23 Jan 2008

DIVERSIONARY TACTICS - MCCANNS WARNED IN SEPTEMBER

As the extract from the Telegraph article 26/9/07 below confirms a senior judge warned at that time their diversionary tactics in employing private investigators could see them charged with obstruction of justice.

They have gone a step further than that now by actively pursuing their own "suspect" in Portugal. It would serve them right if this also gets added to the list of charges they should face.

They have no right to behave in this way by pursuing a man who has clearly done nothing wrong.

It could be said that if this man actually exists, they are placing him at risk of serious harm, by suggesting he has kidnapped Madeleine - this is all the vigilante type need to hear to take the law into their own hands as the McCanns are clearly doing. Their behaviour as prime suspects in their daughter's death is outrageous. I urge the PJ to do more than simply criticise their conduct.

Viv x


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/25/nmaddy225.xml
Meanwhile, Mr and Mrs McCann were accused of employing “diversion tactics” by hiring private investigators to help find their daughter.
A senior judge warned that the move could see them charged with the obstruction of justice.
Under Portuguese law, it is illegal to carry out independent inquiries into a case while a police investigation is ongoing.
But it emerged this week that Mr and Mrs McCann have been in close contact with Control Risks Group – which specialises in kidnap, hostage and crisis management - since the end of May.
A source close to the couple’s legal team insisted the company was only working in an advisory role and not present on the ground in Portugal.
But Control Risks, and other independent private investigators, are thought to be focusing on Spain and Morocco.
Antonio Martins, president of the Association of Portuguese Judges, said private investigators were not legally recognised.
“It is still up to the state to carry out criminal investigation,” he told the Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas.
“That kind of activity has no legal standing.
“Anything that results from private investigation has no substance.”
Mr Martines said these investigators and even the McCanns themselves could be accused of “obstruction of justice”.
Carlos Anjos, the head of Asfic, the Portuguese equivalent of the police federation, was equally damning.
“This can only be another diversion tactic from the McCanns,” he said.
“It’s another strategy by the couple, who today say one thing and tomorrow something completely different.
“Private detectives who intervene in criminal cases cannot exist.”
Today, reports of another sighting raised hopes that Madeleine was still alive.
A Spanish woman claimed she saw the four-year-old with a Muslim woman in the town of Zaio in the north of the country at the end of May.
She said she was sure it was the little girl when her hat blew up in the wind, clearly showing her face.

74 comments:

Ironside said...

Everybody leaves the restaurant, except Dianne Webster.
10.05 Dianne Webster goes into Maddie’s room. The twins are sleeping.
According to Felicia Cabrita (on TV 10/9) diane, the mother of one of the payne's, the old lady in the group, when got to the apartment and kate was saying the window and shutters were open, went to the window from the outside and tried to lift the shutters. Impossible. They would not move. The staff explained that the shutters have already 14 years of sun and rain and they were not possible to open from the outside without breaking.
10.11 That Sky had been given access to the kidnapping before the Portuguese police was confirmed by a police source:"Someone within the McCann circle phoned from the Ocean Club the night of the crime to Sky News' representative in the Algarve. The call took place at 22.11. We were warned of the disappearance at 22.40." http://tinyurl.com/3atagq


Taken from the3arguidos....

Diane Webster tried to open the shutters for herself according to this report...She knew kate was not telling the truth....Why has she remained silent?....

Anonymous said...

Someone on Mirror F saying the PJ are here..............another poster saying no, it is a small delegation from prosecutors office as Home Office raising objections and difficulties.

ironside said...

http://picasaweb.google.com/svsport/Soc ... 2218155106

when asked how they feel on a sighting of madeleine....I could wipe that smirk right from his chops

ironside said...

Hi Anon.....Can we believe either...this is driving me crazy....I feel as though I am on a merry go round and want to get off....But the bloody thing wont stop....

Anonymous said...

I know how you feel Ironside, very frustrating...just want these interviews to take place....then maybe charges to follow. ...Even docs sources have dried up, which gave some hope that things were moving in the right direction.

Anonymous said...

Ironside....sosmaddie saying McCann fund not paying for search of Mari Luz....also warning from police about PI's interfering in their business.

Dylan05 said...

Good morning all,

It's been a very busy week so far and I've barely had time to catch up.
Some new posters on DE. TracyJamy is very good and doing well at keeping the pros at bay. TracyJ, if you are reading on this sight - well done, A* and a sticky gold star for you! G&T was put in her place with no hesitation.

This latest McSpam ploy has sickened lots of people. The public are now catching on to the McTactics in droves. This has spawned the most outrage i have seen since September - and rightly so. The public worm is turning so fast now that it has ripped a hole in the fabric of sympathetic pro-opinion and the Mcs have no one to blame but themselves. My husband doesn't/won't discuss the case with me at all (not because he's a pro) but even he has said recently that he is disgusted.
If cooperman actually does exist, I feel really sorry for him. Not only does he have to live with his looks being a bit dodgy (what defines dodgyness anyway?) but now he is paraded as a dirty link to paedophilia for all to see in sketch that has been made to make him look horrible.

Just a thought, why the scowl? I would have thought that if he was peddling for charity, surely Mrs Cooper would have seen him with a smile on his face? Why portray him looking so mean? That in itself is eveidence of the way the McCanns hoped to sway public opinion. It appears that they have deliberately sharpened his features and expression and it's worse than sending a subliminal message that advertising was banned from doing. We should complain to advertising standards!

HOW, BUT HOW, COULD THE McCANNS SAY THEY FEEL BUOYED BY THE THOUGHT THAT A PAEDOPHILE MAY HAVE TAKEN THEIR DAUGHTER?? I am stunned and shocked beyond belief. It makes me feel sick to the core.
----------------------------------
Ecolab, hope you come back too!

Ironside, Lizzy, anon, Doc,Rat,Plainwaters....some very interesting posts. (and anyone i may have missed)...thank you....

& dear viv, hoping very much that all's ok with luke next tuesday. It must be horrible to have to wait but I'm sure there's a million harmless things that could be wrong with him (besides the pain and i hope it's eased now). Good luck, and carry on spoiling him. You're a great mum.

Dillie x

dolores said...

Viv/ and all
The mirror forum has been shut down,due to abusve posts against Mc's.
Wonder if DE is next.I have the feeling that charges might be imminent.
What do you say?
Can they do this to you Viv?

Anonymous said...

THE MADDY FORUM AT THE MIRROR HAS BEEN PULLED DUE TO PERSISTENT ABUSES TOWARDS FELLOW POSTERS AND THE MCCANNS!!!!! WELL DONE CLARRIE

Anonymous said...

Dolores...sorry must have been posting at same time.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Have just discovered the Mirror forum has been shut down, before it was though I read that the prosecutors reps are here for meeting with the home office.
It said there with difficulties getting permission for the questioning? What do you think is going on?

eureka said...

As Mirror Forum thread seems to be closed, here's another interesting forum with no poster abuse like the 3As.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=a28391a3858c0e918bfe72efc30abc4e&daysprune=7&f=129

Enjoy.

dolores said...

anon.. lol no problem. I feel something is about to happen. Do you?

Anonymous said...

Hopefully Dolores..........but read this thread re. Law and McCanns...feel rather disheartened now.

http://the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1681

docmac said...

Mirror forums pulled? Claris did make the threat. Could it be that the Mirror has been served with a writ? Wow, so much for free speech. I'm sure that while the DE forum exists, there will be PLENTY new posters tonight! I will be back later.

Sorry, hello to you all :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi docmac most of the posters have migrated to the 3 arguidos forum

100's online..............

Read the thread posted above on the Law and McCanns.

In need of some sources.

dolores said...

Anon... I read the post, you sent, It would be a dreadful injustice to Madeleine if whoever is responsible for her demise is not brought to trial.I would have no faith in our law, if that is the case, that criminals can walk free from their crime.Many cases of henious crimes are discussed before trials, you hear and read about it all the time,it does not stop a fair jury being selected, if indeed it was held in UK.
And also there are other charges to be considered ie., perverting the course of justice, disposal of a body, fraud, and deception to the world.
I am sure our dear Viv will correct me if I am thinking the wrong way.

Anonymous said...

Yes Dolores it would be a terrible injustice....Seems like there may have been a method to Clarries gaffs....could the Government be orchestrating events.....See what viv has to say.

eureka said...

Fair trial may not be a difficulty as there are precedents. Both Michael Jackson, and OJ Simpson received jury trials despite worldwide adverse publicity. The current Sussex prostitutes murder trail has a jury despite much publicity a year ago. But with a year of responsible quiet press following charges, demanded by the justice system, before the trial takes place, the trial is currently going ahead. Jurors would fill out a questionnaire before being selected to ensure they are not biased. There are always ways to ensure people don't escape justice.

felicity said...

Hiya Ironside

re your first post -

I believe the reason for Diane Webster remaining silent is that she will be a prosecution witness. She is also a law abiding lady. Portuguese law clearly provides that witnesses and suspects must remain silent. Good for her I say! Just like Mrs Fenn this lady will not talk to the press or anyone else - they are saving it for the court room..

Wow about the Mirror forum closing down to abusive behaviour!

Will read the rest now.

As ever thanks for your great contribution!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Dillie

Thanks for your kind thoughts and great post.

We are all stunned that the McCanns oculd feel bouyed at the prospect of a paedophile having taken Maddie. This is what they want the public to believe and demonstrates as ever their self-interest in putting forward an alternative explanatiion as to what happened to her that does not involve them. We know for a fact they are involved - what a horrible pair. I wonder if they seriously consider the public reaction prior to putting all this spin into the press.

Dolores - if the McCanns are charged I would have to be careful, I think, about what gets written on this site. At present, I am grateful that people are behaving reasonably by not going into repulsive detail as Rosie and Laz so frequently accuse us of - whilst doing so themselves!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Eureka

You make a really good point - it is the reporting of details once there are charges that lands the press into hot water for contempt of court. It is at that stage there would have to be much greater restraint. At this stage the McCanns can hardly complain when so many of the stories emanate from them! Even Kate's own mother clearly implied she was losing her mind in two articles given to the press!

Viv x

felicity said...

Hi all

I have sometimes read the Mirror forum and been truly shocked by what I have read - I do not blame them for shutting it down. They would certainly have to do so given the nature of the comments once charges were made and I do not think that is so far off! The Mirror have been hit with some hefty fines for prejudicing court cases. There was a trial of some footballers who had carried out a vicious attack. Thanks to the Mirror the trial collapsed but there was then a re-trial - it did not stop justice! The Mirror got hit with a hefty fine - they will be wanting to avoid doing that again.

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
I was amazed to find this press conference was even aired,IMHO it should never have been accepted that two criminals who are suspects in their daughter's disappearence, can be allowed to carry out their own detective work,and hamper an ongoing investigation.
They are thumbing their nose to the law,and appear to be getting away with it.Is this what makes them so arrogant than no one is warning them of the consequences?
Unless of course PJ are being so clever and giving them this rope to hang themselves, and can add this to the list of charges.
xx

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Have read an opinion that the Mccanns will never face trial due to adverse publicity in the case? Is this true, as I know you are a law expert? I ask as there has been trials of people previoulsy who have had adverse publicity but then they have not been backed publically by the Government.

Dylan05 said...

Hi Viv,

Thanks and i agree, it does very much point to self interest in as much in "ooh, an opportunity to milk to let us off the hook". There's no thought for maddie there & IF there was an abduction, i'm sure this is the last scenario they would want to imagine having befallen their child. I can't even bear to think about and it's not my child. Horrible, horrible.

Delores,
please excuse my comment on a question aimed at viv -
Re the PJ giving them enough rope etc., i think you may be right.

Ever since the investigation took a more serious turn with bringing in the top brass, it has felt like we have been starved of news. The pros tend to read into this that it is because there is no evidence.
I think the lack of leaks and the silence is to the contrary. I think that they are very, very close and that is why we are kept in the dark on this. It's almost like a volcano that is about to blow....first you get a few shock waves, some rumbling, maybe some hot ash is ejected but in the time just before the full explosion, the mountain becomes silent..

I think they are now quietly confident and i just hope, as has been said, that they will be charged and tried because it now appears that they may not because of the notoriety of the case being such a high profile.

Here's wishing that this is just the lull before the storm. The Mcs are making a spectacle of themselves and it's not a very pretty one at that!

All - i felt an urge to reply to a pro this morning, wait and see, I may just get brave enough tomorrow!!! ;-)

hope4truth said...

Evening All

Lizzy Huntley the Wests Beverley Allit and Dr Shipman had terrible press when they were arested and all of them went to trial without any help from the gov.

Not that I want to read all about the McCanns and what they get up to but when the above were accused the papers were full of story's about their past.

This has made me wonder why they wre treated like VIPs instead of child neglecters from day one...

I know their child is missing and they would be handled gently as to not put them under any presure but the amount of mothers sent to jail because their babies died of cot death are grieving and are not treated as special cases when a lot of them like tragic Sally Clarke are inocent...

I think the Gov are in for a huge shock if they continue to protect the two of them let justice take its course there may be no evidence and they will be found not guilty or there may be evidence to show they are guilty then they must be treated like any one else..

Which makes me ask again who are they???

Cláudia said...

So, the Mirror forum has been sut down? Could this mean that charges are imminet or is it the opposite, the cover up is under way?

hope4truth said...

VIV

Tell me to keep my nose out of your excelent blog but....

When I come on I am not sure if people are still here or when they posted so would it be a good idea to put the time we post at the bottom of our message (even if just some people did it we would have an idea of the time)...

Or am I being a Numpty again and the time is on here somewhere???

Hope 20.58

docmac said...

Anon, if you are here I have heard something finally. I can not repeat it here either in part or in full as the details are too shocking to contemplate and I have no intention of pre-empting or jeopardising any legal process, especially as these fora and blogs are read by some who have malicious intent. By that I mean they wish to disrupt the legal process.

Suffice to say it has been confirmed that poor wee darling Madeleine is never going home :-(

I am too upset to post again today, so goodnight to all of you.

JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE!!!!!!!!!!!

ironside said...

Docmac...Hi Have just seen your very sad post...Thanks for posting.....although it was not to me...you know that I have the deepest respect for you...I just wanted you to know that,,,my best wishes to your family....

Anonymous said...

Thanks doc and do take care. Hope justice will be served.

Anonymous said...

Have had to return here as I feel rather concerned for docmac, I do hope he will be OK.

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

I do agree the McCanns are very arrogant and do seem to thumb their nose at the law. In addition to seeming to pursue their own criminal investigation whilst being the prime suspects themselves they also repeatedly demand details of the prosecution case before they are even charged which just does not happen. Also they sought to present their case to Gordon Brown and others ignoring the separation of legal powers in the UK. This is historical and fundamental to our unwritten constitution. The House of Commons is the legislature bringing new law into being overseen by the House of Lords, the Executive consists of the Prime Minister and Cabinet answerable to parliament and the judidiciary hear evidence and apply the law. What the McCanns and presumably Mr Smethurst was seeking to do was ask members of the Executive to do the job clearly allocated to the judiciary - hear evidence and ajudicate upon a criminal case. Never before have I heard of such a couple who seem to think they can even demand the law gets re-written for them. Gordon Brown would never be daft enough to usurp the power of the judges by performing their role. The McCanns will be dealt with in accordance with the rules much as they dont like this. In relation to obstructing the course of justice by pursuing their own criminal investigation - the Portuguese appear to have adopted a dismissive attitude towards this - it will not change the evidence against the McCanns or stop the due process of law. Once they are charged their lawyers will be able to apply for advance disclosure of the prosecution case so that they can start working on their defence. What has been so odd about the McCanns is that they want to be playing out their defence in the press long before there are even any charges. I think this is not only unconventional but a big mistake. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. They are only strengthening the prosecution against them by letting the police know what their answers will be and constantly giving the police further matters to investigate them for and potentially charge them with.

I believe that Mr Smethurst and Clarence are just not up to the job and really dont know how much harm they cause - the police are effectively giving them enough rope to hang themselves. In terms of sentencing the very considerable attempts to pervert/obstruct the course of justice could add years on to the sentence that they were going to get anyway.

Luv Viv x

ratonthebeam said...

thanks doc - good to hear from you again.

Anonymous said...

Ironside check your PM box on the 3a

felicity said...

Doc

I have just read your very sad message confirming our worse fears. Whilst we know this is the case the finality is causing tears and distress to me also. At the back of our minds there has always been this lurking hope, albeit a very forlorn one that maybe we are wrong and the McCanns just stashed Maddie away somewhere to make money and she is safe and well.

I can understand you being too upset to post. I know you think in a similar way to me and like me are a big softy at heart. I do hope you are OK.

Com amor
Meu Amigo
Viv x

lizzy said...

docmac,
Thanks for your post, it is very sad and you must be very upset by this, I hope you are back on here soon. Take care x

lizzy said...

Viv,
How is Luke today? I hope he is feeling better and in less pain.

felicity said...

HOPE 4 THAT IS A GREAT IDEA - CAN PEOPLE PLEASE PUT THE TIME OF THEIR POST AT THE BOTTOM OF YOUR MESSAGE

THANKS
VIV X

When I get around to it I will put on side menu - bit upset at the mo and concerned about my dear pal Docmac.

hope4truth said...

Viv

At least that way we will know when people are about...

I have just read Doc's post and feel very sad. The Pros on DX really dont get it do they. Most Antis would be so happy to be proved wrong and for her to be found...

All so very very sad.

Hope you are ok Doc your posts are very important but we are all only human and this is very sad news...

Hope 21.58

Anonymous said...

Hi,

Never posted before but have een a lurker on most Madeleine forums since May.

Reading Docmac post has left me knowing in my heart that Madeleine is no longer alive. Always has a slight hope that she was alive but now that is gone.

There has got to be justice for Madeleine please I hope they don't get away with it.

felicity said...

Ola Claudia


I think the Daily Mirror would have received legal advice it is time to pull the plug - not only are the most terrible things written about the McCanns but also about other posters either of which could land The Mirror in big trouble. The Press Complaints Commission may also have been involved. Isnt that where Tony Parsons wrote his racist rant..


See below as to what happened to the Daily Mirror in 2002 - this did not stop the footballers facing the law it just caused delay and huge expense. British newspapers will have to show extreme restraint once the McCanns are charged and whilst the trial is ongoing - once they have been convicted then the press can go to town and I AM SURE THEY WILL!

Sunday Mirror fined £75,000 for contempt of courtJessica Hodgson MediaGuardian, Friday April 19 2002
Contact usClose Contact the Media editor
editor@mediaguardian.co.uk Report errors or inaccuracies: userhelp@guardian.co.uk Letters for publication should be sent to: letters@guardian.co.uk If you need help using the site: userhelp@guardian.co.uk Call the main Guardian and Observer switchboard:
+44 (0)20 7278 2332
Advertising guide License/buy our content About this articleClose This article was first published on guardian.co.uk on Friday April 19 2002. It was last updated at 17:04 on April 19 2002.
Lee Bowyer
The Sunday Mirror will pay one of the biggest contempt of court fines in newspaper history after publishing an article that led to the collapse of last year's £10m trial of Leeds United footballers Lee Bowyer and Jonathan Woodgate.

The paper has been instructed to pay £75,000 for contempt of court by Lord Justice Kennedy and Mrs Justice Rafferty and will pay £54,000 in costs

The Sunday Mirror's decision to publish an interview with the family of the Asian victim of the attack while the first jury was still considering its verdicts resulted in the collapse of the trial.

Mirror Group Newspapers, which publishes the newspaper, accepted yesterday it was guilty of contempt and "unreservedly apologised" for the distress and inconvenience that followed the collapse of the trial.

It accepted "corporate responsibility" for publishing an interview with the father of the Asian student, Sarfraz Najeib , days after the jury retired to consider its verdict.

The fine indicates that judges accepted the attorney general's recommendation that it should have a deterrent - as well as a compensatory - function.

The court heard yesterday that executives on the paper had repeatedly refused to explain the chain of events leading to the decision to publish the article. The paper was accused of having "ducked the issue".

Last April the Sunday Mirror editor, Colin Myler, resigned after the trial collapsed. Mark Haysom, the managing director of Mirror Group Newspapers, said at the time that Myler had followed the paper's procedures and consulted with attorneys but made an error of judgment in publishing the story.

The attorney general, Lord Goldsmith QC, sought to impose the highest fine possible under the so-called "strict liability" rule, which is when a contempt of court is carried out unintentionally.

The highest fine previously paid by a newspaper was £80,000, paid by the Sun.

Andrew Caldecott QC, acting for the attorney general, said yesterday the "emotive" interview "had a fundamental capacity for prejudice."

The attorney general argued that the references in the article to the alleged racist motive of the attack were "in complete contrast to the judge's direction" to the jury to ignore any media coverage that had suggested the attack was racially motivated.

Sunday Mirror fined £75,000 for contempt of courtJessica Hodgson MediaGuardian, Friday April 19 2002
Contact usClose Contact the Media editor
editor@mediaguardian.co.uk Report errors or inaccuracies: userhelp@guardian.co.uk Letters for publication should be sent to: letters@guardian.co.uk If you need help using the site: userhelp@guardian.co.uk Call the main Guardian and Observer switchboard:
+44 (0)20 7278 2332
Advertising guide License/buy our content About this articleClose This article was first published on guardian.co.uk on Friday April 19 2002. It was last updated at 17:04 on April 19 2002.
Lee Bowyer
The Sunday Mirror will pay one of the biggest contempt of court fines in newspaper history after publishing an article that led to the collapse of last year's £10m trial of Leeds United footballers Lee Bowyer and Jonathan Woodgate.

The paper has been instructed to pay £75,000 for contempt of court by Lord Justice Kennedy and Mrs Justice Rafferty and will pay £54,000 in costs

The Sunday Mirror's decision to publish an interview with the family of the Asian victim of the attack while the first jury was still considering its verdicts resulted in the collapse of the trial.

Mirror Group Newspapers, which publishes the newspaper, accepted yesterday it was guilty of contempt and "unreservedly apologised" for the distress and inconvenience that followed the collapse of the trial.

It accepted "corporate responsibility" for publishing an interview with the father of the Asian student, Sarfraz Najeib , days after the jury retired to consider its verdict.

The fine indicates that judges accepted the attorney general's recommendation that it should have a deterrent - as well as a compensatory - function.

The court heard yesterday that executives on the paper had repeatedly refused to explain the chain of events leading to the decision to publish the article. The paper was accused of having "ducked the issue".

Last April the Sunday Mirror editor, Colin Myler, resigned after the trial collapsed. Mark Haysom, the managing director of Mirror Group Newspapers, said at the time that Myler had followed the paper's procedures and consulted with attorneys but made an error of judgment in publishing the story.

The attorney general, Lord Goldsmith QC, sought to impose the highest fine possible under the so-called "strict liability" rule, which is when a contempt of court is carried out unintentionally.

The highest fine previously paid by a newspaper was £80,000, paid by the Sun.

Andrew Caldecott QC, acting for the attorney general, said yesterday the "emotive" interview "had a fundamental capacity for prejudice."

The attorney general argued that the references in the article to the alleged racist motive of the attack were "in complete contrast to the judge's direction" to the jury to ignore any media coverage that had suggested the attack was racially motivated

felicity said...

Apols for pasting that twice and forgetting to put the time it is now 22.01 Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Hope4

No the pros on the De dont get it do they - there is nothing we would like more than to be proved wrong and see that little darling alive and well. They insist that we just want Kate and Gerry to be guilty.

What we want is justice for this dear little child and thousands of others just like her - parents who behave this may must not be allowed to get away with - children are precious and the law must be strong and protect them.

Luv Viv x
22.05

hope4truth said...

Viv

I just dont understand why they have recieved so much help after leaving their children alone...

If they had said they were wrong and feel guilty and it was their fault how would they forgive themselves I may have felt some sympathy and believed them but it was all about them from day one...

I am off to bed maybe there will be more news tomorrow...

Night

Hope 22.18

lizzy said...

Viv and Hope4 truth,
You have both summed up what most well am sure all anti's feel, everyone am sure would rather be wrong and Madeleine found safe and well. The Pro's seem much more comncerned about the neglectful parents dismissing their disgraceful treatment of their children as a mistake, we've all done it they say, they are the people in my opinion who are not there to support Madeleine, they are there to support the Mccanns and get them absolved of any blame. Why though>? I find it puzzling, surely justice should be done for Madeleine and the guilty brought to justice whoever they are? 22.22

lmcg said...

Hi all, a lot seems to have been happening here today. Not least of all Doc confirming our worst fears, nobody here is happy with this news and I know we would all love to be proved wrong. It's very sad, let's hope Maddie gets justice without unwanted interference from outside Portugal. I don't really care who is responsible, just that the person(s) responsible are put away for a very long time. God Bless Madeleine. Hope to see Docmac back here tommorrow.

On a much lighter note, what's this about the mirror forum being shut down? Is it just for legal reasons or is it possible we are going to this case moving forward sometime soon?

Lmcg x
22.27

Cláudia said...

Hello, darling.
Thank you for your post.
I'm speechless. :-(
22.38

lizzy said...

Lmcg
It says on the mirror forum that it was shut down due to abuse of other posters and the Mccanns.
I wonder if the DE will go the same way. Lizzy 22.39pm

lmcg said...

Lizzy, does that mean due to the abuse from poster to poster and abuse towards the McCann's? Sorry if I am being stupid!

Lmcg
22.45

dogrose said...

docmac - thank you for your post. it's not unexpected news but none the less shocking. lets hope those responsible are brought to justice.poor maddie.

Anonymous said...

How can Clarrie defend these pieces of garbage? has he no self respect?

Take care docmac

Anonymous said...

DocMac's post is very sad. I think we will be shocked when the events of that holiday where all the neglected children were left in danger. I hope they are all made to pay for their crimes.
23.40pm

lmcg said...

Hi Viv, where are you tonight? I have posted 3 posts to 3 different pros and not one has responded to me. Hmmmm and they say they are not reading your blog. I am going to post again tom with a different ID and see if that makes a diffence!

Lmcg x

felicity said...

Hiya LMCG

Sorry no one seems to be answering you. I was rather upset by Doc's post and needed a break.


Just had a look at the DE they seem to be ignoring everyone's posts and coming up with gems like te he he! or the usual obsession abut me. What a sad lot! There does seem to be a lot of new posters - presumably from the Mirror.

Luv Viv x

lizzy said...

Lmcg
I think it meant posters insulting each other as in anti - pros and the Mccanns. Lizzy 0.42

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

I think there probably are good legal reasons for shutting the forum down - I have found some very abusive stuff both towards the McCanns and other posters. As I posted earlier the Mirror have been in trouble before.

However, my old mum always buys the Mirror and she has mostly tried to see both sides but a few days back said to me she was just about sick of the rubbish the Mirror were printing so obviously favouring the McCanns and that it was seriously underestimating people's intelligence. So I dont rule out there is also a policy reason to shutting the forum down because on the whole, it was so anti McCann. I really dont know why the Mirror seem to be so in favour of the McCanns - accepting Cooper man is just making the paper look like a laughing stock. At least the Daily Express printed the other side of the coin as well - the McCanns are just trying to obstruct justice - which they are !

Viv and this time I remembered my own new rule suggested by hope!
00.49
xxxx

Anonymous said...

Well we did it. Job done lads. Drinks on me.

Dr_Darius

All the nutters are at the3arguidos.net now.

Splendid.

felicity said...

Hey Anon

If all the nutters have gone to 3 Arguidos that is a great relief. I will keep the nice ones on here thanks!

Luv Viv
00.56

Anonymous said...

Thanks viv.....ironside and myself are 2 nutters.

felicity said...

Hiya Anon

Then all I can say is there are some very interesting and pleasant nutters around - WELCOME!

Luv Viv
1.04

Anonymous said...

LUUUUVED the aunty flappyaws

lmcg said...

Hi Viv, I wasn't really bothered about being ignored. Just kept challenging the pros and they chose to ignore me, I think all my points were valid and they couldn't think of a response. I am going to try again tommorrow. Look for me in disguise. I too was saddened by Docmac's post, even though it was what we were all expecting it doesn't make it any easier does it? Bless that poor child.

Love Lmcg xxx
01.12

Anonymous said...

Sorry here again.......The post by docmac suggests that the Tapas 1 has given substantial evidence.....This leaves me wondering did he have knowledge what happened before the alarm was raised..........or did he find out after the event...........thoughts please viv.

01.15

felicity said...

HA HA JUST FOUND THIS LITTLE GEM ON THE DE! TEE HEE HEE - organised child abduction walks in by the handily open patio door and then thinks I know I will now climb out the window complete with Maddie - my God I have just about heard everything!

Viv
1.52


Hope you don't mind my intrusion. I think that the McCanns could have been watched by an abductor, and would know the nightly routine. IF the patio doors were unlocked the abductor would know this and would have pounced when Gerry left the apartment. Once in the apartment he would consider leaving by the window, but on opening it would see that it would be difficult to get out while carrying
Madeleine. If he had seen Gerry talking to Wilkins
He would leave by the back door, hence JT seeing him at top of road.
I know there is holes in this scenario, but not as many as there would be if Madeleine was killed in apartment.
I welcome any critisizsm on this scenario.

• Posted by: oldhippy

felicity said...

Hi Anon

My thoughts are the TAPAS would have required Kate and Gerry to level with them or indeed worked it out from what they know - given we worked it out - it is not difficult to imagine they did as they obviously know far more than we do.

Viv x
1.58

Anonymous said...

Portuguese press....

The creepy man was questioned 20 days after Maddie went missing......he has been questioned again after the photo-fit was published and discounted from enquiries.
02.57

felicity said...

Thanks very much for that Anon- what a time-wasting bunch of McScammers - wonder what they will come up with next! We certainly get the sublime to the downright ridiculous dont we - remember when they were going to sue the PJ for not finding Maddie?

I hope the Judge bears all this in mind when he is sentencing Gerry McCann, the master Scam, in particular and maybe Ludicruous ought to get a few years too. If it was down to me life would mean life for Gerry McCann. He is rotten to the core.

Justice for dear little Maddie

Viv x

Anonymous said...

Wonder will Clarrie call another press conference to tell all the journos it was just a load of old tripe.

Dylan05 said...

Docmac,
I have just read your post. Thank you for the info, all very depressing. I really hope that poor maddie didn't suffer too much although i know that she did when she was alone and frightened and crying night after night.

I feel sorry for mrs fenn. i expect when the truth is heard she will feel regretful that she didn't intervene, although it's no fault of hers.

I remember when the events surrounding sarah payne were made public, that a couple of campers said they heard a child screaming but dismissed it because they thought it was just children playing. Later they learnt that poor girl's body was found close by. They would face a life of always asking themselves "what ifs?" and i had many nightmares following that news.

I do hope you are ok. It may be of some comfort to know that we all share your grief and that we are here for you to lean on too. That's what viv's forum is all about.

Take care,

Dilliex 09.43

ratonthebeam said...

Morning Viv and All
As you will have heard by now, the DM is no more! The rumour is that members of the HTFM group infiltrated it and got it shut down. Most of the ex DM guys have gone over to the 3A's, but some have started their own forum -http://reflectioninthemirror.forum2u.org/
The leader pages of the old DM Forum have been chached on Google but sadly the threads are no more. A LOT of valuable information has been lost forever. Well done Clarence, another nail in the coffin of free speech!
Other than that, no new "news" apart from Docs insider info, thanks for that Doc, not what we wanted to hear but no surprise, really. Poor wee soul.

Posted by rat at 9:58

felicity said...

Hiya Anon, Dillie and Rat

It is really shocking that we get this press conference like it is some big deal - only to be told the PJ know who he is and he is innocent.
What a horrible sketch of the poor bloke - in reality he is quite tasty! I just read Alsabella on the DE - really good point as ever - well so what if he was the abductor - would you call a press conference and forewarn him or quietly go to the police - time and time again we have seen the Retardos come out with this sickening line - it is all about putting stuff into the media to try and scam the public they are innocent and it only makes them look more guilty - every time. They went against PJ advice signing Maddies death warrant from the outset with their sickening "logo" highlighting the defect in her eye. It is the cynicism that is just so sickening.
Like Gerry McCann had this vision that just like Princess Diana (our little Princess) millions could be made from her trademarked image. When is it going to sink in we see right through him and his sickening sidekick Ludicrous - what a good word!

It is very sad for Mrs Fenn and as you say she is bound to wonder - could I have saved that poor child. They have ruined her life - the only thing she has to expect in her future is being one of the star witnesses at the trial - how truly awful for her in her old age - when she had gone to a beautiful quiet place to be happy.

I notice there is yet another male now Mr Symington who also looks just like poor Murat. His poor old mum too. The heartache this couple have caused is quite inestimable. The general public shed so many tears for little Maddie and all he can think about is being rich and famous. That pic outside the Whitehouse is so typical of him - just as much distress there as there was on Madeleine's birthday - laughing on the beach with another of his sickening PR stunts. I wonder how The Pope feels...The audacity of this couple is beyond compare.

Anon - I am sure Ludicrous will not be apologising for his load of tripe press conference or to the man he was accusing and putting at risk of vigilante attacks. Perhaps the most we can expect of him is that he persuades Gerry it is best to just shut up for a bit. Somehow though I can imagine Gerry plotting his next little scheme.

Dillie that was lovely to say that my forum is a place where we can console each other in the understandable emotions we feel - grief, anger, abject sadness, shock, disgust. Nothing can bring that sweet child back and it is so heartbreaking. How could they have made all those sentimental videos on Youtube, purely trading on the loveliness of dear little Maddie. I just dont know.

I think there is plenty of room for all who want to comment on this case on various internet fora but as you say there was a lot of useful information on the DM which has now been lost. The good people behind all those views and opinions have not though, they will persist. We all will until we see those two in court where they belong.

Good to hear from you all as ever

Luv Viv xxx
15.00
24.1.08

felicity said...

I have just seen this on the DE - I am really very shocked by some of the comments made from those who support the McCanns - I think this man needs a pschiatrist - this is certainly not the first repulsive remark I have seen from him. Do they get some kind of a perverted thrill out of writing this stuff?

Viv
15.17


I'VE BEEN ON VIV'S BLOG AND FOUND IT VERY STRANGE...
24.01.08, 1:02pm

Felicity will make a post and Viv will thank her for her contribution.... and they are the same person... WHATS THE DEAL WITH THAT?

Is it like a Norman Bates type deal, (the guy in Psycho).

Does Viv dress up as Felicity and sit in her attic and argue with dual identies, seeing who can slag off Rosiepops the most?

• Posted by: Lazarus