14 Jan 2008

HAVE THEY LOST OUR SYMPATHY PONDERS THE DAILY EXRESS

When average posts on the Daily Express run at around 1000 how odd this excellant article got just 12 posts! Clarence Mitchell has, on two occasions, recently referred to the Daily Express in an angry and exasperated way - I think he has fell out with them. Consistently we see the Pro-McCann stories (or so they believe!!) appear in the Daily Mail but even they are printing the public's comments with about 95% against the McCanns. The heyday when Clarence used to obtain sympathetic press seems to be well and truly over - I wonder if his increasing anger and aggression has really helped his relationship with the press - why has he got so personal about it all? Viv x

HAVE THEY LOST OUR SYMPATHY?

Kate and Gerry McCann
Saturday January 12,2008
By Anna Pukas
Have your say(12)
As it is revealed that they are considering a film about their daughter’s disappearance and their campaign sheds leading supporters, a growing section of public opinion appears to be turning against the McCanns...
On New Year’s Day on the Costa del Sol, 15-year-old Amy Fitz­patrick set out on the 10-minute walk to her home after babysitting for family friends. She never arrived and has been neither seen nor heard of since.Since Amy vanished, her distraught mother and stepfather have made only one public appearance. At a brief press conference five days later, they appealed for her safe return and for any information that could help bring that about. Since then they have been resolute in their refusal to say anything more and have turned the media away, saying: “Don’t make this another Maddy.”It is a most revealing – and in some ways chilling – comment on the Madeleine McCann case from people who are better placed than anyone to form a view.

Kate with cuddle cat
Like Madeleine McCann, Dublin-born Amy Fitzpatrick disappeared while in a foreign country. Like Kate and Gerry McCann, Amy’s mother Audrey (she is also the same age as them, 39) has had to place her trust in a foreign police force and foreign laws operating in a foreign language. Unlike the McCanns, however, she has not mounted an extensive publicity campaign to find her daughter. She has not placed posters bearing Amy’s picture in shops or stuck them on the walls of the gated housing complex near Fuen­girola where the family lives. She has not, and will not, give interviews about Amy to tele­vision or to glossy magazines.

All the sorrow I felt for them has vanished

The reason she has not done any of those things is because, in her own words, she does not want the investigation into Amy’s disappearance to “turn into a circus”.In all probability, Audrey Fitz­patrick intended no slight to the McCanns but given her situation and its similarity to that of the McCanns, could there be a more damning indictment of the McCanns’ conduct over their daughter’s disappearance?The messages posted on the various websites devoted to discussion of Madeleine have always provided a wide spectrum of opinion on the case and, more particularly, the comportment of Kate and Gerry. While there is, broadly speaking, still deep sympathy for the anguished couple there is also a considerable cynicism over their high profile.


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Rightly or wrongly, some believe they have become rather too fond of publicity – a view that this week appears to have become even more entrenched. First, extracts were published from an extensive interview which Gerry McCann gave to the prestigious American magazine Vanity Fair, in which he stated that he bitterly regretted leaving Made­leine in their holiday apartment while he and his wife went to dine with their friends. He also conceded that the past two months – the length of time since the Mc­Canns were named arguidos, or suspects, by Portuguese police – had “clearly polarised people”.

The McCann's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, faces the TV cameras
Then it was revealed that Father Jose Manuel Pacheco, the Portuguese priest who comforted the McCanns in the aftermath of Madeleine’s disappearance, has cut off contact with them, reportedly refusing to respond to phone calls and texts from Kate. He now says he regrets getting involved with them and felt duped when they were named arguidos. And earlier this week it emerged that TV presenter Esther McVey, who is a long-time family friend, has stepped down as a director of the Find Madeleine Fund. Ms McVey, who has known Kate McCann since their college days, insisted she was quitting because she wanted to concentrate on her political career (she hopes to become a Tory MP) and her studies for an MBA degree.

The McCanns and the twins on the way to church in Rothley, Leicestershie
The McCann family spokes­man, ex-BBC reporter Clarence Mitchell, also insisted the parting was “very amicable”. Nonethe­less the timing is unfortunate, to say the least, coming as it does hot on the heels of the most contentious development so far – the putative “Maddy movie”.The McCanns have been app­roached by IMG, the biggest entertainment agency in the world, and last month a meeting took place with their representatives, including Mitchell. IMG owns Darlow Smithson Produc­tions, which made the award-winning documentary Touching The Void, about the fate of two British mountaineers following an accident in the Andes.

Madeleine's great uncle, Brian Kennedy, talks to the world's media
It can be assumed that a film about Madeleine would use the same format of extensive interviews with the main “characters” in the story interwoven with dramatic reconstructions. How­ever, the use in some reports of the description “movie” has led to the belief that the McCanns are sanctioning the making of a Hollywood blockbuster. Mitchell was swift to try to dispel the notion of fictionalisation of Made­leine’s story. “Our objection is to the word ‘movie’,” he said. “We had a discussion with IMG a month ago and that’s as far as we’ve got. We discussed a film in the broadest terms possible. It may or may not happen. A similar meeting was held with ITV about some kind of factual drama, with actors playing Kate and Gerry. We get approaches from all kinds of media all the time.” The film could form part of a package, with book and TV broadcast deals, worth a reported £10million, but Mitchell emphasised that all money earned would go into the Find Madeleine Fund, which was launched a few days after she vanished last May. It quickly topped £1.2million but is seriously depleted. With £80,000 spent on a poster campaign, £300,000 on Spanish private investigators and thousands going on fact-finding trips to Spain and Morocco and living expenses (including two months of mortgage payments), the fund stands at less than £400,000. Donations have dried up. “Money is needed to search for Madeleine,” said Mitchell. “A film would be made on a percentage basis, with part of the profits going to the fund. “None of the money would go to Kate and Gerry. They are absolutely not trying in any way to profit out of her name.”Gerry McCann, meanwhile, denied that he and his wife were co-operating with any kind of film. “We can categorically deny that we are considering a movie about Made­leine’s disappearance. This is simply untrue,” he wrote in his blog on Wednesday. “Sadly, his denials and Mitch­ell’s clarifications app­ear to have had little, if any, mollifying effect on public perception.“It’s an absolute disgrace that these cold, calculating, child-neglecting, sorry excuses for human beings should have a film made. They should be arrested, not given the opportunity of more publicity!” That, from a message board correspondent named Pam, is typical of the ferocity of opinion. Another, Ken, writes: “If a film is made it will be endorsed by the McCanns. They will give permission so they can make even more money out of this. They left them kids alone most nights – why do you have sympathy for them?”Eileen ponders: “What next? Gerry writing a newspaper column and Kate launching a fitness video? This news does not surprise me in the least. That publicity-mad couple have and will continue to do anything and everything to keep THEMSELVES in the spotlight in their vain and (thankfully) failing attempt to detract from their own irresponsible actions.”And from Geoff, there was: “All the sympathy and sorrow I had for them has now vanished. How could any genuine grieving parents be looking for this sort of money-making venture so soon after Made­leine’s disappearance?”Meanwhile, a correspondent named Peter mused: “Am I the only one fed up with listening to people involved with the Madeleine McCann case, like Clarence Mitchell, and their ‘holier than thou’ attitude? To keep saying that her parents had nothing to do with it is complete nonsense. Had the McCanns been an ordinary couple from a poor council estate and not been professional people, the two remaining children would have been removed from them by social services.”Here, on the Daily Express website, more than 60,000 comments have been posted about the case – nearly three quarters of which are hostile to the McCanns.Gerry McCann was all too right when he wrote in his blog: “This is the worst publicity we have had since Kate and I were declared to be arguidos.”Since the McCanns left Portugal in September and returned to Rothley, Leic­ester­shire, their lives have taken diverging paths. In November, Gerry went back to work three days a week as a cardiologist and as of this week is working full time. He plays golf once a week, pops into a village pub and takes twins Amelie and Sean to play in the park. Kate rarely ventures from home; she takes the twins to nursery twice a week and attends mass on Sundays and Tuesdays.Though their relatives and friends insist that, as a couple, they are as united as ever, they admit the one point on which they differ is publicity and handling media. Kate finds it too painful – she was unable to answer a single question for the Vanity Fair interviewer – and she feels that a lower profile would be more prudent. Gerry still sees the media as a tool to be used. In this, even his advisers say he has sometimes been too assiduous and his blog dis­appeared from the Find Madeleine website for a time.Handling the public is, however, another matter, as Gerry is finding out to his cost in a week that may come to be seen as the week the Mc­Canns’ grip on the nation’s heart slackened.** CLICK HERE NOW TO SEE THE MADELEINE McCANN STORY - TOLD IN PICTURES**

55 comments:

Ironside said...

Transcript:

HARRIS: John Corner joins us now. He is a friend to the McCanns and the godfather to their twins.

John, good to talk to you.

What is your reaction to the news that Kate McCann is now a suspect in the disappearance of Maddie?

JOHN CORNER, FRIEND OF MCCANNS: Well, I'm appalled, but I'm also frustrated. You know, I've worked very, very hard with Kate and Gerry in the campaign to find our missing child and our missing Madeleine. And what we're worried about truly is that this investigation or this new line that the Portuguese police have taken is going to derail those real efforts.

You know, we were in Spain only a few weeks ago and dropping posters in different towns in Spain. And what we were amazed that is 50 percent of the people that we were approaching had never heard of Madeleine. And that's what we're up against right at street level of getting those posters out. And that advice had come to us from the U.S. The International Center for Missing and Exploited Children have been marvelous in their support and guidance and direction. They're the world experts. And they're saying to us, you know, six months in an average time. So hang on in there. Keep looking for Madeleine. And now this.

HARRIS: Well, John, I'm trying to understand here, Kate is now an official formal suspect. You believe she had nothing to do with this disappearance?

CORNER: Absolutely. Absolutely.

HARRIS: So why do you think she's a suspect? And have you heard -- you certainly are aware of the new evidence that seems to be pointing, at least the authorities, in her direction?

CORNER: Well, you know, whenever Kate and Gerry hear that there's new evidence or new technological evidence, it gives them hope because they think the Portuguese police are going to have a new breakthrough, it's going to lead us to whoever's abducted Madeleine. It's going to allow us to get her back home safely. And I think it's truly frustrating and exasperating. It's just dreadful that the mind set of the police is quite the opposite, that they're actually looking into the parents and not looking out, not doing the search, not doing the intensive work that we really need . . .

HARRIS: You would have been surprised -- John, you would have been surprised if the authorities hadn't looked at the parents, wouldn't you?

CORNER: Well, you know, Kate and Gerry were interviewed at some length in that first few days. Interviewed extensively. And that's good -- that due diligence, that's good practice. You know, all police forces do that. You look, you interview the parents, you clear them and you move on and we get out there and find Madeleine. And for us to come full circle after four months is just dreadful. It's (INAUDIBLE).

HARRIS: Well, how do you explain the apparent break-through in the case? You mentioned a break-through a moment ago. Well, there has been a break-through in the case, according to the authorities. How do you explain the blood in the rental car? A car rented more than 20 days after Maddie was reported missing? How do you explain it?

CORNER: It defies explanation, quite frankly. I have no idea. It flies in the face of common sense. I could speculate all day about that, but . . . HARRIS: Well wait a minute, John. I mean this is DNA evidence. This is DNA found in a rental car that was rented by the couple 20 days -- I'm just asking you, how do you explain it?

CORNER: It makes -- I can't explain it. It makes no sense. It makes no sense.

HARRIS: Do you or do you not . . .

CORNER: I just know that . . .

HARRIS: Do you not trust what the authorities are saying to you? Have you talked to Gerry or Kate about the new evidence?

CORNER: No, I haven't. Not about new evidence. Only about the police line of questioning last night. And, quite frankly, it makes no sense to me and I can't speculate on it. You know, it just -- it makes no sense at all.

HARRIS: So the authorities come back, let me just try this on you. The authorities come back to Kate and to Gerry because the question lingers, who leaves a three-year-old to watch two-year-old twins. Who does that?

CORNER: Well, you have to understand the situation. I think the only thing that Kate and Gerry are guilty of is a little bit of complacency. It's a very, very sleepy town. Well, it certainly was before the media . . .

HARRIS: Complacency? How about neglect?

CORNER: There has been police force (ph) . . .

HARRIS: How about neglect? How about child endangerment?

CORNER: Well, I disagree with that. I disagree with that. And if you talk to the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children, they disagree with that, too.

HARRIS: So as a general practice, it's OK with you, in your mind and the way you think for a three-year-old to be left to care for two- year-old twins?

CORNER: I'm not sure that's productive at this stage to talk about that. I mean, I've been to (INAUDIBLE). I've looked at it very carefully myself. And it literally was like sitting in your garden. That's how far away the apartment was.

HARRIS: OK. John Corner is a friend of the McCanns and, John, some tough questions to ask you, but we appreciate you stepping up to take those questions on for us.

CORNER: Yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA.....nr.02.html ..


Morning Viv....Someone posted this on the mirror forum...It Is a must...Interview with Jon Corner...the night kate was made an arguido...

Ironside said...

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lsNbbulzNFI

Thought you might enjoy this viv...the author is carly...from the3arguidos...says it all really..many photos I have not seen before...

dolores said...

BBC NEWS 24
England & Wales crown Prosecution Service are satisfied with Low Copy DNA sampling being used in court.

eureka said...

Hi Viv, I think this is relevant to the parenting attitudes prevailing in the USA. I just saw the reality TV show "Judge Judy" on the UK's ITV2 at 1830. In this particular true case portrayed, a couple left three children at home aged 3, 7,and 8 years, alone for half an hour. The USA Judge's response recorded on air was "How dare you leave three children of that age alone for a second, let alone half an hour. You are irresponsible parents and you are lucky you haven't lost your children to social services already".

These children were left only once in their secure locked familiar home and not in a strange foreign holiday apartment next to a main road! How can the Mc say they were not irresponsible?

Ecolab said...

I think...

they show LOT of emotions!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEAySu-hTJo

Did they win the Lottery, or are they just happy beeing in Limelight?

Himself said...

For your viewing pleasure.

Gallery McCann

Himself said...

For reasons beyond my ken the link is bad, perhaps you might try going through my post name and searching Gallery McCann on the blog, it should raise a smile.

Peace.
Himself

Ironside said...

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2F64.233.169.104%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3Al210iPH86fwJ%3Asemanal.expresso.clix.pt%2F1caderno%2Fpais.asp%253Fedition%253D1822%2526articleid%253DES268030%2Bclarence%2Bsoham%2Bexpresso%26hl%3Den%26ct%3Dclnk%26cd%3D3&langpair=pt%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8




Hi Viv the translations awful...tells us a lot about Clara though...his wife lost a child while he was nursing the mccanns.....he did not return to england to be with her...Birds of a feather and all that....

ratonthebeam said...

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/kate-mccann-parents-of-missing-madeleine-mccann-gerry-mccann-and-kate-mccann-hold-a-press-conference-for-the-portuguese-media-OGKM4v.jpg

The grieving, devastated parents.

Posted by guineapig.

docmac said...

Ironside your last post confirms to me why I post so little nowadays. Hope you are well.

Ratonthebeam was that picture not taken during the preamble to the interview when Gerry was laughing and joking with the crew and Kate was waving Cuddlecat about? Was it the one with the attractive Spanish lady who Gerry was trying to chat up? When the interview started Kate suddenly started her 'sniffing Cuddlecat' routine and both their demeanours changed to deadly serious. Actors comes to mind.

Where's Viv by the way?

Ironside said...

Hi Docmac...I dont stick around ..just postsomething I think may be of interest to the decent few that are left....There like rats have just been over to take a look...They are more vile than ever....

Something I wanted to ask you...do you know about the studies carried out in South Africa regarding Zolpidem? Ralf Clauss and Dr.Nell
discovered that Zolpidem can have amazing effects on people who have had strokes....Do you know of this? If so what is your opinion...

Anonymous said...

How did the house hunting go doc?

I take it you have no more info yet..ah well,will all have to wait a little longer.

Take care.

felicity said...

Evening all - sorry have not been around - have been at the tribunal this afternoon for a "case management discussion". Things are going well but it is stressful and I have a headache so forgive me!

I looked at the picture supplied by RAT - just how could they be laughing? The never fail to seriously repulse me. I note your comments Doc - they are not so good at acting as they believe!

I just dont understand how people like Mr Corner can try and defend them - so he just cannot explain the DNA in the hire car...but wants to tell us they are innocent!

Ironside - I am horrified that Claris's wife lost a baby but he did not even fly back to be with her. I already have him figured out as having a similar personality style to Gerry - that just confirms it. Does Claris not even have the capacity to imagine how his poor wife must have been feeling?

Dolorers - thanks for confirmation LCN DNA is perfectly acceptable to CPS/our courts.

Eureka - leaving children like this for 30 minutes which the McCanns clearly think is acceptable can cause terrible tragedy. Anyone who condones this behaviour is just as bad as the abusive parents themselves. The McCanns could have got the public on side by saying we were so wrong, we are sorry, we hope this sends a message to parents never ever to be as foolish as we were - but they are not prepared to make any admissions or apologies in spite of what they claim happened to Madeleine whilst she was left alone. They deserve to be sent down and I sincerely hope that in the fullness of time they will be.

Luv to you all
Justice for dear little Maddie!
Viv x

docmac said...

Ironside, funnily enough I just read earlier in my local press that Zolpidem has just come through a study in North Carolina proving it's effectiveness as a safe hypnotic (sleeping pill) and that withdrawal effects are rare. I have not heard of the other study, though when these trials are done there are often parallel studies undertaken. I have no interest in strokes, it's way out of my field of interest. Sorry, mate.

http://www.iol.co.za/html/frame_babynet.php?set_id=16&click_id=661&art_id=iol1200293328968S413

Hi Anon,

We are looking for a home for my sister-in-law close to us. The schools are very good here and they have a 1 year old daughter now. My wife and her are VERY close and don't see each other more than once a week, so it would be nice to be able to pop over late afternoons etc. We saw a number of places but no luck so far.

No other news yet, no. Cards must be very close to the chest.

Ironside said...

Thanks Docmac...I asked because my mother had a stroke a year ago and she is taking Zolpidem as part of a trial in England..we have had some positive signs...Thanks anyway....
Docmac don't let them upset you on the DX...I used to really enjoy the site...Alsabella was on earlier
not for long though...It seems
all the good people have left..
Hope you are feeling better and that your family are well....am signing out now it has been a long day...Hope Viv's OK....she has not been around much....Regards...

docmac said...

Cheers Ironside. Rest well and look after those friends of yours. I hope it goes well for your mum (she may be on the placebo though!)

Anonymous said...

2 more could be made arguidos

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com

felicity said...

Hiya Anon

Thanks for the link. They do not say who the two further arguidos will be - but I would make a fairly accurate guess, that will be Tanner and O'Brien. I like the way they say this will not happen until after the questioning - so they will be questioned as witnesses first...nice work PJ. I would say whether or not they choose to lie in these interviews they are going to join the happy little bunch of arguidos. Although Rosiepips keeps trying to say why would ALL the friends choose to lie for them - they (the Paynes and the Oldfields) are just not in the serious arguido league like the other two Tapas. If my memory serves me well Rachel has lied by saying she saw Murat hanging aroung that night; Mike Oldfield has lied by saying he did a check at 9.30 has Payne lied by saying he checked up on Kate when Gerry was playing tennis (not sure about this) Gerry now seems to be saying he was there all the time time - achilles tendon injury.

I may be getting a bit muddled here. Can someone help me as to what lies the others seem to have told because I am trying to assess how much trouble they may be in or whether they can be excused and perhaps be prosecution witnesses along with Paynes mom who stayed at the table - like she did not want to get involved with the plot...what a sensible lady! She could be a real loose cannon and we do not seem to have heard what she is going to say but I have a feeling it will certainly not be helping the Mcs.

Thanks
Viv x

Ironside said...

THEY WORK IN GROUPS WITH A LEADER...WE ALL KNOW WHO THE LEADER IS ON HERE ...DONT WE...
15.01.08, 8:51am

Hello, and thankyou so much for emailing.

My name is Jo Griffin, and I am the founder member of 'helpingtofindmadeleine'. We are now a large group of people, all unpaid volunteers, who all wish to assist in the search for Madeleine in some way. In order to help you decide whether you'd like to join our group, allow me to tell you a bit about what we're doing.

We are in touch with the McCann family, and their campaign manager, and our group works to compliment and work alongside that of the main campaign. The main aims of our campaign are to spread the word of madeleines abduction, and publicise/advertise the fact in as many ways, in as many countries as we can. It has been shown that the chances of recovering a child are much higher if the profile of the campaign to find the child remains high on the media and public agenda....ie, in the minds of the public. One in six missing children are recovered from a member of the public recognising them from a poster.

Furthermore, we refuse to allow Madeleine and her abduction to be forgotten, and by continuing to pursue the issue, we hope that Madeleine will remain in the hearts and minds of the public. This is why we are continuing to assist the search for Madeleine in this manner.
.
Our whole group is sub-divided into smaller groups, each with a leader, each member working together in their 'mission'. The groups are working on targeting specific countries, and flooding that country with the campaign in a very organised and controlled manner We're not a support group, (although we ARE supportive!), and although we do have a group forum, its not a chat forum, its for the group to use for communication.

I am starting to let people know this before they join as people have previously joined, and have then never responded again when they realise that we are actually working quite hard to assist the search for Madeleine. There is a regular time commitment involved, and also, you would need to have access to a computer, (and know how to use it!) and a working knowledge of the internet. If you're also enthusiastic and motivated, and have a belief that Madeleine can be recovered, you're the kind of member we want! So, if you feel that you can commit some time and effort to assist in the search to find this lost little girl, you have come to the right place, and your efforts will be more than appreciated, by all of us at HelpingtofindMadeleine, and also by the McCann family, whom we are in regular contact with.

Should you think that you might like to commit some time and effort in joining us in assisting the search for Madeleine... please email me back. (No hard feelings if you feel this is not for you. )

If you cannot work with us for your own reasons, perhaps time restrictions and family commitments, but you still wish to do what you can, then please let us thank you for continuing to care about this litle girl, and also know that by doing the following things, you are helping.

* Buy a wristband for yourself and your family (http://www.findmadeleine.com)
* Making a donation to 'Madeleines fund', which is presently funding the Private Investigators.
* Have Madeleines poster in your vehicle.
* Use 'Madeleine' luggage labels on your luggage if you travel
* Take laminated posters of Madeleine if you travel away from home, and place them in public places.
* Support the McCanns publically. Send messages of support via http://www.findmadeleine.com/support/send/

In line with other organisations who deal with issues regarding children, you will be required to disclose your full name, date of birth, address, a home/mobile contact number, and your place of work. You can have absolute confidence that this information will not be shared outside of HTFM*, or used for any other purposes other than establishing your identity, and contact details. Your details will be removed at your request. Please forward this information in your return email if you decide to join us.

Due to the unprecedented number of emails we are now receiving, you may experience a delay in receiving a response. Please accept our apologies regarding this. We WILL get back to you.

If you respond to this email and request membership, you are agreeing to our confidentiality clause which forbids members from disclosing any information obtained from HTFM emails and/or the HTFM private forum.

Many thanks.

Jo @ helpingtofindmadeleine


If this is deleted...there will also be a copy on other forums including vivs blog

• Posted by: IRONSIDE • Report Comment




Hi Viv have posted this on DX forum...am interested to see how long it stays...I give it five minutes....There is something weird going on there....

Ironside said...

Alsabella...when you find out about
Moita Flores will you leave a message here on viv's blog....I have an awful feeling this is team mccann again...

Ironside said...

Thhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Dey0baAlRrE&eurl=http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MADELEINE_LINKS.htmis is from the3 arguidos

Ironside said...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Dey0baAlRrE&eurl=http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MADELEINE_LINKS.htm


This is from the3arguidos

Sorry viv the last post wasa bit muddled...Hope you are OK

docmac said...

Ironside, I have seen that e-mail from Jo before. I laughed when I saw that if the recipient thereof is not able to spare the time on the computer he or she should still send MONEY!!!

Incidentally, though I may not be able to read your response this evening, what exactly was this all about? What is an 'unauthorized' website exactly?

****THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN DELETED****
15.01.08, 8:51am

***Links to unauthorised websites will be removed****

• Posted by: IRONSIDE

Best wishes to you and yours.

Ironside said...

Hi Docmac, Thanks for telling me it had been deleted....It was a little test...this is on the 3arguidos...I wanted to see if anyone would bite...I sent the e.mail that is now on Vivs ..it is a web...am pretty sure these are working the DX forum.....

I have seen it before also...I posted it a while back..on the DX dont know if it was deleted then though....
Anyway sure enough...Lazarus rose to the bait...I wondered why?....
Why on the defence? Its just an e.mail....
The abuse and insults are not normal.Direct attacks at the poster.mccanns are innocent....
There is something very odd going on at the DX...
I read that Mitchell hates this newspaper...because he has no control..so it would make sense to have keyboard monkeys..to disrupt the site..
Hope your well...as I said dont let them get to you...Your a good person...my regards to your family...Lets not stop digging for the truth....Kindest regards...

Ironside said...

http://www.lieveke.com/Forums/index.php



Docmac, This is what all the fuss is about...her name is Jo Griffin

docmac said...

Thanks for your prompt reply Ironside :). As you probably know I think there are only a very few keyboard monkeys left. I read today's early posts and I can not believe that so many do not make the connection between MissMarples and Rosie. I happen to believe too that although posters such as Maureen and Oldhippy exist, they have shared their usernames and passwords amongst themselves, allowing the two 'big bosses' Rosie and Alroy to post using aliases. There is often a far too lucid post from the hipster, for example. I do not think that those two have shared their own logins with the minor players.

Desperate times I say. They know it's going to the wire and will do anything to deflect attention from this.

Regards to you too.

docmac said...

Ta for the link too. Will check it out.

LIZZY said...

docmac,
Well I have made a few links on the DE with duplicate posting, they believe people do not know but I think a few of us on there know, Blackdaises, allout, are also posing as others and chinadoll is appearing under another name I remember a poster with the same appetite for trouble who I believe she is. How are you now ? Have you learnt any more re the Tapas1?

docmac said...

Fine thanks, Lizzy :-).

I have heard nothing at all about what transpired in Lisbon. Lips are being kept tight shut. I take that to be a good sign, don't know about you?

Hope you are well too.

Cláudia said...

Hello, my friends!
How are you all?

felicity said...

HELLO EVERYONE!

How are you all?

Speaking of duplicate posting did you see a daft post from Maudlin7 about 3-4 days back - she was saying that I write to myself on this blog by starting off as Felicity and signing it Viv! She also said that she and others "know" that I am still posting on the DE and I am using other people's identities on there as well- I just put it down to her paranoia but is she accusing me of what they actually do?

Viv x

Anonymous said...

Lizzy,

Is Reina still posting?

docmac said...

Hahaha Viv. Maudlin was right! You've just done it again ;-). Silly cow, that Maudlin.

I'm fine, Claudia. Just a bit jealous though as I see you have a new British boyfriend in Lisbon lolololol!

dolores said...

Hi Viv I hope you are feeling better today,and recovering from the stressful day you had yesterday.
I don't know if you have read this article alredy,if not it looks like PJ have been extremely clever,and fooled quite a few.If this link does not work iit's in the mirror forum under BLUE JEEP HIRED BY McCANNS

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=37085&post&days=o&postorder=asc&starts=15

Iwould'nt worry what they say on DM you know they are a filling short of a sandwich.
xxxx

felicity said...

Hey Brill

I actually managed to post when you are still all around!!

Hiya Doc - Maudlin is a thick %$$%$^%$ wotshername isnt she? Is she the only one who has not noticed that I assumed another name to post on the DE "Felicity" and its use on this site is a bit of a joke - well jokes certainly pass Maudlin by dont they! but hey she is a lady that likes something to be vicious about so I am happy to oblige! Everyone unless you are a Pro is a liar liar LOLOLOLOL Oh by the way she also said that I keep cutting and pasting HER posts onto this blog - dont flippin flatter yourself lady! True enough I do cut and paste the odd really good post I spot - failing that it would be to rip the proverbial ....but again Maudlin would not have the capacity to pick up on that - maybe it is her medication...

Dolores will have a look at the Mirror thread and come back

luv ya viv x

hope4truth said...

Hello All

Just on the DX dont know why I bother but wont be beaten LOL

Sorry to ask again but can someone give ne the link the 3 arguidos my browser did not save it.

Oh BTW if I ever get it to work I am regd twice once as hope 4 truth and the one I will use which is hope4truth dont know why I put spaces in the first time I am not usually technophobic???

Intresting posts on here I am trying to read between the lines glad I never trained as a spy I am hopeless (4truth) LOL

Thanks if you can give me the link

lmcg said...

Hi all, I find this from the HTFM email the most disturbing:

If you respond to this email and request membership, you are agreeing to our confidentiality clause which forbids members from disclosing any information obtained from HTFM emails and/or the HTFM private forum.


Why should anything they discuss be private or confidential if it was all above board and they were truely "helping to find Madeleine"? They have your name, address, d.o.b incase you go against this. I totally agree with Ironside here this is totally suspicious. Well done Ironside for your investigative work!

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

This is all I can find about a blue jeep and currently dont really know what to make of it. When I go on holiday I always hire a car and I think it is likely the McCanns would have done. Strange we only have reports of DNA being found in the second hire car but perhaps they thought by this stage the heat would be off....

Any further comments on this Doc/Ironside and Co?

Viv x


August 7th, 2007

Today
correio da manha.
Madeleine McCann Case
PJ searches Maddie’s jeep thoroughly

The english police agents accompanied the PJ into level -4 of the parking garage in Portimao, away from photographers, and watched the collection of residues in the blue jeep that was used by the McCann couple, the vehicle that was rented by Madeleine’s family for their Algarve vacation.
The pressure from english authorities “intensified” after the suspicions on the “british context” were assumed, but “now there is no going back”, an inspector admitted to CM. It was important for PJ to carefully analyse the crossing of phone calls in Praia da Luz, before and after the crime, and “to avoid an international conflict” it was just two weeks ago that the decision was made to ask for help from english dogs that are able to detect the smell of corpses.
The detection of death inside the apartment, done by the dogs, allowed the PJ to assume their suspicions, and again, in the presence of english police, Robert Murat’s house was thoroughly searched, over the weekend. Again nothing was found. “Only the fact that he is an arguido before the law maintains him as a suspect”.
The next 15 days are crucial to the investigation, even because of the results of forensics tests that were performed on the McCanns’ jeep, which should arrive at PJ from labs in Lisbon. The abduction theory has been definitely abandoned and PJ is close to the key to this crime.
(the next part of the article is detailed info about the cars being searched)

Lmcg said...

Viv I saw that from M7, think it was the night I told you it was utter nonsense on there. It did make me laugh the bit about you talking to yourself! Do these people want us to believe they are stupid (rather than just pure manipulative) as if she is not fully aware Viv/Felicity are one and the same! It just made her arguement look good (to her!). What about Christabel? She has always annoyed me. When I first started looking in on the forum she used to respond in kisses to anyone she didn't agree with and now she is utterly obsessed with Murat, so much so her posts regarding him actually disgust me. Anyway just my thoughts... better change my identity now if I venture back on the DE as I will be attacked after saying all this!

LMcg x

Anonymous said...

Hope4truth - don't ever reveal that to the DE forum! You will never forget it. I am thinking poor Alsabella :)

hope4truth said...

Hi Annon

Dont worry it was on the 3 arguidos site I was a bit of an idiot with my name I am an angel on the DX with just one try LOL

Yes she was hounded until it was pathetic she wasnt hiding anything and then the same person accuses otheres of being nasty??? Funny though if you wanted to be 2 people on there you would do as they do and have diffrent names???

I am not leaving though CD made me tough as old boots

felicity said...

Hiya Lmcg

I think that is the sign of a really stupid person when they just do not see themselves how stupid they are and Maudlin is a classic example of that. It is extremely rare that her posts actually say anything about the Maddie case and even then it is just to repeat what she has said a hundred times before e.g. re the non-existent listening service!

Christabel seems to have an unnatural obsession with paedophilia and an overwhelming obsession and hatred of Murat. It is clear that she has spent countless hours on the internet reading everyone else's posts and adopting them as facts which she has, over the months presented on the DE - I think one of the daftest was one she got from a Sky forum - she is a rather repulsive character isnt she!I think it was her and Mandz that started to refer to him as MuRAT but that seems to have stopped now. There seems to be a policy of deflecting away from Murat...they know there is no evidence linking him so instead keep coming up with new fantasy characters who cannot be checked out as they are not identified e.g. "paedophile ring in Spain" or Morocco or Saudi Arabia! or or or ...they are so pathetic!

Hope4 - nice to see you back again - are you OK :-)

Luv Viv x

hope4truth said...

Hi VIv

Yes fine thanks a little frustrated at times but this site makes me feel calm and know I am not alone LOL

I am off to bed now (well I said that an hour ago so who knows)

:o)

yogaden102 said...

Hi All

I have been following the forums( DX mainly, and occassionally the mirror) since Sept, and through those sites have found my way onto this one. I particulary enjoy reading the posts by Ironside, Docmac and Viv to name but a few. I have chosen this site for my first posting as I don,t feel I could cope with the pro posters on the DX.

From the beginning of this sad story, I was behind the McCanns 100% ( Even though they left their children unattended, something that I would never do with my children, I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt as I didn't think they deserved this) and like most of you donated money to the fund.

In Sept when they were made Arguido's, I was shocked and found it hard to believe that they could have harmed Madeleine, but over the past few months, I have never ceased to be amazed buy their constant changing stories and lies, and whilst I feel sad for their loss, I can't get past the fact that they WILL NOT RETURN to Portugal to answer the PJ,s questions. Surely any half intelligent person can see that If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to lose by going back. By eliminating themselves from the enquiry the search for Maddy can resume. Every day they hide at home is a day of searching lost. (Although sadly I now strongly believe that she is no longer with us, and that Kate and Gerry had a hand in her demise)

I hope that the story about the tapas 1 is correct and that the PJ's return to question the Tapas 9sooner rather than later.

The reason for my posting is that I have a question regarding the McCanns solicitors that I am hoping one of you can help me with.

I have been reading several things over the last few days about the solicitors hired by the McCanns, and several of the posts seem to imply that they are using solicitors based in Portugal. Are they no longer using the very expensive group of lawyers based in the Uk, that they visited for 6 hours on their return from portugal. Is this true or have I got the wrong end of the stick.

I would like to thank you all for the time and effort that you put into providing information for the many people out there like me who are looking for Justice for Madeleine. Please keep up the good work.

Yogaden

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
I agree with you re Maudlin, she has nothing to say I could bet money that when she appears it will be to once again bring up the baby listening service, at first I thought she was stupid but have worked it now, there is the argumentative type who seek to upset posters and there are the people like her who post to make people repeat comstantly same old same old and therefore no serious discussion takes place. All part of the team leaders plan am sure.

lizzy said...

ViV,
I read about the blue jeep earlier on the Mirror forum and there was a theory by somebody called Khama on there called exciting theory is about 5 pages long but the jeep is in it, found it quite interesting myself. The author made the commnet that it would be funny if the stand alone piece of evidence the Pj had was this jeep.

lizzy said...

yeah I believe Reina is still posting but not as Reina, she is obvious by the pyschological babble no matter what she calls herself.

docmac said...

Yogaden thanks for taking the time to post and for your kind words. I will leave Viv to answer your legal question as it is something I know little of. It may take a while, but she will answer I can assure you!

Kind regards.

felicity said...

Hiya Yogaden!

Welcome to the forum and thanks so much for your post it is always great to get new posters offering a different insight.

I can understand you not wanting to post on the DX. It seems clear that Clarence Mitchell is not happy with that newspaper - although they have printed a lot of pro-mccann stories over the months the next day you can guarantee there will be a story that is against them. I think it was Doc on here earlier that pointed out that it is for this reason relatives and keyboard monkeys for the McCanns hang out on the DX waiting to attack people who dare to criticise the McCanns. You may have noticed of late they are not posting on the stories that are against the McCanns merely the ones more in their favour. I think it is unfortunate that those against have also done the same so we have finished up with only 12 posts on a really good article as I have pointed out which is extraordinary - I have only been running this blog for a few months and it regularly gets a lot more posts than that!

I think you are one of the many who has always wanted to see the best in human nature and believe in the McCanns - also giving to their fund. There are a lot of very kind hearted and generous people just like you in the UK who have had their trust abused by the McCann team and their money grabbing ventures. Perhaps it is my career in the law and then probation that always made me see the bad side of the McCanns and suspect them from the very outset. There is a range of human behaviours that you could expect from parents after their child has been abducted but the McCanns have always been way outside that normal range. Moms in that situation just do not repeatedly turn out immaculately dressed and adorned as we saw Kate do and perhaps even more startling - go jogging! I also recall seeing her "crying" on the balcony of the apartment when she knew full well the cameras were below. The same with going to church. People remain indoors with their private grief and do not need to put on an act. I think she is very much influenced by what Gerry tells her to do. Lately however, there seems to be a clear sign of dissent with many reports of her wanting to adopt a lower profile with Gerry still insisting the media are there to be "used" - no one could continue to realistically believe this is in the search to "find" Madeleine.

I am fortunate in attracting some good posters on here and I am glad you like the blog. Many people comment they feel safe and calm rather than upset and enraged as they do when attempting to post on the DE. I have often thought - the DE would be read internationally on the internet and what an appalling advert they are for British people. Fortunately it is clear from comments from many across the world e.g. Rothaymere and Doctordoom from the States and Alsabella, Margarida, Claudia and Athena from Portugal they see right through the few serially nasty McCann supporters on the DE and do not believe they are representative of British people, no more so than people across the world believe that it is the "British way" for parents to go abroad and dump their tots in bed at night and leave them alone to their fate!

As you say the McCanns could so easily have eliminated themselves from the enquiry if they were genuinely innocent by returning to Portugal and assisting the police in their enquiries - the fact that they refuse to do so only serves to confirm that their concern is with self- preservation rather than the safe return of little Maddie - we all know this is not an option. There is simply no reason why very senior Portuguese detectives and prosecutors would claim that Madeleine died in the apartment that night if it were not true - why on earth would they do that when the eyes of the world are turned in their direction due to the media frenzy the McCanns unleashed.

In relation to your question about the lawyers. Initially we know there was £100,000 in the kitty from Mr Branson to pay for legal expenses. So in the early stages it seemed like money was no object and Gerry also thought he could dip into the find maddie fund for legal costs as well. After huge public disdain at the suggestion the directors of the fund quite naturally announced this would not be happening. It was in those early days that money was lavished on lawyers. Kate and Gerry knew they were suspected of criminal involvement in Maddie's disappearance and engaged a senior lawyer in Portugal to commence a libel action against a newspaper. It was notable that this lawyer did not specialise in civil law for the libel action - oh no - he was an expert in criminal law and the same one that attended the police station with them when they were interviewed and them named arguidos. I am not sure who the other Portuguese lawyer is but when they had the 6 hour meeting in London with the two Portuguese lawyers and the two London ones I think the thinking would have been - we need the two Portuguese lawyers here because one was even present at the police station and so intimately knows the police case against them. Also the Portuguese lawyers would of course have input in relation to their detailed knowledge of Portuguese law which you could not expect UK lawyers to be so expert at. One of the London lawyers is an expert in preserving people's reputations when they are subject to intense media scrutiny - so it was always about what could be done for Kate and Gerry - not what can be done to find Madeleine. I believe what has happened is that after the rash spending in the early days that £100,000 has gone. It may sound a lot of money but in terms of legal costs would not last very long at all. Particularly when the London lawyers also visited the McCanns in PORTUGAL and then likewise they come here - money starts to run out really fast in expenses and hourly charge out rates of £700 per hour. We have heard a lot of the McCanns wanting to set up a separate fighting fund for their defence but - the public no longer want to give them any money! Plus the public are very concerned about what the find maddie fund is being spent on. So, it seems to me the McCanns can no longer afford to instruct the expensive London lawyers or perhaps retain the Portuguese lawyers. Instead we hear that Mr Smethurst is dealing with matters. This is just not good for the McCanns. I have checked Mr Smethurst on the Law Society web page and it will perhaps come as no surprise to hear that an in house solicitor for a double glazing magnate has no expertise or experience in criminal law at all. It is quite obviously an expert in criminal law that the McCanns need. If they were prosecuted in the UK they would be granted "Legal Aid". This is quite generous in criminal cases and they may still qualify. However, they cannot get legal aid unless and until they are actually charged in the UK. The thinking in their campaign has always been to rubbish the police case whilst they are being investigated so they never actually get charged. So they demand access to the police case against them. The law in UK and Portugal simply does not hand a suspect the police case against them. They are not allowed to see the police case until they are actually charged - of course they reason that will be too late to get them out of trouble. Well tough luck I say!

I hope this has answered some of the queries you had - if I can try and explain a little more please let me know.


Glad to have you on board
Viv x

yogaden102 said...

Hi Docmac

Thanks for the reply. I,m off to bed now but will check out Viv's reply tomorrow.

Its nice to finally talk to you.I have been following your posts for so long, it feels like I am talking to an old friend.

Thanks again

Yogaden

lmcg said...

Viv, that was an excellent reply to Yogaden's question.

Til tom xxx

yogaden102 said...

Hi Viv

Thanks, you have explained that very well and it makes a lot of sense now.

I was annoyed to hear recently that they are hiring an ex policeman to try and discredit the evidence that the PJ's have collected against them. How can they get away with using funds that were given to help find Maddy, to do this.It's beyond belief.

My husband thinks the same as you, and has said from day one that all was not as it seems with them. He has seen a lot more in life than I have.I have always tried to think the best of people and give them the benefit of the doubt, but feel like I have been duped by the McCanns.

I feel so strongly about this that I wrote to my MP a few weeks ago, regarding Gorden Brown's intervention. I had a reply today which says quote" The Prime Minister has asked me to arrange for a Minister in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to reply to you direct"

I will let you know when I get that reply.

Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed reply. It must be difficult having posts coming at you from all directions. I don,t know how you keep on top of it.

It's been nice talking to you. Now I know how easy it is, I'm sure I will be back on a regular basis.

Thanks again

Yogaden x

felicity said...

Hiya Yogaden

At least telling us about the policeman working on the case was more honest in stating clearly it was to try and discredit evidence against them. It is a waste of money - and other people's money to boot - not given for that purpose - it is inherently dishonest...as the McCanns and Ludicrous clearly are.

I look forward to hearing the reply you get from the Foreign Office!

I do not always keep on top of all the posts and emails I get but there are many on here who help out with the posts which I am very grateful for.

Good to hear from you again

Viv x

Anonymous said...

I found that legal post very interesting Viv. thank you.
dogrose.

felicity said...

Hiya Dogrose

Glad you found it helpful and interesting :-)

Viv x