9 Jan 2008


Suggests Claris - You just dont know what to expect next really do you?
Gerry gets his ideas from the most bizarre sources ..not just Americans their are a few role models here too!

Never mind accountability or the taxman - just like Hamilton - this is what they want!

Can this man really be on their side? Has someone seriously lost the plot? Does Claris just do what Gez demands regardless of quite how dreadful it might sound? I note it was him that thought the idea of McCanns the big cash making movie was a good idea and he is discussing it with those board members who have not resigned in protest tonight! Is anyone able to penetrate either Gez or Claris's thick skulls and give them some advice like the public really do not like all this cashing in on the death of your daughter - in fact about 95% of Daily Mail readers are absolutely disgusted - you know people who would traditionally be supportive towards (normal) middle class people. To say my gabber was now completely flasted would be something of an understatement...

Here is how it is getting reported on the DE...I need an early night but if anyone could manage to copy and paste some replies from er popsicle and Co I look forward to er seeing this and your own more reasonable thoughts in the morning!

Luv Vivx

09.01.08, 8:18pm

That is what Mr Mitchell has just said.

I kid you not. He has just been on the radio and encouraged people to bypass the relative
accountability of the fund and just send cash to Kate and Gerry in an envelope like "people all
round the world are doing"

I am flabbergasted. Have just read this and think CM must have gone mad with all the
pressure, can you believe he can think this is acceptable to the majority of people?

• Posted by: lizzyw1

09.01.08, 8:32pm

"you can put your money in an envelope and send it direct to kate and gerry in Rothley"

quoted from an interview on the Jon Gaunt show with clary on Talk Sport Radio this morning

• Posted by: lioned


Anonymous said...

do these people have no shame, begging for money like that, Film deals, trademarking their daughter...sick!

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Just when you think things can't get any worse, Clarence pops up with a beauty, how stupid is he?
I can't believe it, put money in an envelope and send money to Kate and Gerry,he should never work again but sadly will probably be back working for the Government again when justice has hopefully been done and his clients charged.

Anonymous said...

I know the Hamiltons were accused of accepting cash in brown envelopes, but ironically they were acquitted from their fake sexual assault case by mobile phone tracking. wonder if the McCanns will have the same fate? ;)

ratonthebeam said...

I hope the Inland Revenue are wise to this one, as cash donated in envelopes is Schedule D Taxable Income and Gerry is already in the 40% bracket!

Ironside said...

Hi,Docmac...Thanks received your message..loud and clear..I read that Fox News said gerry liked to garden in PDL..that he had a spade
that has gone missing also something about a map with a red cross.....
Have you heard this...
So it would seem madeleine was moved in gerry's sports bag and left in the wardrobe of O'Brian...
This is where Cadaver scent was picked up....Antena 3 reported that there is someone from JP in
England watching on of the Tapas....who I do not know..they did say it was not gerry....must
be O'Brian.....
Later while everyone is at tapas
O'Brian goes with bag and buries
madeleine in the sand....the deeper
you dig the cooler the temperature.....Is that just about it...did they throw her away like a piece of garbage...to be collected at a certain date....Would like to know where Fox found this information....Maybe chat later....

Ironside said...

Hi Viv..Alsabella....

Viv will thet accept euro's..and a whit envelope?

Alsabella thanks for your post...would it not be ironic if
the Irishman turns out to be the father of the young girl outside smoking...Who bumped into someone
carrying a child...He has confirmed it was not Murat dont'
know if you have heard this....Of
course could just have been a tourist....I love the irish but when they have had a few drinks
with their accent...hard to understand what they are saying..
Could be he was from another country and did not want to get involved with someone who appeared
a little tipsy shall we say....Time will tell...

alsabella said...

Ironside, could be. As the child is a minor, I guess she will be accompanied by her father at all times...

As for the donated cash " like people around the world are doing"... I wonder if it contributed towards the new 4 x 4...

josiepublic said...

Hi Viv darling;

I listened to the radio interview on Joana Morais blog . Clara didn't take well to some of the questions and you can clearly hear some loud laughter from others in the studio but the questioning was fairly mild really but Clara couldn't cope.

If he is ever questioned harshly by the police he most probably will cry.

Has he ever received monies in an envelope? I only wonder because he seems to think its normal practice.

Love Plainwaters XXXX

Ironside said...

Plainwaters....It is so nice to see you posting again...I wish you and all your family the best for the new year...There is no news today from spain...it is mainly
politics..rayal news..it was the kings birthday ...he was 70..any excuse for a drink...fiestas in the streets....and of course the vary sad news of the young irish
girl who is still missing here in
spain....we fear the worst...as the Guardia are searching baron land...Her mother is with them searching also..That is a mother...
a real mother...she is in the same clothes hasnt washed for days..she could care less..she just wants her daughter....I hope she is found safe...but we all know everyday that goes by...the chances become less....

Anonymous said...

I wonder what all you guys think about The Madeleine McCann Show. Because that is what it has turned into, a show, or better, a soap, a reality-soap, whose storyline the writers of Eastenders must envy and the rest of us follow with a combination of compassionate concern and perverse fascination as we anxiously await the next episode.

There are several factors to the obsession. One, of course, its sine qua non, is the media attention. As the doyen of American TV-journalists Walter Cronkite once said, “The news is what I say it is.” Not only the British, indeed the global media said, “Let the McCann story be the news - and, behold, the McCann story was news.”

Another factor is the archetypal, mythological nature of the story: beautiful blond child in alien environment seized by the dark force - it perfectly fits the genre of the fairy tale and taps into the subterranean fears of the collective unconscious. That the family is educated, wealthy - and Christian - adds to the frisson.

In Britain there is also the Diana factor of mass emotional inflation and the icon of the teddy bear.

And fundamentally, of course, there is the mystery: what actually happened? The overwhelming initial presumption was that Madeleine was abducted either by a predatory paedophile, the paragon of contemporary demonic figures, or by a more calculating, capitalist kidnapper for whom the child was a commodity to be sold to a speculator in the marketplace of children. Then, in the late summer, the unthinkable: suspicions turned on Madeleine’s parents, and specifically, on her mother Kate - the heinous violation of love and trust - suspicions fuelled by leaks and half-truths about the police investigations, compounded by anticipations of a CSI solution to the case, scientifically done-and-dusted.

In the UK there are also subtexts. One is racial (and deplorable): What do a bunch of spic detectives know about complex criminal procedures and forensic examinations? Another is classist (and there is some truth to it): If Madeleine’s mother were a single chav parent, do you think for a moment that she wouldn’t be on the receving end of calumny rather than sympathy for leaving her children on their own for half an hour?

So much for the cod analysis. But two more very serious, if obvious, points. First, this is not a show, there is a little girl out there who is missing. Keep Madeleine in your prayers. And let her be a synecdoche for all missing children: keep all missing children in your prayers. And keep Madeleine’s family, and the investigators too, in your prayers.

Second - and I’ll put this in my usual unprovocative way - if you have an opinion about what has actually happened to Madeleine you are an idiot. If you are aghast and outraged that Gerry and Kate McCann could even come under suspicion, or, conversely, if you have turned on them with accusatory malice, then you are a mere weathervane in the arbitrary and shifting winds of slipshod jounalism. We simply do not have the information we need to evaluate in order reach a rational and judicious conclusion on the matter. So along with prayer, a little more of what Keats called “negative capability”, please: the capacity “of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts without any irritable reaching after fact and reason.”

josiepublic said...

Anon above;

"So much for the cod analysis. But two more very serious, if obvious, points. First, this is not a show, there is a little girl out there who is missing."


You think Madeleine is missing? Well I suppose you're right she is missing- or at least her body is as DNA extracted from fluids left by a corpse in her parents hire car show that she was dead when transported in that vehicle.

If that simple fact doesn't worry you then I suggest you are in a minority but good luck with your campaign- I noticed the same McCann spin (by Kim?) posted by Jojam this morning on the Daily Express nice of you to share it here but my thoughts are securely focused on Madeleine and what may have happened to her; also on what the effects of ignoring her parents involvement and neglect might have on other children.

Needless to say this sort of misdirected pious dribble only feeds my resolve to keep posting.

Good luck with everyone else though.


Sorry Viv I couldn't resist answering.

ironside said...

Plainwaters....Great good to see you back...and you are back....Without your voice we are weaker and we cannot afford that....carryon fighting as will we all...they wont get awawy with this we wont let them.....as long as we stay strong....am having some help with DX problem ....I wont give up there either...bullyingwill not be supported....Take care your great...

josiepublic said...

Ironside; my voice is only one small voice and not as strong as yours and lots of others but I appreciate that you have noticed that I am part of those who seek justice.

Lots of love to you and your family also. Plainwaters. X

docmac said...

Hi Ironside

I have most certainly heard about the shovel and the map. Can't for the life of me remember where. Incidentally I have read on the DE forum repeated postings by a very prolific poster that body fluids including blood could not possibly have been deposited 3 weeks after death (she did say 5 weeks, but her maths is obviously not that great). Well, considering that the temprorary burial story is looking ever more likely to be true, this would delay or prolong slightly the process of 'black putrefaction'. As distasteful as it is, I will paste a simple version here for you as it fits in very well with the rental of the Renault Scenic.

By the way, hello to all. I'm ill at the moment and don't know if I will post again today. You keep up the good fight for justice for that poor girl. The more sensitive amongst you please stop reading here.

Step 3: Black putrefaction

This stage occurs from 10 to 20 days after death. The bloated body eventually collapses and the flesh has gotten creamy (like cottage cheese). The exposed parts of the body have turned black and the body really begins to stink. A lot of the fluids have now leaked out of the
body into the soil attracting more insects and mites. These insects and mites will eventually consume most of the flesh on the body. Bacteria are still at work also, and will consume the flesh if there are no insects around. The temperature of the body also increases due to all of
the insect activity.

Anonymous said...

Oh dear, but thanks anyway doc.

In your estimation would it be feasable to transport a body at that stage of decomposition.

Anonymous said...


Ironside said...

Hi Don.Docmac....Look after yourself...How can a doctor get sick?..I thought that was impossible with all your knowledge...anyway keep taking the pills..and look after yourself....
As always thanks for the invaluable information....Take care
Respect always...Ironside

eureka said...

Hiya Viv, The "fair trial" issue is an interesting one. The Ian Huntley investigation attracted a lot of publicity too and Huntley was interviewed on Sky News etc. before his arrest as a helpful member of the public assisting in the search for the children. Could one of the reasons for the rash of press stories now be to whip up so much public opinion that the Mcs would claim they wouldn't get a fair trial?

If so, certainly this would also backfire on them as if their case wasn't tried they could never clear their names and would remain arguidos forever.

I wonder whether, behind the scenes, a reasonable legal team, when they see the damning evidence, will agree not to take that path.

If arrests are made, then the media will be required to calm down and report 'responsibly' from then on, and perhaps there'll be a long cooling down period before any trial.

Cláudia said...

These people have lost their minds. Money in envelopes? That, I'm not doing. But if they want to, I can pay for their plane ticket to Portugal today!
Have a great afternoon, Viv, my dear friend!

felicity said...

Hiya Everyone!

What a great response again - thanks!

Anon - I think they are shameless - just like the Hamiltons. The Hamiltons were of course found to have been accepting money in brown envelopes from Mr Al Fayed but still sought to sue him for defamation of character - but lost. So in that respect there is a clear similarity to the McCanns. Where the similarity ends is they are not guilty of any more than that. Some woman also tried to accuse them of rape and got three years for her trouble. The Hamiltons were prepared to go ahead with their defamation action even though they were guilty - all we get from the McCanns is the threat. They are terrified of having to go anywhere near a court and explain their actions.

I see in the DX today there are details of another magazine interview they have done. I find it interesting Gerry put the scenarios of Maddie having been drugged and falling down the steps or Kate being in a rage and killing her. How interesting he misses out the scenario of him being in a rage and killing her - he says he has read all the allegations so how come he has missed that one out. I think psychologists would make quite a lot of that!

Lizzy: It has been reported that Clarence is actually employed by the D/g salesman and spends two days a week travelling up from his home in Bath to be with the McCanns. So after the McCanns he will just work for him. I cannot see any way on earth Gordon Brown would have such a dirty word close to him working for the gov again. He has enough problems without having Claris back - I think it is likely he was pushed out of his job with the gov - he never seems to stay anywhere long - bit of a Gerry personality style!

Will do some fresh posts to carry on answering otherwise they get a bit lon winded !

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Rat - are there really people from all over the world sending them money in envelopes - or is this a bit more Claris spin - hoping we the dopy Brit public will start doing the same? I hope now he has broached the subject the taxman gets on to Kate and Gerry - how come they are pleading broke but just got a nice new 4 x 4! They never do anything to get the public behind them. If they really wanted to find Madeleine why not put that expensive house up for sale - some people want it all ways! I would not offer 1p to fund their lifestyle!

Viv x

felicity said...

Josiepublic/Plainwaters - we are all delighted to have you back!!

How can he think getting money in envelopes is normal - it really smacks of an intention to defraud by getting money straight to the McCanns without them even having to account for what they do with it - is this the desperation to get money not just for their lifestyle /her missing salary - but for all the money they want to spend on defending themselves - leaving no stone unturned!

So people were actually laughing at his attempts to field the questions - in fairness who could defend the McCanns!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Hello Ironside, Doc and Alsabella - thanks for your comments!
Oh and Josie - well put to Anon!


It does concern me that there has been so much in the media they may try to say they cant get a fair trial. Maybe they would prefer no trial and always having their name blackened /cashing in on it like the Hamiltons to a trial and being found guilty!

As you say once they are charged the press will have to calm down and stop the daily reports giving us further little details, otherwise they will be in "contempt of court".

I do think that a reasonable legal team may offer the advice it is better to go guilty but cannot see Gerry McCann accepting that advice! Going not guilty is always a huge gamble because setences are routinely reduced by a third for a guilty plea - sometimes even more - so if you go not guilty and are found guilty you get the full wack and on a manslaughter or murder rap that can be a lot of extra years. Of course for murder it is an automatic life sentence but nevertheless the judge will set a tariff as to how many years you should actually serve prior to being let out on parole. It does not seem they are going for murder though - it may be too difficult to prove but I think that is what it is.

Great to hear from you again.


You are generous to a fault darling in offering to pay their air fare - but I think that is one free ride they would turn down!

Luv Viv x

Ironside said...

Docmac...Found it...am looking for a link...give me time..

10.01.08, 3:31pm

strange the way no british media will refer back to
kate's mothers comment the day after the child
went missing..........

"madeliene couldn't have wandered off
because she had a sleep disorder, she was a sleep
walker and had to be sedated every night"

@ british press may 5th.

i suppose that's where the portugese police
got the idea that the children
were all being sedated ...
and seeing as it came from kate's mother...it must be true

• Posted by: IRONSIDE • Report Comment

felicity said...

Hiya Ironside

Thanks for that. I think the McCanns and their advisers have made a serious error by seeking to discredit prosecution evidence and put it into the public domain because the fact that they need to do this gives credit to the evidence.

They have responded to the doping theories by saying they got the twins tested and they responded to the DNA in the hire car by saying that was dirty nappies and rotting meat. I know why they did it because they wanted the cash to keep rolling but their constant input into press speculation has only sought to confirm they take these allegations seriously and give them greater credence. As we have said before "they protest too much". Murat on the other hand has behaved impeccably and as a result people think he is innocent - he has probably managed to keep his mouth shut in spite of all the scurrilous allegations because he is innocent.

Various comments from family members have certainly not helped the McCanns!

As ever thanks so much for all the helpful information you put on my blog. It is really appreciated.

Also I do not forget your support when Rosie and Co were being so horrible to me on the DE.

Luv Viv x

Ironside said...

Hi Viv...This is the nearest I can find am still looking

Missing on the Algarve


Tapas for two ... then parents' nightmare began

Police hunt three-year-old believed abducted from holiday apartment

Sandra Laville, Martin Wainwright, Dale Fuchs in Faro
Saturday May 5, 2007
The Guardian

The telephone rang at around 11pm at Trish Cameron's home near Glasgow. She picked it up to hear the voice of her younger brother. "He was distraught, breaking his heart," Mrs Cameron said. "He said: 'Madeleine's been abducted, she's been abducted.'"
Hundreds of miles away in Portugal's western Algarve Gerald McCann, whose job as a heart surgeon demands a calm, steady nerve, had lost any semblance of control and was crying down the telephone to his older sister. Just an hour earlier he and his wife Kate had returned to their ground floor apartment in the Ocean Club holiday resort to find that three-year-old Madeleine, the little girl they had left asleep in her white pyjamas, had disappeared.

Article continues



Their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, lay undisturbed in their cots beside the bed, making the absence of the child they call Maddy all the more haunting. Nothing appeared to have been stolen from the room, but the shutters seemed to have been forced, the window was open and the main door unlocked, according to the family.
It was Mrs McCann who walked in first. Minutes later she ran out screaming, according to her sister in law. In the confusion and melee that followed, the police were called and other holidaymakers woken to carry out a search for the three-year-old, amid hopes that she was merely sleepwalking.

But by the time Mr McCann picked up the phone to his sister in Dumbarton the thread of hope that Maddy had simply climbed out of the window and wandered off had been eclipsed by the growing certainty that she had been snatched while he and his wife ate tapas just 100 yards away within the holiday complex.

The luxury resort in Praia de la Luz, where Moorish-style villas sit amid sub-tropical gardens overlooking a beach of white sand, was transformed into a crime scene yesterday.

Portuguese police used a sniffer dog to check around the complex. The five storey block where the McCanns were staying was sealed off and forensic experts were dusting the shutters and windows of their two bedroomed apartment for fingerprints. Those holidaymakers who were not taking part in the continuing search for any sign of the child were handing out photographs of her in the hope that someone either within the resort or outside in the small village of Praia de la Luz would have spotted her.

"She is an absolutely beautiful wee blonde girl with blue green eyes," said Mrs Cameron. "Her one distinguishing features is that one of her pupils runs down into the iris of her eye, her right eye."

The Foreign Office said a liaison officer from the Serious and Organised Crime Unit was in touch with the Portuguese chief of police. Two officials from the British Consulate in nearby Portimao were with the family to help them as they dealt with the police, a spokesman said.

The couple were being interviewed yesterday afternoon by Portuguese detectives, who took them through their movements on Thursday night in detail.

Mrs McCann, a GP in Leicester and her husband, who works in the world renowned cardiac unit of Glenfield Hospital, in the city, flew out to the Algarve with eight friends last Saturday for the week-long break.

Maddy, their eldest child, was going to be four next week and was due to start school in September. Family friend Jill Renwick said it was the first time they had been away somewhere with the children and that they had chosen the resort with care. "This is the first time they have done this. They are very, very anxious parents and very careful and they chose [the resort] because it is family-friendly," she said.

Throughout the week the family enjoyed the facilities in the resort, which boasts four swimming pools, the beach and childcare from 7.30pm to 11.30pm for those parents who want it.

On Thursday night the McCanns went out after 8pm, having put their three children into their pyjamas and seen them fall asleep in their bedroom in the apartment. "They weren't out for long, and they could see the apartment from the restaurant" said Brian Healy, Madeleine's maternal grandfather.

Mrs Cameron said the couple checked on the children every half hour; the last check was made after 9pm by Mr McCann. Some time between then and around 10pm when his wife walked into the room to find Madeleine missing, the family believes an intruder broke in and snatched the girl.

Mrs Cameron said: "Nothing had been touched in the apartment, no valuables taken, no passports. They think someone must have come in the window and gone out the door with her."

Paul Moyes, 47, from Cheshire and his wife Susan, who own a holiday apartment in the same block as the McCanns, said they were woken at 11.30pm by a knock on the door and asked to join in a search for a missing girl.

"We went down to the beach with scores of other people to look for her," said Mr Moyes. "The police arrived at around midnight and by that stage we were already out looking. There were uniformed police, plain clothes and even off duty local officers who joined in.

"The search went on all night, people were using torches, and in the morning police sniffer dogs arrived."

By 4.30am exhausted holidaymakers began drifting away, having found no sign of Madeleine. Back home in Dumbarton, Mrs Cameron spoke to her brother again at 10am yesterday.

Ironside said...

Hi Viv...They are all on there now...funny how they arrive all at the same time...Someone once said to me when you see a pile of horse shit....you dont walk in it do you? you walk around...and thatswhat I'm doing Viv...just walking around....Take care....If only I could find a link...this would be priceless...back later

Ironside said...

Hi Viv...Do you know anyone in Liverpool... This was reported in the Liverpool Daily Post 5th May....morning edition.....You are allowed to go and check back issues.....any of viv's posters
live in the area and care to check it out....it would be priceless

Dylan05 said...

Hi good people,

Yesterday I tried to post but left off the URL and it didn't appear on the site - doh!
It went something like; soz for Tue's post. I had over celebrated finishing exams and didn't even dare to read back what drivel i'd posted!
Viv - I'm a mum and not a dad - at least the last time I checked! Dylan is our dog. He's a cheeky Jack Russell cross with an unhealthy obsession with licking his bits! ~ not that that is any reflection of me except for the cheekyness. Thanks for your wishes of good luck. I'm doing environmental science, I had wanted to do a PhD but the nasty uni people woudn't let me until I'd done a masters because I only got a 2ii in my BSc.

I do actually buy the DE, but I always make sure I have a large, blue sports bag handy to hide it in in case I get spotted!!

DocMac, thanks for your thoughts and medical opinions. Gruesome for me being miss squeamish but it makes sense. G is sooo controlling, I can't imagine him losing it that badly but from the bruises etc on Ks arm, it is looking that way. Maybe he should have prescribed himself some sedatives? I hope you get well soon. Everyone seems to be coming down with the "lurgy" at the mo.

Re the DE today, a couple of quotes from Gerry (and I really, really can't believe he said this): They were not irresponsible to leave their children that night - "At the time we did it, it was not irresponsible. Of course we feel guilty at not having been there....." Not irresponsible??? Why can't these people just admit what utter morons and selfish arses they were?

The other was a classic and smacks of find the body...."Yes,yes I know.Kate killed her in a frenzy, Madeleine was sedated by us, she fell down the stairs - in which case you would have thought they'd have found a body. I've heard all of that. There are a huge number of theories in the media. But what I want to know is, who told them all that?"
Erm, Gerry, the forensics maybe??

It sounds as though a raw nerve has been touched again and that maybe he knows just how close "they" all are.

As for CM and the money, well how very dare you!!

I'll see if anything pops up on HYS and Rosie, which reminds me, I must clean my loo out today!

Dyl x

ratonthebeam said...

I'd be willing to bet that the shiny new 4X4 appears in the Fund accounts as a "business asset".

felicity said...

Hiya Ironside

Thanks for posting that original story from the Guardian. It is interesting they say half hourly checks but then stated Gerry checked at 9 and Kate at 10. They have missed out the supposed check by M Oldfield at 9.30 and here are saying the window was almost an hour. Again, evidence of the story keep subtly changing over time - which true stories do not! Again we get the climbed out the window theory but of course forensics have disproved this and so we get the - oh well we left he patio doors open. Being so materially minded I am sure they did not do that although I accept they do not care two hoots if the children are safe.

Disturbed children sometimes sleepwalk...and suck their mouth in like Madeleine does on that video, looking very sad and contemplative.

Unfortunately I do not know anyone in Liverpool and live a long way away but Dr Val lives in Liverpool so perhaps you could ask her on the DE - as you know she is a keen researcher!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya again Dylan 05

Firstly, so sorry about getting your sex wrong - this I confess I have repeatedly done with various posters!

What a downer about having to do the MSc in between - demand a recount!! Will that be another 12 months course?

LOLOLOLO Sports bag to hide your copy of the DX!

I think the problem with people like Gerry is everyone else sees something wrong with such people but personally, they firmly believe they are perfect and can always justify their actions. It is just that normal people do not find those attempts to minimise and justify their actions acceptable. When you start to read his explanations for their behaviour that night you think for just a moment he is starting to apologise but then "we were not irresponsible that night". Then how come they "lost" Madeleine! Of course we could take this as an admission..she did not get the chance to wander off because the door was locked and she did not get abducted either - he knows exactly what happened and it was nothing to do with their neglect. That is just a symptom of seriously abusive parents rather than the cause of what actually happened to Madeleine.

Yes, we all love Rosie on the DE - did you get your loo cleaned or were you too because reading some other shite?

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya RAT

Does the 4 x 4 help them get away from the press quicker so there will be no more pics he did not want taking when he is being his usual hideous self?

I have no doubt between Gerry and big bro John there has been some very creative accounting work done! Wonder how their meeting went and how many directors have actually resigned.

Luv Viv x

Ironside said...

Hi Docmac...Just popped on to see how you are...dont post as you are
under the weather do you remember that discussion we had months ago now about kates mother saying they sedated madeleine because she used to sleep walk....can you remember what she said they gave her.Thanks...not today leave it until you are better..

Dylan05 said...

Hi Viv,

Don't worry, I used to be a tom boy. An old couple I delivered papers to for 2 years, invited me in for a christmas malibu. When I left, they gave me a tip and said "thanks a lot son" - ouch!

I finish in July. Somehow I don't think law is easy - I sometimes watch that american law series (can't remember the name) and I always used to get very lost in all of the twisty turny bits! Plus, I'm rubbish at remembering names and dates.

Do you still work in law? I can tell from your posts and always could on HYS that you seem to remember every detail. As you have today with the timings, I've got really confused with it all now!

Has anyone heard what has happened about the waiter's witness statement - the one that was protected by the PJ before xmas? If what he says is true, then nobody left the table apart from OB and in that case the timing doesn't matter anyway as it renders the checks and sightings as all lies. Or have I got that wrong?

Concerned for Docmac, he must be really poorly to be unable to post. There are indeed some nasties going around but as I've observed today, it seems to be mostly confined to plops and lazarus!

Dyl the dawg x

docmac said...

Hi Ironside

Still not great, so only here for a short while. Haven't read anything else today at all. To answer your question, it was Valium. Hope you and yours and your four-legged friends are well. Did you read that story in the mail about those horses they found in such terrible conditions at the Amersham farm? Possibly Britain's worst ever case of animal cruelty they are saying. I hope they nail those bastards and throw away the key.

Thanks Dylan05, just a pretty nasty flu, in 33C heat, in Cape Town and in summer! Pretty unusual, but must have picked it up from a foreign tourist as there are lots of them about. I'll be right as rain next week for sure. BTW someone mentioned on the DE forum previously about being a Jack Russell fanatic, so you have me trying to remember who the heck it was!

Kindest regards to you both and your loved ones.

felicity said...

Hiya Dylan

Funny I was a bit of a tomboy as well - never happier than climbing trees in the woods or ripping my underskirt climbing over a fence! Does anyone still bother with them these days! Always in trousers.

I do not still work in law - I re-trained as a probation officer but gave up work due to the problems with my ankles which they were not very sympathetic about - they owe me some compensation money so dont know whether I will ever bother to go back.

I dont think I remember every detail in fact I get quite annoyed with myself. I just dont know how I learned all the cases to pass law exams because I just cannot remember peoples names now - you might have noticed I keep saying that d/g man because I cannot remember his name! I used to put law on tape and then lie in bed listening to it to pass exams - sad! I do not remember it all - sometimes if I look at stuff now - I think god you used to know all that! I think getting a law degree just teaches you to be able to recognise the salient points in a set of facts and know where to look to research the relevant bits of the law.

I dont think you have got it wrong about the waiter that is what I recall his evidence is and very damning too!

I too hope Doc will be OK - it has been a real pleasure to get to know him - he is a fantastic guy! I have emailed him and will let you all know when I hear back from him.

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Ah Hiya Doc - we was just talking about you! Go and lie in a nice cool pool or bath and chill out a bit. I hope you are soon on the mend.

Those poor horses and ponies at Amersham. It is just unbelievable that they would have so many animals and let this starve and die. Unfortunately people get much lighter sentence for ill-treatment of animals. Thank god they were able to save a lot of them but I wonder if they will ever really recover from that kind of suffering. What a cruel world we live in. I think anyone who is capable of treating animals in that way could be just as dangerous to humans. It shows a similar complete lack of empathy and compassion. They do say that is one way to spot a psychopath dont they! Sounds like the bloke had a go at the police as well - I hope they throw the book at him and the other prisoners let him know what they think!

Can you really give children valium? That is staggering. Do you agree sleepwalking can be a sign of a disturbed child?

Dont bother though if you are feeling rotten.

Loads a love Viv
and please look after yourself - do yourself a good script and get well soon xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

lizzy said...

I live in the Liverpool area so if you give me details will check it out for you....Lizzy

docmac said...

Viv, Valium has many uses, even in children. It is the oldest and still most widely used treatment for sleepwalking, including in children (worldwide, though there are newer treatments available but they don't cause the kid to sleep that long, if you get what I mean ;-). I have to advise, however, that sleepwalking in very young kids, say under age 8 is EXCEEDINGLY RARE, almost unheard of in fact. These younger kids usually suffer night terrors (a variation on nightmares) rather than sleepwalking per se.

I am well known as believing that Gerry McCann and his family are scheming liars and I can imagine the sleepwalking story having been invented as proper research was not done in that panic-stricken first couple of days by doctors with little paediatric experience looking for excuses on the internet. They would have said "look, somnambulism, let's use that one and get Susan to use it." The other uses for diazepam use in children would entail them having to produce medical records of epileptic fits, muscular dystonias etc and that was not going to happen. When the body was not found early and forensic tests were deemed by them as not likely the story got killed. I think she was regularly sedated with this drug and they needed a get out of jail card if Madeleine had been found early. My opinion only.

PS they made a huge mistake. This is the punchline! Diazepam is also used to treat night terrors in that age group. They obviously missed that ;-)

lizzy said...

Do you think Kate's mum when she said Valium meant Vallergen which is a bit different, my Gp prescribed it for my daughter when she was a toddler as she would not sleep she only had it for a week then she was in a routine,. I thought it was a type of Valium as have no medical knowledge, presume Kate;s mum doesn't have much either, Vallergen used to be used a pre op sedative. I understand it can be dangerous when given to children sometimes.

docmac said...

I just had a quick peek on the net and found this article on the benzodiazepines. It is 10 years old, but then benzo's have been around much longer so it is still relevant. The whole article is interesting as it can be easily understood by the layman (there's your 'date rape' drug in there too, but of particular interest to you, Viv, will be Table1.

Lizzy the article has been removed from the post. It has not been removed from my brain, neither has the Sky broadcast from whence it originated. Hope you and yours are well.

ratonthebeam said...

I actually saw the interview on Sky and she definitely said VALIUM.

docmac said...

Sherbet, forgot the link.



felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie thanks for offering to check for Ironside

Doc I see what you are saying and that is very worrying. Night terrors are likely in a child who is being abused I suppose. So, in the early stages - perhaps when the body was buried in the sand they thought it may be found and needed an explanation for the diazepam that would be found on a post-mortem. How terrible to be giving their children such harmful drugs. Note Rat confirms valium. I know when I was working with drug using offenders they would sometimes take valium as a substitute for heroin if they could not get any. I also know benzos, some using in combination with alcohol, can have terrible effects on people but I will refresh my knowledge and read up the link you gave me as I cannot remember the effects in detail.

Was just having a quick look at the DE and just came across yet another post from Rosie where she demonstrates her all consuming hatred or Dr Amaral. He is of course the officer in charge who suspected and investigated the McCanns leading to them being named Arguidos. If she is not one of them then she must surely be very close. Offenders do develop an all consuming hatred of police officers who have pursued their offending behaviour and sought to bring them to justice. She just cannot let this drop can she? If it were not for Amaral......(!)

10.01.08, 7:58pm

10.01.08, 7:46pm

Do you mean the secrecy law that selectively leaks smears and unsubstantiated reports ?

• Posted by: Tinkerbell43 • Report Comment

yes that's the one!

Apparently a Portuguese lawyer has said the secrecy law is like the spped limit, everyone knows it, but no one keeps it.

Out of a 100.000 arguidos and arguidas, the PJ force 9 people to remain quiet and threaten 2 0f them with a 2 year jail sentence if they break them.

I wonder if this secrecy law applies to good old Goncalo Amaral? Only when it comes to his own arguido status, apparently, he doesn't want to talk about his involvement in the Leona Cipriano beatings and the fact that her face resembled the elephant man all bruised and battered, but he can find his tongue to talk about and leak against the McCann's and we still haven't discovered how a journalist he knows very well, managed to get hold of copies of witness statements and names, addresses and telephone numbers of those witnesses!

Some real convenient law Portugal's secrecy law isn't it?

(If your name isn't McCann anyway)

• Posted by: Rosiepops

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

Do you think Kate may have been prescribed valium when Maddie was a baby given she says she used to cry for 18 hours a day?

Do you think it is possible she is prescribed it because she is addicted to it? It is odd the "defence" decided to do tests on Kate for "anti-depressants". Valium is not an anti-depressant. Could this explain Kate's presentation do you think? "Comfortably numb"...

Could this be how she was able to give it to Maddie?


docmac said...

Very revealing

I hope that answered all of your questions.

felicity said...

Thanks Doc

Luv ~Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Docmac,
Yes we are all fine here thanks, how are you now any better?
If Madeleine was given valium it would add up ,as if Kate thought her hyperactive it would subdue her which is maybe why in some photos of her she looks subdued even sad. Have you heard any more info re the Tapas member who sought to change his version of events?

Anonymous said...

Daily Star.....police probe Tapas 7 secret meeting.

docmac said...

Hi Lizzy I have not heard anything at all (yet). To be honest I can't even look at photographs of Madeleine anymore. I turn 'show pictures' off in my web browser whenever I go to a site that may have pictures of her now. I am feeling a little better now. Thank you for asking. I hope to be back to full speed after the weekend. Look after yourself.

Enough! said...

Sorry Clary but while I am very sorry about what happened to that little girl, I can think of hundreds of causes to which I would rather give my brown money envelopes than to an already well off pair who are supported by millionaires and who are seemingly throwing the money away on useless detectives, spokespeople, media spin...I just feel sorry for the people who have gone through similar situations and have had no help at all. Spare a thought for them.