in. The Mc's desire for money is so blatently obvious as we have seen, it would not surprise me to hear it was a scam. Please God they get caught out, as the hole they are digging is getting deeper and deeper.I am very sure also that the money showing in the fund is not all they have received, I feel there is a great deal more.They have hardly spent any money from the fund on finding Maddie There is still plenty showing.
They need to say they think she is alive,as they want to milk more money from the gullable of the world.This could be one of the biggest cons ever,will anybody investigate this fund, are the police as suspicious as we are. I wish I knew. Poor Maddie's memory to be used by these parasites like this. I am so angry.

LittleGreyCell said...


Many thanks for your indignation!

But I'll be around somewhere or another (not cleaning anyone's bathroom, however, so don't panic!)


felicity said...

Hiya Doc and Claudia

I remember what a nasty piece of work Dave Lidl is - remember when I just came back as Felicity and he seriously laid into me? I do not think our press actually like the McCanns or think they are innoncent - they like the money it is making them. It is not newspaper sale that make them rich it is advertising revenue. Given the McCanns have increased DE circulation by 30,000 per day - Lidl has a vested interest and he does not seem to me to be the kind of person that plays by the rules. Maybe he suggests to the DE what goes on and they have to listen. LGC makes some very powerful points...If the DE dont listen to him - he maybe say he will not be renewing his contract. Alternatively he may have some direct connection with Claris/the McCanns.

Claudia- Alsabella is very bright and was right to cover her tracks by seeking to prevent them cloning her as they have done to LGC. Then Rosiepips makes an issue out of it. How did she know? Because they tried to clone Alsa and came unstuck?

Viv x

dolores said...

LGC, Thanks for that, thats right Lord Longford I remember now, creepy man, gave me the shudders.
And sickening the way way he tried to get us to beleive she was a changed person,another one who turned religious.

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

I remember him as some dopey old man that didnt seem to know that pscyopaths can be very charming, conning and manipulative - she was just using him to try and get out!


docmac said...

Goodnight everyone and sleep well. I'm 2 hours ahead of all of you on here, so need some rest! See you soon x.

eureka said...

Hi Viv, DE flock of drones seemed to fly off for a collective shift handover for an hour or two earlier. One can imagine them hotmailing how to deal with the 'political delay' theory. Maudlin came back with 'the British wouldn't delay, but they might if they were unhappy with the investigation.'LOL

I'd like to see everyone boycotting them for a day or two, just don't reply. (they'll bore themselves witless).

felicity said...

Nite Nite Doc

You have been great on here again tonight so guess we better let you get to bed - esp as it is about 1.30 in SA.

Take Care meu amigo
Dorme bem
ate amanha
com amor
Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Eureka

Thanks for updating me - I have not looked at the DE at all today so it is helpful to be kept posted. The shift handovers/conferences are a regular occurence arnt they - going for a cuppa LOL. I noticed back in about Oct/Nov they all seemed to be missing on a Friday night and so I quipped about them having an extraordinary general meeting - suddenly the pack of vultures appeared and the transformation of the blog from a really pleasant discussion to outright nastiness just could not have been more pronounced - get who was getting most of it!

If everyone did boycott for a day or two it would be very interesting to see what happens. Suspect Rosiepips is so in love with reading her own posts she would continue to have a conversation with herself just for the pleasure of reading it LOLOLo

Pleased to see you have adopted Docmac terminology - well Maudlin has never been renowned for coming up with anything intelligent -even after a conference has she? I think Jacqui's real problem would be it is a very complex investigation with very serious implications..the degree of depravity and criminality sets a precedent for how doctors behave, I believe! Although UK also have Shipman in our archives and he takes some beating but at least did not kill a member of his own family!

Viv x

dolores said...

Docmac goodnight,bouna notte.
Thanks for all your great posts.


felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

Is Rosiepips still doing some ghostwriting for oldhipsters and co or is oldhipsters back to just posting about the vile McCann bashers picking on this poor family (with spelling mistakes!)She does get angry doesnt she - loved it the day she had about 20 posts removed! Going for the record - of course if that had been one of us - it would have been a banning for sure!

Love Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
This may sound stupid but I don't think of old hippy as a woman I have thought from the start it was a man writing, but she says she is a woman but her style phrases seem more like man to me, did you ever feel the same or is it me?

dolores said...

The Old Hypocrite,is not writing in her style no way,you can see it's RP. It's so laughable who are they kidding. You can see through it like glass.I am surprised no one has picked her up on it.

Dolores said...

Lizzie, I think she is G's sister.

lizzy said...

The one who has been on tv, overweight with a big mouth?
You could be right as she didn't come across as too bright and nor does old hippy.I don't know why she says she is on the fence she is such a pro its unbelievable as is the dodgy former Police inspector..what his name? He also seems a bit thick.

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzy and Dolores

I do think OldHippo is a woman and I also agree with Dolores I think she is Gerry's sister - probably Trish but possibly Philo. She gets extremely angry and abusive repeatedly telling us to shut up because of the effect on the family and there can be only one reason for that. Note she also repeatedly denies that she sides with the McCanns - why do that - she doth protest too much!

In Rosiepips case - I think she is probably one of the two elderly aunts of Kate but at times it does sound like Gerry himself - perhaps he drafts some posts for them?

dolores said...

Viv / Lizzy
Was it Joncarr, something like that he had really weird opinions for an ex detective,I never liked him either. Viv was not you who sussed him out?

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

It was me who sussed Johncarr out yes and he most certainly is not an ex senior detective with the met! The technique there was to try and persuade people with a so-called expert opinion! There were others who were on to him as well Tylersmum, and genuine police /ex police 2345 and some others I cannot remember their name.

I did recognise his picture from being in the Tamworth Herald having married his penpal foreign wife. Tamworth is not that far from Leicester.
It was a big mistake to post his picture up and it only appeared for about a week or so before he removed it again.

Luv Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Yes that was it johncar, so obviously not a policeman, he didn't even know the basics of policing, I think he was there to try to convince people of the Mccanns innocence but he was doing such a bad job. Haven't seen him on there unless he has a new identity...as for Gerry's sister yes that would fall into line, haven't seen tricia but the other one is so loud , looks like Gerry though, Philomena I think her name is.

lizzy said...

I wanted to ask you what you thought of the delaying tactics of our Goverment re the requestioning.?
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Gordon Brown wanted the questioning delayed as he may need to call an early election.
But can't remember where....if true would account for them dragging their feet with regards to agreeing to the requestioning or even replying come to that...

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

As you say he did not even have rudimentary knowledge and I did going back to the time when he says he was still working in the 80s. It was laughable to me the way I would point something out e.g. the Crown Prosecution Service being formed and taking over prosecutions in the 80s and the advent of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) and he would then disappear sometimes for several days whilst he did a bit more research on the internet to find out what I was talking about. He went on a lot about the Broadwater farm riot but everything he quoted is on the web! There was no evidence of any "insider" information or knowledge and understanding of criminal law and legal procedures that you would expect from a Detective Inspector! They do seem to have killed him off but there again he was entirely useless!

Trish Cameron is the one that went out to PDL to help with the children and also stayed quite a while at Rothley helping them when they returned until she had to go back to work - if I recall she is a nurse. I rather slyly asked Oldhippo about this and said how nice and helpful Trish seemed to be and it was a shame she had to go back as it was worrying about Kate's mental health and how she would cope without her.

Philo is a loud mouthed scammer just like Gerry - she is the one who was interviewed by Sky telling lies about the PJ offering Kate a deal. I think she even travelled to London and met ministers. Then word went around she was a little too loud and graphic and had been quietened by the family! She is a headteacher and so if she is Old hippo the bad grammar and spelling mistakes etc, I would have thought, must have been deliberate.

Viv xx

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

I am afraid I just do not accept there are any delaying tactics by our government. The Eurojust procedures are complex and time consuming. There is a procedure for everything the PJs want to do. e.g. a procedure for obtaining documents and records - they want the original diary to be used in evidence and then yet another procedure for obtaining statements. These things really do take time! Lots of European red tape to get through..

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

17.01.08, 2:11pm

For those who may have missed it:

Transcript of live report by Jane Hill for BBC News 24 made on 7th September - day the parents were interviewed and made suspects:

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull".

Furthermore "Sousa himself also told of this very fine mist of spray that was found in the apartment." This piece of information was released only once that night.

Since which, forensic results reported in DX article include blood and spinal fluid in the apartment, "scent of death" on mother's clothing, bible, car keys and child's laundered cuddle cat. Some forensic evidence reportedly scrubbed with cleaning fluid.

Further DX articles report 100% DNA match to Madeleine's hairS, 88% bodily fluid match and blood match to Madeleine in vehicle wheel well. Independent forensic scientists confirm specimens belong to no other. All reported forensics and results show Madeleine was dead when placed by person(s) in the wheel well for transportation.

Very sick and totally abhorrent to the British public. There was no abductor in Madeleine's case. Equally abhorrent is obtaining money under false pretences from cash strapped British OAPs amongst those who kindly donated. Unlike the McCanns, donors had no knowledge until Jane Hill's report (Police information) that they had been 'conned' - financially and emotionally - no abductor existed. It was an orchestrated scam designed by the parents - shown by ALL forensic reports to date via DX.

Only fools trust liars; those genuinely interested in this case and the truth of Madeleine's polite stopped trusting the McCanns months ago. In fact, I've yet to meet anyone who trusted them on day one; my wide circle of friends and acquaintances concurred their behaviour was "extremely odd and highly questionable". Intelligent people were not surprised by PJ's suspicions from the outset.
"Reading" people is, in itself, an art regardless of hard forensic evidence.

• Posted by: 2345

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Thank you, that is good to know, so do you think it will take time to get to the reinterview stage?

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Yes I agree with you, his sister Phil is quite a loud in your face type like her brother, could be the other one , but have noticed although everyone says how sweet she can be old hippy, I have noticed some really venomous comments sometimes if she is disagreed with.People don't seem to notice those, wonder why.?

LittleGreyCell said...

Morning everyone,

It's interesting about people's perceptions of posters on the forum, particularly the Pros.

Most, if not all, of them have been pretty horrible to many, certainly me (!), and yet some don't appear to notice this at all.

DadTo3 says Mandz is his favourite Pro, but personally, I can't find anything that endearing about her!

Old Hippy especially has been quite vile in her time; abusive, bitter and goading. Then suddenly she's "cool, quite cool", to quote her own description.

So I should think they probably do assume each other's personas from time to time; to try and confuse us, and maybe to 'clock on' when the 'real' person isn't available - after all, they do have to commit to so many hours, don't they? :)


docmac said...

Morning to you lgc,

I'm at work so I can't stay. I am in complete agreement with you about those Pros. The easiest one to spot has always been Dopywalroy, who has a very poor command of English and uses Capitals Inappropriately. After I mentioned this on the forum he started using no caps at all! Whenever he makes the mistake now (under whatever guise) another member of the team warns him by posting an inane comment to him using the same style. It's very amusing to watch.

Another thing I've noticed is that they target someone and don't let up until that person leaves. One will start it and then they all join in. Not only that, certain Pros are 'assigned' to target specific people. I am flattered to have 4 Pros 'assigned' to me. They invariably come out of the woodwork when I log on and say something they don't like.

I hope you are feeling less ****** off this morning and that you arrive back on that forum tonight refreshed and ready. Have a great day.

Ironside said...

18.01.08, 11:14am

This forum is free it does not belong to the mccann clan. People have the right to speak and have their opinion without verbal abuse.The Pro's seem to lack education to grasp this fact..Therefore we have the educated who are able to think further than their noses...again a broblem that the Pro's find difficult to grasp.No matter.

I have yet to see one poster who thinks that the mccanns have something to do with the disappearance of their daughter attack a pro
or abuse them in any way.

As a rule I have stated I do not read any posts from this particular group...they lack
class. However I checked out Viv's blog and saw a post to myself and Claudia.from an uneducated person.....

Let me just say I deal in my work with this type of person nearly everyday , we say they are from the bowels of the earth....Posting me such comments is like water off a ducks back....upset...No...Insulted?...No...

Inflamed absolutely not...If people like you who post on here inflamed me..when I see the abuse they have caused to animals I would be unable to do my job.....I just see a similarity...not a pretty sight.....
Docmac , LMCG, Ecolab are way above you..they are decent people with values... a quality that you will never possess....Its not your fault you were born that way a follower....Carry on enjoy yourselves, if it makes you feel better carry on insulting...the way a person swears for lack of vocabulary....But one thing you will never stop is the truth....and the mccanns if they have harmed their child , they will pay for this crime....All the insults in the world will not stop this....

I am going out now to ride a horse that was abused by a person from the bowels of the earth....but guess what with love from myself and others she is fine...healthy and strong.....she reminds me of all the good people that post....and will continue....because people like yourselves will never win.....

• Posted by: IRONSIDE • Report Comment

Hi Viv My reply on DX to the above post to calaudia and myself......More desperate and pathetic each day.....

LittleGreyCell said...

Morning (afternoon for you now) Doc,

Do you know, I hadn't posted on any forum before trying out the DE one, and it's been a real eye opener! I hadn't noticed the 'personal assignment' thing, but will watch out for it now.

Makes sense,'cos Mark, Dope and the weirdly abusive Chinadoll are usually the ones laying into me. Hmm.

I must admit to having had some fun with them all, but it's limited fun, as it's hard to take the p*ss out of someone who doesn't have the wit to see what you're doing.

Over Christmas, when Mark kept telling me I'm not funny (did they really think that would upset me?!), and I tried to 'gauge his sense of humour level', he actually told me in the end which comedians he likes! How funny was that?!

And thanks, I'm feeling a bit better this morning, though I've written again to the DE to point out certain 'inconsistencies' in their moderating accomplishments, and have asked again for a reply to my missive to them yesterday, which they are continuing, in a caring and considerate way, to ignore.

Makes you wonder, eh? The very first post I had removed suggested that Rosiepops had been mysteriously absent for a whole week, coinciding with the time Panorama would have been filming friends and family prior to the documentary going out a few days later. Whoosh! Gone in a trice!

Which leads me to think the DE are 'protecting' the Pros rather more than they should be.

The second post was removed for reproducing in a quote something one of the Thugs had written.

And they seem to have removed a post of mine yesterday, which, as far as I recall, said something about Mandz probably believing my cloned penguin was called Elvis, since she seems to believe everything else that comes out of the McCanns' mouths. Can't quite see what the offence was there. (Is Elvis alive and well at the DE?)

Partisan behaviour or what?

Ah well, we'll see if they let me back on later...maybe my little penguin will return without me? If only I could find a comfy red velvet cushion for him to sit on and persuade him to call himself TiddlyPomPomPops56...

Have a good day!


Ironside said...

Hi Little Grey Cell...I tried to tell you sometime back their agenda..seek and destroy....Now you are hurting...there not worth it.....
When you post again...do not look..or read their posts .Even when thay are addressed to you ...Ignore them..They tried this with me...I ignored them , they wanted to imflame me.....I ignored ..after two or three days they gave up, and moved on to another victim....Youknow some are duplicate posters...Mark 55..is Lazarus and Dobywally or what ever he calls himself....

Blackdaisy is reina....and I also believe DinaH....you can change your name but the personality remains the same.....They have achieved their goal...at the moment they see you as vulnerable..so will try again.....dont let them win.....Ignore ...and see how easy it is.....after a couple of times they will no longer bother you....and will leave you alone and move on to another victim.....Cheer up...your on the good guys side...have a great weekend....

Lmcg said...

Hi all, I have noticed that only two posters challenge me on my postings (and I don't post much), it's always OH and M7, I thought I was being paranoid but it does make you wonder if they all have a list of names they are responsible for challenging!

Ironside - Can you direct me to the post you were responding to please as I can't find it. I agree with you the majority of antis are good, reasoned people who are open to debate, there are a few exceptions IMO though! The majority of pros are a different matter as we all know, so we musn't give up the fight to find out the truth whatever that might be, despite the obstacles thrown our way. At least Viv has given us another mouth piece!

Lmcg x

docmac said...

Hi Ironside and lgc,

Ironside Alroy was the very first poster on May 4 and I believe he is almost all of the male Pros. Rosie and Marples are the same too but Rosie also has a licence to post using others' login details. Hope you had a good ride!

lgc, whatever you do, please no more cutesy names :-)

I see that Claris has now denied that Kate made the call to Mari's mother. After the movie was announced there was a public backlash and he moved to deny the negotiations with IMG. Seems it has happened again. What are these people on?

docmac said...

Hi lmcg,

Mine are Rosiepips, Blandz, DobywalroyBarks55times and, if I say something really close to the bone, the DE sponsor himself, DaveLidl.

Got to get back to work. See you later. Hope you are having a nice day.

lmcg said...

Docmac - Bark55times, I love it! I don't think I am seen as being too dangerous to them, but am considered anti, so I just have the underlings!

I am having a good day thanks, hope you are too.

Lmcg x

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Ironside,

Many thanks for your kind words and very sound advice!

However, I will find that very reasonable way of behaving quite difficult to follow (you won't be surprised to hear!).

I feel now that my 'mission' on that forum is to stand up to those thugs. Unlike your good self, I don't have any contacts whose interesting information I can impart to others, nor can I explain complex medical stuff like Docmac, and so I feel I don't really have anything else to contribute other than my active abhorrence of the bullying tactics and perhaps acting as a decoy when others have good information they want to be able to discuss without all the vile interruption.

I am a bit miffed, it's true - although it does tell me quite a lot about the DE! - but I do have much emotional courage. (This is in place of any physical courage, which is near zero! Just ask my penguin when I last went skating with him...)

Incidentally, I can spot many of their multiple personas, but I had always put Blackdaisies down as Rosiepops - she rambles on in the same way, and she didn't make too much of a fuss when I deliberately got her name wrong...

...oh well, whoever she is, it's all fairly fascinating in a horrible way! I studied politics at uni - actually did a course in Political Corruption, too - but I've never come across ANYTHING like this! How naive am I?!

Thanks for your concern, Ironside. It's very much appreciated.

And many thanks for all the useful information you post, too.

Wishing you likewise a fab weekend!

Best wishes,


Ironside said...

Dylan05 said...
PS: Have just read a comment from "allout" on HYS which is thouroughly abusive to claudia and Ironside so I have reported it:

clawdia /ironarsol
Published: Wednesday January 16,2008 by allout
you both must be the most braindead people on this site, i have just glanced through and noticed your imput regarding band wagon you pair of shrivelled up git?
nasty is not a word for you 2 vile comes more to mind


LMCG...This was the post....

Docmac ..Do you not think if kate had rung MariLuz's father it would have been mentioned during his six o'clock interview last evening.....
There has been no comment whatsoever with regard to this case and madeleine.....If however it is found to be a hoax...and metodo are involved they will all be thrown in prison .Including Mari Luz's parents...Gaurdia Civil
dont mess around....This is not PDL....So lets just hope this case is for real...and that mari luz will be returned soon to her parents...from what I have heard he is a young man with mental health problems...I think he was angry and did a stupid thing....and now with all the coverage in the media he is afraid to return...I do not think he would hurt her....

She thanks we had a great ride the weather is wonderful warm and sunny.....The horse is a beauty we have called her Spider because she has such gangly legs and is jet black....
The dog who lost a leg is coming along fine also....we have decided to keep her here with us ...and not rehome her.....whats one more dog...when you have so many....My best regards to you and your family...Have a great weekend....

LittleGreyCell said...

Just who is Dave Lidl?

I think I've missed the past references to him...

docmac said...


Go to the DE homepage and scroll down whilst watching the left side. See lidl? Then go to the forum, click on any poster's name then change that name in the IE address bar to davelidl (after profile). Read the posts that remain (he gets quite a few deleted as he is particularly obnoxious). Viv and I believe that he is a family member of the owner of the lidl chain of stores (or even big Dave himself) and that he drinks a lot. I also happen to think that he may be paying some of the keyboard monkeys.

Ironside said...

LMCG / Docmac.. have just seen the news ...nothing on Mari Luz...just footage of police with sniffer dogs going through rubble....and rubbish tips...each bag will be gone through with a fine tooth comb....

Guardia Civil have found the car they believe amy and her friend were in...it has a couple of scratches..nothing serious...they are more hopeful....nothing suspicious found in car ...blood etc....they believe she left of her own free will with this man....they are more hopeful.....

They have just reported that fifteen thousand children are missing in spain...when they say children they mean under the age of sixteen....they just walk out and are never seen again.....amazing ...it is as though they have disapperaed into thin air....Also yesterday ahusband stabbed to death his wife and suffocated his ll year old son....there is a woman murdered here everyday from domestic violence....Threee years ago a gaurdia civil was found not far from here....he had shot his son in the head and then killed himself...no one knows why?...His wife was traumatised...as you can imagine it was their only child.....So to think parents do not harm their children you have to be living on another planet

LMCG...Why do you not think about posting on the3Arguidos...OK its not as fast as the DX...but you can have a good debate..Look for someone who's on line and join in with them to debate....I promise you there are no insults...Just genuine people who care what happened to madeleine.....Think about it.....If you do decide to join' join under another name ....because I know they read VIV'S blog...and they may clone you....

LittleGreyCell said...


Wow! Thanks! Heavens...


Ironside said...

Little Grey Cell...Now you see the light....so now you play the game...comprender

LittleGreyCell said...



LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Viv and Docmac,

Have just been reading about what a totally unprincipled and dreadful firm Lidl actually is.

Yet another eye-opener for my penguin.

It's a German company, and details of the top management are virtually non-existent.

Can you say where your gen on Dave comes from?


LittleGreyCell said...


Opus and I have just been restored to our rightful place!

Have called up the DE on the phone and spoken to a very nice woman who didn't really know what was going on with it all, but who has now un-suspended us. And suspended the Evil Imposter (SPIT).

Wouldn't you know it, I have to be somewhere else now, but we'll be making our comeback appearance on the DE site later on this evening. (Eat your heart out, Frank Sinatra).

See you guys later, too...

X LGC and Opus

hope4truth said...

Evening ALL

Just been readiyng through your posts and am amazed although I had picked up on some of this before...

Please can someone give me the link for the 3 amigos again by browser did not save it and I cant find it (sorry)...

Not much more news today so far today all very sad when a little girl is worth less than her parents...

Opus I know LGC has gone out dont suppose you are here are you (I have choccy herings)...

Anonymous said...


hope4truth said...


Thanks so much lets see if I can use it this time... :o)

Dylan05 said...

Hi all,

I've just spent a very lazy afternoon catching up on HYS. It finishes at v early on the 18th. I've still not managed to find out how to get to the current debate on that site when there is no link from a front page headline - can anyone point me in the right direction? Pretty please?!

I did however have the pleasure of reading RPs Pacific Ocean Gaffe...Hahahahahahaha! That made my day and totally justified in my own mind the time spent reading all of the other Pro tripe! I can't believe she even had the cheek to suggest to (Betty I think) that she should consult a map to see where Morocco is! Tumshee and others also had a good laugh at her expense, I hope she feels really humiliated.

Maybe, just maybe, RPlops IS Gerry as has been proffered, and that is why he is so confident a body will not be found as if HE doesn't know where the Med Sea is then surely the PJ can't find it either?! Sorry - that was bad taste & I only mean it as a reflection on his arrogance. I truly hope nothing terrible has happened to M and that she is safe and well but I know that that is probably not the case and it's all very, very sad.

Well done LGC for being reinstated to your rightful place in the higher moral echelons of HYS. I look forward to seeing Opus and maybe a free sardine? Or is that sangria? ;-)

Docmac, I take it that the "Reds" are Liverpool? (I think I remember you mentioning the "Blues" which of course would be Everton? My husband supports liverpool. I don't know why, he claims they weren't doing so well when he first followed them so he's not a band-waggon supporter but I'm 39, he's 41 and for much of my childhood years, all of my peers were L'pool supporters because they were always winning!! All lies! I prefer rugby myself.Now that's a proper man's game!!!! Plus there's the added bonus for us ladies that sometimes, oh dear, oh dear, their shorts get tugged off..... sorry I was miles away then!

Viv, happened to notice you said you were off to buy a packet of fags the other day! It's refreshing to see someone admit to that! I've been a smoker for years and I'm fed up with the abuse I get even now I'm forced to smoke outside in the cold. I accept that it's bad etc etc but it seems to me that some people have nothing better to do than attack people for chosing to do something that they don't. Maybe it makes them feel somehow superior that they don't do that particular bad thing but I suspect it's more because they do so many bad things that it's grown into a rather large inferiority compex. Hmm..now who does that remind me of?!

Anyway, no news again today. There was a very small article in the DE and it did carry a small picture of the other missing child this time, but again, it was all bent towards the the Mcs and how they feel sympathy for them. Blah blah blah.. No little wonder we all feel so used.

Good luck to those of you who are still posting on HYS. Plops appears to be gathering her comrades and rallying them for all out war using the same tired old weapons of excuse. Chin up and remember that the pen is mightier than the sword ( and a good working knowledge of world geography lol!)

take care all

Dillie x


felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

I would not like to hazard a guess as to when the further interviews will take place. However, I do think it is likely there will be a concerted effort to speed up as much as possible the interviewing of the seven friends. I think tactically, this is what they are likely to do and then there will be another delay whilst they analyse those prior to actually interviewing K&G again.

Had drafted this earlier GP has referred my son to hosp manly problem so must go and may not be back later.

viv x

hope4truth said...


If you type in the word Madeleine or McCanns at the top of the page in the box where it says search and click search it will bring up all the storys... Then you will se a drop down box which says most relevent if you use the drop down arrow and choose most recent and search it should then bring up todays article first...

Hope this helps I was stuck when I first went on...

Dylan05 said...

Thank you Hope, I will give it a go. I really am quite stupid when it comes to computers so I'm very grateful for your help.

Viv - I sincerely hope all is ok with your son.

Love dillie x

lmcg said...

Dylan or another way is to go to the debate you have access to and then click on a very regular posters profile for example er... dare I say it - Rosiepops. It will then bring up their most recent postings and if you click the top one it usually takes you to the debate currently taking place. Hope's idea works too but sometimes for some reason the DE don't put the most recent article there (I think it's when for some reason they don't want you to find it!).

hope4truth said...

Dillie / Viv

I am really good with computers but have never been on a forum before and have found the DX 3 Arguidos and this site in the begining hard??? Dont know why just did not get it???

Hope you can find it ok....

Viv hope your son is ok...

lmcg said...

Viv - I have just read your last post properly - hope all goes ok with your son too x

docmac said...

lgc and Dillie

Am only here for a moment, taking my eldest to a late movie show.

lgc big Dave does not post much but has repeatedly ignored questions as to his links to the company and became quite irate on a number of occasions. Suspicious in my book.

Hi Dillie, Liverpool yes. Been a fan(atic) since 1973. An ardent rugby man too. Springboks of course, sorry ;-). LOL about the shorts!

Have a good evening all. I too hope Viv's son is OK.

lmcg said...

Ironside/Hope. Ironside I regulary read 3arguidos but I am like Hope and I find it really confusing. There seems to be so many threads going on all at once and I don't know which one to go to or which one is most relevant! I see your thread and read that one! I am already registered under Lmcg, should I re-register if I understand it all enough to post and why would someone want to clone me? I could understand if it was the DE forum but the 3 arguidos?

lmcg x

Dylan05 said...

Thanks Hope, you make me feel a bit better about my lack of computer skills although I suspect that you are being a little modest.

Lmgc - thanks also. I will try that too. I did just go back to DE but unlike a few hours ago, a link has appeared in breaking news so I didn't need to try.

Docmac - Springboks indeed!!!! We took our kids to Cardiff to watch a friendly Wales v Argentina this summer. It was the first international I had ever been to. The atmosphere was great, so friendly and so charged, it made my hairs stand on end! I'm going to have to save our pennies if we want to go again though as it cost us a small fortune!

Enjoy your film. So you are actually going with one of your children then? Why don't you just leave them at home? After all it is safe y'know just like renting a video in your own front room!
Seriously, have fun!

Hoping that Viv comes back with good news about her son.

Dillie x

hope4truth said...


I have just been on and went on a post from Ironside that was pages long but at the bottom there was a drop down box and you can choose if you want to see posts from 24 hours a week etc...

have not been brave enough to post yet and am to wondering if I should change my name but Ironside is still Ironside???

Who would have thought this would be ...
a.. So complicated or
b.. So full of conspiricy...

let me know how you get on :o)

hope4truth said...


I am not being modest I have never been so confused in my life...

Mind you when I work it our I feel a bit thick as it is easy when you know how LOL

Dylan05 said...

Yay LGC is back with opus on HYS!
LGC - apologies to opus for getting his fav dish wrong. Do you think he may grow to like sardines at all?!

After trawling through much of the pro rubbish, I have a view on something they keep bringing up but can't post to air it. Maybe one of you brave souls might on my behalf if the chance arises:

Time and time again, the defence against negligence comes up. One of the lines that is eternally quoted ad nauseum is that Kate herself felt safe. It was a quiet resort..etc.

Clearly this demonstrates a very one track mind which only serves to demonstrate that their only perceived danger was that of an abductor and sincde it was a quiet resort then it's perfectly fine to leave your children.

If it were me, the very last danger I would consider would be an abduction. There is a swimming pool on the complex. Children can drown in a few inches of water.

Electrical appliances - burns, electrocution, fires.

Stairs, steps, sofas - falls.

Cleaning chemicals - toxic.

Plastic bags - suffocation.

The list is endless and it would only take a few seconds for an accident to occur. I'm afraid that even if there were regular checks, half hourly just doesn't cover all of the windows. To suggest that they felt it safe because it was a friendly resort implies an ignorance beyond their academic standing and beyond the average joe's to boot.

Very early on, I'm sure that Gerry saud that he had left the door unlocked in case of a fire. It may have been the first day we learnt of the news. My husband is a firefighter. He would be able to tell anyone that in a fire, it is smokey, the smoke kills before the burns. It is dark and it is confusing and even families who have laid the very best escape plans, perish in the confusion.
So, well done gerry for considering one of the more likely dangers, but 0/10 for thinking that leaving a door open would facilitate a safe escape for your children.

I don't mind if you want to copy and paste but cos I'm too scared to post, it would be great if one of you wishes to post on my behalf.

Thanks all, need to join my husband now as he's feeling all left out!


Anonymous said...


I'm glad you are back on the DE. I made a comment here but it was not published. So I will try again.

Viv, you are blessed with posters like Docmac, Ironside, Alsabella,Claudia,Lizzy,LMCG,and of course many others.

Keep posting here but also on the DE. Because many foreigners depend on the information you supply us.

Ironside and Docmad., toi, toi,toi, we say in Dutch.

Ironside. I read the 3 arguidos also everyday. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Hallo everyone,

I don't want to be an anonymous person, but I just can't my name appear after my post.

Viv, please help me.


lmcg said...

Hello all again

Hope I am going to go and have a look next will let you know how I get on. As I said I do read there but can't get the order sorted, if that makes sense :)

Dillie - no need to be scared of that lot! I'm not going over there mucg tonight but if I see an opportunity will voice your thoughts. There is however a persistant anti who keeps bringing this issue up to the pros (I can't remember who it is maybe someone else can. Betty?) but it's water of a ducks back to most of them!

Anon - hoi! My husband is dutch and has just explained, badly, the toi, toi, toi thing :)

lmcg x

lmcg said...

Hello Atardi, click the button above nickname and then put your name in the box, then publish comment, this should work. Good luck x

Atardi said...


I will try.

Thank you very much.


atardi said...


Thank you again very much. Love you.


LittleGreyCell said...


Dillie, Atardi, and All who have been so supportive to myself and Opus...

...Thank you! We're now fully reinstated on the DE site.

After my phone conversation with the DE this afternoon, I genuinely feel that nothing untoward was going on, that it was all a bit of a mystery to them and that we've been welcomed back with open arms.

In the end, it was a black and white situation:- penguins are black and white, and should never be purple. Unless they're something high up in the Catholic Church. And who's to say they're not?

I will continue to post on both sites for as long as they'll have me, and thank everyone once again for their lovely comments and support.

P.S. Sardines? SARDINES??? You'll be telling Opus they're some sort of fish next.

P.P.S. Since our little Iceland adventure, Opus' palette has 'matured' somewhat...herring thermador, herrings benedict and lightly seared herring on a bed of rocket with a raspberry jus are what's cooking in our kitchen at the moment. And I thought Iceland only did squid pancakes and deep-fried profiteroles...

hope4truth said...


Glad Opus is black and white once again look forward to seeing him....

Ironside said...

LMCG...No thats fine if you are registered..no problem..I know in the beginning it looks complicated...because you are used to the DX....If you are still confused un

der your name you will see PM this is so you can send a private message to another poster or to one of the moderators....If you are confused they will reply to you and guide you....

The first page is where you find the most recent topics...press this topic and go inside to discuss you can see when someone is on line and you can then have a discussion with that poster if you choose.....Good luck...come back to me if you still have problems....

LittleGreyCell said...


Hope the movie was good! My son is desperate for a career in film as a writer/director. Everything that comes out of his mouth is either a quote from a film, or concerns a film plot...

Have you read the Wikipedia account of the Lidl company? If you take a look, be sure to click on the (many ) revealing links at the bottom of the page.

Very disturbing organisation indeed.



LittleGreyCell said...


Have missed it - what's up with your son?

LittleGreyCell said...



Problem is, I couldn't afford a colour penguin...



lmcg said...

Thanks Ironside I am going to see a pantomime with my little ones tommorrow but I will try posting using your advice on Sunday, I certainly like reading the 3 arguidos site.

Atardi - Graad gedaan! At least I won't get banned from here for using a foreign language (Well I hope not!).

LCG - I loved your comeback message over on the DE. Excellent!

Lmcg x

hope4truth said...


Well as long as you have a black and white licence you will be fine when the Pingu Police come round whith their detector vans....

You have me reading about Lidl now am I missing something (again) I have never seen a post from Davidlidl ????

Ironside said...

Dylan 05...I have posted your great comments...but I have to apologise I did not read the last line about you being scared and that went also...No matter Dillie what are you scared of? Voicing your opinion.....You go ahead and post...You scroll past these bully boy trolls....they do not exist...they just want to use up the forum with their rubbish.....they cant hurt or touch...just dont answer them and focus on the person you wish to post ......when they realise they cant get any where with you they soon ..give up..and move on.....The forum needs people like you to speak for madeleine...If we dont speak for her who will? The trolls have another agenda ...gerry and kate Mccann where as our agenda ...is the truth and thats all that matters stay focused Dillie....nothing else matters....Once again sorry I posted the last line.....

Ironside said...

LMCG / Hope...Have left you a message on the 3arguidos....It is packed with information and links
Posted under DX Ironside.....Am going to bed now ..have an early start tomorrow.....Remember we are all one voice for madeleine.....and stay focused nothing else matters....chat to you tomorrow here and the 3 arguidos....God Bless

hope4truth said...


I will be brave tomorrow and have a go at posting thanks for your help...

docmac said...


I will most certainly read about Lidl. I had no idea they were disreputable in any way. Why has the DE taken them on as a major advertiser then?

My sister worked in the movie industry for many years. She was a set designer and worked mainly in Ireland during the golden period in the mid-80s to around 2000 when there were so many movies made there. She eventually stopped due to stress but still lives in Dalkey outside Dublin with her husband and dog (no penguins, I'm afraid). By the way prior to that she was engaged to one of the Guildford 4!! When the compensation case was almost completed she scarpered. I never found out why. Good luck to your lad.

The film was quite good, actually. "American Gangster" with Denzel W. and Russell Crowe. Worth a watch.

We are all pooped and are off to bed. I'll just have a stiff beer lol before doing so and read the news for a half hour or so. Sleep well all.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Thanks for your reply, am sorry to hear your son has been referred to hsopital hope its nothing serious and that he is back home with you soon. Or was it an outpatients appt>?
Anyway try not to worry Viv although we laways do with our kids no matter how old they are.
My youmgest is 16 now and my eldest 24, but they are still a worry....

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello everyone,

Nearly off to bed, but awaiting son who's been doing school theatre stuff. (ZZZzzzzzzzzz)

LMCG: Ta for your kind comment about the DE! Actually, that was Opus' line... hope it made a few people worried :)

Hope: Dave Lidl is a Very Abusive Poster - see postings by Docmac above...

Docmac: Good heavens! The Guildford 4 were somewhat before my time here, but what an intrigue. They've knocked the pub down now - I believe it's a furniture showroom these days.

I don't like Guildford much. Circumstances require me to be here for the next few years, but after that it's freedom! (Probably not Iceland, though. Sorry Opus).

I used to work with set designers when I worked in theatre. It's a very underrated discipline! They can only do their job well with great understanding of the script/screenplay, and are wonderful people to talk with about the project (unlike many actors, who could often do with an extra little grey cell or two...)

Do read up about Lidl. They're like something out of Dickensian England. Completely appalling.

Vera Duckworth's dead. What can I say. Have to go and some to terms with it now.

But in the meantime, happy Friday evening, all!

See you tomorrow.


P.S. Viv - still can't find the post about your son - do hope he'll be fine.

felicity said...

Hiya all

my son has a lump in his left lower region and swollen. They think there is an infection so antibiots and he has to go for a scan on Monday morning. At first they were going to keep him in but then more senior came and had a look and so have brought him home. Will obviously know a little more on Mon. This is the "little" one that still lives with me - he is 28!

Some interesting comments above - will now have a read and chill a bit and then post some answers - thanks for your concern.

Luv to you all
Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...


Wishing your son well. :)


lmcg said...

Pleased you and your son are back home Viv. Your "little one" is 3 years younger than me! Hope everything gets sorted for him x

hope4truth said...


Has he been posting long or is he on in the day when I am not???

Will have a look back and see...

Poor Jack how will he cope without V ? Even my Husband thought it was very sad and he left the room when I put it on and watched from the door way (a secret Corrie addict me thinks)...

Bye for now...

hope4truth said...


How worrying I hope everything is ok xxx

lmcg said...

Hope and LGC you are terrible. I was going to watch the omnibus!

felicity said...

Thanks LGC and glad to see you are back on the DE!

Atardi - welcome to the forum and glad fellow posters helped you out - they are a load of lovelies!

Just been reading a piece in the Guardian about Lidl a store that originates in Germany and employs few staff to save costs similar to Aldi - so there is a computer on the till counting how many items they scan through in a minute and hidden cameras to spy on staff. Wages dont get paid and there is no head office number to ring - staff are expected to work back to back 12 hour shifts over christmas in blatant breach of European legislation to protect workers the Working Time Regulations. They sound like the employers from hell!


I noticed about a month back Rosiepops referred to Lidl supermarkets in her post as though they are a household name. I had never heard of them before and wondered why she did not say something more obvious like Tesco or Sainsburys - perhaps there is a connection here. Also she was always present and joined in when Davelidl came bursting in being extremely offensive - many of his posts were so bad they did actually get removed. I think there is a connection here and a possible explanation as to why the DE is so unreasonably tolerant of such offensive people - clearly Rosie Crito Old Hips etc should have been banned several times over by now - but still they are allowed to persist!


I am going to carry on doing a bit of reading about lidl!

Viv x

felicity said...



I have got one older as well then -one is 34 in March and the other one is 32!

Does anyone have some good ideas for a new post from me - this one is becoming an epic! Maybe I will just nick a story from somewhere...off hunting...but hey any preferences as to what is currently upsetting you - let me know!

Luv Viv x

hope4truth said...


Sorry mate it is still worth watching but have a box of tissues handy....

hope4truth said...


I have missed Davidlidl will have a look back...

I like this post I know whre you all are LOL

lmcg said...

Hope you are forgiven! Tissues at the ready, please don't tell me she dies!

Viv this is the only "new" news I have been able to find tonight. I don't know if it will be useful to you or not. Whatever, you can celebrate 150 postings on one thread! That's not bad Viv!


lmcg x

hope4truth said...

Good night all

I will try and find you tomorrow...

Lncg no death she wins the lottery and moves in with George Clooney LOL

Night all

lmcg said...

That has REALLY ruined it for me now Hope. I thought it was my hero Christian Slater! Good night :)x

felicity said...

Hang on a mo - are you lot crying over Coronation Street - if that Vera Duckworth cops off with George Clooney she will have me to deal with - he is MINE ALL MINE - no one else can have him!

Viv :-)

felicity said...

On a more serious note - I am having a read of gazeta posts and thanks LMCG

Yes we must celebrate this massive thread! What a great debate - and no nasties!

Oh by the way Dillie that was a great post that you got Ironside to put on DE - any feedback off that - have not had chance to have a look today.

Viv xxxxxx

lmcg said...

Yes congratulations Viv, it has taken some time but your blog has really picked up now. I am really proud of you and all your posters. Keep fighting for justice for that poor little girl and all the other abused/neglected children out there.

Love Lmcg x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Good news that your son is back home with you, hope his condition is soon diagnosed and treated.
My daughter had a painful lump at the base of her spine a few years ago , turned out to be an abscsess which she had removed and is now fine. Keep us posted as to how he is...

Dylan05 said...

Ironside - not to worry. It was an easy mistake to make. With any luck, maybe it will make the pros realise how nasty they can be. However, I fear it will make them feel smug!

In any case, they don't know me, haven't met me, so if there's abuse in return for my thoughts, I won't lose any sleep over it!!
Thank you for carrying my torch. x

Viv, glad your son is back home with you tonight. Hope all goes well Monday. It's amazing what antibiotics can do. I'm glad that we live in the age that we do in some respects.

Sleep well all,

Dillie x

felicity said...

Thanks so much LMCG

It probably does not hurt sometimes to just remember what this is all about. Sweet little Maddie who did not get chance to even be 4, but her parents were there laughing on the beach that day.

Getting justice for little Maddie will be a major breakthrough in reminding all parents that children have rights - they are not just another piece of property that you can be careless and unconcerned about.

If parents cannot act in a loving and caring way towards their children then the law will step in and protect them and punish guilty parents.

It is a shame that some parents do need reminding about the most basic things such as not to leave them unattended. It has to do with the sort of people we are I suppose. I think the close involvement with Portugal has a major positive here. Child abuse and neglect is not so much of a problem there because there are cultural differences in the attitudes towards children. Children are very much respected members of the family who dine with the family - there is simply no question of them having separate meals to the adults and then being dumped in bed as the McCanns seemed to think was the right way to behave. The McCanns and other parents like them can learn so much from Portuguese culture about how to love and respect their children - keeping them safe from harm and raising them up into happy well adjusted adults who will also treat their children the same way.

Viv x


Viv x

Dylan05 said...

Oops, last post before I go to bedfordshire, I promise-

Opus, you have gone up in my estimation. What a discerning young penguin you are! Maybe you might be free one night to cook me and my family herring dauphinoise? I'll supply the drink, would a pilchard smoothie suffice?

dillie x

lmcg said...

Good night Viv, will respond properly to you tommorrow evening or on Sunday. We are all going to the pantomime tom so it all depends on how harrassed I feel tom night!

Goodnight xxx

lmcg said...

Just one last thing - they are after poor Betty now, have you noticed? Lizzy is trying to help xxx

felicity said...

Nite nite all

Hmmm now Opus may love a pilchard smoothie - just so long as we dont have to join him! He's a lovely guy those isnt he - just like my beautiful parrot Nanday. I will have to post a pic of him so you can all go ahhhhhhh.

I am saddened to hear they even start on Betty she is a lovely inoffensive person - how threatened they must feel! I will go and have a look.

Luv Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Morning All!

Should I be here or somewhere else? Arrgghhh!!!!

Anyway, very interesting stuff about Dave Lidl. Why would he be allowed to continue to contribute with so many posts deleted for being abusive?

Also interesting is the Rosiepops connection. She always says she doesn't respond to abusive posters, but thinking about it, she's never written that she's not actually friends with them!

And why would Dave call himself Lidl, anyway? (Shouldn't he be MrFluffyBunnyChops55?). Gosh, the layers on this are intruiging.

I can well believe that he IS connected to the Lidl group, since they appear to conduct business in the image of what comes out of his mouth. Ugh.

Well, think I'll see what's happening on the DE for a bit.

Back in a while.

Oh, herring smoothies, now you're talking. Could have done with a couple last night watching Corrers...thought it was a bit of a damp squib, Vera's exit, although I thought Jack's performance was, as usual, compelling. I was crying not at V's demise, but at his reaction. Sob.

OK, off to bite some ankles. :)