19 Jan 2008

Alsabella - I beg to differ!

Xenophobia - means a fear of foreigners - this is simply not the correct term for the sort of insults hurled at 'stupid Portuguese' or 'useless Portuguese police" etc by British Pro-McCann suppporters on the DE. It was often used - but quite incorrectly - these people were not expressing fear! They were insulting specifically because they are Portuguese clearly implying that British Police are better because they are British or Portuguese people are stupid purely because they are Portuguese. They were expressing a judgmental and superior attitude that everything British is superior. This is racism pure and simple which, is, put at its simplest discrimination based upon race. Portuguese and British people are two separate races - it is not, as you suggest, that we are the same because we are "caucasian" and so race is not an issue - race is the very issue these posters are referring to. Highlighting a difference in skin colour is but one example of racist behaviour - it certainly does not encompass racism per se as you suggest. Hitler was a racist:

Racism or racialism is a form of discrimination based on race, especially the belief that one race is superior to another. Racism may be expressed individually and consciously, through explicit thoughts, feelings, or acts, or socially and unconsciously, through institutions that promote inequality between races.
In the 19th century many legitimized racist beliefs and practices through scientific theories about biological differences among races. Today, most scientists have rejected the biological basis of race or the validity of "race" as a scientific concept. Racism, then, becomes discrimination based on alleged race. Racists themselves usually do believe that humans are divided into different races.
There are two main definitions of racism today. One of them states that racism is dicrimination based on alleged race, the other - newer - one states that racism has started to include also discrimination based on religion or culture.

Types of racism There are many forms of racism; two infamous historic examples are South-African apartheid and the Anti-Semitism of Hitler's Germany. Racism could be divided in three major subcategories: individual racism, structural racism and ideological racism.

Viv x


I disagree. People do not seem to know the difference. Every time there is a "spout" between Portuguese and British, for example, many use the word racism. It makes no sense to say this was racist, or I am not racist in this situation.It may be surprising to some, but the Portuguese are also Caucasian. Therefore, the question of race does not put itself. Any fears or prejudices would be based on xenophobia and not racism.It should not be relevant towards this case, jakirla, but it sometimes is, as this forum has brought out the best and worse in people. And yes, we have seen examples of xenophobia, and even of racism posted on this forum.I thank Nanda for explaining the difference. If we are on here debating so long, we may as well learn a few things while we are at it.
• Posted by: alsabelIa


felicity said...

NOW THIS IS RACISM! 'Glasgow' and 'German' - stereotypical adverse views of people based upon their race! I am sure there are some very nice people from both Glasgow and Germany - but not according to Rothaymere!

Viv x


You are a new one on me. Never in my travels have I met an Austrian like you. Now if you follow the suit of a resident of Glasgow and think ill manners are the thing, I would advise you to get a better mentor - and above all change your translator.

Lol! are illusions being destroyed here! The good mannered Austrians no less. The Germans wouldn 't stoop so low.

• Posted by: Rothaymere

josiepublic said...

Darling Viv

I agree some things look awful in print. I wonder if Rothaymere realizes how it looks? I hope not.
Some scary ideas are expressed in forums- racism is abhorrent- all peoples and all societies contain both good and bad that people feel the need to point out differences which sometimes are only cultural is sad very sad. If Mandz says one more time that the PJ all drink and smoke I will scream- so what if she believes all our policeman are non-smoking/drinking? She looks more stupid every time she posts. How is that possible when she can still find her way to her PC?

ratonthebeam said...

Umm, wasn't Hitler Austrian?

ratonthebeam said...

Ryan Parry is a journalist (for want of a better word) who writes for both the Mirror and the Record. Don't read either unless you like trashy saccharine pulp fiction. I thought you might be interested in this Viv, I think it might be just a hack who recycles Ludicrous' press releases. British journalism at its' finest.



He's obviously found an atlas somewhere between Thursday and today, because now at least he's managed to get the country right. His TomTom satnav still needs adjusting though - either that or his speedometer (Huelva just 90 minutes away from PDL?)

He must get different TV channels from us as well - "[Kate] could not give interviews and sobbed uncontrollably on Spanish TV."

Sorry Ryan you really should have stuck to Mills & Boon!!! But it's scary just how far Clarence's influence stretches.

felicity said...

Hiya Jose and Rat

I think people who hold racist views do express them quite naturally without realising how appalling they may sound to others. How many times have we seen Rosie and Mandz in particular do this and then argue they are not racist! When the words are in print it makes it even worse. According to Roth all Austrian people are wonderful..as Rat says well what about Hitler? It is very unfortunate to comment like this on different races on a forum that attracts international interest and bound to cause offence. Gerry and his family are from Glasgow and so this comment was particularly inflammatory and so I do wonder whether it was by accident or design. Whilst we may say a lot to criticise the McCanns we are clearly not saying it has anything to do with where they originate from!

Humans are individuals..and child abuse is multi-cultural. Although culture does have an impact as to its prevalence there will always be extreme examples of bad parents regardless of ethnic origins.

I hope the good aspects of other cultures e.g. the holistic caring family where all members young and old are treated with great respect and treated inclusively will be emphasised as a product of the Maddie case to improve parental attitudes to childcare in the UK.

There does seem to be a middle class culture of children just being some necessary accessory to their life - this just has to change!

I was amazed by the way in which the Mark Warner complex seems to cater so completely for this selfish, uncaring breed of parents whose children will grow up to be sad, unloving individuals with many problems due to such a profound lack of love from their parents. Perhaps though it is unfair to say that just because parents attend such a holiday they abuse it and completely neglect their children. We heard from Jez Wilkins partner this is not necessarily the case - a creche can be used for odd occasions to allow parents a game of tennis for a few hours without feeling unkind to their children. It is a question of degree.

I was quite horrified really that even after losing Madeleine the McCann mentality was that normal routine meant taking the twins to the creche all day and every day until Mark Warner had to explain to them this was just not appropriate or fair on other holidaymakers. It was obscene the way they just wanted to carry on in their holiday mode - dumping so they could jog and play tennis like nothing had happened. Even more obscene and horrible to go on a "European publicity tour" leaving Sean and Amelie - this really convinced me just how abnormal these two are! How ruthless they were in their determination to put self-interest and concealing their behaviour way above the welfare of their remaining two children. As though the trauma of losing Maddie was not enough - they go to. This behaviour from two educated people - surely even if they are so lacking in empathy must know something of child psychology and the long-term harm this sort of parting and trauma could cause them.

I have read the piece in the Mirror the emotive language used seeking to align Kate with Mari's mum is repugnant:

"Could the maniac who abducted her four-year-old daughter have struck again?

That terrifying prospect has loomed..."

I note the Mirror were not the only culprits to say "just a 90 minute drive " The Daily Express made this absurd claim concerning the drive of 120 miles from PDL in Portugal to Huelva in Spain - causing me to quip
what by some speed freak in a Maserati!

Just how much of this guff to the public really swallow!

Luv Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv found this interesting post by Mike Griffin. Thought you might be interested Friday, December 28, 2007
The McCanns: New Year Message to the McCanns
Over the Christmas period we once more had to endure your continuous whining and whinging.

You forget that if it were not for you and the Tapas Seven, none of this would have happened. No kidnapper or paedophile. It was you who left your children alone in circumstances no decent parent would have even considered. Haven't you tried to fool the public long enough? You and your mates are responsible for Madeleine's fate. While everyone else is being methodically eliminated from the enquiry - guess whose names remain.

The lies you and Team McCann continue to spin are no longer taken seriously and Justice will soon come your way. You were delighted when fame came your way courtesy of your protectors, but that has been overshadowed by a notoriety that will stay with you the rest of your life.

For nearly eight long, frustrating, nauseating months, you and your Guardians have intruded upon the lives of ordinary, decent people. Children emotionally blackmailed and frightened in cinemas; hard-working farmers and their families insulted and their privacy invaded. Children at a school Madeleine never attended, reminded of her absence - the control of information taken out of the hands of responsible parents. Innocent tourists questioned and phone records of locals whose hospitality you abused, investigated by police. A priest who trusted you, left emotionally shattered, feeling deceived and betrayed.

This year has been the year of "It's all about us". Come 2008, it will be, "It's all about Justice".

May it come soon and with a heart as empty of compassion as yours have been since the night Madeleine trusted you with her life - and lost.

Posted by Mike Hitchen at 12/28/2007 02:11:00 PM

felicity said...

Thanks very much for that Lizzie

Mr Hitchen certainly has a way with word and expresses so well those sentiments that we feel.

I, for one hope I never have to endure another single televised appearance from them - it really is so sickening but nevertheless compulsive viewing. I think there is a morbid fascination with just how odd this couple are and how they seem to feel a publicity campaign can win the hearts and minds of the public. The sooner they realise that it is Madeleine and the wish for justice that has won our hearts and minds the better. They must face justice for their appalling behaviour as so called parents.

Viv x

lizzy said...

Well said, I think it is paramount that they face justice for what they did. I only hope that they do, but the PJ are working well and have not given up. I believe they will do their utmost to get justice for Madeleine and will succeed.

lizzy said...

I meant to ask is your son any better? I know the anitibiotics take a few days to work but hope he is feeling a bit better in himself.

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

Thanks! There seems to be some talk of a press conference at 11 pm by Claris. I see in the News of the World they are talking about releasing a story they now have another FBI artist impression of the beast that was stalking around the McCann apartment.....er apparently - if that is what the press conference is for OH YAWN - not more rubbish eight months later - sheer desperation has obviously set in - the PJ have them!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya again Lizzie

sorry missed your 2nd post. My son is starting to feel a lot better already - he slept a lot today till his nan arrived at 4 pm! but not long ago made it round to the shop to get us a nice big mars bar each!

The pain killers and antibiots seem to be kicking in well. We will get a call Mon am for him to go for a scan but think from Doc friend this is just routine check.

Luv Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Glad ot hear your son is so much better and indulging in mars bars, love them myself but need to lose weight...lol
Yes this photofit is crazy looks like George Harrison with horse teeth...thing is Jt said on Panorama she was unable to see his face, now she has confirmed this is him.Gets worse, they are obviously getting desperate as the PJ visit nears.

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzy

It is notable that Jane Tanner has been the only one to publically support the McCanns. Not one of the rest have been so foolish, not even her partner OB - although given his apparent degree of involvement he is clearly wise to keep quiet! It is interesting to try and consider why she has done this. I am sure I have read on here (probably Ironside, bless him) that Jane was present at the birth of Madeleine but not Gerry. This tells us two things - Kate and Jane must be very close. There is obviously a query as to whether Maddie is perhaps a half sister of Jane's daughter born a few months earlier. The other thing that is significant is that this was Kate and Gerry's first baby but he was not present at the birth. This kind of callous behaviour seems to fit with his personality style and may also go some way to further explain how little he cares about Madeleine, even if she is his biological child.

I thought Jane Tanner's presentation of Panorama was very odd - she certainly did not seem in the least convincing but also seemed like she may have been on drugs - perhaps anti-depressants or tranquillisers. Learning more of her role in this matter will be very interesting. I was watching a video of Justice McGuiness earlier on vehemently defending Kate and saying what a sweet gentle mother she is and there is no way she could be involved in the death of Maddie - she did not mention Gerry at all. Interesting..Kate's state of mind just before a\t the time and afterwards does seem to be very important to the PJ case - they have a photocopy of her diary but want the original - this clearly demonstrates they intend to take Kate and Gerry to court - the photocopied pages would not be admissible. I just query again their interest - is it really because they believe Kate killed Maddie or because it shows how distraught she was and that she was hiding so much. I recall one of the things that was leaked was what an inconsiderate husband Gerry was leaving her to cope with the children - it all points in one direction really for me but I could be wrong. After all it is strange the way Mrs Fenn says that Maddie was repeatedly crying Daddy not Mommy. If it was Kate I believe he contributed a great deal by the way he treats her. The bruises on Kate are real enough but it is possible that he was angered at what she had done or was trying to stop her - rather than the other way around as I have suggested. I think we will have some time to find out the exact truth of what happened but certainly dont expect to hear any of it in the morning!

Nite Nite
Viv x

Viv x

Viv x

Anonymous said...