21 Jan 2008

MCCANN FRIENDS SAY THEY DID NOT ARRIVE UNTIL 9 PM


Hi All, I have been keen to find this article again in the News of the World - pretty damaging stuff from Gerry's favourite paper and certainly far less favourable to what they are writing now! As will be seen it claims that Kate and Gerry say they arrived at 8.30 but friends statement say no - it was just before 9 pm. If memory serves Gerry offered another time in Panorama 8.40 (let's split the difference!). I think this must be one of the major discrepancies the PJ are talking about as between the friends and Kate and Gerry - now why would the McCanns state they arrived early before everyone else - he certainly says this on Panorama also. If someone is lying there will always be a reason for this - maybe they had a little unfinished business. Again it raises the anomoly why would Gerry go and check literally within a few minutes of arriving as he clearly did - Wilkins saw him. I wonder.. do the friends now want to say to PJ - sorry we got that wrong - actually they were the first to arrive..


I note it was reported on BBC News 24 Jane Tanner wanted to go back to Portugal and help the PJ ..but they have ignored her...carry on panicking Jane ...we understand! Those big bad PJs like to leave you to sweat dont they - how awful...


Viv x



THE LOST HALF HOUR
By Lucy Panton
PORTUGUESE police are concentrating on what they claim is a missing half hour in accounts of the night Madeleine disappeared.
The McCanns told detectives they believed they arrived at the Tapas restaurant at 8.30pm.
But months into the investigation, Portuguese detectives now allege they did not turn up until almost 30 minutes later.
Friends' statements show there may be differences of opinion over what time Kate and Gerry arrived with some of the pals stating it was just before 9pm.
Police want to quiz the couple again over what they call the "missing half hour".

A police source said: "We believe the timetable of events that evening is crucial to the inquiry. We want to know how they could make such a mistake over the time they arrived."
Early on in the investigation the McCanns said they got to the restaurant at 8.30pm.
Based on arrival timings given by their dining companions, that would mean the tragic couple arrived first before their friends.
But police sources say statements given by those pals show the McCanns arrived just before 9pm—and that by then all of their friends were already there.
Checked
The statements claim that Russell O'Brien, Jane Tanner, Matthew and Rachel Oldfield were first to arrive at around 8.45pm.
At 8.55 David and Fiona Payne were said to have turned up with Fiona's mum, Diane Webster.
Some statements indicate that the McCanns turned up two or three minutes after the Paynes.
If these new timings are accurate police are questioning why Gerry would go back and check the children just 5 minutes later.
He is reported as saying he checked the apartment and all three children were sleeping at 9.05pm.
This was confirmed when on his way back he stopped to speak to Jeremy Wilkins, another guest at the resort he had met playing tennis earlier in the week.
At 9.10pm Jane Tanner said she crossed Gerry's path on her way to check her own children.
Around that time she says she saw a man carrying away a child she now believes was Madeleine.
She describes the man as aged 35, dark-haired. wearing beige trousers and black shoes. She said the girl, who appeared to be sleeping, was toddler age, bare-footed and wearing pink pyjamas like Madeleine's.
No one else out that night reported seeing this man.
Portuguese cops have piled on the agony for the McCanns by retracing their steps and naming them both as official suspects. They believe the couple may have been involved in the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine. And they think one may be covering up for the other.
Officers are probing a "three-hour window of opportunity" on the theory that during this time Madeleine was killed in the apartment and her body hidden somewhere nearby.
It starts the last time the children were seen alive by anyone but their parents and ends when Kate and Gerry were seen in public.
The last time Madeleine was seen alive was by staff at the Ocean Club creche at 6pm.
The McCanns were then alone with their children for almost three hours at the most if they did arrive at the Tapas restaurant at 9pm.A police source said: "The couple are being monitored to see how they react to every new piece of information they receive.
"The pressure has slowly been mounting on the McCanns over the last month as new information has been fed into the inquiry." Sources say the couple have been kept under surveillance following the discovery by a dog of the smell of death in their apartment on August 1.
Police now claim they have detected blood in a Renault Scenic car hired by the McCanns 24 days after Maddie's disappearance.
During questioning, GP Kate was asked why she had washed Madeleine's favourite toy "Cuddle Cat". Cops believe she has was trying to hide forensic evidence of her daughter's death.
Washed
The police claim the smell of a corpse was found on Kate's T-shirt, jeans and on Cuddle Cat.
Kate says she washed the toy on August 5—four days after police dogs picked up "the scent of death".
She insists she washed the toy simply because it was covered in dirt and sun tan lotion.
Portuguese police are relying heavily on a Cracker-style profiler who has been studying the McCanns' behaviour. The profiler has reportedly claimed that he suspects that the couple, from Rothley, Leics, could be "distracting" themselves from the horror of what they might have done by getting involved in the massive media campaign.
Doubts have also been cast over the lack of emotion and the controlled composure of the couple since their daughter disappeared.
The profiler has told cops that this matches that of a couple who are united and focused in a bid to cover up a tragedy.
But former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby, who led the hunt to trap the killers of toddler James Bulger, said: "There is very little time for the McCanns to have murdered their daughter and disposed of her body.
"And they would have had to carry her body a short distance away and concealed it without anyone spotting them. The body would have also had to remain concealed and unfound for a long time despite the police search.
"The Portuguese police must believe that one of them managed to conceal the body in a flat or a bush."

READ: NOW WE'RE FIGHTING FOR OUR LIVES
READ: KATE'S FEAR OF BEING LOCKED UP
READ: THREE COP THEORIES
READ: CAR BOOT EVIDENCE 'FLAWED'
READ: 'CRUCIAL' HIRE VEHICLE REMAINS ON THE ROAD
READ: CODE MADELEINE CAMPAIGN
READ: £1.5m REWARD
TELL US YOUR VIEWS ON THE INVESTIGATION

98 comments:

Ironside said...

Hi viv ...I think how Rachel was so specific about the time was that she said they arrived at 8.55 and the mccanns about three minutes later..hence 8.58.
Makes no sense does it...to then go straight back and check on the children.IMHO gerry went back to the appartment for one reason and one reason only...To prepare the crime scene...Only thing wilkins showed up....so gerry had no time....
He tried to tell kate by saying I bumped into that bloody wilkins....
or words to that effect....Oldfield should have found shutters up..he would have entered app. and seen madeleine was not there....Returned to table...by then they had an outside witness...the quizmistress
who would have been there to see kate and gerry fall apart together...I am convinced the abduction was set for 9.30.....

Yogaden said...

Hi Viv

Just thought I would ask if anyone saw clarance on GMTV this morning.

They made a hugh thing about the new photofit and it was only half way through the interview that he stated it was their investigators that had drawn up the picture. Kept saying don't want to critise the police etc etc, no point placing blame, lets get back to real investigation blah blah blah.

He also said the Jane Tanner had offered to go back to portugal to speak to police. They then spoke to a journalist in Portugal who said the newspaper CM have started to turn against the police in a report that wonders why they didn't act on this info. Even had an interview with Gail!!!!!

Fiona Phillips was sickly through the whole very biased interview which made me want to throw up.

Why are they allowed to get away with this?

Apologise for any spelling mistakes, am at work and felt so angry, I had to post this to calm myself down a bit.

Ironside said...

Alsabell, I amgoing to post you something....I would really like your opinion..It is from the mirror forum...Author...GOOD FOR YOU

Ironside said...

That's what people are asking about Northern Rock and Branson.

But what about the McCanns?

Okay conspiracy theory here. This post does not reflect my opinion. It is only a "what if" scenario, I am considering.

GORDON BROWN INVOLVEMENT

Gordon Brown allegedly told the Portuguese Premiere that the McCanns were innocent, or at least he believed them to be so.

We all have heard how Brown personally intevened to have the Bundleman description released.

Also of couse, one of his spin doctors is now providing spin for the McCanms.

Also it has been reported that if the McCanns were Portuguese and there wasn't all this political interference they would have been charged by now.

Perhaps the McCanns would have already been arrested and charged if Brown had kept his nose out.

Why are we still waiting for the next round of interviews?

Is this hold up from the top?

So what's the deal? Is Gordon helping the McCanns just because he would help any other suspects in their position? I don't think so.

Is it a political game between Portugal and Britain? Or even a bargaining chip over Gibraltar negotiations. The McCann case could humiliate the Portuguese reputation for its police and its tourism. Is it a matter of personal friendships, his brother who knows people who are friends of the Mccanns? Or is there a specific reason why Brown wants to protect the McCanns? A secret we may never know about?

Suppose yes to any in the above paragraph. How can the McCanns be helped out of this situation?


ACTION PLAN TO LET OFF THE MCCANNS


First delay next round of questions as this would elevate the McCanns as suspects in the public mind.

Suppose public opinion can be turned so that most people in Britain believe the McCanns are innocent, then Brown's people could get the charges dropped without an outcry.

How can that be achieved?

Bundleman is the key, just as Bundleman was very important to Gordon Brown's intervention before..

If Bundleman can be shown to be a real person who was also seen by other witnesses and perhaps even abducted another child (in Huelva) it would show clearly to most people that the McCanns must be innocent and there is no case therefore to make charges.


ACTION OVER PAST WEEK

All the elements have been put in place over the past week or so.

Child abducted not too far from Praia da Luz.

Cooperman, the man seen by Gail Cooper is all over the front pages and TV News in a new media frenzy.

Tanner confirms Cooperman and Bundleman are one and the same.

Above information put out in a media blitz.


ACTION PLAN IN NEXT FEW WEEKS


Sightings of Cooperman will be reported in Huelva.

This is the "proof" needed that Cooperman/Bundleman abducted Madeleine and also another child.

Therefore the British people must believe the McCanns are innocent.

Flaws in Portuguese investigation now to be ripped open and exposed in the media in another frenzy.

Media to repeat that there is no case to be made against the McCanns.

The British tell Portuguese they want to drop case against McCanns and the British police will not reinterview them. There is nothing Portuguese can do about it.

Arguido status dropped and McCanns told their will be no further action against them.

The secret that the McCanns hold that may or may not include a government secret are never revealed.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ironside your theory re.Oldfield should have been the one to find Maddie missing at 9-30.

Press reports state that Oldfield offered to check the Macs apartment. If true this would put Oldfield firmly in the initial planning.....

My thinking is most of the Tapas crew are guilty of covering up the neglect issue with their timelines of checking the children...leaving only 2 who are complicit in the whole saga.

Docmac...Do you know if the Tapas 1 attended the secret meet in Rothley?

Regards.

Good luck to Viv.

lmcg said...

Good morning Ironside, the post you have forwarded here is an extremely worrying scenario but unfortunately I'm wondering if it is not too far from the truth. I have read with interest your comments on the 3 arguidos regarding what is going on in Huelva. I can't believe they have the whole poster campaign thing going on there. Like you say how do a poor family like this pay for such publicity? You also say there is a lack of emotion on the Mother's face? Similarities here seem endless. I do wonder if we are indeed going to get sightings of the man in Huelva in the coming weeks?

Lmcg

josiepublic said...

Hi Ironside- hope you are well- lets not forget there is more to government than just the PM. I hope he is not involved but until the PJ are allowed to question and charge the McCanns I suspect everybody- my first forum has made me into a cynic.

There is only one side to be on as far as I'm concerned and that's Madeleine's- I believe that only the Portuguese courts can bring justice to this whole sad affair, lets hope the PJ and Leicester forces are allowed to do their work.

Poor little Maddie was only a little dab and comments from her doctor parents make me sick to my stomach. Speculation on how she will be giving the pedophiles "Her tuppenceworth" or whether she has enough food and blankets are only slightly less nauseating than hopes that she is being treated "like the princess she is" or advice to go to that safe place in her head. What place would that be- the one she was told to go to when she awoke alone and frightened? Next they will be promising her a sticky gold star when she gets home.

Whatever happened one thing is for sure they are desperate to escape justice but thats hardly unique amongst criminals.

They are a truly sick couple who put Shipman in the shade.


Hope Luke is okay Viv- my love to you both. Plain. XXXXXXXXX

dolores said...

Ironside g/morning
I have suspected this for a few months now, that there would be a huge cover up.And that they would walk away from this untarnished.If pressure is put on Portugal,it would be a sad day, and humiliation for PJ, after the dedication and time and money they spent in trying to solve this case.I feel so angry that they could smugly walk away get off with this.

Dolores said...

Viv
Could this be why according to CM
''Kate and Gerry are bouyant at the moment''And expect their status of arguido to be lifted,with this breaking news.
I fear that Madeleine will get no justice.
XX

Ironside said...

hi Plain, everyone....

It would appear that spain has its very own Clara inthe form of Alberto Castillon....he is a spanish reporter...who in the early days said the mccanns were guilty of killing their daughter..
This was when we first heard here about the blood on the curtains...that had tried to be removed with cleaning fluids....

He seems the worm that he is,,,,to have done a complete turn around....Praising Metodo saying british police are working with the FBI...and they are very close to catching the "abductor"

He went on to say Grandma saw this "creepy chap" walking on the beach in the rain...she then saw him talking to children on the beach...he then came to her house with false papers...then he said.....you wont believe this " the most significant part that makes this witness the best to date is that she saw him on the 3rd may ..the day madeleine was abducted....not missing ...abducted.....this Granny was in PDL in April....see what I mean...oh and he is convinced he is spanish....not morrocan.....

what a slime ball....

There is also something very weird going on with Huelva ....spoke to some friends today...who said...no one would risk going into a gypsy village a and take a gypsy child...they hate the police....they deal with things there way.....He said if anyone touched a gypsy girl and raoped her...they no the score....they would kill the whole family....and everyone knows it ...each clan has its godfather.....its taboo you just dont go near gypsy camps....
There is nothing in the spanish papers about M. or M:L:.....its election time so news is full on that score....

Except one sad thing plain, a family of five have been arrested for killing their nine month old baby...police say from reports it was beaten from the day it arrived home from the hospital....This was in Barcelona.....
Again the family plain,it seems always the family.....Dont think I can handle any more of this today...
Its becoming more and more crazy...I have a headache from thinking so much.....
I am however from this evening going to record the Mari Luz saga...in case it turns into a put up job by Metodo...I am convinced that Alberto Castellon is working for Metodo.....He has a blog....not sure if it is in spanish or english.....Try and look it up and see what you can find on the rat....
As always lovely to see you are still around....Take care plainxxxxxx

felicity said...

Hiya all

not feeling very chatty as Luke has to wait until Tues next week for ultrasound scan.

I was just looking at Rebelo on the other thread trying to open the patio door from the outside - I do not think this is possible - think about it folks ..no handle..not meant to be opened from outside and let me know what you think. I do think it is very significant that we have Rebelo himself wanting to see if this is even possible.

Viv x

Dolores said...

Viv/Ironside

http://es.noticias.yahoo.com/ep/20080121/tes-la-familia-de-mari-luz-darde-tregua-44b36e8_1.html

Apparently what the article is saying is that the family of Mari Luz Cortes have informed the police that they wish to hire a private agency in Barcelona to search for their daughter and have set up a ban account for donations If Mari is found all remaining monies will go find other missing children.There only appears to be 400 euros in the account so far.
Why are they being so blatantly obvious and taking the world for fools, who will not recognise the same tactics as the Mc's
This game with the public needs to be stopped.

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

Maybe the Retardos were very persuasive and Mari's family are doing it for the right reasons?

Luv Viv x

dolores said...

Hi Viv,
I am sorry, I should have made myself clearer, I meant M3 and Mc's in my last paragraph. Not the poor parents, who will do anything at this stage, for their daughter.

A prayer goes to you and your precious son.

xxx

eureka said...

Hi Viv, best wishes to you and your son, Most of the press today seem to print stories about the sightings of creepyman (only reported to Retardo of course). Only 'The Independent' seems to retain some dignity and hold back from the story, unlike the other money-grabbing rags. None seem to mention in the story about the creepyman appeal by the parents that they are in fact police suspects in the disappearence of the child, there's no balanced reporting. I would like everyone to bring this to the attention of the Press Complaints Commission. People can Google it.
It says it's an independent organisation monitoring British newspapers and magazines to ensure they adhere to ethical guidelines. Deals with issues such as inaccuracy, privacy, misrepresentation.
Why should people be misled in this way.

docmac said...

Anon, re your question earlier about the meeting at the hotel. Yes he was there.

We are due for a scheduled power outage soon, so I may not be on here again tonight. My PC won't be usable and the laptop is at work.

Regards to all who post here.

lmcg said...

Viv, I am sorry you and your son have a week to wait for a scan, what a worrying time for you both. I'm sure we all here will try to keep you busy with our postings! Not that I have much to say about it all at the moment but will keep surfing for any interesting info!

Lmcg x

sez said...

yeh great isnt it loving parent waits a week for very important scan for son but neglectful parents can have mortgage paid and lovely shiney new 4 by 4 on other peoples money. pays to be dishonest really dosent it.

Anonymous said...

To viv...keep chin up.

Thanks to docmac for reply and hope he was wired.
regards.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Sorry you have to wait until tuesday for Luke's scan, I hope all is well, one good point to that is that if they thought it really urgent or serious they would do it quicker?
How is he in himself is he feeling better? The De is not a nice place ot be right now, think its my turn to be picked on by Jane gt whoever she is....lol...still not going to be bullied.

Atardi said...

But Lizzy,

You did a very good Job!

Viv,

I hope your son is feeling better and that you will get great news next tuesday.

felicity said...

Hiya

Thanks for your kind thoughts. Apparently next Tue is an urgent appt! Taken him out for a meal - just got back - he is taking pain killers and not too bad thanks.

Sorry it is your turn to be picked on Lizzie Jane Gin and Tonic is a bit erratic!

Viv x

LIZZY said...

Hi Viv,
That is bad if he has to wait til Tuesday and that is an urgent appointment, I hope he is not in too much pain in the mean time. Jane gt or whatever her name is doesn't bother me really, am surprised she picked on me really as I only said Mrs Cooper star witness looks a bit like Mo from Eastenders, the Slater gran and she is a bit dodgy. Quite odd to take offense at such a flippant remark, unless of course she resembles either of them.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Can't remeber who said it on here earlier that we will probably hear of sightings of the cooper man in Heulva but Rosie from the De sugested same so give it a week and we will have positive sighings of him there, linked to the Spanish girl...I think I can see the way things are going... now.

lizzy said...

please excuse my typing im terrible

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

You have managed to make me laugh "cooper man" who was the comedian that used to do him?

I fear you may well be right - it seems quite certain the Retardos have been putting in an awful lot of work on this poor family. I hope they are not truly horrified at the prospect of Cooper man having their little girl as well but this is obviously possible.

Please do not worry about your typing I have not seen any mistakes - I make loads -particularly when I am trying to dash a long post out quickly - I notice words get all sort of extra bits added in the middle and words get bits missed off too - I hope people can skip by the errors and still guess what I am talking about.

I just read Rosie thinks I have 5 new personas TEE HEE ITS PARANOIA FOR THEE...... MADAME SINFUL ROSIE!

lUV YA (NOT ROSIE)
VIV X

Dolores said...

Hi Viv
http://www.itvlocal.com/yorkshire/news/

This is the live interview where N.Cooper is speaking from Rothley
Wonder if she was collecting her brown envelope. Watch the facial expressions and the eyes,she looks decidely uncomfortable at being questioned by the interviewer.I think if police questioned her at great length,she would trip herself up.What do you think?

Ironside said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvNkYRfQAv8

docmac said...

Ironside that video is hilarious! I can see that it may be similar to what happens in real life down Rothley way too.

I just poped in to both fora to see if there is anything new. Careful with Mum21 hey, it's not the same one as before. It's Mandz and Chinadoll. See last night's posts.

Kind regards to you and yours.

Dolores said...

Docmac g/morning
Did you see rp's post after you left she said ''The DNA control sample was given in August, He (Gerry) harvested it when he was asked by the PJ. This was when he waswhen he came over to UK. on a personal visit.''

Can she expect us to believe this garbage, they asked him to collect DNA.What next will she/he come out with !!

Some person called betty, asked me last night if I was rp.I couldnt reply as I was so insulted.

Dolores said...

Docmac g/morning
Did you see rp's post after you left she said ''The DNA control sample was given in August, He (Gerry) harvested it when he was asked by the PJ. This was when he waswhen he came over to UK. on a personal visit.''

Can she expect us to believe this garbage, they asked him to collect DNA.What next will she/he come out with !!

Some person called betty, asked me last night if I was rp.I couldnt reply as I was so insulted.

eureka said...

Well done to Docmac, your 12.04am DE post aimed at RS last night hit home. She replied later quite nastily and revealed a lot of stuff. She ignored me when I thanked her for revealing she is Aunty Ph. She's fiercely promoting the party line... lol. Regards

docmac said...

Hi Dolores!

I can't stay, as I earn a living by NOT posting on internet forums all day and night :-).

Yes, I saw that post. No way would Gerry be allowed to collect a sample himself. I had also asked what how it was proven that this 'sample' was actually reflective of Madeleine's DNA. To what would it have been compared?

If it indeed was supplied and analysed as suggested I have to question whether it may have originated from one of the twins. Then the 80%or thereabouts match from the car becomes really, really interesting!

Got to go, nice to see you. Have a fantstic day.

lizzy said...

eureka
Yes a lot was revealed when she got angry, she is clearly a relative of the gruesome twosome, who else would know so many details about them and defend such people so aggressively. They are disgusting people in my opinion the Mccanns, Clarence remarked they are buoyant by the fact that it has come out that 2 or 3 paedophiles were stalkiing the resort allegedly, how sick are they? Why would any parents be feeling buoyant by that news, most would be horrified. Just shhows that their only goal is to lose their suspect status.

docmac said...

Eureka hi, you caught me on the hop. Is it not revealing when questions are totally ignored?

Unlike my spelling mistake in the last post, have a fantAstic day too!

LIZZY said...

Viv,
Spotted this post by Fully Loaded - Mirror forum .. The PJ did not react officially to the sketch revealed on the press conference organized by McCann’s spoke-men, continuing several diligences in progress. The police force knows when and how Madeleine left the apartment, but also where she would have remained during the first days."

http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/ar.....a-luz.html
PJ did not react officially to the sketch revealed on the press conference organized by McCann’s spoke-men, continuing several diligences in progress. The police force knows when and how Madeleine left the apartment, but also where she would have remained during the first days."

http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/ar.....a-luz.htm
Mirror forum.

Ironside said...

Report: Madeline McCann's Blood Found in Parent's Rental Car
Wednesday, January 09, 2008


The international hunt for missing British girl Madeleine McCann took several new twists yesterday as the investigation appeared to focus more tightly on her parents.

Portuguese police moved closer to charging the parents Kate and Gerry McCann after demanding the mother's diary be seized as trial evidence.

Madeleine, 3, disappeared from a room in a Portuguese holiday resort in May while her parents dined at a nearby restaurant.

Blood found in a car hired by her parents weeks after she disappeared definitely came from the British girl, it was reported yesterday.

The Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manha cited police sources as saying new tests on blood found in the hire car conclusively showed it was Madeleine's.

"The definitive result of the tests leave no doubts for the Policia Judiciaria. The blood found in the McCanns' car is that of Madeleine as well as those samples detected in the flat," the paper said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,321415,00.html


Thanks Docmac did not realise...keep me informed I do not post there much now....so I miss the duplicate...posts...U2 is mark55 and Hugh...am I correct...
All is fine here..when the sun shines how can it not be...Weird whats going on in Huelva though....have you any thoughts....
Myself I think its Metodo and Alberto Castillon.....doing a scam...
It takes 2 1/2 hours to drive from PDL to Heulva....Jon Corner set his crew up there when they did that footage for Panorama....
Long way to drive each day....
I know it now appears to be a myth..kate asked if the borders had been closed....If there was someone there ...and they left...bearing in mind the drive
that could be another reason for delay in phoning police....to give that person time to cross the border into Spain....First thing they did here with Mari Luz was to close the border with Portugal, and every car was checked....

Ironside said...

Personne à Praia da Luz n’a vu l’homme que Clarence Mitchell, le porte-parole des McCann, affirme détenir la clef de la disparition de Madeleine McCann. Mais si à Praia da Luz, personne n’a vu le suspect, au Royaume-Uni la presse avance que plusieurs des témoins retrouvées par l’agence de détectives Metodo 3 ont, maintenant, le souvenir de l’avoir croisé. C’est le cas d’Isabel Gonzalez, Amanda Mills et Charlotte Pennington.

Isabel Gonzalez, espagnole, à dit aux detectives de Metodo 3, avoir vu Madeleine le 15 juin dans la ville de Zaio, au Maroc, "être traîné par une femme magrébine". Plus tard, elle revient sur ses déclarations affirmant que l’amie de Robert Murat, l’allemande Michaela Walczuch, étais aussi à Zaio avec Madeleine. Malgré le fait que Metodo 3 n’a jamais retrouvée la moindre trace ou piste de Madeleine au Maroc, Isabel Gonzalez affirme maintenant qu’elle aurait également vu un homme "très ressemblant" au croquis, le même jour ou elle avait aperçu Madeleine.

Amanda Mills, de Basildon, Essex, est le deuxième témoin récupéré par Metodo 3 qui reviens sur ces déclarations du mois de mai à propos du suspect : initialement la touriste britannique avait révélé avoir aperçu un homme mettre ses mains sur une poussette dans la terrasse d’un appartement de l’Océan Club, mais qu’elle ne saurait pas l’identifier car "il était tard la nuit, et l’homme étais dans un endroit non illuminé". Les faits se sont passées deux semaines avant l’arrivée des McCann à Praia da Luz mais Amanda Mills, qui n’avais pas jugé important de dénoncer les faits auprès de la police portugaise, a pris contact avec Metodo 3 car "elle voulait aider les McCann" admettant, à l’époque des faits, qu’elle "n'a même pas regardé pour voir s'il y avait un enfant dans la poussette".

"Un nord-africain ne passe pas inaperçu dans le coin "

Armés du croquis crée par Melissa Dring d’après les déclarations de Gail Cooper, la britannique qui aurait aperçu l’homme à trois reprises au mois d’avril, plusieurs journalistes ont parcouru Praia da Luz à la recherche de quelqu’un qui aurais pu voir le suspect décrit déjà par les tabloïdes outre-manche comme une "bête" et un "pédophile".

"Personnellement, si je l’aurais vu, je ne l’oublierais jamais", affirme Carla, 32 ans, en déclarations à la presse portugaise. Même son de cloche de Haynes Hubbard, le prêtre anglican, ami des McCann : "je n’est jamais croisé quelqu’un qui lui ressemble".

Au complexe Mark Warner, l’Océan Club, d’où Madeleine est disparue la nuit du 3 mai, le personnel, portugais et britannique, n’a pas le moindre souvenir du suspect : "il me fait penser à un acteur des années 70 mais je n’est jamais vu personne qui ressemble à ca… et vu le visage sinistre, je suis certaine de ne pas l’oublier", affirme une employée de réception. Au Tapas Bar les réactions sont les mêmes, touts les barmen et les serveurs ont affirmé ne pas avoir vu l’homme, soulignant qu’un "nord-africain ne passe pas inaperçu dans le coin. C’étais déjà le cas avant la disparition de la petite".

La Police Judiciaire n’a pas réagi officiellement au croquis révélé par la conférence de presse organisé par les McCann, continuant plusieurs diligences en cours. La police sait quand et comment Madeleine à été sorti de l’appartement, mais aussi ou elle aurait resté pendant les premiers jours.



Does anyone know how reliable SOS maddie.is ...It says here that PJ know how maddie was moved from the appartment..and where she was for the first few days....

docmac said...

Ironside

Myself I think its Metodo and Alberto Castillon.....doing a scam...

Is this article evidence enough?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=509685&in_page_id=1811

Ironside said...

Bloody bloggers Docmac...there wasting no time on this one...are they....where do you think this is headed..? are maddies remains about to be found....Only a fool would plan such a scam...the only ones who went to Heulva were the mccanns....PJ are already suspicious about this trip...they say there were two hours unaccounted for...

This is Bizzare....
Never trust a gypsy....if they are caught...they will sing like a bird....these are not the tapas..there is no honour amongst thieves,,,,

Anonymous said...

from Daily Express........

Former PJ inspector and now criminologist Francisco Moita Flores said the timing of the McCanns releasing the image was curious, coming only days before the McCanns dining companions are due to face further questioning.
He said, "This is maybe the most critical moment in the investigation. They know there is evidence that the girl died and we are on the eve of interrogating witnesses who may undo all the theories.

Ironside said...

Scully from MF..managed to find LOGICMANS theory about a hoax....they strange things that have happened in the last week..I think it is worth thinking about...



LogicMan



Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: The "Hoax" Theory....Madeleine McCann


I see that Bywaters has posted his theory about the McCanns being invovled with her murder......I do not believe this to be the case myself, and propose another theory to explain what we have seen over the last few months.........

it is a long read......sorry...

[u]I am not syaing this IS how it happened...I am saying this MAY BE how it happened........we may never know the truth.......[/u]

On the other hand........I think this offers some hope....as it suggests that Madeleine is safe and well....and the McCanns are certainly not murderers, or members of any peadophile rings, or child trafficing gangs.......

Still......see what [u]you [/u]think.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good Morning All...here is the latest version of the Hoax theory.....

I will be blunt...and not use too many "alldedgedlys".....just take the whole thing, as a possible theory...A story.......thats all..........

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I suggest to you. That the McCanns, and some of their family members, their friends, and possibly "business associates" FAKED the abduction of Madeleine McCann......in order to make money, gain fame and power, to be lifted to another social level...and have media careers on TV and around the world, as the Amazing McCanns...Child Detectives.........People of Faith, who work in a unique way...but which delivered a Miricle.....the reappearance of Mady (and a lot of cash and fame).......


The plan is simple.......

While away on holiday, the children will be left "un-attended" in the evening..and we will go to various resturants every night......build a pattern (create an Alibi).........then, on one night of the week, Madeleine will be "Abducted" by some of our friends, and business associates...maybe even "family" or the mythical nanny........she will be taken away and hidden around Europe or Afirca....

We will then proceeded to discover her "missing"...we will make a good scene out of it, convince the police she has been abducted...then get on with our plans for funds, rewards, internet shops, new businesses, media spots, Religious stunts, child welfare careers.........perfect.........and in a few monts/years time.....after millions have been put into the fund, and we are world famous Child Welfare Specialists (Maz will love all this)...............Mady will magicly "reappear"....and our unique way of working will be vindicated.....

For ever more, people will come to US if they want to find an abducted child...we can use our media profiles to keep cases in the news...we can make MORE money, by having concerts, and other media promotions, an internet shop, No Stone Unturned ltd.......this will be a life changing event.........

----------------------------------------------------

So what went wrong?

----------------------------------------------------

Well...to go back to that night......lets go into Madeleines bedroom with the twins..........Mady is not actualy in there.....she is in the neighbouring building already, waiting to be moved (she may be sedated)........however, the "Late for dinner Witness", is in Madys real Room in the McCann flat looking after the twins.........keeping an eye out for next door...to see when Mady gets moved and on her way.......

There is a bit of genius at work here........and damn good reason why no DNA from the "Abductor" was found, and why the Twins "slept through the Abduction"...........1. The Abductor was never in Madys real room......2. Most of the people "invovled" went into the real room before the police arrived, and destroyed the crime scene........and since they are "friends", their DNA would not be suspect........or distinguishable from an "Abductors"......

Next door, where Maddy really was...is another English person, a Man..........friend of the McCanns, maybe he is the partner of the "Witness" looking after the twins (Maybe this man is the mythical Murat?).............but whoever, Mady is with him......probably been there most the night......she is sleeping........they are waiting.....

They are waiting for a couple from the Solminar Flats about 3 miles away, to come pick and her up.......it will be the couple from the Solminar flats..and one other man, that take Mady to her "keeper".......the keeper, will be someone who will "look after" Maddy while the con is on.........it will be their job to keep Mady safe, out of sight....and to listen for the correct signals, so as to know, when to let her go...by leaving her in a church, something like that..........before legging it to a Swiss bank account......

I am not 100 certain about the people invovled, don't know there names...so can only geuss......but my geuss, is that the couple from Solminar, arrived at about 9:15......They got out of the car, and went to get Mady...the man staying with her, went WITH the couple from the Solminar flats, to help with any issues...most liekly, lifting a small sleeping child into and out of cars...... and possibly onto boats, WITHOUT waking her......

After this group had driven away from the Apartments....the "Witness" ....checked one more time on the Twins, and then went to dinner...late...very late...about 9:30......this was the sign, that all was clear.........

Mrs McCann waited as long as she dare, for her twins really are alone at this time, and she was about to embark of the scam of the new millennium.............after 15 mins, she can stand it no more.....and goes to "check" on Maddy, for the very first time that night.....and Lo....Maddy is gone.....and away we go........

As in the field of war....you can plan and plan all you like...but as soon as a shot is fired, the plans go out the window......

Things started to go wrong..........

For some reason, the Police were not called for 40 Mins...I suggest that the "Abduction" was running late, and so they wanted to give more time for the Abdcutors to get away.........so , they stalled.....and in that time, invited 20 people to search IN THE ROOM, thus utterly destroying "the crime scene"........not only this...but they wasted 40 minutes looking in bushes, and pools, and behind fences...when they KNEW she had been abdcuted???.....very odd.

Worse was yet to come though....when the Police finaly arrived at about 10:50, and started to ask questions......they could see no evidnce of what they were being told......Mr McCann was in a rage, he was shouting IT WAS AN ABDUCTION>>>>>>>SHE HAS BEEN ABDUCTED........but the Police, just don't see it........she could have just walked out and got lost?...Why is this man saying it HAS to be abduction......? And he says they were "checking" every half an hour...but they can't seem to get their times right????....Nothing seems quite right...no signs of breakin or abduction...parents and people can't agree on who checked when........And why did they leave their kids to go out and eat anyway??.....

Time to talk to the staff.........

The staff were immediately suspicious of the McCanns.....right away......and they said so to the Police in their mother tounge.....They said that it was odd that the McCanns had "firmly refused" the free babysitter service, already included in the price of their holiday and which they happily used during the day???.....just seemed odd....like they WANTED to leave the kids alone that night..we even offered them Walkie Talkies...and they said NO..............and also....that Mr and Mrs McCann did not get up all night.....she only got up once, at about 9:45-ish....and came back in crying "they've taken my baby" " Where is my little girl" (What she acutaly said here is immaterial to this theory)..........

A curious addition to this........Why did Kate leave the Twins behind?....If they KNEW Mady had been abducted, the Abducotr could have been hiding behind a door, or just coming back in for another child......why, after discovering one of her babys missing.........and while KNOWING it was abduction.....why did she leave the sleeping twins behind?

This made the cops suspicious..........Deliberately and wilfully left the kids alone...at night...in an unlcoked flat........and deliberately refused the baby sitter service???????........went out to eat, DID NOT check on them all night (as they had claimed every 30 mins)........except "once" when she claimed to have found her gone?.......But the McCanns just said they were checking every half an hour??????...Wha???......Something is not right here......

Next comes the Twins "Babysitter".....the "Late for dinner witness"........Why was she late? And what is this about her seeing a man walking with a bundle??.....she places HERSLEF at the crime scene, around the time of the crime...and "claims" she saw a man with a bunlde...but did'nt think anything of it??......(very convienient).........so.....a wtiness out looking after the kids, late to dinner.....sees a man and bundle...goes to dinner, says nothing...but 15 mins after she arrives...Mrs McCann gets up and goes to check for the First time that night..and lo....her child is missing?......Just Like That.....

But curiously.....Over time..this witness changes her story.........which actually is one of the biggest mistakes of the whole thing......Her story "evolves"......For one, Gerry McCann aledgeldy got messgae to Gordon Brown, that He (GM) was upset that the Portugese police had not released the "Late Witnesses" statement to the public......? Why...did Gerry think it very important?........Yet the PJ did not?.......Why Blub to Gordon Brown about it?.....Must be a real important part of the story to get out????....

Anyway....her description finaly came out into the Media...and seemed to grow...and before long, what was a bundle, has turned into a man, who is carrying a blanket, with what looks like a little girl with blode hair wearing Pink Pajamas wrapped up in it................??....Ooops...... It sounds like a line of flowing ********.....so we have to ask the question....Why/is she lying?.......Why is her story changing?.......again..they seem to "push" the Abdcution scenario....and evolve the evidence to fit it?...

I also suspect this "Late witness" was supposed to leave the room in a state of some disaray....and she forgot to do this....hence, we have stories of smashed/jimmied/forced shutters...."Obvious signs of breakin".......yet no evidnce of this that the Police can see.......(This "Late Witness" person was not a good one to ask to help in this caper)........

We then hear of reports of CCTV images........taken at a peterol staion 9 miles outside Praia de Luz......these images are described as "key" by Police, and appear to show 3 adults and a small blonde girl.......the adults look British, and consist of 2 men, and a blonde woman...........a blonde woman was reportedly seen outside the Holiday flats around the time of Madys disappearance........

The behaviour of this group of 3 adults, so concnered the staion operator, that he got in touch with police pretty much right away.....The 3 adults and "Mady" were at this time traveling in a Renault Cleo, Gray, with British number plates.........I suggest they were on their way to the "keeper"...who would take Maddy on a trip into North Africa, and maybe Europe......But was Maddy awake?.....and if so....oops? ((I will adress this "awake" theory and Murat in another post)).....But it is too late to go back now, Prai de Luz will be in Uproar, they will have to go ahead with it now........so, off they go to the keeper.....a man on a baot, ready to go to Morroco......

(This lead to Gerrys I believe Freudian Slip......"We fear she was taken out of Portugal and Abdcuted".......Sorry Gerry? Don't you mean, she was abdcuted, then taken out of Portugal?....... oops....

The police need to hear more of the McCanns story...they can't even pinpoint a time of Abdcution (They don't believe the McCanns), so have to use 10:40 as the time, as thats when they got the first call......Gerry McCann gets a lot of questions...and a chance to speak......and one event he speaks of, is a strange event a few days ago.........Gerry McCann says, that he and his family, were on a beech, some 10 miles away from Paraia de Luz.......when a man came up taking picutres of blonde girls......Gerry said this casued him some Alarm and he made issue with the man.......a passing Portugese Citizen took a picutre of this man, and chased him away.......sadly, his thumb blocked the shot of the "Beech Snapper", but he had got a good look........so the Police decided to investigate this line of Enquiry........my my...suspicious parents with dodgey "Abduction" story say they were stalked????...and a Patriot witnessed the scnee? We will look into this......and see what HE says.....

Around this time, the PJ got their hands on the CCTV footage from the Peterol station...and putting two and two together, asked the Portugese man to come in, and see if he could recognise the Beech Snapper, as one of the people in the CCTV footage....and he could recognise the man, pointed his finger right at him............which lead back to the Gray Renult Cleo............with British Plates.....

Police then ID where this vehical is, and see it is at some flats (The Solminar Flats) about 3 miles away fromt the McCanns holiday flats....the police do some investigating, but realise that the "Beech Snapper" is not one of the two people staying there....he must be someone else........and lo, they find just such a candidate......holidaying in Parai de luz...with the McCanns.......turns out to be the "partner" of the late to dinner witness, he is a dead ringer for the man in the CCTV footage......the "beech Snapper".......

So....We have parents who wilfuly left their kids alone......did'nt check on them all night......in fact the only time they checked, was 15 mins after the Late Witness finaly arrived (from doing what?).......

And now we have 3 people on CCTV that appear to be "related" to this case in some way...and also, related to the McCanns in some way.......after all, one of their "partners" was at dinner that night...late...but there......or was it Murat?....who knows at this time......

But...

Time for the PJ to think now...these people may be pulling a fast one, and we really don't know why......best play the game properly (Make believe) and see what they say.....so....The McCanns are invited to the police station to look at photos of peads, that sort of thing......and the other couples from Solminar flats, and the other couple staying with the McCanns (Are taken right off the beech still in their swimwear).......and taken into the Back of the Police station, under blankets.........

At this moment, the British Consulate is seen leaving the Police Station....the PJ have asked for his help..........

While these people are all there, they are asked standard questions about that night...nothing too agressive....lets just hear what they say, and then check for inconsistencies later.......however, we will run the CCTV footage, past the McCanns, and see what they say.........

When the McCanns see the footage, they "are not sure if it is Mady"........(The police are probably pretty damn sure it is but play along).......at this point, the PJ know they have a game on thier hands......and one at this stage, might cost a girl her life.............is this a hoax? they trying to kill her? sell her?...what is going on????

So they make believe......The McCanns are free to go.......as are their friends..........

The Police decide to watch and wait..........and ask for our assitance in speeeding the McCanns through the process...and if possible, can we use the Media to lull them into a false sense of security..as we need to trip them up, these people are clever.........Clarance Mitchell steps in, and the media gag goes into effect ont he 14th of May.........The media will be used (By Clarrance at the Requaest of the Portugese) to control the McCanns, the story, and the siuation...as we slowly work out the McCanns plan...........

The first thing Gerry does after this visit to the police station, is get on the phone to two £500 an hour QCs...he knows something is not right.......maybe he suspects just Neglect charges.......but suspect "something", he does.........so he gets the very best money can buy.....

Then the game is played......out of our eyes, but alluded to on the forums, on the ground in Portugal, games are played...the press is "used".........Times when the McCanns will be asked to make an emotional appeal with a new Mady phto.....but then 3 mins later, be asked to do family shots, all happy and smiles (Punch and Judy)....see how fast they could "turn it on and off"......and they failed......we have all seen the un-natural emotional ques from both parents...they are not acting "naturaly".........they are faking it..... And the police know it.........

In fact, one of the few Genuine emotional reactions we have seen was from Kate, when asked by the German reporter if she was invovled.....Kate looked scared, angry, and put "Cuddle Cat" (an object) bewteen her and the questioner...a CLASSIC sign of defence......this was seen by the whole world..and the PJ.....

Freudian Slips, Odd choices of words (overdraft), emotions that don't look right...or statements that don't sit right (shes lovely)........it all ads up......

Then of course there is "The Fund"...Something that would have been IMPOSSIBLE if ANYTHING else had happened to Madleine.......No sympathy if she walked out and got lost....no sympathy if you accidently killed her.....no sympathy is she got hit by a car after getting out....for the fund it HAD TO BE ABDUCTION!!!!....No other "possibility" would work........

The Fund?.......a personal piggy bank for Gerry...Utterly Unique on the face of this planet in Abduction or even Crime history..........the Victim of an abduction case...sets up a BUSINESS to collect "Donations"....???........where he can make himself boss, of a company called "No Stone Unturned".........where Millions are being thrown in......and he can do with it what he likes.......but of course, the Police notice one major thing......McCann is not spending ANY money on actualy getting his daughter back.....No PIs...No trips to sightings places.........he is only spending money, to make more money or cover his own ass......and why plan for "atfer the end of the official investigation"...does Gerry KNOW that the police will fail to find her?.....If so HOW???.......Or does he KNOW when Maddy will be returned?...He sure speaks like it...........if so HOW??.........the Police are pretty sure they know what is gong on now...but it is hard to proove....

So...we wait...and watch...and throw curve balls to see how they react...like Taking Toscano seriously, (But only after 3 weeks of waiting)....in the meantime, we'll see how the McCanns act toward him..........

We'll get a German reporter to ask one simple quesion, and see how they react.............no more press conferences, tell tale body language......

We'll go dig up a potentioal body, and see if they come with us, quivering in utter fear and horror as we work...or see if they go to meet friends at the airport.......

We will not let them take the twins with them, and see how they explain it away.......we'll suggest Gerry write a blog, and see what he writes...which turned out to be classic signs of "lies"............

We will watch and wait...............see what Gerry does with all the money...does he investigate? Or pamper himself? ......oops......

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I won't go any further than that...if anything is'nt 100% clear. this is the place to ask...or laugh.....lol.......

I will say, that this is just gleened from the press reports from BEFORE the 14th of may, when it appears the Gag order came down.......since then, we have had nothing to do with this line of investigation reported in the press....NONE.......However, we have had lots of McCann worship, and folloiwing them around, at break neck speed, as they whizz through their tour...but now, the end game.....

You see......the one thing that is going to bring Mady back......is when Gerry stops making money......for when people lose interest, and turn away, and stop donating, he has gone as far as he can go with that part of the plan.........When the press walk away, he then has to create MORE interest some how.....Lost Wallet? Emergency Action in an Airplane? Good for a few headlines....but nothing much........no...when the interest drops right off, and the money stops coming..there is still one huge payoff to come...Madys return.......the sooner she gets back, the sooner people will call it a Miricle.....and people will start funding us again, and they can say "We will use this technique for all other children of the world...send us your money, come to our site, listen to our Faith..and we will do it for you too".................

Now I understand what Sentimental Agent meant, when he said we sould turn our backs on Gerry McCann........Even the press are not supporting them day by day now........the wind has gone out of the sails......the Blog is not even "buzzing" anymore.....Gerry does his campaigning indoors now........the interest and money are slowing.........and I believe it is a deliberate act, to force Gerry on to the next logical step....the Miraculous re-appearance of Madleine.....flying in the face of every known crime statistic......... and a masterful stroke from the PJ......

I hope this is right, just for her sake..........

Thanks for reading, I know it was a long one...

lizzy said...

Hi ,
Well is possible except for the blood found in the hire car, and flat, I still think that she is dead personally, although if she did appear this would be correct.I would put nothing past Team Mccann as money seem to be the most important thing for them.

lizzy said...

ironside
I posted this on the DE this morning, well the part which says that the police know when and how Madeleine was moved and where she stayed for the first few days. I believe it might be true, after all we do not know what the Tapas1 person told them. He may have been promised immunity for his evidence.

Anonymous said...

Hoax theory..........so dogs are lying and there is no DNA evidence.

Anonymous said...

Lizzy I think docmac has already said that one tapas member was the undertaker.

Lmcg said...

Ironside just incase you didn't see this on the DE, very disappointing I am afraid.


IRONSIDE
22.01.08, 6:06pm

It was a very short report and nothing new was said, she sat at the table from where she saw him on the beach allegedly watching the children from the periphery and said he was quite cold to look at that was just about it. Although she did get a trip out to PDL for her efforts!

• Posted by: LMcG • Report Comment

lizzy said...

yes I know but he wouldn't be Tapas1 or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Anonymous said...

Think Tapas 1 is saying that the police wasn't called until ROB had completed his mission.

lizzy said...

do you think Tapas 1 would have had any knowledge as to where she was taken to in the first few days?
Just that sos madleine reported the police knew how and where she stayed for the first few days.

lizzy said...

has anybody heard if true Joan Copper is helping the police in Portgual with their enquiries?

Anonymous said...

Lizzy do you mean where the body was taken for the first few days.

Mrs Cooper just been interviewed on ITV news..........didn't see it all.....but wouldn't say she would be assisting the PJ.

Anonymous said...

Lizzy forgot to mention she was asked if she was caught between 2 enquiries and she answered yes.

lizzy said...

sorry am getting confused who was cuaght between 2 enquires? Mrs cooper?

dolores said...

Lizzie,Mrs Coooper was doing the interview from Praia Da Luz,The ITV presenter said they took her there.She only said the same as the statement she made in the newspapers.

Anonymous said...

Yes Lizzie Mrs. Cooper caught between 2 enquiries

lizzy said...

dolores,
Seems like a waste of money in that case if she said no more, but maybe this is just to show that ITV believe in her statement. I still find it odd that they are taking it seriously as it is not the Police stating this guy is a suspected abductor but the mian suspects in the case. This has to be a first.

Lmcg said...

Hi all, as the PJ aren't taking this sighting seriously have Retardo 3 actually got any power to do anything if they do find him. It has just occured to me that IF he does exsist and IF he is involved (and I do not believe either) what could they do once they found him? Surely they couldn't arrest him or force him to be interviewed?

Anonymous said...

http://www.kidnapping.be/maddie/maddie.html

extract.......Other disturbing elements will be disclosed soon when we have the green light. Maybe the charge will not be involuntary homicide but deliberate killing.

Apparently this belgian site is known for insider info.

Anonymous said...

Ironside...

http://www.helptofindmariluz.com

click international poster....is that Met3 telephone No.

lizzy said...

lmcg
Good point didn't think of that, Clarence made it sound as if he woudl be interviewed by Metado3 the fraud specialists and then if necessary the info be passed on to the Police. I don't think they will find this man but there will be numerous sightings around Heulva and this will prove according to Team Mccann that Madeleine was abducted and they are innocent.Its crazy.

lmcg said...

Lizzy, it has only just occured to me to be honest. They can't do anything anyway can they? This just confirms to me it is another red herring. I too have no doubt either that he will be spotted in Huelva at some time in the near future. It's a farce isn't it?

Ironside said...

Yes I am spitting nails....who put together the web site? A couple of gypsies from a run down housing estate? No there is someone behind this....these parents are scruffy,inarticulate and unphotogenic....Mccann 's name is all over this.....Next week we will have the bracelets...the T shirts have already been printed.....they were wearing them last monday....So we have the posters ...the badges ...the t.shirts.....Mari Luz went missing sunday,late afternoon....Monday morning they were sporting all three items....Mari Luz is somewhere safe and well...Of that I have no doubt....

lizzy said...

lmgc
Also whether the guy was an abductor or not, why should he come foward to be eliminated from the prime suspects enquiry, because that is all it is they are not Police. Or would Clarence try to make a citizens arrest?
It is like if I was burgled and had seen a dodgy guy around my area, holding a press conference asking him to come forward, is as ridiculous as that..they are all mad in my opinion. I also think Gorodn Brown is a gone guy, if this case is shelved, he will not get in at the next election, there is too much strong feeling. But surely he will be aware of public feeling.?

lizzy said...

ironside,
It may sound cynical, but I believe that Mari luz parents are working with Team Mccann and Metado3, this is so unlike how you would expect these people to behave, I think this has been concocted primarily to get the Mccanns off. That girl will be safe somewhere, she may even be sighted with toothman...nothign would surprise me they are determined to beat the PJ at any cost.

felicity said...

Hiya all - what an interesting read - thanks for helping me to keep track - as you know have been a bit pre-occupied with my son. We returned to the hospital tonight and were told the feeling was from two senior doctors who looked at him he has an infection in the tube and we need to give the antibiots a chance - he dismissed the dreaded C as highly unlikely so really glad we went.

Now back to the McCanns. Things do seem to be reaching fever pitch. My own view remains the McCanns are desperate. In order for LCN DNA to be conclusive three separate tests are done - fi they all give the same result that's it and that is what has happened. It is Maddie's blood in the hire car and behind the sofa. I am afraid I just do not rule out the dreaded M word in this case. I think the McCanns know that the return of the PJ for their FOURTH trip to the UK is now imminent. There is nothing our government could do to stand in the way of this - as it is being dealt with by Eurojust - they would have a lot of explaining to do. Neither is there any reason for them to do so - there is very serious offending behaviour here and the government will be making sure this matter is progressed - they simply could not cope with the alternative!

I believe Gerry, Ludicrous and Kate continue to desperately sway the public to, at the very least, persuade us to contribute to the legal costs. Remember, we hear nothing from Michael Caplan QC - who is a top criminal lawyer but extremely expensive. What the McCanns are doing may seem desperate and hopeless but what alternative do they have - confess to what they did and how they hoped to cash in and get famous (or at least Gerry certainly did). I think it is important that we hear of divisions in their relationship and choices as to how they handle matters - this is very predictable in the circumstances. Gerry would have sought to convince Kate that his way was best and she can clearly see that it is not - this would lead to some monumental rows between them given the immense strain they are now under.

The intention to seize the diary referred to below confirms there is a clear intention to prosecute the McCanns - remember they got the diary when the McCanns were out in August and already have a full photocopy of it - they need the original to be used in court.

PLEASE ALSO NOTE IT SAYS THAT THE EX PAT IS NOT MURAT BUT MAY WELL BE A FRIEND OF THE MCCANNS - THIS CLEARLY IMPLIES THEY HAD SOMEONE ELSE THERE HELPING THEM - "THE MAN SEEN MAY HAVE BEEN A FRIEND OF THE MCCANNS"

I am not forming a view on the Spanish case at yet until more details emerge - at present I choose to believe the parents but that view could change!

Viv x

The article that Ironside refers to above is so good I reproduce it here:

"Report: Madeline McCann's Blood Found in Parent's Rental Car
Wednesday, January 09, 2008

E-Mail Print Digg This! del.icio.us
The international hunt for missing British girl Madeleine McCann took several new twists yesterday as the investigation appeared to focus more tightly on her parents.

Portuguese police moved closer to charging the parents Kate and Gerry McCann after demanding the mother's diary be seized as trial evidence.

Madeleine, 3, disappeared from a room in a Portuguese holiday resort in May while her parents dined at a nearby restaurant.

Blood found in a car hired by her parents weeks after she disappeared definitely came from the British girl, it was reported yesterday.

The Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manha cited police sources as saying new tests on blood found in the hire car conclusively showed it was Madeleine's.

"The definitive result of the tests leave no doubts for the Policia Judiciaria. The blood found in the McCanns' car is that of Madeleine as well as those samples detected in the flat," the paper said.

Portuguese police have also reportedly cast doubt on evidence an expat Briton was spotted near the resort the night of the disappearance. They say Robert Murat, who has been questioned several times, maintains he was home on the night and that the man seen may have been a friend of the McCanns.

The McCanns - officially suspects in Portugal - reacted in fury to the claims.


Portuguese newspapers have already published what they claim are extracts from Kate's journal and say the diary is fundamental to the belief that the 39-year-old GP and mother-of-three was involved in the death of her daughter.

Passages are said to reveal a mother at her wits' end coping with three hysterical kids. Her twins, Sean and Amelie, were aged 2 when their sister vanished. Cardiologist Gerry, 39, is said to be portrayed as an absent dad happy to leave his wife to shoulder the burden while he relaxed on holiday.

Unsourced claims in the Portuguese media said police believed the child was killed in the apartment and her body moved in a car hired 25 days after she vanished.



In England, The Sun newspaper has reported the parents are depressed that again wild rumour and speculation is being presented as fact.

The British paper claims it is ridiculous to suggest Madeleine's blood was in the car because she was never in it.

According to Correio Da Manha, the police case against the McCanns consisted of sniffer dogs and that traces of blood indicate the presence of the little girl's body behind a sofa and in the trunk of the car.

Kate and Gerry have always maintained there are innocent explanations for DNA found."

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

Pleased to hear about your son it is allways worrying when something is wrong and we all jump to the worst conclusions..

I have just read Ironsides post that you reposted and had a thought...

Maybe they never found Madeleines blood in the hire car at all???

Maybe they found enough evidence of DNA elsewhere and fed this out to the press to make the McCanns feel that they were way off track with the evidence???

Make them feel a bit smug so they could trip themselves up???

A daft theory but dont know what to believe anymore..

If this little girl in spain is being used I dont think the world is a very nice place anymore. In saying that better she is than in the hands of a peadophile...

All very sad...

lmcg said...

Hi Viv, I am pleased that you have returned to the hospital and had your fears allayed a little. It must be so worrying for you both. I hope the antibiotics soon kick in and leave your son feeling better and you less worried. My son is only 4. Your worries have confirmed my suspisions that my worries will never end!

A couple of questions for everyone. Anon has posted here twice today quoting the DE article "we are on the eve of investigating witnesses who may undo all of the theories". Does this literally mean there are going to be interviews tommorrow? I haven't read this anywhere else?

In the article you posted Viv, could the expat being referred to be ROB or is it someone we would not associate with the T9?

Lizzy - re Gordon Brown, I have no idea what to think about there. If the government are involved in protecting the McCann's how could this be beneficial to the Government unless they are protecting an individual within the government? Surely whatever ties Gerry has with the government he isn't important enough for politcal involvement of such a huge scale?

Lmcg

hope4truth said...

lmcg hello did you cry over Vera (I did Jack broke my heart)...?

Re your last post I cant help wonder why anyone would want to protect the McCanns who are they??? They neglected their children and are being treated like royalty???

The DX headline today was all about them misleading the public but when I read it looked like the photofit was of a person the lady saw the week they were there not 11days before???

Very strange...

felicity said...

Hiya lmcg and hope4

Thanks for your kind thoughts - I do feel able to focus back on the McCanns now.

What we are seeing is the almost demonic determination of Gerry McCann to try and exculpate them in some way - his manipulative behaviour in intricate and complex. I think it pays to remember the PJs word - a complex jigsaw and they are gradually fitting the pieces. I think when we hear this story in court it will be intensely shocking and sensational and if we think the press have been having a field day so far I dont think we have seen nothing yet! Only after the trial will the press be allowed to report on the dark and devious personality of Gerry McCann and I think it will truly shock as to the sheer lies and manipulation this man has gone to. It really does make a mockery of some simpletons on behalf the gruesome twosomes claims e.g. mum 21 "well if they have the DNA that's it nice and simple why dont they charge them end of". What a sad little girly! This is a vast and very tangled web of lies, subterfuge and deceit and the police have an intense amount of work to do to unravel all of this. Why did Kate and Gerry need to go and see their friends in Amsterdam as part of their European tour (when they left Sean and Amelie). How was this going to help to find Maddie - what utter rot - I think it is quite possible these friends were, in some way, helping the McCanns. Perhaps they were setting up the sighting in Belgium? This lady was traced back to Leicester and was, I am afraid, yet another health care worker! Then, in the early stages we had the sightings in Malta - if memory serves there is a rich relative there. I think people need to just consider this for a moment and then understand the vast and complex international enquiries the police have had to make in this case - interpol, europol we know have also been involved. Collating and co-ordinating all this evidence will be a mammoth task and could not be completed in just eight months. The next step in the process is clearly interviewing the rest of the TAPAS but I wonder if we will get a surprise and find out that others in the UK are also to have the fresh evidence put to them? This could, for example, include other family members who seem to have got so closely involved - what of Philomena and John - has their behaviour been "all above board, honest and helpful to the police conducting a homicide enquiry into the death of a little girl" - I think not!

Sorry I do get carried away once I start! Going back to the article I re-posted from Ironside - if we look at the words carefully it implies friend of the McCanns - not that he is an ex pat. I am sure you have seen the picture I put up on one of my posts with Murat and Payne together - very clearly people could have mistook Payne for Murat - especially in poor lighting at night. Payne was obviously around. It is largely on the say so of Jane Tanner and three other TAPAS, including OBRIEN that Murat was put in the frame. My feeling is the police know damn fine he is not involved but saying so at this time would seriously compromise the investigation and Murat probably understands he will not be cleared until the McCanns and probably others are actually charged.

Clear as mud?

Luv Viv xxxx

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Pleased to hear that your son seems okay, well am glad it isn't anything too serious.
You must be feeling a little relieved now...meant to ask you, do you remember when it was stated that the PJ had one piece of stand alone evidence, wonder what that is? But maybe this is the reason they are so confident of being able to bring charges.

lizzy said...

lmcg not sure what Gordon Brown is giving so much support to the Mccanns it has been alleged there was somebody important from Government there that night who left hurriedly but that s conjecture, but could be as simple as he would not want to be seen as having such bad judgement as to have been supporting 2 people who might possibly be involved in the own daughters death and subsequent cover up. He wants to get in at the next election and it wouldn't look good. Obvioulsy we don't know exactly what has been going on, but they have definitley rceived well in excess of the normal support from the Government.

hope4truth said...

Viv

Clear as mud LOL...

The PJ would be stupid to try and charge these two (or more) until they have everything watertight lets face it a Father who says "find the body and prove we killed her" is not going to admit to guilt (if he is guilty)..

Then again if someone had to hall me back to my hotel because my neglected child had been crying for 2 hours I dont think I would be able to show my face in the complex for the rest of the holiday I would be so embarased that everyone knew what I had done...

After she was taken they still were not ashamed and made excuses which is what made me think very quickly she had not been taken...

Your picture of Murat and Payne (side view) hand on heart I thought payne was murat I showed it to someone at work and after she looked at it and said it was the other way round we had to go online and prove who was right (she was grrrrr) face on the look very similar but payne has less hair...

I think it is likely that it was Payne that was spotted that night and I thik that Murat is happy to stay an arguido as he knows he may be released from that status very soon???

Then again he is supposed to know them and if he helped in any way maybe he has told the PJ what he knows and he needs to keep his arguido status???

I wonder when they will be re questioned????

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzy

I obviously cannot say with certainty what that is but aside from some very powerful witnesses such as waiters, other residents, Wilkins and of course Mrs Fenn I have always felt the mobile phone evidence will be utterly damning. We heard that during the course of that evening Gerry sent and received 14 text messages. We have also heard that after the disappearance was reported he spent two hours on his mobile. We have also heard that the police have evidence that Gerry has lied as to his whereabouts at certain points in time. This they can clearly do by mobile phone triangulation where they can generally pinpoint within a few feet where someone was when they made or received a call. I understand there are a lot of masts in the area which makes the evidence even more precise. Remember we were also told the police had information regarding telephone calls and emails the TAPAS had made that made them suspicious. Technology like this is a nightmare for criminals. Mobile phone evidence sunk Huntley and I think it will sink the McCanns as well! I think it is quite possible the PJ know what all those texts say - and Gerry would have been texting with OB in particular that night as Doc calls him "the undertaker". I do not believe the Mcs have a cat in hell's chance of getting away with this now. The more lies Gerry tells that can be demonstrated as lies the deeper he has dug that hole for himself. His own unrealisic belief in his ability to con is the undoing of him. Lies always convince of guilt in a court room. The reasoning is very simple if you were telling the truth and not seeking any cover up then you would not lie!

Luv Viv x

lmcg said...

Hi Viv/Hope

I am getting so confused with all the details of this, I wish I was as articulate as you Viv in writing down my thoughts. I think of something I must post while I am cooking tea, for example, and when I sit at my PC I have forgotten what I wanted to say. Maybe I should keep a notebook round my neck! I agree the PJ must have evidence against the McCanns, it is not as you so clearly point out Viv just a simple case of charging them. They have spun an intricate web and it will take a an awful lot of time untying it. I think what we will eventually find out will shock us to the core and it won't be just the deceit of Gerry and Kate.

It has been implied the government are protecting G & K in someway, what could be the possible motives for this, potentially damaging our country's good relations with Portugal?

Good to have you back on form Viv! Or should I say "onaclearday"!(I am joking) U2 was getting himself in quite a flutter about this this afternoon. Onaclearday did post a link to your blog though Viv so they must be reading!

Hope yes I did cry - the way Jack put her shoes back on and made sure she was comfortable and when he was with the pigeon!

Lmcg x

lmcg said...

Hi Lizzy, yes Gordon Brown did personally speak to Gerry on the phone following Madeleine's "abduction" didn't he? Could be he is distancing himself. Surely though the best thing for him to do now though (and to maybe win back voters) would be to offer our government's complete faith in the PJ and their investigation and offer what help neccessary to bring the perpretators of this crime to justice. He just seems to have hidden himself away surrounded by a wall of silence instead. Good one Gordon!

Lmcg x

hope4truth said...

LMCG

You have me laughing now maybe we should all buy little police notebooks LOL know what you mean I think of things and cant remeber it or when I write it down I go all round the houses and still dont manage to say what I mean...

Yes even my husband who walked out the room when it started watched from the door way and said it was really sad. Jack was brilliant real emotion I was trying not to sob out loud and then he went out to the pigeons and I was gone...

I am off to bed speak to you soon...

felicity said...

Hiya Hope4

I only saw your post after I replied to Lizzy. I agree the PJ would have been stupid to rush in and charge purely on the basis of the forensic evidence. There is so much criminal behaviour and others to investigate it needed a great deal of investigation. Gerry is a clever man and he has "masterminded" all of this. Having said that he has made some quite pathetic mistakes. The PJ are quite obviously not stupid - they are a highly professional and intelligent bunch working with the British officers to crack this case and there will have been an absolutely huge amount of work done to make this case water tight and all charges that are possible on the evidence they have stick - beyond a reasonable doubt. The more they investigate I believe the more they find - it would have been like opening a can of worms. Until they can put a clear and cohesive picture before a court they will not charge this couple and it will take just as long as it takes. In terms of this sort of investigation 8 months is a very short period of time - two years would be more the norm when the police are up against a clever psychopath - how long were they investigating Shipman - I know there were many more deaths - but his modus operandi was always similar. Officers really have to get inside the heads of the person they are investigating and try to think like they think - when you have someone who thinks in such a bizarre and perverse way that is not easy. This is why they are always assisted by psychiatrists, psychologists, profilers etc to help them get feel for what this sort of person is capable of and how their mind works. Here we have two complex characters to try and understand and work out what roles they both played. That is not easy. You know what my own thoughts are but I admit I could be wrong and Kate could be far more culpable than I suggest that she is - that is purely my own view. There is a lot about her own behaviour that is bizarre and inexplicable.

But Gerry gives us the best examples of some with a very disordered and criminal mind - cited by you "well find the body and prove we killed her". This is a parent with no love or empathy for their child. Very difficult for ordinary mums and dads to understand and quite horrifying.

I entirely agree with what you say about having to be hauled back for leaving the children alone and crying. Putting myself in that situation I would hang my head in shame - avoid everyone for the rest of the holiday and certainly never leave my kids alone again for a second - but what did these two do - their behaviour is so often so far beyond the range of normal decent parents - cruel, wicked and shameless. They have continued to demonstrate they have no shame by their constant entreaties in the press proclaiming their innocence and trying to accuse anyone who may have been in the area of carrying out an abduction which the evidence confirms just simply could not have happened. Still they shamelessly argue and protest - it is really sickening.

I am sorry that I ever doubted Murat. I have a firm belief in the police and so initially, due to him being made an arguido I reasoned then they must have good evidence against him. But, as it unravelled it turns out they have what would appear on its face to be good evidence - the word of British doctors. We came to realise they lie on behalf of the McCanns which is wicked when they prevent justice for little Madeleine - I just do not know how they can live with themselves - presumably they reason - in a very distorted way - well it s too late for Madeleine - she is dead but Kate, Gerry and the twins are not - why should they all suffer? This is very wrong - any couple who can kill and conceal the death of their child need bringing to justice and should not be left in charge of other children under any circumstances. The fact they still have the twins has always caused me great concern but we do not know what steps the Social Services have taken to ensure their welfare and I am sure they have - this would of course remain confidential.

What really convinced me in the end that Murat was innocent was the constant unfair attacks on him by the drones on the Daily Express and of course coming directly from Team McCann as well. I had thought initially he must have helped in disposing of the body, but I reasoned why would the McCanns attack this man if he had done this - surely this would anger him and make him drop them in it - so I just dont see how he could possibly be involved at all. The McSpin has, as ever, only gone towards convincing us of their guilt and Murat's innocence.

I am going on again - this is becoming a marathon, so will stop and let someone else get a word in!

Great to hear both of your views which has obviously got me thinking!

Cheers!

Love Viv xxx

lmcg said...

Hi Viv, if you want a laugh see Rosie 12.03. They are so bothered by your blog!

Lmcg x

lmcg said...

I am sorry to post again Viv, I am laughing so much! I have just reread it. Apparently you cut and paste our posts!!! That women is seriously deluded and quite possibly disturbed. Oh my god! X

felicity said...

Hiya again both

I did read Huge suggesting that I was not just Viv and Felicity - which of course I am but several other manifestations including Plain and onaclearday. Rosie has said the same telling onaclear not to address her because she does not want to talk to me - he he heeeee. I love to read of their complete paranoia - if there were bothered about my blog I wonder what they will think of my last couple of posts! I think it is also the interest it has attracted - they have repeatedly sought to suggest that all I am doing is talking to myself - they know they cannot really maintain that one now.

I am going to be grab a cuppa and will then have a look at Rosie's 12.03

As Arnie would say - watch out Rosie I will be back - just a few mins in fact. Enjoying the chat with you both !!

Luv Viv xxxxxxxxx

felicity said...

Hey LMCG please dont apologise about posting - that is what I want you to do!

POST AWAY I AM HERE TO STAY AND PLAY..... KEEPING THE MCNASTIES WHO WOULD SEEK TO PREVENT JUSTICE FOR MADDIE AT BAY!

Sorry I never was much cop at poetry but still like to do the odd silly rhyme when I get a flippant one on..and Rosiepips...brings out the flippant in me - she can rant and rave just as much as she likes but those two are going to court and going to jail!

:-)........

lizzy said...

LmcG
Yes I agree and hope that he does this. I think the questioning can't be too far away now. Hopefully not anyway.

lmcg said...

Viv, don't apologise for your poetry either but please don't make me laugh anymore, Rosie has done it enough for me tonight, you know when your stomach hurts because you have laughed too much! I had decided not to go next door, as I call it, I have 2 tabs going and flick from one to the other, but my curiosity got the better of me. I am so glad I did! Better comedy couldn't be made up!

xxx

felicity said...

Hey LMCG

I am back! Well you just cannot beat a good side splitting belly aching good laugh can you?

Tell you who had me howling last night on the DE theydudit or something like that and he has the most ridiculous big eighties hairdo clearly ripping the p**s out of that photofit - his comments are real good too!

Just going to get to that 12.03 now to quote Rosie herself 'you just could not make up what she writes and she is priceless'. Since I ripped the ....about her being HelenM and Anee those two seem to have disappeared - I do hope I did not hurt her feelings!

ROFling nicely...

back in a min

viv x

felicity said...

Hiya again

I only been on the DE two seconds and started crying with laughter at this one below - I tell you what I is well flattered they think I am clear - he/she is flippin fuuny"

Watch it Rosie because seriously you know the days of the PJ ignoring Kate and Gerry are running out...if you wish for something enough you usually end up getting it - right where the chicken got it!
---------------


WELL ROSIE YOU COULD ASK GERRY
22.01.08, 11:14pm

"I wonder how many more witnesses are going to come forward and report these sightings and also report that they have been ignored by the PJ?

• Posted by: Rosiepops • Report Comment"


How many more can he afford?

• Posted by: onaclearday

lmcg said...

I saw theydudit's aviator, made me chuckle too. Ned had a good one too but he has changed his to eggman, even better what a good way to make a point. Should think it has gone over Rosie et al head, far too subtle for them! x

lmcg said...

I missed that one Viv, I only went in at midnight and didn't bother to go back. Hilarious, Clear clearly rattles Rosie, that is the whole point of them being there isn't it? The last post was great too. Going back now to see Rosies response, if there is one!

felicity said...

Hiya Just need Nedd's ROFLING

This is Miss Maudlin Mastermind at her priceless best:

BETTY
23.01.08, 12:31am

I would imagine they could ask Interpol to step in !



• Posted by: Maureen7


Well Yes Indeed they could but I can just imagine what Interpol would tell them to go and do!

Oh yea this is the chap who was walking on the beach and knocked on someone's door.....How Very Dare He!

Viv xxxxxxx

lmcg said...

Don't forget he was walking on the beach in the rain. That will make all the difference to Interpol.

Lncg xx

felicity said...

Hiya LMCG

Yes good point there ..no doubt having forensically analsyed this piece of utterly bizarre behaviour they would have to draw the adverse and very incriminating inference that the snidey long haired git with a tasteless and criminally old fashioned moustache and teeth he really ought to sue the dentist for was "casing" the beach...

Viv x

PS Got to Rosie's 12.03 at last... how does she know what's going on here if she never looks at it - cant work that one out..they all seem to be going to bed early tonight..probably got to pop off for an extraordinary boloo ooops I mean meeting with the two bozz men..Kate refuses to get involved apparently - boys and their toys..

lmcg said...

I said I had had too mcuh laughter for one night!!! "Tasteless and criminally old fashioned moustache and teeth" got me that time. Yes everyone seems to have gone to bed at the same time tonight. Looks like bratzdoll is on the night shift and she is taking in Budda. Good luck to her I say!

Lmcg x

felicity said...

bratzdoll - that one seriously got me just cant stop laughing bless you I can hardly type!

luv ya
vivxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

lmcg said...

I meant taking on Buddha not in Buddha! It's just the two of them head to head. I should be going to bed but I am intrigued and can't stop looking. Bratzdoll quite apt really isn't it? They are so horrible won't even let my daughter have one!

Luv ya too Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya LMCG

I will go and watch the show then - do you mean there are really such things as bratzdolls? Well we know where there is one anyway and if that is anything to go by I certainly would not let your daughter play with her - think of all the gobby lip she would pick up and she would be wanting to pick a fight with anything that moved!

Luv Viv xxxxxx

lmcg said...

Goodnight Viv. Looks like it's all over next door. Just making me laugh again. Clear calling Lazuras "Yoo Whoo Lazurus". What a night!

Not forgetting Justice for Maddie. See you tommorrow xxx

lmcg said...

Hi again our posts crossed! Yes they are real play dolls, disgusting things although I wouldn't think they are as bad as the "doll" we get over on the DE. Wasn't she the one who really upset and spooked out Hope4you one evening? Nasty piece of work. A definate Mcspam!

Lmcg xx

felicity said...

Hiya LMCG

Clear has been on top form - what so Madeleine can get a decent burial? and yes yoohoo Laz!

Chinadull/McMandz/Bratzdoll is the one that really upset Hope4 - thoroughly nasty little piece! Combative with other posters but never has anything worthwhile to say - but there again what could one expect from a very dull little doll!

Nite Nite
Luv Viv xxxx